File size doesn't mean much - some cameras used an uncompressed raw format, and some use a compressed raw format. You can find cameras from the same manufacturer where their 5 megapixel camera produces uncompressed raw files the exact same file size as their 10 megapixel camera that compresses them!
RAW files don't have "pop", your development of said files makes them "pop". This whole hype about CCD sensors is utterly silly, as RAW development is, what makes the final image, not the sensor.
@@Patbwoy CCD sensor has a different architecture to the CMOS. It produces a very different data set to be processed. Whether this reproduction is better or not is rather a subjective matter, but as a whole it appears that raw converters produce a slightly more ' punchy ' image from a CCD sensor. On the downside, it is quite difficult to edit a CCD produced file as extensively as one from a modern CMOS sensor. You pay your money and sing your song.
@@lensman5762 "Punchiness" is easily added during development of the RAW file, which is why I don't understand the hype. Unless of course, said hype is only for those of us, who just use jpg files straight out of cam, which in itself would be a great waste of options if your goal is to make nice photos. Who apart from press photographers (who really need to deliver photos fast) used inferior jpg images straight out of the cam? I have never seen an in-cam jpg algorithm, that's even remotely on par with what one can do with a proper RAW converter. And claiming that RAW files from a CCD sensor have more "pop" ist just as nonsensical, RAW files always look horrible anyway, nobody uses RAW files without editing them. That's the whole point! I'm pretty sure as long as we take RAW images, the type of sensor won't make a bit of difference, and if we take JPGs, it's mostly the jpg algorithm, that makes the look of the image. BTW I've used a D200 for many years, so I know this magnificent camera pretty well.
@@Patbwoy There is no hype. The two sensors produce different ' images '. The raw converter is the one that is the main factor here. Yes, I do have CCDs and CMOS, and some highend Leica M cameras too. The colour redition between cameras is different even straight out of the camera. I can make any of my Nikons or Canons reproduce close enough colours to my Leica M digitals. Some people do not want to spend hours on editing, and I can identify with that. I don't think that anyone is better than the other, just different charactristics. When Leica M10 came out and after a while when the euphoria subsided, people started making presets to make the M10 look like the previous TYP M 240. Everyone has their own prefernces I guess. I still have my D70, and pixel per pixel D70 is sharper than D200 because it has a weaker AA filter. The Leica M8 produces very sharp images out of the camera due to the lack of AA filter, and a very weak IR filter which helps it to produce very very sharp images and at times breathtaking colours. So we just accept the difference between the sensors . Where I agree with you regarding the ' bullshit ' is when they say this camera produces Kodachrome or Ektachrome like images. That is absolute nonsense. This means that they have probably never seen a Kodachrome slide in their lives, or never developed a roll of B&W film.
I am looking to pick up an S5, if I can find it for a price I like or find one I can repair you can bet they'll be a video! Haha that's good I do have a couple more D200 videos ideas I am planning on!
Used Photo Pro in Indiana has a bunch of S5 Pro this week 1 July. Not sure if that's the price range US$190-$260, not inc custom and tariffs. I find SilkyPix difficult mainly because the controls are really small on my screen and there's no adjustment possible.
Dear Mr. 50mm, I keep on watching this video and and noticed that you don't undercut regular talking 50,000 times like almost every other youtube content maker. It drives me insane how they also use this as a style element, jumping back and forth, closer and wider again, like I am a 12 year old kid that cannot watch a continuous take without losing interest. It is so nice and following your "one takes" is refreshing and instantly made me subscribe and like, besides that your review of these two cameras is very engaging, entertaining and great. Thank you for your work. Oliver Oh, and I am the proud owner of a D200 and enjoy that camera very much.
Haha thanks, yeah try to do longer takes and only do a cut if I notice in editing that I am taking an excessive amount of time pausing! Awesome! D200s are still one of my favorites!
Use Silkypix software for Fuji S3/S5. It was originally designed with the CCD in mind. There's an actual slider to render more detail from the S3/S5 sensor in the software called Resolution. It's suppose to recover more highlights and restore some of the interpolated detail. The software is a little slow but the color it resolves from the .raf files is awesome. Great alternative over Lightroom, but not quite as good as the Hyper Utility software designed for the S3/S5.
I am using the current Fujifilm software Raw File convertor EX 3.0 powered by Silkypix. The highlight recovery is very excellent. Your right the camera is able to pull some excellent colors when you work with the software. But I do find the interpolated image while it's not bad, when you put it beside the D200's 10mp images it just doesn't stack up as well.
Thanks for the video. I have both cameras and agree on many of the different points you mention. Both cameras can capture great images but I find myself using the D200 more often.
I love both my S3 and S5,and I know the S5 is a better camera but there is 1 thing I miss on the S5 that is on the S3 (you missed it too) and that is the control you have over the camera using the small screen for WB,quality etc..all in all a very good review (even with the heads up about the slight bias). keep up the good work,your videos are excellent :-)
Thanks, yeah I kind of debated bring up the sub display and soft buttons, as they are an excellent way to work around the film body. Haha but I was trying to keep the video time to under 30 minutes!
I have never owned or used a Nikon N80, Nikon D200, or Fuji S3 Pro. The Fuji S3 Pro is a Fuji modified Nikon N80. The Fuji S5 Pro is a Fuji modified Nikon D200. I own and use three Fuji S5 bodies for shooting portraits, weddings, and other social events with my inventory of Nikon F lenses.
I have a query, regarding the yellow bud picture. you said the right image is D200 . can you double check on that cos i can see the dynamic range is better on the right side image. Although i have a D200 with me but i liked the images coming out of the S3. ofcourse in all other aspects the D200 beats the S3 easily. Thanks for the excellent review.
I can confirm the images are correctly labelled, it might be more a color rendering thing than DR. Neither image histogram is significantly different. However, for these images I didn't really do much to the output other than match the exposure at time of photo or match color temp in order to remove any editing bias (any other edits I did were copied onto the other respective RAWs). I can also confirm when I tweak the S3 raw file I can make it look like the D200 on the right but that's not how it came out with all settings matched. I do think the S3 photo generally appears a bit more flat when you don't tweak stuff and it's DR preservation settings are active (I did have the DR setting to maximum for these comparisons to fully utilize those secondary pixels). However that brought me to the other point that utilizing the wide DR capture effectively does require more work on the editing side to help the final image come out! If I were just editing the photos for my preferences I would have probably done more to both RAWs, but in this case I wanted a more direct comparison!
@@Mr50mmish Appreciate the quick response. This is by far the best comparison video of D200 with any camera. Keep up the good work. All the best. Cheers.
S3 Pro still have another prong for detecting Program and Shutter Priority mode capability of the lenses in other word a way to tell if the lens is capable for aperture adjusting via camera so it's not capable for supporting non-AI lenses. In term of ergonomics, I like Fuji S3 Pro more than Nikon D200 and this is one of the most well ergonomics camera I have ever touch, maybe it's just my personal preference but I like it. Another point is due to S3 Pro using older film camera as a base, it should be compatible with older D-TTL system with flash like SB-28DX, SB-50DX and SB-80DX thogh newer flash is backward compatible with D-TTL, the same can't be said for Nikon D2H and newer camera including Fuji S5 Pro as they use i-TTL like modern camera so they're not compatible with those flash anymore.
Technologically yes they are a better comparison but as far as price point the S3 is currently closer to the value of the D200 than the S5. If I get an S5 I will probably compare it but sensor wise the S3 is the same as the S5 so at the least the image comparisons will be valid for both cams.
@@Mr50mmish S5 Pro used to have around the same value as D200 just a few years ago and most camera thrift shop I know usually dissuade me from getting S5 Pro over D200 because S5 pro is a worse camera overall compared to D200. It's cheap because almost no one want it as it has been released in Photokina 2006 and even in 2010 there are still new unopened S5 Pro on new camera shops because no one want to buy them when there're much better cameras out there like Canon 40D/50D or Nikon D300. S5 Pro in 2007 is already a really out of date camera and it's still a hard sell on used market many years later, because why someone want to buy a 12MP camera by interpolation that only has 6MP true resolution with only 1.5 fps burst rate, everything else seems superior to it by that time. However they're sell in around the same price as D200 on used market in the past 10 years or so at least in where I live, I got one myself for around $160-180 in 2012. However, to my surprise, the current price for S5 Pro on eBay right now is ridiculously expensive for some reason, almost on par with the like of Canon 1Ds Mark II, or Nikon D3.
One thing should be emphasized in addressing the ergonomics and handling disparity between the two bodies, the S3 is based on A FILM CAMERA! Yes, the N/F80 was a 35mm film SLR. In that context, its ergonomics and handling make much more sense.
Yeah I did mention it's based off the older film body, hence the kind of janky controls. So it explains why it is but still even if I were to consider that the D200 for me is just a better handling camera. The film body basis doesn't make up for camera hanging when it's buffer is full or other strange foibles. Not to say I don't like the S3 though, I bought one because I do like it.
Nikon Studio lets you increase resolution when you export jpegs. It works fine- I guess by using AI/interpolation. It also maintains the correct processing for a D200. The S3 ergonomics look a bit like a D100 (which is also based on a N80/F80).
I would imagine it's just interpolation unless there is an AI upscale option in menu. I don't really consider them in the reviews as it then becomes less a look at the cameras. When it comes to processing it's just my preference to use the editor I use since I tend to shoot with almost all brands. The S3's ergonomics are similar but it's ergonomic issues don't necessarily come from the film body basis as much as it's from the janky integration of the digital bits to the film bits. With the D100 it's pretty seemless other than the full size mirror box.
I've got S5 Pro. I wonder, how good is LR 5.1 in extracting details from Super CCD? Where can you get the original Fuji software from? I didn't get mine with my used camera.
I am not sure if Lightroom is able to use the full sensor data. I do believe it can, but I can't say for sure. Fujifilm's software still opens the Super CCD files, the current version is supported. Look for "RAW FILE CONVERTER EX 3.0 powered by SILKYPIX" fujifilm-x.com/global/support/download/software/
True. But the I'm personally not one to add more bulk if not required, I'm pretty comfortable just turning the camera. The lithium batteries on the d200 also lasts much longer than the AA set up on the S3.
"superness". Excellent! I don't know why, and your channel isn't helping in that regard that I'm developing a fascination for older pure photo cameras and sensors.
My D200 returns 15mb files in RAW. It's RAW images have more "pop" than my CMOS cameras. Love my D200!
File size doesn't mean much - some cameras used an uncompressed raw format, and some use a compressed raw format. You can find cameras from the same manufacturer where their 5 megapixel camera produces uncompressed raw files the exact same file size as their 10 megapixel camera that compresses them!
RAW files don't have "pop", your development of said files makes them "pop". This whole hype about CCD sensors is utterly silly, as RAW development is, what makes the final image, not the sensor.
@@Patbwoy CCD sensor has a different architecture to the CMOS. It produces a very different data set to be processed. Whether this reproduction is better or not is rather a subjective matter, but as a whole it appears that raw converters produce a slightly more ' punchy ' image from a CCD sensor. On the downside, it is quite difficult to edit a CCD produced file as extensively as one from a modern CMOS sensor. You pay your money and sing your song.
@@lensman5762 "Punchiness" is easily added during development of the RAW file, which is why I don't understand the hype. Unless of course, said hype is only for those of us, who just use jpg files straight out of cam, which in itself would be a great waste of options if your goal is to make nice photos. Who apart from press photographers (who really need to deliver photos fast) used inferior jpg images straight out of the cam? I have never seen an in-cam jpg algorithm, that's even remotely on par with what one can do with a proper RAW converter. And claiming that RAW files from a CCD sensor have more "pop" ist just as nonsensical, RAW files always look horrible anyway, nobody uses RAW files without editing them. That's the whole point!
I'm pretty sure as long as we take RAW images, the type of sensor won't make a bit of difference, and if we take JPGs, it's mostly the jpg algorithm, that makes the look of the image. BTW I've used a D200 for many years, so I know this magnificent camera pretty well.
@@Patbwoy There is no hype. The two sensors produce different ' images '. The raw converter is the one that is the main factor here. Yes, I do have CCDs and CMOS, and some highend Leica M cameras too. The colour redition between cameras is different even straight out of the camera. I can make any of my Nikons or Canons reproduce close enough colours to my Leica M digitals. Some people do not want to spend hours on editing, and I can identify with that. I don't think that anyone is better than the other, just different charactristics. When Leica M10 came out and after a while when the euphoria subsided, people started making presets to make the M10 look like the previous TYP M 240. Everyone has their own prefernces I guess. I still have my D70, and pixel per pixel D70 is sharper than D200 because it has a weaker AA filter. The Leica M8 produces very sharp images out of the camera due to the lack of AA filter, and a very weak IR filter which helps it to produce very very sharp images and at times breathtaking colours. So we just accept the difference between the sensors . Where I agree with you regarding the ' bullshit ' is when they say this camera produces Kodachrome or Ektachrome like images. That is absolute nonsense. This means that they have probably never seen a Kodachrome slide in their lives, or never developed a roll of B&W film.
I got the S5pro and the D200. The s5 delivers a cooler image. The D200 looks much warmer.
Hmm yeah looking at the images I think it's a similar story with the S3 and D200. which of the 2 cameras do you prefer?
Id be interested to see an s5 pro vs a d200 comparison! Great work by the way! I have 3 d200s lol so i pretty much love any video talking about it.
I am looking to pick up an S5, if I can find it for a price I like or find one I can repair you can bet they'll be a video! Haha that's good I do have a couple more D200 videos ideas I am planning on!
@@Mr50mmish cant wait! if i find one for a decent price ill buy it myself.
Used Photo Pro in Indiana has a bunch of S5 Pro this week 1 July. Not sure if that's the price range US$190-$260, not inc custom and tariffs.
I find SilkyPix difficult mainly because the controls are really small on my screen and there's no adjustment possible.
@@DixonLu oh that's not bad! I'll have to check it out. Haha kind of blew through my camera budget recently though so we'll see if I can get one!
Dear Mr. 50mm,
I keep on watching this video and and noticed that you don't undercut regular talking 50,000 times like almost every other youtube content maker.
It drives me insane how they also use this as a style element, jumping back and forth, closer and wider again, like I am a 12 year old kid that cannot watch a continuous take without losing interest.
It is so nice and following your "one takes" is refreshing and instantly made me subscribe and like, besides that your review of these two cameras is very engaging, entertaining and great.
Thank you for your work.
Oliver
Oh, and I am the proud owner of a D200 and enjoy that camera very much.
Haha thanks, yeah try to do longer takes and only do a cut if I notice in editing that I am taking an excessive amount of time pausing!
Awesome! D200s are still one of my favorites!
Use Silkypix software for Fuji S3/S5. It was originally designed with the CCD in mind. There's an actual slider to render more detail from the S3/S5 sensor in the software called Resolution. It's suppose to recover more highlights and restore some of the interpolated detail. The software is a little slow but the color it resolves from the .raf files is awesome. Great alternative over Lightroom, but not quite as good as the Hyper Utility software designed for the S3/S5.
I am using the current Fujifilm software Raw File convertor EX 3.0 powered by Silkypix. The highlight recovery is very excellent. Your right the camera is able to pull some excellent colors when you work with the software. But I do find the interpolated image while it's not bad, when you put it beside the D200's 10mp images it just doesn't stack up as well.
Thanks for the video. I have both cameras and agree on many of the different points you mention. Both cameras can capture great images but I find myself using the D200 more often.
The famous D200 brought me to my D300s w/ grip and all that ... YEAH!
Really like the video. Just got a D200 myself. Really sweet camera. New sub.
Thanks for the sub! That is awesome, I hope you like the D200 as much as I do!
I love both my S3 and S5,and I know the S5 is a better camera but there is 1 thing I miss on the S5 that is on the S3 (you missed it too) and that is the control you have over the camera using the small screen for WB,quality etc..all in all a very good review (even with the heads up about the slight bias). keep up the good work,your videos are excellent :-)
Thanks, yeah I kind of debated bring up the sub display and soft buttons, as they are an excellent way to work around the film body. Haha but I was trying to keep the video time to under 30 minutes!
If I get this right, I could use my Nikkor FX glass on these Fuji S3 / S5?
@@chawenhalo0089 yup. No issue mounting the lenses.
The Fuji cameras with F-Mount got very popular with wedding photographers.
Yes, you're correct. I am a wedding photographer and used the S2 S3 S5 in the past. They were amazing!!!
I have never owned or used a Nikon N80, Nikon D200, or Fuji S3 Pro.
The Fuji S3 Pro is a Fuji modified Nikon N80.
The Fuji S5 Pro is a Fuji modified Nikon D200.
I own and use three Fuji S5 bodies for shooting portraits, weddings, and other social events with my inventory of Nikon F lenses.
I have a query, regarding the yellow bud picture. you said the right image is D200 . can you double check on that cos i can see the dynamic range is better on the right side image. Although i have a D200 with me but i liked the images coming out of the S3. ofcourse in all other aspects the D200 beats the S3 easily. Thanks for the excellent review.
I can confirm the images are correctly labelled, it might be more a color rendering thing than DR. Neither image histogram is significantly different. However, for these images I didn't really do much to the output other than match the exposure at time of photo or match color temp in order to remove any editing bias (any other edits I did were copied onto the other respective RAWs). I can also confirm when I tweak the S3 raw file I can make it look like the D200 on the right but that's not how it came out with all settings matched.
I do think the S3 photo generally appears a bit more flat when you don't tweak stuff and it's DR preservation settings are active (I did have the DR setting to maximum for these comparisons to fully utilize those secondary pixels). However that brought me to the other point that utilizing the wide DR capture effectively does require more work on the editing side to help the final image come out! If I were just editing the photos for my preferences I would have probably done more to both RAWs, but in this case I wanted a more direct comparison!
@@Mr50mmish Appreciate the quick response. This is by far the best comparison video of D200 with any camera. Keep up the good work. All the best. Cheers.
S3 Pro still have another prong for detecting Program and Shutter Priority mode capability of the lenses in other word a way to tell if the lens is capable for aperture adjusting via camera so it's not capable for supporting non-AI lenses.
In term of ergonomics, I like Fuji S3 Pro more than Nikon D200 and this is one of the most well ergonomics camera I have ever touch, maybe it's just my personal preference but I like it.
Another point is due to S3 Pro using older film camera as a base, it should be compatible with older D-TTL system with flash like SB-28DX, SB-50DX and SB-80DX thogh newer flash is backward compatible with D-TTL, the same can't be said for Nikon D2H and newer camera including Fuji S5 Pro as they use i-TTL like modern camera so they're not compatible with those flash anymore.
I have the S5 Pro. Despite its high dynamic range and nice skin tones, I think it's a tad too soft at 12Mpixels probably due to interpolation.
That is about the experience I'm getting with the S3 pro.
It was a more closer comparison between S5 Pro and D200. They have the same body. And between S3 Pro and S5 Pro it isn't so big gap!
Technologically yes they are a better comparison but as far as price point the S3 is currently closer to the value of the D200 than the S5. If I get an S5 I will probably compare it but sensor wise the S3 is the same as the S5 so at the least the image comparisons will be valid for both cams.
@@Mr50mmish S5 Pro used to have around the same value as D200 just a few years ago and most camera thrift shop I know usually dissuade me from getting S5 Pro over D200 because S5 pro is a worse camera overall compared to D200. It's cheap because almost no one want it as it has been released in Photokina 2006 and even in 2010 there are still new unopened S5 Pro on new camera shops because no one want to buy them when there're much better cameras out there like Canon 40D/50D or Nikon D300. S5 Pro in 2007 is already a really out of date camera and it's still a hard sell on used market many years later, because why someone want to buy a 12MP camera by interpolation that only has 6MP true resolution with only 1.5 fps burst rate, everything else seems superior to it by that time. However they're sell in around the same price as D200 on used market in the past 10 years or so at least in where I live, I got one myself for around $160-180 in 2012.
However, to my surprise, the current price for S5 Pro on eBay right now is ridiculously expensive for some reason, almost on par with the like of Canon 1Ds Mark II, or Nikon D3.
One thing should be emphasized in addressing the ergonomics and handling disparity between the two bodies, the S3 is based on A FILM CAMERA! Yes, the N/F80 was a 35mm film SLR. In that context, its ergonomics and handling make much more sense.
Yeah I did mention it's based off the older film body, hence the kind of janky controls. So it explains why it is but still even if I were to consider that the D200 for me is just a better handling camera. The film body basis doesn't make up for camera hanging when it's buffer is full or other strange foibles. Not to say I don't like the S3 though, I bought one because I do like it.
Nikon Studio lets you increase resolution when you export jpegs. It works fine- I guess by using AI/interpolation. It also maintains the correct processing for a D200.
The S3 ergonomics look a bit like a D100 (which is also based on a N80/F80).
I would imagine it's just interpolation unless there is an AI upscale option in menu. I don't really consider them in the reviews as it then becomes less a look at the cameras.
When it comes to processing it's just my preference to use the editor I use since I tend to shoot with almost all brands.
The S3's ergonomics are similar but it's ergonomic issues don't necessarily come from the film body basis as much as it's from the janky integration of the digital bits to the film bits. With the D100 it's pretty seemless other than the full size mirror box.
I've got S5 Pro. I wonder, how good is LR 5.1 in extracting details from Super CCD? Where can you get the original Fuji software from? I didn't get mine with my used camera.
I am not sure if Lightroom is able to use the full sensor data. I do believe it can, but I can't say for sure. Fujifilm's software still opens the Super CCD files, the current version is supported. Look for "RAW FILE CONVERTER EX 3.0 powered by SILKYPIX" fujifilm-x.com/global/support/download/software/
I use my s3pro iruv everyday ! its so good
That's awesome to hear!
The Nikon D200 is simply an amazing camera and it is also quite cheap to get..
Agreed!
really should have compared the S5pro vs d200
I would do if I had one!
Instale el Grip Nikon MB-D200, y quedarán las dos cámaras del mismo tamaño.
True. But the I'm personally not one to add more bulk if not required, I'm pretty comfortable just turning the camera. The lithium batteries on the d200 also lasts much longer than the AA set up on the S3.
@@Mr50mmish Gracias por responder mi mensaje. Saludos desde Rancagua, Chile.
Thanks for the comment! And greetings back from Halifax in Canada!
"superness". Excellent! I don't know why, and your channel isn't helping in that regard that I'm developing a fascination for older pure photo cameras and sensors.
Haha your welcome :) these old cameras are pretty fun!
As expected
D2oo is weather sealed
S3 Pro is weather sealed as well
You do not know what you’re talking about I own three cameras Fujis3pro
Haha what do you specifically mean? That's fine that you like the camera, but I don't think my points are invalid.
Your opinion is invalid. Do not know what you’re talking about….!!!👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾 Fuji S3 pro is the winner🎉
@@robertbland5131 you're entitled to your own opinion. Doesn't mean mine is invalid.
@@robertbland5131 Maybe you would make a video to show how good the S3pro is. It's not a common camera so people like me never saw one.