The Corpsman on my US Navy frigate, early 1980s, was a cool guy. Before going on our deployment, I had to get about ten shots, as my shots from my prior service (USAF in late 1970s) had expired, and other new ones were needed, like Malaria vaccination. I always hated getting shots. But "Doc" had an excellent touch with the needle. I barely felt them. My arm did get sore from the vaccinations. He had offered to "do half now and half later", but I told him, "Best do 'em all now, I won't be back!" 😂
As a Marine (since 1967), I greatly respect Navy Corpsmen in general, and special respect for those who Volunteer to serve with Marines. I recently learned that at least 24 Corpsmen have been awarded the Medal Of Honor while serving with Marines. Much respect to them!
My father's best friend and my godfather was a surgeon drafted into the USN and stationed in Alaska during WW2. Sadly, he was developing retinitis pigmentosa, a condition which would eventually render him legally blind. At that time he could still see well in bright light, such as the OR. He was so loved and needed by all on the base that they strung up rope guidelines to all the places he needed to walk in the long Alaska darkness. The CO of the base would alert the medical staff when an inspection was going to happen and they would stage in pretend operation when the inspector was to meet him so as to hide his problem. He finished his service with honor and no mishaps, finishing his medical career in general practice until the vision loss necessitated retirement. I remember my Dad (also a family practitioner ) telling me how much his patients loved him and appreciated his care, despite the progressive disability. In my medical career I have known a deaf cardiologist who "heard" heart and breath sounds with his finger tips, an arthritis specialist crippled by spondylitis and a quadriplegic psychiatrist (a classmate of mine). It is amazing what motivated, dedicated people can accomplish.
As a retired submarine Corpsman, I can remember this story being referenced several times in school. Lipes had balls! Our training may be better now, but we would still avoid doing what he did. We have different protocols in place now that work just fine...thank goodness.😮 either way, Lipes is still a hero!
Lipes was reportedly treated rather poorly by the Navy for years after performing that surgery. But they did give him a medal for it several decades later.
'Different protocols' can't change anything. The human body isn't impressed by paperwork. An inflamed appendix invariably ruptures and that leads to peritonitis and certain death. Full stop.
@paulmaxwell8851 the current protocols involve targeted antibiotics that hold the infection at bay...even if the appendix were to burst. This gave the submarine time to get to definitive care. With the sub-par atmosphere onboard a sub, this type of surgery could make the problem worse. "Protocols" aren't just on paper. The paper tells us what and how to care for the problem.
I was an IC onboard the old boomers running out of Holy Lock. We had a RM have an appendicitis while we were on alert patrol up north. After our doc made the diagnosis the boat made a fast run toward the coast of Greenland where the RM was picked up by helovac and taken to a NATO base for treatment. Our doc (HM1/SS) kept him comfortable and stable for the day or so it took to get to the evac position. The docs on the boats still have a huge responsibility, and the rest of us on the boats appreciated having them there!
As a submariner, doc was the soul of the boat. Loved my docs. I remember I did get a ingrown toenail and he said d*mnit I hate feet laughed so hard. Yet, more he trained us constantly on first aid and triage and no one questioned his word... he is doc. Always loved.
Thank you for bringing light to Navy Pharmacist Mates. My Dad was a Pharmacist Mate during WWII. Dad really never talked much about his time in the Navy, he only told us about being stationed at Pearl Harbor Naval Hospital and being in the first occupation Marines into Mainland Japan. It was not till years after his death, my oldest brother went to Saint Louis and got a copy of Dad's service record. He emailed me a copy of Dad's record and wanted to know what I could tell from it. Dad enlisted 16 September 1941, for six years to be a Pharmacist Mate and was sent to San Diego for Boot Camp and his Pharmacist Mate school at Balboa. He reported to Balboa for his Pharmacist Mate school on 6 December 1941. Because of the attack the next day, upon completion of the Pharmacist Mate school, he was given orders to Naval Hospital Pearl Harbor, reporting there on 17 May 1942. He was at Naval Pearl Harbor till he was sent back to go to Fleet Corpsman school reporting to Balboa Naval Hospital on 3 May 1944. During his transit from Naval Hospital Pearl Harbor to San Diego he was able to take 24 days leave, the only leave he got during his six years in the Navy. Dad reported to the 3rd BN 8th Marines FMF on 26 December 1944 and was in the Battle of Okinawa. In notes we found where Mom had convinced Dad to dictate to her as she type about his life, after Okinawa dad was shipped to Siapan, the staging area for preparations to invade Japan. Because of Dad's enlistment went to September 1947, he was intergrated into the Marine Occupation troopes, landing in Japan in September 1945. Included in Dad's record was some letters from Camp Wood, in Kumamoto Japan. The letters discuss the treatment of Japanese civilians and the need to start Bible classes. It was so much Dad never told us. As a Sailor who spent three years active duty followed by 38 years 45 days in the Navy Reserve, the last 17 years in the Volunteer Training Unit (VTU) for no pay, just time and duty, I was shocked to learn what our Dad had done during his six years in the Navy.
I've known combat medics from WWII, Korea, and NAM. Many were forced to choose between attempting a medical procedure that they weren't trained for or to watch a man die. Some attempted and some did. In '74, I was drinking with a friend of a friend. We started sharing military stories and he revealed that he was a combat medic in NAM and had performed many field surgeries. Later, he showed me his souvenir box. There was bullets, shrapnel, miscellaneous stuff, and 5 silver stars. I was in awe. His 19 year old wife had been killed by a drunk driver and he had been trying to get himself killed by taking big risks. He graduated from college in hospital administration and wasn't going to accept any excuses from doctors who botched surgeries.
Thank you for this story. I too, serve the United States Navy for 24 years as a Submarine Independent Duty Corpsman. You are absolutely correct. The Navy training is tried and tested to be found true. We lived that often.
I grew up in Salt Lake City. For your future reference the word Deseret is pronounced with a hard "t". Dez-er-et. It's an ancient word used for the honey bee. Thanks for this story, so interesting and uplifting!
My father-in-law was a US Navy ship doctor on the USS Union in WWII and Korea A trained ophthalmologist, I asked him, an eye surgeon, what about wounds to the rest of the body? He said he carried several medical books and the ship had a few books and a Corpsman he served with had wide experience. They would prep the wound and check the books, sometimes one would read aloud and the other would proceed. Once just after he returned from a ship reunion (1980?) he told of one of the crew pulled up his shirt to show the scar and exclaimed that all was well! He said it was a serious injury and the sailor was transferred as soon as possible to a ship with better facilities, than to a hospital.
I saw a submarine surgery. Corpsman pumped a lot of lidocane into the guys big toe and cut out his whole toenail as to treat a horribly ingrown toenail. We couldnt come off station. He did on the mess deck. It wasnt precise or pretty, but it worked.
My dad was in the Navy in 1945. He was stationed on Kwajalein Island. He had a ruptured appendix and almost died. Of the event he didn't remember much. He remembered rough handling by two navy corpsman and a ride in a pitching whale boat. There was enough in the way of medical facilities to have him seen about but he was a sick puppy. He was summoned to the COs office. The CO said "the doctors said that you are to be placed on light duty. The problem with that is I don't have any light duty work. How would you like to go home?" To that he just said "yes sir."
Thank you, THG. My paternal gramps served in submarines from the 1930s to WW2. He was assigned mainly in S-class 'pig boats' and was a plank owner on the USS Redfin. Submariners were all volunteer and totally a breed apart.
Redfin was a Manitowoc boat! Manitowoc, WI is my mom's home town, and my gramps worked in that yard, maybe building Redfin. I don't think any of the 28 boats they made survived, but the USS Cobia sits just down stream from were they were built. You can tour it. Last I heard, at least one of the engines still run, and it has the oldest working surface radar in operation in the US. It's a great spot for a little vacation.
P.S. in 1970, the people of Manitowoc commissioned a Jim Beam decantor campaign to raise funds to bring the Redfin back to town. They didn't succeed, unfortunately, but, you can find the decanters in antique stores...
I recently met a guy who was a retired anesthetist. He had served in the USAF. He was at one remote unit and they had to do an unexpected surgery. They didn't have enough people to staff the OR. They used who they had. The guys passing the instruments were two Boy Scouts looking for a new merit badge.
I can identify with this. I used to periodically work on ships in some of the less savory parts of the world where medical care was sketchy. While at home I had 2 sub-acute appendicitis attacks, both of which prompted trips to the ER. On consultation with my GP, we elected to pre-emptively remove my appendix to avoid the possibilty of an acute attack while at sea.
Thank you for covering Independent Duty. My late father a Pharmacist Mate in 1930 on his way to Medical School in the Navy, only to have Congress (the opposite of progress) pull the funding. Electing not to follow family mules in tobacco fields, he qualified as a technician , in x-Ray, OR, Coroner, Dental, Orthopedics, Ophthalmology, Hematology, Laboratory, and passed the Pharmacopeia exam. He qualified for Independent Duty, serving as MO on the PC579, island of Saipan and at Camp Susupe , finishing a 30 yr career in 1960. Of note: As qualified for Independent duty, he reported not to the CO but to the Surgeon General; Deseret News is usually pronounced with the t being enunciated. Narragansett Bay
Having served in the submarine service in the early 1980’s aboard a US Los Angeles Class fast-attack boat I can tell you that things were much different, of course! Still, I have known, or know, many sailors who served on the boats you mentioned. Stories like this are things of legend. Submariners are a special breed for sure, we need to ‘think outside the box’ as they say, and creative solutions to problems saved many lives, and many crews.
@@navret1707 Cute. However, you raise an important point regarding the difference between concrete thinking skills, and imaginative thinking skills. I will refrain however from a snarky reply.
Wow, this episode cuts right to the heart of the matter. I wonder if THG can supply an appendix for those of us with questions so we can flesh it out a bit. Pretty gutsy topic.
I come from a family of (mostly) medical professionals, and I can see this both ways. On the one hand, it's reckless to encourage people without proper training to perform surgery. On the other hand, all those medical corps physicians should have been able to understand that all the world's best-trained doctors and most advanced medical equipment and pharmaceuticals are useless to a patient who has no chance of surviving long enough to get to them. Rather than acting territorial, what they should have done after the first emergency appendectomy performed on a submarine was recognize that medical emergencies are going to happen on vessels too small for a proper sickbay or even a doctor, and come up with better medical supply kits, training and protocols for performing operations so that the second on-submarine appendectomy could have been less risky. I imagine that's what happened eventually. Anyway, as always, great video.
Thank you for mentioning the 2 fantastic movies that portray these surgeries. I can not imagine the fortitude it took for the boat commanders and pharmacist mates to make those tough decisions. My grandpa served in the Navy during WW2, not aboard a sub but a Destroyer. They are truly the greatest generation. I miss my grandpa all the time. Lost him 2007, just shy of 81. I love all your episodes of WW2 history. Thank you.
In the Marine Corps we called the Corpsman "Doc". We had the utmost respect for them (even though they were Navy). I don't remember any appendectomies though.
@@garydean0308few things are as humbling as reading MoH citations to remind oneself there’s dudes out there with just absolutely massive brass warrior balls swangin’ when they walk.
One of the best doctors I ever had was an old Navy Doc who started out on fleet boats as a pharmacist mate, and my own uncle also served as one, with forever after being called “Doc” as his nickname. God rest them both.
As a retired Corpsman, I appreciate the coverage of your history especially that involving the Navy and most specially Hospital Corpsman. I remember the story told to us in Corps School, and you did an outstanding job. I don’t know if you have covered the history of the hospital Corpsman before but I think our history is great and unique. Oh, by the way, we are not medics, which every one thinks we are. We are more than medics. Corpsman up!
Dad was a Pharmcist Mate 3rd Class. This was a cover for some research he helped with. This rank is on his tombstone at Quantico. He was proud of his service.
The Silversides gives tours and you can camp aboard. My sons scout troop was touring the boat, and during the tour, we were sitting at the table in the ward room, basically a small table in a small room next to the captains quarters. The story was told about the surgery, and at the end of the story, the tour guide said it had been performed on this table. All of the scouts sat back and wouldn't touch the table. The adults all laughed at their reaction.
I slept on the battleship Massachusetts as a scout. I’m 48 now and I’ll never forget that memory and the things I learned on that scout trip. I’m glad they still do them.
Even to this day, most smaller ships (destroyers and such) still depend upon a Navy Corpsman for their health care. Larger ships such as cruisers might have a physician on board while underway. But daily Sick Call is routinely handled by Independent Duty Corpsmen (IDC). Much of my early personal health care was taken care of by these folks. (IDCs also provide healthcare for Marines in the field.) The Navy is unique in that it's healthcare providers are often without access to hospitals and such. For instance, my wife is a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist (CRNA). She was often the ONLY anesthesia provider for a Navy aircraft carrier task force at sea as well as being in that position in both Iraq and Djibouti. SHE was authorized to perform procedures without anesthesiologist oversight (as are all Navy CRNAs). Conversely, CRNAs in the Army and Air Force aren't even allowed to sign their patient's charts. Their supervising anesthesiologists do that. The unique circumstances of naval duties demand that the Navy provide the absolute highest level of training to their healthcare providers. And I am PERSONALLY glad that they do!!
Outstanding performance by the Doc! Whatever they are called by - Corpsman, Medic, etc - all who serve in the field are worth their weight in gold. For my part; the only reason I'm able to write this today is that an army "Doc" was able to save my life in the field some 3 decades ago. Had he not been there I'd certainly have shuffled off this mortal coil. It was a close thing anyway but he pulled it off. It's small wonder that all who are in service love their Doc.
In the '80s, sub Docs (Corpsmen) were typically E-6, 7, or 8 and we all treated them with great respect. There was always the possibility of being helicoptered off if things got too bad, but that was a last resort if we were on a deterrent patrol. Personal experience with kidney stones still haunt me, but we had a good CO and Doc, and I obviously survived. Kudos to Les for featuring "Docs" and to those who served on board who treated us.
Having served on subs I can tell you that a Navy Corpsman trained for independent duty aboard a sub were really good at their jobs. Most were career Navy and first class petty officers or higher. And while we would always tease them, when you're called Doc by a sailor or Marine that is a highly prestigious honor.
A wonderful presentation of literal field medicine for the silent service. How many unsung heroes served over those steely beasts and lost far beneath the waves. My dad was a sailor so I salute every Navy man especially combat veterans.❤ It is a tribute to those pharmacist mates to have done three successful surgeries under combat conditions.
On my boat, we had a Chief Corpman, that we called Doc. Now behind everyone's thought was a wish to never meet him on a professional level. It's ridiculous to think every boat have a surgeon on staff, we were all grateful to have him. He did the best he could cause like it or not we understood a ship of war and 100+ guys around that environment. Buddy had his fingers slam in the hinge side of a door, and for two weeks during recovery he was thankful also for anything to be done. Doesn't surprise me at all the brass would complain, but if you're not there, in that moment, your opinion is just that.
You have to experience gall bladder or appendix pain to understand what it is like. Easy for the desk bound REMF to “forbid” surgery, but courageous of the pharmacist mates to successfully perform it. No different than a medic or corpsman trying to save a life on the battlefield, or an EMT responding to a car crash today. You do what you have to do. Thanks for posting, and have a very happy new year.
One of the first fleet instructors I met during my nuclear power training did this in the sub fleet. He did receive a rare high level medal for performing an appendectomy on the boat's corpsman. This occurred on a top secret mission so calling for help was out of the question. The instructor quickly taught himself surgical techniques and did a superb job. The fact is nukes can do damn near everything.
A nuke did the procedure and not the IDC (independent duty corpsman)? Was he a volunteer EMT or paramedic in his free time? On my boats Doc would be the only one doing the procedure with assist from other crew members that were EMTs or paramedics at home. At one point there was an incentive for crew members to get continued education in EMT/paramedic that wouldn’t count against their tuition assistance.
"Run Silent, Run Deep" is one of my fav. books. Edward Beech also wrote a history, "Submarine", half about his own war time service, the rest about the Pacific Submarine campaign. Very readable and a good history.
I especially enjoyed this episode of THG. I could actually imagine myself there, feeling the fear, imagining the pain, and focusing to McGyver whatever was critically necessary to get the job done. Well done, in fact.
My grandfather was a Pharmacist's Mate during WW2. His time in Hawaii was interesting. He told me how for extra pay you could go volunteer to do search and rescue on PBY Catalinas on weekends. He did that a few times and actually got shot down a couple by the japanese. Ever since then he hated to fly.
Of the surgeries, a burst appendix was infinitely worse. All are absolutely amazing! Thanks so much for this content, or I'd have never known. Heck, i never even thought of a medical emergency like this!
My father almost died of one while in the Navy during WWII. He told them he had pain and they ignored him. It burst and he was so bad at points, they put him in a dark room to go to sleep and die.
As a retired submarine officer I am shocked that the pharmacist mates now Navy Corpsman did not get a medal for the surgery the CO could have awarded something regardless of what Bumed thinks
Wheeler Lipes was the hospital administrator at the Memorial Medical Center in Corpus Christi, TX. when I met him in 1980, shortly after I graduated from nursing school. He told me about the surgery and your version matches what I remember from telling of the event. He even mentioned how he had bartered for the ether prior to this patrol, never thinking he would actually need to use it. He thought he would use it to barter for something else. Thanks for telling this slice of history.
My father was the Pharmacist's Mate on USS Mount McKinley, an amphibious force flagship. His pre-service medical training consisted of two years' college training to be a pharmacist. Dad certainly knew how to patch us kids up when we incurred the usual childhood scrapes, cuts, bruises, and dog bites. He taught me to read the PDR - I still read the "dispensing physician" portion of the pharma insert before taking any medication. I had severe abdominal pains one summer weekend. I didn't have to have surgery (this being the era of effective antibiotics), but I wouldn't be surprised if Dad was recalling the stories you mentioned in this video. No; he wouldn't have told Mom to prepare the kitchen table as the OR. We were but a short drive to the Medical College of Virginia if an appendectomy had been warranted.
Having had appendicitis I can say that with the intense pain I would have allowed anyone to try to get it out. I had a106 degree temperature and almost died. I was in the hospital for a week before my temperature went down. It' s a shame these corpmen were scorned by the brass instead of given a medal. It was also an attack on the CO' s authority. A ships capt is the final authority on anything concerning his ship.
The skippers all approved the operation as risky but necessary, so the PMs were not doing something with no authority or without consulting the skipper.
As painful as I’m sure it was you were actually lucky, for if the pain goes away it means the appendix ruptured which is a life threatening condition that requires immediate surgery.
I had a similar experience with a ruptured appendix. Nearly died and spent several days in the hospital and nearly 2 weeks on antibiotics for the gangrene. I concur that I'd have let the janitor work on me if I was stuck in a sub. In each of the naval situations, the COs made the difficult decisions between the lesser of two high risk choices. Do nothing and there was a certainty that the man would die, or let the operation take place and there would be some small chance of survival.
They did what they had to do to save a fellow sailor. Good for the pharmacist mates. It wasn't easy on them. Don't get huffy about it but understand that circumstances are difficult 😢
There were other services that also had Independent Duty Medics and the Army Combat Medics that performed life saving measures for their Soldiers and Airmen in remote locations.
As always Lance, a great video! I am a US Navy Submarine Veteran and I watched 2 of my "Docs" stitch up lacerations, while I was on USS Jacksonville SSN-699. One was a Sonarman and one was a Machinist Mate.
Our “Doc” aboard the USCGC Planetree (WLB307) performed hand surgery on a fisherman many miles from any medical facility. A large, full-circle halibut hook was plunged deep into the right hand, grotesquely curving it from middle finger to palm. The extraction was a success and the patient was returned to the fishing vessel with strict orders to return to port in Juneau Alaska for proper medical care.
As now First Responder, I too was faced with add havoc situations with victims awaiting the EMT’s. As a result, I suffer from PTSD but would continue until today if I had not myself become an accident victim. But now still I hear the cry of these victims in need of help, help that can’t arrive until they are not able to receive where they happened upon death’s doorstep. Improvised methods flash into your mind as you deal with this ‘victims needs’ and that Golden Window of help is closing.. PTSD is a fair price to pay for saving a life. Now, at better than 70, I still hear the first alert call of these victims at night and hope they are doing better. Only one family looked me up 6 weeks after saving their son to tell me he was being released from the hospital that day. That made my day. As to the others, I can only hope their life has continued and returned to a somewhat normal way.
On a modern nuclear submarine, the officers wardroom still doubles as the operating room. When you look under the white tablecloth, you'll find a stainless steel operating table.
On my submarine, Robert E. Lee, SSBN-601, the wardroom table was built to be an operating table if needed. It even has surgical lighting in the overhead.
Great stories, mate. They almost even top the story of the Russian doctor who performed an appendectomy on himself while stationed in Antarctica in 1961...
I grew up in Memphis, and my 6th grade teacher was friends with Lydel Sims, a local writer for the Commercial Appeal. Mr. Sims came to our class a few times and talked about the books he wrote in cooperation with submariners from WWII. These were remarkable heroes to young kids like me in the '50s and '60s. I loved movies like "Run Silent Run Deep" and "Destination Tokyo".
We, in the Navy, made some jokes about corpsmen and their job, but in reality we had utmost respect for them and what they had to do. The Marines consider corpsmen fellow Marines in every sense. The casualty rate in WWII for corpsmen was extremely high. Completely exposed to enemy fire while tending wounded Marines made for dangerous work. My father-in-law was a corpsman with the Marines in Korea. He had a cigar box full of medals but never spoke a word about it. Many years ago he took my future wife and me to the Marines Memorial Hotel in San Francisco for dinner. We were treated very well indeed.
“I guess they were afraid that because I had performed an appendectomy, everyone in the Fleet would be running around looking for the first opportunity to do one.” Wonderful story. 👏👏
I've visited Silversides in Muskegon, MI and during the tour the of the mess table, the appendectomy was mentioned along with the sleeping torpedoes which wouldn't explode when hitting their target. Thank you again for the well-researched presentations.
I recall a story very similar to the first description (including the bent spoons for re tractors and using torpedo juice as a sterilizer) back in high school, more then 35 years ago.
“We performed emergency surgery and saved this man’s life!” “Yeah but rules forbid emergency surgery even to save a man’s life. Be thankful we didn’t cashier you out.”
Back in the early ‘70s, my impacted wisdom tooth erupted while serving in the USAF; and the tooth was removed by a USAF dentist. I complained to my dad about what I thought was bad dental surgery. My dad who was a US Army WW2 veteran told me that I should be grateful that I had a dentist. When his wisdom tooth had to be removed, there was no dentist and no medical evacuation. Instead, a US Navy Corpsman from a nearby USMC unit removed his wisdom tooth using a hammer and chisel to shatter the tooth; and remove it with pliers. He said his mouth was so sore that he couldn’t eat for months and was skin and bones.
Starting my second hitch, having changed from the USAF to the Navy, I had to attend a 2 week indoctrination course to learn "the Navy Way". We OSVETs ,(Other Service Veterans) did this at Great Lakes Navy Base on Recruit Side. I hadn't gotten my wisdom teeth out yet, though the USAF had wanted me to. Now, being a Sub Volunteer (but flunked out later and went surface fleet) I was told I get them out NOW or I can't go to Main Side for school. So I did. Oh buddy, was that a harrowing experience! First three popped right out, the last one dug in. The roots were wrapped around the jaw bone. The Dental Tech ( an E5, not a rated dentist) had to use pliers and what looked like diagonal cutters, and a prybar. Not kidding. He got it out in three pieces. The last part the novacaine had worn off, so he had shot me up with a double dose. It kicked in when the tooth was out. Leaving, with a bunch of cotton in my mouth, I found a ticket on my car. Some MAA had not seen the base sticker on my front bumper! So I go to the MAA office, and am trying, with a heavily numbed mouth (actually the whole side of my head was numb!) to explain, while drooling blood on his desk, to the Chief MAA why I shouldn't have the ticket. He yelled, "Just get out and stop bleeding on my desk!" He tore the ticket up. 😅 They graciously gave me the rest of the day off.
Even in a calm civvie dental office, you may have to destroy a tooth to get it out. I had one that they had to saw in half, and break one half off of its root, because of how it was wedged in by its neighbors. I guess I'm lucky the Novocaine held out to the end!
I have nothing but the ultimate respect for anyone who served in the "Silent Service". I did my 4 years in Uncle Sam's flying circus while the peanut man was in office, but I could never have stood the confinement due to claustrophobia. PS, 22 veterans commit suicide each day, may they rest in peace.
The USS Silversides floats today at the Silversides Museum in Muskegon, MI. Tours of the boat and the museum available daily throughout the year (though summer is a lot nicer in Muskegon). You can read about the surgery and see artifacts and photos from the event. The Silversides is the most successful US submarine of WWII that is still afloat. And she was the first submarine commissioned in the US Navy of WWII, having been commissioned only four days after the Pearl Harbor attack.
Good Wednesday morning History Guy and everyone watching...😊 Destination Tokyo is one of my favorite movies...Bravo Zulu shipmates. OS1(SW/AW) USN Retired
I'm reminded of the case of the (female) physician who was over-wintering at the South Pole, when she diagnosed herself with breast cancer. There was no way to get her out. Using air-dropped medical supplies, she managed to treat herself. Eventually, as soon as was physically possible, a plane was sent in to retrieve her. She recovered but eventually succumbed to a re-occurrence. Jerri Nielson! I just looked her up. There's a tale for you, History Guy!
Merry Christmas HG! Sorry to be late with it, I’m glad you’re back I missed you! So many things we take for granted today were once considered miracles. In my mind, they still are I learned how to perform an appendectomy from the Colliers encyclopedia. Thank goodness I never had to do it, but I knew how if I had to. I did the same thing to learn how to deliver a baby in an emergency. That I could do. Thank you again for your great series.
And to think today, small operations and dental care can be given inside submarines as part of the accommodations for the personnel. Mad respect to all submariners; It's the only service in which I know I didn't have what it takes to be one.
You know that disclaimer you see on commercials sometimes? "WARNING: These are trained professionals! Do NOT try this yourself at home!" In this case it would have to have added "That is, UNLESS you're in a situation where not doing it would be a hell of a lot worse..."
Doing research last night for building a plastic submarine kit, I read the exact passage you referenced in "U-Boot Combat Missions". ESP strikes again!
We had a guy with an appendicitis while on patrol once (back in the 1980s). The closest thing to us was a surface ship with a helo onboard. But we were out of range of the helo. We ran towards the surface ship at high speed and the surface ship ran towards us at high speed Doc (our hosital corpsman) got the wardroom table ready as an operating room and then we waited. Fortunately, we got within range of the helo and did a personnel transfer. They got him to Australia and a few days later when we pulled in our shipmate was fine - minus his appendix. I'm glad that the navy got him to a hospital. But, I also have no doubt Doc could have done the job. He was one damn fine hospital corpsman.
In the field, land or sea, you do what you have to do. The dedication of those pharmacist mates deserves to be remembered.
Wow! Good One!
The Corpsman on my US Navy frigate, early 1980s, was a cool guy. Before going on our deployment, I had to get about ten shots, as my shots from my prior service (USAF in late 1970s) had expired, and other new ones were needed, like Malaria vaccination. I always hated getting shots. But "Doc" had an excellent touch with the needle. I barely felt them. My arm did get sore from the vaccinations. He had offered to "do half now and half later", but I told him, "Best do 'em all now, I won't be back!" 😂
As a Marine (since 1967), I greatly respect Navy Corpsmen in general, and special respect for those who Volunteer to serve with Marines.
I recently learned that at least 24 Corpsmen have been awarded the Medal Of Honor while serving with Marines. Much respect to them!
My father's best friend and my godfather was a surgeon drafted into the USN and stationed in Alaska during WW2. Sadly, he was developing retinitis pigmentosa, a condition which would eventually render him legally blind. At that time he could still see well in bright light, such as the OR. He was so loved and needed by all on the base that they strung up rope guidelines to all the places he needed to walk in the long Alaska darkness. The CO of the base would alert the medical staff when an inspection was going to happen and they would stage in pretend operation when the inspector was to meet him so as to hide his problem. He finished his service with honor and no mishaps, finishing his medical career in general practice until the vision loss necessitated retirement. I remember my Dad (also a family practitioner ) telling me how much his patients loved him and appreciated his care, despite the progressive disability. In my medical career I have known a deaf cardiologist who "heard" heart and breath sounds with his finger tips, an arthritis specialist crippled by spondylitis and a quadriplegic psychiatrist (a classmate of mine). It is amazing what motivated, dedicated people can accomplish.
As a retired submarine Corpsman, I can remember this story being referenced several times in school. Lipes had balls! Our training may be better now, but we would still avoid doing what he did. We have different protocols in place now that work just fine...thank goodness.😮 either way, Lipes is still a hero!
Lipes was reportedly treated rather poorly by the Navy for years after performing that surgery. But they did give him a medal for it several decades later.
'Different protocols' can't change anything. The human body isn't impressed by paperwork. An inflamed appendix invariably ruptures and that leads to peritonitis and certain death. Full stop.
@paulmaxwell8851 the current protocols involve targeted antibiotics that hold the infection at bay...even if the appendix were to burst. This gave the submarine time to get to definitive care. With the sub-par atmosphere onboard a sub, this type of surgery could make the problem worse. "Protocols" aren't just on paper. The paper tells us what and how to care for the problem.
I was an IC onboard the old boomers running out of Holy Lock. We had a RM have an appendicitis while we were on alert patrol up north. After our doc made the diagnosis the boat made a fast run toward the coast of Greenland where the RM was picked up by helovac and taken to a NATO base for treatment. Our doc (HM1/SS) kept him comfortable and stable for the day or so it took to get to the evac position. The docs on the boats still have a huge responsibility, and the rest of us on the boats appreciated having them there!
As a submariner, doc was the soul of the boat. Loved my docs. I remember I did get a ingrown toenail and he said d*mnit I hate feet laughed so hard. Yet, more he trained us constantly on first aid and triage and no one questioned his word... he is doc. Always loved.
Thank you for bringing light to Navy Pharmacist Mates. My Dad was a Pharmacist Mate during WWII. Dad really never talked much about his time in the Navy, he only told us about being stationed at Pearl Harbor Naval Hospital and being in the first occupation Marines into Mainland Japan. It was not till years after his death, my oldest brother went to Saint Louis and got a copy of Dad's service record. He emailed me a copy of Dad's record and wanted to know what I could tell from it. Dad enlisted 16 September 1941, for six years to be a Pharmacist Mate and was sent to San Diego for Boot Camp and his Pharmacist Mate school at Balboa. He reported to Balboa for his Pharmacist Mate school on 6 December 1941. Because of the attack the next day, upon completion of the Pharmacist Mate school, he was given orders to Naval Hospital Pearl Harbor, reporting there on 17 May 1942. He was at Naval Pearl Harbor till he was sent back to go to Fleet Corpsman school reporting to Balboa Naval Hospital on 3 May 1944. During his transit from Naval Hospital Pearl Harbor to San Diego he was able to take 24 days leave, the only leave he got during his six years in the Navy. Dad reported to the 3rd BN 8th Marines FMF on 26 December 1944 and was in the Battle of Okinawa. In notes we found where Mom had convinced Dad to dictate to her as she type about his life, after Okinawa dad was shipped to Siapan, the staging area for preparations to invade Japan. Because of Dad's enlistment went to September 1947, he was intergrated into the Marine Occupation troopes, landing in Japan in September 1945.
Included in Dad's record was some letters from Camp Wood, in Kumamoto Japan. The letters discuss the treatment of Japanese civilians and the need to start Bible classes. It was so much Dad never told us. As a Sailor who spent three years active duty followed by 38 years 45 days in the Navy Reserve, the last 17 years in the Volunteer Training Unit (VTU) for no pay, just time and duty, I was shocked to learn what our Dad had done during his six years in the Navy.
I've known combat medics from WWII, Korea, and NAM. Many were forced to choose between attempting a medical procedure that they weren't trained for or to watch a man die. Some attempted and some did. In '74, I was drinking with a friend of a friend. We started sharing military stories and he revealed that he was a combat medic in NAM and had performed many field surgeries. Later, he showed me his souvenir box. There was bullets, shrapnel, miscellaneous stuff, and 5 silver stars. I was in awe. His 19 year old wife had been killed by a drunk driver and he had been trying to get himself killed by taking big risks. He graduated from college in hospital administration and wasn't going to accept any excuses from doctors who botched surgeries.
Thank you for this story. I too, serve the United States Navy for 24 years as a Submarine Independent Duty Corpsman. You are absolutely correct. The Navy training is tried and tested to be found true. We lived that often.
Hey, Rick!
Hi Doc Andrew Jackson SSBN 619Gold did you know Doc wood
I grew up in Salt Lake City. For your future reference the word Deseret is pronounced with a hard "t". Dez-er-et. It's an ancient word used for the honey bee.
Thanks for this story, so interesting and uplifting!
My father-in-law was a US Navy ship doctor on the USS Union in WWII and Korea
A trained ophthalmologist, I asked him, an eye surgeon, what about wounds to the rest of the body?
He said he carried several medical books and the ship had a few books and a Corpsman he served with had wide experience.
They would prep the wound and check the books, sometimes one would read aloud and the other would proceed.
Once just after he returned from a ship reunion (1980?) he told of one of the crew pulled up his shirt to show the scar and exclaimed that all was well!
He said it was a serious injury and the sailor was transferred as soon as possible to a ship with better facilities, than to a hospital.
History of self surgery by Russian doc at Antarctica station is also unique and deserve to be rememberd
Hearing this brought that one back to mind, used a mirror so he could see what he was doing IIRC.
@@IMBlakeleyreminds me of Mr Bean doing his own teeth fillings - hilarious if you haven’t seen it
I saw a submarine surgery. Corpsman pumped a lot of lidocane into the guys big toe and cut out his whole toenail as to treat a horribly ingrown toenail. We couldnt come off station. He did on the mess deck. It wasnt precise or pretty, but it worked.
My dad was in the Navy in 1945. He was stationed on Kwajalein Island. He had a ruptured appendix and almost died. Of the event he didn't remember much. He remembered rough handling by two navy corpsman and a ride in a pitching whale boat. There was enough in the way of medical facilities to have him seen about but he was a sick puppy. He was summoned to the COs office. The CO said "the doctors said that you are to be placed on light duty. The problem with that is I don't have any light duty work. How would you like to go home?" To that he just said "yes sir."
Thank you, THG. My paternal gramps served in submarines from the 1930s to WW2. He was assigned mainly in S-class 'pig boats' and was a plank owner on the USS Redfin. Submariners were all volunteer and totally a breed apart.
Redfin was a Manitowoc boat! Manitowoc, WI is my mom's home town, and my gramps worked in that yard, maybe building Redfin. I don't think any of the 28 boats they made survived, but the USS Cobia sits just down stream from were they were built. You can tour it. Last I heard, at least one of the engines still run, and it has the oldest working surface radar in operation in the US. It's a great spot for a little vacation.
P.S. in 1970, the people of Manitowoc commissioned a Jim Beam decantor campaign to raise funds to bring the Redfin back to town. They didn't succeed, unfortunately, but, you can find the decanters in antique stores...
We still are all volunteers and always will be…
I recently met a guy who was a retired anesthetist. He had served in the USAF. He was at one remote unit and they had to do an unexpected surgery. They didn't have enough people to staff the OR. They used who they had. The guys passing the instruments were two Boy Scouts looking for a new merit badge.
I can identify with this. I used to periodically work on ships in some of the less savory parts of the world where medical care was sketchy. While at home I had 2 sub-acute appendicitis attacks, both of which prompted trips to the ER. On consultation with my GP, we elected to pre-emptively remove my appendix to avoid the possibilty of an acute attack while at sea.
Thank you for covering Independent Duty. My late father a Pharmacist Mate in 1930 on his way to Medical School in the Navy, only to have Congress (the opposite of progress) pull the funding. Electing not to follow family mules in tobacco fields, he qualified as a technician , in x-Ray, OR, Coroner, Dental, Orthopedics, Ophthalmology, Hematology, Laboratory, and passed the Pharmacopeia exam. He qualified for Independent Duty, serving as MO on the PC579, island of Saipan and at Camp Susupe , finishing a 30 yr career in 1960. Of note: As qualified for Independent duty, he reported not to the CO but to the Surgeon General; Deseret News is usually pronounced with the t being enunciated. Narragansett Bay
Silversides is still around, a museum in Muskegon MI. Great history! Thanks for sharing.
I’ve been there! Definitely worth a visit.
A shipmate of mine was from there, and refered to it as "Mosquito, Missed Again"! 😊
I have been there too! The smell of diesel gave me a raging headache. But the whole museum is great!
It is the most decorated surviving sub from WWII. (The most decorated , USS Thrasher, was sunk in the Bikini Atoll Atomic Test.)
Having served in the submarine service in the early 1980’s aboard a US Los Angeles Class fast-attack boat I can tell you that things were much different, of course! Still, I have known, or know, many sailors who served on the boats you mentioned. Stories like this are things of legend. Submariners are a special breed for sure, we need to ‘think outside the box’ as they say, and creative solutions to problems saved many lives, and many crews.
If you think you’re “outside the box” in a sub you better be able to tread water. 🥴 🤣
@@navret1707
Cute. However, you raise an important point regarding the difference between concrete thinking skills, and imaginative thinking skills. I will refrain however from a snarky reply.
Submarines once
@@chrisbrodhagen3658
Yes, all surface ships have the opportunity to be submarines…just once.
@@chrisbrodhagen3658 Submarines twice...
Wow, this episode cuts right to the heart of the matter. I wonder if THG can supply an appendix for those of us with questions so we can flesh it out a bit. Pretty gutsy topic.
Dont hurt yourself ..
@@JeffreyGlover65 Admit it, I had you in stitches!
I come from a family of (mostly) medical professionals, and I can see this both ways. On the one hand, it's reckless to encourage people without proper training to perform surgery. On the other hand, all those medical corps physicians should have been able to understand that all the world's best-trained doctors and most advanced medical equipment and pharmaceuticals are useless to a patient who has no chance of surviving long enough to get to them. Rather than acting territorial, what they should have done after the first emergency appendectomy performed on a submarine was recognize that medical emergencies are going to happen on vessels too small for a proper sickbay or even a doctor, and come up with better medical supply kits, training and protocols for performing operations so that the second on-submarine appendectomy could have been less risky. I imagine that's what happened eventually. Anyway, as always, great video.
Thank you for mentioning the 2 fantastic movies that portray these surgeries. I can not imagine the fortitude it took for the boat commanders and pharmacist mates to make those tough decisions. My grandpa served in the Navy during WW2, not aboard a sub but a Destroyer. They are truly the greatest generation. I miss my grandpa all the time. Lost him 2007, just shy of 81. I love all your episodes of WW2 history. Thank you.
In the Marine Corps we called the Corpsman "Doc". We had the utmost respect for them (even though they were Navy). I don't remember any appendectomies though.
Same with our medics in the army.
@@korbell1089 From my hometown: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Michael_Kays
Same on Navy ships. Our Corpsman was called "Doc". 😎👍
Same, with my ex. Chick was a freak and called me Doc because she liked to role play doctor/nurse scenarios.
@@garydean0308few things are as humbling as reading MoH citations to remind oneself there’s dudes out there with just absolutely massive brass warrior balls swangin’ when they walk.
One of the best doctors I ever had was an old Navy Doc who started out on fleet boats as a pharmacist mate, and my own uncle also served as one, with forever after being called “Doc” as his nickname. God rest them both.
As a retired Corpsman, I appreciate the coverage of your history especially that involving the Navy and most specially Hospital Corpsman. I remember the story told to us in Corps School, and you did an outstanding job. I don’t know if you have covered the history of the hospital Corpsman before but I think our history is great and unique. Oh, by the way, we are not medics, which every one thinks we are. We are more than medics. Corpsman up!
Dad was a Pharmcist Mate 3rd Class. This was a cover for some research he helped with. This rank is on his tombstone at Quantico. He was proud of his service.
The Silversides gives tours and you can camp aboard. My sons scout troop was touring the boat, and during the tour, we were sitting at the table in the ward room, basically a small table in a small room next to the captains quarters. The story was told about the surgery, and at the end of the story, the tour guide said it had been performed on this table. All of the scouts sat back and wouldn't touch the table. The adults all laughed at their reaction.
I slept on the battleship Massachusetts as a scout. I’m 48 now and I’ll never forget that memory and the things I learned on that scout trip. I’m glad they still do them.
Even to this day, most smaller ships (destroyers and such) still depend upon a Navy Corpsman for their health care. Larger ships such as cruisers might have a physician on board while underway. But daily Sick Call is routinely handled by Independent Duty Corpsmen (IDC). Much of my early personal health care was taken care of by these folks. (IDCs also provide healthcare for Marines in the field.) The Navy is unique in that it's healthcare providers are often without access to hospitals and such. For instance, my wife is a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist (CRNA). She was often the ONLY anesthesia provider for a Navy aircraft carrier task force at sea as well as being in that position in both Iraq and Djibouti. SHE was authorized to perform procedures without anesthesiologist oversight (as are all Navy CRNAs). Conversely, CRNAs in the Army and Air Force aren't even allowed to sign their patient's charts. Their supervising anesthesiologists do that. The unique circumstances of naval duties demand that the Navy provide the absolute highest level of training to their healthcare providers. And I am PERSONALLY glad that they do!!
Outstanding performance by the Doc! Whatever they are called by - Corpsman, Medic, etc - all who serve in the field are worth their weight in gold. For my part; the only reason I'm able to write this today is that an army "Doc" was able to save my life in the field some 3 decades ago. Had he not been there I'd certainly have shuffled off this mortal coil. It was a close thing anyway but he pulled it off.
It's small wonder that all who are in service love their Doc.
In the '80s, sub Docs (Corpsmen) were typically E-6, 7, or 8 and we all treated them with great respect. There was always the possibility of being helicoptered off if things got too bad, but that was a last resort if we were on a deterrent patrol. Personal experience with kidney stones still haunt me, but we had a good CO and Doc, and I obviously survived. Kudos to Les for featuring "Docs" and to those who served on board who treated us.
As a retired Coast Guard HS thanks for highlighting our training and our commitment to the health and well being of our shipmates.
Live in Muskegon Michigan, our Harbor is the current home of the USS Silver Sides.🎉
Having served on subs I can tell you that a Navy Corpsman trained for independent duty aboard a sub were really good at their jobs. Most were career Navy and first class petty officers or higher. And while we would always tease them, when you're called Doc by a sailor or Marine that is a highly prestigious honor.
A wonderful presentation of literal field medicine for the silent service. How many unsung heroes served over those steely beasts and lost far beneath the waves. My dad was a sailor so I salute every Navy man especially combat veterans.❤
It is a tribute to those pharmacist mates to have done three successful surgeries under combat conditions.
On my boat, we had a Chief Corpman, that we called Doc. Now behind everyone's thought was a wish to never meet him on a professional level. It's ridiculous to think every boat have a surgeon on staff, we were all grateful to have him. He did the best he could cause like it or not we understood a ship of war and 100+ guys around that environment. Buddy had his fingers slam in the hinge side of a door, and for two weeks during recovery he was thankful also for anything to be done. Doesn't surprise me at all the brass would complain, but if you're not there, in that moment, your opinion is just that.
Just goes to show the training and the BALLS of the U.S. Navy sailor enlisted man... Your one Hell of a host/narrator...great job..
You have to experience gall bladder or appendix pain to understand what it is like. Easy for the desk bound REMF to “forbid” surgery, but courageous of the pharmacist mates to successfully perform it. No different than a medic or corpsman trying to save a life on the battlefield, or an EMT responding to a car crash today. You do what you have to do. Thanks for posting, and have a very happy new year.
One of the first fleet instructors I met during my nuclear power training did this in the sub fleet. He did receive a rare high level medal for performing an appendectomy on the boat's corpsman. This occurred on a top secret mission so calling for help was out of the question.
The instructor quickly taught himself surgical techniques and did a superb job. The fact is nukes can do damn near everything.
A nuke did the procedure and not the IDC (independent duty corpsman)? Was he a volunteer EMT or paramedic in his free time? On my boats Doc would be the only one doing the procedure with assist from other crew members that were EMTs or paramedics at home. At one point there was an incentive for crew members to get continued education in EMT/paramedic that wouldn’t count against their tuition assistance.
"Run Silent, Run Deep" is one of my fav. books. Edward Beech also wrote a history, "Submarine", half about his own war time service, the rest about the Pacific Submarine campaign. Very readable and a good history.
Movie was great as well.
It was based on two books, "Run Silent ..." and "Dust on the sea". As shadow of the books.@@kevspss
The man should've been decorated for saving the 19 y.o.'s life instead of being vilified !
He should have been awarded the Bronze Star or something.
Agreed.
But, when does the military do anything that makes sense?
I especially enjoyed this episode of THG. I could actually imagine myself there, feeling the fear, imagining the pain, and focusing to McGyver whatever was critically necessary to get the job done. Well done, in fact.
My grandfather was a Pharmacist's Mate during WW2. His time in Hawaii was interesting. He told me how for extra pay you could go volunteer to do search and rescue on PBY Catalinas on weekends. He did that a few times and actually got shot down a couple by the japanese. Ever since then he hated to fly.
Excellent video on a little talked about topic!
Marines have always held Corpsmen in high regard.
Semper Fi Devil Docs!
🫡❤️🇺🇸
Of the surgeries, a burst appendix was infinitely worse.
All are absolutely amazing! Thanks so much for this content, or I'd have never known. Heck, i never even thought of a medical emergency like this!
My father almost died of one while in the Navy during WWII. He told them he had pain and they ignored him. It burst and he was so bad at points, they put him in a dark room to go to sleep and die.
As a retired submarine officer I am shocked that the pharmacist mates now Navy Corpsman did not get a medal for the surgery the CO could have awarded something regardless of what Bumed thinks
USS Silversides is now a museum ship in Muskegon, Michigan.
Wheeler Lipes was the hospital administrator at the Memorial Medical Center in Corpus Christi, TX. when I met him in 1980, shortly after I graduated from nursing school. He told me about the surgery and your version matches what I remember from telling of the event. He even mentioned how he had bartered for the ether prior to this patrol, never thinking he would actually need to use it. He thought he would use it to barter for something else. Thanks for telling this slice of history.
My father was the Pharmacist's Mate on USS Mount McKinley, an amphibious force flagship. His pre-service medical training consisted of two years' college training to be a pharmacist. Dad certainly knew how to patch us kids up when we incurred the usual childhood scrapes, cuts, bruises, and dog bites. He taught me to read the PDR - I still read the "dispensing physician" portion of the pharma insert before taking any medication. I had severe abdominal pains one summer weekend. I didn't have to have surgery (this being the era of effective antibiotics), but I wouldn't be surprised if Dad was recalling the stories you mentioned in this video. No; he wouldn't have told Mom to prepare the kitchen table as the OR. We were but a short drive to the Medical College of Virginia if an appendectomy had been warranted.
Having had appendicitis I can say that with the intense pain I would have allowed anyone to try to get it out. I had a106 degree temperature and almost died. I was in the hospital for a week before my temperature went down. It' s a shame these corpmen were scorned by the brass instead of given a medal. It was also an attack on the CO' s authority. A ships capt is the final authority on anything concerning his ship.
The skippers all approved the operation as risky but necessary, so the PMs were not doing something with no authority or without consulting the skipper.
@@washingtonradio"I was following a direct order" is still a pretty good defense in the military.
As painful as I’m sure it was you were actually lucky, for if the pain goes away it means the appendix ruptured which is a life threatening condition that requires immediate surgery.
I had a similar experience with a ruptured appendix. Nearly died and spent several days in the hospital and nearly 2 weeks on antibiotics for the gangrene. I concur that I'd have let the janitor work on me if I was stuck in a sub.
In each of the naval situations, the COs made the difficult decisions between the lesser of two high risk choices. Do nothing and there was a certainty that the man would die, or let the operation take place and there would be some small chance of survival.
They are an argument AGAINST bureaucrats and bureaucracy. Always vote to SHRINK your government, NEVER to expand it!
They did what they had to do to save a fellow sailor. Good for the pharmacist mates. It wasn't easy on them. Don't get huffy about it but understand that circumstances are difficult 😢
In the military, during emergent situations, people do things that aren't allowed in stateside facilities to save lives.
Thanks HG. American Exceptionalism at its FINEST! I am Veteran of the Army. In all branches We do what has to be done and We Rock Steady until is.
There were other services that also had Independent Duty Medics and the Army Combat Medics that performed life saving measures for their Soldiers and Airmen in remote locations.
As always Lance, a great video! I am a US Navy Submarine Veteran and I watched 2 of my "Docs" stitch up lacerations, while I was on USS Jacksonville SSN-699. One was a Sonarman and one was a Machinist Mate.
Our “Doc” aboard the USCGC Planetree (WLB307) performed hand surgery on a fisherman many miles from any medical facility. A large, full-circle halibut hook was plunged deep into the right hand, grotesquely curving it from middle finger to palm.
The extraction was a success and the patient was returned to the fishing vessel with strict orders to return to port in Juneau Alaska for proper medical care.
Anesthesia? Just lidocaine and true grit.
As now First Responder, I too was faced with add havoc situations with victims awaiting the EMT’s.
As a result, I suffer from PTSD but would continue until today if I had not myself become an accident victim.
But now still I hear the cry of these victims in need of help, help that can’t arrive until they are not able to receive where they happened upon death’s doorstep.
Improvised methods flash into your mind as you deal with this ‘victims needs’ and that Golden Window of help is closing..
PTSD is a fair price to pay for saving a life.
Now, at better than 70, I still hear the first alert call of these victims at night and hope they are doing better. Only one family looked me up 6 weeks after saving their son to tell me he was being released from the hospital that day. That made my day. As to the others, I can only hope their life has continued and returned to a somewhat normal way.
There was a scene in an old movie about sub surgery, but can't remember the name of the film....oh wait, you got it. Thanks, Lance.
Great episode!
I was a Hospital Corman in the Navy in the ‘60s.😊
Love this, thank you! My Grandfather, Irvin Obermeyer, was a radioman on the USS Saury, good to know he might have been exoected to be a "doc" too!!
On a modern nuclear submarine, the officers wardroom still doubles as the operating room. When you look under the white tablecloth, you'll find a stainless steel operating table.
My ex was on staff at Wm. F. Bowld Hospital in Memphis where he was chief administrator for many years. Amazing story!
On my submarine, Robert E. Lee, SSBN-601, the wardroom table was built to be an operating table if needed. It even has surgical lighting in the overhead.
Doing what's needed, when it's needed is what makes "Doc" an essential member of any sub crew or Marine company.
Great stories, mate. They almost even top the story of the Russian doctor who performed an appendectomy on himself while stationed in Antarctica in 1961...
I grew up in Memphis, and my 6th grade teacher was friends with Lydel Sims, a local writer for the Commercial Appeal. Mr. Sims came to our class a few times and talked about the books he wrote in cooperation with submariners from WWII. These were remarkable heroes to young kids like me in the '50s and '60s. I loved movies like "Run Silent Run Deep" and "Destination Tokyo".
We, in the Navy, made some jokes about corpsmen and their job, but in reality we had utmost respect for them and what they had to do. The Marines consider corpsmen fellow Marines in every sense. The casualty rate in WWII for corpsmen was extremely high. Completely exposed to enemy fire while tending wounded Marines made for dangerous work. My father-in-law was a corpsman with the Marines in Korea. He had a cigar box full of medals but never spoke a word about it. Many years ago he took my future wife and me to the Marines Memorial Hotel in San Francisco for dinner. We were treated very well indeed.
The Silent Service TV series did an episode about one of those surgeries.
There’s a lot of things we do in an emergency. You do the best you can
“I guess they were afraid that because I had performed an appendectomy, everyone in the Fleet would be running around looking for the first opportunity to do one.” Wonderful story. 👏👏
I've visited Silversides in Muskegon, MI and during the tour the of the mess table, the appendectomy was mentioned along with the sleeping torpedoes which wouldn't explode when hitting their target. Thank you again for the well-researched presentations.
A hospital corpsman USN appreciates this one 👍
I recall a story very similar to the first description (including the bent spoons for re tractors and using torpedo juice as a sterilizer) back in high school, more then 35 years ago.
My appendix ruptured a few years ago and the pain is unexplainably bad so I can’t imagine going through it on a submarine. It’s so bad.
USS Silversides is now a museum and open to the public for tours in Muskegon, MI now. I grew up there and never knew this story! Very cool
This is an epic story. Thank you History Guy.
I am a Marine, and my respect for Corpsmen is immense. In Viet Nam, they were ALWAYS referred to as DOC!
I remember reading this story when I was in middle school, way back in the 80’s. Such a cool and uplifting story.
“We performed emergency surgery and saved this man’s life!”
“Yeah but rules forbid emergency surgery even to save a man’s life. Be thankful we didn’t cashier you out.”
Back in the Saddle Again Naturally!
Back in the early ‘70s, my impacted wisdom tooth erupted while serving in the USAF; and the tooth was removed by a USAF dentist. I complained to my dad about what I thought was bad dental surgery. My dad who was a US Army WW2 veteran told me that I should be grateful that I had a dentist. When his wisdom tooth had to be removed, there was no dentist and no medical evacuation. Instead, a US Navy Corpsman from a nearby USMC unit removed his wisdom tooth using a hammer and chisel to shatter the tooth; and remove it with pliers. He said his mouth was so sore that he couldn’t eat for months and was skin and bones.
Starting my second hitch, having changed from the USAF to the Navy, I had to attend a 2 week indoctrination course to learn "the Navy Way". We OSVETs ,(Other Service Veterans) did this at Great Lakes Navy Base on Recruit Side. I hadn't gotten my wisdom teeth out yet, though the USAF had wanted me to. Now, being a Sub Volunteer (but flunked out later and went surface fleet) I was told I get them out NOW or I can't go to Main Side for school. So I did. Oh buddy, was that a harrowing experience! First three popped right out, the last one dug in. The roots were wrapped around the jaw bone. The Dental Tech ( an E5, not a rated dentist) had to use pliers and what looked like diagonal cutters, and a prybar. Not kidding. He got it out in three pieces. The last part the novacaine had worn off, so he had shot me up with a double dose. It kicked in when the tooth was out. Leaving, with a bunch of cotton in my mouth, I found a ticket on my car. Some MAA had not seen the base sticker on my front bumper! So I go to the MAA office, and am trying, with a heavily numbed mouth (actually the whole side of my head was numb!) to explain, while drooling blood on his desk, to the Chief MAA why I shouldn't have the ticket. He yelled, "Just get out and stop bleeding on my desk!" He tore the ticket up. 😅
They graciously gave me the rest of the day off.
Even in a calm civvie dental office, you may have to destroy a tooth to get it out. I had one that they had to saw in half, and break one half off of its root, because of how it was wedged in by its neighbors. I guess I'm lucky the Novocaine held out to the end!
I have nothing but the ultimate respect for anyone who served in the "Silent Service". I did my 4 years in Uncle Sam's flying circus while the peanut man was in office, but I could never have stood the confinement due to claustrophobia. PS, 22 veterans commit suicide each day, may they rest in peace.
The USS Silversides floats today at the Silversides Museum in Muskegon, MI. Tours of the boat and the museum available daily throughout the year (though summer is a lot nicer in Muskegon).
You can read about the surgery and see artifacts and photos from the event.
The Silversides is the most successful US submarine of WWII that is still afloat. And she was the first submarine commissioned in the US Navy of WWII, having been commissioned only four days after the Pearl Harbor attack.
Good Wednesday morning History Guy and everyone watching...😊 Destination Tokyo is one of my favorite movies...Bravo Zulu shipmates. OS1(SW/AW) USN Retired
The USS Silversides is now a museum in Muskegon, Michigan.
I’m a big tough man but I almost cried a couple times. Just do your best
I'm reminded of the case of the (female) physician who was over-wintering at the South Pole, when she diagnosed herself with breast cancer. There was no way to get her out. Using air-dropped medical supplies, she managed to treat herself. Eventually, as soon as was physically possible, a plane was sent in to retrieve her. She recovered but eventually succumbed to a re-occurrence. Jerri Nielson! I just looked her up. There's a tale for you, History Guy!
Those are absolutely AMAZING stories, and I am SO glad they worked out. But that was also so sad 😞- “Doc, why didn’t you let me die?”
I was a submariner and served on a fast attack in the 70's corps men were still used.
Merry Christmas HG! Sorry to be late with it, I’m glad you’re back I missed you! So many things we take for granted today were once considered miracles. In my mind, they still are I learned how to perform an appendectomy from the Colliers encyclopedia. Thank goodness I never had to do it, but I knew how if I had to. I did the same thing to learn how to deliver a baby in an emergency. That I could do. Thank you again for your great series.
I didn’t go anywhere…
No matter I’m glad I found you again anyway. Don’t be scarce.
And to think today, small operations and dental care can be given inside submarines as part of the accommodations for the personnel. Mad respect to all submariners; It's the only service in which I know I didn't have what it takes to be one.
I’ve toured the Silversides museum and stood in the room where it happened.
Thanks for bringing some of the achievements of the Hospital Corps to the public.
You mean it wasn't the USS Copperfin, in operation "Destination Tokyo?" As I recall, Cary Grant was commanding. 😉😁
Fascinating look at some real heroes!
You know that disclaimer you see on commercials sometimes? "WARNING: These are trained professionals! Do NOT try this yourself at home!" In this case it would have to have added "That is, UNLESS you're in a situation where not doing it would be a hell of a lot worse..."
Great story, Mr Lance! Thank you very much!
Doing research last night for building a plastic submarine kit, I read the exact passage you referenced in "U-Boot Combat Missions". ESP strikes again!
We need an episode on Cardiac Surgery. Dr. Thomas.
We had a guy with an appendicitis while on patrol once (back in the 1980s). The closest thing to us was a surface ship with a helo onboard. But we were out of range of the helo.
We ran towards the surface ship at high speed and the surface ship ran towards us at high speed Doc (our hosital corpsman) got the wardroom table ready as an operating room and then we waited.
Fortunately, we got within range of the helo and did a personnel transfer. They got him to Australia and a few days later when we pulled in our shipmate was fine - minus his appendix.
I'm glad that the navy got him to a hospital.
But, I also have no doubt Doc could have done the job. He was one damn fine hospital corpsman.
A movie was made and had a huge scene about this thing and I watched it several times. Destination Tokyo.