Just don't dair so high and don't approach with dair like a dummy or even at all until they just don't expect it; nair still exists, and you can just keep shining at low percent until mid percent.
I personally like the variety of controllers, and the almost "culture" behind them. Finding the right controller for you is kinda c00l. To just rip that away would be a bit sad. Plus it takes skill to use bad/average controllers, so that'd be taken away as well. People tend to think the controller is way more of a contributor to whether or not you can do certain tech, sure it changes how easy it is, but it's really the player's skill at play. tl;dr: No Johns.
@@VinnytotheK yea but controller discrepancies are a valid complaint. Getting a good controller is really hard, and is a big reason why newer players feel as if they can never play competitively without getting a perfect one, which is expensive and not fair. Every player should have a level playing field, and not have an advantage or disadvantage before they even start the game. Also UCF is a free fix, which is good because more people would be willing to get into the game.
SKX44 reading/reacting. Turn around uptilt, down tilt, wave dash forward shine all will continue your combo when applied to the right di/as at the right percent.
Thanks for mentioning the %s for DI (low percent, DI up to not get up by shine; high percent, DI away). This never occurred to me but seems really obvious now!
Always love the tutorials! Especially as a new player. Personally, I think in general mods shouldn't need to be in the game but with UCF if it creates a more competitive and fair environment for any tournament then I don't see the problem aside from maybe implementing it across the board but that just takes peoples time is all.
I'm not someone who plays Melee that often, but I'm interested in watching Melee and the growth of the scene. To me, UCF seems to fix a lot of issues from vanilla Melee with almost no drawbacks. So I think if we want this community to grow even more than it already has, UCF is the next step to accomplishing that goal. It's optimal.
Finally someone who understands lmao, but I guess the argument to this is that it's for people who are learning this game little by little so they are still doing pretty bad things :/
Some good examples in this of how to creatively break combos with SDI. SDI up and down are heavily underutilized, and sideways SDI is a staple vs. Falco. SDI is useful for escaping a LOT of combos, not just Falco's. Some notable ones are: Marth's uair juggle, Falcon's uair juggle, Fox/Falco first hit uair utilt combo, etc. Also worth noting is that if you can also SDI and TDI Falco's shine to get a lot of horizontal distance which also makes it hard for him to combo. Definitely something good to practice in friendlies, especially because the timing will be different for each opponent
UCF should definitely be standard for most tournaments and definitely all nationals imo. It's puts everyone on the same playing field and ends the hunt for good controllers. All I'm sayin is if the best player (armada) fully endorses it then we should definitely use it
Yoshi's shield is the strongest shield in the game, I think it is very good because Yoshi has less to zero shield stun if you perry/power shield with Yoshi. If you miss a power shield, and you get a light shield, Yoshi can still get out of harms way when a powerful attack like a smash attack hits his shield, sending him flying across the stage. Its a good way to space with Yoshi. So even though Yoshi can't jump out of his shield, Yoshi's in shield options are not less than any other character because he has three ways out of his shield versus all other characters have two in shield options which is to jump out of, or shield grab. Yoshi, can super wave shield across the stage, and he can perry/power shield and shield grab. all though it is slow and not reliable to shield grab with Yoshi. Yoshi is invincible for a quite a few frames when you roll in his shield and he can not get hit by any move or grab a few frames of his rolling animation. I have never learned to perry with Yoshi, I think the best way to use Yoshi is to not shield as much as possible and just be aggressive with the offense of Yoshi, because that is how he is meant to be played. Someone once mentioned to me that Yoshi is a defensive character, but I think he is more offensive oriented because you can't win a game when you are always shielding your opponent's attacks so you have got to be on the approach with Yoshi. Yoshi has fast aerials, and he has some fast ground moves too, like his Down Smash and down tilt. His crouch cancel game is perhaps better than peache's and his down tilt has set knockback during any opponent's percentage.
One thing I forgot to mention is that when Yoshi is in his shield on a platform, to me I feel it is easier to shield drop with Yoshi than it is with other characters like Shiek, but that's just me, I could be wrong.
Where are the character main videos REEEEEEEEEEE PS: Good video, actually didn't know some of this. Did someone make a list of % where the downair hitstun starts to make trading hits bad?
Hey Connor, great video, but I think you should have touched on how to DI falco's shine correctly, which, combined with smash DI, makes it even easier to escape. Love the videos, peace
I don't think anyone opposes UCF on the merits. Rather, it becomes a dilemma about modding in general, and where to stop. Melee is bugged to hell. Any number of things about it would be unquestionably better if they were fixed. Horizontal ceiling glitch, falling through Pokemon stadium, IC's freeze glitch, etc. etc. If you fix anything, why not those things too? And why not adapt PAL over NTSC or vice versa? Why not rebalance things in general? Once you open the door to modding, it will eventually become increasingly difficult to justify why other stupid parts of the game are tolerated, but this isn't. There's nothing wrong with it inherently, but when mods like this have been attempted before in other games, you risk fracturing the community and creating tiny pockets of different rulesets all over the place. There's also the argument that you're sort of playing TAS Melee. And if the goal of the competitive community now is just technical execution, and not playing the game as it is, then it's highly unlikely that UCF, mild though it is, will be the end of things. Again, none of that's inherently bad. But it's a much bigger change than it seems to be on the surface.
Why stop at PAL or NTSC? Does anyone actually think a character like Ness needs the kind of end lag he has on his recovery and the ability to gimp him just by jumping into PK Thunder to not be overpowered? Does anyone think Game and Watch pressing the shield button making him a bigger target is actually necessary to keep the game balanced? Of course, changing these things wouldn't be as subtle, and Nintendo might notice. I guess they can probably stop at UCF for now because it doesn't actually impact the perceived "balance" of the game, but I feel like anyone who would object to just giving low/bottom tiers relatively insignificant buffs that don't actually make them better as much as make playing against them less of a joke is just being stubborn.
SoManySharks Congratulations, you know how to copy and paste information you don't understand from the internet. In a slippery slope fallacy, the fallacy is that you haven't demonstrated how one gets from your starting point to your conclusion. It's not a fallacy to speculate about the possible consequences of an action. This has happened twice before in the Smash community, first with Brawl+, a mod that balanced Brawl, and with PM, where subsequent patches pretty badly damaged opinion of the game after 3.02. The same has been true in other games I've played, particularly multiplayer ones, where server mods or other tweaks eventually started to split the community. And if you're thinking UCF will be the end of it, there's a post right above you suggesting it shouldn't be. Considering this post hasn't been seen by many people, I really doubt it's an uncommon sentiment.
1000g2g3g4g800999 This is what the real problem is though, and it's partially what killed Brawl and Brawl+. "Minor buffs to low tiers" won't be approved by everyone, nor what specifically gets changed. The problem becomes less about what you change, and more about that you changed it and certain people don't agree. A change doesn't even have to be that significant, as long as it fucks up an important set, or is just visibly unpopular, there will be calls to make changes to the change, and then backlash against that, etc. Once there's no definitive version of your game, you can run into problems really quickly. Forming this Melee council to decide on specific rules all important tournaments must follow is a good start to preventing that. But as soon they start making unpopular changes, or not responding to popular demand for it, certain TO's might say screw it and do their own thing, and then you have disparate top level attendance to those tournaments, making results weird, etc. I'm not saying that _will_ happen, but it's one of the dangers to opening a community like this to modding as a standard practice.
pmcdirewolf i understand where you're coming from but that seems like a bit of a disingenuous way to present the situation because it assumes that the only reason to implement ucf is to "fix something stupid about the game". i think there's one thing in particular that makes ucf different from the other qol changes you listed, and it's that ucf fixes an accessibility issue. i think at the end of the day, melee (and any competitive game, especially fighting games) ought to have as few financial limiting factors on them as possible. i think it'd be an objectively bad thing if a cash barrier to melee began to emerge simply because of its outdated handling of controllers. not everybody has the time or the money to buy multiple controllers to hunt for the right one, or make/order a custom one for themselves. ideally, in my view, anyone should be able to grab a gcc and have a competitively viable controller without needing more maintenance than some screwdrivers and cleaning supplies can provide. i'm a pm player (melee's controls are one of the smaller reasons for that) so at the end of the day i'm always gonna be a little bit removed from this debate, but sometimes i think the melee community is so conservative about modding the game just because of the implications of modding that they don't consider what they'd be modding the game for, or who'd actually benefit. the slope you're describing seems unlikely to me because i see a clear delineation between the reasons for implementing ucf and the reasons for implementing all the other things you mentioned: the latter are bug fixes, competitive tweaks, and qol changes, where the former could allow more people to play this game we love without being deterred by controller demands that only exist because of how old melee is. a glitch or a balance change can be debated as to whether they're OBJECTIVELY bad for a game, but the way i see it any aspect of a competitive game that limits its accessibility to everyone who wants to play it (especially smashers, who by and large aren't exactly super wealthy individuals) is an objective flaw. and now it's one we can fix. in my mind, that's more than a good thing--it's pretty much a no-brainer. (also, there's def a perception that the post-3.02 patches hurt opinion on the game, but basically anyone who still plays pm understands how healthy those patches were for the game. we even ran a couple 3.02 side brackets at some majors for fun and the general reply was pretty ehh. nobody wants to go back to 3.02 or thinks of it as "the fun patch" anymore. 3.6 is pretty rad lol) just my thoughts!!
I support UFC for majors. I read that a few people think of this as a slippery slope of modding the game, it has the potential to be that, but I feel it can be avoided. First off the distinction I see is modding a level playing field among controllers, that means any character patches are never standard, perfect wavedashes not standard because no controller already has better wave dash ability standard- improving wavedash ease would be changing how any player can potentially play- no bueno. The bigger reason for no modding after UFC is if the community does decide to make "improvements" we could see the likes of PM in a worse case scenario, ceise and dissist order. Nintendo already gives strained support of the community, if their was any modding more drastic than this on any large scale, the difficulty in promoting this community would be tough once again
If Falco's dair gets really stale, dairing missed tech will jab reset instead. Basically, moves doing too much damage to jab reset off of missed tech work the same as hitting someone airborne, so it's better to use a launcher if the knockback won't put them in tumble again. If the move does low enough damage to jab reset, upward knockback will allow them to act, so spikes are better. I'm fine with UCF as long as they actually keep it on consistently, but if we're willing to mod the game to make competing less of a hassle, why stop at UCF is what I wonder. Frozen stadium if it isn't banned while we're at it, balance changes if the community didn't reject the concept entirely (if it can be loaded off a memory card, it can be implemented exactly as consistently as UCF). If hitboxes are staying illegal, how about keyboards? In theory, cheaper than GC controllers anyway (and something people are more likely to have available), so we don't have to worry about some "controller mod arms race" type of deal if a potential smashbox equivalent is cheaper than any pad.
Use UCF. In my opinion it’ll get rid of the random chance that someone’s controller just performs better. If UCF makes every controller created equal, then that’s one less random factor.
UCF is a no-brainer for any majors going forward. The only argument against it (making the game less accessible to new players) is almost irrelevant, seeing how downloading Dolphin, a Melee ISO and the UCF is still infinitely easier than trying to find a controller that doesn't suck dick. I don't see why we wouldn't implement it, ever.
If you want the melee scene to grow, UCF at every tournament, not just majors, is a must. A good controller is expensive af, and still being unable to do certain things with this expensive controller due to hardware issues that are not the fault of the player's skill at all, is absolute bullshit. Especially when a good controller that CAN do these precise things is super rare and you can't tell unless you buy a shitload of them.
Yeah everyone has no patience and is trying to rush to get it at every tournament haha. Like what if there are issues with memory cards etc. and then some major like TBH or DH runs late?
Universal controller fix is fine in my opinion because it puts everybody on equal ground it doesn't matter what type of controller you have now everybody can perform these once difficult and sometimes impossible tech and everyone has the same chance of pulling it off with this mod.
UCF should be the standard but it should be up to the players to make sure it's on. Otherwise, it would be too difficult for T.O.'s to ensure that it's on.
It amazes me how badly these falco combos are done for this video and how the falco player is shown the falco can do SO much more if they have played for longer than a month if this video is followed have fun getting comboed still
and its not useful to teach someone incorrectly the point is to make players better and tournament ready but against a falco with a minimum of a month of practice this video will be useless
NXPenguinFlutist Be specific. There are some DI that falco isnt fast enough to follow up on. Place a laser where they are falling, do PP lasers for damage, and take as much stage as possible
Octavio Gonzalez Can you talk about SDI away and SDI behind from dair as a fast faller? I'm thinking run up grab and dash JC shine but there's probably better stuff
The dair hitting the missed tech having not that much hitstun happens to shine too in my experience, if you pillar a fox at about 50% they'll get knocked down by the dair and if you shine them as they miss tech they don't have that much hitstun on them. If someone knows how exactly that works it would be useful to know.
Ok totally unrelated to falco, but i need to know the answer to this question. If fox shines fox or falco and he wavedashes in to do a jab lock on their missed tech, can the fox/falco just sdi up and hit fox? thanks
What? Not use it? Why tf not? This community is so back assed man. It literally benefits everyone. If you think UCF shouldn’t be used you probably shouldn’t play.
I personally like the variety of controllers, and the almost "culture" behind them. Finding the right controller for you is kinda c00l. To just rip that away would be a bit sad. Plus it takes skill to use bad/average controllers, so that'd be taken away as well. People tend to think the controller is way more of a contributor to whether or not you can do certain tech, sure it changes how easy it is, but it's really the player's skill at play. tl;dr: No Johns.
If every controller wasn't going to break down eventually, and replacing them wasn't getting more expensive (or this wasn't reducing the rate either happened), that might seem more reasonable Vinny. As someone who is consistent with the things UCF seeks to make universally consistent, I don't care if it's any easier for everyone else, and if finicky tech-barriers are separating me from my opponent, I'm learning less from playing them because of their limitations. I also don't care if it makes it easier for them because as long as I keep playing on UCF, I get to be even sloppier with my own stuff, and I don't need to waste time checking inputs if how my slightly loose control stick is oriented isn't forcing me to change my inputs to do tech.
The more I think of it, the more your arguments are making sense. It is a waste to spend money on better controllers, and it's also harder for the upcoming players, the ones learning. I also don't want to see newbies and bad players expecting there to be UCF on every setup. To make it standard is kind of ridiculous and extremely John-sy. I know you could potentially copy UCF onto Gamecube memory cards, but 20XX still isn't as safe as Vanilla Melee at Tournaments. We've had plenty of systems crash and reset at Philly Melee tournies because they were running 20XX setups, both installed onto Wii and from memory cards. It's hard to predict what kind of impact this'll have, I do think it's worth using... but only if both players agree I'd say. If there's a discrepancy, neither players use a UCF setup.
i dont get this, you guys are "arguing" about why UCF is beneficial or should be legal but are agreeing that it should be legal? lol i dont see whos disagreeing, you like the idea but are against it but than your for it and than against it
as someone who has invested a ton of time and money into finding a decent controller and getting nothing to show for it im all for ucf. current controller is the best one i have and it has 60+ failed dash back. also i cant do turn around lasers alot of the time.
"Even if you SDI super hard" ehm, this might sound liek a noobish question, but what does that even mean? I thought that you either SDI or you don't. Are you telling me there are different levels/layers of SDI'ing? That I can sdi a little or more as I please? :o
SDI inputs are one input for each frame of hit lag. Using the c stick automatically inputs sdi during the last 1 frame of hit lag. That's why it's called automatic smash di. If you use the c stick, then hit the control stick in a direction, you could get more than 1. That's double stick di. And if you use the c stick, and do the control stick thing where you rub it back and forth against the groove of the controller, you could get much more. So in short, yeah you could smash di super hard or super little.
Dammit! Now i have to read di and execute based on said di? But I hate thinking as a falco player! Oh well I'll just stick to laser camping and auto cancelling back air I guess
Oh no
Top ten anime plot twists
Your fucked now Blue Chicken
Oof
Just don't dair so high and don't approach with dair like a dummy or even at all until they just don't expect it; nair still exists, and you can just keep shining at low percent until mid percent.
Are you ready to get *rekt?*
UCF is the perfect balance between Hax's mod and vanilla Melee. I think it needs to be implement at all majors.
You were extremely correct.
@@lucaswoods9299 nah we need 1.03 or better rules for alternate controllers, things suck rn
shh delete this
Delet dis
You have to know where you’re at? Sounds familiar......
WHERE ARE YOU AT?
Poor Zhu
HAPPY FEET!
I've dealt with my fair share of Controllers and the problems they can have so UCF is a cool thing for majors in my opinion.
I personally like the variety of controllers, and the almost "culture" behind them. Finding the right controller for you is kinda c00l. To just rip that away would be a bit sad. Plus it takes skill to use bad/average controllers, so that'd be taken away as well. People tend to think the controller is way more of a contributor to whether or not you can do certain tech, sure it changes how easy it is, but it's really the player's skill at play.
tl;dr: No Johns.
@@VinnytotheK yea but controller discrepancies are a valid complaint. Getting a good controller is really hard, and is a big reason why newer players feel as if they can never play competitively without getting a perfect one, which is expensive and not fair.
Every player should have a level playing field, and not have an advantage or disadvantage before they even start the game. Also UCF is a free fix, which is good because more people would be willing to get into the game.
If the University of Central Florida would make all controllers function properly, I'm all for it.
Delete this video asap
-Falco
Delete this
Delet this
But what if I'm the asshole doing the combos
SKX44 reading/reacting. Turn around uptilt, down tilt, wave dash forward shine all will continue your combo when applied to the right di/as at the right percent.
Take adderal, become a bearded hermit with glasses, or just become a drunk mario kart steamer.
UCF should definitely become standard, I think you're crazy if you value the controller arms race in the name of purity
As upset as I am about the chu leffen incident, I think UCF is a good thing and should be used at every major tournament
Thanks for mentioning the %s for DI (low percent, DI up to not get up by shine; high percent, DI away). This never occurred to me but seems really obvious now!
UCF is a amazing, i'd love to see it become the norm
Always love the tutorials! Especially as a new player.
Personally, I think in general mods shouldn't need to be in the game but with UCF if it creates a more competitive and fair environment for any tournament then I don't see the problem aside from maybe implementing it across the board but that just takes peoples time is all.
I'm not someone who plays Melee that often, but I'm interested in watching Melee and the growth of the scene.
To me, UCF seems to fix a lot of issues from vanilla Melee with almost no drawbacks. So I think if we want this community to grow even more than it already has, UCF is the next step to accomplishing that goal.
It's optimal.
that's why you practice low dairs and not high dairs
the counter to the counter wut thats too deep for me
Finally someone who understands lmao, but I guess the argument to this is that it's for people who are learning this game little by little so they are still doing pretty bad things :/
Some good examples in this of how to creatively break combos with SDI. SDI up and down are heavily underutilized, and sideways SDI is a staple vs. Falco.
SDI is useful for escaping a LOT of combos, not just Falco's. Some notable ones are: Marth's uair juggle, Falcon's uair juggle, Fox/Falco first hit uair utilt combo, etc. Also worth noting is that if you can also SDI and TDI Falco's shine to get a lot of horizontal distance which also makes it hard for him to combo.
Definitely something good to practice in friendlies, especially because the timing will be different for each opponent
I'm with UCF for sure
UCF should absolutely be used in all majors. It increases consistency in an area players can't really control.
The mod is a must for tournaments now in general.
I'm bad enough at Melee! This is the final nail in my coffin!
lol dude you're just making my falco less viable
LIKE IT EVER WAS VIABLE LUL
I mean not really
He is still very viable my friend
yeah dude, stop complaining you got lazers and a spike. Plus a good f smash.
Where has this been all my life?
UCF should definitely be standard for most tournaments and definitely all nationals imo. It's puts everyone on the same playing field and ends the hunt for good controllers. All I'm sayin is if the best player (armada) fully endorses it then we should definitely use it
rip bird
Of course! UCF is fantastic!
Yoshi's shield is the strongest shield in the game, I think it is very good because Yoshi has less to zero shield stun if you perry/power shield with Yoshi. If you miss a power shield, and you get a light shield, Yoshi can still get out of harms way when a powerful attack like a smash attack hits his shield, sending him flying across the stage. Its a good way to space with Yoshi. So even though Yoshi can't jump out of his shield, Yoshi's in shield options are not less than any other character because he has three ways out of his shield versus all other characters have two in shield options which is to jump out of, or shield grab. Yoshi, can super wave shield across the stage, and he can perry/power shield and shield grab. all though it is slow and not reliable to shield grab with Yoshi. Yoshi is invincible for a quite a few frames when you roll in his shield and he can not get hit by any move or grab a few frames of his rolling animation. I have never learned to perry with Yoshi, I think the best way to use Yoshi is to not shield as much as possible and just be aggressive with the offense of Yoshi, because that is how he is meant to be played. Someone once mentioned to me that Yoshi is a defensive character, but I think he is more offensive oriented because you can't win a game when you are always shielding your opponent's attacks so you have got to be on the approach with Yoshi. Yoshi has fast aerials, and he has some fast ground moves too, like his Down Smash and down tilt. His crouch cancel game is perhaps better than peache's and his down tilt has set knockback during any opponent's percentage.
One thing I forgot to mention is that when Yoshi is in his shield on a platform, to me I feel it is easier to shield drop with Yoshi than it is with other characters like Shiek, but that's just me, I could be wrong.
I can't believe you've done this
I fink juicy f is very gud
Bryce Griffin I understood that reference.
wow this is stupid helpful thank you sm
Delet this
Where are the character main videos REEEEEEEEEEE
PS: Good video, actually didn't know some of this. Did someone make a list of % where the downair hitstun starts to make trading hits bad?
Amazing video. Especially the second half.
Hey Connor, great video, but I think you should have touched on how to DI falco's shine correctly, which, combined with smash DI, makes it even easier to escape. Love the videos, peace
great video connor
I don't think anyone opposes UCF on the merits. Rather, it becomes a dilemma about modding in general, and where to stop.
Melee is bugged to hell. Any number of things about it would be unquestionably better if they were fixed. Horizontal ceiling glitch, falling through Pokemon stadium, IC's freeze glitch, etc. etc.
If you fix anything, why not those things too? And why not adapt PAL over NTSC or vice versa? Why not rebalance things in general?
Once you open the door to modding, it will eventually become increasingly difficult to justify why other stupid parts of the game are tolerated, but this isn't.
There's nothing wrong with it inherently, but when mods like this have been attempted before in other games, you risk fracturing the community and creating tiny pockets of different rulesets all over the place.
There's also the argument that you're sort of playing TAS Melee. And if the goal of the competitive community now is just technical execution, and not playing the game as it is, then it's highly unlikely that UCF, mild though it is, will be the end of things.
Again, none of that's inherently bad. But it's a much bigger change than it seems to be on the surface.
Why stop at PAL or NTSC? Does anyone actually think a character like Ness needs the kind of end lag he has on his recovery and the ability to gimp him just by jumping into PK Thunder to not be overpowered? Does anyone think Game and Watch pressing the shield button making him a bigger target is actually necessary to keep the game balanced?
Of course, changing these things wouldn't be as subtle, and Nintendo might notice.
I guess they can probably stop at UCF for now because it doesn't actually impact the perceived "balance" of the game, but I feel like anyone who would object to just giving low/bottom tiers relatively insignificant buffs that don't actually make them better as much as make playing against them less of a joke is just being stubborn.
slippery slope fallacy
SoManySharks Congratulations, you know how to copy and paste information you don't understand from the internet.
In a slippery slope fallacy, the fallacy is that you haven't demonstrated how one gets from your starting point to your conclusion. It's not a fallacy to speculate about the possible consequences of an action.
This has happened twice before in the Smash community, first with Brawl+, a mod that balanced Brawl, and with PM, where subsequent patches pretty badly damaged opinion of the game after 3.02. The same has been true in other games I've played, particularly multiplayer ones, where server mods or other tweaks eventually started to split the community.
And if you're thinking UCF will be the end of it, there's a post right above you suggesting it shouldn't be. Considering this post hasn't been seen by many people, I really doubt it's an uncommon sentiment.
1000g2g3g4g800999 This is what the real problem is though, and it's partially what killed Brawl and Brawl+. "Minor buffs to low tiers" won't be approved by everyone, nor what specifically gets changed.
The problem becomes less about what you change, and more about that you changed it and certain people don't agree. A change doesn't even have to be that significant, as long as it fucks up an important set, or is just visibly unpopular, there will be calls to make changes to the change, and then backlash against that, etc.
Once there's no definitive version of your game, you can run into problems really quickly.
Forming this Melee council to decide on specific rules all important tournaments must follow is a good start to preventing that. But as soon they start making unpopular changes, or not responding to popular demand for it, certain TO's might say screw it and do their own thing, and then you have disparate top level attendance to those tournaments, making results weird, etc.
I'm not saying that _will_ happen, but it's one of the dangers to opening a community like this to modding as a standard practice.
pmcdirewolf i understand where you're coming from but that seems like a bit of a disingenuous way to present the situation because it assumes that the only reason to implement ucf is to "fix something stupid about the game". i think there's one thing in particular that makes ucf different from the other qol changes you listed, and it's that ucf fixes an accessibility issue. i think at the end of the day, melee (and any competitive game, especially fighting games) ought to have as few financial limiting factors on them as possible. i think it'd be an objectively bad thing if a cash barrier to melee began to emerge simply because of its outdated handling of controllers. not everybody has the time or the money to buy multiple controllers to hunt for the right one, or make/order a custom one for themselves. ideally, in my view, anyone should be able to grab a gcc and have a competitively viable controller without needing more maintenance than some screwdrivers and cleaning supplies can provide.
i'm a pm player (melee's controls are one of the smaller reasons for that) so at the end of the day i'm always gonna be a little bit removed from this debate, but sometimes i think the melee community is so conservative about modding the game just because of the implications of modding that they don't consider what they'd be modding the game for, or who'd actually benefit. the slope you're describing seems unlikely to me because i see a clear delineation between the reasons for implementing ucf and the reasons for implementing all the other things you mentioned: the latter are bug fixes, competitive tweaks, and qol changes, where the former could allow more people to play this game we love without being deterred by controller demands that only exist because of how old melee is. a glitch or a balance change can be debated as to whether they're OBJECTIVELY bad for a game, but the way i see it any aspect of a competitive game that limits its accessibility to everyone who wants to play it (especially smashers, who by and large aren't exactly super wealthy individuals) is an objective flaw. and now it's one we can fix. in my mind, that's more than a good thing--it's pretty much a no-brainer.
(also, there's def a perception that the post-3.02 patches hurt opinion on the game, but basically anyone who still plays pm understands how healthy those patches were for the game. we even ran a couple 3.02 side brackets at some majors for fun and the general reply was pretty ehh. nobody wants to go back to 3.02 or thinks of it as "the fun patch" anymore. 3.6 is pretty rad lol)
just my thoughts!!
I support UFC for majors. I read that a few people think of this as a slippery slope of modding the game, it has the potential to be that, but I feel it can be avoided. First off the distinction I see is modding a level playing field among controllers, that means any character patches are never standard, perfect wavedashes not standard because no controller already has better wave dash ability standard- improving wavedash ease would be changing how any player can potentially play- no bueno. The bigger reason for no modding after UFC is if the community does decide to make "improvements" we could see the likes of PM in a worse case scenario, ceise and dissist order. Nintendo already gives strained support of the community, if their was any modding more drastic than this on any large scale, the difficulty in promoting this community would be tough once again
Very very very helpful been needing some help on this match up badly
If Falco's dair gets really stale, dairing missed tech will jab reset instead. Basically, moves doing too much damage to jab reset off of missed tech work the same as hitting someone airborne, so it's better to use a launcher if the knockback won't put them in tumble again. If the move does low enough damage to jab reset, upward knockback will allow them to act, so spikes are better.
I'm fine with UCF as long as they actually keep it on consistently, but if we're willing to mod the game to make competing less of a hassle, why stop at UCF is what I wonder. Frozen stadium if it isn't banned while we're at it, balance changes if the community didn't reject the concept entirely (if it can be loaded off a memory card, it can be implemented exactly as consistently as UCF).
If hitboxes are staying illegal, how about keyboards? In theory, cheaper than GC controllers anyway (and something people are more likely to have available), so we don't have to worry about some "controller mod arms race" type of deal if a potential smashbox equivalent is cheaper than any pad.
Use UCF. In my opinion it’ll get rid of the random chance that someone’s controller just performs better. If UCF makes every controller created equal, then that’s one less random factor.
Awesome video, super intuitive
I play puff well and still relate to this good video
4:05 and then hax made an entire video about these airborne frames of mids tech years later lol
UCF is a no-brainer for any majors going forward. The only argument against it (making the game less accessible to new players) is almost irrelevant, seeing how downloading Dolphin, a Melee ISO and the UCF is still infinitely easier than trying to find a controller that doesn't suck dick. I don't see why we wouldn't implement it, ever.
If you want the melee scene to grow, UCF at every tournament, not just majors, is a must. A good controller is expensive af, and still being unable to do certain things with this expensive controller due to hardware issues that are not the fault of the player's skill at all, is absolute bullshit. Especially when a good controller that CAN do these precise things is super rare and you can't tell unless you buy a shitload of them.
I think using mods will be a good idea because it will help players focus more on getting their next move
ucf is great
but I think there should be some sort of signal its on when your playing, so Chu vs leffen doesn't happen again
All for UCF
I think UCF should be the standard, but we need to give it a little more time for people to get used to, and to get it situated in local tourneys.
Yeah everyone has no patience and is trying to rush to get it at every tournament haha. Like what if there are issues with memory cards etc. and then some major like TBH or DH runs late?
If you're Falcon, you need to SDI straight up almost always.
Universal controller fix is fine in my opinion because it puts everybody on equal ground it doesn't matter what type of controller you have now everybody can perform these once difficult and sometimes impossible tech and everyone has the same chance of pulling it off with this mod.
I ques cdk just took over... Rip kira
they explained it a few videos ago, unfortunately idr which one but kira said his (not permanent) goodbyes
*plays puff*
other characters have combos?
Lmao you want him to make a vid on how to up throw rest 😂😂
THANK GOD
I'd appreciate it, if you would STOP telling people how to deal with my main.
Seriously can we have some Kirby guides? Like “everything about kirbycide” or something. I feel so left out being a Kirby main.
As if life weren't hard enough for Falcos
Lee no fuck off falco is the literal devil and also is easy to play
UCF ? imo should be replayed.
UCF should be the standard but it should be up to the players to make sure it's on. Otherwise, it would be too difficult for T.O.'s to ensure that it's on.
This is amazing! Thanks a lot!
very helpful!
I play falco and im only watching this because ill know what people will be trying to do when im pillaring
You gonna finish your tier list?
As a Falco main, I'm a bit salty this video came out lmao
Max Islas Why tho. Is it bcuz ur gonna actually have to think? Lol
Is there some sort of spread sheet illustrating the percent at which different dairs will knock down various characters?
It amazes me how badly these falco combos are done for this video and how the falco player is shown the falco can do SO much more if they have played for longer than a month if this video is followed have fun getting comboed still
TragicGameplay If you've been playing for a long time you don't need TH-cam to teach you lol video is obviously for beginners
and its not useful to teach someone incorrectly the point is to make players better and tournament ready but against a falco with a minimum of a month of practice this video will be useless
How can falco continue to follow up after these sdi options? New falco here lol
NXPenguinFlutist Be specific. There are some DI that falco isnt fast enough to follow up on. Place a laser where they are falling, do PP lasers for damage, and take as much stage as possible
Octavio Gonzalez Can you talk about SDI away and SDI behind from dair as a fast faller? I'm thinking run up grab and dash JC shine but there's probably better stuff
ucf evens the playing field controller-wise
Upload that tier list boi
How can Kira say that Falco is so close to becoming the best character in the game when this channel is constantly giving us tips to counter him?
The dair hitting the missed tech having not that much hitstun happens to shine too in my experience, if you pillar a fox at about 50% they'll get knocked down by the dair and if you shine them as they miss tech they don't have that much hitstun on them. If someone knows how exactly that works it would be useful to know.
this gonna trigger all the falco mains 😂😂😂😂😂
Ok totally unrelated to falco, but i need to know the answer to this question. If fox shines fox or falco and he wavedashes in to do a jab lock on their missed tech, can the fox/falco just sdi up and hit fox? thanks
Tams
Not sure about fox but I'm pretty Falco can always SDI fox's jab and pop up.
What? Not use it? Why tf not? This community is so back assed man. It literally benefits everyone. If you think UCF shouldn’t be used you probably shouldn’t play.
UCF is a must for all majors now. Only Pro's, no Con's
Walton Simons comments anyways and says something cancerous WutFace CmonBruh, massive K E K 4Head Kappa
I personally like the variety of controllers, and the almost "culture" behind them. Finding the right controller for you is kinda c00l. To just rip that away would be a bit sad. Plus it takes skill to use bad/average controllers, so that'd be taken away as well. People tend to think the controller is way more of a contributor to whether or not you can do certain tech, sure it changes how easy it is, but it's really the player's skill at play.
tl;dr: No Johns.
If every controller wasn't going to break down eventually, and replacing them wasn't getting more expensive (or this wasn't reducing the rate either happened), that might seem more reasonable Vinny.
As someone who is consistent with the things UCF seeks to make universally consistent, I don't care if it's any easier for everyone else, and if finicky tech-barriers are separating me from my opponent, I'm learning less from playing them because of their limitations. I also don't care if it makes it easier for them because as long as I keep playing on UCF, I get to be even sloppier with my own stuff, and I don't need to waste time checking inputs if how my slightly loose control stick is oriented isn't forcing me to change my inputs to do tech.
The more I think of it, the more your arguments are making sense. It is a waste to spend money on better controllers, and it's also harder for the upcoming players, the ones learning. I also don't want to see newbies and bad players expecting there to be UCF on every setup. To make it standard is kind of ridiculous and extremely John-sy. I know you could potentially copy UCF onto Gamecube memory cards, but 20XX still isn't as safe as Vanilla Melee at Tournaments. We've had plenty of systems crash and reset at Philly Melee tournies because they were running 20XX setups, both installed onto Wii and from memory cards. It's hard to predict what kind of impact this'll have, I do think it's worth using... but only if both players agree I'd say. If there's a discrepancy, neither players use a UCF setup.
i dont get this, you guys are "arguing" about why UCF is beneficial or should be legal but are agreeing that it should be legal? lol i dont see whos disagreeing, you like the idea but are against it but than your for it and than against it
as someone who has invested a ton of time and money into finding a decent controller and getting nothing to show for it im all for ucf. current controller is the best one i have and it has 60+ failed dash back. also i cant do turn around lasers alot of the time.
"Even if you SDI super hard" ehm, this might sound liek a noobish question, but what does that even mean? I thought that you either SDI or you don't. Are you telling me there are different levels/layers of SDI'ing? That I can sdi a little or more as I please? :o
SDI inputs are one input for each frame of hit lag.
Using the c stick automatically inputs sdi during the last 1 frame of hit lag.
That's why it's called automatic smash di.
If you use the c stick, then hit the control stick in a direction, you could get more than 1. That's double stick di.
And if you use the c stick, and do the control stick thing where you rub it back and forth against the groove of the controller, you could get much more.
So in short, yeah you could smash di super hard or super little.
good question: where am i at?... oh my god
Bayo combos or falco pillar?
Melee is modded at tournaments?
bombsoldier didnt invent pillar combos. every shitty falco figured it out immediately. they were a staple of falco tournament play as early as 2002.
What's with the audio?
UCF should be standard.
I love shelds, they protect me
Lol the santi tag
I'm in for UCF, it's only reasonable to use it.
S A N T I A G O
QUIZ: Name a low tier that would benefit with fox's recovery
Falco.
UCF has to be adapted. They aren't making GameCube controllers anymore and these things only get worse as you use them!!
UCF should become a global standard
Rip bombsoilder
Dammit! Now i have to read di and execute based on said di? But I hate thinking as a falco player! Oh well I'll just stick to laser camping and auto cancelling back air I guess
UCF doesn't alter any characters and the controller lottery is ridiculous. It should be standard.
Waiting for "Are you a Yoshi player?"
Where you at... i see what you did there good job
now i just gotta get gud at SDI
my friend is so screwed now
i think sometimes that he may not have actually been a doctor at all and
Ucf please
Conner really doesn't care for falco does he
Dammit shhh don't give away the secret
WHERES KIRA