Excellent videos. I grew up with VHS but I was always so jealous of a friend of the family who had a surround LD theatre system. He must have spent 15 grand on it, it was so amazing. Sadly, my only memory of LD besides seeing them at HMV or Virgin here in Canada.
This was a great series Culturedog. It is really great to see someone create long in-depth videos about LaserDisc and what it offered. I love learning about how audio for Cinemas and Home Theatre evolved over the years. It is fascinating. I bet that DTS ES (Discrete) 6.1 would have been possible on LaserDisc. There are some movies on Blu-Ray where the lossy versions of the audio mixes for legacy receivers are Dolby Digital EX and DTS ES. Thor 1, X-Men: Days of Future Past, and Star Trek: Beyond are three of them, I assume that there are more. I have compared Optical & Coaxial and I honestly could not tell a difference between the two. They both sounded identical to me.
Thanks so much - glad you enjoyed it! Yeah, if LD had hung on for a bit more, I'm sure DTS would have tried implementing ES into their releases. Same here - I'm fine with optical or coaxial. I just go with what cables I have available and what matching inputs are available on my audio gear.
Hello Sam, The numerous hook ups on laserdisc players is one of the things I really love about the format. So many sound options, so many ways to hook it up and so many ways to enjoy a movie. Todays bluray players just have 3 hook ups at best, HDMI, Coaxial and or Toslink. Boring. I have my Pioneer hooked up so many different ways to my TV and my Onkyo receiver so that I can get the best results from my collection. I love it! Thanks for all of the videos and all of your help. It's much appreciated.
No problem - thanks for watching and chatting! It is pretty fun hooking up all those connections to LD players. I love that they usually have two sets of A/V outs as well - really opens the doors to some fun possibilities!
I just wanted to say that I enjoy your videos very very much I've learned a lot about LaserDisc I have a CLD s280 player yes I know it's not the most expensive player in the world but it definitely gets the job done picture and audio are fantastic I'm very pleased with it anyways I just wanted to say thank you again for your videos they are extremely helpful a very enjoyable to watch
Thanks for the kind words and I'm glad you've enjoyed the channel! Yeah, I've gotten some fancier players over the years, but I had a CLD-S201 hooked up for testing in my main system in recent years and I would totally be happy with that player or something similar!
Everything in this video I found out the hard way over the years! Where was the cdog back then!!😂 There’s nothing like being in your home theater space, amongst tons of parts and cables everywhere scratching your head. I would mention that EX decoding really only works if it was specifically encoded. Otherwise it might only spread some random sounds around. Later on Dolby improved the formula on PLIIx so it’s best to use that for EX now. They stopped EX and dtsES for 6.1 then thx realized 7.1 was a better formulation. The one great thing about prologic application to standard tracks is to run dual mono as single channel mono and/or cut down on noise and hiss. Oddly enough if your speakers are equally placed and the mix is good you can hear the matrix rear center without any decoder as the rear L and R channels naturally form a phantom center image behind the listening position. So some films that aren’t listed as EX but are EX will have this effect and clue you into them being stealth EX titles. And unless they remix the tracks those rear surround centers stay intact even on Blu-ray.
Yeah, I always got a great phantom rear center image with my 5.1 setup - there's always that risk that your brain will process it wrong and think it's coming from the front soundstage, but it's always sounded like a speaker behind me, so no complaints! I wish I knew half the stuff I know now back in the day! Especially all the info about rot and pressing plants etc. Though I love that there's always something new to learn about a "dead" format like this!
You are the man, Sam, and if the "proper" series is 1/3 as good as this off the cuff series, it'll be great. I wonder if maybe you'll mention your favorite LDs for each format?☺
DeoxIT 5% Spray Contact Cleaner is the key to any static in your connections or just to clean your electronics. When I get old audio I clean them, because most old electronic has corrosion from sitting. Great videos I've learn a lot from you my Florida brother. I saw your cable listing and you had WINK News on it. I currently live in Cape Coral we can have coffee sometime. 😊
Great video. This weekend I aded a dvl 909 to one of my setup, and worked fine with DTS discs (just as you said in your DTS video). But the DD doesn't work with optical cable (my receiver plays 2 channels only)... There are 3 coaxial outputs, one RF, and other 2 for DD/PCM. I will try to install a coaxial cable, but I think that model is not capable to output DD 5.1 unless you have a AC3 demodulator. In this setup I have a CLD 504, that doesn't have internal DD demodulator too. So, in the future I will pick up my CLD 704 (that was hooked up in other setup) to enjoy DD 5.1. Greetings from Brazil!
Yeah, the DVL players add an extra layer of complexity due to them having certain outputs for DVD and some for LD - so sometimes the coaxial outputs will be labeled for Dolby Digital, but that only applies to DVD. You'd still need to use the RF out for LD. Sounds like you've got some great players! Thanks for watching and cheers!
Pretty sure Coaxial isn't a "form of optical". It is a copper based connection, still much better than RCA. Which despite what people think uses totally different wiring. Using an RCA cable for "Coaxial" or vice versa can cause a good deal of problems. (Namely distortion and noise.)
The Panasonic LX-1000 was on beaten by Pioneers best $3000 player by a couple of decibels.The Panasonic still got best player by video review around 1990.
I have some THX DVD discs, Hellraiser 1-2, Evil Dead 1-2, Highlander, and some others. Highlander 10th anniversary DVD looks like hot melted ass but damn.... it does sound good! The Hellraiser discs from 2000 look good and sound crisp, the blu ray audio kicks their asses though. Evil Dead 2 sounds great even through tv speaks, very theatrical surround sound and Anchor Bay knew how to make home theater discs back then. The Star Wars THX vhs tapes sounded great from what I remember, definitely the best versions to have back then in terms of audio.
Honestly, I prefer conversational style to a chronological history (which can feel like a class!). I have quite a few discs which are mono sound only - some receivers can spread it out but with mixed results.
Not particularly - most of the draw with AC-3 and DTS were the full-bandwidth stereo surrounds, but it came at the cost of some compression. If I was just rocking a three channel front stage, I'd stick with uncompressed PCM tracks.
Culturedog, how do i hook up the surround ex, matrix 6.1. i have pioneer vsx-81txv it has dolby digital ex, dolby pro logic ii, dolby pro logic iix, dolby digital, dts es, dts neo:6, dts 96/24, dts, THX Select2, THX surround ex. how do i do this.
For Dolby Digital EX on LD, you'll need an external AC-3 RF Demodulator, since that receiver's a little newer and only has coaxial and optical inputs. You'd need to send the player's RF signal (assuming it's a Dolby Digital-capable mid- to late-90s player) over an RCA cable to the demodulator, and either coaxial or optical to the Pioneer AVR, which will receive the data as a regular Dolby Digital 5.1 signal. You'll have to activate the EX decoding on your receiver manually though, since the EX tracks on LD didn't have the automatic detection flags that later releases had.
Hey man, so around the THX certification for Laserdiscs, are you saying that the discs which had a noticeable and at times superior audio track over the previous version of said movie was just more to do with the new audio track than say the THX certification process? So for example the Fox Die Hard release vs the THX AC3 release. THX in this example was just them making sure it met a certain grade? They didn’t have anything to do with the mix? Thanks.
Exactly - THX would have a personal representative present during early stages, but in more of an equipment quality control capacity (like the sample rate conversion gear etc.) The mixers would still be doing their job as if it were any other release. THX would add a series of test signals to the master and then check that along several stages of production and of course test the final discs from the plant to make sure that the audio remained a digital clone of the master. So yeah, the mid-90s Die Hard reissue would have been a strong release with or without the THX stamp, just because of the progress made in the field since that earlier LD transfer. THX on LD were like an A/V combo of security guard and pit crew.
learn a lot from watching your video what do you watch your musicals through is just stereo mode I remember watching sgt peppers by the bee gees in a theater in Chicago which is way before surround sound They Had speakers about as big my bedroom door around the theater and it Rocked wonder what they used back then im petty sure it was probably just stereo I don't think they had surround in 77 when I sew that movie on its first run boy did it Rock my world And that's what got me hook on sound systems today sound was so fantastic and clear
Thanks! For a full-blown musical I'll definitely choose a multi-channel option if it's available. That might have been a 70mm screening of Sgt. Peppers you saw! The Chicago area was one of the few markets to get that in 70mm with Dolby 6-Track, which most likely would have had a surround channel. I found this copy of the original newspaper ad - maybe you were at one these theaters! www.in70mm.com/library/blow_up/year/1978/images/pepper.jpg
@@Culturedog looks like the one I knew it rocked my word also seen pink Floyd the wall there that's where a lot of people would go for musicals it was like being a concert but only with better sound definitely rocked the building for sure I would have love to just seen how many watts of power they were pushing those humongous speakers definitely was an experience ill never forget
Hey! Do you know if a CU-CLD098 remote for the CLD-D703 Pioneer laserdisc player will work with any other Pioneer remote such as a Pioneer cld-d503 or something else? I'm having trouble finding an original remote for my newly purchased cld-d703 laserdisc player. The seller I got it from on Ebay had an aftermarket remote for it.
Yeah, the 098 is a tough one to find, and usually goes for $50 on the rare occasion it shows up. But yeah, any of the other early to mid-90s Pioneer remotes will work with the D703, though you'll likely lose some functionality like DNR etc. Luckily those buttons are on the player faceplate as well.
I haven't seen laser in action yet, but I'm particular to LCoS projectors - either Sony's SXRD or JVC's DILA version. I used to watch LDs on my older 3LCD projector with decent enough results, but not as good as my newer projo. DLP delivers the punch with great contrast, but can sometimes bring weird noise into the brighter portions of the image, and some viewers are susceptible to the DLP rainbow effect. Most of my public LD screenings have been on DLP - it brings a lot of pop to the table.
That's an older analog-only industrial player if I recall correctly. Sometimes when you play newer AC-3 discs on those you'll get a static noise on one channel. Though if it's hissing on both left and right channels, it's possibly something else going on.
Hi Sam- I left a few comments in your last video but I'm sure you've been busy with the holidays so I'll ask it again here as you havent done a livestream in a while. Should I pull the trigger on the LD-S2 for $700? I figure it is a tank and should never break as it's a single- sided player. I think it weighs 75lbs which is insane. Just looking for some friendly advice as I don't know much about the player except that they are pretty rare. Thanks man and Happy Year!
Sorry about that - yeah, it got a little wacky between holidays and random health issues, but I'm back in action! That's not a bad price for an LD-S2 at all, assuming the condition is good. I've been looking to get one (or the LD-X1 Japanese variant) at some point, but haven't lucked into one yet. It's such a gorgeous beast, and is arguably the best U.S. market player alongside the CLD-97. Some of them have been modded for AC-3 as well, which is a nice little bonus if you luck out. But yeah, it'll get you into near-X0 territory at a fraction of the price! Happy New Year! Cheers!
Sam, maybe when you do the "proper" series, instead of just talking direct to camera, you could do a parody of Leonard Nimoy talking to the beeping rock😆😄
Thanks a lot for this series. It answered all my remaining questions about LD audio...
Excellent videos. I grew up with VHS but I was always so jealous of a friend of the family who had a surround LD theatre system. He must have spent 15 grand on it, it was so amazing. Sadly, my only memory of LD besides seeing them at HMV or Virgin here in Canada.
This was a great series Culturedog. It is really great to see someone create long in-depth videos about LaserDisc and what it offered. I love learning about how audio for Cinemas and Home Theatre evolved over the years. It is fascinating.
I bet that DTS ES (Discrete) 6.1 would have been possible on LaserDisc. There are some movies on Blu-Ray where the lossy versions of the audio mixes for legacy receivers are Dolby Digital EX and DTS ES. Thor 1, X-Men: Days of Future Past, and Star Trek: Beyond are three of them, I assume that there are more.
I have compared Optical & Coaxial and I honestly could not tell a difference between the two. They both sounded identical to me.
Thanks so much - glad you enjoyed it! Yeah, if LD had hung on for a bit more, I'm sure DTS would have tried implementing ES into their releases.
Same here - I'm fine with optical or coaxial. I just go with what cables I have available and what matching inputs are available on my audio gear.
Yes. Do a video on THX. Which is still in existence but not like before
Hello Sam, The numerous hook ups on laserdisc players is one of the things I really love about the format. So many sound options, so many ways to hook it up and so many ways to enjoy a movie. Todays bluray players just have 3 hook ups at best, HDMI, Coaxial and or Toslink. Boring. I have my Pioneer hooked up so many different ways to my TV and my Onkyo receiver so that I can get the best results from my collection. I love it! Thanks for all of the videos and all of your help. It's much appreciated.
No problem - thanks for watching and chatting! It is pretty fun hooking up all those connections to LD players. I love that they usually have two sets of A/V outs as well - really opens the doors to some fun possibilities!
Congratulations on completing the audio series. My dts & ACrf are coming together nice. "How 'bout a Fresca?"
"Yes sir... I'm your pal" Thanks mate!
I just wanted to say that I enjoy your videos very very much I've learned a lot about LaserDisc I have a CLD s280 player yes I know it's not the most expensive player in the world but it definitely gets the job done picture and audio are fantastic I'm very pleased with it anyways I just wanted to say thank you again for your videos they are extremely helpful a very enjoyable to watch
Thanks for the kind words and I'm glad you've enjoyed the channel!
Yeah, I've gotten some fancier players over the years, but I had a CLD-S201 hooked up for testing in my main system in recent years and I would totally be happy with that player or something similar!
Everything in this video I found out the hard way over the years! Where was the cdog back then!!😂 There’s nothing like being in your home theater space, amongst tons of parts and cables everywhere scratching your head.
I would mention that EX decoding really only works if it was specifically encoded. Otherwise it might only spread some random sounds around. Later on Dolby improved the formula on PLIIx so it’s best to use that for EX now. They stopped EX and dtsES for 6.1 then thx realized 7.1 was a better formulation. The one great thing about prologic application to standard tracks is to run dual mono as single channel mono and/or cut down on noise and hiss.
Oddly enough if your speakers are equally placed and the mix is good you can hear the matrix rear center without any decoder as the rear L and R channels naturally form a phantom center image behind the listening position. So some films that aren’t listed as EX but are EX will have this effect and clue you into them being stealth EX titles. And unless they remix the tracks those rear surround centers stay intact even on Blu-ray.
Yeah, I always got a great phantom rear center image with my 5.1 setup - there's always that risk that your brain will process it wrong and think it's coming from the front soundstage, but it's always sounded like a speaker behind me, so no complaints!
I wish I knew half the stuff I know now back in the day! Especially all the info about rot and pressing plants etc. Though I love that there's always something new to learn about a "dead" format like this!
You are the man, Sam, and if the "proper" series is 1/3 as good as this off the cuff series, it'll be great.
I wonder if maybe you'll mention your favorite LDs for each format?☺
Thanks buddy - appreciate it greatly!
Awesome idea as well!
DeoxIT 5% Spray Contact Cleaner is the key to any static in your connections or just to clean your electronics. When I get old audio I clean them, because most old electronic has corrosion from sitting. Great videos I've learn a lot from you my Florida brother. I saw your cable listing and you had WINK News on it. I currently live in Cape Coral we can have coffee sometime. 😊
Found this very enlightening. Thank you for the videos.
This so reminds me of the stuff we use to talk about all the time 20 years ago man EX didn't last long
Great video. This weekend I aded a dvl 909 to one of my setup, and worked fine with DTS discs (just as you said in your DTS video). But the DD doesn't work with optical cable (my receiver plays 2 channels only)... There are 3 coaxial outputs, one RF, and other 2 for DD/PCM. I will try to install a coaxial cable, but I think that model is not capable to output DD 5.1 unless you have a AC3 demodulator. In this setup I have a CLD 504, that doesn't have internal DD demodulator too. So, in the future I will pick up my CLD 704 (that was hooked up in other setup) to enjoy DD 5.1. Greetings from Brazil!
Yeah, the DVL players add an extra layer of complexity due to them having certain outputs for DVD and some for LD - so sometimes the coaxial outputs will be labeled for Dolby Digital, but that only applies to DVD. You'd still need to use the RF out for LD.
Sounds like you've got some great players! Thanks for watching and cheers!
Pretty sure Coaxial isn't a "form of optical". It is a copper based connection, still much better than RCA. Which despite what people think uses totally different wiring. Using an RCA cable for "Coaxial" or vice versa can cause a good deal of problems. (Namely distortion and noise.)
The Panasonic LX-1000 was on beaten by Pioneers best $3000 player by a couple of decibels.The Panasonic still got best player by video review around 1990.
I have some THX DVD discs, Hellraiser 1-2, Evil Dead 1-2, Highlander, and some others. Highlander 10th anniversary DVD looks like hot melted ass but damn.... it does sound good! The Hellraiser discs from 2000 look good and sound crisp, the blu ray audio kicks their asses though. Evil Dead 2 sounds great even through tv speaks, very theatrical surround sound and Anchor Bay knew how to make home theater discs back then. The Star Wars THX vhs tapes sounded great from what I remember, definitely the best versions to have back then in terms of audio.
They should have marketed the Hot Melted Ass Highlander Edition! Haha Kinda wish I didn't sell mine now.
Honestly, I prefer conversational style to a chronological history (which can feel like a class!). I have quite a few discs which are mono sound only - some receivers can spread it out but with mixed results.
Good to hear - that's more my vibe as well. I don't mind polished documentaries, but too many people seem to be chasing that structure.
is there any benefit in pursuing AC3, dts, etc if I only have a 3.0 setup (left, right, center)?
Not particularly - most of the draw with AC-3 and DTS were the full-bandwidth stereo surrounds, but it came at the cost of some compression. If I was just rocking a three channel front stage, I'd stick with uncompressed PCM tracks.
Culturedog thanks for the speedy reply, and for this whole series. super interesting deep dive.
@@oneidavf No problem! Thanks for checking it out!
Culturedog, how do i hook up the surround ex, matrix 6.1. i have pioneer vsx-81txv it has dolby digital ex, dolby pro logic ii, dolby pro logic iix, dolby digital, dts es, dts neo:6, dts 96/24, dts, THX Select2, THX surround ex. how do i do this.
For Dolby Digital EX on LD, you'll need an external AC-3 RF Demodulator, since that receiver's a little newer and only has coaxial and optical inputs. You'd need to send the player's RF signal (assuming it's a Dolby Digital-capable mid- to late-90s player) over an RCA cable to the demodulator, and either coaxial or optical to the Pioneer AVR, which will receive the data as a regular Dolby Digital 5.1 signal. You'll have to activate the EX decoding on your receiver manually though, since the EX tracks on LD didn't have the automatic detection flags that later releases had.
I bought an optical cable for my pioneer elite but it doesn’t work, should I just use a digital coax cable??!
Is there an movie that stands out that has DD but that you find to have a superior sounding stereo PCM?
Hey man, so around the THX certification for Laserdiscs, are you saying that the discs which had a noticeable and at times superior audio track over the previous version of said movie was just more to do with the new audio track than say the THX certification process? So for example the Fox Die Hard release vs the THX AC3 release. THX in this example was just them making sure it met a certain grade? They didn’t have anything to do with the mix? Thanks.
Exactly - THX would have a personal representative present during early stages, but in more of an equipment quality control capacity (like the sample rate conversion gear etc.) The mixers would still be doing their job as if it were any other release.
THX would add a series of test signals to the master and then check that along several stages of production and of course test the final discs from the plant to make sure that the audio remained a digital clone of the master.
So yeah, the mid-90s Die Hard reissue would have been a strong release with or without the THX stamp, just because of the progress made in the field since that earlier LD transfer.
THX on LD were like an A/V combo of security guard and pit crew.
Loving to watch full laserdisc movie by TH-cam , do you know any website where I can watch em I’ll appreciate your advice
learn a lot from watching your video what do you watch your musicals through is just stereo mode I remember watching sgt peppers by the bee gees in a theater in Chicago which is way before surround sound They Had speakers about as big my bedroom door around the theater and it Rocked wonder what they used back then im petty sure it was probably just stereo I don't think they had surround in 77 when I sew that movie on its first run boy did it Rock my world And that's what got me hook on sound systems today sound was so fantastic and clear
Thanks! For a full-blown musical I'll definitely choose a multi-channel option if it's available.
That might have been a 70mm screening of Sgt. Peppers you saw! The Chicago area was one of the few markets to get that in 70mm with Dolby 6-Track, which most likely would have had a surround channel.
I found this copy of the original newspaper ad - maybe you were at one these theaters!
www.in70mm.com/library/blow_up/year/1978/images/pepper.jpg
@@Culturedog looks like the one I knew it rocked my word also seen pink Floyd the wall there that's where a lot of people would go for musicals it was like being a concert but only with better sound definitely rocked the building for sure I would have love to just seen how many watts of power they were pushing those humongous speakers definitely was an experience ill never forget
@@musicman257 that's awesome! The Wall must have sounded huge!
@@Culturedog yes it did never forget it
Please do a THX episode, should one aim for these discs etc
It's still on the video roster for sure - I just need to put it on the front burner and get it done!
@@Culturedog
Thamks brother,
Im with a R7G set up.
rocking DTS and AC-3 proud and also loud.
So much mixed info about THX
Hey! Do you know if a CU-CLD098 remote for the CLD-D703 Pioneer laserdisc player will work with any other Pioneer remote such as a Pioneer cld-d503 or something else?
I'm having trouble finding an original remote for my newly purchased cld-d703 laserdisc player. The seller I got it from on Ebay had an aftermarket remote for it.
Yeah, the 098 is a tough one to find, and usually goes for $50 on the rare occasion it shows up. But yeah, any of the other early to mid-90s Pioneer remotes will work with the D703, though you'll likely lose some functionality like DNR etc. Luckily those buttons are on the player faceplate as well.
hi sam, what projector is best for playing laserdisc, dlp- lcd- or laser projector, thanks
I haven't seen laser in action yet, but I'm particular to LCoS projectors - either Sony's SXRD or JVC's DILA version. I used to watch LDs on my older 3LCD projector with decent enough results, but not as good as my newer projo. DLP delivers the punch with great contrast, but can sometimes bring weird noise into the brighter portions of the image, and some viewers are susceptible to the DLP rainbow effect. Most of my public LD screenings have been on DLP - it brings a lot of pop to the table.
Hi, can anyone help. I’ve just bought a Pioneer LD 4 100 laserdisc player. I can’t get any audio other than a hissing sound. What have I done wrong?!
That's an older analog-only industrial player if I recall correctly. Sometimes when you play newer AC-3 discs on those you'll get a static noise on one channel. Though if it's hissing on both left and right channels, it's possibly something else going on.
Hi Sam- I left a few comments in your last video but I'm sure you've been busy with the holidays so I'll ask it again here as you havent done a livestream in a while.
Should I pull the trigger on the LD-S2 for $700? I figure it is a tank and should never break as it's a single- sided player. I think it weighs 75lbs which is insane. Just looking for some friendly advice as I don't know much about the player except that they are pretty rare. Thanks man and Happy Year!
Sorry about that - yeah, it got a little wacky between holidays and random health issues, but I'm back in action!
That's not a bad price for an LD-S2 at all, assuming the condition is good. I've been looking to get one (or the LD-X1 Japanese variant) at some point, but haven't lucked into one yet. It's such a gorgeous beast, and is arguably the best U.S. market player alongside the CLD-97. Some of them have been modded for AC-3 as well, which is a nice little bonus if you luck out. But yeah, it'll get you into near-X0 territory at a fraction of the price!
Happy New Year! Cheers!
Sam, maybe when you do the "proper" series, instead of just talking direct to camera, you could do a parody of Leonard Nimoy talking to the beeping rock😆😄
Oh snap! I think I've got Beeping Rock's number in my Rolodex too. I'll see if he'd be willing to come out of retirement! :-D
Great series Sam. Did a shoutout to them in my latest video:
th-cam.com/video/PhY9RCKPQWk/w-d-xo.html
Thanks mate! Great video btw!