Wasn't sure what to call this one, as it's essentially a tribute to Marge & Bart as a character duo. The original title was simply, "Marge & Bart are great." But this video does compare and contrast Marge/Bart with the more popular Homer/Lisa quite a bit (especially in the first half), so I'm going with the "Underrated" label for now. The goal really was to look at that "other" Simpson family duo that doesn't get as much attention. If y'all can think of a more apt title, let me know. I struggle so much with titles 😆
It is a funny scene but it is not a meme, it is not instantly recognisable to a wide section of society and it doesn't convey an idea. A memetic image acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols, or practices. You might even consider memes a second language.
I think you could build a solid connection between Marge & Bart in how image conscious they both are? Like Bart straining to get the bullies to accept him is extremely on harmony with Marge trying to get the Country Club women to accept her.
That's a good angle! They're both sometimes portrayed as underdogs trying to climb the social ladder, diference being that Bart is always popular and Marge resorts to trying to impress people she doesn't even like.
That's a great observation. Marge and Bart are both incredibly image conscious. Whereas Homer and Lisa don't worry about that stuff quite as much. Lisa follows her passions and Homer has no shame
I could see that working well as an episode, with both Bart and Marge wanting to impress a rich family (Bart wanting to be friends with the kids and Marge with the parents, of course), and trying to work together to make it happen, and growing closer in the process.
That’s actually pretty true. A lot of the more superficial character conflicts come from how the respective images they desire to have clash with each other.
I didn't realize that Bart's main character trait is caring about how other perceive him. He's always trying to be popular, trying to mantain his "bad boy" imagine, but on the other end, Bart really cares about what Marge thinks of him.
Bart needs constant approval. This is not unheard of in "problematic children". The reason why Marge's opinion on him is the one that he cares about the most is because he knows she's the only one who actually believes in him. He may do something that makes everyone in town love him, but if that thing doesn't make Marge proud, is, in the end, useless. Because no one else would stay when he is at his worst... no one but his mom, who will always see the best of him.
In case no one has mentioned it, in the PTA disbands, Bart systematically gets rid of every substitute teacher, right up until Marge comes in. Then he has to rush to get the thumb tack off her chair and tackles her out of the way of his swinging log trap.
I really do love the idea that Bart inherited marge’s mischievousness and Lisa inherited Homer’s intelligence it’s a subversion that doesn’t feel insulting
I think it's the nature of how kids grow up in some ways. Bart is around the age when a kid starts to pull apart from their parents for the first time and while love is still there, boys will often want to do their own thing. Meanwhile, Lisa, being g just a bit younger, may want to be around her dad more and want to feel closer in a lot of ways. It's why I think "Marge Be not Proud" hits so hard, it's Marge for the first time coming to terms with her oldest baby growing up and Bart realizing how bad it hurts when he disappoints her.
Immideatly when seeing the title the first episode I thought was Marge be not proud, I think it summarizes their character dynamic and why there aren't as many episodes around it.
I think Bart's relationship with Marge also transfers into school with Ms. Krabappel. Bart sees Skinner as a combination of Homer(clueless) and Lisa(dorky) and sees him as just someone to have fun antagonizing in a rival type relationship. Meanwhile, with Edna, Bart knows she doesn't see him as a complete failure so Bart tries just hard enough to not disappoint her and is more weary about not taking pranks too far with her.
Marge telling Bart to run for it in Bart the Mother is one of the most underrated touching moments in the series, along with him running back to give her a kiss. So wholesome and sincere. Bart is a troublemaker by default but there are times where breaking the rules is (or at least seems like) the morally correct choice, and I like when a goody-goody like Marge is not only able to see that, but just goes with it without questioning the moral ambiguity of it.
Bart : Everyone thinks they're** monsters, but I raised them and I love them! I know that's hard to understand. Marge : Not as hard as you think. Gets me every time 😭 **Bart’s pet bird eating lizards, Chirpy Boy & Bart Junior.
I'd never thought about it before, but you're absolutely right that there's a strong stigma on close relationships between a mother and a son. And the Simpsons has been very adamantly continuing that stereotype with Skinner and Agnes for 30 years now 🤔 Honestly I've never even found the joke that funny and just wish the writers would let Skinner be independent.
I feel like another big part of the Bart+Marge dynamic is that, while Marge obviously feels the need to look out for Bart as his mother, Bart actually shows some of those same instincts towards her. Like when he helps her out in the monopoly game- "well who else is going to look after her? *Dad?"* Or when he has a go at Homer for not knowing Marge's birthday. Or when he starts riding the tandem bike with her after Homer refused. Or when he yells at Flanders to "back off man!" when he insults her. Marge has a troubled relationship and a stressful, at times very unfulfilling life as a homemaker. While Lisa frequently seems to almost blame, or at least look down on her for this, assuming that she must be in a position as a result of her own choices, Bart as the older (and in some ways more mature) sibling recognises the sacrifices Marge is making for her family, and wants to make things better for her. Obviously, he's still a ten year old, and still a little heckraiser, so frequently he ends up just adding to her stress. And Marge is right to acknowledge that it's not his job, as a kid, to worry about her. But I think this is a trait that will grow more apparent as Bart grows older and becomes naturally more responsible. Most of the flash-forwards (barring the one where he's chief justice of the supreme court) depict Bart as growing up a failure, but I'd kind of like to see one where he ends up pulling it together purely because he wants to support Marge.
i always thought him growing up to be a failure who takes advantage of his parents was so so so off the mark. he very much appreciates marge and wouldn't do anything to actually hurt her. i wholeheartedly agree with the notion he'd shape up to support his mom
Every writer that comes up with the shitty ''Bart becomes a failure stuck at home and eventually gets kicked out LOL'' idea for Bart's future in a flash-forward do not care about nuanced character consistency at all or what made certain relationships in the Simpsons family special since the beginning despite their general dysfunction for a cheap, predictable joke that everyone makes about problem children growing up.
For real, at the very least, Bart would grow up to become a very successful con man, maybe a Lionel Hutz or Saul Goodman character. And that is worst case. :D
I completely agree. Them making bart a failure burnout in futures, feels so reductive of his character. That just because he's not booksmart and rebellious, he'll be a loser. I really do think Bart can be great things in the future, and it's sad the writers just don't go there and take the easy way out by making him a loser.
I've always really liked the Homer-Lisa Bart-Marge focused episodes. Something about those particular interactions just strikes a chord, I guess because all participants are a little more out of their comfort zones, but also tend to open up or soften in ways we don't usually see them. Something about seeing a lummox like Homer doting on Lisa, or hellion like Bart trying to make is mom happy really does it for me.
the fact that The Simpsons Game didn’t have a Marge and Bart level was criminal. the levels Bart had with Homer and Lisa were super fun and memorable, i guess there wasn’t enough dev time and story placement to implement a proper Marge Bart level
It also comes down to one trope just being much more well worn in pop culture than the other. Father-Daughter relationships, in American culture at least, are weirdly prioritized. Father-Daughter dances, the expected protective streak most fathers are supposed to have, even the weirdly accepted idea of the "daddy's girl" On the other hand, boys are almost discouraged from keeping close, healthy relationships with their mothers. The image of hiding behind your mother's leg or skirt is very infantile and the idea of a "momma's boy" is MUCH less positive than a "daddy's girl"
That's just it I think. And as Jims said, The Simpsons itself tends to be kinda brutal with the "Momma's Boy" deal (i.e. Skinner). Bart's also at an age where hanging out with your parents all the time isn't really "cool" anymore. In fact, part of how Homer and Bart subvert this (apart from Father-Son bonding is just more socially acceptable for some reason), is that in most of their episodes, Homer's more on Bart's level than vice versa. It's not so much Bart hanging out with a "parent" as it is Bart hanging out with another kid who is coincidentally also his parent. Homer does lower the boom on Bart occasionally, but their main dynamic tends to be co-conspirators.
@@jaybeetee5272 Well, I think the reason father-son bonding is more "socially acceptable" is that it's seen as the father passing on skills to his son and teaching him how to be a man
There is something always so sad about "marge's son poisoning". Not one thing in the episode suggests that Bart would ever be like skinner except the fantasy sequence. I would have preferred if it ended with them not doing karaoke but them just having tea occasionally. It's nice to have a healthy relationship heck even grown up one where you can share a meal and talk.
Even though it's a small scene I'm a little disappointed you didn't talk aboot the part in Hurricane Neddy where Ned is freaking out and starts yelling at Marge and Bart jumps in between them and is all like "Whoa man back off!". He immediately jumps in to defend his mom
Two Marge/Bart moments that I love: Bart’s “who else would?” when Marge stands up for him to Milhouses mom to let them be friends and, The reconciliation at the end of Marge be not Proud. Sorry, it’s a Christmas episode so it gets away with being extra saccharine.
Hard agree, that whole level also would’ve been way funnier as a Marge and Bart story, since Bart loves the juvenile nature of the game & Marge was up her own ass trying to cancel it.
Always found Marge and Bart's dynamic to be one of the most relatable and genuine to me, as a young boy. Bart wanting to act selfishly and impulsively, but also feeling guilted by his mother's care and support. I also used to think of Marge as lame and nagging when I was a kid, but now see her as sweet and tirelessly nurturing, much how I've come to relate to and respect my own mother from an adult perspective. Thinking about their relationship is a good fast-track to reminding me how good a show The Simpsons has been.
I just think Lisa and Bart is underrated, we only ever see them being evil to each other and Lisa being a weird sidekick, but rarely the soft protective side of Bart and stuff. Sweet sibling stuff just isn’t aloud.
Bart giving Lisa the record she needs when Murphy dies is one of my favourite moments in the show, and I think it's because it reflects his relationship with Marge. Lisa believed in him when he was sick, so he did something for her back without even being asked because he has a soft spot for people trusting him.
I think one of my least favorite episodes of The Simpsons is the one where Lisa gets a restraining order against Bart, and it's driven by the premise that Bart has never done anything nice for her. Sure, there are dumber and less funny episodes out there, but that one angered me because it represented such a gross lack of understanding of their relationship. Sure, they're often antagonistic, but they've also both helped one another out, lots of times. I feel like Bart is the character that the show most consistently gets wrong. Sure, others can be exaggerated and flanderized, but every once in a while they just make Bart mean spirited and hateful because that individual writer thinks he''s just a bad kid and seemingly never watched the show before. The odd joke about Bart is that in the early days of the Simpsons, parents thought he was a bad influence, but he's generally a pretty good kid who does bad stuff sometimes, but doesn't really mean any harm.
I love the Lisa and Bart episodes. Even just when there are moments thrown in are really special. Like in "Bart gets an F", I think the ending hits as hard as it does because of the moment they give to Bart and Lisa to talk first. It makes me wish Maggie was a little older because her and Bart could be gold too.
Another good moment between Bart and Marge is during the "Hurricane Neddy" when Ned snaps and is yelling at everyone in town nobody defends themselves but when Ned targets Marge it causes Bart to get angry and yell back at Ned
These stories just make me sad about how having a close and secure relationship with your mother is treated as an immasculating thing and how deeply that anxiety prevents Bart from being close with this mother regularly, but also Marge from being close with Bart. It's natural that Lisa would want and welcome connection with her father, but Bart has to always deal with this feeling that being close with his mother will make him weak that is often validated by the show itself in characters like Skinner. Also I love Gene/Linda so much. They're cuties.
I think it is just the worst timing for their relationship. Younger, and he would be totally in Marge's Sphere. Older, and he will finally understand what she did for him and appreciate her. Teenage Years are tough for all children. With the guff Lisa give Marge now, just wait until she is 16. :D
I’m adoring these main character analysis videos. They’re such special treats inbetween the Histories, Mysteries and season retrospectives. And I don’t want to make you feel old, but maybe there’s so many latter-day examples of this dynamic because we’re only a few years away from there being more HD episodes than standard definition ones.
As sad as it is, I find these kinds of episodes very difficult to watch without tearing up at points. Marge's relationship with Bart is so similar to my own with my own mother as a kid, it really hits home in a way that Lisa/Homer or Bart/Lisa episodes don't. Even now as an adult, sometimes it can feel like the whole world is against you - that no one's got your back, even yourself. But the knowledge that your mother will always have faith in you and always believe in the very best version of yourself is something really special, and these Simpsons episodes encapsulate it so well.
The same happens to me as well! Just watching this video made me all emotional 😅. The way Marge comforts and gives advice to Bart reminds me a lot of my own mother...
I'm with you 100%. My family dynamic wasn't a million miles from The Simpsons growing up, and being that "problem boy" at times, knowing that your mum always always cares about you no matter what, it's impossible to quantify how important that was, and still is, for me. I have never doubted for a second she would always put my needs above her own, every time.
Exactly, no matter how much u fight, ur mother will always have faith in u. (Also, rlly srry if u never met ur mother or had a negative relationship with them)
That relationship is all on Skinner, though. Skinner is quite passive and just seeks approval from both his mother and Chalmers, which is why he rarely sticks up for himself in either case. Or should I say rarely with Chalmers and almost never with Agnes. Plus, the writers like to see Skinner under his mother's thumb.
@@mightyfilm That's a good point! I can't see Marge raising Bart to be as submissive as Seymour, she doesn't have it in her and she seems wary about pushing Bart too much in the other direction. She wants Bart to be the best Bart he can be.
@@TuesdaysArt Plus I don't see Marge becoming the bitter, hateful, nasty old woman Agnes became. Maybe not in her first appearances, but Agnes slowly became more overbearing and even hateful towards ol' Seymour. Marge is too loving a person for that. If she can stand her sisters constantly haranguing her for marrying Homer, she can see the good in anyone.
@@mightyfilm I really think the idea now is that Agnes was always a bitch and that behavior emotionally castrated Skinner from a young age. That it's not that Skinner wants this relationship, but that he has Stockholm Syndrome from being abused his whole life. He loves his mother, but also hates her, like in the Brad Goodman episode where he attacks the dummy that represents her. The reality is that everyone loves their mother, even the most hardened criminal. But Society demands that men need to grow up to take charge and stand on their own two feet. Even today, where gender roles are loosely defined, a major complaint of women is that men don't take charge, that they are passive, that they just play video games and don't get married and start families. I wonder if Society has become like Agnes Skinner, abusing Masculinity and then mocking its absence. Maybe Society needs to be more like Marge Simpson, setting rules and consequences, but also being understanding, nurturing, and constructive, instead of destructive.
When you mentioned Lemon of Troy in this video, it made me realize how much I want a Lemon of Troy Extra Seconds! That episode is so funny, unique, stylish, and adventurous, and it demonstrates that compelling "push and pull" of Bart's character excellently. The characterization of the town of Shelbyville is so fun and inventive. It also has this vague, unmistakable haze of nostalgia surrounding it for me, it sort of invites you to bask in the "play-pretend" world of childhood where lemonade stand rivalries can destroy reputations and Milhouse's camouflage fantasy seems like a legitimate possibility. I'd love to hear your take on it, beyond the thoughts you shared in the season 6 top 10 video. It's an episode I often forget about but it honestly might be one of my favorites.
In the MMO story I wish more time was spent in the aftermath, where Marge avenges Bart. We could have had a cool moment similar to when he discovers that she was a prankster where he can relate to the brutality with which Marge avenges her son.
Bart’s little comedy skit/Marge impression in The Last Temptation of Krust has always been one of my favorite scenes -- He absolutely nails it, the reactions are perfect and the love is unmistakably there.
Just wanted to mention that Homer and Lisa’s contrast from what I’ve seen is Lisa’s maturity for her age, and Homer’s childishness (I mean neither of these in a negative way). The episode where Homer brings Lisa to work and they make marshmallows kinda brings that inner child out of Lisa. They really can bring the best out of each other.
There's honestly something to be said in that Bart may have more in common with Marge than he does Homer at times, like yes, he obviously has his share of qualities in common with him, but he definitely takes after his mom, too. Hell, Bart's faith in Krusty seems more like Marge than Homer in influence. Just, Marge's faith in Bart is better placed than Bart's in Krusty.
one of my favorite subtle bart and marge moments that always comes to mind to for me is in Scenes from the Class Struggle in Springfield at the end when marge realizes she's distancing herself from her family and lists off all of the less savory traits she told them to relax on for the country club, and it ends with her just saying that she likes bart exactly the way he is without naming anything specific. it's a really sweet and funny line that sticks out to me a lot more than other, bigger scenes and episodes
I think beneath his 'bad boy and proud of it' exterior, Bart has always been a very soulful and sensitive person, capable of great introspection and empathy. "Bart Sells His Soul" is a prime example of that, but the stories he shares with Marge show this too. The christmas episode is one of the richest and most characterful in series history.
the very beginning of this video gave me "I thought this was the story of how I got my saxophone" "It is, so Bart had just finished his first day of school, and Bart was feeling...." vibes.
Marge is def my favorite character in the show. I think that her relationship with Bart is one of the most consistent things throughout the show. I love whenever they are paired together.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on Bart's relationship with Grandpa. They get even less focus episodes than Bart and Marge but I always thought it was interesting since Bart clearly looks up to Grandpa more than he does Homer.
I think the problem with the Seymour/Agnes relationship isn't that Seymour is close to his mother. It's that Agnes constantly bullies and belittles her son. Therefore Marge's concern about Bart growing up to be a Seymour in the end of Marge's Son Poisoning is unwarranted since she is nowhere near of a mother like Agnes. Also, wonder if the recording of this video had any retakes caused by saying Mart and Barge?
One of my favorite subtle character moment with these two is Marge's reaction to Bart's call in "Gone Boy" (S29): "He's alive and sassy!", such an understanding of how Bart's psyche works without it being an elaborate sappy story, just an interaction moment) And "Bart The Mother", as wacky it get by the end, as season 10 goes, is their peak as family duo. Which is weird, though, writers having constant need in inventing some brand-new reason for bonding between them, even going as far as introducing never previously surfaced character traits, when they *do* both have one recurring thread in common, and the show constantly reminds of it in different forms: their artistic inspirations. Even when episode creates situation for Marge's artistic collaboration with her child, it's with Lisa instead ("Springfield Splendor", also S29). Don't know why the series is avoiding to address this major connection between them.
Yes!! Exactly! I know "prankster" Marge is more fun and ties into Bart's most known character trait, but it would've been interesting to see "grafitti artist Marge" since it fits in more with her character and upbringing. Like I guess she could have a rebellious phase in middle school, but I can't see Marge actively harming people out of spite if they've done nothing wrong to her. I feel like her rebellion would reflect more in her artwork.
@@TuesdaysArt I thought more about Bart getting into high art (because even Homer once took interest in it in the show), but adapting it to his needs. There was story in comics about him taking interest in Magritte's visual paradoxes and using it for Marge's defence no less (long story). And it even fits in some hints series had of him being possibly into art field (and having hidden intelligence and sophistication).
You're absolutely right: this is a dynamic largely unexplored by the show, and surprisingly not subverted by the social stigma of moms and their sons getting along. I remmeber this mostly in "Marge Be Not Proud" but I still remmeber the depth it gives Bart beyond a troublemaker, it gives him conscience and someone to not disappoint.
Yeah, unfortunately Bart's at an age where he's just not into hanging out with his parents that much, and Marge is his primary parent. (Part of how Homer-Bart episodes get around this is by making Homer more of a co-conspirator instead of "the heavy" in their shenanigans.) It's sort of highlighted in that one episode you mentioned where Bart and Marge start spending a ton of time together. Marge is having a great time, but even she realizes that a boy Bart's age should be out doing other things and not hanging out with his mom all the time. I think Lisa gets around this partially because she's a bit younger and father-daughter/mother-daughter dynamics are more socially acceptable, but also because it's already established that Lisa's a bit weird. She has unusual and niche interests and doesn't really have friends her own age. Every now and then the show does a bit of a character reset and tries to make her a normal little girl again, but most of the time, she's portrayed as a bit of a loner who relies on her family to socialize moreso than Bart does. That is to say, Marge nudging Bart out of the nest (even if she doesn't really want to) is perceived as responsible parenting towards Bart. Nudging Lisa out of the nest is seen as nearly cruel, in that it would likely just result in Lisa being alone.
I feel like this paragraph on the Wikipedia page describing Bart's character really sums him up as well as his and Marge's dynamic really well: " Despite his attitude, Bart is sometimes willing to experience humiliation if it means pleasing his mom. Marge has expressed an understanding for her "special little guy" and has defended him on many occasions. She once said 'I know Bart can be a handful, but I also know what he's like inside. He's got a spark. It's not a bad thing ...of course, it makes him do bad things.'"
Bart/Marge is by far my favorite dynamic in the entire show, I understand why it isn't pushed as much as Homer/Lisa but it still is a bit of a bummer. Great analysis video as always!
I'm so interested in that duo dynamic. Bart is a ten-year-old, which means the most profound bond of his life so far is with his mother, BUT he's a rebellious boy, which means she'd be the last person he'd want to be embrace with, regardless of her personality. But on top of that, you have the fact that Marge is -- on the face of it -- the cutesy-est, corniest lady in town. All this means that if Bart identifies with Marge, he'll be showing his softer, square-er side, but it Marge identifies with Bart, she'll be showing off her edgy side. And since these two characters are at their best when they play all the keys, I'm always here for a Marge and Bart ep.
I think the reason Marge largely doesn't have many defining "duo" episodes in the way Homer does with Bart, Lisa and even Maggie is because I think Homer, Lisa and Bart have this constant pull to be better I guess Homer despite his flaws wants to be a good husband, father and son, therefore he's constant battling his inner flaws to be the best man he can be, Lisa is always trying to fit in while still maintaining her maturity and intelligence, Bart on the other hand is always up to mischief and no good but had this constant voice that wants him to do good hence why we see him show a lot of care for Lisa and Marge. Marge however is probably the only member who is rarely at conflict with herself and us often the voice of reason. She's a loving and caring mother and wife, she already has wonderful relationships with her family. This is also why I think it hits harder when Marge stops being that to Homer, Bart or Lisa. And typically Marge is happy being this way so she won't let someone change her morals and doesn't try to change her family unless it's needed, but will always try to be a guiding light.
Marge, and Bart aren't so different. I mean, they both share an interest in pranking, exotic food groups, the Springfield Police Academy, that fantasyland game, Artistic skills, Driving Vehicles, and both have an arch rival, aka, Bob, and Helen LoveJoy. That's an A+ in my book. 😁👍
I think that a good alternate take on "Marge Gamer" would have been to reverse Marge and Bart's fates in the middle of the story. Have Marge be the one who gets Bart killed, Bart gets upset at her while all the other players celebrate Marge, Marge feels bad because she just wanted to play with her son and embarks on the quest to revive him, but is stymied by her lack of knowledge and experience in the game. So, she goes to Bart, the experienced person she knows at the game, to teach her how to become good enough to resurrect him. They have a heart to heart, Bart agrees to help Marge git gud, and we get a good ol' training montage of Bart teaching Marge the joys and benefits of griefing people in a video game for your own gain. You end it by Marge successfully reviving Bart, and the two becoming the most feared duo to the point that they both get permanently banned from playing the game because no one else wants to as long as they're around. Bart and Marge may not be able to play the game anymore, but they have some great memories got to bond over something fun. I think putting the onus on Marge to fix a mistake she made by invading bart's space is a good way to show her values as a mom and having Bart be the one to teach her how to get better at the game is a good way to have them bond. You could easily picture a few scenes of Marge being too nice to enemies before shows her to how kill them, that's some classic Marge, I think. Overall, I think the episode would have been more fun if Marge was the one who had to grow and learn vs Bart. Parents have to learn and will learn things from their kids all the time, so making it another "Bart messes up and fixes his mistake" episode feels like a missed opportunity to cast the duo in a more interesting way.
I think there's a case to be said when we think about how forgotten Maggie is when thinking of duo dynamics in the series, but the few episodes that touches on it are really heartwarming even in the modern era
Maggie has so much untapped potential the writers won't really explore outside of her doing baby hijinks because babies doing things babies don't normally do is funny.
I would love to see a flash forward episode that's just a focus on Maggie and her interactions with the family. Her and Bart especially have a lot of potential for a great dynamic. Since the age gap between them is significant, he might want to be the parent to her that Homer wasn't for him, but she could turn out to be just as rebellious as Bart. They could also be partners in crime? I'm not sure how it would play out exactly, but I think there's something there.
To be completely honest, I haven't seen as much Simpsons as I claim I have (in fact, I only started to watch the HD era this year, and even then I've only seen two episodes from that era), but thanks to this channel, I do know enough about how the show has evolved to totally predict that Marge-Bart episodes are mostly a back-half of the show thing. I guess I have Simpsons fanboy enlightenment now
A fantastic observation, and probably one of my favorite episodes of yours yet. I believe in lots of television, the positives of the mother and son dynamic is something removed from culture, and is taken over by the "mamma's boy" idea. Bart and Marge have always been a great duo in the show, and to see your analysis discuss their relationship is awesome. I think a lot of what you mentioned also helps us to understand the other character. Bart fans understand Marge more, and why her relationship is an important factor in keeping him grounded. While Marge fans get better insight into Marge, and how seriously she takes being a parent to her children. I think both characters help bring out better traits in the other, when the plot isn't intentionally putting them against each other. It also helps give Bart and Marge fans more things to like about their favorite characters, as they see the influence and relationship they have for one another. I think you did awesome with this video, and I always appreciate the content you put out. It is very consistent, always well written, and I leave with new interesting perspectives to think about on every video. Thank you for the content that you put out, as always I look forward to your next video.
The Marge and Bart plots as well with the Homer and Lisa plots are nice, kind and heartwarming but for real Maggie in The Simpsons Family is so underrated
I love the idea that Lisa got her intelligence from Homer based on the episode where Homer had a crayon removed from his brain, and that Bart actually got his mischievous behavior from Marge who was a prankster in her youth instead. I know it's been established before that Marge was a good student before, but it's the twist concept that I like the most. You would think Lisa got her smarts thanks to Marge while Bart takes after Homer when it's the other way around.
Gracias por estos videos, They make me appreciate the series and the family so much at levels that i did not know what I did always end up crying thank you for these videos so dedicated and made with love, appreciate them very much fr
Rewatching this video, I would loooove a backstory on Marge being pregnant with Bart. Like, she was young, she wasn't even married, and this kid changed her life. Did she had that moment like Homer and Maggie of "I will do whatever for this kid"? I mean, she was in a relationship her whole family frowned upon, so they probably talked about the pregnancy as if she ruined her life. Marge probably had to defend Bart from minute - 0.
I really appreciate this video. There was something that always ate deep in my soul every time Bart disappointed Marge in some way and his reaction to make things right; This deep dive made me realize my similar relation between me and my caretaker when I was a kid and how I felt similar feelings of not wanting to disappoint her Never thought one of these videos would ever answer a lifelong question I’ve had about myself with this show, but there ya go.
I really enjoyed your comparison of Marge/Bart to Linda/Gene from Bob's Burgers. Marge/Bart also reminds me a lot of the Linda/Louise dynamic on BB, in that there aren't many spotlight moments for the two of them. Mother Daughter Laser Razor really illustrated this for me, that Linda and Louise have a lot of difficulty relating to one another, in large part because Linda tries too hard to force a special experience and Louise is an inflexible personality that lacks an interest in developing a deeper bond to begin with.
I think the Louise/Linda dynamic works a little better because the show stablished Linda's wild side (which was worse in her youth). That gives them something to relate to. Like, there's this episode where Louise gets in trouble for defending someone in need, and since Linda never cared about breaking the rules to do what's right, she doesn't want to discourage that behavior.
I'd honestly kill for an analysis of Bob and Teddy's friendship. Bob keeps putting barriers and acting like their relationship is one-sided, maybe because he's embarassed of Teddy? Seems like he takes him for granted sometimes with everything he's done for the family.
You know what I think I'd like to see? It's in a similar vein to that tea-house episode, or the pranks, or the MMO. Or hell, even the good parts of Co-dependants day. I wanna see an episode where Marge gets a passion or interest in something that Bart is already known for, without worrying too hard about the mommy's boy stuff. Like I could see one centering around Bart's graffiti. Marge catches him pulling off an el-barto. But maybe make it a graffiti alley or somewhere out of the way and have it show off that, hey, Bart is actually kind of good at this. Maybe the episode could go off on a parody of Banksy and the overly publicized street art stuff. But at it's core have it be a shared passion for art that she and Bart share. We already know she's got that love for art in her, Bart could really push her in a fun new direction. Street art also is such a debated topic in the real world that you don't need to force any conflict internally like was done with the pranks. Marge and Bart can both be partners in crime, and the natural effect of graffiti can handle the rest. Actually, now that I type it all out. Why hasn't this been done yet? Kind of feels like a freebie for modern simpsons.
To further elaborate on your mention about Marge being able to reach/meet Bart to his level, this has been proven to work (and with much less chaotic results no less) in Whacking Day. When she encourages him to read “Johnny Tremain” with certain edgy details, he became more interested in learning and reading. I prefer it this way when Marge can teach or be a positive influence on Bart without the story resorting to the typical Simpsons zaniness (especially if Bart is the cause).
thank you so much for doing this video. i have always loved the crossgender parent-child relations in the simpsons. growing up with my mom with significantly less time with my dad, this relationship has always been the most real & relatable, and consistent one on the show
As soon as i saw the title of this video, i was thinking we would have had toonrific Tariq pop in to sell us on the greatness of Marge lol thanks for this one, Jim keep up the great work
@@TheRealJims he always comes to mind first when it comes to Marge appreciation lol he helped me see the character in a whole new way he's very good at that!
Great video as always, Jims. I think another example of Marge being the only one able to get through to Bart is in Wacking Day, when her teaching him actually makes him a successful student.
These two have a good comedy duo aspect in how opposite they are. Bart is the cool badboy, and Marge is the lame wet blanket. I think one of the fun things about these two is how easily they're able to drive each other crazy. But at the same time if they work together they help balance each other out.
I think of the Simpson family pairings the least interesting one is Lisa and Marge, in a lot of ways they are too similar and the conflicts aren't as fun. Homer/Lisa is great for the Clash of personalities, Lisa/Bart are a great dynamic duo and fun foils to each other, and Homer/Bart are a fun and chaotic pairing. Honestly I think Grandpa and Homer is a pairing that's better than Lisa and Marge, as infrequently as we get it.
Marge and Lisa are a better combo for serious interpersonal conflicts than comedy, which isn't ideal in a show based on comedy. I have to keep reminding myself that The Simpsons wouldn't be "The Simpsons" anymore if it tapped into the potential I see in it.
I think that there may be a way to get this combo to work. The first I can think of is having each of them be image conscious, but with conflicting images. Marge want's her family to seem well put together and model members of society, while Bart wants people to think of him as a cool bad boy type. The moral of the episode would be that more than image, being true to one's self is most important. Maybe have a scene where Marge draws unwanted attention to herself when defending Bart, then having Bart swallow his pride and sacrifice his image for his mom. The other idea I had is closer to the prank episode but tweaked. Marge shouldn't be put on the same level as Bart, but Bart should want to rise to his mother's level. In other words, Bart would find an admirable quality in his mom; he thinks she is cool. Marge has shown herself to be physically gifted at times, she's shot guns before, and she can and will do anything for her kids. I imagine a scenario where Bart wants to go do some activity, I'm thinking bmx, snowboarding, etc. and marge goes with as a chaperone. While chaperoning, she demonstrates insane natural skill in the activity.
A miscellaneous video I'd like to see is figuring out what's on the Krusty the Klown Show. We just mostly see his clown antics, Itchy and Scratchy, and sometimes a zookeeper or something like that bringing an animal on stage, but an episode said it goes on for 3 hours and that it has a lot more shows we never see
I really like these two. I like Bart when he is more reflective and he often crosses some lines with Marge that prompt him to think back on his actions and himself. And Marge often has to get creative with how she engages with her son and her lighthearted oblivious nature means she often has fun opening up to that other side of herself.
First and foremost, excellent video as always. I love these videos that analyze different character dynamics. One request, a Simpsons History of Wiggum.
To add to your list at the end, Bart also moved the thumbtack from her chair and immediately pushes her out of the way of the log when she's his substitute teacher xD Love your videos!
Plans for Halloween? How about another TOH Showdown between TOH XIV and TOH XX, since you talked about both in your Hidden Gems videos from the Middle and Modern Simpsons?
Finally an episode I can comment insightfully on! Marge and Bart are the only combo of characters that does not have a level together in The Simpsons Game. Homer Marge, Homer Lisa, Homer Bart etc. all get levels together but as a kid I always found it weird that Marge and Bart never got to be playable at the same time.
Marge Be Not Proud is the best version of this for me- touching and sweet but also with some solid gags "How's that game going to help with your putting?"
Yo, Jims. Simpsons mysteries idea: When Homer went bald. Because Homer’s hair is very weird. When Lisa is 3 in Lisa’s Sax, Homer has no hair, in Barthood, Lisa is a little older than that, but Homer was not bald, just balding, idk it just bothers me.
The Hurricane Neddy episode has one of my favourite Bart and Marge moments where on Neds Warpath, he has a go at Marge and Bart quickly steps in and tells him to "Back off, man!".
Wasn't sure what to call this one, as it's essentially a tribute to Marge & Bart as a character duo. The original title was simply, "Marge & Bart are great." But this video does compare and contrast Marge/Bart with the more popular Homer/Lisa quite a bit (especially in the first half), so I'm going with the "Underrated" label for now. The goal really was to look at that "other" Simpson family duo that doesn't get as much attention.
If y'all can think of a more apt title, let me know. I struggle so much with titles 😆
It’s a perfect title dude, thank you for the ridiculous amount of detail you put into the analysis’s!
Maybe overlooked rather than underrated?
Really hope you continue doing these character pairing videos, they’re a nice compliment to the Simpsons Histories
This title is perfectly cromulent don't doubt yourself dude, great video and the title delivered!
Mom & Her Special Little Guy
This duo created the krumping meme
Thank you for reminding me of that scene 😂
It is a funny scene but it is not a meme, it is not instantly recognisable to a wide section of society and it doesn't convey an idea. A memetic image acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols, or practices. You might even consider memes a second language.
I had to look it up, that's pretty hilarious.
@@Voltaic_Fire meme master, I kneel.
@@ghoulbuster1 Nobody likes a smart arse. :p
I think you could build a solid connection between Marge & Bart in how image conscious they both are? Like Bart straining to get the bullies to accept him is extremely on harmony with Marge trying to get the Country Club women to accept her.
That's a good angle! They're both sometimes portrayed as underdogs trying to climb the social ladder, diference being that Bart is always popular and Marge resorts to trying to impress people she doesn't even like.
That's a great observation. Marge and Bart are both incredibly image conscious. Whereas Homer and Lisa don't worry about that stuff quite as much. Lisa follows her passions and Homer has no shame
Good eye
I could see that working well as an episode, with both Bart and Marge wanting to impress a rich family (Bart wanting to be friends with the kids and Marge with the parents, of course), and trying to work together to make it happen, and growing closer in the process.
That’s actually pretty true. A lot of the more superficial character conflicts come from how the respective images they desire to have clash with each other.
I didn't realize that Bart's main character trait is caring about how other perceive him. He's always trying to be popular, trying to mantain his "bad boy" imagine, but on the other end, Bart really cares about what Marge thinks of him.
Bart needs constant approval. This is not unheard of in "problematic children". The reason why Marge's opinion on him is the one that he cares about the most is because he knows she's the only one who actually believes in him. He may do something that makes everyone in town love him, but if that thing doesn't make Marge proud, is, in the end, useless. Because no one else would stay when he is at his worst... no one but his mom, who will always see the best of him.
In case no one has mentioned it, in the PTA disbands, Bart systematically gets rid of every substitute teacher, right up until Marge comes in. Then he has to rush to get the thumb tack off her chair and tackles her out of the way of his swinging log trap.
The swinging log trap is straight up murder. Bart killed substitutes.
I really do love the idea that Bart inherited marge’s mischievousness and Lisa inherited Homer’s intelligence it’s a subversion that doesn’t feel insulting
I think it's the nature of how kids grow up in some ways. Bart is around the age when a kid starts to pull apart from their parents for the first time and while love is still there, boys will often want to do their own thing. Meanwhile, Lisa, being g just a bit younger, may want to be around her dad more and want to feel closer in a lot of ways.
It's why I think "Marge Be not Proud" hits so hard, it's Marge for the first time coming to terms with her oldest baby growing up and Bart realizing how bad it hurts when he disappoints her.
Immideatly when seeing the title the first episode I thought was Marge be not proud, I think it summarizes their character dynamic and why there aren't as many episodes around it.
I disagree. I never stopped being close to my mom.
@@icecreamhero2375 I also disagree, I was never close to my dad lol
@@miiamidblu Same.
@@icecreamhero2375 I was speaking generally. I know everyone is different and it really depends on the person.
I think Bart's relationship with Marge also transfers into school with Ms. Krabappel. Bart sees Skinner as a combination of Homer(clueless) and Lisa(dorky) and sees him as just someone to have fun antagonizing in a rival type relationship. Meanwhile, with Edna, Bart knows she doesn't see him as a complete failure so Bart tries just hard enough to not disappoint her and is more weary about not taking pranks too far with her.
Bart needs a tough but caring woman. Someone who can be firm with him, but also nurturing.
Marge telling Bart to run for it in Bart the Mother is one of the most underrated touching moments in the series, along with him running back to give her a kiss. So wholesome and sincere. Bart is a troublemaker by default but there are times where breaking the rules is (or at least seems like) the morally correct choice, and I like when a goody-goody like Marge is not only able to see that, but just goes with it without questioning the moral ambiguity of it.
Bart : Everyone thinks they're** monsters, but I raised them and I love them! I know that's hard to understand.
Marge : Not as hard as you think.
Gets me every time 😭
**Bart’s pet bird eating lizards, Chirpy Boy & Bart Junior.
I always loved that when Ned snapped and Bart jumped in when he was yelling at Marge.
I'd never thought about it before, but you're absolutely right that there's a strong stigma on close relationships between a mother and a son. And the Simpsons has been very adamantly continuing that stereotype with Skinner and Agnes for 30 years now 🤔 Honestly I've never even found the joke that funny and just wish the writers would let Skinner be independent.
I feel like another big part of the Bart+Marge dynamic is that, while Marge obviously feels the need to look out for Bart as his mother, Bart actually shows some of those same instincts towards her.
Like when he helps her out in the monopoly game- "well who else is going to look after her? *Dad?"* Or when he has a go at Homer for not knowing Marge's birthday. Or when he starts riding the tandem bike with her after Homer refused. Or when he yells at Flanders to "back off man!" when he insults her.
Marge has a troubled relationship and a stressful, at times very unfulfilling life as a homemaker. While Lisa frequently seems to almost blame, or at least look down on her for this, assuming that she must be in a position as a result of her own choices, Bart as the older (and in some ways more mature) sibling recognises the sacrifices Marge is making for her family, and wants to make things better for her.
Obviously, he's still a ten year old, and still a little heckraiser, so frequently he ends up just adding to her stress. And Marge is right to acknowledge that it's not his job, as a kid, to worry about her. But I think this is a trait that will grow more apparent as Bart grows older and becomes naturally more responsible. Most of the flash-forwards (barring the one where he's chief justice of the supreme court) depict Bart as growing up a failure, but I'd kind of like to see one where he ends up pulling it together purely because he wants to support Marge.
I love this analysis so much, you're on point
i always thought him growing up to be a failure who takes advantage of his parents was so so so off the mark. he very much appreciates marge and wouldn't do anything to actually hurt her. i wholeheartedly agree with the notion he'd shape up to support his mom
Every writer that comes up with the shitty ''Bart becomes a failure stuck at home and eventually gets kicked out LOL'' idea for Bart's future in a flash-forward do not care about nuanced character consistency at all or what made certain relationships in the Simpsons family special since the beginning despite their general dysfunction for a cheap, predictable joke that everyone makes about problem children growing up.
For real, at the very least, Bart would grow up to become a very successful con man, maybe a Lionel Hutz or Saul Goodman character. And that is worst case. :D
I completely agree. Them making bart a failure burnout in futures, feels so reductive of his character. That just because he's not booksmart and rebellious, he'll be a loser.
I really do think Bart can be great things in the future, and it's sad the writers just don't go there and take the easy way out by making him a loser.
I've always really liked the Homer-Lisa Bart-Marge focused episodes. Something about those particular interactions just strikes a chord, I guess because all participants are a little more out of their comfort zones, but also tend to open up or soften in ways we don't usually see them.
Something about seeing a lummox like Homer doting on Lisa, or hellion like Bart trying to make is mom happy really does it for me.
the fact that The Simpsons Game didn’t have a Marge and Bart level was criminal. the levels Bart had with Homer and Lisa were super fun and memorable, i guess there wasn’t enough dev time and story placement to implement a proper Marge Bart level
It also comes down to one trope just being much more well worn in pop culture than the other. Father-Daughter relationships, in American culture at least, are weirdly prioritized. Father-Daughter dances, the expected protective streak most fathers are supposed to have, even the weirdly accepted idea of the "daddy's girl"
On the other hand, boys are almost discouraged from keeping close, healthy relationships with their mothers. The image of hiding behind your mother's leg or skirt is very infantile and the idea of a "momma's boy" is MUCH less positive than a "daddy's girl"
I think that comes down to how American culture perceives masculinity, how any and all "femenine" traits are seen as shameful.
@@matti.8465 Yep, toxic masculinity, one of the main reasons we aren't allowed to have nice things
That's just it I think. And as Jims said, The Simpsons itself tends to be kinda brutal with the "Momma's Boy" deal (i.e. Skinner). Bart's also at an age where hanging out with your parents all the time isn't really "cool" anymore.
In fact, part of how Homer and Bart subvert this (apart from Father-Son bonding is just more socially acceptable for some reason), is that in most of their episodes, Homer's more on Bart's level than vice versa. It's not so much Bart hanging out with a "parent" as it is Bart hanging out with another kid who is coincidentally also his parent. Homer does lower the boom on Bart occasionally, but their main dynamic tends to be co-conspirators.
@@jaybeetee5272 Well, I think the reason father-son bonding is more "socially acceptable" is that it's seen as the father passing on skills to his son and teaching him how to be a man
They hate it because they don't have it.
There is something always so sad about "marge's son poisoning". Not one thing in the episode suggests that Bart would ever be like skinner except the fantasy sequence. I would have preferred if it ended with them not doing karaoke but them just having tea occasionally. It's nice to have a healthy relationship heck even grown up one where you can share a meal and talk.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Homer/Lisa episodes but Bart/Marge episodes/plots were always more heartwarming and entertaining to me
Are you a boy or a girl?
@@barryallen871 I’m a guy, why ask?
@@spoofy8885 maybe it reminds you of you and your mother
same here, i love my mom.
@@barryallen871update: I’m a girl.
Even though it's a small scene I'm a little disappointed you didn't talk aboot the part in Hurricane Neddy where Ned is freaking out and starts yelling at Marge and Bart jumps in between them and is all like "Whoa man back off!". He immediately jumps in to defend his mom
Great shout. Everyone likes to think they'd jump in to protect their mum like that.
Here's a catchphrase for your adult years, hey buddy, got a quarter?
I am shocked and appalled
"You're hurting the one person who still believes in you."
That broke my heart.
Two Marge/Bart moments that I love:
Bart’s “who else would?” when Marge stands up for him to Milhouses mom to let them be friends and,
The reconciliation at the end of Marge be not Proud. Sorry, it’s a Christmas episode so it gets away with being extra saccharine.
I'm still pissed they were the only duo that never got a level together in the Simpsons Game, especially since Grand Theft Scratchy was RIGHT THERE.
Hard agree, that whole level also would’ve been way funnier as a Marge and Bart story, since Bart loves the juvenile nature of the game & Marge was up her own ass trying to cancel it.
@@SpaceOcelot4548 Agreed with you as well.
Always found Marge and Bart's dynamic to be one of the most relatable and genuine to me, as a young boy. Bart wanting to act selfishly and impulsively, but also feeling guilted by his mother's care and support. I also used to think of Marge as lame and nagging when I was a kid, but now see her as sweet and tirelessly nurturing, much how I've come to relate to and respect my own mother from an adult perspective. Thinking about their relationship is a good fast-track to reminding me how good a show The Simpsons has been.
I just think Lisa and Bart is underrated, we only ever see them being evil to each other and Lisa being a weird sidekick, but rarely the soft protective side of Bart and stuff. Sweet sibling stuff just isn’t aloud.
Bart giving Lisa the record she needs when Murphy dies is one of my favourite moments in the show, and I think it's because it reflects his relationship with Marge. Lisa believed in him when he was sick, so he did something for her back without even being asked because he has a soft spot for people trusting him.
I think one of my least favorite episodes of The Simpsons is the one where Lisa gets a restraining order against Bart, and it's driven by the premise that Bart has never done anything nice for her. Sure, there are dumber and less funny episodes out there, but that one angered me because it represented such a gross lack of understanding of their relationship. Sure, they're often antagonistic, but they've also both helped one another out, lots of times.
I feel like Bart is the character that the show most consistently gets wrong. Sure, others can be exaggerated and flanderized, but every once in a while they just make Bart mean spirited and hateful because that individual writer thinks he''s just a bad kid and seemingly never watched the show before.
The odd joke about Bart is that in the early days of the Simpsons, parents thought he was a bad influence, but he's generally a pretty good kid who does bad stuff sometimes, but doesn't really mean any harm.
I love the Lisa and Bart episodes. Even just when there are moments thrown in are really special.
Like in "Bart gets an F", I think the ending hits as hard as it does because of the moment they give to Bart and Lisa to talk first.
It makes me wish Maggie was a little older because her and Bart could be gold too.
Bart and Lisa usually have more moments in other media. their levels in The Simpsons Game like at the lumberyard are good examples
My favorite bit is the pajamas joke. Like Bart admits immediately that of course she bought them for him.
This duo taught me how to "Watch out for the Shaq attack!" Yes, Marge and Bart are the most underrated duo of the primary Simpsons family.
Ctrl-f "shaq attack," you beat me too it. What a wonderful mom.
“I told you to watch out.”
Another good moment between Bart and Marge is during the "Hurricane Neddy" when Ned snaps and is yelling at everyone in town nobody defends themselves but when Ned targets Marge it causes Bart to get angry and yell back at Ned
These stories just make me sad about how having a close and secure relationship with your mother is treated as an immasculating thing and how deeply that anxiety prevents Bart from being close with this mother regularly, but also Marge from being close with Bart. It's natural that Lisa would want and welcome connection with her father, but Bart has to always deal with this feeling that being close with his mother will make him weak that is often validated by the show itself in characters like Skinner.
Also I love Gene/Linda so much. They're cuties.
I think it is just the worst timing for their relationship. Younger, and he would be totally in Marge's Sphere. Older, and he will finally understand what she did for him and appreciate her. Teenage Years are tough for all children. With the guff Lisa give Marge now, just wait until she is 16. :D
I’m adoring these main character analysis videos. They’re such special treats inbetween the Histories, Mysteries and season retrospectives. And I don’t want to make you feel old, but maybe there’s so many latter-day examples of this dynamic because we’re only a few years away from there being more HD episodes than standard definition ones.
As sad as it is, I find these kinds of episodes very difficult to watch without tearing up at points. Marge's relationship with Bart is so similar to my own with my own mother as a kid, it really hits home in a way that Lisa/Homer or Bart/Lisa episodes don't.
Even now as an adult, sometimes it can feel like the whole world is against you - that no one's got your back, even yourself. But the knowledge that your mother will always have faith in you and always believe in the very best version of yourself is something really special, and these Simpsons episodes encapsulate it so well.
The same happens to me as well! Just watching this video made me all emotional 😅. The way Marge comforts and gives advice to Bart reminds me a lot of my own mother...
me too :,)
I'm with you 100%. My family dynamic wasn't a million miles from The Simpsons growing up, and being that "problem boy" at times, knowing that your mum always always cares about you no matter what, it's impossible to quantify how important that was, and still is, for me. I have never doubted for a second she would always put my needs above her own, every time.
Exactly, no matter how much u fight, ur mother will always have faith in u. (Also, rlly srry if u never met ur mother or had a negative relationship with them)
They actually make a great duo. As long as they don't turn into Principal Skinner and his mother duo.
That relationship is all on Skinner, though. Skinner is quite passive and just seeks approval from both his mother and Chalmers, which is why he rarely sticks up for himself in either case. Or should I say rarely with Chalmers and almost never with Agnes. Plus, the writers like to see Skinner under his mother's thumb.
@@mightyfilm That's a good point! I can't see Marge raising Bart to be as submissive as Seymour, she doesn't have it in her and she seems wary about pushing Bart too much in the other direction. She wants Bart to be the best Bart he can be.
@@TuesdaysArt Plus I don't see Marge becoming the bitter, hateful, nasty old woman Agnes became. Maybe not in her first appearances, but Agnes slowly became more overbearing and even hateful towards ol' Seymour. Marge is too loving a person for that. If she can stand her sisters constantly haranguing her for marrying Homer, she can see the good in anyone.
@@mightyfilm I really think the idea now is that Agnes was always a bitch and that behavior emotionally castrated Skinner from a young age. That it's not that Skinner wants this relationship, but that he has Stockholm Syndrome from being abused his whole life. He loves his mother, but also hates her, like in the Brad Goodman episode where he attacks the dummy that represents her.
The reality is that everyone loves their mother, even the most hardened criminal. But Society demands that men need to grow up to take charge and stand on their own two feet. Even today, where gender roles are loosely defined, a major complaint of women is that men don't take charge, that they are passive, that they just play video games and don't get married and start families.
I wonder if Society has become like Agnes Skinner, abusing Masculinity and then mocking its absence. Maybe Society needs to be more like Marge Simpson, setting rules and consequences, but also being understanding, nurturing, and constructive, instead of destructive.
When you mentioned Lemon of Troy in this video, it made me realize how much I want a Lemon of Troy Extra Seconds! That episode is so funny, unique, stylish, and adventurous, and it demonstrates that compelling "push and pull" of Bart's character excellently. The characterization of the town of Shelbyville is so fun and inventive. It also has this vague, unmistakable haze of nostalgia surrounding it for me, it sort of invites you to bask in the "play-pretend" world of childhood where lemonade stand rivalries can destroy reputations and Milhouse's camouflage fantasy seems like a legitimate possibility. I'd love to hear your take on it, beyond the thoughts you shared in the season 6 top 10 video. It's an episode I often forget about but it honestly might be one of my favorites.
In the MMO story I wish more time was spent in the aftermath, where Marge avenges Bart. We could have had a cool moment similar to when he discovers that she was a prankster where he can relate to the brutality with which Marge avenges her son.
Bart’s little comedy skit/Marge impression in The Last Temptation of Krust has always been one of my favorite scenes -- He absolutely nails it, the reactions are perfect and the love is unmistakably there.
Just wanted to mention that Homer and Lisa’s contrast from what I’ve seen is Lisa’s maturity for her age, and Homer’s childishness (I mean neither of these in a negative way). The episode where Homer brings Lisa to work and they make marshmallows kinda brings that inner child out of Lisa. They really can bring the best out of each other.
There's honestly something to be said in that Bart may have more in common with Marge than he does Homer at times, like yes, he obviously has his share of qualities in common with him, but he definitely takes after his mom, too. Hell, Bart's faith in Krusty seems more like Marge than Homer in influence. Just, Marge's faith in Bart is better placed than Bart's in Krusty.
Marge be not proud is one of my favorite episodes, and I’ve always loved them as a pairing.
Me too! Glad I'm not the only one who ships them!
@@googamp32 umm
@@googamp32 please tell me you just don’t know what that means
@@saucyrooster1192 Sorry to disappoint you, but nope!
@@googamp32 I did not need that image in my head.
one of my favorite subtle bart and marge moments that always comes to mind to for me is in Scenes from the Class Struggle in Springfield at the end when marge realizes she's distancing herself from her family and lists off all of the less savory traits she told them to relax on for the country club, and it ends with her just saying that she likes bart exactly the way he is without naming anything specific. it's a really sweet and funny line that sticks out to me a lot more than other, bigger scenes and episodes
I think beneath his 'bad boy and proud of it' exterior, Bart has always been a very soulful and sensitive person, capable of great introspection and empathy. "Bart Sells His Soul" is a prime example of that, but the stories he shares with Marge show this too. The christmas episode is one of the richest and most characterful in series history.
the very beginning of this video gave me "I thought this was the story of how I got my saxophone" "It is, so Bart had just finished his first day of school, and Bart was feeling...." vibes.
Marge is def my favorite character in the show. I think that her relationship with Bart is one of the most consistent things throughout the show. I love whenever they are paired together.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on Bart's relationship with Grandpa. They get even less focus episodes than Bart and Marge but I always thought it was interesting since Bart clearly looks up to Grandpa more than he does Homer.
Homer's Oedipal fear of Bart was definitely a joke I didn't get until I was significantly older.
Wish we got to see more of this relationship - Whenever they try it they really get it right!
I think the problem with the Seymour/Agnes relationship isn't that Seymour is close to his mother. It's that Agnes constantly bullies and belittles her son. Therefore Marge's concern about Bart growing up to be a Seymour in the end of Marge's Son Poisoning is unwarranted since she is nowhere near of a mother like Agnes.
Also, wonder if the recording of this video had any retakes caused by saying Mart and Barge?
One of my favorite subtle character moment with these two is Marge's reaction to Bart's call in "Gone Boy" (S29): "He's alive and sassy!", such an understanding of how Bart's psyche works without it being an elaborate sappy story, just an interaction moment) And "Bart The Mother", as wacky it get by the end, as season 10 goes, is their peak as family duo.
Which is weird, though, writers having constant need in inventing some brand-new reason for bonding between them, even going as far as introducing never previously surfaced character traits, when they *do* both have one recurring thread in common, and the show constantly reminds of it in different forms: their artistic inspirations. Even when episode creates situation for Marge's artistic collaboration with her child, it's with Lisa instead ("Springfield Splendor", also S29). Don't know why the series is avoiding to address this major connection between them.
Yes!! Exactly! I know "prankster" Marge is more fun and ties into Bart's most known character trait, but it would've been interesting to see "grafitti artist Marge" since it fits in more with her character and upbringing. Like I guess she could have a rebellious phase in middle school, but I can't see Marge actively harming people out of spite if they've done nothing wrong to her. I feel like her rebellion would reflect more in her artwork.
@@TuesdaysArt I thought more about Bart getting into high art (because even Homer once took interest in it in the show), but adapting it to his needs. There was story in comics about him taking interest in Magritte's visual paradoxes and using it for Marge's defence no less (long story). And it even fits in some hints series had of him being possibly into art field (and having hidden intelligence and sophistication).
You're absolutely right: this is a dynamic largely unexplored by the show, and surprisingly not subverted by the social stigma of moms and their sons getting along. I remmeber this mostly in "Marge Be Not Proud" but I still remmeber the depth it gives Bart beyond a troublemaker, it gives him conscience and someone to not disappoint.
Very underrated. Marge and Bart you don't see often but when you do it's enjoyable. I love it
Yeah, unfortunately Bart's at an age where he's just not into hanging out with his parents that much, and Marge is his primary parent. (Part of how Homer-Bart episodes get around this is by making Homer more of a co-conspirator instead of "the heavy" in their shenanigans.) It's sort of highlighted in that one episode you mentioned where Bart and Marge start spending a ton of time together. Marge is having a great time, but even she realizes that a boy Bart's age should be out doing other things and not hanging out with his mom all the time.
I think Lisa gets around this partially because she's a bit younger and father-daughter/mother-daughter dynamics are more socially acceptable, but also because it's already established that Lisa's a bit weird. She has unusual and niche interests and doesn't really have friends her own age. Every now and then the show does a bit of a character reset and tries to make her a normal little girl again, but most of the time, she's portrayed as a bit of a loner who relies on her family to socialize moreso than Bart does.
That is to say, Marge nudging Bart out of the nest (even if she doesn't really want to) is perceived as responsible parenting towards Bart. Nudging Lisa out of the nest is seen as nearly cruel, in that it would likely just result in Lisa being alone.
I feel like this paragraph on the Wikipedia page describing Bart's character really sums him up as well as his and Marge's dynamic really well: " Despite his attitude, Bart is sometimes willing to experience humiliation if it means pleasing his mom. Marge has expressed an understanding for her "special little guy" and has defended him on many occasions. She once said 'I know Bart can be a handful, but I also know what he's like inside. He's got a spark. It's not a bad thing ...of course, it makes him do bad things.'"
Bart/Marge is by far my favorite dynamic in the entire show, I understand why it isn't pushed as much as Homer/Lisa but it still is a bit of a bummer. Great analysis video as always!
I'm so interested in that duo dynamic. Bart is a ten-year-old, which means the most profound bond of his life so far is with his mother, BUT he's a rebellious boy, which means she'd be the last person he'd want to be embrace with, regardless of her personality. But on top of that, you have the fact that Marge is -- on the face of it -- the cutesy-est, corniest lady in town.
All this means that if Bart identifies with Marge, he'll be showing his softer, square-er side, but it Marge identifies with Bart, she'll be showing off her edgy side. And since these two characters are at their best when they play all the keys, I'm always here for a Marge and Bart ep.
I've been waiting for a video on this! I've always felt like the Marge and Bart duo doesn't get as much love as it deserves. Great work as always.
Wonderful job as always RealJims. Agree that Marge/Bart episodes are profoundly deep.
I think the reason Marge largely doesn't have many defining "duo" episodes in the way Homer does with Bart, Lisa and even Maggie is because I think Homer, Lisa and Bart have this constant pull to be better I guess Homer despite his flaws wants to be a good husband, father and son, therefore he's constant battling his inner flaws to be the best man he can be, Lisa is always trying to fit in while still maintaining her maturity and intelligence, Bart on the other hand is always up to mischief and no good but had this constant voice that wants him to do good hence why we see him show a lot of care for Lisa and Marge. Marge however is probably the only member who is rarely at conflict with herself and us often the voice of reason. She's a loving and caring mother and wife, she already has wonderful relationships with her family. This is also why I think it hits harder when Marge stops being that to Homer, Bart or Lisa. And typically Marge is happy being this way so she won't let someone change her morals and doesn't try to change her family unless it's needed, but will always try to be a guiding light.
Thank you for making this video! I’ve always found Marge & Bart to be an under appreciated duo
Marge, and Bart aren't so different. I mean, they both share an interest in pranking, exotic food groups, the Springfield Police Academy, that fantasyland game, Artistic skills, Driving Vehicles, and both have an arch rival, aka, Bob, and Helen LoveJoy. That's an A+ in my book. 😁👍
I think that a good alternate take on "Marge Gamer" would have been to reverse Marge and Bart's fates in the middle of the story.
Have Marge be the one who gets Bart killed, Bart gets upset at her while all the other players celebrate Marge, Marge feels bad because she just wanted to play with her son and embarks on the quest to revive him, but is stymied by her lack of knowledge and experience in the game.
So, she goes to Bart, the experienced person she knows at the game, to teach her how to become good enough to resurrect him. They have a heart to heart, Bart agrees to help Marge git gud, and we get a good ol' training montage of Bart teaching Marge the joys and benefits of griefing people in a video game for your own gain.
You end it by Marge successfully reviving Bart, and the two becoming the most feared duo to the point that they both get permanently banned from playing the game because no one else wants to as long as they're around.
Bart and Marge may not be able to play the game anymore, but they have some great memories got to bond over something fun.
I think putting the onus on Marge to fix a mistake she made by invading bart's space is a good way to show her values as a mom and having Bart be the one to teach her how to get better at the game is a good way to have them bond. You could easily picture a few scenes of Marge being too nice to enemies before shows her to how kill them, that's some classic Marge, I think.
Overall, I think the episode would have been more fun if Marge was the one who had to grow and learn vs Bart. Parents have to learn and will learn things from their kids all the time, so making it another "Bart messes up and fixes his mistake" episode feels like a missed opportunity to cast the duo in a more interesting way.
I think there's a case to be said when we think about how forgotten Maggie is when thinking of duo dynamics in the series, but the few episodes that touches on it are really heartwarming even in the modern era
Maggie has so much untapped potential the writers won't really explore outside of her doing baby hijinks because babies doing things babies don't normally do is funny.
I would love to see a flash forward episode that's just a focus on Maggie and her interactions with the family. Her and Bart especially have a lot of potential for a great dynamic.
Since the age gap between them is significant, he might want to be the parent to her that Homer wasn't for him, but she could turn out to be just as rebellious as Bart. They could also be partners in crime? I'm not sure how it would play out exactly, but I think there's something there.
To be completely honest, I haven't seen as much Simpsons as I claim I have (in fact, I only started to watch the HD era this year, and even then I've only seen two episodes from that era), but thanks to this channel, I do know enough about how the show has evolved to totally predict that Marge-Bart episodes are mostly a back-half of the show thing. I guess I have Simpsons fanboy enlightenment now
That's a really good read. They do seem like the kind of follow-up duo that writers would think about much later, don't they?
Marge and Bart is the mother/son relationship everyone wants
I love the integration of quotes in this video, I think it adds a lot to your points and credibility. Keep it up!
A fantastic observation, and probably one of my favorite episodes of yours yet. I believe in lots of television, the positives of the mother and son dynamic is something removed from culture, and is taken over by the "mamma's boy" idea. Bart and Marge have always been a great duo in the show, and to see your analysis discuss their relationship is awesome. I think a lot of what you mentioned also helps us to understand the other character. Bart fans understand Marge more, and why her relationship is an important factor in keeping him grounded. While Marge fans get better insight into Marge, and how seriously she takes being a parent to her children.
I think both characters help bring out better traits in the other, when the plot isn't intentionally putting them against each other. It also helps give Bart and Marge fans more things to like about their favorite characters, as they see the influence and relationship they have for one another. I think you did awesome with this video, and I always appreciate the content you put out. It is very consistent, always well written, and I leave with new interesting perspectives to think about on every video.
Thank you for the content that you put out, as always I look forward to your next video.
One of my fave Bart/Marge moments is "watch out for the Shaq attack!" and then "I told you to watch out" lmao xD
Really goes to show how important Marge is to the family. That one person who believes in the goodness of people, especially in her prankster son.
The Marge and Bart plots as well with the Homer and Lisa plots are nice, kind and heartwarming but for real Maggie in The Simpsons Family is so underrated
Marge be not proud is one of my favorite episodes I'm glad you made this as i really love this dynamic!
I love the idea that Lisa got her intelligence from Homer based on the episode where Homer had a crayon removed from his brain, and that Bart actually got his mischievous behavior from Marge who was a prankster in her youth instead. I know it's been established before that Marge was a good student before, but it's the twist concept that I like the most. You would think Lisa got her smarts thanks to Marge while Bart takes after Homer when it's the other way around.
Gracias por estos videos, They make me appreciate the series and the family so much at levels that i did not know what I did
always end up crying
thank you for these videos so dedicated and made with love, appreciate them very much fr
Rewatching this video, I would loooove a backstory on Marge being pregnant with Bart. Like, she was young, she wasn't even married, and this kid changed her life. Did she had that moment like Homer and Maggie of "I will do whatever for this kid"? I mean, she was in a relationship her whole family frowned upon, so they probably talked about the pregnancy as if she ruined her life. Marge probably had to defend Bart from minute - 0.
I really appreciate this video. There was something that always ate deep in my soul every time Bart disappointed Marge in some way and his reaction to make things right; This deep dive made me realize my similar relation between me and my caretaker when I was a kid and how I felt similar feelings of not wanting to disappoint her
Never thought one of these videos would ever answer a lifelong question I’ve had about myself with this show, but there ya go.
One thing I love is how defensive Bart often is of Marge. He is almost always the first to step in or say something when someone confronts her.
This was really insightful. This might be one of your best episodes. Thank you for this deep character analysis.
I was hoping you'd talk about this. Great work as always!
I really enjoyed your comparison of Marge/Bart to Linda/Gene from Bob's Burgers. Marge/Bart also reminds me a lot of the Linda/Louise dynamic on BB, in that there aren't many spotlight moments for the two of them. Mother Daughter Laser Razor really illustrated this for me, that Linda and Louise have a lot of difficulty relating to one another, in large part because Linda tries too hard to force a special experience and Louise is an inflexible personality that lacks an interest in developing a deeper bond to begin with.
I think the Louise/Linda dynamic works a little better because the show stablished Linda's wild side (which was worse in her youth). That gives them something to relate to.
Like, there's this episode where Louise gets in trouble for defending someone in need, and since Linda never cared about breaking the rules to do what's right, she doesn't want to discourage that behavior.
I would love if you did specific Bob's Burgers videos. The differences in the family dynamic are so interesting.
I'd honestly kill for an analysis of Bob and Teddy's friendship.
Bob keeps putting barriers and acting like their relationship is one-sided, maybe because he's embarassed of Teddy? Seems like he takes him for granted sometimes with everything he's done for the family.
I love how Bart acts all tough and cool, but deep down, he's a Mama's boy 🥰
I’d also say that Bart takes Grandpa seriously as well but not as much as Marge.
That's probably an even more underrated dynamic
My favourite Bart and Marge moment is when she homeschools him. She just knows how to motivate her “special little guy”
You know what I think I'd like to see? It's in a similar vein to that tea-house episode, or the pranks, or the MMO. Or hell, even the good parts of Co-dependants day.
I wanna see an episode where Marge gets a passion or interest in something that Bart is already known for, without worrying too hard about the mommy's boy stuff. Like I could see one centering around Bart's graffiti. Marge catches him pulling off an el-barto. But maybe make it a graffiti alley or somewhere out of the way and have it show off that, hey, Bart is actually kind of good at this. Maybe the episode could go off on a parody of Banksy and the overly publicized street art stuff. But at it's core have it be a shared passion for art that she and Bart share. We already know she's got that love for art in her, Bart could really push her in a fun new direction. Street art also is such a debated topic in the real world that you don't need to force any conflict internally like was done with the pranks. Marge and Bart can both be partners in crime, and the natural effect of graffiti can handle the rest.
Actually, now that I type it all out. Why hasn't this been done yet? Kind of feels like a freebie for modern simpsons.
To further elaborate on your mention about Marge being able to reach/meet Bart to his level, this has been proven to work (and with much less chaotic results no less) in Whacking Day. When she encourages him to read “Johnny Tremain” with certain edgy details, he became more interested in learning and reading. I prefer it this way when Marge can teach or be a positive influence on Bart without the story resorting to the typical Simpsons zaniness (especially if Bart is the cause).
thank you so much for doing this video. i have always loved the crossgender parent-child relations in the simpsons. growing up with my mom with significantly less time with my dad, this relationship has always been the most real & relatable, and consistent one on the show
As soon as i saw the title of this video, i was thinking we would have had toonrific Tariq pop in to sell us on the greatness of Marge lol thanks for this one, Jim keep up the great work
When I was writing the ending, I realized I gotta shout out Tariq here. He basically already delivered the Marge tribute on this channel 👑
@@TheRealJims he always comes to mind first when it comes to Marge appreciation lol he helped me see the character in a whole new way he's very good at that!
Great video as always, Jims. I think another example of Marge being the only one able to get through to Bart is in Wacking Day, when her teaching him actually makes him a successful student.
These two have a good comedy duo aspect in how opposite they are. Bart is the cool badboy, and Marge is the lame wet blanket. I think one of the fun things about these two is how easily they're able to drive each other crazy. But at the same time if they work together they help balance each other out.
I think of the Simpson family pairings the least interesting one is Lisa and Marge, in a lot of ways they are too similar and the conflicts aren't as fun. Homer/Lisa is great for the Clash of personalities, Lisa/Bart are a great dynamic duo and fun foils to each other, and Homer/Bart are a fun and chaotic pairing.
Honestly I think Grandpa and Homer is a pairing that's better than Lisa and Marge, as infrequently as we get it.
Marge and Lisa are a better combo for serious interpersonal conflicts than comedy, which isn't ideal in a show based on comedy. I have to keep reminding myself that The Simpsons wouldn't be "The Simpsons" anymore if it tapped into the potential I see in it.
I think that there may be a way to get this combo to work. The first I can think of is having each of them be image conscious, but with conflicting images. Marge want's her family to seem well put together and model members of society, while Bart wants people to think of him as a cool bad boy type. The moral of the episode would be that more than image, being true to one's self is most important. Maybe have a scene where Marge draws unwanted attention to herself when defending Bart, then having Bart swallow his pride and sacrifice his image for his mom. The other idea I had is closer to the prank episode but tweaked. Marge shouldn't be put on the same level as Bart, but Bart should want to rise to his mother's level. In other words, Bart would find an admirable quality in his mom; he thinks she is cool. Marge has shown herself to be physically gifted at times, she's shot guns before, and she can and will do anything for her kids. I imagine a scenario where Bart wants to go do some activity, I'm thinking bmx, snowboarding, etc. and marge goes with as a chaperone. While chaperoning, she demonstrates insane natural skill in the activity.
A miscellaneous video I'd like to see is figuring out what's on the Krusty the Klown Show. We just mostly see his clown antics, Itchy and Scratchy, and sometimes a zookeeper or something like that bringing an animal on stage, but an episode said it goes on for 3 hours and that it has a lot more shows we never see
This is a really good overview on how to write compelling family dynamics in general.
These Simpson family relationship videos always get me emotional. I'm trying so hard not to cry before work ^.^
I really like these two. I like Bart when he is more reflective and he often crosses some lines with Marge that prompt him to think back on his actions and himself. And Marge often has to get creative with how she engages with her son and her lighthearted oblivious nature means she often has fun opening up to that other side of herself.
They were one hell of a doubles team.
First and foremost, excellent video as always. I love these videos that analyze different character dynamics. One request, a Simpsons History of Wiggum.
To add to your list at the end, Bart also moved the thumbtack from her chair and immediately pushes her out of the way of the log when she's his substitute teacher xD
Love your videos!
Plans for Halloween? How about another TOH Showdown between TOH XIV and TOH XX, since you talked about both in your Hidden Gems videos from the Middle and Modern Simpsons?
Finally an episode I can comment insightfully on! Marge and Bart are the only combo of characters that does not have a level together in The Simpsons Game. Homer Marge, Homer Lisa, Homer Bart etc. all get levels together but as a kid I always found it weird that Marge and Bart never got to be playable at the same time.
Marge Be Not Proud is the best version of this for me- touching and sweet but also with some solid gags "How's that game going to help with your putting?"
Yo, Jims. Simpsons mysteries idea: When Homer went bald. Because Homer’s hair is very weird. When Lisa is 3 in Lisa’s Sax, Homer has no hair, in Barthood, Lisa is a little older than that, but Homer was not bald, just balding, idk it just bothers me.
The Hurricane Neddy episode has one of my favourite Bart and Marge moments where on Neds Warpath, he has a go at Marge and Bart quickly steps in and tells him to "Back off, man!".
I do remember when Ned Flanders was snapping and yelling at the town. When he starts yelling at Marge, Bart yells at him to back off.