Vampire Bloodlines 2 Reveal Was Dissappointing At Best
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
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Unfortunately many of our fears were confirmed when we saw the PAX West reveal of Bloodlines 2, which looks little improved over its last showing...let us pray to the gods for a miracle!
World of Darkness has such great lore, everything to make a great game is there. But it requires a development team that can do it right. I really wish we would get WoD games and TV shows.
F'real dude.
Idk WTF is going on with WOD but everytime they try to make a game or something interesting it just blows up in their face
There technically is. Kindred: The Embraced from 1996 was loosely based on Vtm.
@@TeintaKukoroOMG YEAH
Someone else who rememebers that show!
It is not the era for that kind of a show. ''let me respect your pronouns, as I rip your throat out'' it just would not work thematically. Good idea though.
@@pepehandz7657 Triggered by pronouns once again. Let me guess, you also threw a fit over Starfield?
well I think the most worrying thing is, how much of RPG is there in BL2 right now under the new studio - who never done RPG before.
I have no hopes for this game whatsoever. Like, NONE at all.
Try playing bloodlines 1.
Original bloodlines 1 was a discontinued it was left with bugs, after some fans who fix it with mods, so I kinda agree with no hopes but might work with mods on it
Same and yet I will keep an eye on it🤡
There are no passionate mainstream developers anymore. Plus woke culture pollutes and permeates everything
Welcome to the club
Let's get the first thing out of the way: This is NOT the same team that created Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs or any of the other games. That team was fired when Sumo Entertainment bought The Chinese Room and the only remaining employees from the old team was the owners. After that they started hiring again and this time they've gathered people from like programmers from Rocksteady (Batman Arkham games), one of the lead writers is from the Hogwarts Legacy team Avalanche (she was responsible for the Sebastian Sallow questline) and Old Bioware. So it is not possible to apply Amnesia or any of the games to this project as it is a completely new fresh team.
Secondly, the reason why we don't really get to see RPG and story elements, dialogue options or customization this time is most likely because The Chinese Room is known for their walking simulators. They want to show off that they aren't making another walking simulator, that's why they have an extreme focus on showing combat gameplay first and foremost to try to get rid of the walking sim stigma that is around this studio in general.
Thanks for info man. Made me hope the game will be atleast decent.
I appreciate that they're showing that it's not a walking simulator, but fans of Vtmb need them to show off they know what Vtmb is, the trailer missed the mark there and after the turmoil this project was in, we need assurances on that front mostly. Showing you can make something else than a walking simulator is not the same nor does it confirm you can make Vtmb true to what this game should be. At most this only conveys we can make a game by 2023 standards using 2023 technology. Which isn't reassuring at all, this game needs Baldur's Gate 3 dialogue roleplay depth with Vtmb uniqueness imo.
Same team would be in their 50s
Excellent comment, this dudes video is a massive nothing sandwich
Sumo Digital acquired The Chinese Room in 2018, Since then, they have developed one game, "Little Orpheus", and that game was average at best.
I get the feeling that the developers simply don't have any understanding of why the original game was so beloved...
The decision to hire a walking simulator dev is a confusing one, to be sure. I'm equally nervous. I mean, why didn't they seek out Obsidian's services? They have years of experience with RPGs, and, still have at least a couple of employees that worked on the original at Troika.
Obsidian is owned by Microsoft; I am not sure they would have permitted it.
They’ve shown they can totally nail atmosphere and subtle horror like no other developer I’ve seen tbh. Dear Esther and Bloodlines are 2 of my absolute favourite games ever so. Worse case scenario it’s got a dense and captivating atmosphere and style with piss poor rpg mechanics.
@spellandshield what interests is I think it looks better maybe probably peaple have with look is art style I also was kind weird out with puching combat what blood magic look gun and smooth I think there maybe going to be more information in October or January where I think gameplay will release also I am not expecting game to be as good or better then bloodline 1 ithink could be good game like 7 or 6 maybe 8 but no 10 or 9?
@@jamesisaacson6379 Bloodlines is not a 9 or a 10 either. It's one of my favorite games but let's be objective here. The game wasn't finished which definitely takes 2 or 3 points off the score.
It did not help that the team that made bloodlines was one of the first source engine games and the devs had no idea how to use the engine efficiently like later devs did. If the team behind bloodlines had time to understand how the engine worked before starting on developing the game, it could've possibly been a much more completed game that required at least an expansion to finish it up.
Please Larian, save this IP 😂
larian is good but i dont think a top down rpg is a good fit for gameplay
Larian should stay far away from Bloodlines. I don't want them to turn another game into a shitty turn based system.
"I would like this to be good." yep, that's about it. While I am not expecting anything at all from this game, I'd be more than happy for them to surprise me and make an excellent Vampire video game RPG.
I’m not sure what to expect anymore with this. I do think The Chinese Room is a good developer for BL2. The horror feel they had in Amnesia Game of pigs was terrific. They’ve got a good set of games they’ve done. Mostly walking simulator types. But the other game they’re working on is supposed to a break away from that. Plus they’ve got a develop of Fable working in BL2. I’m prepared for it suck but I have a glimmer of hope. I think once we know about character creation we’ll have a better idea.
I think the interesting thing that gives me a glimmer of hope is the The Chinese Room team started out as Half-Life 2 modders so there's a chance they've played the original?? But as you said they've mostly worked on narrative walking simulators so I'm skeptical they can pull off an RPG of this scale with focus on dialogue, choices and action. I'm not exactly optimistic but I won't be pessimistic either.... just wait and see what they can do I guess.
I was so disapointed when i saw the new trailer , i mean the previous trailer was not perfect but it was a lot more creative, there is something bland aubout this new trailer.
Can't help but think that the seemingly creative minds at hardsuit labs could have done a great game during all these years
I agree. This trailer lacks style. Showed nothing but environments. The gameplay looks a little better but the textures are low. Looks like a 2012 game. They didn't show any of the different clans. No rpgs elements shown. I just don't see it.
I wanted to cry seeing the reveal
I was soooooooooo excited for the original bloodlines 2, mostly because of Brian Mitsoda and I was upset when he was fired but I thought I'd give it a shot anyways. Now not even that can happen. It feels like a terrible prank where someone hands you a beatiful gemstone and then snatches it away and hands you charcoal instead
Prank is putting it lightly.. this more like a serial killer wearing the out heroes face.. then sitting us down just to brutally murder them in front of our own eyes. And the worst part is we can't do anything but just watch it happen..
That reveal was it's funeral and we all attended it.
True crime is the fact we are robbed of a real bloodlines sequel after sooo many years and being sold this pretender ;(
I loved Bloodlines so much.... But this "moneysteal demo game where RPG part is lost" they revealed has no deep... no soul... SAD that I waited for 20 years and now I have nothing to be waiting for...
It is too early to really say if it will be good or bad. I had given up hope for this game before yesterday, But I do think the chinese room could potentially be a good pick for this. They seem passionate enough and at the very least I could see them making a very atmospheric game. This will be their first RPG, and that is potentially worrying. But there is a first for everything. And they have hired some RPG vets to help them as well.
The trailer was... fine. Nothing too exciting, but also nothing offensive about it. It was a very basic vampire power showcase, and meeting the new devs. And that is fine for a re reveal. Fresh start and all. They cant spill all the beans just yet. They want to leave something to show for the next year. Would be an awful idea to just give us everything now, and then nothing else for months you know.
This game is a big "we'll see" for now as far as I am concerned. I am very much willing to give them a chance. My biggest worry currently is publisher meddling. My expectations are pretty low. We dont get too many good vampire games, so if the atmosphere is there and it is not overly broken and at least kinda fun I will be satisfied. But if they can, I do hope it will at least somewhat live up to the first game.
I think this is the correct take for now. The Chinese room is a talented developer and the people on the team do have genuine passion for this game. The creative director worked on fable which gives me a lot of cautious optimism and in general it is just too early to tell what will come of the game for better or worse. They’re supposed to show off gameplay next January. I’ll withhold judgment until then because we don’t know enough for now. From the story synopsis that they’ve released so far I do at least think they’re going in a better direction than what hardsuits story was but again. Too soon to tell much else.
Wrong. Keeping customers waiting for more than a decade IS bad. Effing bad, abysmally bad.
It's very unlikely that the Chinese Room has the same design philosophy as Black Isles Studios when it comes to developing RPGs which is probably why Paradox fired Hardsuit labs in the first place because they wanted Bloodlines 2 to be just another Werewolf The Apocalypse: Earthblood pretty much because I can consider them at this point actually worse than Bethesda knowing what they did to the Fallout series.
Is this an immersive sim or an rpg?
Good question.
I will say, solely based off the original trailers and this most recent one, it looks like a serious downgrade all-around. I'm really hoping The Chinese Room can turn this around. So far, I miss the game we could have had
I wholeheartedly agree with this . We aren’t getting a true bloodlines game unfortunately :( it will be an action game with light rpg elements is my prediction.
Yeah, that trailer did not show anything good....
Glad someone said that - I still have my Blood Moon pre-order and have been hanging in there but the trailer footage looked incredibly disappointing. The combat looked almost embarrassing but the cut scene snippets looked good.
Although I'm happy that this game isn't stuck in limbo anymore, I have no faith whatsoever that The Chinese Room have the props/pedigree to create a good VTBM RPG game. They are known for atmospheric walking simulator games so that doesn't strike me as the correct developer to handle an IP that's so well beloved as the VTM one.
Also, after the drama with Paradox firing Brian Mitsoda and everything surrounding him and his writers and pretty much this sequel being his baby and him getting fired has led me to barely have any hype for it anymore.
Based off the recent trailer it doesn't seem like the game will be an RPG at all..just an action/adventure first person game by the looks of it. But I guess they can change my mind if they can showcase some of the RPG mechanics that is has.
I think hardsuit labs wasnt removed because the game was worse off, looking at the new game which appears to be scrambled together to hit the deadline. Rather i think it was office politics that we dont know about yet, of course all speculation but the e3 demo from the hardsuit labs build looked damn near finished, again we have no idea, and alas the hardsuit labs build joins prey 2 and legacy of kain dead sun as games that almost came out that we will never experience for good or worse
The tea I heard back in 2020 was that Hardsuit wanted the game to have LGBTQIA representation and draw from lore established in VTM:B but the CEO of Paradox didn't want that and fired them.
I think I understand your sentiment. You are worried that game maybe shallow. I think its too early to judge with such a short timed clip, but I ,too, am wondering, why with such a long wait that they couldn't go little more in-depth in explaining what they are trying to accomplish.
They did not appear to even try and make a case for themselves as custodians or torch bearers of the WoD, it sounded a lot like they dont want Bloodlines 2 to disappoint Dear Esther fans so um... Looks bad
I agree with you, we didn't get any new information from the trailer and It just looks like we get to play as a pair of arms running around punching people. I am not sure why they decided to even release this trailer?
I am still hoping for a similar game as bloodlines 2 and would also like this title to be really good but I am expecting the worst at this point. They should listen to what the community is wanting in the game and show a trailer showcasing a few aspects of what the community is looking for.
They supposedly hire The Chinese Room shortly after Hardsuit Labs was fired, then proceed to keep them secret for over 3 years to likely delay the same questions we are asking now in why is a adventure focused Walking Simulator game dev being put in charge of a immersive sim RPG? Do they have the capacity to pull off a game such as Bloodlines 2 within the short time limit Paradox will likely set up for them like in the reveal trailer seems to imply with a "Fall 2024"? What's the story and interactivity like now that we're no longer a Thin Blood, but a weakened Elder risen from Torpor and likely soon to be Beckoned by their Antediluvian into some Gehenna Plot? How many clans can we play as, what sort of interactivity can we hope to find. Information that might have been brought to the table much sooner if Paradox didn't make these strange decision to obscure a dev and sow only confusion and doubt onto this project like a negative hype?
I too want Bloodlines 2 to be hopefully passable, but the choices made by this publisher don't make much sense if they actually still have faith that its a good production.
A short trailer is not nearly enough to tell whether the game will be good or bad. It’s like people are just hoping it will be bad.
Right like we barely saw anything to truly judge
I think it's just the bad taste left in ours mouths over and over again by older beloved games being brought back.
Its more so what we didn't see thats leaving people in despair because we're comparing it to the Original Trailer!
When one of the lead writers said the original game was "A white male power fantasy" and "insensitive to those with mental problems" and "didn't have enough diversity" it's a sign that they would rather slander the original title, preach politics that no one fucking asked for to the consumer, rather than actually make a good fucking game.
Looks alot like dishonored imo, we expect solid rpg game, yet we'll get an fps action-adventure it seems. The vtm bloodlines title will never reach its deserved place.
Right? And like I said in your discord, hiring an adventure game company to make an RPG of this caliber is stupid
Game was announced in 2020 which means it was in development prior to that most likely. Release late 2024 with a likely slip to 2025. After all this time, especially after we were told that hardsuit was nearly done with the game, I expected a lot more to be shown.
The main appeal to this game is its depth, like its predecessor. Its not being marketed as a massive open world game thats actually the size of seattle or anything like that. So what was so wrong with it when hardsuit was finishing it up that these relative unknowns needed a year and a half to fix?
I see the graphics have not improved; in fact, they seem to have gotten worse. The story seems to have changed. This looks like a darker version of Fallout 4 with their graphics. I wish Larian Studios was working on this game.
Bloodlines was edgy and was not safe for work (both in mature themes and actual sexual content). Unless they hired a bunch of cowboys, I think the game is going to be safe=boring.
Yes. The original had sex appeal, Interesting characters and dark atmospheric music. This game just doesn't look as appealing based off the trailers.
yeah, im treating this as a seperate VtMB title in my personal canon. it doesn't strike me as a sequel at all
I'm hoping for the best but what's turning me off is the concept. The thing I like about tabletop and video game RPGs is creating a character from scratch. The original game starts you off as a new vampire so you had to grind to get new powers, influence, etc.
If this new game starts you off as an elder, you would already have an over a 100yrs backstory and would start off OP as fuck!
I dunno... It'd be fun for five minutes but that'd get boring real fast for me.
I think the game looks great. However, this first person shit is ruining it for me. Just a personal thing, I spend 90% of these games in third person.
Yet another IP succumbs to development hell.
Am I the only one who was way more pissed to see Brian Mitsoda gone than Hardsuit? I mean I love me some Killing Floor 2, but VtM it ain't. Writing is what makes a VtM game, and they haven't even said who will be writing it.
they didn't make any of the changes from what we've seen that might have shown they actually did something other than finish the main plot.
1.) No 3rd person view which leads into several other issues. This is unacceptable. Cyberpunk tried to go down this corridor as well and still to this day people are trying to mod it back into the game when it comes to certain aspects like combat. Yes, even CDprojektRED gave us the ability to walk around the night city in 3rd person, but I'm not getting that sense in this game. Anyone who's saying it's too early to tell is in denial, it's less than a year out now, and nothing that significant is going to change in 11 months unless it's a buggy mess when implemented.
2.) Combat looks like it's going to be a series of power spams and instant takedowns. This is a 2024 game, We've come a long way since 2000, you should have various environmental weapons you can use(trash cans, car doors, hell the whole car, pipes, boxes, bottles, fighting styles to use, if you can pop claws from gangrel then go wild and show some of that, that whole super speed punches is likely a celerity attack and not a regular attack chain, by fighting style I meant things similar to what we saw in BL1, Guns, Swords, Hand to Hand, again all we saw here were 3 powers being spammed and stealth takedowns. All of this was in 1st person which proves to be the laziest form of visual direction killing the Western gaming industry in a medium that is 90% a visual medium. You can tell Western devs don't have a creative bone in their body simply through what they choose to not show in their combat. A game where you're a murderous monster who craves blood to live, and you're basically a floating head and 2 arms, yet play anime vampire in a similar world and you're just hacking and slashing, power spamming, flipping, jumping, sprinting, styling all over the place because in the East, they have this thing called imagination, say it with me now. "Imagination" in the West we have, "talking points, and copy-cat syndrome." I don't expect an Elder to be a Taekwondo expert, but I expect to be visually entertained by the design of my character and seeing it interact with the world around him/her.
3.) Empty city sim: Since you're going to be playing at night they don't even have to worry about crowded active city bs during the day, but we saw some largely empty nothing streets in that clip, which is kind of odd in Seattle, no cars, barely any lights, any people are obviously only there for you to eat or beat on. Given we saw you traveling overhead twice I'm assuming you'll be mostly roof jumping meaning even less likely to see anything that isn't dull backgrounds and gray/black skies.
No vampire vibes here. 😢
Larian studios are basically the only ones who can save this now.
Paradox should've sold the rights. The CEO is a dick, and they don't care about the story or the fans. Unless this turs out to be INCREDIBLE, I will not be playing it - and this is as someone who pre-ordered the Hardsuit Labs version back in 2018 and was greatly looking forward to playing it during the pandemic.
I have no faith in this game, I want to be proven wrong, but given Paradox's track record of their previous World of Darkness games that were released and were just awful. I just can't get on board with this. Paradox clearly does not know what they are doing. This game looks awful, and it lacks the gothic punk look and feel of the original. Paradox should just sell all the rights of the White Wolf RPGs to a company that will make World of Darkness, dark again.
The Chinese Room specializes in a form of visual novel (not adventures) and are best known for Dear Esther. Even then, this is not the same team. It's basically a new group. They've no experience to date in a game like this. What was shown doesn't look comparable to the original reveal - It looks like a significant downgrade.
Paradox's mismanagement of this project ranks among the worst I've witnessed. My fingers are crossed that the project will cross the finish line and be good. That typed, I've no faith at this point. The new reveal and, especially, the later "dev diary" don't inspire confidence. At all.
Been waiting so long for this game I have just written it off as something that will never release. Feels like it is in development hell unfortunately and while it was nice for them to drop a trailer it is very underwhelming with the combat. Let's hope it gets more polish when it officially releases.
Disappointing trailer, i was so excited for this game before Mitsoda left the game development, bloodlines is my fav rpg about vampires, its a special game to me i grew up playing it, hopefully we will get great vampire games from other developers, there is truly a lack of games about vampires in the gaming industry
At best I think we'll get a fun VTM game. I don't think it'll be anything like Bloodlines and I really wish they had been transparent over the past few years and told the community that the game they advertised before had been completely scraped. It's making it hard for me to feel anything but disappointment at what was shown.
I hear what you are saying and I share your worries. I'll add my thoughts here, for what they are worth.
The positives: 1) From what we were shown in the recent re-announcement trailer, the combat seems to be improved from Hardsuit Labs version ( although I concede that we haven't seen proper gameplay yet from The Chinese Room's version) ; 2) The thematic atmosphere has largely carried over from Hardsuit Labs version, which is not surprising considering they used a lot of their assets and level designs.
The unknowns: 1) If I remember correctly, the gameplay footage of Hardsuit Labs version was not well received but people praised the atmosphere as well as gameplay similarities with the original Bloodlines game - e.g., central hub locations with some explorable areas; interesting factions; multiple ways to complete quests; and interesting dialogue and roleplay mechanics. We do not know if The Chinese Room's version of Bloodlines 2 has done away with these core aspects of Hardsuit Labs vision of the game. My initial impression (and worry) from watching the re-announcement trailer is that TCR's vision for the game is more akin to Dishonoured, with much more linear level designs and very little social/roleplay mechanics for dialogue. The Dishonoured games are very good Action-RPGs, but they are not thematically or mechanically similar to Bloodlines. And while Bloodlines is a game from 2004, and gameplay expectations, designs and technology has improved since the first game, I think most fans of the original (including fans of Hardsuit Labs vision of the game from what was shown) would like some core returning mechanics and gameplay designs that still make it feel like a sequel to the original game - e.g., good dialogue choices, choice and consequence, interesting hub/semi-open world level design, and so on. If TCR's vision for the game is a more combat-orientated, linear action-RPG in the same vein as Dishonoured, then I wonder why even use the Bloodlines name in the title, because quite frankly people will not buy into it.
Another speculation I hold, which supports my theory that TCR's vision of Bloodlines 2 is more closely connected to the Dishonoured games than the original Bloodlines or Hardsuit Labs vision for Bloodlines 2, is that we will be playing a pre-defined character. The game's website mentions that we will play as an Elder vampire; the trailer shows a first-person perspective, but it's clear from the footage that the body is that of a woman - possibly one of the women we see in the re-announcement trailer. The game's website also references the Elder vampire as a 'she', which also supports my theory that we will be playing a pre-defined, female character, and even though we will probably be able to choose a clan (which determines what type of Disciplines and skills we get to use in combat), I don't think we will be able to 'create' our character so to speak or choose a background that affects the game from a narrative standpoint. Again, all of this points to similarities with the Dishonoured games, where it featured combat-RPG mechanics, for examples skill trees and so on which allowed us to determine our combat approaches, but the Dishonoured games, if I remember correctly, featured very few social-RPG mechanics, i.e., - dialogue choices, non-linear question designs, etc. This is another worry I have for the game, because while TCR is known for creating very good narrative games, most of them contain very linear narratives with hardly any non-linear quest design or semi-open world gameplay that are staple parts of the original Bloodlines, and what seemed to be Hardsuit Labs vision for Bloodlines 2.
I hope the gameplay reveal in January shows us more than just combat and progressing through linear levels, but rather TCR's approach to questing, explorable semi-open worlds and dialogue.
First person view fighting, i flipping hate that.
The melee combo looked stupid, activate whatever power and your guy will go throw some cheesy 80s ninja striking combo.
They need to go turn based and give us a proper TTRPG adaption. VTM Redemption is still my fave because of the epic story of a group of immortals taking place over hundreds of years.
I'm honestly gutted by the release of alpha footage for VTMB2. Hardsuit Labs was onto something great. I was so excited for its release. I was over the moon by the footage they put out while working on the title. Then Paradox fires them and puts the project in limbo for years before finally announcing TCR as the new developer.. Immediately, it became abundantly clear, this is not going to be a good game. The studio they chose is clearly not prepared to take on a title of this magnitude. One of my all time fave franchises is sullied and it just rubs me the wrong way. I feel like it's like expecting Elon Musk to actually improve Twitter. It's so obvious this wasn't thought out. Why would they ask a nobody studio to take on one of the greatest underground franchises of all time? They have no idea what they're doing. I have zero hope this is going to be anything other than an attempt to copy paste the formula from the origional and they will mess it up massively. I do not like the studio they chose. It's not personal. It's just a clearly new and unseasoned group of people who are in over their head with a title like this. Ugh, I hope I'm wrong but GD it, I bet those people didn't even play the original. I still play some of the WoD tabletop games and my first foray into the video games was Vtm: Redemption (which I still adore) I think collectively as a fan base, none of us are expecting much. Definitely not anything close to the OG and Definitely not a revival of the franchise. Paradox shot themselves in the foot and slapped every WOD fan in the face. I'm pissed.
Firing the original writer was definitely a weird move.
I'm glad hardsuit labs lost the game, I was disappointed by everything I had seen from them.
WoD seems like a cursed ip at this point.
The original Bloodlines had great voice actors too.
I don't want to feel excited or disappointed yet, this trailer didn't show anything this is just like a show and tell like "hey, we're alive, you see that things are different now, we're working on it."
But being skeptical is something I'll definitely be. World of Darkness is a very specific universe that not a lot of people can nail in the media, unfortunately. I doubt they'll come close to bloodlines.
yeah looked pretty bad. But I guess the nice thing is at release 2024 fall they still have time to change the dev team couple of times.
Looks a bit too action oriented. I like action but wheres the atmosphere and indivuality. Looks kinda like another Redfall honestly.
first person is a big no for me, I have cero immersion when a pair of floating hands cant do simple stuff like grabbing a ledge. this aliso happens in third person but at least I can see my character and not just a floating pair of hands and more than a 90° view
Hopefully you are able to switch camera angles. The first bloodlines allowed you to do so.
It doesn't look like Vampire Bloodlines to me.... My first reaction was one of disgust. It might be an interesting experience but it will not capture the nature of Vampire Bloodlines. I am a huge fan of the narration and presentation of Dear Esther, I think the studio is capable of crafting a great experience but the gameplay looks basic in every sense. Best case scenario is we get something like Dishonored but I'm not getting my hopes up.
This is a massive downgrade from hard suit labs, and that one was pretty bad
I love the first game, i think it looks great honesty my only issue is this first person view just diesnt do it for me, i think it needs a third person also. I have that view for a vampire?
At least Hardsuit Labs had passion
I'm going with my gut on this, just like I did when Hardsuit Labs had the project. It looks bland, boring. It's based on an unpopular version of the table top game. And no offense to the good people of Seattle but I can't think of a more uninteresting place to set a vampire story. They had so many better options for location: San Francisco, New Orleans, Chicago, Miami. I don't have any hope for this latest iteration of BL2.
I've sadly been saying this from the get go. The game by Troika Games was a sleep hit. The team that worked on the original Fallout 1&2. They knew what wanted to create and somehow did it on a shoestring budget. Sadly Vampire Bloodlines 2 doesn't have the same dedication to making a good game. And when or IF the game comes out. It's going to be a flop. I'm getting Duke Nukem Forever vibes for this game. (if anyone gets that reference you get a cookie 🤣)
This game is just a rush job, a last ditch hail-mary attempt to push _something_ out the door in a bid to recoup at least some losses and to probably write off the rest. That's it.
There isn't going to be some carefully crafted narrative, things are going to be stale and stilted, the gameplay is going to be basic, and the dialogue is going to be cookie-cutter. Because the point of this game at this point isn't to make anything remotely like Bloodlines, the point of this game is to be a tax write off for Paradox who have likely long given up on this game actually being good. You can tell by the significantly less fanfare and marketing it's getting.
When Bloodlines 2 was first being developed, we actually got cool stylized trailers for each of the major clans that would be playable, and there was an obvious attempt to hype people up for the game. They made a big vocal effort to get a lot of the creative talent behind the first Bloodlines back, most notably Mitsoda, and they were already advertising Early Access bonuses and planned DLCs and everything, were pushing preorders, the whole nine yards.
This? If it wasn't for the fact that I've been morbidly interested in what's going to become of this, I doubt I would have heard anything about it. They've been pretty quiet about this version of the game in comparison; no neat trailers, no strong promotions of preorder stuff or DLCs, virtual silence.
That alone should tell us one thing; Paradox themselves have no faith in this game. They're just hoping to spend as little as possible, just enough glitz and glamor to maybe get some uninformed people to buy it, and then hopefully recoup some of the losses they likely suffered from the original abortion of a product they had before.
In other words, this game is already dead and it's not even out yet. I wouldn't bother even paying attention to this, because this game is going to be so massively stripped down and basic that it'll be painful to even know that it exists.
That is interesting.
The game could be good.
I mean, let's assume that the people who were fired made an almost complete specification for the story, and let's further assume that the game design is more or less finished, then it makes sense to hire someone who developes adventure games.
Why? Because he can put the specs together in an interesting way. That means it could be a mix of adventure and roleplaying (some kind of adventure roleplaying game).
A downside could be that the game is extremely linear in terms of storyline and solvability (that's a matter of taste).
Another downside is that Paradox is known for its extensive DLCs, which might make for a solid but mediocre game at first, and will continue to evolve with new DLCs over time.
Possibly that is what your experienced gamer intuition tells you and thus you say "Hmm, I don't know if this game will be good!"
From what little i saw i wasn't blown away. Hopefully it completely surprise's us all. I loved the lore. It's some if the best rpg lore around. Taken from our own history & ancient myths.
I'm afraid that Baldur's Gate 3 won't shake up the industry for the good and be that outlier that game developers have warned us about.
So, as a student that lives in Brighton and has seen a huge amount of the development process here as well as how The Chinese Room - based in Brighton - develop their games, I wouls say this trailer showcases around 10 percent of the finished product. I absolutely believe in opinions so I won't discredit this video, however, please do wait until a games final release before making judgements on how it will play and feel and also the development team how have treated this project with immense sincerity. X
I played all of Larian's RPGs before BG3 and they weren't known for storytelling, nor for deep role-playing in their previous games (you could kill anyone for XP with minimal repercussions). But with BG3 they stepped up their game using their kinda immersive sim combat with amazing storytelling and they burned my tongue, and I'm happy for it. Chinese Room is known for games with intense dark atmosphere, maybe we will get a good game if they use that with good lore/storytelling/RP system (I hope they hired good writers).
Its trying too hard to be cyberpunk now and they're running it into the ground
Fair assessment. Hopefully lightning strikes and the stars align and my sox pop right off my feet when I start the game. Huzzah!
I'd love it to just be a show case, but I don't have any trust or hope in "Sumo Digital" or "The Chinese Room" and frankly I don't think it has much of a chance, since if the game gets turned by the looks of it into a simple room to room slog fight, then Idk, it's not the RPG experience I want from Vampire, I want the complexity and intrigue, the challenge of being able to talk my way out and avoid a fight, but if it's one fight to the next, then why bother ... there's better games to do that in and by the look if you can use every power, wheres the replay, wheres the challenge ....
We will see how it goes on the demo Jan .
This game's going to keep bouncing around until it eventually releases to mediocre acclaim.
It's a race to see which game releases first; DA:3 or Bloodlines 2.
this trailer tells us exactly 2 things:
1. they're using the assets made by hardsuit
2. marketing has shitty music taste
however a couple of things from outside the trailer, firstly the chinese room had a mass firing of their employees between their previous game and now so they're basically a new studio with a familiar name and secondly apparently instead of playing a freshly turned thin blood you now play as a recently awoken elder.
still about as excited as a wet towel mostly due to how the recent table top edition has been going.
Welp, now it's no buy for me. Wanted a sequel for YEARS, and they just had to @#$% it up when it was already finished and ready. It was fine with what Hardsuit labs did with it.😮💨
That's probably gonna mean the role-playing aspects of the game are going to be bad if you start as an elder with an established background
@ZaklnGritch Probably a just a first person beat em up Action Adventure. With one single character.
@@DarkSamson1 I hope it's an arcade fighting game with palette swapped versions of that single character
@@ZaklnGritch i never said anything about a pre-established backstory
OMFG another first person perspective?
Hard pass. Shame.
What the prior developer showed us looked highly promising, but if they are starting from scratch with the new developer and going a different direction entirely then I'm not sure what to think... The 1st game had some development problems as well, even though it was fun, but it took the community to really fix it up... I hate to see publishers change developers so late into development, and what I'm hoping, is that the new developer just takes what was done and expands on it, fixes it up, and doesn't change it's general direction and playstyle completely... Because the development time was already long enough, and if they are totally changing the direction of the game, going with a more action adventure styled horror game... In a similar vein to what the current market is already saturated with, rather than a story rich RPG... Then I'm expecting quite a bit of negative response, as the lovers of Bloodlines 1 are going to make up a vast chunk of the initial player base for the game... And if you disappoint them, then I would expect lower scores and so forth, regardless if it's an o.k. game in the genre, but not a real sequel...
COMBAT look fun, but what about weapons and shit, and RPG ?
Yeah Im pretty much done with any expectations with this game.
we live in an age where; we have to takes these things at face value. we can't expect the games of the past anymore, and if you play as a guy and they keep referring to you as a chick, that will be normal.
I am not happy with the owner of Bloodlines they have never made a Top Tier Game Like Elden Ring , Hogwarts or even a game close to a True RPG , after Playing BG3 , Elden Ring , Hogwarts and a few other games i consider AAA game i don't see this developer after only getting the game for 4 years or 5 years can make a Real innovative game For the Bloodlines 2 world , I want a bigger developer or let say a pure of heart PC developer to Work and make Bloodlines 2 and Future Projects . I have Hope but after the only 10 next gen games that have come out in past 15 years i dont feel super hopeful due to the weak development in games now adays .
When they fired Brian Mitsoda, my interest in this game fell by 90%. The combat looks pretty dumb and over the top, I bet we can expect some Marvel superhero action bullshit instead of a proper vampire game with a good story. Shame what greed does to good things.
I'm not really sure what you expected to be honest. This trailer represented a reset for the project. Consider it as Trailer 1 for Bloodlines 2 and it's real intention was to, I imagine, attract *new* people to it for a quick 5 minute video. I don't think it's possible to light the world on fire in that amount of time (unless you're Billy Joel, but then again you'd be denying you even started it). And as far as trailers go; it would be a horrible idea to demonstrate social aspects and serious rpg elements I think in a 5 minute attention grabbing trailer, especially for the first trailer. That sort of thing would be reserved, I'd imagine, for the January 2024 gameplay demonstration they've teased.
As to the graphics etc, I think they're workable. It's clear that they are re-using a lot of assets that Hardsuit made (which makes sense and would cut down on development time). Unless they do extensive remodelling and/or move to something like Unreal 5, I don't expect them to make it the best visual fidelity, and I think it's clear from some shots that they're going for atmosphere (i.e., that mansion thing with the bodies on the floor) rather than sheer raw spectacle. I think that's probably more a function of making use of hardsuit's efforts than anything else.
I get that what was shown was disappointing though; but only in terms of the timeline. When they announced back in June? that we'd be seeing more stuff in September, I'm not going to lie, I expected more than just a 5 minute trailer. I was thinking we'd get the 'gameplay privew' that they are now promising for January but that's my own impatience. Afterall, the whole hype cycle needs to restart now; who knows what they've thrown out from the previous storybeats. At the same time they announced this trailer they announced that they'll sequentially show off what clans we can play as, so there's a strong possibility that that's changed too (I imagine the staples will remain like Toreador, Brujah etc)
Background was added by the plus patch
The premise of the game sounded really good but it sounds like they completely abandoned the previous storyline about a thin blood and have started over from scratch. I'm really curious about the other bloodlines 2. also why did they get fired?
And, why not? We all have been forced to play the newbie, the janitor, and the lackey in a hundred purchased RPG's already.
I might actually play Bloodlines again, the first one, from 2004.
Before this one is even playable they need to do something that overshadows their bad, detrimental choice of ego perspective. Something that makes up for it is needed.
If not, just spill it down the toilet, I don't need it.
Damn, you guys actually *want* this game to fail for some reason. I’m a very skeptic person but the doomsaying around here is genuinely baffling. This shit looks substantially better than what hardsuit was working on.
With all thr shake up from development, just makes me doubt the quality of this. Too many cooks in the kitchen so to say. Whichcis sad bevause we really dont have much vampire or games like this with an interesting lore and such
The are gonna give us an elder, an antediluvian I quess and then fuck up the story? Current year sensibilities don't mesh well with World of Darkness either. Rip WoD. Back to Bloodlines. Still a good game at least.
Are vampire games cursed? I was so excited by wod mmo but it turned out to be vaporware after much waiting. This one im not optimistic for.
This poor game keeps getting tossed around. I just don't get it. I absolutely love Vampire Bloodlines!
I had no hope for the game once I heard it's based off of v5 system
Agree, why delay something and show just different footage while you could have released one version/story 2/3 years ago, and get another story/setup.. end of next year? so in 2025.. from a different developer.. stupid management as usual.. that's Cain's curse..
It's not wrong to feel disappointed in Paradox for their actions. I certainly am.
The problem is, this project sat in the limbo of development purgatory for 4 years. It was announced in 2019 btw. Then a global pandemic and the Hardsuit debacle occurred. So how much new content can we reasonably expect them to show us when the project has been stalled and only recently rebooted? Seems like an unrealistic judgement to make.
Let's also remember that other studios have been in the position of being unknown. Obsidian Entertainment while they had some Black Isle Talent, were once complete unknowns, and went from rejection to rejection, but then they made KOTOR2, New Vegas and Mask of the Betrayer, three of the best regarded RPG's ever. So experience and street cred needs to be obtained somewhere.
I don't know if the project will be good. Only time will tell. I will say that if the Amnesia series is the standard they are holding themselves to, that was an extremely good horror IP, and horror may be what Paradox is emphasising, considering the VtM livestreams all tout themselves as "horror stories".
But at the end of the day, who can say what will occur?
Paradox abused it for a powerplay, thereby proving that they couldn't care less about customers. They need, what they will never get, I know.
@@a.m.pietroschek1972 fair enough.
Maybe they can land the atmosphere and it's hard to judge the combat until you actually play it.
The Trailer looks and Feels Worse then the Original Trailer back in 2017!
I'll reserve my judgement until I see some actual gameplay, and not prepared stuff for a teaser trailer. Like ACTUAL gameplay, with a UI and someone calling out their actions to signify that this is actually someone with a controller playing a beta or even alpha version of the game.
I have the same opinion. And I really want to be wrong.
The whole event was weird ...
First we god some tabletop roleplay ... probably to heat things up ... but instead of anything interesting, we got bunch of people speculating about chewing gums in some alley ... i dunno who thought this would be compelling, but i seem to be imune. :-/
Then dude in Batman shirt claims that character he just played is his "favourite character to write and play" ... even tho we (unless i msstaken them, i wasnted to rewatch it, but was unable to find it anywhere) allready know that character, Samuel the Nosferatu, from HSL gameplay trailer ... meaning it was written by team of Brian Mitsoda. O_o
Then we are kept in the dark so long, it becomes almost iritating and painful to watch, bcs everyone is strictly refusing to say "Bloodlines 2" and keep only reffering it as "Vampire the Masquerade game" ... its worth mentioning that it was allready officialy confirmed on Discord ... so im not really sure what was the point.
We also have to watch some Chineese Room promo, in wich (im willing to bet) nobody was interested ... where till everyone are strictly avoiding the name of title ...
THEN AND ONLY THEN ... we FINALY get trailer we were waiting for ... and yes, its pretty meh ... to be perfectly honest, some scenes looked to me exactly the same as they did in HSL video two years ago ... ony with more detailed models.
And as cherry on the top, we are encouraget to "go check Bloodlines 2 website" ... where at that time was nothing, except July article. -_-
Sumarized over and over ... they sucesfully managed to kill any exitement i had for this reveal, and i didnt have much left to begin with. 😕
Next day, Bloodlines 2 website was finaly updated (or some time during the night, dunno ofc.) ...
- We can read there that during rest of this year they will be releasing playable clans ... so, logicaly one would presume there was some changes, right? Will we get some additions, or will we loose? Nobody knows so far.
- We find out that we will be playing as Elder Vampire ... so this whole Thinblood thing was scratched out aswell.
- And on Chineese Room website, we can read (and i quote): "For the first time in a Vampire: The Masquerade video game, players will take on the role of an elder vampire." ... so as it seems Swansong didnt happen in their timeline yet. O_o
I dunno ...
I wanted to be exited, i wanted to be happy, i waned to hop in (see what i did there?) that hype taxi with cain behind wheel and feel like i did four years ago ... but this show raised so many red flags, i wouldnt be surprised at all if initial sales would be just as shitty, as they were with VtM:Bloodlines.
I am keeping my exceptions for this and the next dragon age VERY low. Both projects have has crap project direction and been in dev hell. I would love to be surprised cause both franchises deserve much much better than I am seeing them get.
I highly recommend you watch "Why I'm not worried about Dragon Age 4 (DAO edition)" by Mark Darrah who worked on all the Dragon Age games.
In the video he explains that Origins basically went through a similar phase as Dragon Age 4 and that key leadership changes are common in the industry.
@@theobell2002 for every 1 example of a winner there is 100 more examples of failure. This applies to many things such as start up companies in tech and so on. So yes, a game can be in dev hell and despite that turn out good. BUT that does not mean it could not have been game changing great if all that wasted time was started day one in the right direction.
Example: I have spent 4 months building something to throw it away cause it was poop to then spend the remaining budget and time of two months to delivery something that is good within those two months. Now lets the say all 6 months was spent on the correct item and after the first 2 months was spent making it the remaining 4 was spent on QA and additive features.
@@theobell2002 and dragon age origins isnt very good, its average at best, which only proves his point
@@nuhrii3449 It's hailed as an RPG masterpiece by many. It was certainly a revolutionary title considering it was one of the first cinematic roleplaying games. This is why I didn't find BG3 that groundbreaking. BG3 is just what Origins did back in 2009. 🤷
@@Trace153 My point is this, having hiccups or changes to leadership does not mean a game is in "dev hell". There's been no evidence whatsoever that Dreadwolf is stuck in development hell. As far as we know, the game has reached alpha stage a year ago and it's only been moving closer to completion.
I think that your approach to the game is correct; let's wait and see, but be prepared for an average game is appropriate.
True going on 4 years waiting still they booped it back another year again and again
I hope this game can be good, but it’s been stuck in development hell, looks like, and I have no faith it’ll turn out well.