Onkyo 2021 8K AV Receivers vs. Pioneer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2021
- Onkyo 2021 8K AV Receivers vs. Pioneer - In this video we explore the recently launched 2021 Onkyo 8K AV Receivers with their RZ Series and NR Series lines and compare against existing models and the Pioneer Elite 2021 8K AV Receiver models. Covered is the TX-NR5100 ($599), TX-NR6100 ($799), TX-NR7100 ($1,099) and TX-RZ50 ($1,399).
This side-by-side comparison reveals differences and similarities with the models introduced using the previous platform design - the TX-RZ3100, TX-RZ1100, TX-RZ840, TX-NR797, TX-NR696 and TX-NR595.
Pioneer AV Receiver models compared include the SX-LX904, SX-LX704, VSX-LX505, VSX-LX305 and VSX-LX105.
See also Home Theater Fanatics Live! Featuring ONKYO / How to get the best sound from your theater. • Home Theater Fanatics ...
Jiles meets with Rob Viera and Rolf Hawkins, product managers with 11 Trading Company - the company that owns the Onkyo, Pioneer and Integra brands.
and companion Ripewave Audio video to this Onkyo video -
Pioneer Elite 2021 8K AV Receivers
• Pioneer Elite 2021 8K ...
Glowing review of Onkyo TX-RZ50 from Andrew Robinson -
The BEST RECEIVER for Home Theater? ONKYO TX-RZ50 REVIEW - 8K Receiver
• The BEST RECEIVER for ... - บันเทิง
BTW: EXTREMELY clear presentation. Your hard work was WELL worth it, sir!
Neal - thanks so much. Jon
Thank you so much for making these videos! I am certain they are a lot of work. Having made a few videos on my channel now I recognize how much time they can take. Keep up the good work!
I appreciate the encouragement from someone who creates quality content. Right back at you! -Jon
Hi, I don't have A/V expertise so I really appreciate your hard work in this clear presentation. I have been very interested in the Onkyo RZ50 for months now and plan on purchasing it. Thanks 👍👍
That’s all you need to know. Haha. You can’t go wrong on that one!
Outstanding. Truly helping with the dizzying array of choices, thank you!
So glad this content is helping with sorting out the choices. -Jon
Super helpful! You gave me the comparison I needed between the RZ50 and the NR7100. Since I have no intention of running separates I saved a few bucks and went with the 7100. Thank you!
Joe - I am glad the content helped you with your decision. Yes - when you can rule out a use case it is possible to avoid unnecessary functions and costs. -Jon
I'm looking at the 7100 myself & wanted to get your thoughts on Dirac Live.
How easy was it to setup & would you say it made a big difference ?
Thanks
Another amazing comparison Jon. Love your comment that Bluetooth lossless is coming. That will be interesting to see who adopts that in the near future. Disappointed these models do not support the Auro 3D auromatic upmixing codec. We use that format for just about every source we use including Atmos. Immersive audio is the future and that Auro 3D codec is phenomenal.
Thanks for giving such an interesting overview! The information to put all together was definitely a lot of work. Great work!
I’m a newcomer to your channel, I’m really glad I watched your video,now I can chose a lot easier the new av I’m looking for 2022. Thanks 🙏
Thomas - just getting caught up on May replies. I appreciate you listening in and glad you are finding value. Feel free to comment again as you view additional content.-Jon
Very detailed - I just came across your channel.
I prefer the Onkyo - a more evolved system, but I will not pull the trigger yet. The HDMI 2.1 issue is still quite buggy. Case in point - plugging in Playstation 5 at 4K/120hz works fine on a Vizio / but switching over to a Samsung QLED the frames dropped, or had audio but no picture. So in my opinion, I will wait until late 2022 to make a buying decision since there's no way to decipher if " its the Onkyo's fault" or " its the Samsung EARC 2.1 fault ". And since they is no 8K/60 Hz source content out there yet, and I cant envision it anytime in the next 18 months, there's simply no way to ensure this will even function properly.
Pioneer 505 on sale for $1300, I'm very pleased
Always good when there is a sale! -Jon
Very thorough.
This was a really great comparison of these models. I'm having a tough time deciding between the tx rz50 vs the new 7100. I want to future proof and have options for a different house someday, but initially I'm only doing a 5.1.2 setup for now.
Glad you found the content useful. Given the feature sets between these two models is so similar I think it comes down to your amplifier requirements. The RZ-50 have two important additional things to justify the +400 price premium.
1) 120watts/ch vs 100watts/ch
2) pre-amp outputs so you can use external amplifiers if you even need upgrade power for some channels.
If you have difficult to drive speakers, the added cost for the RZ59 may be worth it. Otherwise the 7100 will give you everything else.-Jon
@@ripewave is the quality of the signal output from the rz50 in any way better the. The nr7100, or is it the same dac and amp run at higher power limits?
I think the 20 watt difference is not a huge change, (rare to run my amp at nax power anyways) but i di care about clarity etc,
Is the sound quality the same ? Except the 20 watts power difference between RZ50 and NR7100 ? Thank you
Waiting for the RZ50 - hope it comes soon!
Yes - it is always difficult to wait for new gear to arrive. With all the production/shipping issues out there times are especially creating anxiety.-Jon
Great work! Thanks.
Glad you liked it!
You made me to take decision on buying the model which is going to be suit my requirements
So glad these video helped you assess which model was best for you. What did you decide on? -Jon
Good work. Thanks!
Happy to hear you enjoyed the content.-Jon
John, as always, awesome video. I watched it multiple times, with rewind and fast-forward multiple times, and I would paise it and walk up to my TV and get a good close-up of various screenshots of the front back photos. My wife said that the two of us are both nerds :). Don’t know about you but I take it as a compliment.
One small mistake, although I’m not expecting you to edit the video, is that in the table showing the dimensions, for the VSX-LX305 you put in as 37.1 mm instead of 371 mm.
I am glad you have been finding value in the videos. Certainly a big difference before 37.1mm and 371mm. Some vendor specifications are in centimeters and others in millimeters. I have been using mm to avoid the decimal place in most cases. I wish TH-cam would allow for corrections without pulling down and loading a totally new video - comments and counts not preserved. -Jon
That’s a lot of work put in here. I appreciate your time and video. I’m a ONKYO person. Looking at the NR7100 when/if it’s available in Singapore.
I am glad you are finding this content useful. Hope you are able to purchase the NR7100 is Singapore.-Jon
Never had issues with Onkyo HDMI ports?
Thank you - Looking to purchase a DIRAC model soon so this is really helpful. I run a 5.2.2 system so leaning towards PIO LX305 or 505. Reccomendations?
A very thorough review! I was wondering about your comment that the LX305 has 9.1 Pre-outs. I don't see any of the 9 on the back panel (just the sub-woofer) nor do I see any mention of it on the Pioneer site. Am I missing something?
Also, in comparing NR7100 vs LX305, do you think that the THX certification is a major plus?
Thanks.
The outputs are a bit confusing. There are nine physical pairs of speaker terminals on the back
1) Front Right
2) Front Left
3) Center
4) Surround Right
5) Surround Left
6) Height 1 Right / Zone 2 Right
7) Height 1 Left / Zone 2 Left
8) Height 2 Right / Zone 3 Right
9) Height 2 Left / Zone 3 Left
All of which are amplified outputs. These channels do not have non-amplified Pre-Outs so you are right from the perspective of not being able to use external amplifiers except for the subwoofer. It is a viewpoint that is fair - just difference from how I counted as the “total” number of outputs including those which are only offered as amplified channels. There is a lot of inconsistency out there so I just picked one conversion and have tried to stay consistent in my presentation.
THX is a hard one. I haven’t experienced it so I am not the best judge. Many who have appreciate it. I feel it is possible to meet or exceed THX without pursuing THX certification - It just provides assurance that a baseline level of performance is met for those that have. For the others results are less predictable.-Jon
Just got a 7100 looks good!
Nice!
Pioneer for Power and durability Always!
i purchased the Pioneer LX505 over the RZ50 and have been quite happy. Here in Australia the Onkyo was was more expensive. The Onkyo was THX certified the Pioneer was not.
Glad to hear your experience with the LX505 has been good so far. Thing with THX certification is that untested product may have passed if tested - we just don’t know. Onkyo isn’t stating they added something special to pass THX over what Pioneer is doing. They could be very much the same.-Jon
Just found your channel. I just (now) purchased an Onkyo 6100, replacing a dead 10 year old Onkyo AV receiver. Question - can I stream an airplay app from my iPad (say, you tube) right from the iPad to the 6100? I don’t have an AppleTV, but I can’t seem to get it working..is there some special trick?
I had an Onkyo TX RZ3100 but ran into issues almost immediately. Sadly an internal capacitor kept clipping, shutting off the unit. I thought they'd just fix it but I was only offered money back or an exchange. I took the money back and had plans to buy the NEW TX RZ3400 2 years ago but it NEVER came to USA thus i am still using my old Yamaha. I can say this, I never had any issues with my old Yamaha receivers thus I just assumed "ALL" brands are equally trouble free. Obviously the Onkyo had MANY issues since its initial release. One note-- The THX theater format on Onkyo was awesome!!! I've never had that kind of surround sound experience with other brands, but then the unit started to power off all the time and I had to take it back. Musically the Onkyo TX RZ3100 was also incredible....really interested to know what NEW items Onkyo is planning to release and when--- appreciate any comments on the 3400 and what happened to its release. Might have just been a COVID related supply issue......
Sorry to hear about your faulty capacitor experience. Yes, it is difficult to condemn an entire brand over a single instance but it does lower trust moving forward. At least you were compensated. We will see how Onkyo navigates under new ownership. It is interesting that Onkyo is the sole brand with THX processors/receivers despite generally positive perception in the market. I suspect a few reasons for the decline - 1) THX license fees became too much in the cost sensitive market. 2) THX too slow to add clear value to immersive formats such as Atmos. 3) THX started to water down their brand by introducing more marks to cover a broader range of products and confused their audience.-Jon
Any difference in amplification of the 7100 vs. 305? What’s the difference between pioneer D3 amplification and the Onkyo? Leaning towards the 7100. Thanks for the video.
Thank you thank you
I am glad you found the content useful. -Jon
The 3100 doesn't have a Toroidal transformer? Do you have any test benchmarks for the RZ50 or 3100? I found the ratings for the 1100 and they were disappointing but better than Marantz which was even more disappointing especially in 2ch.
Hey there, love your videos. I am currently thinking of upgrading my AV processor and wanted to know If I could access the ripewave audio database? I am struggling finding the exact differences between rmc1, jbl synthesis, storm audio isp mk2, ect. I have watched your great videos on them, but would be even more helpful with the database. Thanks in advance
I would like to establish a digital location to share that spreadsheet. Ideally it is something that this community could crowd source its upkeep and accuracy.-Jon
I really wish they'd make pioneer elite more upscale like they use to be in their Golden age of the late 90s to early 00s
I am with you. They need to resurrect the quality once associated with the Elite moniker.
@@ripewave for a long time I was a pioneer elite fanboy, and I've "gasp" moved on to Denon now.
I have the Rz 50 pre ordered Hopefully it gets released soon 🤞
Its been out - mine was delivered last week. An awesome receiver!
@@Audiomainia2310 where? Everywhere I see the release date is October 15th
@@kishan73 Not the RZ50 - the 7100 is mid October. The TX NR6100 came out a month ago, the RZ50 right behind it.
Still not available.
Terrible how production and shipping delays are impacting electronics. Hang in there! -Jon
Wow very in depth I’m still stumped as why the pioneer is 100 dollars more for the top one I thought maybe the pioneer had something to justify the price but it doesn’t seem too I’ll pre order the onkyo rz50 coming from a onkyo 686 running svs ultras
My guess is the premium for Onkyo is not directly tied to production costs but rather what they feel consumers are willing to pay for each brand. -Jon
You and me both. This got to be the most disjointed marketing strategy I have ever seen. For what I can see you pay more and get slightly less by going with Pioneer
great video and thanks for the hard work. I keep seeing that there are some websites mention the LX105 is 80W into 2 channels but Pioneer notes the LX105 is 100W into 2 channels?
That is correct as Pioneer reports on the US site - Internationally they report 80W. -Jon
It actually came down to availability for me. I need a 7.1.2 receiver with HDMI 2.1 and the capability to go 7.1.4 when I add 2 more Atmos speakers. I wanted the Onkyo TX-RZ50, but ended up recently ordering the Pioneer Elite VSX-LX505 because I could actually find one right now. Kind of odd that the Pioneer is $100 more expensive, even though it has a few less features, but I'm hoping they are on par enough to not be a noticeable difference. I'm sure the price is all about paying for the Pioneer name even though it's not really "Pioneer" anymore. They seem extremely similar but I haven't found anyone doing an actual side by side comparison of them, so I guess I'll see when I get it.
Great feedback. Availability has been challenging and causing many buyers to switch brands or models. The bundling and pricing for Pioneer and Onkyo is hard to follow at times. They most be doing some positioning between brands using their market data. -Jon
Which features are missing on the Pioneer, compared to the Onkyo? Also would like to know if the Pioneer has full bass optimization in Dirac Live and whether or not you can individually set cross-overs? Thanks!
@@Mike_v_E the Pioneer is more expensive than the Onkyo but doesn't have THX certification. You can only set 1 crossover frequency for everything, then set each speaker to small or large, unlike Onkyo. I have no idea why this is the case. I set everything to 80 and all speakers to small to make the use of my big SVS subwoofer and take the load off of my speakers in a 7.1.2 setup, but I can see how this would be an issue for some.
@@BrandonBaecker When I read only one setting for crossover about a month ago, that was a no go for me.
How was Dirac Live to setup
and was it that much of a difference ?
Thanks
Everywhere out of stock for the RZ50 $1399. On eBay and Amazon rz50 is going for $1700-1800 right now. I might have to end up getting the LX505 to replace my old ass 15yo Pioneer Elite VSX 84.
Im leaning toward 305 vs 7100. also found Q1 2022 will be adding hdmi 2.1a, is that something to consider? Looking for something to use my series x at full potential. I also have klipsch speakers and saw the 7100 has a "klipsch mode", is that a gimmic? Also would you consider THX a factor in a decision. Leaning toward 305 but 7100 seems to have couple more benefits. Like the vids btw
Dustin - not certain the HDMI 2.1a SBTM enhancement will be supported near term as that specification is still be finalized. Regardless, it doesn’t appear to be a feature that will be used except for some niche cases.
Klipsch mode is a great concept. To model specifically to speaker models could help to preserve the intended tonal quality of the speaker and focus on adjustments that attempt to correct for room challenges. This is what RoomPerfect aims to do, but without knowledge of the speaker data - all through measurements. -Jon
Great video with lots of great comparison facts. Pretty much set on a 9.2 receiver for a 5.2.4 to replace my dead NR828. Can’t seem to decide between the NR7100 vs the LX305. 7100 seems to be better on paper but there’s a lot of praise for the 305. Which would you choose between the two?
Andrew Robinson just reviewed the 7100. The sound is about the same on all these, if not identical, so it comes down to features and style. I'm looking at the LX305 or 7100. Those seem to be available for purchase.
@@moniack I ordered a 7100 a couple days ago, should be here by the end of the week. For me it was a no brainer, my existing amp is dead and due to supply issues the 7100 was the only thing I could find available in Canada. Helps it was on sale this weekend :)
@@chrisjones8836 nice! My 12 year old Denon still works, but it's getting long in the tooth. Dirac sounds like it's amazing.
The biggest challenge im finding is that since these units are so new, there is no real experience being shared online all the reviews are all superficial covering only the same stuff. I initially encountered an anxiety producing even where i discovered a speaker cable short had put the Pioneer LX505 into protection mode and no available solutions seemed to fix it, it just kept cycling through NG: 2L2R error code, it couldnt be reset. It was only by accident that i found a solution. It would be nice if someone who actually spent time using the LX505 were to do a deep dive and present some real detailed information...
I wish I could bring all models in. Instead I need to pick and choose base on available funds. I am very interested in how the Pioneer and Onkyo models compare to Marantz and Denon. -Jon
@ripewave Denon is vastly overrated. I bought a Denon Receiver last month and had to return it because it completely lacked amplification. It was a 7.2 model from 2022. Is rated at 75 Watts per channel but it would not even drive a 2.1 setup with 3, 8 ohms Elac speakers. I cranked the volume up to 100% and it was Not loud enough for Movies.
This Denon AVR-S760H 7.2-Channel Home Theater AV Receiver 8K Video Ultra HD 4K/120 Receiver is garbage 🗑. The Bluetooth did not work either. Reading the negative reviews on this other people also experienced this.
Marantz is even more overrated.
Sadly the quality of electronics has greatly fallen off a cliff over the last 20 years. Manufacturers have horrible quality control.
I agree with the comments on Denon gear, my experience has been similar....disappointing and frustrated same with Yamaha. I did end up buying the Pioneer VSX LX 505 And found the dynamic range superior. Though also had to deal with Protection mode issues after an accident speaker wire short. So best to careful when making those connections. It's not hard to corrupt the chip. The LX505 is the better choice.
@@catminister1075 One thing I have discovered is if a year or less old product already has hundreds of used items for sale on Amazon then that product is garbage.
The Denon AVR-S760H 7.2-Channel Home Theater AV Receiver 8K Video Ultra HD 4K/120 the one I bought and returned is for sale used on Amazon for $350.00. This AV Receiver MSRP price is $600.00. So in less than a year on the market hundreds of people have returned this Receiver to Amazon and to sell them Amazon had to drop the price $250.00 dollars. Most of these Receivers were only used for a week or two.
Many other older models of Receivers are also sold used but not at such a reduced price. A used Sony (2 or 3 old, since it first went on sale. ) Receiver will cost maybe $60.00 to $120.00 dollars less used. When a very New less than a year old Receiver is sold used for $250.00 off in large quantities that is a huge red flag.
I bought a new $700.00 Pioneer 7.2-Channel Network AV Receiver VSX935 which came out in 2021. It is supposed to be delivered tomorrow.
Yes shorts will cause serious problems...
I am glad you got yourself a good Receiver that you like.
can anyone confirm if the NR7100 displays the volume bar/volume overlay at 4K60? current AVR only shows at 4K30 and AVR is in cabinet so need volume feedback on screen
I didn't run that test, but I am not surprised. The on-screen display of Onkyo, Pioneer and Integra seem to be based on a real old set of code. -Jon
Integra 3.4 is likely all you'll find available. It's 9.2 but does have 9.2 preout as well, unlike Pioneer 305. 100 dollars more but I haven't had a single issue, seems to be better quality as well. Integra was Onkyos premium division, now it's supposed to be "integra, pioneer, and then onkyo" from best to worst as far as quality. (Supposed to be)
Nice to have the pre-outs. Sorry for my delay - busy days recently. I think these brands are all very close. Thanks for sharing the target quality order. While Onkyo is positioned below Pioneer I feel they give the Onkyo additional value with THX etc.-Jon
Onkyo RZ-70 will debut early 2022, I'm patiently waiting...
Daniel - Thanks for that insight. As I just posted in another reply it seems many brands are delaying launch of for higher tier models until production/shipping returns to normal.-Jon
How did you arrive at the conclusion that each of these amps provides the power you listed for ALL channels? Both Pioneer and Onkyo specify their power for either ONE or TWO channels "DRIVEN". So there is nothing in the spec that I can see from which we can infer that the power for all 7 or 9 channels is provided at that same level (as your chart suggests above)? Did you do any testing upon which to base your statements?
You are correct about Onkyo and Pioneer - they only report amplifier outputs for 1-2 channels driven. I simply reported their 2-channel values. Unfortunately it appears I didn’t note that detail. I will be more conscious on the next video. I don’t have the capability to test - but would like to in the future as claimed values are often misleading.-Jon
I updated and still didn't get the 8K firmware support I have the TXRZ740 is there any info for this reciever
My database shows the Onkyo TX TZ740 as a 2019 model with a video chipset that is only capable of up to 4K signals. Only the recently release Onkyo models support 8K. I wish I had better news. -Jon
By 2ch stereo listening, LX305 or NR-7100 recommended as a amp?!
I just reviewed the amplifier specifications of these models and they are identical. I believe you will find the two channel stereo experience to be identical. -Jon
God, this must have taken forever to research. Thanks for your efforts (to say the least)! Impossible to decipher how Klipsch is positioning the Pioneer brand. And why is the top of the line Pioneer $100 more than the Onkyo (in respect to the recently released 8K models)? At the end of the day, it seems to me that the Pioneer VSX-LX505 is slightly infererior to the Onkyo TX-RZ50. The whole thing is simply baffling.
Am I missing something?
My sense too. They sure make it tough to choose between the too but this video is as helpful as anything.
I get that sense too. Perhaps they believe their Pioneer audience is willing to pay more.-Jon
Thanks to both of you for the kind remarks. -Jon
Deep review but I think you got it wrong for the pre out of the Pioneer LX305 and LX105. They have no 9.1 and 7.1 pre outs for external amp as you said. They only have pre out for sub and zone 2 line out for intergrated amp in a separate room.
William - Clearly you are correct. I will update the slides accordingly. Thanks for pointing that error out. -Jon
Yup. I am looking for an affordable receiver with at least front main pre-outs and the Yamaha RX-V6a is the only one.
@@PeterGalbraith yes. The only one one that does not support vrr.
hello from France do you have any idea of the Onkyo's coming to be selled in Europe ? thanks
I do not know their schedule. I have the sense the Onkyo themselves may not know for sure as the delays are now with shipping - they would have units in France today if they could get containers loaded onto ships.
Talked with the distributer for onkyo EU and they told me they're expecting the shippment for the rz50 model on 1st of March 2022.
@@theycallmeoskar9388 thanks for your answer and for this information
Just purchased the TX-NR6100 from Amazon. Looks like the sellers seem to exagerating the power of these amps. It say 7 x 100. When it is 2 X 100 but that 100 goes down when more channels are connected.
Yes they do. It is important to read the fine print - most only publish 2-channels driven, not all channels driven as we would prefer to see - or better yet both ratings so we know what can be delivered to the front channels in stereo mode. I have any seen some entry level models published with 1-channel driven which isn’t good for any use case. Glad you are being careful and understanding the details.-Jon
Hope you had plenty of power for your setup.
Does the 6100 have an internal fan ?
Thanks
@@deadline7610 --- No issues. Does have a small fan towards the back of the unit.
what happened to the Onkyo TX RZ3400? I think everyone was excited to buy THIS BEAST!!! But it never came to USA?
It has been a crazy time with production and shipping challenges.-Jon
I have the ht-s5910 and i would like to upgrade to the tx-nr6100 to get 4k, 120hz... can I use the same speakers and get 5.1.2?? I need to know cause I'm about to buy it 🙈🙈🙈
It is my understanding that both the ht-s5810 and tx-nr6100 support 5.1.2 so you should be fine. -Jon
@@ripewave thank you very much!!!
Why doesn't Onkyo have a receiver that is more powerful than the RZ-50? A receiver that can have 11 speaker support? Marantz does, not sure why Onkyo does not.
Correct - no new 8K models yet to replace their flagship tier. I suspect they wanted to address their high sales volume models first. My guess the upper end models will come next year. Keep in mind to that DACS are in short supply do to the AKM fire.-Jon
I KNOW What DAC is used for the RZ50! Let's just say it's NEW and better than 2019!
That’s great information. Willing to share?…
Didn't they use AKM back in 2019
Sad to say but they just filed for bankruptcy. Onkyo had some good stuff back in the 70s and that was the last time I heard anything from them,
There is a bit of confusion around the Onkyo situation. As I understand Onkyo Japan filed for bankruptcy and has ceased operations- yes. However, Voxx purchased the Onkyo brand for the home audio business prior to this action by the core Onkyo company. As such Voxx will continue to market Onkyo products which it has a partnership with Sharp to manufacture. The Onkyo, Pioneer and Integra AVRs will continue to be available and you will see new features and models.-Jon
@@ripewave well that's good to know!
Onkyo best
8K is unneeded for the next several years. There are almost no true 8K broadcast or source material. Better gaming performance is actually noticeable!
True - I believe that some of the other HDMI 2.1 features benefit 4K content - QMS, ALLM etc.-Jon
So far, no RZ50 availability. :-(
Quantities and locations initially will be limited from what I understand but Onkyo states they are in full production. Likely shipping delays now.-Jon
Try just audio
is it not ONKYO and PIONEER now - not the same...?
Same ownership and many shared components - but they position each brand to a particular audience. They interview traditional Onkyo and Pioneer buyers to determine how to balance the features in each brand.
I think the RZ50 and lx 505 are the only interesting… both not available. In Germany
It is unfortunate that Germany hasn’t received those models. I hope you see do supplies come to your region -Jon
Onkyo and pioneer are the same company.
Onkyo bought Pioneer then 11 Trading Company purchased both last year -Jon