Tai Chi Guy Steps Into The Cage - Tai Chi vs Sanda
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- Tai Chi guy Li Yuangang tries to use some Tai Chi techniques in the cage against a Sanda Kickboxer. Are we able to see some Tai Chi concepts applied to mixed martial arts? Let's watch and see. This is from the most recent season of King of Dragons in Taiwan. For those of you who practice Tai Chi, let us know what apparent Taijiquan principles are used in this match (if any). The opponent's name is Liu Congyou. What could he have done better in this match? Be sure to go follow KOD Championships (籠中之王).
The full match on KOD Championship: • 仁王篇 Super Fight 李沅剛（太極...
The super cute dog IG at the end: blazingbaussies
Timecodes:
0:00 Round 1 Li Yuangang vs Liu Congyou
3:49 Round 2 Li Yuangang vs Liu Congyou
7:30 Round 3 Li Yuangang vs Liu Congyou
11:35 Winner announced
11:45 KOD Championship shoutout
12:32 Outro ft. blazingbaussies
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That hilarious call back (shoulder check humor) here: th-cam.com/video/oUXi0oZ4jog/w-d-xo.html
Professor Perry recommended this tutorial based on the back heel trip that Tai Chi guy did at 5:42 - th-cam.com/video/W956nJ9EEn0/w-d-xo.html
The account on IG with the super cute dogs: blazingbaussies
Tai-Chi-Zombie-Style... i'm comiiinggg..... uuuhhhh! :) :) :) Braindamage inclusive !!!
Hey Jerry! I just did a write-up in the comments section to clarify many common misconceptions about Neijiaquan that I've actually been wanting to do on your channel for years now. I dare not let you feel obligated in any way to read it, but I did indeed write it with your edification in mind also. 🙏Just my humble perspectives and observations of Neijiaquan in general, but also this Tai Chi fighter and this fight in specific.
Thank you very much, either way!
Gong Xi Fa Cai! 🧧🧧🧧
-Shin Markus
The Tai chi guy needs to move quicker
In my opinion, Tai-Chi has more similarities with Shuai-Chiao. Aikido's roots come from the "eagle claw" (Ying Jow Pai), maybe.
The tai chi guy looked like a better fighter than most tai chi masters.
Thank you for sharing ☺️.
"Masters". Remember the Taoist dictum, "The man who speaks does not know. The man who knows does not speak." The real Masters aren't drunk on their own Kung Fu Kool-Aid, taking on challenges to prove something to their fragile egos. lol but yes- I agree this guy looks like he's doing a lot better against real pressure than the embarassments that fought Xu Xiaodong.
The Tai Chi guy needs to protect his head more, but aside from that, he's adapting the takedown elements from Qin Na very well.
As a Tai Chi guy, this is extremely encouraging.
There's loads of flaws of course, but it looks like parts of the Taiji community are taking these public losses and embarrassments to heart and putting a sincere effort into understanding the actual application of the art.
This is a huge leap in quality, hoping to see more.
This guy Li Yuangang is back. I just found another match, full mma rules this time, with him. So stay tuned ;)
@@FightCommentary I'll look out for that!
That’s the hardest I’ve ever seen a chi guy fight
He is terrible on tai chi. Have no focus on the fight. He show nothing using Ying yang. Part of tai chi is to balance everything including the attacker attack.
This is the closest I have seen a tai chi practitioner to fight like I have been taught to apply my tai chi. That long, open guard is suposed to be used to go forward, put your hands on the oponent and establish contact as soon as you can as Li did right here, but he completely disregarded the protection of his head. You are suposed to still block and parry, even bring your arms back if necesary, until you are able to close the distance and reach clinch range where you can start fighting with your tui shou (pushing hands). You are also suposed to throw strikes back, so your oponent has something to worry about too, which allows to close the distance more safely and also possibly damage him before reaching your desired range. That moment at 9:30 where he fired a right and then went in was the cleanest, most of the book instance he managed to pull off.
To his credit, he did get to clinch/grappling range a lot and so he didn't get rekt in long striking range before he could do anything as we usually see tai chi guys get handled. But he was too focused on trying to take down his oponent. If you can't take him down for wathever reason, then it's fajin time, short range explosive striking of which sanda guy used more than him. I was really disapointed to not see more elbows, knees or shoulder strikes from Li. He threw only a couple of those, sanda guy peppered him all match with them lol. Li didn't kick at all either.
But anyways, that's the hardest I have seen a tai chi practitioner fight and also look like he was attempting tai chi. So I'm proud of him and I do hope he keeps going forward, testing himself. I'd love to see where his journey takes him.
What??? How that is the right things??? Taichi have strikes, not just push hand
@@malakatan3235 did you read my comment? I did say he should have striked more, I was actually dissapointed he basically didn't throw any.
Given I dont train taichi but a similar art that uses tai chi concepts what you just wrote sounds spot on ! At least as to how its taught to us plus we also use a lot low front kicks as well. Where did you learn to fight with taichi principles if I might ask?
Yeah Taiji has a "teep kick"; it's great for a mid to long range position reset. Every art has a jab, and you need to put it out there to keep your opponent from setting up combos. The scooping parry you see in advanced MMA hand fighting mid to short range is in the Taiji as well, though it is an advanced technique that takes awhile to apply effectively. Level changes are in Tai chi chuan as well, and need to be applied to Taiji Qinna tech. There is generally more success to be found learning submission grappling before learning Tai Chi Chuan than there is the opposite, in terms of overall fighting skill and application IMO.
@@Knorzo I had a teacher that taught me a couple of forms and their aplications, as well as tui shou exercises to develop skills. What I know comes from Chen and Yang style.
Taichi guy is a diamond in the rough. He's not seasoned but if he can find a coach that helps him develop defense he couldlearn how to use the many simple hand techniques of tai chi to defend. he has an incredible chin and body resilience. Also for some reason you ignore the fact he was constantly throwing knees. he's fearless and calmly moves into the danger zone. What he needs to do is come to Columbia mo. I'll work with him, get him the right sparring partners and he could be the Qi La La of Tai Chi Cuan.
Agreed. He has some fighting skills, but doesn't look like he's done enough sparring. The hands forward stance, shouldn't be as wide, except for defense. For offense, the Tai Chi hands forward should be in the opponent's face as if for quick jabs to nose and eyes. I don't know if the elbow is allowed, but one smooth close in technique is to punch, and if blocked, then elbow, and if blocked, then shoulder. A good, solid shoulder can shake the opponent's base, and it looked like he tried these. I didn't evidence of Ting jin in the clench, feeling and anticipating the opponent. And, I didn't see evidence of an attack generated from the waist/hips, rather than just the arms - nothing explosive.
Don’t give the art credit. He’s just a good fighter. With a more complete martial arts discipline he’d be way better.
Kinda surprised to see that at 7:15 we see that Sanda guy's face is very beat up, with a nasty looking split above his eye. Then it cuts to taichi guy, showing his face rather undamaged in contrast. Clearly he is doing something right that is not being clearly represented in what we're watching.
Tai chi guy landed short punches while in standup and downward forearm strikes to his grounded opponent. All unoticed by the commentator. It's like seeing videos of a cat and the commentator saying dog.Thamks for showing the fight though Jerry.
Bruce lee: be like water
Tai chi guy: be like glue
Haha
this thai chi guy is like a serial killer in a horror movie, just walking straight and slowly to his victim, not caring if he himself gets hit or hurt.
That's actually Muay Thai style.
Whenever you upload I empty my mind and become Zen, because I can never guess what the eff sort of fascinating bizarre martial arts you'll show next.
In that first minute where he was eating punches, he was trying to neutralise and tie up his opponent's arms. That CAN work, but as we see, it's pretty dangerous to start trying to do while the opponent has enough space to still box effectively. It's arguably better to start with proper boxing form and then transition to that kind of control once you're already in trapping range
Tai chi guy need to train more head movement, some palm strike and combine with jiu jitsu . Tai chi guy try to 以柔克刚 but always getting hit in the head is a very bad idea .
Agreed. Jiu Jitsu and Shuai Jiao [ there is a shuai jiao Tai Chi form made by Grandmaster Chang Tung Sheng. I saw him at the Ohio Set University in the mid 1980s.] have many similarities from Chinese wrestling. But, Shuai Jiao is more vicious, used for self defense to maim and kill with explosive throws ... rather than take downs in ring fighting.
This is the best I've seen a tai chi guy fight.
Hey, thanks for the shout out!
It was an interesting match. The Tai Chi guy had a Long Guard, which is a completely valid guard, but he just didn't seem to know how to use it. Strange. I did like the little "Back Heel Trip" he did [it's on my youtube page, FWIW]. The Tai Chi guy did seem to have a good connection, at times, but just not much follow through, as you mention.
---Great video as always!
Good stuff! Thanks for your comment. I'll include the back heel trip in my pinned comment too!
"Everyone knows Tai Chi until they get punched it the face"-some guy
This fight more like " everybodys got iron body skill till they get kicked in the nuts".Without the ten second on the ground rule Tai chi guy would've won though.
Love seeing a video blow up before I get to it!
The hand position is found in the opening move of most Tai Chi sets, and many schools that teach Tai Chi as a martial art do in fact teach that square position with hands up and evenly spaced as a possible "ready" position for fighting or self defense.
In my experience they don’t teach a guard like that
The tai chi guy is actually isn't bad he should clinch strike more instead of going for takedowns
Tai Chi guy's use of effortless soft connection was pretty good, and yes, the purpose is to tire out a struggling opponent like a hooked fish. But there's another Tai Chi principle, an effective form of non-telegraphed slipperiness that allows you to fire off deep penetrating heavy strikes while staying connected, and not allowing your opponent to flee your grasp, which I think is the key to most of Tai Chi's arsenal of strikes.
Great work on the Tai chi guy to force the opponent to play his game. He would do well to hone his head movements and focus next on finishers from the push hands position. Thanks for sharing. I have a few Tai chi applications demoed on my channel as well.
I do Chen hunyuan taijiquan and this guy leaving his face wide open is maximum cringe. He should've also tried more sweeps as taijiquan has tons of them. Just my thoughts.
A good standing footsweep can put a stop to strikers.He did land short punches and cut the sandals guy eye.
@@charlesbetancourt7337 absolutely. He had the tools but didn't use them.
This is the first time I've ever seen someone spam hugs in a fight
That’s hilarious! Never thought that, but so true!
I've heard that Li Yuangang is sandbagging here, in order to simulate a "pure style comparison." Okay fine. But we know that prior to 1950, Taijiquan explicitly taught a higher guard, faster footwork, and to punch anyone who needs punching. And even today, the modern "Taiji for health" form practice still contains a lot of punches and kicks... so I am confused by the implicit claims in his performance.
A better title for the video would be "Qigong Guy Steps Into Cage."
I like that. Even if he had used 'traditional' Tai Chi fighting techniques during contact, we would've seen the result, if not the strike.
Thanks
Great video
good, and fair commentary. 👍
KOD is a really cool promotion, I think it would be better if they allowed single leg and double legs takedowns, I like the dynamic of striking + takedowns like we see on Sanda
Hopefully they add those takedowns in the future!
He has more balls and ambition than i will ever
Tai chi is really wrestling based. Also from what I understand in China basically every school that practices legitimate traditional kung fu, sends students into Sanda tournaments and that’s why a lot of Sanda champs know kung fu(Most are Changquan practitioners). It also explains why the Sanda guy knew tai chi techniques(the shoulder block being reminiscent of tai chi, Bagua, Xingyi, Bajiquan, and a few other styles).
@Tai Chi Tube There are different forms of tai chi, the ones commonly taught in China are heavily grappling based. Besides that I never stated that the styles didn’t have striking techniques, Just that they focused more on grappling.
Where did you get the idea that Tai Chi is wrestling based?
Because it’s a business for profits so the so called masters would like to open the shop as many as they can.
@@therealchristophernomiddle376From all of the throws and the fact that push hands sparring involves little to no striking.
After seeing so many Martial Arts that involve “individual training” with katas or forms being beaten down, is there still any martial art worth “training” on your own that would allow you to be better prepared than having done nothing?
Oh boy, a new FCB video!
I thought the Tai Chi guy was a zombie at first TBH. That's all that he did every single round was slowly walk arms wide to the Sanda guy and then bear hug. To bad flying knees aren't allowed? It would of taken out the Tai Chi guy right at the start. That Tai Chi guy was a walking punching bag.
Please, where's the shoulder check from?
Please show more of Tai Chi guy if you have any more!
See the video " Tai chi vs. wrestling maybe Greco Roman angle 1 shadow xu" and " tai chi vs freestyle wrestling 2 shadow xu ".
Guy is fighting like George Foreman and I mean in a good way. George would also reach his hands out like that and I'm assuming he does it to feel his opponent and to move around to a favorable angle if it meant pulling his opponent to another angle or pushing his opponent away.
The problem is that George is a giant and Taichi guy is short so he's not able to pull off the maneuvers as intended anyway because Sanda guy is taller than him, it would've helped if he ducked the punches or covered up before transitioning to a clinch. Just a good thing that the Taichi guy was incorporating subtle headmovement and blocks to at least lessen the impact of the strikes which I almost didn't notice until I slowed the footage which explains why he wasn't knocked out but still, it would've helped if ducked or covered up before a clinch, especially towards a taller opponent.
Also speaking of George, if I were Taichi guy, I'd include studying George Foreman's movements and incorporate it to my fighting because like you mentioned, he could do much more than just connect so putting his opponent at a disadvantageous angle or finding a favorable angle for strikes would help, especially takedowns. Taichi guy may not have won but he has potential.
The taichi guy has chin for days and a nice cardio, and technically he wasn't supposed to outgrapple a Sanda guy, so props to him lol
prior to government's intervention, Tai Chi's main use is actually to outgrapple your opponent and subdue them. it just becomes Chinese Aikido at some point. especially with the emergence of hong kong cinema where they treat it like some kind of magical bullshit
If no 10 sec on the ground, he should win
The stance reminded me of Nick Diaz v Koji Oishi at UFC 53. It did not go well for Oishi.
Can anyone explain why the fighters were separated when they were on the ground? Is it a kickboxing rules match?
To answer the question about the ground fighting skills of Taijiquan posed in the video,
Taijiquan is a "stand-up grappling martial art" not a "ground based grappling martial art". Orthodoxly, Taijiquan has no "real" ground grappling techniques.
The traditional logic is that you can't relieve crushing pressure if you're stuck in place, so why put yourself on the ground where you can be easily smashed between a fist and a hard place? It's easier to slip in open air. That is the main thinking. In Taijiquan, you're always supposed to be on your feet, and not laying on the ground with the opponent.
Mount and pound is not a thing typically taught, found, or trained against in Taijiquan. Mostly because it's kind of an inefficient thing to force on the other person, and a stupid place to find yourself in.
Defensively, regarding the mount, it's the whole "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" logic. If you finding yourself on the ground often, the traditional thinking in Taijiquan isn't that you need to develop a ground game, it's that you need to train fall prevention and recovery more.
Falls are considered a body control problem. Gravity does not bother pillars, for pillars are always supported from below. If gravity is bothering you, you need to learn to maintain a pillar relationship between your head and your base. That generally means you need more lower body awareness, and to learn how to use your legs properly. It's okay to slant, but it's never okay to cantilever out.
Offensively the question on the mount is: why sit on someone and hit them with just your fists, when you can stand over then, crush them with your full body-weight, and the full strength of your legs? Thus mounting techniques using the the chest or hip are extremely uncommon, to the point of being non-existent in Taijiquan. The only common "mounts" are those using the foot, shin, or knee.
Full seated mount is scary and personal, but fairly easy to both attack and defend. Jujitsu guys can tell you as much. Side control is typically harder to beat. When a Tai Chi guy has to pin someone, they'll usually do it with some kind of an arm lock or leg lock, usually with some kind of pressure on the other person's body or head to get both tearing and compressing pressure.
So there's actually not a lot of variety in typical Tai Chi Chuan ground fighting. Just a few things that work well. Almost exclusively top control techniques.
If the other person gets you on the ground with an elbow lock or something like that, the general conclusion is that your goose is basically already cooked, and any further resistance is futile. You have failed the training, and any exercise usually ends there, resetting to the beginning.
Even if a Taijiquan practitioner had to adapt a ground game, all the main theories and techniques from stand-up fighting still apply to ground fighting though. Frame, slip, peel and clamp. Tear, break, wheel, and bump. The main thing is to not lie there, dumbfounded like a boob, and let the other person beat you silly. Do something! Anything! Just don't ever stop struggling!
Fighting is the struggle for the superior position (or the struggle for the meridian, as the classics say). If you stop seeking the superior position, how are you ever to win in combat?
Do we know if there was much of a weight difference? Tai chi guy is quite a bit smaller.
Boxing and wrestling, will get you thru almost any fight.
*Talks about connection while a ring girl is onscreen*
My brain: when did this turn into a dating video?
At 7:18 it shows the Sanda fighter got cut. How? Maybe when the Tai Chi fighter was doing ground and pound?
Fair commentary.
Hey there fight commentary breakdowns, I really think you should do another commentary on Choriok from our favorite Russian Master Victor, he has a channel now and his moves are different and look very genuine.
Big Thanks,
Me
Correct me if I am wrong, but tai chi guy seemed like he was chanting while he was on that stance.
Rocky Baozhing maybe I'm coming up with a Rocky Chinese name for the Tai chi guy🤣
Did the tai chi guy even throw one strike ? His just pushing the sanda guy against the cage to stop him self from getting hit is like a moral victory if he doesn't get ko'ed.
Definitely saw some connection with the tai chi guy but walking towards the sanda fighter with his face exposed isn’t a good long term strategy. Exciting to see some tai chi concepts actually working in a mma match.
What happened to the short range power of Tai Chi? At bare minimum shouldn't he be able to strike with his arms extended out like that?
I'm going to see about sending some shuai Chiao videos in.
Please do!
Hello, I watched Li Jingliang's high profile fight last night and I recently learned that Zhang Lipeng was the winner of The Ultimate Fighter China. Are the perceptions of MMA and Traditional martial arts in China changing?
If the tai chi guy keeps fighting he’ll learn what too do once he has good connection but he almost certainly needs more strikes .
I think the Tai Chi guy is a zombie. He actually thought he was auditioning for a walking dead spin off but he was on the wrong floor.
😝🤣🤣
That was utterly bizarre. It kind of felt like watching a kyokushin vs other style match, where the kyokushin fighter just unstoppably lumbers forward seemingly immune to strikes, except that unlike kyokushin the seeming immunity included strikes to the head.
Even so, I can't agree with the commenters saying tai chi guy was the best tai chi fighter they'd seen, because no matter how well he could shake off the blows to the head in the moment, fighting like that is still going to be one of the quickest paths to CTE I've ever seen. And even in the moment, it didn't seem to accomplish much more than sanda guy being unable to prevent tai chi guy from giving him a hug.
Other commenters are saying in reality he's more a jiu jitsu focused mma guy than tai chi. But even assuming that the KoD ruleset just meshes in the absolute worst way with whatever this guy's personal fighting style is, I cannot even begin to fathom what was going through his head that this approach was how he adapted to the ruleset.
On non fight notes, are you feeling better Jerry? Your voice sounds back to usual so hoping so. Also the dogs are adorable I wish I could hug them!
I don't understand the point of the Tai Chi guy keeping his hands and arms that wide. When you're wide open like that and your head isn't moving, you're going to get hit! It's not that complicated.
Trying neutralize the opponent and catch the other guys arms
The guard the Taijiquan guy was using is fairly orthodox.
It's actually the opening "Rising and Falling" movement in the traditional forms. I don't like how he was using it, it was a little too wide open to be an informed usage.
"Rise and Fall" comes first because it contains all the most important concepts in the style, and most of the rest of the techniques in the forms are "things that can happen, and things that one can do" but aren't necessarily the first best options, or the most efficient things to do. Honestly they are mostly superfluous to practical fighting. The opening is the first best "technique" in the system and the only one that is really required to be understood fully.
What the other techniques in the Taijiquan system do is to teach you how to use your body freely, for any and all purposes, and to "flow" and "swim" around the opponent's body and through their guard. People lose when they get stuck. Much of Taijiquan practice is resolving "stuck" situations on your own body and preventing getting stuck in the first place.
Timing is the first idea of the opening movement. Considering that most people rear back first and then strike, you can beat them to the punch if you teach yourself to shoot forward immediately, which also has the benefit of removing a telegraphing movement.
Proportion is the other idea of the opening movement. Two arms are better than one. Most attacks follow a 1-2, 1-2 pattern, with just one arm striking at a time, and the other rearing back. That means that you can deflect your opponent's single arm with just one of your own, and strike them with your other arm at the same time. So when in doubt, the first rule in Taijiquan is to shoot both hands out.
The point of the narrow long guard in Taijiquan is to occupy the line of the shoulders, and to favor the inner gate, since you force the opponent's arms to take the oblique angle away from your own body, blocking them from hitting you, while exposing their torso to both of your arms, opening them up for strikes to the vital organs. Grabbing their arms or torso and wheeling them around as is typically seen in Taijiquan is just the less harmful application of this concept. This also has the effect of shielding your own torso with your forearms which helps you defend more easily, and forces the opponent to try and go around instead of straight through, which is a nice bonus.
Traditionally the saying is that the hands stop at the shoulders. You can simply push the opponent to prevent them from attacking you effectively. More literally you can block and force back either shoulder to keep the opponent from being able to swing at you.
The falling motion in the forms refers to two things.
First that arms are fast, wavy things, and hard to catch out of mid air. However the closer they are to the root at the shoulder, the less they actually move, and the easier they are to catch. The shoulder itself basically doesn't move at all, so if you shoot for the shoulder you'll never miss, and you can slide down the arm for whatever your real target is.
Second the other application of the falling motion is sliding down the shoulder to collapse the arm at the bicep, or slide down the elbow and to use your forearms to hang on their forearms to achieve a similar effect, suppressing them, and pinning their body in place by hanging on their arm. This prevents them from attacking, prevents them from escaping, and forces them to take the full brunt of any strikes you hit them with at that position.
The main idea in most Taijiquan practice is to neutralize the opponent's power. In order to neutralize, you need to control the opponent, and in order to control them, you need to be able to touch them. The squared up stance lets you defend either side with equal speed, and lets you side-step past the opponent to either side to win the outside gate, which is less predictable than favoring either side with your stance.
Collapsed shapes are also a fairly big no, no in the style of Taijiquan. A collapsed guard is easy to hook around, and is easy to pin and follow in with a strike. The expanded shape gives you the "cone of defense" where a small movement further away from the body defends a larger area than an equally sized movement nearer to oneself.
The expanded shape also gives you the geometric advantage of "a staight line defeats a curved line" since the curved line needs to be longer to cover the same distance. That means that if you're straight, you're long and geometrically efficient, and if the opponent is curved to try and go around, then they are short and inadequate.
These are the main points of the Taijiquan guard as seen in the video and while the application was lackluster I was very pleased to see it.
I think the red corner is not really sanda just he participated in some sanda contests. He is actually more of a kickboxer and he is from my gym.
He is eating so much with his head.... and its kinda dangerous. But i have to say mad respect for the tai chi guy. I mean yeah... it shows that tai chi rarely spars... and maybe that martial art never did, even when we theorize it did in the past. But even taking that into consideration, the guy lasts 3 rounds and accomplish some interesting things. It takes guts to step into a ring / cage against a trained fighter. Respect.
Some say the taijiquan guy should protect his head more. That's not wrong per se however if he's done any of the old conditioning methods he may not have to. I don't know very much about it but it's called Golden Bell. It's conditioning for taking strikes because you will get hit obviously.
The Tai Chi guy's main overall problem in this match is that he's being too passive. No aggression to him. The Sanda guy is getting all the strikes in and the Tai Chi guy is getting none in. Not because the tai chi guy is missing his strikes, but because he basically isn't even trying. The Taijiquan style has strikes galore, but Taijiquan culture does discourage striking over controlling, which is probably why he was constantly trying to wrestle the Sanda guy instead of hitting him.
The Tai Chi guy did a reasonably good job after they got into the clinch, "neutralizing" the opponent and preventing the Sanda guy from doing anything useful. Still, this is a self-defense strategy, and not a combat sports strategy. With his philosophy, he had no possibility of winning, as he was entirely focused on not losing; thus he forgot to succeed. He needs to go back and read Sun Tzu, and apply those principles.
The Tai Chi guy also ate far, far too many shots getting in. Especially to the back of the head. That's a major no, no. Done forcefully, blows to the back of the head are the most lethal strikes and the most permanently debilitating strikes a person can get hit with.
In Taijiquan terminology, this "Tai Chi practitioner" is a "dead" fighter. He was about as "lively" as a stone, and not nearly responsive enough to prevent being turned into an actual inanimate object. In Bruce Lee's words, he was not like water. He didn't match the space, and he didn't match the pressure. He responded to the strikes like a stupid person, and not like a Taijiquan practitioner. He brings dishonor to himself, to his teacher, and to the style itself.
The Tai Chi guys needs to go back and learn basics. He needs to roll with the strikes, frame, slip, clamp, and peel. Said another way, he needs to learn to maintain central equilibrium, and he needs to learn Peng, Lu, Ji, and An. Otherwise, these are known as the 5 first things that get taught in a typical Taijiquan class.
Even if the Tai Chi guy is ignorant of even the most basic principles, the techniques he needs to defend himself are there in the forms. And he moves like he does some kind of honest Taijiquan practice. Why doesn't he use the basic techniques? This is why the Taijiquan guy has me shaking my head.
I'm not going to tell him to revoke his "Tai Chi Guy" card completely, because he did some things right, and he has "some" of the true flavor of Taijiquan in the way that he moves and uses his body.
This is why I am so critical of the Tai Chi fighter. He might actually be redeemable. What I say is meant to be taken constructively.
But his take-downs suck, he lets the other person hit him, and he doesn't know how to use his legs. Doing these three things well, are famously the corner-stones of the style, and his foundations are frankly rubbish.
I doubt he is a bad student. He probably needs a better teacher. Someone that can actually communicate functions and priorities. Taijiquan is a science and there is no reason a practitioner shouldn't be able to put on a respectable show of defending himself.
Solid performance by the Tai Chi guy, however an enfasis on the striking could be the Key to have at Least a competition 🤣
Ring girls aren’t distracting from a fight as there is no fight happening. The fight is entertainment so they fill the gap.
Yeah it definitely seems like he was trying to get into clinching range where most Tai Chi techniques can be applied. But as is typical for traditional martial artists he hasn't really trained in how to get in close without eating a bunch of punches. He had his hands out like he was trying to do push hands and just ate a bunch of strikes. Proper entry into close range without using iron face technique is something a lot of traditional chinese martial arts of this type lack imo since they were developed in a wrestling heavy context. When he did get into close range however he didn't use the close range clinch strikes that are supposed to be everywhere in tai chi. More than anything it looked like he was trying to use push hands techniques to do takedowns or throws but that's only one small part of what tai chi is supposed to have. But yeah if he had actual defense and was able to capitalize on the sticking and adhering that he actually was doing pretty well once he got inside then it might've gone differently. Think all it'd take for it to come together would be some supplemental striking training and some more attentions paid to tai chi techniques other than just sticking and adhering.
I'm a Tai Chi fighter, but I do not support giving the opponent a highway to my head. That said, Tai Chi is all about getting inside, and this guy is getting inside. But there's no using the opponent's energy against him here and that's key with Tai Chi.
I think Tai Chi guy is training from when he'll be resurrected as a zombie.
chen style is probably the origin of taiji, which has roots in longfist and probably white crane. originally very much a fighting art but it did become watered down over time especially when taught to royal family. which is similar to how modern society wants to learn something easy that will give them extraordinary ability. that is fantasy. taiji was originally one of the more effective combat arts at the time because it was trained that way, today it is often marketed as an effective fighting art based on its historical provenance alone and not the way it is trained.
like any combat art, its not so much the style but how that style is trained.. bjjitsu would test against all styles and refined their art to be dominant for a long time, wrestling's conditioning is proving to be dominant because of how hard they train. dagestani wrestlers train like rural mountain farmers with a lot of hunger, kinda like early rural chen farmers defending their village. taiji taught as legit fighting art is exceedingly rare these days but can be found if you really search.
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"Sanda guy used a Tai Chi technique"
That's because Sanda utilizes some Tai Chi, in addition to Shuai Jiao. So if anything, I'm seeing Tai Chi vs. Tai Chi but with other stuff.
Taichi is good on grappling but need to add some wushu for his strinking skills
I think if ground were allowed, the Tai Chi guy would have finished him.
This guy has taught me useful Tai Chi. th-cam.com/video/x_atkkJIqpA/w-d-xo.html He's the chap with the pony tail in the fight ive linked. Check out his channel from the link. Peace!
And here's Neil Rosiak's teacher, Dan Docerty in action in 1980: th-cam.com/video/q9FQql89PgU/w-d-xo.html
It looks like he took down a Greco Roman wrestler. I even see some Tai chi in his striking. See the video Tai chi vs.wtestling maybe Greco Roman angle 1 shadow Xu. Link it to others if you like it please. Especially non believers.
Cheers I’ll check it out.
Would i be wrong in saying that Sanda already incorporates the good parts of Tai Chi, since it's an amalgamation of other styles?
no
The taichi guy isn't used to sparring with other styles. He can connect but doesn't know how to strike or emit force for offense. Also lacks versatility and defense while entering. He should crosstrain in the animal expressions of taichi so he knows what to do after connecting.
You got it wrong. The guy in blue used Open Face Chi Chuan. It's a way better art than Tai Chi Chuan. It's so obvious.
Tai chi guy has the right idea, but the execution needs more work, especially the need to tighten up the long guard and switching up with some strikes when the opportunity presents.
i heard akido was influneced by chinese internal martial arts
Tai chi guy using "the Intercepting face technique"😂😂
so those tai chi forms i did so graceefully meant taking bombs to the face with grace 😆
Tai chi is more like a defense style used mainly for reversing the attacks or just hugging throwing idk I used to wanna learn tai chi but seeing all the tai chi guys getting their butt whooped bc they aren’t using what they are taught wisely or just being an easy target
Connection but no destination.
He grounded and pounded his opponent twice.
I do Chen Taichi and Kickboxing, I truly believe real Tai Chi could be deadly in a cage but it has to adapt, you can't go full tai chi and go straight on towards your opponent with open guard cause you ll get punished by any type of boxing, that's what happens in this fight: Tai chi gets hit so many times in the face he is like half KOed the whole fight and so he has no energy ro apply taichi when he actually manages to get at clinch distance.
Tai chi is deadly at clinch and also teaches how to strike very hard without range but we are still waiting for real Tai chi fighter to come through, maybe one days some guys will come out of Chenjiagou.
after one is done having kids is it ok to train in iron balls?
Please feature more Judo!!!!!!!!!
We have more on fight commentary grappling. But yes, I have a judo match I need to feature. This judoka uses it pretty well against mma.
As a shorter guy with less reach, he needs to work the angle. Coming right up through the middle means getting pounded in the face.
The wide hand guard is a Chen style thing
I don't see why Sanda doesn't elimate TaiChi's arms when they are up against the cage and lay the knees unto him...
I only know a little taichi applications, but I can tell you that you’re not supposed to hold your hands out and eat strikes to your head in order to get in and grapple. That is not good taichi.
So why is that happening? I think what tc guy is supposed to do is to be fluid and dynamic, use footwork to move in, out and sideways for defense. And the stiff arms out position is only supposed to be like that for a moment on the way in or out. Some boxers extent an arm to frame against their opponents, to handfight and to mess with the other boxers’ guard and interrupt their attacks. I think Vassily Lomachenko gives a good illustration of what that might look like. But our tc guy has only trained for that single moment when the arms are extended and connecting, so he just puts them out there and expect sanda guy to put his arms out so the handfighting can begin.
That’s my uneducated guess.
This fight could have been real short if the bigger guy had heavier fists and/or snap off an accurate high kick.
Nothing to me explicitly says Taiji except perhaps the way he "connects" to the opponent. His hand posture is vaguely reminiscent of Zhan Zhuang but even so I haven't really encountered or heard of that being taught as a fighting stance/guard in tuishou... really silly to use anything like that as a fighting posture.
What about his strong stance and the fact that he couldn't get tackled to the ground. See the video Tai chi vs. wrestling maybe Greco Roman angle 1 shadow xu ". And " Tai chi vs.freestyle wrestling 2 shadow xu ".
@@charlesbetancourt7337 There are plenty of people from different martial arts backgrounds with strong stances. That doesn't really signify taiji.
add some head movement or some parry with hands and it can work
What ? The sands guy apply more taichi than the taichi guy?elbow,Shoulder ramp, punch all in the taichi form . but the taichi guy only fovus in takedown the sanda guy with taichi wrestling forgot others can be used while grappling?
Would you punch the tai chi guy when he comes towards you like this offering a big bear hug?
Taichi guy can't defend or bridge vs striker due to lack of training in this area but does well once in contact.
To answer the question about the mount posed in the video,
Taijiquan is a "stand-up grappling martial art", not a "ground based martial art", and orthodoxly, has no "real" ground grappling techniques.
The traditional logic is that you can't relieve crushing pressure if you're stuck in place, so why put yourself on the ground where you can be easily smashed between a fist and a hard place? It's easier to slip in open air. That is the main thinking. In Taijiquan, you're always supposed to be on your feet, and not laying on the ground with the opponent.
Mount and pound is not a thing typically taught, found, or trained against in Taijiquan. Mostly because it's kind of an inefficient thing to force on the other person, and a stupid place to find yourself in.
Defensively, regarding the mount, it's the whole "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" logic. If you finding yourself on the ground often, the traditional thinking in Taijiquan isn't that you need to develop a ground game, it's that you need to train fall prevention and recovery more.
Falls are considered a body control problem. Gravity does not bother pillars, for pillars are always supported from below. If gravity is bothering you, you need to learn to maintain a pillar relationship between your head and your base. That generally means you need more lower body awareness, and to learn how to use your legs properly. It's okay to slant, but it's never okay to cantilever out.
Offensively the question on the mount is: why sit on someone and hit them with just your fists, when you can stand over then, crush them with your full body-weight, and the full strength of your legs? Thus mounting techniques using the the chest or hip are extremely uncommon, to the point of being non-existent in Taijiquan. The only common "mounts" are those using the foot, shin, or knee.
Full seated mount is scary and personal, but fairly easy to both attack and defend. Jujitsu guys can tell you as much. Side control is typically harder to beat. When a Tai Chi guy has to pin someone, they'll usually do it with some kind of an arm lock or leg lock, usually with some kind of pressure on the other person's body or head to get both tearing and compressing pressure.
So there's actually not a lot of variety in typical Tai Chi Chuan ground fighting. Just a few things that work well. Almost exclusively top control techniques.
If the other person gets you on the ground with an elbow lock or something like that, the general conclusion is that your goose is basically already cooked, and any further resistance is futile. You have failed the training, and any exercise usually ends there, resetting to the beginning.
Even if a Taijiquan practitioner had to adapt a ground game, all the main theories and techniques from stand-up fighting still apply to ground fighting though. Frame, slip, peel and clamp. Tear, break, wheel, and bump. The main thing is to not lie there, dumbfounded like a boob, and let the other person beat you silly. Do something! Anything! Just don't ever stop struggling!
Fighting is the struggle for the superior position (or the struggle for the meridian, as the classics say). If you stop seeking the superior position, how are you ever to win in combat?
I love your in depth comments! Thank you for all the information!
The tai chi guy did honorably. Not scoring points, true. But he nullified the opponent and kept him in check AND was controlling the action. Under different rulesets, he would have won (something similar to Karate Combat, where initiative scores high)
if the ref wasn't standing them back up, I think the tai chi guy would have won.
Most of the strikes don’t look clean. Tai chi guy has really subtle movements that throw things off. Space between the hands may be for parrying and spatial manipulation, not sure
The Tai chi guy knows more about how to position himself on the BJJ-style ground than anything else and on top of that he shows off when he is blocking all the blows with his face. They think they are really superior for practicing tai chi or martial arts at 1000 years old and then they make a fool of themselves. I respect Chinese martial arts, some like Sanda or Shuai jiao or real tai chi, where sparring is done, not tai chi focused on chi and slow movements.
Tai Chi guy is not protecting his vitals as they approach one another and should be. The tai chi method includes instructions about keeping the shoulders and elbows low chest hollowed back rounded and protecting the center Line which clearly isn't being adhered to.