I do appreciate y'all having Traci on, she is in a very challenging position. So I do pray the Lord will continue to lead her. I love the heart she displayed. So I hope I don't come across as mean with my challenge to her viewpoint. We do see where Paul commends Phoebe but when we look at the role of a deacon as described in 1 Timothy 2. Scripture does not list teaching in this role. So we should not assume Phoebe disobeyed the scripture by assuming a role scripture prohibits for women. Everytime I've heard an egalitarian talk about various women they very often have made the assumption that the women mentioned in Romans 16:1 for example, operated in some type of opposition to what is written. And scripture does teach that the Spirit had been poured out like y'all were describing. And gifts given to all for the edifying of the body. But we can't ignore how scripture breaks down teaching roles within the church. The only area I see being prohibited by women is the Elder/ Bishop/Pastoral role over a congregation of men and women. From the passages in 1 Tim. 2,3 & Titus 1 primarily. So, although Priscilla and Aquila took Apollos and instructed him. Does that mean Priscilla was a pastor over a congregation of men and women? No, we must rely on what is written. I want to speak the truth in love so I hope this came across the right way. God bless y'all ministry!
As the one entrusted to carry the letter of romans, Phoebe was the one who would be the first to read the letter to the congregation and also would be the first to exegete.
Without taking a position here, I'm grateful for this series. I do want to point out that the word translated 'helper'/'benefactor' in Rom 16:2 doesn't necessarily imply having spiritual or teaching authority over people in a local church -- contrary to Tracy's expressed view here (@19:50). Several beats later, Paul includes himself in the group served by Phoebe. So, are we to understand that Phoebe had spiritual or teaching authority over Paul? Or was she simply a woman who provided support to his ministry? I think there are other arguments to make for this. But Paul's use of 'prostatis' here is not one, I think.
Just watched this 2.5 years later. This woman's testimony gives me hope for a day when those called can walk in their calling without feeling the need to apologize.
I always wondered about this verse, because it's not a one size fits all in this passage? For example if we follow this literally -What about women who don't have a husband? What if your husband is a non believer, or doesn't even read his bible? How can we go home and ask our husbands if they can't even teach us? There has to be more to that passage then being literal.
Thank you for having a woman on the show who explains the process SO many of us go through - what does the Bible say about my calling as a woman? What can I do? What can I not do? To answer Josh's question at the end of the broadcast...what can you do to not alienate egalitarians from having a theological conversation? Ahem...stop calling them heretics and false teachers. Super easy answer! Unfortunately...sorry to name names...but some of MacArthur's folks are terrified of us. Super hurtful! We totally believe the Apostle's Creed and read the Word of God! But so many Reformed folks act like we treat the Bible with absolute flippancy.
Egalitarians ARE all heretics and false teachers. Just like Satan who wanted to be in a higher position than that he was designed for, so do Egualiterians want a woman to be in a position that she wasn’t designed for. I don’t see much difference between egalitarians core beliefs and Lucifer’s.
This topic series really brings up a big question for me, an observation really between two camps; one says “ interpret scripture with scripture” or a more literal approach, and the other says “look at history and cultural context to help explain these texts”… it seems neither want to be in error, they’re wanting to walk in truth. So, is there a biblical reference that can help answer this dilemma? Do we have a passage that clearly says do or don’t ONLY use scripture to interpret scripture OR that clearly says do or don’t look into historical or cultural context? And if not, is THAT why these become “non-essentials” of our faith, like not main doctrine when it comes to our faith? Sincerely asking as wrestling with it, because it does have an impact on view…
I think that the way God done things originally is the most logical way to look at it. God said the only thing that wasn’t good is for man to be alone so he made the woman and brought her to Adam. The first thing the woman saw was God first. The first thing Adam saw after being created was God. They were both male and female to have dominion over the earth not each other. The Garden if you think about it would have been the shadowing of the first temple. It’s where God dwelt with man and woman first. That’s just the way I see it anyway.
You don’t need to have 1 and not the other when interpreting scripture. We need to take a historical grammatical and literary approach to scripture means that we interpret in light of the historical situation and grammatical options given the actual words and the way they are put together also known as syntax and grammer and then we need to see each book as a peice of literature written in a particular form that has rules and expectations for interpretation. So we use Scripture to interpret scripture and do biblical theology using clear texts to interpret the obscure. So it’s both and not 1 or the other.
@johndonnelly712 This is my take as well. I don't have a solid take overall yet, but part of doing good hermeneutics says you HAVE to include context. Looking at one verse and taking off with it is how we get some of the erroneous doctrines we have now. I would also say although testimony should not be put first, it should not be discarded. We all love a good road to Damascus conversation testimony, after all, and wouldn't be saying oh that was just you, not the Lord, in those cases.
19:48 I don't see anywhere in the text that Phoebe is a helper "over many". Rom. 16:2 ESV "...for she has been a patron of many and of myself as well" (καὶ γὰρ αὐτὴ προστάτις πολλῶν ἐγενήθη καὶ ἐμοῦ αὐτοῦ). If she uses the argument that Phoebe is over many then she must also say that Phoebe is "over" Paul. Phoebe is a good argument for woman deacons, but not for pastors. 21:03 Egalitarians need to stop torturing Galatians 3:28 and Colossians 3:11. Paul doesn't contradict himself and the context makes clear that this is not about gifts or positions of ministry, but the unity of the body of Christ. It doesn't say what they want it to say. It simply says that it doesn't matter if your male or female, you are one in Christ with each other and therefore also children of Abraham (Gal. 3:29). The passage is not speaking about gifts in the ministry. I'm sorry, she is a very kind person, but in essence, she had an experience where she felt God calling her to ministry and then based on that, she is trying to "exegete" these passages and find support for women as leaders/pastors. Furthermore, there is a danger in always talking about "God said/spoke" and "I felt that..." because then we are not open for correction from the Word.
Trying to hear all sides of this issue. I don’t currently hold any solid stance on it yet - just trying to find out what the Word says in its fullness on it but I lean more towards complimentarian view. With that said, I do wish she addressed the “as in all the churches of the saints” and “as in every place” wording that Paul uses in both passages. Those make me think that it’s not for just that time but rather for all of time. And it makes me skeptical when people seem to build doctrine off of an explanation of what they think was happening such as the lack of education idea which scripture is not clear about. It does not say that in the text. What do you guys think? I do think there are places for women in ministry as we see women doing so in scripture but just maybe not in a headship role.
I realize your comment was from 3 years ago, but you may be interested in listening to this teaching by Pastor Dean Odle on youtube: "Dean Odle EU - FGSM - Leadership #8: Women In Ministry?"
This episode helped me to appreciate your respect and professional approach for people from different world views and theological belief and convictions. This was hard to watch , very light on scriptural narrative and support from your guests position and overloaded with with how your guest thought and felt. Keep the faith ✌️
I've been listening to all the series on Women in Ministry. I'd say that in this video, the arguments are pretty much based on an experience. I think you know that experiences don't create principles, she pretty much speaks about her ideas, what's gone through, what she believes, what she thinks heard from God, etc., but not pretty based on Scriptures. Not beacuase there is a kind of "confirmation" they believe is from God, it means it's actually from God. there are many cultural and personal factors that would cause people to attend a church like hers and think it's correct, and then she would believe it's a confirmation. Sadly, this was very superficial compared to the previous ones.
The world's first evangelist was not only a woman but a former harlor. It was Mary Magdalene. After she saw Christ she ran to the disciples to tell them that He is risen.
44:31 The problem I have with the 'women weren't educated' argument is that the Apostle's were uneducated fishermen for the most part; in Acts 4:13 they are even described as 'ordinary and unschooled.' Jesus didn't choose them on the basis of philosophical or rhetorical prowess and nor did he reject their questions which don't come across as very learned either.
The Bible is quite clear on women in ministry and it’s not cultural, it’s actually the way God ordained things. A wide open door for apostasy, feminism!
I duno, I'm pretty skeptical... I don't see this panning out with the general mirrored relationship between God and man, husband and wife, and church leaders. I'm fine with wemon in ministry, there's plenty of examples in the Bible but I can't think of any as wemon in a position of authority in the context of like a pastor. (By all means reference one if you know of one) Her scriptural references seem... ehh... not as strong as I'd like to hear to make doctrine from, I'll leave it at that.
@@JesusIsComing1111 it is not their church it is His church! And you are right that Paul address Priscilla first in Roman's and Corinthians but Acts address Aquila first, so how do you explain that?
Is it okay for women to teach the children in church? It sounds like that should not be allowed (according to many of the comments here-women shouldn’t teach at all-women be silent) I’m confused about this. Can women teach other women?
It sucks that they didn’t press her as much as they should have. At least the guys pressed the ceasonlist. Pretty much she had a free ride to teach without being challenged
Philip had 4 daughters, all prophets, Lydia and Pricilla were leaders and teachers, Junia was an apostle, and Phoebe was a DEACON....the Bible is egalitarian....period
I know Khris from attending Bethel for years. He is the real deal. I think it would be funny if Heidi Baker we're to walk onto the RR set. It's really hard to argue with fruit that remains.
1 Corinthians 14:34... is about St. Paul telling the Christians that any "Spiritual/Religious Women who claimed to be Christian should/must learn how to respect SILENT in the Church of God and must not teach over Men about Church matter... This commandment is not from St. Paul but from God for St. Paul is fully guided by the Holy Spirit, what to speak, teach, and write... God has valid reasons that all Christian Women should/must respect God's PREROGATIVE or WILL: 1. God, first created ADAM, in God's Image and Likeness, and from ADAM bone (rib) and flesh, came EVE called Woman which means "Came from Man." (ref.: Genesis 2:7-18) 2. It was ADAM and not EVE, that God commanded to SUBDUE (rule) and give Names to all God's creation, and whatever ADAM named them, so be it... (ref.: Genesis 2:19) 3. It was EVE that was DECEIVED by Satan (Old Serpent in the Garden of Eden) and ADAM was DECEIVED by EVE to disobey God by offering him to eat the forbidden fruit that caused them to LOSE their IMMORTALITY and BONDAGE (TIES) of Relationship to God thru their SIN... (ref.: 1 Timothy 2:14)... For The Wages of SIN is DEATH commonly called the ORIGINAL SIN of Mankind at the Garden of Eden... 4. The Head of Christ Jesus is God, and the Head of every Man is Christ Jesus, while the Head of every Woman is Man... (ref.: 1 Corinthians 11:3-4). 5. Man does not need to cover their head while praying or doing service to the Church of God, but Women must cover their Head with VEIL to hide their hair when praying or doing service to the Church of God as a sign of MODESTY, HONOR to her Husband (if married) and TOTAL SUBMISSION to the Authority of the Church... (Ref. 1 Corinthians 11:5-13) 6. God had chosen Man to carry the ANCESTRAL LINEAGE NAME of his own descendants... for example, Yeshua bin Yosef (Jesus son of Joseph), Israel (children of Jacob) descendant of Abraham,... till in our modern time, still been practiced, the Husband's FAMILY NAME always carried by his own Children (biologically or not)... These are some of God's reasons (prerogative/will) dictated by the Holy Spirit in St. Paul's Epistles... Facts and Truth, Biblically speaking... Amen... In conclusion, if Christian women loved Christ Jesus, they should KEEP Christ Jesus' commandments taught by St. Paul who was taken by God to the 3rd Heaven through Vision... Amen.
I just can’t understand why you would have this guest on about this topic. If you want perspectives from a Biblical standpoint you are barking up the wrong tree. The interviewers have had to “bumper” and prop this guest up over and over just to produce a semblance of a coherent argument. Love you guys, love your stuff. But this one is way off.
I notice that women who preach nd lead outside the biblical bounds also get their reasoning from the experiential. They also tend to be in NAR camps but not always. I was not at all surprised to hear she is similar. That is not to say God cannot use her in any capacity but much of what she said is quite questionable. As a woman who is very, VERY passionate about the lost, about God's word, and about doing God's work, I understand the frustration of perhaps feeling held back by biblical bounds. With that said, I also understand how much easier it is for us, as women, to be decieved and carried away by our emotions. I am thankful, even as a teacher of God's word, that God created my husband to be the head of household. I see zero room for there to be any question as Paul clearly lays out that both marriage and the church are a picture of God's headship over us. But, as always, we want to take the reigns. But to be honest, whenever someone tells me they heard the audible voice of God, I stop listening. Especially when this voice is telling them to do something the Bible says not to do.
In GENERAL, Yes, all Women who practice CHRISTIANITY should learn HOW to be "SILENT/QUIET" with modesty and humbleness when it comes to the CHURCH and Spiritual matters for that is the WILL of God... unless God Himself appointed a real PROPHETRESS if no man is qualified to do the task of God... We do not want to 'Put God in the Box," figuratively speaking... All Christian Women should look upon the modesty and humble obedient example of BLESSED MARY, even though she has found "HIGHLY FAVORED" from God and with "FULL of GRACE" from the Holy Spirit than any Apostles, Disciples, Martyrs, and Saints... Blessed Mary practiced till her death to be SILENT/QUIET in the CHURCH of God in Christ.... Facts and Truth of the Matters. BLESSED MARY will always be the True Model for all CHRISTIAN WOMEN with modesty, humbleness, and obedience (total submission) to the WILL of God... She said to Angel Gabriel, "I am the hand-made of the Lord thy God, be it done to me according to thy Words." ... Not our own WILL, but God's WILL be done... Glory, Praise, and Thanks be to God in Christ Jesus' name... Amen.
Jesus laying down his life is submission to the Father and lowers himself to build up the church. That is Christ-like leadership. I am not sure why someone would automatically think that mutual submission is not from God.... that is what the Father models. Strong leaders don’t have a problem building up those under them.
If anyone wants to find out more about Tracy, listen to her Sid Roth episode this past March 2021. She's "selling" some dubious claims like how to "unlock" God's voice and will. Really be careful about this woman.
Actually, it's the anti-female crowd who is twisting scripture and cherry-picking verses out of their context in order to conform to the worldly, sinful tendency towards male entitlement that is pervasive in the church. Now, go tell Jesus that he was wrong in having Mary Magdalene go teach the males about his resurrection.
You ladies please bear in mind, on your coming Judgment Day you will be judged on your willingness and obedience to the Divinely endorsed Scripture teachings and instructions that follow. Now, regarding the false teaching for the emancipation of women in the Christian fraternity. Such 21st-century contrived beliefs are in contravention and defiance of the Lord's command for women to remain silent in the church assemblies. "As [is the practice] in all the churches of the saints (God's people), 34 The women should keep quiet in the churches, for they are not authorized to speak, but should take a secondary and subordinate place, just as the Law also says. 35 But if there is anything they want to learn, they should ask their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to talk in church [ for her to usurp and exercise authority over men in the church]. 36 What! Did the word of the Lord originate with you [Corinthians], or has it reached only you? 37 If anyone thinks and claims that he is a prophet [filled with and governed by the Holy Spirit of God and inspired to interpret the divine will and purpose in preaching or teaching] or has any other spiritual endowment, let him understand (recognize and acknowledge) What what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord**. 38 But if anyone disregards or does not recognize [ that it is a command of the Lord], he is disregarded and not recognized [he is one whom God knows not]. 1 Corinthians 14:33-38 (AMPLIFIED ,BIBLE) Thus if any insist on disregarding the Lord's command for a woman's silence they have become "One whom God knows not" Which is a most undignified and ungodly position any man or woman could possibly find themselves. For even St. Paul's instruction makes it quite plain that women are forbidden to teach men and must not usurp their God given authority. "11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression" 1 Timothy 2:10-14 (KJV) As for wives and their Divinely appointed permanent position in regards to their husbands. "22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. "Ephesians 5:22-24 (KJV) Thus complete obedience "in everything" to husbands, just as the church is called to be completely obedient to the laws and instructions of Christ and his personally ordained Apostles. Now from St. Peter: "You married women, be submissive to your own husbands [subordinate yourselves as being secondary to and dependent on them, and adapt yourselves to them], so that even if any do not obey the Word [of God], they may be won over not by discussion but by the [godly] lives of their wives, 2 When they observe the pure and modest way in which you conduct yourselves, together with your reverence [for your husband; you are to feel for him all that reverence includes: to respect, defer to, revere him-to honor, esteem, appreciate, prize, and, in the human sense, to adore him, that is, to admire, praise, be devoted to, deeply love, and enjoy your husband]." 1 Peter 3:1-2 (AMPLIFIED BIBLE) And St. Peter again: "5 For it was thus that the pious women of old who hoped in God were [accustomed] to beautify themselves and were submissive to their husbands [adapting themselves to them as themselves secondary and dependent upon them]. 6 It was thus that Sarah obeyed Abraham [following his guidance and acknowledging his headship over her by] calling him lord (master, leader, authority). And you are now her true daughters if you do right and let nothing terrify you [not giving way to hysterical fears or letting anxieties unnerve you]." 1 Peter 3:5-6 (AMPLIFIED BIBLE) Those wives who refuse to comply are not the true "Daughters of Sarah" but counterfeits who are trying to subvert other women into disobeying Christ's personally ordained Apostles, and their unchanging instructions for the true and faithful Daughters of Almighty God. For the Lord Christ has stated....By their fruits shall you know them".
Galatians 5 “Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.” Galatians 5:2-4
But is prosperity gospel really what God calls his "temple"? $2,500 for her group "coaching course" of 2 hrs once a week for a a couples months to show how to "level up in life". Squirrelly.
Lots of people are called deacons, and it has nothing to do with authority. Nor does Romans say Phoebe was a deacon "over" anyone. She's just making stuff up. : You guys need to do a better job. Look how many of these comments are completely taken by this woman, saying she has a wonderful heart (of disobedience and lies?) and is in God's will for marriage and ministry (again, by disobeying?). If you're going to platform loonbags, make sure you get the truth out there. Otherwise, you're just promoting their sin.
This woman is a liar. She can't exegete, and she's ignorant of the culture. The irony of her saying women were only told to be quiet because they were ignorant. Well, even if that were the case, she should probably obey it.
The lady is very misinformative and deceitful smh She claimed that Phebe was a Deacon just because Paul labeled her a servant. But the word Deacon is in the Bible so why wouldn't Paul label her that if it was her position?? The Bible clearly states the exact criteria for a Deacon/preacher & women don't qualify. So I rebuke this lady for trying to confuse ppl because God is very clear..the scripture says give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings -Proverbs 31:3
It is exactly the word translated "deacon" that appears in Roman 16. If you look at. Bible that shows the Greek (there are apps available) this is clear. Whether she is right or wrong on beliefs it is arrogant to throw around accusations so stridently when you haven't done sufficient research yourself.
Hmm. I see you have apparently swallowed the teachings of modern freudian secular psychology. Also you dismiss someone's testified experience with God as demonic. Have you met this woman? Be careful.
Please tell me anywhere in the word of God that He says He no longer will talk to us audibly? He spoke to people from the front to the back. To say that He doesn’t is to take away from the Word. The Word is there to help teach us who God is. It very very clearly teaches us of a God who speaks. To everyone from a runaway slave girl to a hight priest. If you think you do not need His voice, you are tragically missing out. Read the Word and ask God who He IS, the same yesterday today and forever. His desire is to walk WITH us.
@@angierobshaw1741 I think we all know God CAN speak to us audibly if He wants to. But for the most part its hard for me to believe that this is a common occurrence or that it happens at all. We have God's Word, He has spoken! When people say they've heard God's voice audibly, alarm bells should go off! Why? Because the Scripture says to "test the spirits" to see if they are of God. Don't just believe these things cart blanche, because there are many false prophets and teachers manipulating those of us Christians that don't read the Bible. Just be skeptical, that's all.
I do appreciate y'all having Traci on, she is in a very challenging position. So I do pray the Lord will continue to lead her. I love the heart she displayed. So I hope I don't come across as mean with my challenge to her viewpoint. We do see where Paul commends Phoebe but when we look at the role of a deacon as described in 1 Timothy 2. Scripture does not list teaching in this role. So we should not assume Phoebe disobeyed the scripture by assuming a role scripture prohibits for women. Everytime I've heard an egalitarian talk about various women they very often have made the assumption that the women mentioned in Romans 16:1 for example, operated in some type of opposition to what is written. And scripture does teach that the Spirit had been poured out like y'all were describing. And gifts given to all for the edifying of the body. But we can't ignore how scripture breaks down teaching roles within the church. The only area I see being prohibited by women is the Elder/ Bishop/Pastoral role over a congregation of men and women. From the passages in 1 Tim. 2,3 & Titus 1 primarily. So, although Priscilla and Aquila took Apollos and instructed him. Does that mean Priscilla was a pastor over a congregation of men and women? No, we must rely on what is written. I want to speak the truth in love so I hope this came across the right way. God bless y'all ministry!
Very well said.
As the one entrusted to carry the letter of romans, Phoebe was the one who would be the first to read the letter to the congregation and also would be the first to exegete.
Without taking a position here, I'm grateful for this series. I do want to point out that the word translated 'helper'/'benefactor' in Rom 16:2 doesn't necessarily imply having spiritual or teaching authority over people in a local church -- contrary to Tracy's expressed view here (@19:50). Several beats later, Paul includes himself in the group served by Phoebe. So, are we to understand that Phoebe had spiritual or teaching authority over Paul? Or was she simply a woman who provided support to his ministry? I think there are other arguments to make for this. But Paul's use of 'prostatis' here is not one, I think.
@@nonchalantlamont9891 no, sir - I think we are to understand that Phoebe was given authority by Paul. That's the difference. :) God bless.
I loved this program! It was so respectful, honoring, and informative.
Patricia King thank you so much Patricia. You are welcome any time you fly into town. Just let me know your coming and I’d love to set up an interview
@ Patricia King you are welcome anytime you fly into Hilo Hawaii! Too 😄
Just watched this 2.5 years later. This woman's testimony gives me hope for a day when those called can walk in their calling without feeling the need to apologize.
I always wondered about this verse, because it's not a one size fits all in this passage? For example if we follow this literally -What about women who don't have a husband? What if your husband is a non believer, or doesn't even read his bible? How can we go home and ask our husbands if they can't even teach us? There has to be more to that passage then being literal.
Thank you for having a woman on the show who explains the process SO many of us go through - what does the Bible say about my calling as a woman? What can I do? What can I not do? To answer Josh's question at the end of the broadcast...what can you do to not alienate egalitarians from having a theological conversation? Ahem...stop calling them heretics and false teachers. Super easy answer! Unfortunately...sorry to name names...but some of MacArthur's folks are terrified of us. Super hurtful! We totally believe the Apostle's Creed and read the Word of God! But so many Reformed folks act like we treat the Bible with absolute flippancy.
Egalitarians ARE all heretics and false teachers. Just like Satan who wanted to be in a higher position than that he was designed for, so do Egualiterians want a woman to be in a position that she wasn’t designed for. I don’t see much difference between egalitarians core beliefs and Lucifer’s.
BTW I’m not a Calvinist, and I am a continuationist.
Not a fan of MacArthur at all. I don’t think Lordship Salvationist are even saved.
This topic series really brings up a big question for me, an observation really between two camps; one says “ interpret scripture with scripture” or a more literal approach, and the other says “look at history and cultural context to help explain these texts”… it seems neither want to be in error, they’re wanting to walk in truth. So, is there a biblical reference that can help answer this dilemma? Do we have a passage that clearly says do or don’t ONLY use scripture to interpret scripture OR that clearly says do or don’t look into historical or cultural context? And if not, is THAT why these become “non-essentials” of our faith, like not main doctrine when it comes to our faith? Sincerely asking as wrestling with it, because it does have an impact on view…
I think that the way God done things originally is the most logical way to look at it. God said the only thing that wasn’t good is for man to be alone so he made the woman and brought her to Adam. The first thing the woman saw was God first. The first thing Adam saw after being created was God. They were both male and female to have dominion over the earth not each other. The Garden if you think about it would have been the shadowing of the first temple. It’s where God dwelt with man and woman first. That’s just the way I see it anyway.
You don’t need to have 1 and not the other when interpreting scripture. We need to take a historical grammatical and literary approach to scripture means that we interpret in light of the historical situation and grammatical options given the actual words and the way they are put together also known as syntax and grammer and then we need to see each book as a peice of literature written in a particular form that has rules and expectations for interpretation. So we use Scripture to interpret scripture and do biblical theology using clear texts to interpret the obscure. So it’s both and not 1 or the other.
@johndonnelly712 This is my take as well. I don't have a solid take overall yet, but part of doing good hermeneutics says you HAVE to include context. Looking at one verse and taking off with it is how we get some of the erroneous doctrines we have now. I would also say although testimony should not be put first, it should not be discarded. We all love a good road to Damascus conversation testimony, after all, and wouldn't be saying oh that was just you, not the Lord, in those cases.
I can't stop watching this episode. She is awesome! She is going to encourage so many people with her story.
Carmel Crunk I agree completely! Jesus really used this to speak to me and to set me free.
I love her passion and zeal for being a minister of the Gospel. I have to respect that, even if I wasnt totally won over by her argument.
Great job Traci!!!!
19:48 I don't see anywhere in the text that Phoebe is a helper "over many". Rom. 16:2 ESV "...for she has been a patron of many and of myself as well" (καὶ γὰρ αὐτὴ προστάτις πολλῶν ἐγενήθη καὶ ἐμοῦ αὐτοῦ). If she uses the argument that Phoebe is over many then she must also say that Phoebe is "over" Paul. Phoebe is a good argument for woman deacons, but not for pastors.
21:03 Egalitarians need to stop torturing Galatians 3:28 and Colossians 3:11. Paul doesn't contradict himself and the context makes clear that this is not about gifts or positions of ministry, but the unity of the body of Christ. It doesn't say what they want it to say. It simply says that it doesn't matter if your male or female, you are one in Christ with each other and therefore also children of Abraham (Gal. 3:29). The passage is not speaking about gifts in the ministry.
I'm sorry, she is a very kind person, but in essence, she had an experience where she felt God calling her to ministry and then based on that, she is trying to "exegete" these passages and find support for women as leaders/pastors. Furthermore, there is a danger in always talking about "God said/spoke" and "I felt that..." because then we are not open for correction from the Word.
Trying to hear all sides of this issue. I don’t currently hold any solid stance on it yet - just trying to find out what the Word says in its fullness on it but I lean more towards complimentarian view. With that said, I do wish she addressed the “as in all the churches of the saints” and “as in every place” wording that Paul uses in both passages. Those make me think that it’s not for just that time but rather for all of time. And it makes me skeptical when people seem to build doctrine off of an explanation of what they think was happening such as the lack of education idea which scripture is not clear about. It does not say that in the text. What do you guys think? I do think there are places for women in ministry as we see women doing so in scripture but just maybe not in a headship role.
I realize your comment was from 3 years ago, but you may be interested in listening to this teaching by Pastor Dean Odle on youtube: "Dean Odle EU - FGSM - Leadership #8: Women In Ministry?"
This episode helped me to appreciate your respect and professional approach for people from different world views and theological belief and convictions. This was hard to watch , very light on scriptural narrative and support from your guests position and overloaded with with how your guest thought and felt.
Keep the faith ✌️
Her face when Josh said "there's a little poop on the ground" was priceless.
Since Paul uses anthropomorphic terms in Eps 5, does the head and body have a egalitarianism relationship or complimentarian relationship?
I've been listening to all the series on Women in Ministry. I'd say that in this video, the arguments are pretty much based on an experience. I think you know that experiences don't create principles, she pretty much speaks about her ideas, what's gone through, what she believes, what she thinks heard from God, etc., but not pretty based on Scriptures. Not beacuase there is a kind of "confirmation" they believe is from God, it means it's actually from God. there are many cultural and personal factors that would cause people to attend a church like hers and think it's correct, and then she would believe it's a confirmation.
Sadly, this was very superficial compared to the previous ones.
Tracy, sounds like you and your husband are walking out God’s call for marriage and ministry. God bless.
The world's first evangelist was not only a woman but a former harlor.
It was Mary Magdalene.
After she saw Christ she ran to the disciples to tell them that He is risen.
She actually wasn’t a Harlot or prostitute.
44:31 The problem I have with the 'women weren't educated' argument is that the Apostle's were uneducated fishermen for the most part; in Acts 4:13 they are even described as 'ordinary and unschooled.' Jesus didn't choose them on the basis of philosophical or rhetorical prowess and nor did he reject their questions which don't come across as very learned either.
Good session.
I wonder if John MacArthur would tell Traci to "Go home" like he told Beth Moore?
The Bible is quite clear on women in ministry and it’s not cultural, it’s actually the way God ordained things. A wide open door for apostasy, feminism!
💗🙏🙌📖
You should have Jackie Pullinger on! Chasing the Dragon.
I duno, I'm pretty skeptical... I don't see this panning out with the general mirrored relationship between God and man, husband and wife, and church leaders.
I'm fine with wemon in ministry, there's plenty of examples in the Bible but I can't think of any as wemon in a position of authority in the context of like a pastor. (By all means reference one if you know of one)
Her scriptural references seem... ehh... not as strong as I'd like to hear to make doctrine from, I'll leave it at that.
Priscilla and Aquila and then church in their home. It was “their” church and her name is mentioned first even. Idt that’s a coincidence.
@@JesusIsComing1111 it is not their church it is His church! And you are right that Paul address Priscilla first in Roman's and Corinthians but Acts address Aquila first, so how do you explain that?
KEAWE7 Royale Priesthood? What are you talking about? And what does Paul mentionaing Aquila first in Acts have to do with anything?
Is it okay for women to teach the children in church? It sounds like that should not be allowed (according to many of the comments here-women shouldn’t teach at all-women be silent) I’m confused about this. Can women teach other women?
yes on both
This was awesome ty guys
It sucks that they didn’t press her as much as they should have. At least the guys pressed the ceasonlist. Pretty much she had a free ride to teach without being challenged
"Galitarianism"? Is that the term you are using?
Victory IsMine “egalitarianism”
Philip had 4 daughters, all prophets, Lydia and Pricilla were leaders and teachers, Junia was an apostle, and Phoebe was a DEACON....the Bible is egalitarian....period
Are they talking about prophecy, apostolic ministry or being a deacon or are they talking about a woman doing teaching ministry?
Kris Valotton does a really good teaching on 1 Corinthians 11. It is on TH-cam and the title is “Keep Quiet?”.
I know Khris from attending Bethel for years. He is the real deal. I think it would be funny if Heidi Baker we're to walk onto the RR set. It's really hard to argue with fruit that remains.
Lol she is teaching
he is also a false teacher
1 Corinthians 14:34... is about St. Paul telling the Christians that any "Spiritual/Religious Women who claimed to be Christian should/must learn how to respect SILENT in the Church of God and must not teach over Men about Church matter... This commandment is not from St. Paul but from God for St. Paul is fully guided by the Holy Spirit, what to speak, teach, and write...
God has valid reasons that all Christian Women should/must respect God's PREROGATIVE or WILL:
1. God, first created ADAM, in God's Image and Likeness, and from ADAM bone (rib) and flesh, came EVE called Woman which means "Came from Man." (ref.: Genesis 2:7-18)
2. It was ADAM and not EVE, that God commanded to SUBDUE (rule) and give Names to all God's creation, and whatever ADAM named them, so be it... (ref.: Genesis 2:19)
3. It was EVE that was DECEIVED by Satan (Old Serpent in the Garden of Eden) and ADAM was DECEIVED by EVE to disobey God by offering him to eat the forbidden fruit that caused them to LOSE their IMMORTALITY and BONDAGE (TIES) of Relationship to God thru their SIN... (ref.: 1 Timothy 2:14)... For The Wages of SIN is DEATH commonly called the ORIGINAL SIN of Mankind at the Garden of Eden...
4. The Head of Christ Jesus is God, and the Head of every Man is Christ Jesus, while the Head of every Woman is Man... (ref.: 1 Corinthians 11:3-4).
5. Man does not need to cover their head while praying or doing service to the Church of God, but Women must cover their Head with VEIL to hide their hair when praying or doing service to the Church of God as a sign of MODESTY, HONOR to her Husband (if married) and TOTAL SUBMISSION to the Authority of the Church... (Ref. 1 Corinthians 11:5-13)
6. God had chosen Man to carry the ANCESTRAL LINEAGE NAME of his own descendants... for example, Yeshua bin Yosef (Jesus son of Joseph), Israel (children of Jacob) descendant of Abraham,... till in our modern time, still been practiced, the Husband's FAMILY NAME always carried by his own Children (biologically or not)...
These are some of God's reasons (prerogative/will) dictated by the Holy Spirit in St. Paul's Epistles... Facts and Truth, Biblically speaking... Amen...
In conclusion, if Christian women loved Christ Jesus, they should KEEP Christ Jesus' commandments taught by St. Paul who was taken by God to the 3rd Heaven through Vision... Amen.
I just can’t understand why you would have this guest on about this topic. If you want perspectives from a Biblical standpoint you are barking up the wrong tree. The interviewers have had to “bumper” and prop this guest up over and over just to produce a semblance of a coherent argument.
Love you guys, love your stuff. But this one is way off.
I support you Tracy. I felt the calling in my youth but not sure what that is
I love to study the Word
Story of Ruth
I notice that women who preach nd lead outside the biblical bounds also get their reasoning from the experiential. They also tend to be in NAR camps but not always. I was not at all surprised to hear she is similar.
That is not to say God cannot use her in any capacity but much of what she said is quite questionable.
As a woman who is very, VERY passionate about the lost, about God's word, and about doing God's work, I understand the frustration of perhaps feeling held back by biblical bounds. With that said, I also understand how much easier it is for us, as women, to be decieved and carried away by our emotions. I am thankful, even as a teacher of God's word, that God created my husband to be the head of household. I see zero room for there to be any question as Paul clearly lays out that both marriage and the church are a picture of God's headship over us. But, as always, we want to take the reigns.
But to be honest, whenever someone tells me they heard the audible voice of God, I stop listening. Especially when this voice is telling them to do something the Bible says not to do.
In GENERAL, Yes, all Women who practice CHRISTIANITY should learn HOW to be "SILENT/QUIET" with modesty and humbleness when it comes to the CHURCH and Spiritual matters for that is the WILL of God... unless God Himself appointed a real PROPHETRESS if no man is qualified to do the task of God... We do not want to 'Put God in the Box," figuratively speaking...
All Christian Women should look upon the modesty and humble obedient example of BLESSED MARY, even though she has found "HIGHLY FAVORED" from God and with "FULL of GRACE" from the Holy Spirit than any Apostles, Disciples, Martyrs, and Saints... Blessed Mary practiced till her death to be SILENT/QUIET in the CHURCH of God in Christ.... Facts and Truth of the Matters.
BLESSED MARY will always be the True Model for all CHRISTIAN WOMEN with modesty, humbleness, and obedience (total submission) to the WILL of God... She said to Angel Gabriel, "I am the hand-made of the Lord thy God, be it done to me according to thy Words." ... Not our own WILL, but God's WILL be done...
Glory, Praise, and Thanks be to God in Christ Jesus' name... Amen.
Are we gonna talk about Genesis 3:16 where the all domination over wife come from?
Jesus laying down his life is submission to the Father and lowers himself to build up the church. That is Christ-like leadership. I am not sure why someone would automatically think that mutual submission is not from God.... that is what the Father models. Strong leaders don’t have a problem building up those under them.
If anyone wants to find out more about Tracy, listen to her Sid Roth episode this past March 2021. She's "selling" some dubious claims like how to "unlock" God's voice and will. Really be careful about this woman.
The Bible clearly forbids women to pastor a church. Your twisting scripture to fit your narrative.
Actually, it's the anti-female crowd who is twisting scripture and cherry-picking verses out of their context in order to conform to the worldly, sinful tendency towards male entitlement that is pervasive in the church. Now, go tell Jesus that he was wrong in having Mary Magdalene go teach the males about his resurrection.
You ladies please bear in mind, on your coming Judgment Day you will be
judged on your willingness and obedience to the Divinely endorsed
Scripture teachings and instructions that follow.
Now, regarding the false teaching for the emancipation of women in the Christian fraternity.
Such 21st-century contrived beliefs are in contravention and
defiance of the Lord's command for women to remain silent in the church
assemblies.
"As [is the practice] in all the churches of the saints (God's people),
34 The women should keep quiet in the churches, for they are not
authorized to speak, but should take a secondary and subordinate place,
just as the Law also says.
35 But if there is anything they want to learn, they should ask
their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to talk in
church [ for her to usurp and exercise authority over men in the
church].
36 What! Did the word of the Lord originate with you [Corinthians], or has it reached only you?
37 If anyone thinks and claims that he is a prophet [filled with and
governed by the Holy Spirit of God and inspired to interpret the divine
will and purpose in preaching or teaching] or has any other spiritual
endowment, let him understand (recognize and acknowledge)
What what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord**.
38 But if anyone disregards or does not recognize [ that it is a
command of the Lord], he is disregarded and not recognized [he is one
whom God knows not].
1 Corinthians 14:33-38 (AMPLIFIED ,BIBLE)
Thus if any insist on disregarding the Lord's command for a woman's silence they have become "One whom God knows not"
Which is a most undignified and ungodly position any man or woman could possibly find themselves.
For even St. Paul's instruction makes it quite plain that women
are forbidden to teach men and must not usurp their God given authority.
"11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression"
1 Timothy 2:10-14 (KJV)
As for wives and their Divinely appointed permanent position in regards to their husbands.
"22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the
Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the
head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as
the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own
husbands in every thing. "Ephesians 5:22-24 (KJV)
Thus complete obedience "in everything" to husbands, just as the
church is called to be completely obedient to the laws and instructions
of Christ and his personally ordained Apostles.
Now from St. Peter:
"You married women, be submissive to your own husbands [subordinate
yourselves as being secondary to and dependent on them, and adapt
yourselves to them], so that even if any do not obey the Word [of God],
they may be won over not by discussion but by the [godly] lives of their
wives,
2 When they observe the pure and modest way in which you conduct
yourselves, together with your reverence [for your husband; you are to
feel for him all that reverence includes: to respect, defer to, revere
him-to honor, esteem, appreciate, prize, and, in the human sense, to
adore him, that is, to admire, praise, be devoted to, deeply love, and
enjoy your husband]."
1 Peter 3:1-2 (AMPLIFIED BIBLE)
And St. Peter again:
"5 For it was thus that the pious women of old who hoped in God were
[accustomed] to beautify themselves and were submissive to their
husbands [adapting themselves to them as themselves secondary and
dependent upon them].
6 It was thus that Sarah obeyed Abraham [following his guidance and
acknowledging his headship over her by] calling him lord (master,
leader, authority).
And you are now her true daughters if you do right and let nothing
terrify you [not giving way to hysterical fears or letting anxieties
unnerve you]."
1 Peter 3:5-6 (AMPLIFIED BIBLE)
Those wives who refuse to comply are not the true "Daughters of
Sarah" but counterfeits who are trying to subvert other women into
disobeying Christ's personally ordained Apostles, and their unchanging
instructions for the true and faithful Daughters of Almighty God.
For the Lord Christ has stated....By their fruits shall you know them".
Galatians 5
“Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.”
Galatians 5:2-4
In the Laodicea of Cessationism, Dallas, the Lord is placing his spies! And every intelligence agency uses women.
But is prosperity gospel really what God calls his "temple"? $2,500 for her group "coaching course" of 2 hrs once a week for a a couples months to show how to "level up in life". Squirrelly.
Lots of people are called deacons, and it has nothing to do with authority. Nor does Romans say Phoebe was a deacon "over" anyone. She's just making stuff up.
:
You guys need to do a better job. Look how many of these comments are completely taken by this woman, saying she has a wonderful heart (of disobedience and lies?) and is in God's will for marriage and ministry (again, by disobeying?). If you're going to platform loonbags, make sure you get the truth out there. Otherwise, you're just promoting their sin.
This woman is a liar. She can't exegete, and she's ignorant of the culture. The irony of her saying women were only told to be quiet because they were ignorant. Well, even if that were the case, she should probably obey it.
The lady is very misinformative and deceitful smh She claimed that Phebe was a Deacon just because Paul labeled her a servant. But the word Deacon is in the Bible so why wouldn't Paul label her that if it was her position?? The Bible clearly states the exact criteria for a Deacon/preacher & women don't qualify. So I rebuke this lady for trying to confuse ppl because God is very clear..the scripture says give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings -Proverbs 31:3
It is exactly the word translated "deacon" that appears in Roman 16. If you look at. Bible that shows the Greek (there are apps available) this is clear. Whether she is right or wrong on beliefs it is arrogant to throw around accusations so stridently when you haven't done sufficient research yourself.
“The Lord talked to me audibly.” I don’t think so. Schizophrenic? Demonic?
Hmm. I see you have apparently swallowed the teachings of modern freudian secular psychology. Also you dismiss someone's testified experience with God as demonic. Have you met this woman? Be careful.
Reach Out Ministries , we have the word of God. Why would He talk audibly after He closed the canon of scripture. Have you any discernment at all?
I agree! This is a problem in the Christian world today, especially among the Prophets or "false prophets" as it seems.
Please tell me anywhere in the word of God that He says He no longer will talk to us audibly? He spoke to people from the front to the back. To say that He doesn’t is to take away from the Word. The Word is there to help teach us who God is. It very very clearly teaches us of a God who speaks. To everyone from a runaway slave girl to a hight priest. If you think you do not need His voice, you are tragically missing out. Read the Word and ask God who He IS, the same yesterday today and forever. His desire is to walk WITH us.
@@angierobshaw1741 I think we all know God CAN speak to us audibly if He wants to. But for the most part its hard for me to believe that this is a common occurrence or that it happens at all. We have God's Word, He has spoken! When people say they've heard God's voice audibly, alarm bells should go off! Why? Because the Scripture says to "test the spirits" to see if they are of God. Don't just believe these things cart blanche, because there are many false prophets and teachers manipulating those of us Christians that don't read the Bible. Just be skeptical, that's all.