Got this trans in my M340i. It's a killer gearbox. Always in the right gear, and if it isn't, it can get to it fast. It's smooth and seamless when driving normally and fast and ferocious when driving hard. Love it!
Then you likely know he missed the reason why the converter has such a high torque capacity in the Lock mode. The big change, around 2007, was changing from a light duty TC-lock for light torque in top gear(s) only, to a heavy duty, dual disc clutch that locks up in every gear. Also, he said lock-up was only in gears 1 and 6, not true. In the video he was shifting in many gears that were locked, for 1:1 direct drive. I first discovered this new generation automatic in a 2008 Mercedes C300 4Matic 7 speed.
KevinK2 I'm going on a limb here. He didn't say it locked up only in 1st and 6th, he said it was straight through. Now, I'm not sure about 1st, but 6th could easily be a 1:1 input to output ratio, with 7th and 8th as overdrive gears, and the rest as so called under drive gears. I'm still trying to work out exactly what he meant, but my guess is that the input is only driving the sun gears of each epicyclic element, in series, to give the lowest possible ratio, whereas 6th would have the ring gears locked, and the such that the whole epicyclic assembly rotates at engine speed. (A little over ten years ago I used to service these types of gear system almost daily, these days fibromyalgia means I only drive vehicles with them, rather than service and repair them. That said, the 6HP in my Phaeton needs serviced. It slips badly in the upper 3 gears.) I'll happily take correction on the power transfer path if I've got it back to front. 😄
@@taylorsimonr Thanks for the comment. At 7:18 he said "for 1st gear and 6th gear ... it's a locked-up direct drive" But now I realize the point he made was likely the other gears have gear mesh(s) with high efficiency (98+), but in those 2 gears, there is no gear mesh. This is what you explained very well. My main point was he didn't mention what was responsible for the huge change in atx performance, the muti disc heavy duty TC clutch, for nearly full torque lock-up, by-passing the fluid coupling. Sorry to hear the Fibro, it's RSD that have my tools collecting dust. I rebuilt an old manual box on a Triumph, with the cluster gear on caged needles riding on the dead shaft. Gear bore was spalled so I sketched up over-boring and fitting in a drawn-cup needle brg for smooth rollin again. Friends with machinist helps.
He's absolutely right, ZF 8 Speed is a dream to drive. The power is there when you ask for it, yet it's so smooth and comfortable. Non-car people could tell the difference and appreciate every bit it, I wish every automatic driver could experience this
I have a VW with a DSG on it and I can confirm that (at least for upshifting) the DSG is just barely a little faster. For downshifting the ZF is A LOT faster and also smoother.
Jason, I just got a 320d with the ZF Transmission. While I found the transmission to be pretty competent at first, it didn't really blow me away. Then I got my car coded up to enable the Sports Automatic Transmission (which bmw charges extra for) and boy did that change the characteristics of the whole car. The manual mode shifts are instantaneous as you describe, while the comfort mode shifts are smooth and barely perceptible, as they should be. Truly a masterpiece of a transmission!
Usually this shouldn't be the case. All the additional 200€ of the sports transmission add are the paddle shifters and a launch control, the rest is the same.
@@Explosivo93 Yes you are correct about launch control and the paddles but it does actually decrease shift times if you have the sport auto. But again you can just code it in with bimmercode like the guy who commented did
Agree with you, this transmission is good but not with a small engine. I actually prefered the 6 speed zf in the X1 23d than the 8 in the 320d. It just need some extra torque, at least when you want to dirve a little bit more sportily. For cruising it's okay even with a "smaller" engine like in a 118d.
I'm watching 11-20-24 and the Zf8 is everywhere and shifting smoothly, quietly and quickly. Several of our Rams have upwards of 300k miles and they still shift better and are getting better mileage and service compared to the rest of the fleet. Jason is still explaining engineering today 🎉
Great video as always, Jason. It is astonishing that this transmission is nearly a decade old but there's still nothing in the market that quite manages to offer its impressive blend of attributes. I come from Malaysia, a market where automatics suffer very high failure rates due to various factors, but I have yet to hear any complaints of the ZF 8HP's durability and reliable. Such a well-engineered piece of hardware.
@@EngineeringExplained I have even tried the 8HP on an Iveco van, an experience that opened my eyes to how impressively versatile this transmission is.
I had the ZF 8HP in a M135i (old one) - my favourite gearbox. No clutches to worry about. You get the best of both - pure automatic as well as fast gear changes and great fuel economy due to a quick torque converter lock up. The downside I found is that sometimes at low speeds like in traffic the gearbox changing gears would cause a surge, but wasnt really any bother to me. Aston Martin also use these gearboxes.
Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen (ZF) which means gearing/gearwheel factory and Friedrichshafen is in southern Germany at the Swiss border. It exists since 1915. I worked on the Saarbrücken factory at the French border building 8HP gearboxes. Greetings and great show.
Tyler Beeson Too much praise... The engineers made a good design, also there is very strict quality control and I had a good time and a motivated team of workers and technicians around me. I’m guessing the 8HP will live on for a moment in hybridized form (electric motor at the output shaft).
Cool video. I've been working around projects for this transmission almost my entire career as a mechanical engineer. But whenever I visit the plant where they built them I'm still impressed every time how everything comes together.
I love ZF. Not least because they are owned by a non-profit charitable trust and the profits ZF makes go to meals-on-wheels, kindergartens, OAP homes, hospitals etc.
Gustav Meyrink Thay became big due to the competitive advantage of tax free charity status enabled them crush the opposition. Sanitarium here in Oz has dodgy tax free 'church' status here in Oz, and thier main competitior, 'Kellogs' isnt happy about thier competitiors artificial competitive advantage.
@@nordic5490 As the scientologists found out churches are not tax exempt in Germany, only non-profit organizations are. Why would they want to crush the competition when they will never make a profit for anyone? In the case of ZF it is the elected city council of Friedrichshafen who decides where the money goes. There is no individual or group of individuals who gain anything in terms of money, power or prestige when those companies do well. Also German CEOs earn considerably less than their anglo-saxon counterparts, probably because every company above a certain size must have a union rep as a permanent board member so everybody knows what everybody earns. Result: No runaway remuneration of board members, better wages and conditions for employees. You should read up on why ZF came to be owned by a charitable trust.
@@nordic5490 I think you're mixing something up here. ZF is a stock company just like most other big companies in the world. The difference is that all their stocks are in the hands of two charities. Those two charities want their share of the pie every year as well, just like in other companies. You're right though that this share is actually a lot smaller than four other companies
So ZF being separate from automakers, I think they have the ability to build stuff that actually will last? I assume there have been some issues with these ZF8's but probably nothing compared to some other models?
I was a staunch manual driver until I drove my 370z with the 7at. In manual mode it feels like I'm driving a manual other than not having to shift gears with a lever and a clutch. The converted lockup is aggressive and it shifts super fast. Even rev matches on the downshift. Was very impressed. My last experience Wei th autos was 90s econoboxes and cvts.
Had it in my BMW 335 and loved it. Sadly I sold my BMW to get a Jeep Trackhawk but was delighted to find it also has the ZF 8HP. Such a pleasure to drive. Best transmissions I’ve ever had.
Hi Jason, just to confirm, the new Continental GT doesn’t use the ZF 8HP. The new one uses the Porsche PDK box. The previous generation GT and the Bentayga use/d the 8HP though. Source: I might work for Bentley.
Whoops!!! Looks like I used the wrong photo. I wasn't positive about the current gen but knew the previous ones did, so when looking for press photos I just went with current. Good catch, and thanks for pointing this out!
Engineering Explained yeah, on Wikipedia it shows the GT as using the 8HP, but the link hasn’t been changed to what was the current gen at the time to what is now the old gen. Would be great to see you trying out a Bentley sometime soon and giving your impressions. Not how it would tie in with your channel apart from being essentially two VR6 engines sharing a crank. Sure you can think of something!
i have an A b10 v8 and your switchtronic gearbox is still going strong at 190,000 miles :) i think this was also made buy zf and modified buy the company in bavaria starting with A :)
Modern automatics -- and this ZF8HP in particular -- are just unbelievable in their efficiency and power handling capabilities. Back in the day you *had* to have a manual in a sports car because the automatics would lose too much power -- if they could even handle the engine's power-output without blowing themselves apart. The automatic transmissions have improved *so* much since then. I am missing my legs, so I'm physically incapable of driving a manual shift car -- which sucked when I was younger, because all the fun cars were manuals. Now I can get damn near all of the fun cars with some sort of automatic-shift transmission -- whether it's a dual-clutch or a torque-converter. Great time to be a car enthusiast who can't drive a stick! :-)
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I never thought about that, for you guys has to be amazing to be able to drive again these powerful engines and fun cars thanks to these new transmissions ;).
Manual transmissions are almost a novelty anymore its fun to row your own gears and I can't claim to be a manual expert as I haven't owned one long enough to be extremely proficient but driving a car making 450+ hp in an automatic is much more enjoyable for me. Trying to get through the gears on something making big power is always less enjoyable after a day knowing I can screw it up and I'm not as fast or as efficient as someone in an auto. I have driven a charger scat pack and new camaro in both their automatic and manual configurations and when your new to the car the automatic is easier and by the time you get the shifts figured out on the manual and enjoy it you wish you were back to driving the faster automatic anyway as it`s usually noticeably quicker regardless of how good you are.
The cool part of manual transmissions is they force you to have more focus on the road and in a way teach you to be responsible. But it's subjective of course
Manuals also had more gears and weighed less, but the first isn't the case unless you're talking a big rig (Eaton-Fuller, etc.) and automatics have largely closed the gap in terms of weight.
The ZF-5HP24 in my '03 BMW X5 (4.4L V8) is still going strong with over 220k miles on it. This X5 has even been used to tow a 5k lb trailer between FL and TX (over a dozen times). Fluid and filter got changed at 100k and 180k. Will be doing another change at 240k.
Just purchased a BMW 230xi and one of the main reasons was the great ZF 8 speed and how well it works both in automatic and manual modes. In sport mode the transmission always has the engine in the sweet spot so you’re experiencing the full power of the turbo fours torque curve and acceleration is never lacking. It really makes the total driving experience so enjoyable. If you appreciate driving dynamics this is a great choice.
I will always prefer a manual transmission for driving, but I am fascinated by how alot of modern performance automatic transmissions work. Thank you for breaking this down & making this interesting for fellow gear heads 🏎🏁
I can't believe how far automatic transmissions have come in my lifetime and this century especially. I had an 83 Ford F-150 with a 3 speed automatic... maybe it had a 4th gear or overdrive but I think it was only 3 speed. And just a few years ago I was looking at the Ford website and looking at all the options available for the trucks and I was interested in going back to driving a manual transmission but I noticed that they no longer had a manual transmission option. They had 7 or 8 speed automatics. And I was shocked that auto had become the only choice. And I happened to run into my cousin who I hardly ever see because he drives over the road semi truck and we got to talking about it and he told me that the new semi he drives actually has an automatic transmission. I was absolutely floored because that was unheard of before. And I asked him how well it works and he said he was skeptical at first but it works just fine. Having been in semis before on trips with my cousins I can tell you that being in control of the gear you're in is a big part of handling the extreme weight and size of a semi, especially on grades/hills. So to hear him say that the automatic is great is just a testament to how good the technology has gotten.
Is it a conventional automatic as in this video with torque convertor and planetary gears or an automated manual transmission (AMT) the AMT is automatic but has solenoids to shift for you and being made similar to a manual are able to handle higher torque loadings than a "conventional" auto. Even dual clutch transmissions shift automatically as do CVTs so in todays environment, when speaking of autos, you need to clarify which one.
It's an "auto shifting" transmission. Same manual transmission as always, only with a box of solenoids on the shift lever input shaft. Computer controlled clutch as well.
I have a 2010 E60 550i M Sport with the ZF6HP28. This transmission is wild. In sport mode, it bangs through the gears like a sequential. I love it. I see they are using the ZF8HP in everything now. Down in Aussie, they putting the 8HP’s behind RB26’s making 1000hp and shifting at 9000rpm’s.
Christian Wertti not quite. The cope style will make it handle better. It’s not only about the engine. The style, suspension, brakes, makes it different
@@inox1ck it's basically, like the Toyota team went to BMW for a "Build a Car Workshop" field trip. BMW was like: "these are our M-cars, this how they handle..." Toyota: "We want that!" BMW: "Okay, these guys manufacture the BMW chassis'..." Toyota: "We want that!" BMW: "Okay, this is ZF a German company we contract for transmissions, we have a long history with them, and they are developing an 8-speed automatic..." Toyota: "We want that!" BMW: "Okay, now at the heart of a sports car is the engine, we use various engines, your old Supra had a turbo straight-6 right? Well, while you and most every other manufacturer gave up on the straight-6, we furthered the developement and now we have..." Toyota: "We want it!" So seriously... Who do you think designed it?
I’m a used car dealer and the ZF 8HP is absolutely the best feeling automatic transmission I’ve driven. Going from my Ram to a GMC Denali or an F150 you can immediately feel the difference in the shifts. ZF got it right.
Unfortunately a lot of manufacturers specify that their transmission as "maintenance free", or "filled for life". I'd still suggest flushing and replacing the filter at regular intervals, but that's just me. IMO, maintenance free just means it'll pop sooner rather than later
I just picked up an M235i. There's iterally NO MANUALS for sale near me, so had to pick up the auto box. I have no regrets. This ZF transmission is absolutely incredible.
Some folks like the convenience and (now) quicker performance from an automatic transmission. Others of us prefer to row our own gears because....that's how we roll. I think there's room for both of us.
@@TedSchoenling Car makers haven't chosen, buyers have chosen, If the huge majority of buyers had purchased manual gearboxes for the last X years then that's what car makers would provide, but... The vast majority of buyers (in the US) have purchased autos or DCTs for years now so that's what car makers offer. (in the UK (where I am) a lot of cars that are auto only in the US can still be had with a stick)
@@santtu9169 $10/ltr for unkown compatibility to a $7k transmission...hmm I think I'd use what's recommended, if it fails and they tear it down and find you used the wrong fluid you get to buy a transmission.
Hmm, no. It meets every requirement need for ZF8Hp trans. You can actually buy the original ZF fluid for 13€/liter here in Europe and original filter including oil pan 105€.
@@santtu9169 Yes the filter is actually part of the pan...go ahead and use that knock of fluid but if the tranny fails know that warranty isn't going to cover the failure. Hope someone is using it and reports in 100k miles how its done, personally being on a budget I wouldn't skimp out and use a non-recommended fluid may be more expensive using the recommended fluid but when you are on a budget you certainly don't want a $7k+ transmission to fail on your dime.
Only have a ZF6 in my car, but it's still awesome, even with 500hp going through it it still shifts as smooth now at 175,000km as it did when I first got it.
I have C6 transmissions in my ‘71 Mustang and my daily driver ‘68 F100, both with big, high torque V8’s and they’re really bulletproof. My dad even has a story about driving a new Mustang in ‘68 with a C6 (after a cocktail or two, as was the custom of the day) and due to his SCCA racing experience in a ‘66 Shelby GT-350, attempted to downshift coming out of a corner and put the car into reverse going about 60mph. After coming to a stop with some loud grinding noises, he fired it back up in park and drove off with no issues. A later mechanic inspection didn’t find any any parts that needed to be replaced. Ford C6 is the best automatic transmission to live with
The 8HP70 is the best thing that happened to Ram trucks ever, or FCA as a whole. I really doubt they would have survived without it. Boosting their reliability is what they needed most and they have it now. Powertrains are solid. I drag race my 5,000lb pickup all the time and abuse the crap out of it on the street. I've got to say this is the first Dodge I've purposely tried to break the transmission and it just keeps on going. Guys say they're good for 700hp in pickup trucks which is incredibly robust for a stock transmission.
My friend has a Charger RT with the ZF 8 speed and it’s by far my favorite transmission. I love the gearing, the shift speed, and the smoothness. I’ve driven a few BMWs with the same trans as well and find them slightly better in the BMWs. But the Charger’s application is still amazing. Totally transformed the car. Another friend of mine has a Charger RT with the 5 speed and it feels like a dog compared to the 8.
Even this F-250 I'm driving uses rev matching when you manually downshift. It's amazing how it blurs the throttle automatically to match the RPM's to avoid the jerkiness you usually get on manually selected downshifts. It's the 6 speed. The newer F-150's are using a 10 speed now. Designed in a joint effort with GM.
Shawn Barnish that transmission wasn’t really that much of a joint development. GM was to make a 9-speed FWD based trans to share with Ford and Ford was tasked with making a 10-speed RWD based trans. GM loved the 10-speed and Ford didn’t find the 9-speed adequate in the reliability or power handling abilities.
I was sceptical when moving from my 335i DCT to the ZF8 but it is a treat! Unbelievable fast shifting and hard to believe that the ZF8 is not a dual clutch. It’s truly a superb transmission. No wonder so many other makers use it.
ZF 8hp is everywhere and is a truly and amazing transmission. They are super smooth and super efficient they have a new design now that’s even more efficient. Plus the TCC locks at about 14mph which helps tremendously with efficiency.
There is no such thing as an amazing automatic transmission. They are all just varying compromises of manual transmissions over the long run. Any efficiencies gained will be lost in the face of the maintenance and rebuilds required. That's why they are a continuous source of headaches and experienced mechanics advise their customers to avoid them when they can, especially CVT. The closest thing to an exception would be the models from Allison with the best service histories.
@@ReflectedMiles you're funny, early CVTs were trash as were lots of early automatics. Current gen automatics are extremely reliable and very efficient.
@@airratchetjockey7605 The mechanics who are most trusted in the suburb of a large city where I live, including some who currently work for dealerships mostly on warranty issues, would disagree.
Reflected Miles ahh yes the standard “I know thousands of master technicians” response. So what do all your “master technicians say you should drive a 70’s VW rabbit? Go ahead and tell the kid who works out of his garage down the street he’s not correct.
@@airratchetjockey7605 Actually the most recent discussion I was referring to was between an independent shop owner and a mechanic at a Nissan dealership. Of course, you're right that their information is old since the discussion was almost three weeks ago now. No doubt they have improved greatly since then. They would agree with you that the transmissions have improved relatively, even JATCO, as that was discussed as well. Equivalent or superior to manuals for service and reliability? Neither agreed with that view.
That transmission is absolutely fantastic. We have 2 Ram 1500s with it and it is so smooth and quick, even when towing. I am curious as to what Jason thinks about Ford and GM's 10 speed, if it's better/worse/same. I like having those extra gears especially when towing, but if it's worse than the 8 speed then I don't want it because that 8 speed is seriously that good.
ZF 8 speed gets highway long term durability/reliability scores with independent review organizations. Note: Sealed for life is subjective and of course guidelines for changing are written by the manufacturer. They want to give a overly high service schedule in hopes that failure will be “Just after “ the powertrain warranty expires.....including extended warranties if applicable. Many current transmissions do not even have basic items for more frequent fluid.filter (if applicable) changes. Perfect example is no user accessible filters and in some cases no drain plug to help reduce mess during fluid change (s). Going further not even a fill tube for making new fluid easier to pour from the top. With no user accessible filters on a lot of modern transmission changing fluid is even more critical despite what manufacturers may recommend. The only winner with higher mileage change intervals is the repair shops and especially dealers hoping they can sell you a new vehicle. Moral of the story......I don’t think anyone especially dealers are going to penalize you for going above ( more frequent fluid changes) the manufacturers scheduled maintenance/servicing guidelines. Moral two....take care of it and for the most part the transmission will take care of you. Sometimes there is exceptions to the rule but overall a good recommendation. The point of moral #2 can be applied to any item in life, whether mechanical. Electrical, or even basic hand operated items. ZF 8 at least for my 2020JGC is a example of no user accessible filter AND no fill tube from top. Fluid can be changed but requires at minimum usually a vehicle lift or level surface. Whatever the change intervals is for the fluid in the owners manual or recommended service schedule is......Cut in half and the higher the interval is possibly cut in thirds. If manual/service schedule says 60K then probably change fluid at 30K. 100K replacement intervals maybe every 25K or maybe 35/35/30K etc........ If the service interval is below let’s say 35-40K. Probably no need to halve unless you have other indicators of problem.....( fluid loss, rough shifting etc...) Each owner is ultimately responsible but hopefully this can be some food for thought about general upkeep and longer transmission service life.
I love how it behaves in my Wrangler. Itll hold gears, burble, and pop when you let off. Its not a manual by any means but the way it shifts, hold gears, and just generally operates is really quite excellent. The only bad thing about it is it's absurd fluid change procedure.
MacTechG4 By allowing torque multiplication,at clutch lock up heat and inefficiency are gone. If it’s boring then it’s tuned wrong. They’re stronger than any manual trans that can fit in a car. Shifting manually is fun of course but they’re a comprise at best and a limitation once torque is upped. Having to use a 2.26 to 1 spread is boring and irritating in most situations.
And the best thing is, that the owner of ZF is a foundation which does a lot for the people in their region. So you can say, if you‘re buying a ZF 8HP, you‘re helping people with it.😁👌 Greetings from Germany!😊👋
anyusernamesleftest why? My E36 with 280.000km on it, shifts just fine. Never changed anything inside the transmission. A german car-news journal took apart a automatic transmission from a 200.000km E39, inside it was like new, with the original ZF ceiling on it!
One of my top reasons for choosing my last truck was the ZF transmission. In 2014 Ram's powertrain was head and shoulders above the competition. The only negative I have is the filter is built into the pan so if you want to change the fluid and filter you have to buy a new pan. I know they claim the fluid is "lifetime" but they also say "lifetime" is 100,000 miles so if you plan on putting 200,000 or 300,000 miles on a vehicle you will be buying several transmissions pans. Seems like the filter could have been made replaceable for very little cost. There are aftermarket pans with replaceable filters but they are very expensive.
I got one out of a jag, and made an adapter for the LS & SBC engines, and now I’m building an arduino based tcm. All of which will be going into my 89 Camaro. This really is the best transmission I’ve ever experienced.
I work at the ZF plant in SC where we build that transmission and also build the 9HP. The BMW plant in SC that builds their SUVs just signed a massive contract with us to continue using ZF transmissions
That is good to hear K brizzle, when I was there at ZF Gray Court SC, the BMW Greenville /Duncan plant which is less than 20 miles from Gray Court SC that makes the same 8hp, would get their transmissions shipped all the way from ZF Germany to go into the US built BMW's That didn't make much sense to me.
ZF must be still proving them self, I know the zf6 and zf5 behind 7.3s are awesome transmissions with that granny low and duel syncro 2nd 3rd and 4th. Tough transmission.
I'm super surprised that this video doesn't mention my favorite advantage of the ZF-8 over DCT: The ability to switch gears non-sequentially. My charger could drop from 6th to 2nd when I wanted to take off, DCTs usually cannot do that (maybe they can switch between say 5 and 2 but not 4 and 2 because that'd be the same clutch, but I dunno if anyone has implemented that)
Dual clutches do downshift an even number of gears, they are pretty fast. Having tried this ZF and the DSG I've noticed no difference in time response during a kick-down: they're both kind of slow and take almost one second to downshift. The DSG is truly instantaneous when downshifting one single gear though (it might be always pre-selected).
@@bryanmartinez6600 Meh they aren't terrible if you have a tuner that knows the transmissions limitations. I'm making around 520whp through a bone stock 4l60 and it hasn't given me any issues yet. The 4l80 is a superior transmission in all categories though.
@@Z4G. I've made my peace with the inevitable demise of manuals. My current car is a manual, but pretty much every other I like and can think of buying is automatic. Having the 8HP makes the transition a lot easier
Yep. Best transmission ever. Mine was (in a BMW) delaying shifts like it was on break every gear and it would slip when doing agressive kickdown actions. A full ZF kit later it is like I have a new car. Just unbelievable.
Ever since the invention of the automatic transmission, manual shifting has mostly resulted in better transmissions with higher efficiency. Since the last 10-5 years, however, we're slowly moving towards transmissions that shift better and smarter than any human being ever could. I think this was inevitable.
Only if he can get any premium auto with Manual anymore. All are converting themselves to zf automatic as it provides better efficiency and fuel economy better than the manual. Due to strict emission regulations they are avoiding the manuals. I’ve been driving my bmws with zf from 2010 and it is an amazing box and never want to go back to manual or dct. BMW is well ahead in the game of rolling out this trans on all their models and also well ahead in the way the software is developed to marry engine to the power train compared to later entries of manufacturers such as Audi and Jaguars with sluggish or jerky low speed controls.
dual clutches have their own set of issues: low speed smoothness problems, more frequent maintenance with expensive fluid, higher weight, and cost. These fast torque converter transmissions are good enough 99.9% of the time where you dont need bleeding edge performance.
I just got my first automatic car, a BMW f11 530d with this transmission and i was a bit worried with having an automatic for reliability reasons. I have to say that this video (along with many others on this 8hp) give me alot of confidence and peace of mind😅
Sorry but I must say that you are not completely right. While ZF does make some great transmissions they also produce some real duds. Their 9 speed trannys currently used in a plethora of vehicles including Ram/Fiat/Stellantis/Chrysler/Honda etc has dog clutches that have caused and still continue to provide a very unsettling experience to many owners. Everyone is allowed a bad egg once in awhile, but the problem I have is ZF is still producing them in massive quantities and they are being sold to an unsuspecting/uneducated public.
This type of auto was right right from the start which is why it is with us today and constantly being improved upon and what makes it really good is the torque convertor which cushions the connection between engine output shaft and transmission input shaft with a fluid for that smooth operation especially around the suburbs which is where most people do their driving. There is no physical/material connection unlike a DCT which shudders and jerks at low speeds as Jason so rightly pointed out and is mentioned in every car review that I have read that had a DCT. Some CVTs have a torque convertor to. What are the forces and heat and wear generated every time the dual clutches of a DCT snap bang in milliseconds when they engage time after time. No thanks, not for me. The fact that we have gone from 2 speed autos to 10 speed within the same size or smaller, lighter and more efficient really highlights its virtues. Long live the conventional auto!
Very cool, Actually probably the best auto ever built The TH400 Built for almost 30 years was in everything from Cadillac to Ferraris to RR to small dump trucks and H1 hummers in the gulf war. And versions are even still being made by race companies today. A dinosaur compared to this ZF but still legendary
That's because you don't have to write exams. If you were tested and graded on what you actually learned from EE, you'd realize you actually missed many naunces.
As soon as he said "zed" instead of "zee" I was hooked (from the UK :) ). I have a BM with this gearbox and it is crazy good. I tend to drive it in Sport/Manual mode and it is so good I don't think I could go back to anything else. There is no way I could shift this quick with a manual gearbox - and I've been driving manuals since 1978. I like the fact that this gearbox has "3" clutches. That's one more than dual clutches. :) :)
Owning both a new BMW with a ZF and the ZL1 with the 10 speed, I fee that the particular GM unit is superior but the ZF is very good. I was surprised at home close they behave in the most aggressive settings.
I would like to see a direct comparison to the GM 8-speed, which was touted when they dropped it in the '15 Corvette to be the fastest shifting transmission in the world.
Dual clutches try to simulate a torque converter by slipping the clutch and they do a pretty good nowadays, I've once driven a BMW assuming it was a regular auto, only to find out later it was a DCT. Likewise, I confused a Mini regular automatic for a DCT (because of the NIC: it disengages the clutch at a standstill only to re engage it when letting the brake go, the same way a DCT does).
@@demagab it is not just about the way it feels, no clutch can multiply torque when starting ... My honda has a torque converter and a clutch to be disengaged at a stand still...
After only recently moving to a job as a technician in a JLR dealer ship I can 100% confirm the 8hp is a nice auto box performance wise ! Even in 2.5 tonne discover 4’s they feel sporty to drive !
I worked at a BMW dealership and fell in love with the ZF 8-speed in a 2015 435i ZHP. With the car in Sport Plus the transmission would do exactly what you told it to, immediately, without question. Hard on the brakes and rear wheels chirping from aggressive downshifts is what did it for me. In today's world of electronic nannies, I was happy to be in a car that obliged to all of my commands. BMW has the best tune for the ZF, other car's tunes seem to be on the safer side, still good though.
@@sudd3660 It's kind of ironical that Lexuses today have real grills and real vents and real tale pipes yet Mercs and Bimmers nowadays have a lot of fake vents and tale pipes and grills. BMW need to learn that the big Lexux grills does not work in a BMW styling. This SUV would look loads better if they reduce the height of the grill by about 40%.
@@paulparoma They just make whatever that can make them a ton of money. They'd even make bicycles if that's what help them make the most amount of money.
I have been a fan of automatics from the time I started driving in the late sixties when stick shift and clutch were cool. Launching a big block at say six thousand rpm is fun. While I don't know the name of the person to credit for the idea but with some machine work on a GM Turbo 400 the converter was replaced with a clutch and pump. Fun at launch and no missed shifts. It was the early days of high stall converter technology. The two speed slip and slide GM Powerglide was reborn into a well used drag racing trans. Gotta to love them automatics.
I think It wouldn't be that hard, if aftermarket PCM/TCM companies will support coverage of its shift logic control. Much like how many of them can control older electronic autos already, it just depends on if the aftermarket seizes on perceived demand from customers. And hey, if you snag the whole engine/trans package from the wreckers then you can just use the stock PCM (immobilizer delete notwithstanding, of course)!
That would be counterproductive. Replacing the best manual shifter on the planet for a unreliable, impossible to service and a lot more expensive one ...
Fabulous video. I totally agree with your assessment of this truly fabulous transmission. My wife is recently in a 2024 BMW X3 sDrive30i with the ZF 8HP and I am truly thrilled about how incredible this thing is. Had 2 DCT’s (a 2012 Jetta SportWagen TDI [DSG] and a Porsche 911’with PDK and while they were fun with quick positive shifts I always feared a failure and it’s associated costs. When researching a new car I discovered this ZF and it’s great reviews. I am so happy with the ZF. It is just too cool that a torque converter transmission is this responsive and more than likely durable, plus cheaper to maintain and repair replace. I personally want to drive manuals forever, but I know those days are numbered. Either by my aging or lack of production.
They’re similar in several areas, comparing lighter duty 10R/10L to 8HP/8L. Both employ 4 separate planetary gear sets, the 1-4 ratios are identical and 10th is common to ZF 8th. Ford essentially combines triple clutch sets to replace doubles. The result is 10 forward speeds in same length as the 8 forward speed box. The maximum torque rating ranges 600-650 ft*lbs, depending upon the version. The heavy duty 10R140, GM version known as 10L1000, shares several design elements but is considerable larger in diameter and length while offering 70% higher torque limit.
Great video. I am no engineer and I read really great things about the new 10 speed automatic made by Ford used in trucks like the Ranger, F150 but also in sport cars. Would love to learn more about that too if you ever have a chance to look into it. Im also curious to know how strong they can kake these boxes, as in hoe much torque can they take before they explode
Thank you for the recognition 😊
I'm one of the developers for this badass gearbox
God bless you!!
Now develop a better manual box!
The video is great, and shows all the detailed changes, but is there One design change that stands out for the huge efficiency increase?
@Lako well, everyone knows how fast dodge's spaghetti transmissions
Too bad the electrical parts were junk
I hope i wasn't the only one waiting for him to reach out and pull out a handy gearbox he just happened to have
3D prints!
No sir you are not 😂😂😂
Or a whiteboard.
Got this trans in my M340i. It's a killer gearbox. Always in the right gear, and if it isn't, it can get to it fast. It's smooth and seamless when driving normally and fast and ferocious when driving hard. Love it!
I worked at ZF assembling these 8 speed transmissions. Btw, ZF stands for Zahnradfabrik wich literally means Gear Factory.
Then you likely know he missed the reason why the converter has such a high torque capacity in the Lock mode. The big change, around 2007, was changing from a light duty TC-lock for light torque in top gear(s) only, to a heavy duty, dual disc clutch that locks up in every gear. Also, he said lock-up was only in gears 1 and 6, not true. In the video he was shifting in many gears that were locked, for 1:1 direct drive. I first discovered this new generation automatic in a 2008 Mercedes C300 4Matic 7 speed.
KevinK2 I'm going on a limb here. He didn't say it locked up only in 1st and 6th, he said it was straight through. Now, I'm not sure about 1st, but 6th could easily be a 1:1 input to output ratio, with 7th and 8th as overdrive gears, and the rest as so called under drive gears. I'm still trying to work out exactly what he meant, but my guess is that the input is only driving the sun gears of each epicyclic element, in series, to give the lowest possible ratio, whereas 6th would have the ring gears locked, and the such that the whole epicyclic assembly rotates at engine speed. (A little over ten years ago I used to service these types of gear system almost daily, these days fibromyalgia means I only drive vehicles with them, rather than service and repair them. That said, the 6HP in my Phaeton needs serviced. It slips badly in the upper 3 gears.)
I'll happily take correction on the power transfer path if I've got it back to front. 😄
@@taylorsimonr Thanks for the comment. At 7:18 he said "for 1st gear and 6th gear ... it's a locked-up direct drive" But now I realize the point he made was likely the other gears have gear mesh(s) with high efficiency (98+), but in those 2 gears, there is no gear mesh. This is what you explained very well. My main point was he didn't mention what was responsible for the huge change in atx performance, the muti disc heavy duty TC clutch, for nearly full torque lock-up, by-passing the fluid coupling. Sorry to hear the Fibro, it's RSD that have my tools collecting dust.
I rebuilt an old manual box on a Triumph, with the cluster gear on caged needles riding on the dead shaft. Gear bore was spalled so I sketched up over-boring and fitting in a drawn-cup needle brg for smooth rollin again. Friends with machinist helps.
Human Person You missed the „F“ which stands for Friedrichshafen, the location of the headquarters. Cheers
Actually it is: Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen
He's absolutely right, ZF 8 Speed is a dream to drive. The power is there when you ask for it, yet it's so smooth and comfortable. Non-car people could tell the difference and appreciate every bit it, I wish every automatic driver could experience this
Sounds like a dream. I'm stuck with a jerky defective Ford DCT that sometimes randomly gets stuck in 1st gear or won't shift into reverse.
Love the ZF8HP70 in my Scat Pack. In track mode the shifts are crazy fast.
Got it in my 340i and i can honestly say I don’t mind it I’ve been a manual only guy and it feels great works perfectly and wifey can drive it
@Steve Bennet.
So at what point do you start calling it a German car instead of American muscle?
@@Bartonovich52 when the engine is of German design.
I have a VW with a DSG on it and I can confirm that (at least for upshifting) the DSG is just barely a little faster. For downshifting the ZF is A LOT faster and also smoother.
Jason, I just got a 320d with the ZF Transmission. While I found the transmission to be pretty competent at first, it didn't really blow me away. Then I got my car coded up to enable the Sports Automatic Transmission (which bmw charges extra for) and boy did that change the characteristics of the whole car. The manual mode shifts are instantaneous as you describe, while the comfort mode shifts are smooth and barely perceptible, as they should be. Truly a masterpiece of a transmission!
Usually this shouldn't be the case. All the additional 200€ of the sports transmission add are the paddle shifters and a launch control, the rest is the same.
The sport automatic transmission option is pretty amazing!
@@Explosivo93 Yes you are correct about launch control and the paddles but it does actually decrease shift times if you have the sport auto. But again you can just code it in with bimmercode like the guy who commented did
@@Explosivo93 BMW themselves might have a different program for the transmission to "encourage" people to pay for the sport transmission package
Agree with you, this transmission is good but not with a small engine. I actually prefered the 6 speed zf in the X1 23d than the 8 in the 320d. It just need some extra torque, at least when you want to dirve a little bit more sportily. For cruising it's okay even with a "smaller" engine like in a 118d.
We want a "whiteboard" video explaining every detail of the ZF immediately!!!
I'm watching 11-20-24 and the Zf8 is everywhere and shifting smoothly, quietly and quickly. Several of our Rams have upwards of 300k miles and they still shift better and are getting better mileage and service compared to the rest of the fleet. Jason is still explaining engineering today 🎉
Great video as always, Jason. It is astonishing that this transmission is nearly a decade old but there's still nothing in the market that quite manages to offer its impressive blend of attributes. I come from Malaysia, a market where automatics suffer very high failure rates due to various factors, but I have yet to hear any complaints of the ZF 8HP's durability and reliable. Such a well-engineered piece of hardware.
Hey Kon, when are you gonna review the new S60 T5?
It's an awesome piece of engineering! And yes, 10 years old at this point, though it's on the third generation (which came out in 2018).
@@papoopa5800 gotta wait for the car to reach our market first. Haha
@@EngineeringExplained I have even tried the 8HP on an Iveco van, an experience that opened my eyes to how impressively versatile this transmission is.
...Lexus did it first.
"The supra's a Z4"
That troll LOL
Lool😂😂😂
Was going to comment this as well, one of the funny things about Jason, he always finds a way to slide in the common/ current masses drama ahah
It was a straight up fact. A supra badge slapped on the back does not a supra make
@@762x69 Someone made a really good video about why this isn't exactly the case but I definitely thought that too at first.
@@wdiv link please if you can? Otherwise I'm sticking with thought of it as the z4 two seat coupe 👌
I had the ZF 8HP in a M135i (old one) - my favourite gearbox. No clutches to worry about. You get the best of both - pure automatic as well as fast gear changes and great fuel economy due to a quick torque converter lock up. The downside I found is that sometimes at low speeds like in traffic the gearbox changing gears would cause a surge, but wasnt really any bother to me. Aston Martin also use these gearboxes.
Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen (ZF) which means gearing/gearwheel factory and Friedrichshafen is in southern Germany at the Swiss border. It exists since 1915. I worked on the Saarbrücken factory at the French border building 8HP gearboxes.
Greetings and great show.
Irgendwie bin ich immer überrascht wenn Amerikaner von irgendetwas reden das bei mir aus der Gegend kommt... :D
You build some masterpieces!
war da auch schon n paar mal, ist echt ein gewaltiges Firmengelände
Tyler Beeson
Too much praise...
The engineers made a good design, also there is very strict quality control and I had a good time and a motivated team of workers and technicians around me. I’m guessing the 8HP will live on for a moment in hybridized form (electric motor at the output shaft).
I spent 3 years in the military at Zweibrucken not far from Saarbrucken.
As a manual fanboy, I have to say that the ZF 8 speed is an amazing transmission.
Cool video. I've been working around projects for this transmission almost my entire career as a mechanical engineer. But whenever I visit the plant where they built them I'm still impressed every time how everything comes together.
I love ZF.
Not least because they are owned by a non-profit charitable trust and the profits ZF makes go to meals-on-wheels, kindergartens, OAP homes, hospitals etc.
can confirm, never thought I'd be proud to work for a multi billion dollar company
Gustav Meyrink Thay became big due to the competitive advantage of tax free charity status enabled them crush the opposition. Sanitarium here in Oz has dodgy tax free 'church' status here in Oz, and thier main competitior, 'Kellogs' isnt happy about thier competitiors artificial competitive advantage.
@@nordic5490 As the scientologists found out churches are not tax exempt in Germany, only non-profit organizations are.
Why would they want to crush the competition when they will never make a profit for anyone?
In the case of ZF it is the elected city council of Friedrichshafen who decides where the money goes. There is no individual or group of individuals who gain anything in terms of money, power or prestige when those companies do well. Also German CEOs earn considerably less than their anglo-saxon counterparts, probably because every company above a certain size must have a union rep as a permanent board member so everybody knows what everybody earns.
Result: No runaway remuneration of board members, better wages and conditions for employees.
You should read up on why ZF came to be owned by a charitable trust.
@@nordic5490 I think you're mixing something up here. ZF is a stock company just like most other big companies in the world. The difference is that all their stocks are in the hands of two charities. Those two charities want their share of the pie every year as well, just like in other companies.
You're right though that this share is actually a lot smaller than four other companies
So ZF being separate from automakers, I think they have the ability to build stuff that actually will last? I assume there have been some issues with these ZF8's but probably nothing compared to some other models?
I was a staunch manual driver until I drove my 370z with the 7at. In manual mode it feels like I'm driving a manual other than not having to shift gears with a lever and a clutch. The converted lockup is aggressive and it shifts super fast. Even rev matches on the downshift.
Was very impressed. My last experience Wei th autos was 90s econoboxes and cvts.
Had it in my BMW 335 and loved it. Sadly I sold my BMW to get a Jeep Trackhawk but was delighted to find it also has the ZF 8HP. Such a pleasure to drive. Best transmissions I’ve ever had.
Hi Jason, just to confirm, the new Continental GT doesn’t use the ZF 8HP. The new one uses the Porsche PDK box. The previous generation GT and the Bentayga use/d the 8HP though.
Source: I might work for Bentley.
Whoops!!! Looks like I used the wrong photo. I wasn't positive about the current gen but knew the previous ones did, so when looking for press photos I just went with current. Good catch, and thanks for pointing this out!
Engineering Explained yeah, on Wikipedia it shows the GT as using the 8HP, but the link hasn’t been changed to what was the current gen at the time to what is now the old gen.
Would be great to see you trying out a Bentley sometime soon and giving your impressions. Not how it would tie in with your channel apart from being essentially two VR6 engines sharing a crank. Sure you can think of something!
Both are developed and built by ZF though ;-)
I'm possibly an employee of a car company from Bavaria starting with "A".
You sure that DSG isn't from us?
i have an A b10 v8 and your switchtronic gearbox is still going strong at 190,000 miles :) i think this was also made buy zf and modified buy the company in bavaria starting with A :)
Modern automatics -- and this ZF8HP in particular -- are just unbelievable in their efficiency and power handling capabilities. Back in the day you *had* to have a manual in a sports car because the automatics would lose too much power -- if they could even handle the engine's power-output without blowing themselves apart. The automatic transmissions have improved *so* much since then.
I am missing my legs, so I'm physically incapable of driving a manual shift car -- which sucked when I was younger, because all the fun cars were manuals. Now I can get damn near all of the fun cars with some sort of automatic-shift transmission -- whether it's a dual-clutch or a torque-converter. Great time to be a car enthusiast who can't drive a stick! :-)
I never thought about that, for you guys has to be amazing to be able to drive again these powerful engines and fun cars thanks to these new transmissions ;).
ZF bus automatics are good fun too. Especially the Ecomat used in around 2005 buses.
Manual transmissions are almost a novelty anymore its fun to row your own gears and I can't claim to be a manual expert as I haven't owned one long enough to be extremely proficient but driving a car making 450+ hp in an automatic is much more enjoyable for me. Trying to get through the gears on something making big power is always less enjoyable after a day knowing I can screw it up and I'm not as fast or as efficient as someone in an auto. I have driven a charger scat pack and new camaro in both their automatic and manual configurations and when your new to the car the automatic is easier and by the time you get the shifts figured out on the manual and enjoy it you wish you were back to driving the faster automatic anyway as it`s usually noticeably quicker regardless of how good you are.
The cool part of manual transmissions is they force you to have more focus on the road and in a way teach you to be responsible. But it's subjective of course
Manuals also had more gears and weighed less, but the first isn't the case unless you're talking a big rig (Eaton-Fuller, etc.) and automatics have largely closed the gap in terms of weight.
The ZF-5HP24 in my '03 BMW X5 (4.4L V8) is still going strong with over 220k miles on it. This X5 has even been used to tow a 5k lb trailer between FL and TX (over a dozen times).
Fluid and filter got changed at 100k and 180k. Will be doing another change at 240k.
Is it still smooth?
The q7 v12tdi had the zf6speed, that was a good tranny, but it was holding the engine back because it had too much torque
@@bigmansir3745ofc it had too much torque v12 diesel wtf 😂
Just purchased a BMW 230xi and one of the main reasons was the great ZF 8 speed and how well it works both in automatic and manual modes. In sport mode the transmission always has the engine in the sweet spot so you’re experiencing the full power of the turbo fours torque curve and acceleration is never lacking. It really makes the total driving experience so enjoyable. If you appreciate driving dynamics this is a great choice.
Seriously, that ZF 8 speed is amazing, I wish I could justifiably afford a car that has one.
BMW 116i F20 from 2011 for instance ;)
@@ip7-7 true, too small though :) 3 series or higher for me
BMW M240i xdrive with a tuning module is a beast and only cost me $45,000 new
Buy a used Jeep Cherokee with a *9 SPEED* ZF gearbox!
Calvin Nickel not exactly known to be a stellar trans like the 8hp
I will always prefer a manual transmission for driving, but I am fascinated by how alot of modern performance automatic transmissions work. Thank you for breaking this down & making this interesting for fellow gear heads 🏎🏁
I can't believe how far automatic transmissions have come in my lifetime and this century especially. I had an 83 Ford F-150 with a 3 speed automatic... maybe it had a 4th gear or overdrive but I think it was only 3 speed. And just a few years ago I was looking at the Ford website and looking at all the options available for the trucks and I was interested in going back to driving a manual transmission but I noticed that they no longer had a manual transmission option. They had 7 or 8 speed automatics. And I was shocked that auto had become the only choice. And I happened to run into my cousin who I hardly ever see because he drives over the road semi truck and we got to talking about it and he told me that the new semi he drives actually has an automatic transmission. I was absolutely floored because that was unheard of before. And I asked him how well it works and he said he was skeptical at first but it works just fine. Having been in semis before on trips with my cousins I can tell you that being in control of the gear you're in is a big part of handling the extreme weight and size of a semi, especially on grades/hills. So to hear him say that the automatic is great is just a testament to how good the technology has gotten.
Try an automatic on the column .....Powerglide, 1955 Chev
Is it a conventional automatic as in this video with torque convertor and planetary gears or an automated manual transmission (AMT) the AMT is automatic but
has solenoids to shift for you and being made similar to a manual are able to handle higher torque loadings than a "conventional" auto. Even dual clutch transmissions shift automatically as do CVTs so in todays environment, when speaking of autos, you need to clarify which one.
Ford C4 or Ford C6? both of them are awesome reliable old school ones
It's an "auto shifting" transmission. Same manual transmission as always, only with a box of solenoids on the shift lever input shaft. Computer controlled clutch as well.
The best transmission for me is the one that never breaks until I'm at 400,000 miles
That’s a big number, how many miles a year do you do?
Damn, what are you driving, a Land Cruiser?
If only that’s possible in today’s world.
Change your trans oil and filter once every two years.
Lol 150k on my bmw and i havent touch my ZF since i bought it will make easy 250k without touching the gearbox
I have a 2010 E60 550i M Sport with the ZF6HP28. This transmission is wild. In sport mode, it bangs through the gears like a sequential. I love it. I see they are using the ZF8HP in everything now. Down in Aussie, they putting the 8HP’s behind RB26’s making 1000hp and shifting at 9000rpm’s.
3:49 "The Supra's a Z4"
Takes are served smoldering hot over here
Christian Wertti not quite. The cope style will make it handle better. It’s not only about the engine. The style, suspension, brakes, makes it different
@@inox1ck it's basically, like the Toyota team went to BMW for a "Build a Car Workshop" field trip. BMW was like: "these are our M-cars, this how they handle..." Toyota: "We want that!" BMW: "Okay, these guys manufacture the BMW chassis'..." Toyota: "We want that!" BMW: "Okay, this is ZF a German company we contract for transmissions, we have a long history with them, and they are developing an 8-speed automatic..." Toyota: "We want that!" BMW: "Okay, now at the heart of a sports car is the engine, we use various engines, your old Supra had a turbo straight-6 right? Well, while you and most every other manufacturer gave up on the straight-6, we furthered the developement and now we have..." Toyota: "We want it!" So seriously... Who do you think designed it?
New Supra is gonna be a BMW, inside and out. TOO SAD.
Hey Jason, great video! The Jesko's new transmission seems really cool and definitely deserves an oldschool whiteboard video I think.
Totally agree with you !!!
It pretty much blows everything else out of the water, including this ZF.
I’m a used car dealer and the ZF 8HP is absolutely the best feeling automatic transmission I’ve driven. Going from my Ram to a GMC Denali or an F150 you can immediately feel the difference in the shifts. ZF got it right.
I completely agree with you, I’m also a dealer and the box in the ram is a huge advantage in my eyes.
Absolutely loved the ZF 8 speed in my 2016 340ix. Shifts in sport mode were ridiculously quick!
Let me guess. BMW states no trans fluid change is necessary for the entire service life. Haha
Ozzstar yh, but if you go to ZF, they’ll change it for you.
It should be a joke
Do my own fluid changes. 3 BMW'S lol
Welllll my 2001 BMW with a ZF transmission has 175,000+ miles on it with zero fluid changes... so....... yeah, I'd say that works out okay
Unfortunately a lot of manufacturers specify that their transmission as "maintenance free", or "filled for life". I'd still suggest flushing and replacing the filter at regular intervals, but that's just me. IMO, maintenance free just means it'll pop sooner rather than later
I just picked up an M235i. There's iterally NO MANUALS for sale near me, so had to pick up the auto box. I have no regrets. This ZF transmission is absolutely incredible.
Some folks like the convenience and (now) quicker performance from an automatic transmission. Others of us prefer to row our own gears because....that's how we roll. I think there's room for both of us.
No. There isn't. Car makers have chosen and us who like to row our own have been left behind.
@@TedSchoenling Car makers haven't chosen, buyers have chosen, If the huge majority of buyers had purchased manual gearboxes for the last X years then that's what car makers would provide, but... The vast majority of buyers (in the US) have purchased autos or DCTs for years now so that's what car makers offer.
(in the UK (where I am) a lot of cars that are auto only in the US can still be had with a stick)
You get the best trans to suit the type of car,eg sports car manual,gt and luxury sedans zf8
I have a 2010 bmw 535i with ZF8HP trans and it still feels great. Just remember to change your trans fluid every 60k miles/100k km.
I was watching a video yesterday about this transmission and the fluid. The guy says the special fluid is like $43 a quart...ouch!!!!!!
Sure, if you buy from dealer... There is allso fluids that cost 10€/ltr.
@@santtu9169 $10/ltr for unkown compatibility to a $7k transmission...hmm I think I'd use what's recommended, if it fails and they tear it down and find you used the wrong fluid you get to buy a transmission.
Hmm, no. It meets every requirement need for ZF8Hp trans. You can actually buy the original ZF fluid for 13€/liter here in Europe and original filter including oil pan 105€.
@@santtu9169 Yes the filter is actually part of the pan...go ahead and use that knock of fluid but if the tranny fails know that warranty isn't going to cover the failure. Hope someone is using it and reports in 100k miles how its done, personally being on a budget I wouldn't skimp out and use a non-recommended fluid may be more expensive using the recommended fluid but when you are on a budget you certainly don't want a $7k+ transmission to fail on your dime.
I have a ZF 6HP28X in my 2007 BMW X5 3.0d with 230,000km on it. Still going strong and hasn't missed a beat!
EE: "automatic transmissions are cool again"
*value of all automatic transmissions triples overnight*
*BREAKING NEWS: Manual transmission car sales drop to 0%*
@@bibasik7 Then he reviews the Mclaren F1 and T50 gearbox and then manual transmissions are the coolest things on earth.
ZF 8HP is one reason I bought a new BMW 3 years ago, really good transmission.
That is the reason I won't be buying a new BMW.. they aren't offering good manuals anymore.
Ted Schoenling interesting, what did you buy instead?
A341E with 370,000 still shifting smooth as silk. No complaints. Feed it 100% synthetic fluid every 2 years. Keep it happy. .
I drove a Dodge Challenger with this transmission and I was amazed, I couldn't believe how awesome this transmission is
Only have a ZF6 in my car, but it's still awesome, even with 500hp going through it it still shifts as smooth now at 175,000km as it did when I first got it.
I have C6 transmissions in my ‘71 Mustang and my daily driver ‘68 F100, both with big, high torque V8’s and they’re really bulletproof.
My dad even has a story about driving a new Mustang in ‘68 with a C6 (after a cocktail or two, as was the custom of the day) and due to his SCCA racing experience in a ‘66 Shelby GT-350, attempted to downshift coming out of a corner and put the car into reverse going about 60mph. After coming to a stop with some loud grinding noises, he fired it back up in park and drove off with no issues. A later mechanic inspection didn’t find any any parts that needed to be replaced.
Ford C6 is the best automatic transmission to live with
The 8HP70 is the best thing that happened to Ram trucks ever, or FCA as a whole. I really doubt they would have survived without it. Boosting their reliability is what they needed most and they have it now. Powertrains are solid.
I drag race my 5,000lb pickup all the time and abuse the crap out of it on the street. I've got to say this is the first Dodge I've purposely tried to break the transmission and it just keeps on going.
Guys say they're good for 700hp in pickup trucks which is incredibly robust for a stock transmission.
My friend has a Charger RT with the ZF 8 speed and it’s by far my favorite transmission. I love the gearing, the shift speed, and the smoothness. I’ve driven a few BMWs with the same trans as well and find them slightly better in the BMWs. But the Charger’s application is still amazing. Totally transformed the car. Another friend of mine has a Charger RT with the 5 speed and it feels like a dog compared to the 8.
false, transmissions are rated on torque, so the “70” indicates 700nm of torque
@@m.h.3679 big facts
And 700nm at 7200rpm is 700hp 🤷♂️🤷♂️ dingus
Even this F-250 I'm driving uses rev matching when you manually downshift. It's amazing how it blurs the throttle automatically to match the RPM's to avoid the jerkiness you usually get on manually selected downshifts.
It's the 6 speed.
The newer F-150's are using a 10 speed now. Designed in a joint effort with GM.
Shawn Barnish that transmission wasn’t really that much of a joint development. GM was to make a 9-speed FWD based trans to share with Ford and Ford was tasked with making a 10-speed RWD based trans. GM loved the 10-speed and Ford didn’t find the 9-speed adequate in the reliability or power handling abilities.
I was sceptical when moving from my 335i DCT to the ZF8 but it is a treat! Unbelievable fast shifting and hard to believe that the ZF8 is not a dual clutch. It’s truly a superb transmission. No wonder so many other makers use it.
ZF 8hp is everywhere and is a truly and amazing transmission. They are super smooth and super efficient they have a new design now that’s even more efficient. Plus the TCC locks at about 14mph which helps tremendously with efficiency.
There is no such thing as an amazing automatic transmission. They are all just varying compromises of manual transmissions over the long run. Any efficiencies gained will be lost in the face of the maintenance and rebuilds required. That's why they are a continuous source of headaches and experienced mechanics advise their customers to avoid them when they can, especially CVT. The closest thing to an exception would be the models from Allison with the best service histories.
@@ReflectedMiles you're funny, early CVTs were trash as were lots of early automatics. Current gen automatics are extremely reliable and very efficient.
@@airratchetjockey7605 The mechanics who are most trusted in the suburb of a large city where I live, including some who currently work for dealerships mostly on warranty issues, would disagree.
Reflected Miles ahh yes the standard “I know thousands of master technicians” response. So what do all your “master technicians say you should drive a 70’s VW rabbit? Go ahead and tell the kid who works out of his garage down the street he’s not correct.
@@airratchetjockey7605 Actually the most recent discussion I was referring to was between an independent shop owner and a mechanic at a Nissan dealership. Of course, you're right that their information is old since the discussion was almost three weeks ago now. No doubt they have improved greatly since then. They would agree with you that the transmissions have improved relatively, even JATCO, as that was discussed as well. Equivalent or superior to manuals for service and reliability? Neither agreed with that view.
That transmission is absolutely fantastic. We have 2 Ram 1500s with it and it is so smooth and quick, even when towing. I am curious as to what Jason thinks about Ford and GM's 10 speed, if it's better/worse/same. I like having those extra gears especially when towing, but if it's worse than the 8 speed then I don't want it because that 8 speed is seriously that good.
ZF 8 speed gets highway long term durability/reliability scores with independent review organizations.
Note: Sealed for life is subjective and of course guidelines for changing are written by the manufacturer. They want to give a overly high service schedule in hopes that failure will be “Just after “ the powertrain warranty expires.....including extended warranties if applicable.
Many current transmissions do not even have basic items for more frequent fluid.filter (if applicable) changes.
Perfect example is no user accessible filters and in some cases no drain plug to help reduce mess during fluid change (s). Going further not even a fill tube for making new fluid easier to pour from the top.
With no user accessible filters on a lot of modern transmission changing fluid is even more critical despite what manufacturers may recommend.
The only winner with higher mileage change intervals is the repair shops and especially dealers hoping they can sell you a new vehicle.
Moral of the story......I don’t think anyone especially dealers are going to penalize you for going above ( more frequent fluid changes) the manufacturers scheduled maintenance/servicing guidelines.
Moral two....take care of it and for the most part the transmission will take care of you. Sometimes there is exceptions to the rule but overall a good recommendation.
The point of moral #2 can be applied to any item in life, whether mechanical. Electrical, or even basic hand operated items.
ZF 8 at least for my 2020JGC is a example of no user accessible filter AND no fill tube from top. Fluid can be changed but requires at minimum usually a vehicle lift or level surface.
Whatever the change intervals is for the fluid in the owners manual or recommended service schedule is......Cut in half and the higher the interval is possibly cut in thirds.
If manual/service schedule says 60K then probably change fluid at 30K.
100K replacement intervals maybe every 25K or maybe 35/35/30K etc........
If the service interval is below let’s say 35-40K. Probably no need to halve unless you have other indicators of problem.....( fluid loss, rough shifting etc...)
Each owner is ultimately responsible but hopefully this can be some food for thought about general upkeep and longer transmission service life.
I love how it behaves in my Wrangler. Itll hold gears, burble, and pop when you let off. Its not a manual by any means but the way it shifts, hold gears, and just generally operates is really quite excellent. The only bad thing about it is it's absurd fluid change procedure.
As far as I'm concerned torque converters are the most amazing mechanical devices in existence.
Invented by GM
Naw, superchargers yo!
And bloody boring, inefficient and power wasting
MacTechG4 By allowing torque multiplication,at clutch lock up heat and inefficiency are gone. If it’s boring then it’s tuned wrong. They’re stronger than any manual trans that can fit in a car. Shifting manually is fun of course but they’re a comprise at best and a limitation once torque is upped. Having to use a 2.26 to 1 spread is boring and irritating in most situations.
@@MrGreenelight - The torque converter is a German invention, the automatic a Canadian, but sold to GM.
And the best thing is, that the owner of ZF is a foundation which does a lot for the people in their region. So you can say, if you‘re buying a ZF 8HP, you‘re helping people with it.😁👌
Greetings from Germany!😊👋
That’s nice to know, 👍. Great gearbox though, I have it in my 2018 530d xdrive, better that double clutch boxes. ☘️🇮🇪.
That's a great thing. Hope it's not like Rolex watch dodgy charity status. Lol.
Love my ZF in my 118i 😊🇦🇺
Just remember to change to transmission fluid and filter at 80,000km. There's no such thing as a lifetime fluid BMW..
exactly some people really believe they make life time fluid
anyusernamesleftest why? My E36 with 280.000km on it, shifts just fine. Never changed anything inside the transmission. A german car-news journal took apart a automatic transmission from a 200.000km E39, inside it was like new, with the original ZF ceiling on it!
@@matthiaskoeppel187 What ZF and BMW recommends are two different things. I'd listen to the manufacturer. You owned your E36 from new?
anyusernamesleftest nope but the transmission is still ceiled, you cant change the oil without destroying the ceiling.
@@matthiaskoeppel187 What sealing are you talking about? Have you ever serviced a trans?
One of my top reasons for choosing my last truck was the ZF transmission. In 2014 Ram's powertrain was head and shoulders above the competition. The only negative I have is the filter is built into the pan so if you want to change the fluid and filter you have to buy a new pan. I know they claim the fluid is "lifetime" but they also say "lifetime" is 100,000 miles so if you plan on putting 200,000 or 300,000 miles on a vehicle you will be buying several transmissions pans. Seems like the filter could have been made replaceable for very little cost. There are aftermarket pans with replaceable filters but they are very expensive.
I got one out of a jag, and made an adapter for the LS & SBC engines, and now I’m building an arduino based tcm. All of which will be going into my 89 Camaro. This really is the best transmission I’ve ever experienced.
Great video and explanation of how this ZF works. The ZF 8 speed in my Challenger is amazing..best auto ever!
I work at the ZF plant in SC where we build that transmission and also build the 9HP. The BMW plant in SC that builds their SUVs just signed a massive contract with us to continue using ZF transmissions
That is good to hear K brizzle, when I was there at ZF Gray Court SC, the BMW Greenville /Duncan plant which is less than 20 miles from Gray Court SC that makes the same 8hp, would get their transmissions shipped all the way from ZF Germany to go into the US built BMW's
That didn't make much sense to me.
I hate bmw and zf transmissions. Audi all the way and dct.
@@leonardoarispe4689 disaster dsg and s tronic... Zf is lighting years ahead
@@leonardoarispe4689wouldnt recommend looking at what audis been using as an auto then
I love the 8-speed ZF transmission in my Chrysler 300 and will be getting the transmission oil changed soon, to help keep it healthy! 😊
You are the only one I know who can make a box full of gears sound like a gourmet dining experience.
In this case it is.
The new BMW giant grill/badge/kidney-thing looks absolutely ridiculous.
Yeah. Way to boxey and tall.
H8rs
I think it looks awesome dont know what you’re on about
Bill Kerr i love it
VW’s isn’t much better
ZF8HP is such a buttery smooth transmission. Ive had it in 3 vehicles and loved it in all of them.
ZF must be still proving them self, I know the zf6 and zf5 behind 7.3s are awesome transmissions with that granny low and duel syncro 2nd 3rd and 4th. Tough transmission.
I'm super surprised that this video doesn't mention my favorite advantage of the ZF-8 over DCT: The ability to switch gears non-sequentially. My charger could drop from 6th to 2nd when I wanted to take off, DCTs usually cannot do that (maybe they can switch between say 5 and 2 but not 4 and 2 because that'd be the same clutch, but I dunno if anyone has implemented that)
Look up Koenigsegg Jesko!
Dual clutches do downshift an even number of gears, they are pretty fast. Having tried this ZF and the DSG I've noticed no difference in time response during a kick-down: they're both kind of slow and take almost one second to downshift. The DSG is truly instantaneous when downshifting one single gear though (it might be always pre-selected).
Finding out my 15 dodge durango V6 had this transmission was a Plus !
ZF goes back quite a while. I remember the ZF being the dominant transmission in the 1968 GT 40
They made gears for german panzers.
Oh YA....THAT IS COOL
I’ve driven cars with that 8 speed. He’s absolutely right about the performance. It’s an amazing DCT, wait I meant automatic transmission.
I've always been impressed by the genius of the people who design these.
**TH400 enters the chat**
**Powerglide enters the chat**
James Fox
“Trans guy” has a whole lot of connotations nowadays. Lol
@@stlchucko No doubt! You got me on that one.
@ I absolutely hated it's newer version the 4L60 that thing was awful. Well maybe okay for an SUV or light pick up but was weak for a half ton.
@@bryanmartinez6600 Meh they aren't terrible if you have a tuner that knows the transmissions limitations. I'm making around 520whp through a bone stock 4l60 and it hasn't given me any issues yet. The 4l80 is a superior transmission in all categories though.
@ I hope all those 4L60 upgrades were in place by the time they built my 2011 Silverado... I have 92k miles and no issues so far, not even hiccup.
I can't praise the ZF 8HP enough. And I'm a manual guy.
Rip the manuals, sad times we're living in haha.
@@Z4G. I've made my peace with the inevitable demise of manuals. My current car is a manual, but pretty much every other I like and can think of buying is automatic. Having the 8HP makes the transition a lot easier
I totally agree, on the same boat
ZF8 + B58 = Heaven😚😆😎😎😍
Koenigsegg’s new transmission! 🧡 the best new transmission
Hoping to do a video on it eventually! :)
Great! Can’t wait. I understand the concept when Christian K. explained it but as always, I’d like to know more :)
everyone knows auto trans run on black magic. disappointed that you completely failed to mention this anywhere
I did a transgo pressure regulator in my 5hp19 and it shifts so smoothly.
Gotta have proper control over the black magic.
Yep. Best transmission ever. Mine was (in a BMW) delaying shifts like it was on break every gear and it would slip when doing agressive kickdown actions. A full ZF kit later it is like I have a new car. Just unbelievable.
LOL, after all that dissertation praising the ZF 8-speed automatic - "I'd rather have a manual transmission..."
Ever since the invention of the automatic transmission, manual shifting has mostly resulted in better transmissions with higher efficiency. Since the last 10-5 years, however, we're slowly moving towards transmissions that shift better and smarter than any human being ever could. I think this was inevitable.
@@francoisleveille409 More efficient? Maybe, but much less fun.
@@alexgorski5031 Not to me! I'd love to drive a McLaren F1 one day but I can't drive manual!
Only if he can get any premium auto with Manual anymore. All are converting themselves to zf automatic as it provides better efficiency and fuel economy better than the manual. Due to strict emission regulations they are avoiding the manuals. I’ve been driving my bmws with zf from 2010 and it is an amazing box and never want to go back to manual or dct. BMW is well ahead in the game of rolling out this trans on all their models and also well ahead in the way the software is developed to marry engine to the power train compared to later entries of manufacturers such as Audi and Jaguars with sluggish or jerky low speed controls.
True indeed tested out some autos and ended up getting a manual GTI as my daily driver.
dual clutches have their own set of issues: low speed smoothness problems, more frequent maintenance with expensive fluid, higher weight, and cost. These fast torque converter transmissions are good enough 99.9% of the time where you dont need bleeding edge performance.
Koeingsegg says they are good for bleeding edge performance also, with only one gear.
I just got my first automatic car, a BMW f11 530d with this transmission and i was a bit worried with having an automatic for reliability reasons. I have to say that this video (along with many others on this 8hp) give me alot of confidence and peace of mind😅
ZF gearboxes have always been brilliant.
Sorry but I must say that you are not completely right. While ZF does make some great transmissions they also produce some real duds. Their 9 speed trannys currently used in a plethora of vehicles including Ram/Fiat/Stellantis/Chrysler/Honda etc has dog clutches that have caused and still continue to provide a very unsettling experience to many owners. Everyone is allowed a bad egg once in awhile, but the problem I have is ZF is still producing them in massive quantities and they are being sold to an unsuspecting/uneducated public.
Yes, I work where we build it, and we cannot make enough of them !!
salaries must be huge with all that extra work.
This type of auto was right right from the start which is why it is with us today and constantly being improved upon and what makes it really good
is the torque convertor which cushions the connection between engine output shaft and transmission input shaft with a fluid for that smooth operation
especially around the suburbs which is where most people do their driving. There is no physical/material connection unlike a DCT which shudders and jerks
at low speeds as Jason so rightly pointed out and is mentioned in every car review that I have read that had a DCT. Some CVTs have a torque convertor to.
What are the forces and heat and wear generated every time the dual clutches of a DCT snap bang in milliseconds when they engage time after time. No thanks,
not for me. The fact that we have gone from 2 speed autos to 10 speed within the same size or smaller, lighter and more efficient really highlights its virtues.
Long live the conventional auto!
Very cool,
Actually probably the best auto ever built
The TH400
Built for almost 30 years was in everything from Cadillac to Ferraris to RR to small dump trucks and H1 hummers in the gulf war. And versions are even still being made by race companies today.
A dinosaur compared to this ZF but still legendary
I like how i can understand his white board sessions but not my engineering professor's
That's because you don't have to write exams. If you were tested and graded on what you actually learned from EE, you'd realize you actually missed many naunces.
As soon as he said "zed" instead of "zee" I was hooked (from the UK :) ). I have a BM with this gearbox and it is crazy good. I tend to drive it in Sport/Manual mode and it is so good I don't think I could go back to anything else. There is no way I could shift this quick with a manual gearbox - and I've been driving manuals since 1978. I like the fact that this gearbox has "3" clutches. That's one more than dual clutches. :) :)
Owning both a new BMW with a ZF and the ZL1 with the 10 speed, I fee that the particular GM unit is superior but the ZF is very good. I was surprised at home close they behave in the most aggressive settings.
I would like to see a direct comparison to the GM 8-speed, which was touted when they dropped it in the '15 Corvette to be the fastest shifting transmission in the world.
I love how torque converter delivers power and the way it "engages" from stand
Dual clutches try to simulate a torque converter by slipping the clutch and they do a pretty good nowadays, I've once driven a BMW assuming it was a regular auto, only to find out later it was a DCT. Likewise, I confused a Mini regular automatic for a DCT (because of the NIC: it disengages the clutch at a standstill only to re engage it when letting the brake go, the same way a DCT does).
@@demagab it is not just about the way it feels, no clutch can multiply torque when starting ...
My honda has a torque converter and a clutch to be disengaged at a stand still...
After only recently moving to a job as a technician in a JLR dealer ship I can 100% confirm the 8hp is a nice auto box performance wise ! Even in 2.5 tonne discover 4’s they feel sporty to drive !
And for all those reasons it is perfect in my hard working vw Amarok.
Autos never stopped being cool with the drag racers ;-)
Numinous for smooth take offs. Traction mate.
@@nordic5490 Yep, that and not nearly as much time not lost shifting.
I worked at a BMW dealership and fell in love with the ZF 8-speed in a 2015 435i ZHP. With the car in Sport Plus the transmission would do exactly what you told it to, immediately, without question. Hard on the brakes and rear wheels chirping from aggressive downshifts is what did it for me. In today's world of electronic nannies, I was happy to be in a car that obliged to all of my commands. BMW has the best tune for the ZF, other car's tunes seem to be on the safer side, still good though.
What a horrible appearance on the road that X7 is..
Great transmission though
They have overdone the grill.
and bmw makes fake grills now, seriously bmw....
@@itechiwizard83 Oxford professors are hard at work developing a new word to describe how overdone that grille actually is.
@@sudd3660 It's kind of ironical that Lexuses today have real grills and real vents and real tale pipes yet Mercs and Bimmers nowadays have a lot of fake vents and tale pipes and grills.
BMW need to learn that the big Lexux grills does not work in a BMW styling.
This SUV would look loads better if they reduce the height of the grill by about 40%.
@@paulparoma They just make whatever that can make them a ton of money. They'd even make bicycles if that's what help them make the most amount of money.
Wow, the ZF 8HP got 1 million view 👍
I wish Ford and GM use this transmission.
Regards.
it's too expensive for a ford. they put it only in luxury vehicles.
@@korencek also GM and Ford don't care about quality.
ZF 8 speed, I agree. I have a ZF 6 speed at 200,000km, never an issue and still smooth.
How's reliability? I feel reliability is important to be the very best.
Change oil and filter ~3y/ 90.000km and you'll be fine.
Don't change transmission oil and you're f...ed.
cousin got bmw f11 with zf and oil was never changed. Car is at 250km and runs great
The quicker they shift, the less they slip, the longer they last.. at least that what a transmission shop once told me.
@@TheOlsonOutfit that's exactly how it works. Less heat gets put in the fluid and then everything last longer.
1:07 "Infinate speeds with CVT's" *Little Einstiens theme song starts playing*
Infinite *
I have been a fan of automatics from the time I started driving in the late sixties when stick shift and clutch were cool. Launching a big block at say six thousand rpm is fun. While I don't know the name of the person to credit for the idea but with some machine work on a GM Turbo 400 the converter was replaced with a clutch and pump.
Fun at launch and no missed shifts.
It was the early days of high stall converter technology.
The two speed slip and slide GM Powerglide was reborn into a well used drag racing trans. Gotta to love them automatics.
Now explain how you can buy one and integrate it in your project car :D
I think It wouldn't be that hard, if aftermarket PCM/TCM companies will support coverage of its shift logic control. Much like how many of them can control older electronic autos already, it just depends on if the aftermarket seizes on perceived demand from customers. And hey, if you snag the whole engine/trans package from the wreckers then you can just use the stock PCM (immobilizer delete notwithstanding, of course)!
That would be counterproductive. Replacing the best manual shifter on the planet for a unreliable, impossible to service and a lot more expensive one ...
if you havent seen it yet look into htg tuning or turbolamik, theres also plenty of adapter plates out there for them
Even 6HP ZFs were awesome, especially in 35i variants. You can tune them with software upgrade too! (xHP)
Fabulous video. I totally agree with your assessment of this truly fabulous transmission. My wife is recently in a 2024 BMW X3 sDrive30i with the ZF 8HP and I am truly thrilled about how incredible this thing is. Had 2 DCT’s (a 2012 Jetta SportWagen TDI [DSG] and a Porsche 911’with PDK and while they were fun with quick positive shifts I always feared a failure and it’s associated costs. When researching a new car I discovered this ZF and it’s great reviews. I am so happy with the ZF. It is just too cool that a torque converter transmission is this responsive and more than likely durable, plus cheaper to maintain and repair replace. I personally want to drive manuals forever, but I know those days are numbered. Either by my aging or lack of production.
Time to upgrade your Tesla with one!
@@bubajack7461 it's a joke.
@@bubajack7461 woooof
*@Buba Jack has left the chat*
@@m.h.3679 lmao what did he say
@@greynolds17That's what I'd like to know as well
How does it compare to the GM-Ford 10 speed used in the Chevrolet camaro ZL1?
Hey, any news about this?? I have the same question
They’re similar in several areas, comparing lighter duty 10R/10L to 8HP/8L. Both employ 4 separate planetary gear sets, the 1-4 ratios are identical and 10th is common to ZF 8th. Ford essentially combines triple clutch sets to replace doubles. The result is 10 forward speeds in same length as the 8 forward speed box. The maximum torque rating ranges 600-650 ft*lbs, depending upon the version. The heavy duty 10R140, GM version known as 10L1000, shares several design elements but is considerable larger in diameter and length while offering 70% higher torque limit.
Im a chrysler tech and these transmissions are bullet proof. Never have any issues with these
Great video. I am no engineer and I read really great things about the new 10 speed automatic made by Ford used in trucks like the Ranger, F150 but also in sport cars. Would love to learn more about that too if you ever have a chance to look into it. Im also curious to know how strong they can kake these boxes, as in hoe much torque can they take before they explode