Another idea on fixing the hull and moving to a cheaper place: consider putting temporary hull patches on the hull, get it to float, and then move it to a cheaper place, then remove the temporary patches, and fix the hull correctly. That may save you even more money. Good luck!
@@rumplestiltskin1 was is Guatemala ?... surprised how cheap it was especially labor which would allow you to speed up the process. Problem i guess is that you would need to motor a heck of a long way ! so maybe somewhere cheap on the east coast where you have an exit plan if a passage goes wrong.
@@DRB68 They're doing the work themselves so really somewhere in the US thats accessible by water from where they currently are with ready access to materials, an ability to remove the cat from the water and low rent...
New engines, drives and generator are the way to go. I also agree with some of the other comments to get the boat temporarily patched and tow it to a more conducive repair facility. The price per day will start to create stress as you proceed through the project and may affect your repair decisions in the future. We all like to believe we can predict our near term future but things will happen. Just like offshore travel, plan to have the best trip and best weather but prepare for the worst. Good luck and looking forward to watching your new adventure.
What if you could fix the hull damage and make her seaworthy and tow her off to a more suitable location to save some $$ in storage. You have a big road ahead that will give you some set backs and unforeseen delays. That storage rate could be a budget wrecker. At any rate. Best of luck and I will keep posted in anticipation of the start of the repair process.
Have to agree with Bryan. Would first get her to float and then look at a less expensive yard to repair interiors, otherwise the yard bill at $250 a day may break you as the time line is unknown. Wishing you all the best.
a year in a shed would be 91k...compare to a patch job to be float her and a 400 mile tow ..and if they can find a DIY yard big enough to haul her out...the numbers even with new engines and a year in the shed...75k for a slush fund still keeps them at 500k
Personally I would replace everything new, engines, generator. At $250 storage, you will unlikely be financially worse off, however what is the lead time on receiving those parts? You guys are legends. All your followers would probably like 2 hour weekly episodes (only kidding, I know the videos take a long time to produce) but don’t underestimate how much your followers would like longer videos as you are really good at producing them.This is going to be really interesting to watch. Good luck guys.
get new engines and sell the old blocks. Get them out of the boat and do the salvage work elsewhere to avoid more mess in the boat. You will have better control over your budget and end result
Thanks for being so open about your plan and associated costs. I would definitely replace your engines etc with new ones. As some have said below, you can recover some of the cost by selling your original engines to help lesson the blow of the cost of new. The amount of time you would have spent on trying to repair the old can then be invested in other important areas of repair. I've always tried sticking to the mantra - if you're going to do it, do it right - the first time. (only my input, as it's not my money! lol Looking forward to whatever decision you make)
Having fixed and Irma Boat (Pajot Saba 50) , that had ONLY exhaust water inversion from flipping upside down NOT being under water. After dewatering and cleanup, we ran the engines over 1500 miles to bring the vessel from Mobile Alabama to Cincinnati via the Tenn tom waterway. Once on the hard and in repair process I removed and opened up the motor that had the most water in it from the onset.. it was devastating to see the corrosion on everything, the crank, the inside of the block, the oil pan it was all corroding even after 3-4 oil changes and 1500 miles of running. remembering not under water just exhaust can water inversion. The most surprising was the turbo hot side and wastegate, completely corroded, shocked we made the trip probably over-boosting the whole time.... So a phone call to Trans Atlantic Diesel and 2 new Volvo Pentas were ordered up with new wiring and Gauge sets... long story to short....Cost benefit analysis says invest your time in the hull repairs and electrical systems and wait for the new engines and saildrives to arrive. Remove the wet ones and sell them as cores to one of the many rebuilders in south Florida or even Trans Atlantic themselves. Go for the peace of mind of new motors, if you keep the thing you can rest easy knowing when the going gets rough and you have to motor, they will ready for you no matter what. If you sell the vessel is a no brainer the new owners would almost insist the motors be new even if it goes straight into charter. 1 vote for new!! BTW I admire your tenacity and You 3 have some serious skills love it! Shape templates of the port hull bottom to build a quick mold for the piece to fix the Stb hull bottom. I watched a few guys fix a new Nautitech down in the BVI had 30' of bottom missing just like yours.. It was really no big deal after I saw the method ! Hopefully you can order keels, those are some serious thick Layups beyond what can practically reproduced.. Awesome project! Geoff is cool Dude, met Him in a harbor down in the BVI also down around Irma time, he had half a dozen lagoons he salvaged with Husky and was selling. He teamed up with the parlay revival guys on a couple cats also..
@@rogerkerkmann They were exposed to air the entire time the boat was flipped and subsequently being worked on to get out of the BVI.. approx 7 months I get the entire concept behind no oxygen no corrosion... they emptied the engines and now the timer starts... how long before Engine control units and wiring harness is can be put in place with a clean fuel system so that they can be run right up to temperature and oil changed a few times. I am completely of the mindset that everything is salvageable, however given the cost of being in the yard and the benefit of all new it just makes more sense to go all new...
On a bit more of a technical incentive on replacing the engines and such - way back when - in my college days, we were investigating failures of metal wheels. Using an electron microscope we found that within hours of exposing most metals to a salt bath they were completely engulfed in corrosion at a molecular level. No form of cleaning and surface wiping would remove the corrosion which also creates micro pits and higher abrasion. The only way to fix it was to mechanically remove the corroded layer(machining, sanding, etc.) Without this removal process the corrosion continues to spread any time oxygen is present.
I live in your area and it seems to me you could rent available warehouses space and truck the boat out off the marina. 250 USD per day is significant. I suspect a warehouse space will be a better value.
Your engines have value. Keep it for parts, sell as is or part it out. Buy all new. The time you save can be spent on the hull in the building. This will get you out of there sooner.
Try getting a hold of Just Catamarans, I believe they can get the laminate, because they do custom cabinetry and interiors for leopards. As far as the engines go, I would pull them out, you have to for new engines anyways, and pull the oil pans off them to check the internals. If you see any rust, I'd go with new engines, because you'll never know where else that rust is. Oil journals, bearings, etc. If they look good, then I'd consider pulling the fuel lines and injectors, draining all the fluids, putting the injectors back in and starting them with fresh diesel and some diesel kleen. Run em for an hour and then listen for any weird noises/ticks. That MAY save you a ton of $$. Again, if you've got any second thoughts, go with new and get a warranty. Pulling the engines will also reduce the weight/load on the fiberglass that you're going to have to cut out and repair. May save you additional damage/repairs to the boat, plus help you keep the hulls straight.
In a previous episode you discussed living on the Leopard. If that’s the case I would recommend purchasing new engines and drives. You’ve already proven you can convert to solar so I’d do the same for this vessel. As far as the old engines, hang on to them and rebuild at your convenience when parts become available. Your next salvage job (3rd) may require only engines. Since your “in business” there may be tax advantages to think of as well.
Huge fan of what ocean volt is doing in the multi-hull space. Own a 2005 leopard 40 that has an engine needs rebuilt and the other probably just because it’s twin is on the way out. If you’re doing as much work as you are, might be easier and cheaper in the long run to go with an electric drive system with solar and a backup generator.
Yes I agree cut your losses and get new because you could have mysterious problems, due to the boat being pickled. Sometimes electrical issues with connections and making sure everything is running properly again can hunt you for the rest of the boats life. Very interesting channel really enjoy your content thank you again for the great videos!
No questions, buy the new engines. You have enough on your plate as it is. It'll allow you to focus on getting her watertight and could help you get out of the pricey yard quicker to finish repairs elsewhere. Best of luck
I deal with Ebay all the time. The issue is time and money about the engines and sail drives. If you can sell the parts for good money and the time to install new equipment is a better known, I vote replace everything. Piece of mind and having good warranties is priceless.
Another new engine vote, presuming you can fund whole project. It's easier, and leaves the ability to recoup from selling the old. It will save time in parts gathering too. Construct hulls, install engines... then make passage to cheaper yard for remaining work... heck, even wait for final painting... until in a yard more conducive and affordable.
I would go for the new engines... Those engines will have to be completely rebuilt... All the way down to the crank. That will be a lot of work and if you miss anything in there it could be disastrous. You have bigger fish to fry... The hull will be a huge project and replacing all the electronics and electrical will be a big thing. You will probably be somewhere around 500K when done and you are so not going to want any gremlins cropping up from the propulsion and generator (I bet that is completely trashed). Maybe even add big alternators and ditch the genny... Save weight and dough. Whatever you decide we'll be here to watch. Good luck :). This will be an epic project! F
Amazing what you guys are taking on and what projects you have done in the past and are capable of doing in coming months/years. Hard work, organizational skills, creativity, and problem solving, is a killer combination and your team has it all going on! As the saying goes “It’s the Indian, not the arrow”😉.
I am excited to see this new build, just so you know, i love the talking head stuff. Very informative! To answer your question, just buy new engines and sail drives. Having warranties will give you peace of mind down the road. My biggest concern is 250 a day. wouldn't it make sense to repair the hull, make her seaworthy and tow her to a DIY yard then repair everything else? Just wondering. I am also wondering what yourlong term plan is, are you gonna live aboard the new vessel and sell Dauntless? if so what is her value?
What a mind blowing project you’ve got guys! I love your spirit and I’m sure that you can you do it! Engines... well if I am going to buy this cat the old engines are kind of a deal breaker for me. I mean some salt water for sure has entered in the combustion chambers through the exhaust valves. Even if it’s a little corrosion there is a risk that won’t last longer. Probably the best solution is the engines. For any structural repairs I think it would be great if you can sketch on CAD the damage and the repair plan ( material and techniques) and send those to the manufacture for expertise and recommendations. That would give another look at the all project from DIY to something more professional as well can help you to sell the boat easier for higher price. The all project management is quite time consuming and painful but ones is done makes the picture much brighter. The only advice I can give you is do not let haters and negative opinions to affect you. You are the one deciding what is possible/right and what not. I can’t wait to see more videos from you!
You guys are great!! Love your tenacity! Buy the new engines, it will cut time spent + warranty on new, is a definite +. I would sell the old motors, "as is" OR take them somewhere (that has a better rate of storage fees), where you can work on them at your "leisure", not that you have leisure time...at the moment. Best wishes ❤ & looking forward watching your progress 😀
Great news that Leopard will talk. If you can get the radius of the bulkheads. You could have lower sections cut to size and bond in to give you the hull shape. Anything can be fixed, it’s just up to your skill set and $$$🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼🤟🏼🇦🇺. “ You can do it!!! Yeah”.
1- Go dive on wreck and try to locate the sail drive. If you can’t find the sail drive, see option 2. 2 - buy new ones. Would be awesome if Leopard would pop a section of the hull you need from their molds!! Win Win!!! Don’t forget that Barefoot Sailing Doctors had their Leopard 50 just burn to water. Find them hulls and pop your molds from them b4 the cut them up.
Considering they've been sitting with salt water in them with air space. I myself would replace them. Then I would then refurbish them and then sell them.
Since rehabbing the engines takes time,go with new engines and sail drives,it gets you back floating sooner! Good luck,thanks for bringing us with you on this adventure
Plus NEW engines come with Warrantees and reliability and the last thing you want in a vessel as land slips down under the horizon is engine problems because you missed something while refurbishing an engine.
👍☑️ I agree with Tim, new engine’s and sell the old ones and if’s it’s possible temporary patch and crank up those new engines and move to a more reasonable place.
I've read most of the comments. I can't add anything more than what's already been said. A lot of good advice. Have fun. Don't put anymore stress on your selves than you already have.
If you can afford the new engine/saildrive sets without greatly impacting your budget, go with new. The old can be sold, parted out, given to a good need, etc. All the best!
For $250 a day, I pop new engines in so that you can be working on the rest of the boat while you are waiting for the engines to be installed. The refurbishment of the old engines will take significant time, AND take you away from doing other work. I really feel for you undertaking this repair. I agree with other comments below about moving the boat to a cheaper yard. The long term benefits could be worth it, BUT you may have to forego working in the luxury of the shade of the shed! Best of luck to you!
I would think about taking a different approach. Yes, it will be more expensive but far shorter time and hassle. I also think it would massively add to the resale value and likely insurability. Remember, your end buyer is wealthy and does not want a DIY repair job. General comments about approach: - contact Leopard and/or Just Catamarans about getting SOME of the design specs for the Boat, including electrical layout, bit of hull in CAD that needs fixing, production materials to ensure consistency, finishing techniques, etc. See if you can order as many spare parts as you need from them as well. Bulk order will reduce shipping costs. Order soonish and hopefully have the hull done when parts turn up. - replace engines, gen and wiring. Again, I think it will take >$50k off you boat value if you don't replace wiring. People don't want the risk, hassle of constant electrical problems ... which will happen if not changed out. - consider staying at park and accelerating timeline with above strategies. If the $250 included ability to borrow tools, the odd worker (extra pair of hands), specialist tools and advice on occasion, then I reckon the deal is not a bad one. You can spend hours and hours trying to become an expert on every area, only to get it wrong and cause more time and cost. There is a reason the experts at the boat yard were treating it as a write-off.
By all means, buy the new generator and engines. The old ones are saleable as damaged, or parts and pieces. You may not need a generator if you go solar like Dauntless. Just a thought?
I would say when all said and done 650K - 750K if you can do it within 1 year. other option is get it floatable once hall is sealed and engines run so you can move it to a more affordable diy yard.
I agree with you Bob, like I commented in the last video there the cost and the effort will slowly creep up to get close to a new boat , adding ro the fact that there is NO WAY this boat will ever be the same again . The point of this story is, never buy a sunken boat if you have a choice.
Hi folks I'm a retired Deisel Fuel Injection Fitter. I would lean toward new units, but, your old units are likely to be sold for good money in that you will probably get new units for the repair of your "old" inits' cost of repair. If you follow my convoluted thinking! You are gutsy, for sure, and I'll look forward to following your adventure. As the French would say "Bon Chance".
engines and sail drives for $50k is a big win, throw the old units in storage and fix them later to recoup $30K, you are basically into glass work, so if you have a good plan there are thousands of qualified composite folks that can help if need be. Other components you can do the same thing, replace with new, store the almost new and repair if possible at a later date. You have the ability to do this, enjoy!
Buy the new engines, if you are going to sell the boat once it's done this will remove a lot of questions from the buyers. You can then sell the old engines on and make some of the money back. Also, get it watertight ASAP and move it to somewhere with more sensible fees.
I'm more interested in the solar/energy change. Maybe a 100kWh bank with dual quattro's this time? If so what about an Oceanvolt setup for propulsion and perhaps a slightly larger generator set rather than new diesel engines?
I'd like to know how much the electric motor and batteries would cost. but definitely would get a new generator, you can run the generator and run the motors all day.
I don't know how you could make any decisions about anything mechanical without opening everything up. I helped a buddy in Rhode Island, strip down his engine after his fishing boat sank. It had been under for more than a week before he could get the help to drag it up and out. We drained the engine and dropped the oil pan. Pulled the valve cover and pump off the top end and cleaned everything the best we could. Then with an oil pump from a small block chevy and some fancy fittings, we pumped fresh oil through the entire engines oil passages. Collected all the oil draining out, we saw very little water left in the engine. But this gave everything a fresh coat of oil!! Then went to the cooling system and simply pumped fresh water through so we would be able to say if we found any salt water left anywhere. Never did and we put the engine back together and ran it in the shop with a garden hose and it was perfect!! About 8 years after I got out of the Navy a friend called me and told me he had died. My buddy told me he always told people about when it sank and me talking him into pulling it apart. That boat and engine were still in use by his sons after that!! Spending 50K on a new set of NEW ENGINES = Crazy. Spending a little time and a few bucks and possibly saving 50K = Well, not quite priceless, but $$$50K!!!!!!
I agree with T even if you overhaul all the mechanical you will more than likely have problems down the road as a ex naval mechanic go with the new and have peace of mind
Thanks for your candidness and transparency! It helps folks truly understand the breadth of the project and the time abd money that's necessary . The immense physical work is daunting and the financial burden could be soul crushing but y'all seem to have the grit, teamwork, and persistence to pull it off. Kudos and best wishes!
On second thought. Replace your power plants get your hulls water tight and rig a temporary VHF RIG. Get yourself to a yard where you can DIY and your daily rate is reasonable.
I was surprised to see led acid batteries in a $1.2MM vessel. The question has to be, install solar (serious amount), lose the generator entirely, lithium iron phosphate batteries, and reduced weigth. That means two engines only (instead of three) plus the reduction in weight (the most pressing issue in a Cat). You cannot count the full $250 per day for the engines, but let's say 50% and the entire refit is a 6 months affaire, then your total yard bill for the engine/drives would be 1/4 of the total so about $20k, but if you add the $28k plus the $20 K of storage, you are looking at the cost of brand new engines (if you only have two it's actually a bit less). Just on a cost base analysis having two old (30hrs) engines that cost the same as brand new (with Warranty) would seem obvious (not including even the cost of sweat equity here. Also since you are replacing the alternators it's a great opportunity to put non-Yanmar versions that produce more power...and recharge Li-Phs Then again refit of the engines has a lot of video content... But don't forget if you don't do the engine refit you are still probably spending six months in the yard, so not a real saving after all. The question if you don't have to do an engine refit will you get out of the yard more quickly, if the answer is yes, then that's a real saving, if the answer is no, then I would not budget any of the storage in the cost of the engines. Finally, and almost more importantly part s availability, we've had friends who waited months for simple Yanmar parts... Good luck and good winds
Oh, and you have to calculate in the old stuff-time too in the boat yard-cost. Like, 3-4 weeks extra, how much? Always get new ones, it is never worth it to repair if the cost is anything alike.
Sorry that post was long.. Note, you could also , put the whole yacht on a barge, and have it moved any where... In the 1970 I bought a yacht at auction in Concord area. Owner died, building her. She was 70% done, helo pad. Ice class, scrap yards were the only ones who SHOWED and me. Scrap steel was worthless in the 70s, so I bid just over scrap. And won. She was over 200 feet long. I finished the build, off to Greece, had fun. Then put her in a charter fleet. $135.000 per week. Her fuels tanks were 35.000 gallon. Ouch.. Go make some money..
Ok! 1) Get all New motor's and gen set! (Because of the warranty ! That is A BIG +) 2) You can recoup some of your costs on the New motor's and gen set by sailing the old new one's. You can get some of your$$$ back on that. 3) REMOVE ALL ELECTRICAL WIRES! Do Not try and save what was wet! 1) You will never know what may or may not have gotten wet. The boat was under water so you can bet it all got wet.2) You thin can put in everything in thet boat New and up to speed with the lithium set up. And have the peace of mind knowing it is all good. (You would hate yourself if just a year after all That HARD WORK you had a wire short some where deep in the boat you have to find and fix.) [I, on my boat had the exhaust hose blow off my port side engine and sprayed the entire engine room. Long story short I had to go in and replace All the electrical. So learn from my mistake and replace All of the electrical. I did what i thought was bad but had to come back just a few months later and do it all over again.] 4) as far as the hatches go you can build or make thim yourselves. For the cabin soles you can use a vinyl flooring to go over top. (I used lifeproof. Take look at it in home depot. You can get in any color and wood style you want. And it will out last the boat. Ok. I have more if you like to know more. I Can't Wait to see the work on the boat 🚢start. Until next Sunday Morning 🌄 Aloha from the Big Island 🏝of Hawaii 🏝
Go the new Engine route, get the warrantee's and reliability that comes with them. Either scavenge the old engines for viable parts, or sell them to someone willing and able to put the required time into them. At $250 a day, you can't afford to tinker with them. Patch/Fix your hull(s) so she is Sea Worthy, and tow her to another, less expensive marina to do the actual repairs. Maybe fix the rudders so she isn't flopping around behind your tow vessel. I know towing a vessel that large can be very difficult/dangerous, but take it slow and steady. I have no idea if it's advisable or legal to have someone on the boat being towed to help steer it (another reason to fix the rudders). Wishing you the best of luck!
Wowzah, Wowzah, Wowzah,!!! Definitely have your hands full on this one! I am glad the yard was amicable in working with you all and not kicking you out. Although, you didn't mention what the associated costs would be to move the boat to another yard as compared to the cost of keeping the boat in its current location. I agree with the sentiment of others, can you repair the hull as fast as possible, get the boat back in the water, then get her hauled out at another yard that can accommodate you and is far cheaper? As for the engines, that is a difficult answer. All things considered, I would look at the numbers, how much for a total overhaul and rebuild of the practically NEW engines versus getting two NEW engines delivered and installed? If NEW, I am sure the old engines will fetch a good price and help compensate for the costs. If the original engines are able to be rebuilt to pristine condition with no issues and the cost is significantly lower, like 45% or more, then I would go with the existing engines. However, if it's only a 25% or less difference, I would just go for the NEW engines and have the peace of mind that nothing like a bit of salt or some other hidden damage will creep up on me somewhere in the middle of the ocean. My original guestimate for fixing what I already knew was a 1.2 million yacht was around $275,000 before seeing the full extent of what would be needed. Then based on what I have seen so far and with today's report, my estimate went up to $400,000, which includes about 50K for 6 months in the yard, which could go to 100K if you are there for 1 year. The funny thing is I also guessed on the initial cost of 50K to get the boat from the salvagers, lol. The budget I made is $400,000 but, as always, unexpected costs and all the intangibles must be accounted for, so my final budget is $500,000 for a 1.2 million yacht. Still, not bad for a brand new 2021 Leopard 50. I am also guessing you are planning to SELL your current yacht Dauntless eventually, which will probably cover $350K and then getting a bank loan for $200K to cover the remaining repair costs. I would suggest asking Leopard to send a representative to be on-site with you all, meaning, they would have access to the proprietary information, would give you all the guidance and necessary resources to get the parts you need as well as blueprints and measurements, as well as what type of products they used on the new model. Many logistical things would be easily handled with an on-site rep IMHO. I am even wondering if Leopard may even cover some of the cost as you will be advertising them for the next year potentially. Or, if not on-site someone in the US at the Leopard branch in Fort Lauderdale to be readily available to assist you with anything you need. Is your business one that existed prior to rebuilding/refitting Dauntless or did you form the company as a way to handle expenses as business deductions for tax purposes? In my opinion, I think it's a GREAT IDEA for anyone that is contemplating a massive repair/refit to create an LLC company. The boat in effect becomes part of the business, it also removes your PERSONAL assets from the boat and company and protects you in case of any liability down the road, and protects you from lawsuits. Maybe you can discuss this in an upcoming video? I must admit I think most of us would say we agreed with the yard's initial assessment of the yacht when it was brought in. However, they had not met you folks yet and dint realize there were some crazy folks coming up from Florida to save her. Yes, it's damn crazy but not impossible as Leopard has confirmed! This could be one of the most EPIC repairs and refit I have ever witnessed. Should be an amazing journey! God Bless you both and the girls, you will need all the strength and determination that the original Dauntless embodies!
buy the new motors gene and saildrives, then sell the old ones to offset the cost between the reduced time in the shed also counts ifit takes 3 weeks to do the rebuilds thats 5k you didn't need to spend as well. You have a big job ahead good luck.
most valuable thing in this prohject and allmost in every project is time ! so new engines and sail drives. and also boat is going to have better value when the engines are not salvaged
If the finances are there then I would go the new engines get the old engines running and sell them, also the way I see it you then install new engines repair the hull do all fibreglass repairs, and get it back in the water as quick as possible, it’s a fantastic project, are you guys thinking of selling Dauntless if the boat turns out to be good as new. Thanks for sharing the costs it was very interesting, I thought that it would have taken $100,000 to purchase it I think you did well. See you next week.
On engine repair, time is also your cost at that ridiculous 250 per day price. I agree with the comment about finding a nearby warehouse and get the boat moved to it. 250/day is 7500/ month. That could almost buy a small warehouse after a year of those costs. You can sell it when your done to the next DYI team that is doing something similar. (I ‘m doing a major landscaping project and building/setting up a big greenhouse on my acreage...much cheaper to buy a 70,000 skid steer and sell when done versus rent it when needed. In fact the price has gone up so I will probably sell it for a profit too.) Find the right one and you could set up a temp living space in it...saving hotel cost and commute time. Think about it..only a 15 minute break to have a meal/ lunch when your going well on repairs.
I agree it ALWAYS takes longer than expected and with things in your control, in this covid world expect everything to take much longer, so the warehouse is great, rent or buy you'll money and time ahead. And with a large enough warehouse you could have significantly more space to store material and working space. Those molds for the Hull repair are going to be very large. Good Luck and GODspeed ;-)
Wow! if Robertson and Caine are being helpful, that only puts another mark against Lagoon for their issues with bulkhead separation that we are hearing about on their craft. It also says a lot about them as a company in their support of consumers. As for a sub $350k restoration, with things like questions about buying new or rebuilding the 3 engines onboard, that can grow quickly. I would buy new for the engines because it is your home, and I ALWAYS believe that you do the very best for your home. I am not sure how much some strangers online opinion matters, but I have no doubts in your ability to do it, and that is my two cents. BEST OF LUCK TO YOU!
Oh man sale the old engines and buy new!!! CYA!!!! Yall got this!!!Maybe even strip one engine for yourself and spare parts. Patching up ad moving to a cheaper place may be an option as well?
New engines, you’ll save time and headaches, sell the originals to offset some costs, I’d take some others advice about fixing the hull first and then finding a more affordable yard to move it to, but I wouldn’t patch it, I’d fix it properly in the shed and then complete all other work elsewhere.
Go through the brand new engines for sure. The amount of money you will spending will be rewarded with time you will have to dedicate working in the rest of the boat. 250 a day its quite some money and waiting for parts can be a real pain in the ass. So in my opinion that amount you will pay extra for brand new warrantied engines will worth it for sure! while your focus will be in the rest of the systems and doing lots of glass repairs etc etc... about the old ones just put them to sell like they are or in parts starting now, for you to try to get some income from it! keep up with the channel and doing this great work!!! Supporting you from South Portugal !!
I’m an old diesel filter who is now a cruiser. My thoughts are buy new engines and Generator. The resale value will better that way. All the best with it.
for the engines and drives Id get an estimate for local rebuild first. Then Maybe ask the factory people to see if they have an option you don't know about. You can never have too much info .
I love the sailing part of your videos but for some reason I enjoy the refitting of the boats so keep on keeping on love your channel cheers from Perth Australia
Found your channel about two weeks ago. You guys are incredible! Just finishing a major refit on the Lagoon and now undertaking the Leopard, pretty cool. Have you considered converting the Leopard into a solar cat? Instead of replacing the rigging and engines with new replacements, you could install a solar propulsion system using Ty’s electrical expertise with Tesla batteries. You could have a top end solar cruiser, the Leopard would make an excellent DIY Silent Yacht.
In my view it depends on what the plan for the boat actually is. Are you going to keep it or sell it? If you are selling it I would replace the engines and Genset to eliminate the chance of getting lowballed based on the history of the boat. I would also pay to refurbish the "old" units and sell them. If you are planning to keep the boat then I would refurbish the existing units and save the scratch.
If you are buying new engines you should consider the new hybrid design like the new Antares cats. I watched your Tesla battery series so thought you might like that suggestion.
Engines, etc. Buy new. Get the boat afloat. Pickle the engines, at some point either repair (while the boat isn't in the yard & 75 a day) or contract out a tear down/rebuild, resell. Petro's Solar build idea is interesting also, we know it can be done, what a great upgrade!
C'mon guys' I used to do QA for a auto engine factory and part of that job was tearing down, analysing, writing a report, and reassembling 2 engines a day. 😉😁😁😉 Replace or repair? How deep are the spiders and rattlesnakes in your pockets? Considering the potential resale value of the vessel I think I'd be going down the replace and part out option. But that would mean time spent stripping parts as and when orders came in. You could try offering both "old" units at ⅓ - ½ the replacement cost. My priority would be making the hull floatable and then move to a site that would allow DIY owners to get on with it . Can you access the deck to hull joint especially on the major damage side? I'd be surprised if it was still intact all round. Looking forward to the next upload. Eric
Im new to your channel and am very impressed. Your entire family are very knowledgeable and skilled. I hope and believe that this project will come together great. You are doing a great job. Keep it up! I would definitely buy the new engines and generator, then sell the old ones. Im sure someone would buy them and salvage them. The piece of mind is worth it!
HI, I'm commenting from New Zealand. Patch that damaged hull to make the boat watertight ( doesn't have to be pretty ) and get the boat towed to an industrial area where you take a 2 year lease on a suitable industrial building. If towing the boat on water isn't an economic option, get it trucked by road out of the present location to the industrial building. US$250 a day is CRAZY . US$1750 a week, US$7000 a month. You've got to be able to find a building that's cheaper than that. Buy new engines and the gear that goes with them. If you sell the boat, the new owner will have more confidence and pay a higher price for the boat...if you decide to make the boat your home, you'll have the security of knowing there are no long term issues developing as a result of the flooding. The existing engines have high residual value, and you can renovate those in your own sweet time and when parts are economically available. Its a no brainer...move from your current location!! If you get delayed for any parts or materials at all during tyhis process, add $7000 per month to the cost of those parts.
We have been wondering how Stella is adjusting to boat life. We have 2 labs (Black & Yellow....Black & Yellow...Black & Yellow) haha We plan on boat life in the near future. How do you keep Stella cool with her dark coat? Does she have any problems using the restroom on the boat (when you can’t get to shore)? Keep up the great content!!
Great channel and this is a great challenge! I like the talking head bits where you give that great level of detail (that we all really want to know!). I'd say with some basic maths (you can get Sydney to double check) that if you can patch the hull and get to a cheaper yard then go with repairing the engines, but if you can't then go for new as it'll be a lot quicker so the price differential will be closer (you always take longer than you think with engine stuff, especially when you don't know all the problems yet). Really looking forward to seeing how you get on, best of luck!
As a leopard owner myself Robertson and Caine are a very good builder and having met The designer myself (I’m South African but I don’t live there) I’m sure they will give you the advice you need. I have asked for upgrade system plans for my leopard and they sent them out to me. Good luck the 50 is a great boat having been on one in Cape Town that was freshly launched.
I’d go with new engines and generator - the boat has tremendous resale value since it is so new. Take advantage of that by making her truly ‘like new’. I’m thinking you will do very well on this boat. If it were 4-5 years old, I’d think about it very different……. Love what you guys are doing. Thanks for sharing and best of luck.
I'm cheap. I would float the boat and pull it to a cheaper location. Rushing decisions will drive your price up. Pull the engine and let a shop go through it.
I just found your channel.... I can't wait to watch the rest of your first rebuild, and then this new one. Next stop, your own HGTV series "Boat Flippers". :)
In your current situation, in that yard, and with the breadth of repairs you have, time is the enemy. The longer you are in the shed at $250 a day and the longer you have to wait for parts and materials is all going to blow up a budget. First thing, find out how long to get new replacement engines and sail drives and gens, hull materials needed to get you back on the water at a dock where you can do final fitting out at a lower cost than $250/day. Yes, that's sort of like many have suggested fixing the holes and side of the hull to get her floating and go somewhere else cheaper. But you need to know your time frames for all the critical stuff. If you need to replace the refridgerator, you can do that from a dock somewhere later. Engines and heavy metal and structural hull and superstructure need to be in the first wave once you know when that stuff will be available. Make it a boat first and a sailboat later. Once replaced, you can decide to recondition any of the working parts/engines etc. and sell them, sell them for parts or to another rehabber to work on. If you are keeping a 'young' boat, go for new and warrantee on the important mechanicals. Even with the higher cost, the time you save on your very expensive timeline will benefit you more. Good Luck! We're with you.
It is great to think you are going to restore the boat ...BUT .from the costings point of view for the engines , if you can afford to buy new ones they will install very quickly without ongoing costs of yard rental. You may then remove the existing ones to refurb them off site, in your own time and eventually re-sell them. I have to agree with other coments that doing a quick patch up and moving the boat to another location may considerably reduce your cost in the long run.Great videos thanks, much more interesting than watching other channels on their holiday adventures!
Replace the engines and sell the parts….no brainer IMO. Otherwise you’ll constantly be worrying about them….or at least I know I would. I worry a bit about my yanmar and it’s never been dunked.
![สาวเมืองเพชร - ธีเดช ทองอภิชาติ [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kEt7F9PvO3I/mqdefault.jpg)
Another idea on fixing the hull and moving to a cheaper place: consider putting temporary hull patches on the hull, get it to float, and then move it to a cheaper place, then remove the temporary patches, and fix the hull correctly. That may save you even more money. Good luck!
good idea... that it a big hole though so may take a while.
Along the lines of what Colin did with one of his repair boats
Yep, this was my immediate thought. Get it floating as quickly as possible and get it out of there.
@@rumplestiltskin1 was is Guatemala ?... surprised how cheap it was especially labor which would allow you to speed up the process. Problem i guess is that you would need to motor a heck of a long way ! so maybe somewhere cheap on the east coast where you have an exit plan if a passage goes wrong.
@@DRB68 They're doing the work themselves so really somewhere in the US thats accessible by water from where they currently are with ready access to materials, an ability to remove the cat from the water and low rent...
New engines, drives and generator are the way to go. I also agree with some of the other comments to get the boat temporarily patched and tow it to a more conducive repair facility. The price per day will start to create stress as you proceed through the project and may affect your repair decisions in the future. We all like to believe we can predict our near term future but things will happen. Just like offshore travel, plan to have the best trip and best weather but prepare for the worst. Good luck and looking forward to watching your new adventure.
Plus they may be able to recover some of the costs of the new ones by selling the old ones. May not be a lot but anything is better than nothing!
What if you could fix the hull damage and make her seaworthy and tow her off to a more suitable location to save some $$ in storage. You have a big road ahead that will give you some set backs and unforeseen delays. That storage rate could be a budget wrecker. At any rate. Best of luck and I will keep posted in anticipation of the start of the repair process.
Have to agree with Bryan. Would first get her to float and then look at a less expensive yard to repair interiors, otherwise the yard bill at $250 a day may break you as the time line is unknown. Wishing you all the best.
Good idea!
a year in a shed would be 91k...compare to a patch job to be float her and a 400 mile tow ..and if they can find a DIY yard big enough to haul her out...the numbers even with new engines and a year in the shed...75k for a slush fund still keeps them at 500k
good call get it in the water and move to cheaper fix area
@@mattf49006 I agree, even if they just did the hull and engine repairs properly and then drove it somewhere cheaper, I doubt it would take a year.
Personally I would replace everything new, engines, generator. At $250 storage, you will unlikely be financially worse off, however what is the lead time on receiving those parts? You guys are legends. All your followers would probably like 2 hour weekly episodes (only kidding, I know the videos take a long time to produce) but don’t underestimate how much your followers would like longer videos as you are really good at producing them.This is going to be really interesting to watch. Good luck guys.
get new engines and sell the old blocks. Get them out of the boat and do the salvage work elsewhere to avoid more mess in the boat. You will have better control over your budget and end result
Thanks for being so open about your plan and associated costs. I would definitely replace your engines etc with new ones. As some have said below, you can recover some of the cost by selling your original engines to help lesson the blow of the cost of new. The amount of time you would have spent on trying to repair the old can then be invested in other important areas of repair. I've always tried sticking to the mantra - if you're going to do it, do it right - the first time. (only my input, as it's not my money! lol Looking forward to whatever decision you make)
I totally agree with Brian McFarland....fix the hull so it will be seaworthy and tow it to a much cheaper boat yard...... really, it is a no brainer
Having fixed and Irma Boat (Pajot Saba 50) , that had ONLY exhaust water inversion from flipping upside down NOT being under water. After dewatering and cleanup, we ran the engines over 1500 miles to bring the vessel from Mobile Alabama to Cincinnati via the Tenn tom waterway. Once on the hard and in repair process I removed and opened up the motor that had the most water in it from the onset.. it was devastating to see the corrosion on everything, the crank, the inside of the block, the oil pan it was all corroding even after 3-4 oil changes and 1500 miles of running. remembering not under water just exhaust can water inversion. The most surprising was the turbo hot side and wastegate, completely corroded, shocked we made the trip probably over-boosting the whole time.... So a phone call to Trans Atlantic Diesel and 2 new Volvo Pentas were ordered up with new wiring and Gauge sets... long story to short....Cost benefit analysis says invest your time in the hull repairs and electrical systems and wait for the new engines and saildrives to arrive. Remove the wet ones and sell them as cores to one of the many rebuilders in south Florida or even Trans Atlantic themselves. Go for the peace of mind of new motors, if you keep the thing you can rest easy knowing when the going gets rough and you have to motor, they will ready for you no matter what. If you sell the vessel is a no brainer the new owners would almost insist the motors be new even if it goes straight into charter.
1 vote for new!!
BTW I admire your tenacity and You 3 have some serious skills love it!
Shape templates of the port hull bottom to build a quick mold for the piece to fix the Stb hull bottom. I watched a few guys fix a new Nautitech down in the BVI had 30' of bottom missing just like yours.. It was really no big deal after I saw the method ! Hopefully you can order keels, those are some serious thick Layups beyond what can practically reproduced.. Awesome project! Geoff is cool Dude, met Him in a harbor down in the BVI also down around Irma time, he had half a dozen lagoons he salvaged with Husky and was selling. He teamed up with the parlay revival guys on a couple cats also..
Curious how long your engines were exposed to air before pickling them 🤔👍
@@rogerkerkmann
They were exposed to air the entire time the boat was flipped and subsequently being worked on to get out of the BVI.. approx 7 months
I get the entire concept behind no oxygen no corrosion...
they emptied the engines and now the timer starts... how long before Engine control units and wiring harness is can be put in place with a clean fuel system so that they can be run right up to temperature and oil changed a few times.
I am completely of the mindset that everything is salvageable, however given the cost of being in the yard and the benefit of all new it just makes more sense to go all new...
Great ideas
On a bit more of a technical incentive on replacing the engines and such - way back when - in my college days, we were investigating failures of metal wheels. Using an electron microscope we found that within hours of exposing most metals to a salt bath they were completely engulfed in corrosion at a molecular level. No form of cleaning and surface wiping would remove the corrosion which also creates micro pits and higher abrasion. The only way to fix it was to mechanically remove the corroded layer(machining, sanding, etc.) Without this removal process the corrosion continues to spread any time oxygen is present.
😱
I live in your area and it seems to me you could rent available warehouses space and truck the boat out off the marina. 250 USD per day is significant. I suspect a warehouse space will be a better value.
That’s my idea also
Thank you for the frank no-holes-barred update.
Big Risks, Big Rewards.
Massive Respect from New Zealand
😀👍
Your engines have value. Keep it for parts, sell as is or part it out. Buy all new. The time you save can be spent on the hull in the building. This will get you out of there sooner.
Try getting a hold of Just Catamarans, I believe they can get the laminate, because they do custom cabinetry and interiors for leopards. As far as the engines go, I would pull them out, you have to for new engines anyways, and pull the oil pans off them to check the internals. If you see any rust, I'd go with new engines, because you'll never know where else that rust is. Oil journals, bearings, etc. If they look good, then I'd consider pulling the fuel lines and injectors, draining all the fluids, putting the injectors back in and starting them with fresh diesel and some diesel kleen. Run em for an hour and then listen for any weird noises/ticks. That MAY save you a ton of $$. Again, if you've got any second thoughts, go with new and get a warranty. Pulling the engines will also reduce the weight/load on the fiberglass that you're going to have to cut out and repair. May save you additional damage/repairs to the boat, plus help you keep the hulls straight.
Time and money better spent on continue repairs and supply's.. Piece of mind and "Warranty".. You guys and Rock Stars..
In a previous episode you discussed living on the Leopard. If that’s the case I would recommend purchasing new engines and drives. You’ve already proven you can convert to solar so I’d do the same for this vessel.
As far as the old engines, hang on to them and rebuild at your convenience when parts become available. Your next salvage job (3rd) may require only engines. Since your “in business” there may be tax advantages to think of as well.
Huge fan of what ocean volt is doing in the multi-hull space. Own a 2005 leopard 40 that has an engine needs rebuilt and the other probably just because it’s twin is on the way out. If you’re doing as much work as you are, might be easier and cheaper in the long run to go with an electric drive system with solar and a backup generator.
@@mstrroissy good idea, worth exploring
Yes I agree cut your losses and get new because you could have mysterious problems, due to the boat being pickled. Sometimes electrical issues with connections and making sure everything is running properly again can hunt you for the rest of the boats life. Very interesting channel really enjoy your content thank you again for the great videos!
No questions, buy the new engines. You have enough on your plate as it is. It'll allow you to focus on getting her watertight and could help you get out of the pricey yard quicker to finish repairs elsewhere. Best of luck
I deal with Ebay all the time. The issue is time and money about the engines and sail drives. If you can sell the parts for good money and the time to install new equipment is a better known, I vote replace everything. Piece of mind and having good warranties is priceless.
Another new engine vote, presuming you can fund whole project. It's easier, and leaves the ability to recoup from selling the old. It will save time in parts gathering too.
Construct hulls, install engines... then make passage to cheaper yard for remaining work... heck, even wait for final painting... until in a yard more conducive and affordable.
I would go for the new engines... Those engines will have to be completely rebuilt... All the way down to the crank. That will be a lot of work and if you miss anything in there it could be disastrous. You have bigger fish to fry... The hull will be a huge project and replacing all the electronics and electrical will be a big thing. You will probably be somewhere around 500K when done and you are so not going to want any gremlins cropping up from the propulsion and generator (I bet that is completely trashed). Maybe even add big alternators and ditch the genny... Save weight and dough. Whatever you decide we'll be here to watch. Good luck :). This will be an epic project! F
Amazing what you guys are taking on and what projects you have done in the past and are capable of doing in coming months/years. Hard work, organizational skills, creativity, and problem solving, is a killer combination and your team has it all going on! As the saying goes “It’s the Indian, not the arrow”😉.
I am excited to see this new build, just so you know, i love the talking head stuff. Very informative! To answer your question, just buy new engines and sail drives. Having warranties will give you peace of mind down the road. My biggest concern is 250 a day. wouldn't it make sense to repair the hull, make her seaworthy and tow her to a DIY yard then repair everything else? Just wondering. I am also wondering what yourlong term plan is, are you gonna live aboard the new vessel and sell Dauntless? if so what is her value?
Thanks for sharing all the details! New engines, generator and sail drives!
What a mind blowing project you’ve got guys! I love your spirit and I’m sure that you can you do it! Engines... well if I am going to buy this cat the old engines are kind of a deal breaker for me. I mean some salt water for sure has entered in the combustion chambers through the exhaust valves. Even if it’s a little corrosion there is a risk that won’t last longer. Probably the best solution is the engines.
For any structural repairs I think it would be great if you can sketch on CAD the damage and the repair plan ( material and techniques) and send those to the manufacture for expertise and recommendations. That would give another look at the all project from DIY to something more professional as well can help you to sell the boat easier for higher price. The all project management is quite time consuming and painful but ones is done makes the picture much brighter.
The only advice I can give you is do not let haters and negative opinions to affect you. You are the one deciding what is possible/right and what not.
I can’t wait to see more videos from you!
You guys are great!! Love your tenacity!
Buy the new engines, it will cut time spent + warranty on new, is a definite +. I would sell the old motors, "as is" OR take them somewhere (that has a better rate of storage fees), where you can work on them at your "leisure", not that you have leisure time...at the moment.
Best wishes ❤ & looking forward watching your progress 😀
Great news that Leopard will talk. If you can get the radius of the bulkheads. You could have lower sections cut to size and bond in to give you the hull shape. Anything can be fixed, it’s just up to your skill set and $$$🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼🤟🏼🇦🇺.
“ You can do it!!! Yeah”.
Hopefully at the least they can sort out some new floor panels and some missing parts.
1- Go dive on wreck and try to locate the sail drive. If you can’t find the sail drive, see option 2.
2 - buy new ones.
Would be awesome if Leopard would pop a section of the hull you need from their molds!! Win Win!!!
Don’t forget that Barefoot Sailing Doctors had their Leopard 50 just burn to water. Find them hulls and pop your molds from them b4 the cut them up.
Considering they've been sitting with salt water in them with air space. I myself would replace them. Then I would then refurbish them and then sell them.
Since rehabbing the engines takes time,go with new engines and sail drives,it gets you back floating sooner! Good luck,thanks for bringing us with you on this adventure
new engines, new everything
I would sell the old engines and generator. Buy new enginges, skip the generator and load it with a butt load of solar.
Plus NEW engines come with Warrantees and reliability and the last thing you want in a vessel as land slips down under the horizon is engine problems because you missed something while refurbishing an engine.
Yes sell the old ones buy & fit new engines skip the generator.
👍☑️ I agree with Tim, new engine’s and sell the old ones and if’s it’s possible temporary patch and crank up those new engines and move to a more reasonable place.
I've read most of the comments. I can't add anything more than what's already been said. A lot of good advice. Have fun. Don't put anymore stress on your selves than you already have.
Good advice!
If you can afford the new engine/saildrive sets without greatly impacting your budget, go with new. The old can be sold, parted out, given to a good need, etc. All the best!
For $250 a day, I pop new engines in so that you can be working on the rest of the boat while you are waiting for the engines to be installed. The refurbishment of the old engines will take significant time, AND take you away from doing other work. I really feel for you undertaking this repair. I agree with other comments below about moving the boat to a cheaper yard. The long term benefits could be worth it, BUT you may have to forego working in the luxury of the shade of the shed! Best of luck to you!
I would think about taking a different approach. Yes, it will be more expensive but far shorter time and hassle. I also think it would massively add to the resale value and likely insurability. Remember, your end buyer is wealthy and does not want a DIY repair job. General comments about approach:
- contact Leopard and/or Just Catamarans about getting SOME of the design specs for the Boat, including electrical layout, bit of hull in CAD that needs fixing, production materials to ensure consistency, finishing techniques, etc. See if you can order as many spare parts as you need from them as well. Bulk order will reduce shipping costs. Order soonish and hopefully have the hull done when parts turn up.
- replace engines, gen and wiring. Again, I think it will take >$50k off you boat value if you don't replace wiring. People don't want the risk, hassle of constant electrical problems ... which will happen if not changed out.
- consider staying at park and accelerating timeline with above strategies. If the $250 included ability to borrow tools, the odd worker (extra pair of hands), specialist tools and advice on occasion, then I reckon the deal is not a bad one. You can spend hours and hours trying to become an expert on every area, only to get it wrong and cause more time and cost. There is a reason the experts at the boat yard were treating it as a write-off.
Thank you for being so open about the price.
By all means, buy the new generator and engines. The old ones are saleable as damaged, or parts and pieces. You may not need a generator if you go solar like Dauntless. Just a thought?
I would say when all said and done 650K - 750K if you can do it within 1 year. other option is get it floatable once hall is sealed and engines run so you can move it to a more affordable diy yard.
Buy new, sell the old stuff to someone that needs them and is willing to put the time in. Get your NDA signing pen ready. for Leopard!
Cut your losses and buy new. That way you can sell the old ones and probably make up the difference between new and repair.
I agree with you Bob, like I commented in the last video there the cost and the effort will slowly creep up to get close to a new boat , adding ro the fact that there is NO WAY this boat will ever be the same again . The point of this story is, never buy a sunken boat if you have a choice.
Hi folks
I'm a retired Deisel Fuel Injection Fitter. I would lean toward new units, but, your old units are likely to be sold for good money in that you will probably get new units for the repair of your "old" inits' cost of repair. If you follow my convoluted thinking!
You are gutsy, for sure, and I'll look forward to following your adventure. As the French would say "Bon Chance".
engines and sail drives for $50k is a big win, throw the old units in storage and fix them later to recoup $30K, you are basically into glass work, so if you have a good plan there are thousands of qualified composite folks that can help if need be. Other components you can do the same thing, replace with new, store the almost new and repair if possible at a later date. You have the ability to do this, enjoy!
I'd suggest buy the new engines and saildrives and either get the old engines refurbished and sold or parted out.
New ones for sure. There is more value in the old engines than you imagine
Buy the new engines, if you are going to sell the boat once it's done this will remove a lot of questions from the buyers. You can then sell the old engines on and make some of the money back. Also, get it watertight ASAP and move it to somewhere with more sensible fees.
Syd’s new boat is getting there!
Buy brand new, salvage the salvageable things like the engines, at your leisure, and sell them to recoup some losses or keep as backups.
I'm more interested in the solar/energy change. Maybe a 100kWh bank with dual quattro's this time?
If so what about an Oceanvolt setup for propulsion and perhaps a slightly larger generator set rather than new diesel engines?
You can't travel down the intercoastal with electric motors that is just a dream
I'd like to know how much the electric motor and batteries would cost. but definitely would get a new generator, you can run the generator and run the motors all day.
I don't know how you could make any decisions about anything mechanical without opening everything up. I helped a buddy in Rhode Island, strip down his engine after his fishing boat sank. It had been under for more than a week before he could get the help to drag it up and out. We drained the engine and dropped the oil pan. Pulled the valve cover and pump off the top end and cleaned everything the best we could. Then with an oil pump from a small block chevy and some fancy fittings, we pumped fresh oil through the entire engines oil passages. Collected all the oil draining out, we saw very little water left in the engine. But this gave everything a fresh coat of oil!! Then went to the cooling system and simply pumped fresh water through so we would be able to say if we found any salt water left anywhere. Never did and we put the engine back together and ran it in the shop with a garden hose and it was perfect!! About 8 years after I got out of the Navy a friend called me and told me he had died. My buddy told me he always told people about when it sank and me talking him into pulling it apart. That boat and engine were still in use by his sons after that!! Spending 50K on a new set of NEW ENGINES = Crazy. Spending a little time and a few bucks and possibly saving 50K = Well, not quite priceless, but $$$50K!!!!!!
I agree with T even if you overhaul all the mechanical you will more than likely have problems down the road as a ex naval mechanic go with the new and have peace of mind
Thanks for your candidness and transparency! It helps folks truly understand the breadth of the project and the time abd money that's necessary . The immense physical work is daunting and the financial burden could be soul crushing but y'all seem to have the grit, teamwork, and persistence to pull it off. Kudos and best wishes!
On second thought. Replace your power plants get your hulls water tight and rig a temporary VHF RIG. Get yourself to a yard where you can DIY and your daily rate is reasonable.
I was surprised to see led acid batteries in a $1.2MM vessel. The question has to be, install solar (serious amount), lose the generator entirely, lithium iron phosphate batteries, and reduced weigth. That means two engines only (instead of three) plus the reduction in weight (the most pressing issue in a Cat). You cannot count the full $250 per day for the engines, but let's say 50% and the entire refit is a 6 months affaire, then your total yard bill for the engine/drives would be 1/4 of the total so about $20k, but if you add the $28k plus the $20 K of storage, you are looking at the cost of brand new engines (if you only have two it's actually a bit less). Just on a cost base analysis having two old (30hrs) engines that cost the same as brand new (with Warranty) would seem obvious (not including even the cost of sweat equity here. Also since you are replacing the alternators it's a great opportunity to put non-Yanmar versions that produce more power...and recharge Li-Phs
Then again refit of the engines has a lot of video content...
But don't forget if you don't do the engine refit you are still probably spending six months in the yard, so not a real saving after all. The question if you don't have to do an engine refit will you get out of the yard more quickly, if the answer is yes, then that's a real saving, if the answer is no, then I would not budget any of the storage in the cost of the engines.
Finally, and almost more importantly part s availability, we've had friends who waited months for simple Yanmar parts...
Good luck and good winds
Oh, and you have to calculate in the old stuff-time too in the boat yard-cost. Like, 3-4 weeks extra, how much? Always get new ones, it is never worth it to repair if the cost is anything alike.
Sorry that post was long..
Note, you could also , put the whole yacht on a barge, and have it moved any where...
In the 1970 I bought a yacht at auction in Concord area. Owner died, building her. She was 70% done, helo pad. Ice class, scrap yards were the only ones who SHOWED and me. Scrap steel was worthless in the 70s, so I bid just over scrap. And won. She was over 200 feet long.
I finished the build, off to Greece, had fun. Then put her in a charter fleet. $135.000 per week.
Her fuels tanks were 35.000 gallon. Ouch..
Go make some money..
Ok! 1) Get all New motor's and gen set! (Because of the warranty ! That is A BIG +)
2) You can recoup some of your costs on the New motor's and gen set by sailing the old new one's. You can get some of your$$$ back on that.
3) REMOVE ALL ELECTRICAL WIRES! Do Not try and save what was wet! 1) You will never know what may or may not have gotten wet. The boat was under water so you can bet it all got wet.2) You thin can put in everything in thet boat New and up to speed with the lithium set up. And have the peace of mind knowing it is all good. (You would hate yourself if just a year after all That HARD WORK you had a wire short some where deep in the boat you have to find and fix.)
[I, on my boat had the exhaust hose blow off my port side engine and sprayed the entire engine room. Long story short I had to go in and replace All the electrical. So learn from my mistake and replace All of the electrical. I did what i thought was bad but had to come back just a few months later and do it all over again.]
4) as far as the hatches go you can build or make thim yourselves. For the cabin soles you can use a vinyl flooring to go over top. (I used lifeproof. Take look at it in home depot. You can get in any color and wood style you want. And it will out last the boat.
Ok. I have more if you like to know more.
I Can't Wait to see the work on the boat 🚢start.
Until next Sunday Morning 🌄
Aloha from the Big Island 🏝of Hawaii 🏝
Go the new Engine route, get the warrantee's and reliability that comes with them. Either scavenge the old engines for viable parts, or sell them to someone willing and able to put the required time into them. At $250 a day, you can't afford to tinker with them.
Patch/Fix your hull(s) so she is Sea Worthy, and tow her to another, less expensive marina to do the actual repairs. Maybe fix the rudders so she isn't flopping around behind your tow vessel. I know towing a vessel that large can be very difficult/dangerous, but take it slow and steady. I have no idea if it's advisable or legal to have someone on the boat being towed to help steer it (another reason to fix the rudders).
Wishing you the best of luck!
I'm so excited for the new floating house yay yay !!
Go for the new engines and sail drives, fix the old at a later date and sell them off!!!
Wowzah, Wowzah, Wowzah,!!! Definitely have your hands full on this one!
I am glad the yard was amicable in working with you all and not kicking you out. Although, you didn't mention what the associated costs would be to move the boat to another yard as compared to the cost of keeping the boat in its current location. I agree with the sentiment of others, can you repair the hull as fast as possible, get the boat back in the water, then get her hauled out at another yard that can accommodate you and is far cheaper?
As for the engines, that is a difficult answer. All things considered, I would look at the numbers, how much for a total overhaul and rebuild of the practically NEW engines versus getting two NEW engines delivered and installed? If NEW, I am sure the old engines will fetch a good price and help compensate for the costs. If the original engines are able to be rebuilt to pristine condition with no issues and the cost is significantly lower, like 45% or more, then I would go with the existing engines. However, if it's only a 25% or less difference, I would just go for the NEW engines and have the peace of mind that nothing like a bit of salt or some other hidden damage will creep up on me somewhere in the middle of the ocean.
My original guestimate for fixing what I already knew was a 1.2 million yacht was around $275,000 before seeing the full extent of what would be needed. Then based on what I have seen so far and with today's report, my estimate went up to $400,000, which includes about 50K for 6 months in the yard, which could go to 100K if you are there for 1 year. The funny thing is I also guessed on the initial cost of 50K to get the boat from the salvagers, lol.
The budget I made is $400,000 but, as always, unexpected costs and all the intangibles must be accounted for, so my final budget is $500,000 for a 1.2 million yacht. Still, not bad for a brand new 2021 Leopard 50. I am also guessing you are planning to SELL your current yacht Dauntless eventually, which will probably cover $350K and then getting a bank loan for $200K to cover the remaining repair costs.
I would suggest asking Leopard to send a representative to be on-site with you all, meaning, they would have access to the proprietary information, would give you all the guidance and necessary resources to get the parts you need as well as blueprints and measurements, as well as what type of products they used on the new model. Many logistical things would be easily handled with an on-site rep IMHO. I am even wondering if Leopard may even cover some of the cost as you will be advertising them for the next year potentially. Or, if not on-site someone in the US at the Leopard branch in Fort Lauderdale to be readily available to assist you with anything you need.
Is your business one that existed prior to rebuilding/refitting Dauntless or did you form the company as a way to handle expenses as business deductions for tax purposes? In my opinion, I think it's a GREAT IDEA for anyone that is contemplating a massive repair/refit to create an LLC company. The boat in effect becomes part of the business, it also removes your PERSONAL assets from the boat and company and protects you in case of any liability down the road, and protects you from lawsuits. Maybe you can discuss this in an upcoming video?
I must admit I think most of us would say we agreed with the yard's initial assessment of the yacht when it was brought in. However, they had not met you folks yet and dint realize there were some crazy folks coming up from Florida to save her. Yes, it's damn crazy but not impossible as Leopard has confirmed! This could be one of the most EPIC repairs and refit I have ever witnessed. Should be an amazing journey!
God Bless you both and the girls, you will need all the strength and determination that the original Dauntless embodies!
Are you going to sell or keep this boat. Enjoyed the info you gave us.
buy the new motors gene and saildrives, then sell the old ones to offset the cost between the reduced time in the shed also counts ifit takes 3 weeks to do the rebuilds thats 5k you didn't need to spend as well. You have a big job ahead good luck.
Buy the new engines, There will always be unknowns with salt damaged units. Plus warranties are a good thing to have,
most valuable thing in this prohject and allmost in every project is time ! so new engines and sail drives. and also boat is going to have better value when the engines are not salvaged
If the finances are there then I would go the new engines get the old engines running and sell them, also the way I see it you then install new engines repair the hull do all fibreglass repairs, and get it back in the water as quick as possible, it’s a fantastic project, are you guys thinking of selling Dauntless if the boat turns out to be good as new. Thanks for sharing the costs it was very interesting, I thought that it would have taken $100,000 to purchase it I think you did well. See you next week.
New for sure!!!
On engine repair, time is also your cost at that ridiculous 250 per day price.
I agree with the comment about finding a nearby warehouse and get the boat moved to it.
250/day is 7500/ month. That could almost buy a small warehouse after a year of those costs. You can sell it when your done to the next DYI team that is doing something similar. (I ‘m doing a major landscaping project and building/setting up a big greenhouse on my acreage...much cheaper to buy a 70,000 skid steer and sell when done versus rent it when needed. In fact the price has gone up so I will probably sell it for a profit too.) Find the right one and you could set up a temp living space in it...saving hotel cost and commute time. Think about it..only a 15 minute break to have a meal/ lunch when your going well on repairs.
I agree it ALWAYS takes longer than expected and with things in your control, in this covid world expect everything to take much longer, so the warehouse is great, rent or buy you'll money and time ahead. And with a large enough warehouse you could have significantly more space to store material and working space. Those molds for the Hull repair are going to be very large. Good Luck and GODspeed ;-)
Out of the box thinking!
Wow! if Robertson and Caine are being helpful, that only puts another mark against Lagoon for their issues with bulkhead separation that we are hearing about on their craft. It also says a lot about them as a company in their support of consumers. As for a sub $350k restoration, with things like questions about buying new or rebuilding the 3 engines onboard, that can grow quickly. I would buy new for the engines because it is your home, and I ALWAYS believe that you do the very best for your home. I am not sure how much some strangers online opinion matters, but I have no doubts in your ability to do it, and that is my two cents. BEST OF LUCK TO YOU!
Oh man sale the old engines and buy new!!! CYA!!!! Yall got this!!!Maybe even strip one engine for yourself and spare parts. Patching up ad moving to a cheaper place may be an option as well?
New engines, you’ll save time and headaches, sell the originals to offset some costs, I’d take some others advice about fixing the hull first and then finding a more affordable yard to move it to, but I wouldn’t patch it, I’d fix it properly in the shed and then complete all other work elsewhere.
Go through the brand new engines for sure. The amount of money you will spending will be rewarded with time you will have to dedicate working in the rest of the boat. 250 a day its quite some money and waiting for parts can be a real pain in the ass.
So in my opinion that amount you will pay extra for brand new warrantied engines will worth it for sure! while your focus will be in the rest of the systems and doing lots of glass repairs etc etc... about the old ones just put them to sell like they are or in parts starting now, for you to try to get some income from it!
keep up with the channel and doing this great work!!!
Supporting you from South Portugal !!
That’s is great that Leppard want to be and hopefully will look after you guy’s. If the old motors come out easily maybe replace with new.
I’m an old diesel filter who is now a cruiser. My thoughts are buy new engines and Generator. The resale value will better that way. All the best with it.
So awesome!, so glad I found you guys and now have to go back and start watch you other videos to get caught up
for the engines and drives Id get an estimate for local rebuild first. Then Maybe ask the factory people to see if they have an option you don't know about. You can never have too much info .
I love the sailing part of your videos but for some reason I enjoy the refitting of the boats so keep on keeping on love your channel cheers from Perth Australia
Found your channel about two weeks ago. You guys are incredible! Just finishing a major refit on the Lagoon and now undertaking the Leopard, pretty cool.
Have you considered converting the Leopard into a solar cat? Instead of replacing the rigging and engines with new replacements, you could install a solar propulsion system using Ty’s electrical expertise with Tesla batteries.
You could have a top end solar cruiser, the Leopard would make an excellent DIY Silent Yacht.
In my view it depends on what the plan for the boat actually is. Are you going to keep it or sell it? If you are selling it I would replace the engines and Genset to eliminate the chance of getting lowballed based on the history of the boat. I would also pay to refurbish the "old" units and sell them. If you are planning to keep the boat then I would refurbish the existing units and save the scratch.
What you said👍🏼
If you are buying new engines you should consider the new hybrid design like the new Antares cats. I watched your Tesla battery series so thought you might like that suggestion.
Engines, etc. Buy new. Get the boat afloat. Pickle the engines, at some point either repair (while the boat isn't in the yard & 75 a day) or contract out a tear down/rebuild, resell. Petro's Solar build idea is interesting also, we know it can be done, what a great upgrade!
C'mon guys'
I used to do QA for a auto engine factory and part of that job was tearing down, analysing, writing a report, and reassembling 2 engines a day.
😉😁😁😉
Replace or repair?
How deep are the spiders and rattlesnakes in your pockets?
Considering the potential resale value of the vessel I think I'd be going down the replace and part out option. But that would mean time spent stripping parts as and when orders came in. You could try offering both "old" units at ⅓ - ½ the replacement cost.
My priority would be making the hull floatable and then move to a site that would allow DIY owners to get on with it .
Can you access the deck to hull joint especially on the major damage side? I'd be surprised if it was still intact all round.
Looking forward to the next upload.
Eric
Im new to your channel and am very impressed. Your entire family are very knowledgeable and skilled. I hope and believe that this project will come together great. You are doing a great job. Keep it up! I would definitely buy the new engines and generator, then sell the old ones. Im sure someone would buy them and salvage them. The piece of mind is worth it!
HI, I'm commenting from New Zealand. Patch that damaged hull to make the boat watertight ( doesn't have to be pretty ) and get the boat towed to an industrial area where you take a 2 year lease on a suitable industrial building. If towing the boat on water isn't an economic option, get it trucked by road out of the present location to the industrial building. US$250 a day is CRAZY . US$1750 a week, US$7000 a month. You've got to be able to find a building that's cheaper than that. Buy new engines and the gear that goes with them. If you sell the boat, the new owner will have more confidence and pay a higher price for the boat...if you decide to make the boat your home, you'll have the security of knowing there are no long term issues developing as a result of the flooding. The existing engines have high residual value, and you can renovate those in your own sweet time and when parts are economically available. Its a no brainer...move from your current location!! If you get delayed for any parts or materials at all during tyhis process, add $7000 per month to the cost of those parts.
We have been wondering how Stella is adjusting to boat life. We have 2 labs (Black & Yellow....Black & Yellow...Black & Yellow) haha
We plan on boat life in the near future. How do you keep Stella cool with her dark coat? Does she have any problems using the restroom on the boat (when you can’t get to shore)? Keep up the great content!!
Will be really keen to watch this project progress.
Great channel and this is a great challenge! I like the talking head bits where you give that great level of detail (that we all really want to know!). I'd say with some basic maths (you can get Sydney to double check) that if you can patch the hull and get to a cheaper yard then go with repairing the engines, but if you can't then go for new as it'll be a lot quicker so the price differential will be closer (you always take longer than you think with engine stuff, especially when you don't know all the problems yet). Really looking forward to seeing how you get on, best of luck!
As a leopard owner myself Robertson and Caine are a very good builder and having met The designer myself (I’m South African but I don’t live there) I’m sure they will give you the advice you need. I have asked for upgrade system plans for my leopard and they sent them out to me. Good luck the 50 is a great boat having been on one in Cape Town that was freshly launched.
Love it! Definitely buckled in for the ride!
I’d go with new engines and generator - the boat has tremendous resale value since it is so new. Take advantage of that by making her truly ‘like new’. I’m thinking you will do very well on this boat. If it were 4-5 years old, I’d think about it very different……. Love what you guys are doing. Thanks for sharing and best of luck.
New engines and sail drives, you should find out what scrap or resale value the old ones are worth.
I'm cheap. I would float the boat and pull it to a cheaper location. Rushing decisions will drive your price up. Pull the engine and let a shop go through it.
I agree if it was going to be their boat but to flip a boat that new. The buyers will want a warranty so I'd say new in that case.
You guys are crazy!!!!!! But I love it , good luck and I would buy new and sell the old.
Looking forward to watching your journey with this boat 🛥
Awesome guys, thank you for your honesty.
I just found your channel.... I can't wait to watch the rest of your first rebuild, and then this new one. Next stop, your own HGTV series "Boat Flippers". :)
In your current situation, in that yard, and with the breadth of repairs you have, time is the enemy. The longer you are in the shed at $250 a day and the longer you have to wait for parts and materials is all going to blow up a budget. First thing, find out how long to get new replacement engines and sail drives and gens, hull materials needed to get you back on the water at a dock where you can do final fitting out at a lower cost than $250/day. Yes, that's sort of like many have suggested fixing the holes and side of the hull to get her floating and go somewhere else cheaper. But you need to know your time frames for all the critical stuff. If you need to replace the refridgerator, you can do that from a dock somewhere later. Engines and heavy metal and structural hull and superstructure need to be in the first wave once you know when that stuff will be available. Make it a boat first and a sailboat later. Once replaced, you can decide to recondition any of the working parts/engines etc. and sell them, sell them for parts or to another rehabber to work on. If you are keeping a 'young' boat, go for new and warrantee on the important mechanicals. Even with the higher cost, the time you save on your very expensive timeline will benefit you more. Good Luck! We're with you.
Use Coosa board for the floor panels. It’ll last forever.
What a lovely family.
It is great to think you are going to restore the boat ...BUT .from the costings point of view for the engines , if you can afford to buy new ones they will install very quickly without ongoing costs of yard rental. You may then remove the existing ones to refurb them off site, in your own time and eventually re-sell them. I have to agree with other coments that doing a quick patch up and moving the boat to another location may considerably reduce your cost in the long run.Great videos thanks, much more interesting than watching other channels on their holiday adventures!
Replace the engines and sell the parts….no brainer IMO. Otherwise you’ll constantly be worrying about them….or at least I know I would. I worry a bit about my yanmar and it’s never been dunked.