Roboute Guilliman - The Greatest Primarch by PancreasNoWork - Reaction
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• Roboute Guilliman - Th...
The thing people need to understand about the codex is it was never meant to be a permanent fixture in the way that it stands now. The codex was meant to be amended and altered as time went on, but unfortunately Roboute wasn't there to do that, and because no marine would ever dare change the work of a Primarch, the necessary changes never came.
That’s the big thing about laws so many people don’t see. No code of law can last forever, especially unchanged. Hell, the founding fathers of the US intended for the government to go over the constitution every seven years or so to see what was still relevant and what might need to be added or changed
Can he do that now, though?
@@Gearshoot Yeah, of course G-Man can he's the one that wrote it to begin with.
@@Gearshoot Currently in the lore he’s amending the codex and folding it into his “codex Imperialis” which also includes a current history and restructuring of the Imperium as well as the chapters. Roboute isn’t done with it yet, but when last described in the book ‘Throne of Light’ it was as tall as a person and needed two serfs to carry it around on a lift of some kind. So yeah, big changes
@@quynlanvuorensyrja5484true however there are some that were ment to be permanent and it's exactly why it says "shall not be infringed " on some of them
Guilliman was the only primarch that seemed to truly understand what it took to build an empire.
Not just build but also keep it running effectively.
Given that ultramar is still the brightest spot of the imperium 10k years later it speaks volume just how well rob structured it.
He was actually better at empire building than his father the emperor
that's why I love him over the others, Guilliman was one of the few Primarchs that could legitimately keep the imperium from imploding into itself, mostly, someone you could use during and after the war is over
@@commissaryarrick9670 that's because like the primarchs he's so far removed from humanity that he couldn't even hope to understand them if he tried.
So when Guilliman woke up, he was like "Who's ready for a fistin'?"
To be fair. Those chaos bois were insistin' on a fistin'
He was just catching up on 10,000 years of morning exercise.
Also, hi Zeke. Was not expecting you here this morning.
Chaos sorcerer *Casting spells*
Gulliman:"I cast fist!"
I just wanna see Rowboat shoulder charge a chaos space marine
@@misplacedodst Considering the size and strength of a primarch compared to a normal marine, being shoulder charged by Rowboat would be a ticket on the pain train.
Leman only partially supported the codex because he told Gman that he would break up his legion into great companys basically pulling a fast one on him keeping his legion mostly whole.
Meanwhile the Dark Angels, without the Lion, basically divided themselves up into "chapters" but obeyed the Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels chapter like he was a replacement primarch.
@@sonofjack6286 best workaround in my opinion.
Regarding Dauntless Few, I think you have the wrong idea. It was NEVER about who Guilliman liked.
It was about who he could WORK WITH in a campaign / war the best.
Guilliman could not rely on the Khan, because the Khan was UNKNOWN to the Big-G and so the Khan was not one of the Dauntless Few.
Same the way Corax (who Guilliman LIKED) and his Raven Guard fought while it worked would not be compatible with the UM style of fighting or at least not enough to be one of the Dauntless Few.
Regarding your view on Guilliman shitting on others while using their tactics...well consider this line from the book Master of Mankind that was attributed to Big-G :
'Necessity overcomes morality,' Kaeria’s hands signed in the air before her breastplate. 'Never without regret. Never without shame. Yet even immoral victory must outweigh moral defeat. The victor will have a chance to atone if conscience demands. The vanquished lose any such opportunity.'
In other words it's all-right to use ANY method if it is NECESARY to secure victory.
Problem Guilliman had with Alpharius, Angron and others though was that most times their methods were not NECESSARY. Alpharius could still have won with more routine methods but chose not to.
Guilliman did resort to the same methods but only as a last resort. Not as a default.
Regarding the Codex:
You are ignoring one very important fact.
Guilliman was the MIDDLE-MAN between the Primarchs / Astartes and the High-lords / Humanity.
The High Lords (and Humanity) were distrust-ful of EVERY Primarch, every Legion...After all Horus was the most trusted and he still fell.
The High-Lords would NOT ALLOW the Legions to continue as is. The Codex Astartes was a COMPRIMISE that Guilliman pushed between the two sides.
The High-Lords wanted much more Restrictions then what the Codex Astartes gave. Heck the High-Lords wanted to break the Imperial Armed forces, that is why Guilliman separated the Imperial Army and Navy into two.
Dorn would have been declared a traitor not because Guilliman said so but because the High-Lords said so.
It was the Imperial Navy and not the Ultramarines that fired at Dorn's ship.
Yeah, given everything that Gilliman had on hand, the information he knew even if it was vage, and all things considered, he did what was best at the time even if there could have been thing's done better, the point is, he did what was best at the time and what they needed then more than ever
The dauntless few I feel are less Gulliman saying 'these brothers and their legions are the best' and more 'these brothers and their legions are the ones that compliment my legion and my style the best.' He knows what Ferrus, Rogal, Sanguinius, and Russ will do, he knows how they act, he knows how to compliment them. With the Lion he probably felt he was too secretive and wouldn't keep up informed whenever he pulled out some of the 'doomsday' weapons the Emperor let only the Lion have. And he probably felt that Corax was too unpredictable and his troops couldn't keep up or adapt fast enough to their irregular warfare, they'd position and be storming a point only for the Raven Guard to have just taken it, a lot of time wasted.
I always thought that too, it's why I hate it when people say Guillimen was picking favorites with his dauntless few
@@LoneWolf20213 yeah logic and reason aren't favoritism we dont add mayo to ice cream
Boss I think your losing context when it comes to Guilliiman forcing the other Primarchs into following the codex. Granted this coukd be me playing Devils advocate You have to remember Guilliman'l couldn't trust his brothers anymore not completely. Remember before the Heresy if you told him that horus would betray the Emperor he would have asked you where your meds where if you told him that fulgrim would like to have all his holes filled he would have killed you for insulting his brother in such a fashion. But Chaos corrupted some of the most loyal in his eyes so when it came to the Legions he had to act as a Inquisitor does and make sure there was no horus 2.0
Also a political move IMO. The Imperium no longer trust the Primarchs and the Space Marines. That's why they were so eager to follow Gulliman proposal. Gulliman know that his job is to work with the humans he's governing amd he can't work with a government that dislike him or his brother.
You’re friends are talking way too much though the video, I mean they don’t even wait for the guy to finish a sentence before making a joke every 30 seconds.
20:45 I mean tbf to Guilliman at that point I think the high lords were starting to have a lot of power and all the primarchs besides Guilliman were off being depressed or had the political skills of an angry potato. They were pretty pissed/afraid of the primarchs and didn't think of them as their gods son yet. Pretty sure it’s implied that the legions either broke up or civil war 2 electric boogaloo of space marines v normie humans was probably going to happen (space marines probably pull out a win but Guilliman thought that would be real dumb). I think we just mostly see it from the point of view of space marines or the primarchs that don’t really recognize the administratum/normal humans as anything worth remembering and just tie everything to Guilliman.
OMG the blue mood lighting
Counterpoint to your argument about guilliman bullying the other Primarks tell me which other Primark was capable of holding a empire together. Dorn is a builder, Russ is a barbarian, the lion is shortsighted, corax is cloak and dagger and vulkan is too kind. Guilliman was the ONLY Primark that could hold the impirium and the other Primarks like the lion and dorn are too stubborn to listen with words so they need brute force.
Right. If the imperial guards and the navy agreed with him would it be his fault then? Besides, half of the remaining loyalist Primarchs agreed with Gulliman how can it be considered bullying? Gulliman didn't even lie about his intentions, he presented his arguments and he gained the majority support. If anything, Dorn refusing to cooperate with everyone should be the one to be criticized.
@@minhducnguyen9276 yep as dorn proceeded to lead 90% of his legion to death before guilliman made him see some sense.
@@YOGI-kb9tg And then people act like:"OMG, the sociable guy got approval by everyone. This must be plot armor or he was cheating." Like hello, that kind of things tend to happen if you are the guy who is stubborn, refused to communicate and stomped out of the meeting room. Like if he thinks he's right, why didn't he try to convince Corax and Vulkan to agree with him? Or people think that Corax and Vulkan are idiots who didn't know better, that they can't think for themselves they had to follow Gulliman without asking questions?
I feel like this channel is false advertisement. After watching many of your videos, I have yet to see a single old man react to anything! No white hairs or wrinkles to be seen!
XD
I'm sorry man, I really like your videos and I don't want to be an asshole, but I feel like it's got to be said: the constant interruptions from your friend make it really hard to get through these. It wouldn't be so bad if he knew how to wait until you or the video weren't in the middle of making a point, or if he had something of substance to add, but for the most part he just doesn't on both counts.
Could you please start marking in the video title when you're doing a joint video with him? It would have the dual benefit of crediting him as a co-creator of sorts, and also give people like me fair warning to expect him if I decide to watch the video.
Yes to all of this.
Honestly think the Lion is overrated as far as return options. Yes he’s an impeccable general but you forget a one key thing, the Lion as a person. Out of any loyalist and yes I include Dorn in this I consider the Lion the most difficult to work with by a decent margin. While he is an excellent duelist and general he suffers from the same problem as the imperium as a whole, being his own worst enemy. His own horrendous mismanagement of his troops caused a mini-Horus heresy and he also has some lesser but still rather major blunders such as giving Perty his dark age tech(which I think puts a solid hole in that whole "impeccable instincts working outside of combat" thing).
What the imperium needs is a stable, consistent net gain that doesn’t stand to flip the table again. Personally I think the best loyalist to return would be Rogal Dorn(doubt they’d give a damned primarch and out of book death so I’ll count him as an option). Between Dorn’s skill in building and fortifying and Rowboat’s logistics they can spend time truly fixing the imperium’s planets once they’ve stabilized, something made all the easier if Dorn is helping improve the defenses of and convert planets into fortress worlds. The Lion is a fantastic general but he can’t be in five places at once, making his impact limited in ways that primarchs that don’t focus on things that constantly require their presence are not.
Malal does not Exist, Malice does.
For the chaotic blood of the 11th and their Chaos God Primarch and the Tragic Sacrifice of the 2nd Primarch still weighs heavy especially given how the Goddamn Magpies in Space are of the loins of the 2nd Primarch.
My Two Fave Primarchs is Jagatai and Vulcan. Love those two.
Oh, hey, it WAS the Lion next, good call.
People talk about which Primarch should return, but I seriously think a traitor Primarch redemption would be *way* more interesting.
Perturabo, for example, hates Chaos almost as much as he hates Big E; I can see him coming to the conclusion that he hates Guilliman less than he hates Chaos, and switching sides out of spite, if nothing else (though with the heavy Aspie coding he has, and my own experience of being one, I can also see a genuine redemption, but BL’d never go for that.)
Maccragge wasnt the only civilized world with a Primarch but it was one of the only Primarch homeworlds that wasn't a Death World.
Death Worlds is at least one marker for shithole start positions, another would be the civilizations on said world, Angron and Lorgar would have turned out fine if the civilizations on their homeworlds were better.
Guilliman and Magnus had the upside of not having extremely deadly worlds with pretty respectable civilizations.
Also Guilliman and his Legion werent the only ones to try diplomacy, in fact most Legions have, the World Eaters and maybe a few of the other Traitor Legions generally didnt bother, but the rest have, the 1st Legion has, the Imperial Fists have, the White Scars have, the Word Bearers have, the Space Wolves have, the Emperors Children have and as i said, most others have, they may not all be as successful as one another, but they have, the Legions generally didnt shoot on sight, until the Legion in question had a decent picture of what their going up against.
also yes, Lion absolutely should have been in the duantless few, especially considering Guillimans admiration for him.
I also highly doubt Guilliman wasnt allowed to spend more time improving worlds, i just think he wouldnt have had time to make sure every world met his standards by the time of the Heresy or even the end of the Heresy.
Also the 1st Legion probably could have competed with the 1st as well unless we get some new lore saying they magically lost over half of their legion cause the Ultramarines lost half of their legion at the start of the heresy wheras the 1st Legion was just spread thin, and Lion spent the bulk of the heresy with a 3rd of his legion initially and then a 6th in the latter half, so the 1st would need to have lost 50% of its Legion at some point during the Heresy to even be as low as the Ultramarines were at the start of the Heresy, let alone by the end of it.
I'd also add that Lion, Leman and Corax are also aware that they can fail, I'd also be surprised if Dorn somehow didnt either, Lion and Leman both hold themselves at least partialy responsible for not heading to Terra's defence sooner and Corax had his maturaty from the begining just like Guilliman as he was left to fight his war on his homeworld on his own and in doing so, realized the harsh realities of war.
In fact I think its safe to say that, at least after the Heresy, every loyalist is aware of their own falability as they all suffer the loss of the Emperor and either get their shit wrecked or have to come to terms with their own shortcomings and/or failings during the Heresy.
I still think the emperor was trying to push certain primarchs into falling. He treats Mortarian, Angerus, Lorgar and even Khan so poorly and almost abusively compared to the other primarchs.
No logar isn't even the greatest thing to take a shit on because mortaian exists. And pertu. No the only thing logar is good at is being a bird perch. A trusted souce told me this
Do I have terror to screaming vortex the Maelstrom the headaches anomaly and if you are the massive warp rifts
The whole debate over the second founding only really makes sense in the context of the worse form of government imaginable that existed in 40k. Splitting up chapters does not stop Adeptus Terra from organising large scale operations. Adeptus Terra stops Adeptus Terra from organisation large scale operations because they lost the part of the dictionary where "strategic direction" was defined.
Sure, in a world where the government is so crippled that a genestealer cult could be running it and nobody would be able to tell the difference, having all the Astartes split up into chapters means you cannot achieve anything major. However the answer is not to have gigantic force of personality driven legions but to fix the government.
Frankly it is almost certain the Emperor would have done something like the 2nd founding anyway. Assuming he didn't go for the Thunder Warrior retirement plan.
I actually disagree on the point ofnthe badab war if the claws had enough men to take that mini eye pf terror they would not have grown dissatisfied with the imperium and turned against then
Was looking forward for this Reaction, but your Friends constant interrupts with massive broken and Way too loud Audio ruined it for me, sorry.
I'm sorry if this is rude but the dude who kept talking is very annoying. May just be me though
Big E's character is really shown by how much effort he put into his sons. He knew Vulkan was a good boy who would be useful in the long run, so he actually spent the time doing father-son sports activities AND a hunting trip, on top of tutoring him for an unusually long time.
The second he sees Angron with his butcher's nails? All of the sudden Big E has no time to be a dad, his galactic conquest any % speedrun is more important than Angron's health, sanity and gladiator buddies.
I'm also particularly bitter about this decision because we were denied getting a legion of heroic, freedom-fighting marines with a kickass gladiator theme.
Also Angron was supposed to be the healer empath, Angron can't be that at all. Emps knew he was a lost cause at once and stopped caring.
I wonder if he was aware or not of the nails at the time of rescue. Both have bad implications but one’s arguably worse than the other.
If he saw the nails with his power then decided to rescue his son without his friends, then he’s a lazy ass that gave in far too quickly.
If only saw the nails after the rescue, then holy shit he straight up hated Angron from the start when he didn’t conquer the planet. It’s amazing that he didn’t just kill him from the start.
@@theonewhouploadsnothing1704 If memory serves he was vaguely familiar with the nails and attempted to have them removed but even his talents said they would kill angron if he attempted to do so.
That’s just poor writing.
Simple as
@silverkingisley6438 I believe that's from Master of Mankind near the beginning, where he has a tech priest help guess if they can take them out.
Pls tell your mate to be quit for at least 10 seconds. Commenting is good, but not every 10 seconds. Nothing against him, but the video would flow better with less interruptions.
Omg yes he needs to learn to be quiet for five minutes.
Sorry mate you’re not funny when you’re making jokes every minute you’re annoying.
Yeah.
Came here to say that.
No offence to your friends...but they keep interrupting every few seconds...
What was that old saying again, #blameStrider
Preach
Audio balance is more of an issue. So much louder than the source video
One of the many good characteristic of Gulliman is he actually take note from other Primarchs even the ones he dislikes to improve his strategies and tactics. He copied Perturabo siege units when he saw their effectiveness, minuted the spicy warheads that Perturabo would prefer to keep of course
“There just great white sharks lead by a megladon” is the most accurate description of the Space Sharks I have ever heard.
Guilliman played the long game. Able physically, but gave more attention to the logical aspect of things.
I feel like Guillamens indomitus crusade was better organized. But it probably helps that he didnt have 20 seperate generals with egos the size of solar systems to keep focused.
Angron should have been put down from the word go. That was the real mistake of the emperor.
@theredditexperience1I would say them and Corax, The khan and pre Horus fall cause we was always scared that people would think he had an ego getting warmaster.
Words can hurt, Jaghatai's words mutilate.
The ad I got before this video said something like "this may be heresy, butno warhammer game is complete without the tau." Then proceeded to talk about the tau in what I assume was a mobile game? Just wanted to let you know who's sponsoring you.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
EXTERMINATUS!!!! EXTERMINATUS NOW!
-Lord Inquisitor [REDACTED]
@@Archivist001 FACESMASH I KNOW THAT"S YOU!!!
Guillimom? Do you mean, *_Guillimilf?_*
Who needs Slaanesh when you have Guillimilf.
@@misplacedodst right!?
I placed your reaction in my favorite list. Ty old man needed this lol
25:35 BIG E, "PAPA SMURF!" 27:10 Cypher, "that was too close, now to mars to find the next prank victim." 28:07 Pope shaft-hat the 23rd, "so long you old trash-bags." 28:42 Guilliman had a better start then big E. 38:50 Angron HATED the emperor for good reason, Morty was unwilling to accept he lost and blamed the guy who saved him. 42:20 I just imagine some chaos marine thinking "YESS I KILLED GRANDPAPA SMURF!!!! wait why do is still hear boss music?" right before eating 6 sword slashes and six castings of FIST!!!!!
If I was to chose between the Emperor and Guilliman to rule the Imperium. I would chose Guilliman in a heartbeat.
Thanqoul and Most Powerful Skaven need your Attention Lord Commisar or Eshin may use warpborrow to make wrath on you inside your ship-ship yes-yes.
Your impersonation of a skaven is lacking
The King of Blueberries
I have to agree that Guilliman is a better statesman than the Emperor. The Emperor made many more, far more significant mistakes in running the Imperium than Guilliman has made in his whole lifespan.
I wonder how things would've changed if two Primarchs landed on the same world.
He should’ve kept the loyalist legions together but have smaller forces as well like the chapters to act as a rapid reaction force while the smaller forces meet the threat to a world or sector and hold the enemy in place then the legion smashes it with the force of ten thousand Timmy beatings which would also allow the chapters to replenish rapidly by pulling from the larger legion far better solution imo
Why did guiliman not value perturabo was it his attitude etc, I would’ve wanted Peter turbo, Dorn, Sanguinius, and maybe Alpharius/ Omegan if I couldn’t get Corvus Corax for my dauntless few
He liked Perturabo talent and dedication to the arts. But killing civilians just because it would be inconvenient choosing alternative options was what Gulliman can't agree with. Gulliman even copied Perturabo siege units but replaced the biochemical or nuclear warheads with conventional high explosives instead.
Because Peter Turbo was a bitter, whiny little bitch with a martyr complex. The dude literally chose the hardest and bloodiest way to accomplish every task, expected praise for it, and then sulked when everyone else just rolled their eyes at his pathetic demands that everyone honor him and his legion for their unnecessary and wasteful sacrifices. G-Man had no patience for Perty's self-defeating nonsense.
27:48 is that a tts reference
Wolfs could challenge Gulliman? How. They was after like 3 ultra beating. I would say Wolfs were most depleted legion after these on Istvan. They got rekt by Alfa Legion ... after thet by 1000 Sons ... after thet sucide run Sons of Horus.
The Lion maybe. But that's only because he has the emperor special treatment and get access to advanced weaponry and his legion is quite large, only behind the blueberries. But even then, it would be a mutual destruction if they try to invade Ultramar given how much manpower and resources Ultramar can pump out. They literally carried the Imperium post heresy.
I think it's more about the space wolves were in a way made to fight space marines very well. Plus Leman is a far better dualist than Roboogy
How did the angel do during the great crusade I think he was good at compliance by diplomacy or force if necessary
45:41 yes we do need more Eldar smut, yes even of the Drukhari
Out of all the ass takes I’ve heard from this channel about the boys in blue, the talk about the Dauntless Few definitely takes the cake.
Why in the eye of terror were the WOLVES on bord with the breaking up of the legions when they use it for toilet paper?
Initially Russ approved of the plan because spreading his legion will also spread his influence. Then it was discovered that it is impossible to recruit aspirants for the space wolves outside of Fenris due to some genetic complications therefore splitting the wolves would put them at risk of extinction.
Please do these reactions by yourself. These constant interruptions are extremely annoying.
God I wish we coulda got GoodGuy Angron
I don't know if the reason they think he punched a marine out of his armor is because Adeptus ridiculous said that in their Robute video but if you actually read the book or listen to the audio book, he punch the marine through a pillar. But I digress, out of his armor is way more absurd and 40kish that why not let's all just say that'd what happenef
Guilliman straight up says apart from the “dauntless few” there were two brothers he ever felt overshadowed by: Horus and the LION
Man that private is a talker. Commissar the Night Lord's wish to have a word with him.
I think Vulcan is the greatest "Primarch" tbh Guilliman isn't a real Primarch at least in function, he would be just as useful as a regular human (with an extended lifespan or as a Perpetual). The Primarchs really weren't created to lead the Imperium just it's armies, and Guilliman only being able to do so much (in terms of him splitting the Imperium to better run it) is a sign of that. But yes I agree Guilliman is exactly what the Imperium needed and another Primarch would not be able to do what he has done. Although I think Vulcan fits what the Emperor wanted the Primarchs to be the best, considering he was his favorite/most proud of son (The Emperor liked Sanguineous yes but it's known that he specifically was most proud of Vulkan retaining his humanity and by extension his legion)
Very idiotic statement
if the emperor wanted generals he could have given the Astartes to two or three custodes to rule them no he wanted more than generals he wanted rulers, dorn fortifies, perturabo builds, Corvus spied, alpharius infiltrates, Ferrus constructs and more each had a role beyond just a warrior