Uboat commanders were trained to estimate AOB by eye and how to count decks, use features like doors, etc. to estimate vertical real heights, and so on to try to compute real heights for calculations. Mast heights were not a favorite reference choice because they were easy to modify (and they did, painting the top x feet gray or adding extra bits on on the chance it would throw off calculations). Really having a book with every ship of the world with accurate and up to date dimensions and pictures over every single cargo ship they might come across was impractical, at least at the uboat level. With a wooden ship model on a turn table and lots of time to practice they could usually get it within 10 degrees or less. The AOB setting is for your current periscope look angle. The idea is the target moves in straight line and while you track it with a slewing periscope at different angles the target will naturally vary in AOB. That's why at 1:44:00 everything was wrong because you entered the correct AOB with the periscope looking fully the wrong direction and then moved the periscope onto target causing the AOB to move in a corresponding manner.
Would be fun to see a series in this similar to the Cold Waters one, with the story driven intros and fun cinematics and narrations. That's the series I found you through, loved it to bits. Following the Trafalgar crew was fun.
Didn't think I'd enjoy watching a submarine slowly traveling about and not doing much, but I was wrong! Great video, very much enjoyed it. This game looks great.
42:44 and the area: IRL, given you're already running the diesels at optimal speeds, you can't gain energy by switching off the diesels and using electrics, then using the diesels to recharge the batteries. The law of conservation of energy prohibits this. You _have_ to put more energy into the batteries than you get out (RL it's pretty significantly more) so it's taking more diesel to charge them than you save from using them. In the game, however, I have no idea. The laws of physics don't strictly apply to video game logic.
While true on that principle it can be the case that the inefficiency of direct diesel drive to water can be more than the losses from double converting. The diesel might be most efficient at some load or RPM while the propeller, hull form might be more efficient at another.
@@Maeyanie You're right in that due to the fact that the boat is using a fixed pitch prop, the reduction gearing ratio and various dimensions of the propeller are optimized for a given engine RPM and sea speed. The efficiency of a marine propulsion system (as far as power delivered) can largely be summed up with two curves, the propeller curve and the engine curve. Because of the laughter of thirsting gods, these curves are inverse of one another and roughly cubic, thus the prop(s) is designed and geared such that the power delivery (force imparted by the propeller to the water) is maximized for the most efficient speed regime of the given engine, which for diesels is normally about 75-85% engine load. at every other speed you are either using disproportionately (it's a cubic relationship) more fuel for a minimal speed increase, or your engine is running underloaded because the prop is delivering drastically less power. A prop spinning at low rpm is a lot like a car with slipping tires on ice, the wheel speed is high, but the engine isn't actually loading up because the tires aren't gripping, the prop is not 'biting' into the water efficiently, and thus the engines don't take up load. The end result can be ballparked by the cube of speed being proportional to the fuel consumption (or power, as you like). For example a type IIA U-boat has a 690 SHP plant with a maximum sea speed of 13 kts, thus reducing speed to 10 kts would reduce power consumption to less than half of that at full power, or around 320 SHP. That said, the plant plant, prop and hull form are all designed around a singular service speed. Anything in excess of that is wasteful (but sometimes tactically required) and anything significantly under that is just going slower and increasing fouling on the combustion components of your diesels. Modern merchant shipping is running into issues because many older vessels, designed for higher sea speeds are being run under their design speed for prolonged periods because of emissions regulations in certain areas, which necessitates retrofits like auxiliary blowers, as the turbochargers were not designed to be run at low load for so long and don't deliver enough air for complete combustion and get fouled quicker.
@@nomad8723 Thinking about it, the max speed on the electric motors is significantly lower... so they're probably losing a lot of efficiency due to being in the wrong place on the prop RPM curve too, on top of battery charge/discharge losses.
@@Maeyanie Well they are losing performance, not necessarily efficiency as they lack the horsepower to drive the prop at the design speed, so while per horsepower you're not losing that much energy (electric motors and generators, even old ones, are >90% efficient in converting electrical power to shaft power), you are losing proportionally much more speed. @Frederf3227 was correct in that if you ran the engines at design speed as propulsion and charged the batteries, you basically store that efficiency into the batteries, so it could be possible that for certain low speeds it might actually be more efficient to go, say, slow ahead on battery if you charged them while the diesel was running at full rated load, but it certainly would not be the case at higher speeds, as the variance in fuel efficiency over the operating range of a diesel is normally not more than 5-10%, and generators are normally about 90-95% efficient (not including losses due to inductive load), so it'd probably come out in the wash anyway. That isn't even mentioning the effect sea state and current has on such a small vessel. If you're getting tossed around in the North Sea with your motors surging and overspeeding because the prop is out of the water, your efficiency and speed made good is going to be trash. All the figures you find on spec sheets are referring to performance during sea trials with a clean hull, factory new and ideal weather. I always like to bring up the T2 tankers which were oil fired turbo-electric steam plants to omit the reduction gear sets, so that the big gear manufacturers could make sets for warships (also why the Liberties were triple expansion, they could be direct drive). They had massive DC motors which were controlled by old school knife switches to cut in and out certain windings/poles on the motor to control speed, but the motor was a larger diameter than that entire U-boat. However, the biggest limiting factor was (and still is) the weight and volume of the batteries. One can daisychain 12v lead acids until the cows come home and have as many volts and amp hours as you want, but they will sink your boat, they simply do not have enough energy density with respect to mass or volume. Another issue back then was the lack of solid state rectifiers, so they had to either have it all be DC or (like on the T2s IIRC) have Motor-generator sets which is an AC motor that drives a DC generator, as silly as that sounds. They were pretty common for windlasses, winches, and even welding as the speed of DC motors is much easier (and cheaper) to control, so you'd have an AC generator making your ship service power (normally 460-480V 3 phase) powering an AC motor, driving a DC generator to make whatever DC voltage you needed.
Oh man I remember teaching myself math and navigation in SH3 with a big realism mod. It was years ago and I don’t remember any of the technical stuff But k still remember the time I put up my periscope to see a warship nearly on top of me, when I dove and successfully killed it with an aft torpedo (those ones I found much harder to use) So fun, those campaigns I played
Really enjoying this, you sim videos are always great, hope you do more.:) I've had this for a long time, so hopefully this will entice me more to start learning it.
Phunny phact: you could use diesel motors in conjunction or instead of batteries underwater and/or buttoned up at surface because there was no mechanical limiter. The only limiting factor was your crew's resistance to exhaust fumes which mainly ties to a policy decision of preferring to not suffocate your crew if possible, but if you were in a hurry to dive down, or to surface, you could use them for a bit of a time especially if there was no enemy on sight and the idea was for you to ventilate the whole boat for a time.
@ThePizzaGoblin U-boats established a fearsome reputation, but peaked quickly in effectiveness. The Allies adapted fast, and by the end of the war, were destroying U-boats faster than Germany could build them.
1:15:00 If you set the Radioman's Role to Technician he'll use the radio on the surface and hydrophone at periscope and below. Radio Operator uses radio on the surface and at periscope depth and then hydrophone below that. It's set up that way because there ARE times you'll want to use the radio while submerged.
That was a great stream. With one of the funniest moments I have seen in yonks. If a sub ran out of torps on stationary boat, is it best to inform the merchant crew tha8t they are welcome to reboard the vessel and leave, or just slink away in shame?
The Technician Officer is set up to be the primary Hydrophone operator by default, not the Radio Officer. The idea is you have two Com officers later (mainly on the second patrol) so you don't have to worry about that anymore.
Games like this always remind me of my time playing Flames of War as the Germans. It was a win win situation. Either I won the game, or the Nazis lost! There's no bad outcome! Always love your rambling Dave, you make slow work days go by faster.
Hi Dave, off topic sure. But how is tour word bearers army? any new additions , would like to see. Also your story time you did for them a few years back was fantastic , you should consider doing more of that i was top tier
What kind of electric motors were used in those WW2 subs? They were less noisy than diesels for sure but electric motors can be quite loud as well. I guess in sub silent running would be more of priority than in locomotive. As for fuel usage, more energy transormations always results in more waste. Elementary law of physics. Well, as someone said in chat, if combustion engine runs in less efficient speed while driving shaft directly, it would be an issue, but if that was a case, why not use turboelectric drive all the time as default and skip gearing/shaft lenght? Several years in early access and there is no cards minigame?! Outrageous!
To answer the efficiency question about why not use a turbo-electric drive, the answer is the same issue as the German tanks that had them. It was theoretically more efficient, but it's reliability (something that is the main priority for any ocean going vessel) was suspect. The last thing you want as any ship is to lose the ability to move, and the efficiency benefit is mild considering that ships are better able to just carry extra fuel to counter act it.
@@skeeterd5150 There are other boats, are there not? There's other starting points, so I'd hazard a guess that they don't make you go through the entire war in a type 2.
@@the6ofdiamonds Not if you don't want to. They make upgrading to a type 2D and later the family of type 7s fairly easy. It sounds like it would be a nightmare to do a type 2 later in the war, with the lack of upgrades paired with Allied weapon developments, but nothing stops you. Also, other starts have you start in a type 7 the type 2 is just new for the release and is considered a noob trap because it is actually the hard mode to the type 7.
To be honest, you need a submarine captains hat.
Seconded
I don't think I deserve one though after that
Uboat commanders were trained to estimate AOB by eye and how to count decks, use features like doors, etc. to estimate vertical real heights, and so on to try to compute real heights for calculations. Mast heights were not a favorite reference choice because they were easy to modify (and they did, painting the top x feet gray or adding extra bits on on the chance it would throw off calculations). Really having a book with every ship of the world with accurate and up to date dimensions and pictures over every single cargo ship they might come across was impractical, at least at the uboat level. With a wooden ship model on a turn table and lots of time to practice they could usually get it within 10 degrees or less.
The AOB setting is for your current periscope look angle. The idea is the target moves in straight line and while you track it with a slewing periscope at different angles the target will naturally vary in AOB. That's why at 1:44:00 everything was wrong because you entered the correct AOB with the periscope looking fully the wrong direction and then moved the periscope onto target causing the AOB to move in a corresponding manner.
Picturing the seasoned merchant captain in a lifeboat just silently judging the UBoat trying and failing to sink his ship.
Would be fun to see a series in this similar to the Cold Waters one, with the story driven intros and fun cinematics and narrations. That's the series I found you through, loved it to bits. Following the Trafalgar crew was fun.
Really hope to see more of this. Thanks for uploading
Didn't think I'd enjoy watching a submarine slowly traveling about and not doing much, but I was wrong! Great video, very much enjoyed it. This game looks great.
You *almost* made a canadian lumberjack for a captain.
42:44 and the area: IRL, given you're already running the diesels at optimal speeds, you can't gain energy by switching off the diesels and using electrics, then using the diesels to recharge the batteries. The law of conservation of energy prohibits this. You _have_ to put more energy into the batteries than you get out (RL it's pretty significantly more) so it's taking more diesel to charge them than you save from using them.
In the game, however, I have no idea. The laws of physics don't strictly apply to video game logic.
While true on that principle it can be the case that the inefficiency of direct diesel drive to water can be more than the losses from double converting. The diesel might be most efficient at some load or RPM while the propeller, hull form might be more efficient at another.
True, but Dave was operating at the most fuel efficient speed setting, so it shouldn't be unless some u-boat designer was really bad at his job.
@@Maeyanie You're right in that due to the fact that the boat is using a fixed pitch prop, the reduction gearing ratio and various dimensions of the propeller are optimized for a given engine RPM and sea speed. The efficiency of a marine propulsion system (as far as power delivered) can largely be summed up with two curves, the propeller curve and the engine curve. Because of the laughter of thirsting gods, these curves are inverse of one another and roughly cubic, thus the prop(s) is designed and geared such that the power delivery (force imparted by the propeller to the water) is maximized for the most efficient speed regime of the given engine, which for diesels is normally about 75-85% engine load. at every other speed you are either using disproportionately (it's a cubic relationship) more fuel for a minimal speed increase, or your engine is running underloaded because the prop is delivering drastically less power. A prop spinning at low rpm is a lot like a car with slipping tires on ice, the wheel speed is high, but the engine isn't actually loading up because the tires aren't gripping, the prop is not 'biting' into the water efficiently, and thus the engines don't take up load. The end result can be ballparked by the cube of speed being proportional to the fuel consumption (or power, as you like). For example a type IIA U-boat has a 690 SHP plant with a maximum sea speed of 13 kts, thus reducing speed to 10 kts would reduce power consumption to less than half of that at full power, or around 320 SHP. That said, the plant plant, prop and hull form are all designed around a singular service speed. Anything in excess of that is wasteful (but sometimes tactically required) and anything significantly under that is just going slower and increasing fouling on the combustion components of your diesels. Modern merchant shipping is running into issues because many older vessels, designed for higher sea speeds are being run under their design speed for prolonged periods because of emissions regulations in certain areas, which necessitates retrofits like auxiliary blowers, as the turbochargers were not designed to be run at low load for so long and don't deliver enough air for complete combustion and get fouled quicker.
@@nomad8723 Thinking about it, the max speed on the electric motors is significantly lower... so they're probably losing a lot of efficiency due to being in the wrong place on the prop RPM curve too, on top of battery charge/discharge losses.
@@Maeyanie Well they are losing performance, not necessarily efficiency as they lack the horsepower to drive the prop at the design speed, so while per horsepower you're not losing that much energy (electric motors and generators, even old ones, are >90% efficient in converting electrical power to shaft power), you are losing proportionally much more speed. @Frederf3227 was correct in that if you ran the engines at design speed as propulsion and charged the batteries, you basically store that efficiency into the batteries, so it could be possible that for certain low speeds it might actually be more efficient to go, say, slow ahead on battery if you charged them while the diesel was running at full rated load, but it certainly would not be the case at higher speeds, as the variance in fuel efficiency over the operating range of a diesel is normally not more than 5-10%, and generators are normally about 90-95% efficient (not including losses due to inductive load), so it'd probably come out in the wash anyway. That isn't even mentioning the effect sea state and current has on such a small vessel. If you're getting tossed around in the North Sea with your motors surging and overspeeding because the prop is out of the water, your efficiency and speed made good is going to be trash. All the figures you find on spec sheets are referring to performance during sea trials with a clean hull, factory new and ideal weather.
I always like to bring up the T2 tankers which were oil fired turbo-electric steam plants to omit the reduction gear sets, so that the big gear manufacturers could make sets for warships (also why the Liberties were triple expansion, they could be direct drive). They had massive DC motors which were controlled by old school knife switches to cut in and out certain windings/poles on the motor to control speed, but the motor was a larger diameter than that entire U-boat. However, the biggest limiting factor was (and still is) the weight and volume of the batteries. One can daisychain 12v lead acids until the cows come home and have as many volts and amp hours as you want, but they will sink your boat, they simply do not have enough energy density with respect to mass or volume. Another issue back then was the lack of solid state rectifiers, so they had to either have it all be DC or (like on the T2s IIRC) have Motor-generator sets which is an AC motor that drives a DC generator, as silly as that sounds. They were pretty common for windlasses, winches, and even welding as the speed of DC motors is much easier (and cheaper) to control, so you'd have an AC generator making your ship service power (normally 460-480V 3 phase) powering an AC motor, driving a DC generator to make whatever DC voltage you needed.
Hopefully, there will be a let's play of this in the future.
Oh man I remember teaching myself math and navigation in SH3 with a big realism mod.
It was years ago and I don’t remember any of the technical stuff
But k still remember the time I put up my periscope to see a warship nearly on top of me, when I dove and successfully killed it with an aft torpedo (those ones I found much harder to use)
So fun, those campaigns I played
Really enjoying this, you sim videos are always great, hope you do more.:)
I've had this for a long time, so hopefully this will entice me more to start learning it.
Phunny phact: you could use diesel motors in conjunction or instead of batteries underwater and/or buttoned up at surface because there was no mechanical limiter. The only limiting factor was your crew's resistance to exhaust fumes which mainly ties to a policy decision of preferring to not suffocate your crew if possible, but if you were in a hurry to dive down, or to surface, you could use them for a bit of a time especially if there was no enemy on sight and the idea was for you to ventilate the whole boat for a time.
Good old Jingles, living up to the 75% casualty rate of german submariners.
God, is that an accurate number?
@ThePizzaGoblin U-boats established a fearsome reputation, but peaked quickly in effectiveness. The Allies adapted fast, and by the end of the war, were destroying U-boats faster than Germany could build them.
Just leaving a comment to show my support & hopeful for a series on this game. All the best 🌊 o7
Appreciate it. Would love to do a series with either this, SH3 or SH4 some day, but... uh... need to iron out my skill issues first apparently
1:15:00 If you set the Radioman's Role to Technician he'll use the radio on the surface and hydrophone at periscope and below. Radio Operator uses radio on the surface and at periscope depth and then hydrophone below that. It's set up that way because there ARE times you'll want to use the radio while submerged.
I've been to Wilhelmshaven. Didn't see much of it, but the resident engineers and Naval representatives were all great fun to work with.
That was a great stream. With one of the funniest moments I have seen in yonks. If a sub ran out of torps on stationary boat, is it best to inform the merchant crew tha8t they are welcome to reboard the vessel and leave, or just slink away in shame?
The Technician Officer is set up to be the primary Hydrophone operator by default, not the Radio Officer. The idea is you have two Com officers later (mainly on the second patrol) so you don't have to worry about that anymore.
I've been so excited for this video since you mentioned it the other day.
Games like this always remind me of my time playing Flames of War as the Germans. It was a win win situation. Either I won the game, or the Nazis lost! There's no bad outcome! Always love your rambling Dave, you make slow work days go by faster.
14m - you were over the Dogger Bank!
Now this will be good!
Loved this! Cool game, i dont know alot about submarine warfare. Hope you’ll play this or silent hunter on the channel !
You are my favourite Sub man!
Hi Dave, off topic sure. But how is tour word bearers army? any new additions , would like to see. Also your story time you did for them a few years back was fantastic , you should consider doing more of that i was top tier
Not yet kameraden! Not yet!
What kind of electric motors were used in those WW2 subs? They were less noisy than diesels for sure but electric motors can be quite loud as well. I guess in sub silent running would be more of priority than in locomotive. As for fuel usage, more energy transormations always results in more waste. Elementary law of physics. Well, as someone said in chat, if combustion engine runs in less efficient speed while driving shaft directly, it would be an issue, but if that was a case, why not use turboelectric drive all the time as default and skip gearing/shaft lenght?
Several years in early access and there is no cards minigame?! Outrageous!
To answer the efficiency question about why not use a turbo-electric drive, the answer is the same issue as the German tanks that had them.
It was theoretically more efficient, but it's reliability (something that is the main priority for any ocean going vessel) was suspect. The last thing you want as any ship is to lose the ability to move, and the efficiency benefit is mild considering that ships are better able to just carry extra fuel to counter act it.
Captain Seattle sets sail.
Can you change the emblem on the boat ? Seems like a fun game, I’ll look into it 😊
Since I don't use X/Twitter anymore, I just wanna know if there's any chance you'll do an LP of Fallout London?
I can't get fhe mod to work without crashing so no.
More please. I like long videos like this. 😊❤😊
great, thanks. trying to get a grip on this game
Know what I'm watching today
I bought this game because of this video and now I have nearly 30 hours in it lol.
I've been thoroughly enjoying the game, to my surprise
When did this Cannuk defect to Germany?
Please help me about U-boat gameplay
I wonder if this game would be mean enough to send you off to the US as part of that whole thing.
Not in a type 2
@@skeeterd5150 There are other boats, are there not? There's other starting points, so I'd hazard a guess that they don't make you go through the entire war in a type 2.
@@the6ofdiamonds Not if you don't want to. They make upgrading to a type 2D and later the family of type 7s fairly easy. It sounds like it would be a nightmare to do a type 2 later in the war, with the lack of upgrades paired with Allied weapon developments, but nothing stops you. Also, other starts have you start in a type 7 the type 2 is just new for the release and is considered a noob trap because it is actually the hard mode to the type 7.
6:00 A German-Canadian U-Boat Captain right there Eh?
Gonzalez Paul Martin Anthony Hall Jessica
1:20:23 I saw Hartlepool port for a second there. I was not expecting my home town to be featured in this game lol