All the negative comments here do not get the point he is making. Don’t ditch the 2.4 band as a whole. Make a seperate 2.4 network for smart lightbulbs and IoT crap and make a seperate 5 GHz band for advanced devices. Don’t MIX the 2.4 and 5 GHz bands! 👍🏼
I simplify it a different way. My primary home SSID is Tri-band, and my clients are smart enough to favor higher frequencies when possible (plus some router-forced band steering). My IoT SSID forces WPA2 which, as mentioned in the video, automatically excludes the 6GHz band. Some IoT devices (Echo devices, Ring doorbells) are dual-band and putting them on 5GHz improves throughput if not in an area of fringe coverage. As a bonus, it may also be less prone to jamming by thieves - something worth noting for people who use cheap Wi-Fi IP Cameras and alarm bits stuck on 2.4GHz only. At my place of work where a warehouse is site-surveyed and AP density supports it, production WLANs are always 5GHz only (or 5+6 with coverage designed for 5), and due to AP density, only 20MHz channels.
If there were 10 down votes, I might agree, but when a video gets half the down votes as it does upvotes, rest assured it's not that people "do not get the point he is making."
@@dazzer_ I just listen to what Paul is explaining in this video. If people just see the thumbnail and title and don’t hear the complete story, that’s not my problem. Sorry.
I can't use 5gig on my toilet or in my bed because of the walls, and I don't need the bandwidth bad enough to add more transmitters in my small apartment
You are generalising... 2.4 is great if you want to have more stable connection. Most of the time your device does not need the speeds of 5G... So you are better off using 2.4.... Your advice is very narrow sighted, I might call it terrible.
Certified wireless network expert lays out logical and experience-driven reasoning and TH-cam comment section shits the bed. Typical. You people can't factually refute a single thing he said in the video, period. Rather than having an open mind and considering the perspective of an expert on the subject, you instead inject subjective ad hominem attacks. Consider listening and thinking, you'll be better off.
I was thinking about this. I've got a small house, three wired access points (carefully distributed channels), but very thick walls, so some devices drop the 5 GHz connection all the time. So no, I'm not sure it's that simple.
Use it! 2.4GHz network for slow devices such as ESP8266, ESP32, Shelly, Tuya, Sonoff and others. 2.4 GHz is also good for peripheral areas such as in the garden or garage. 5 GHz network such as laptop, tablet, mobile and so on. LAN for stationary devices such as PC, TV, DVD player and so on.
5GHz is pretty useless without expensive APs. plural. With 2.4GHz I can cover the entire apartment and also the porch with one AP. Speed and latency don't matter at all for WiFi since it's just phones and other low-priority devices. Don't use WiFi for computers or anything critical.
mate you don't understand a word you're talking about do you? 2.4 for range and though obstructive terrain like walls. 5 for close range point of view 6 for very close range, point of view 2,4 is way more reliable than 5, simply due to how the waves can penetrate surfaces
I don't understand why every Wi-Fi manufacturer advertises band steering as the best thing since sliced bread when it always makes the absolute worst decisions on what bands to use. Most clients are terrible at picking the right channels and for some reason they love to pick the 2.4Ghz band when the 5Ghz band is perfectly usable, even if the 2.4Ghz band is unusable. Thanks for confirming something I already suspected.
Disable 2.4GHz, so I get a spotty coverage or just use band steering so it transparently switches between the two bands when needed? Band steering was invented ages ago and every router from the last ~10 years has it. If I'm in a spot with bad coverage, I'll have a slower (50-100mbps) but stable connection and when I move out of it - I'm back on 5GHz with 600+ (5GHz AC). YT "tech gurus" are really bottom of the barrel these days...
Band steering or simply 2 SSIDs one for 2.4 and one for 5GHz, easy peasy. I like and prefer to be on the wifi when I'm in the garage or out in the yard. 5GHz doesn't always cut it.
Add to that, multi-AP environments w/ DFS enabled for mobile clients can be quite bothersome since the device must passively listen for DFS beacons instead of actively probing when building a roam table. The net result for a fast moving device (i.e. a warehouse piece of PIT traveling between isles) is a less-than-ideal experience - especially when coupled with dumb supplicants that only judge signal strength for classifying the best candidate. This all assumes that 802.11k isn't universally supported (because it's not). Some companies that also cheap out on client devices also quickly learn the hard way when the vendor outright disables DFS support entirely and you get artificial dead spots in your building as a result.
I have a large house multiple floors and living room, single ssid on 2.4ghz is on all the ap’s then ap/area specific ssid on 5ghz. Essentially stuff that moves around such as phones use the common 2.4 ssid(we don’t care about the less throughput) and stuff that doesn’t move such as tv streaming boxes are set to use the closest area specific 5ghz ap/ssid
Or, you know, use 40Mhz channels in the 2.4Ghz band. Channels 1 and 11 if you live in the USoA, CA, MX and the handfull of other countries that only go up to 11, and use channels 1 and 13 only if you live in the rest of the world, again, with 40Mhz channeld width instead of 20Hz channel widith Just saying. PS: I live in venezuela, we build our walls with red/clay hollow blocks, not gypsyum, so 5Ghz only works pretty much on the room where the AP is located. My for 2.4Ghz system is set up as 1-11-1 40Mhz width along the leght of my flat.
Using 40MHz on 2.4GHz means (edited) 1+5 or 11+7 in our FCC use-case. Either way, you're still overlapping. Most consumer routers use CH1+5 (center 3) or CH7+11 (center 9) which spoils the whole band if you're too close to your neighbors. I reserve 2.4 for IoT only as a result.
@@TallPaulTech fair distinction - edited for precision. However, since I live in an FCC jurisdiction, the net result is still one usable 40MHz channel unless you tolerate some overlap in the center. 1+5 and 7+11 still overlap CH 5 through 7 since we can't legally use 9+13 here.
I disagree but you still get a like :) There are situations namely if you do not have enough APs to cover everything nicely with 5 Gig where you want to have 2.4 Gig Ofcourse the company is not willing to fund the upgrade. If the finance is not an issue then I agree.
We have a single AP (Unifi U7 Pro) covering a decently sized house (Brick outer walls, drywall interior). I've always left 2.4G and 5G on the same SSID, but I've just set up a 5G only to see how it goes. Strangely my (i)phone recognized that the new 5G only SSID and the existing SSID were the same network and asked if I wanted to connect to both for better connectivity :O
i had months troubleshooting wifi issues with all my smart devices not working properly, even bought a second access point. i turned off ALL the advanced wifi features of my asus router, and just had a 5ghz and a 2.4ghz (not combined) and all my low power wifi devices now work perfectly and my internet works perfectly.... i think some of the advanced features of some of the last few generations are just not widely compatible and cause issues, and unless you have a gigabit internet, you dont need the additional bandwidth.
An issue with many IoT [Shit] devices is that they need to 'broadcast' traffic on the same network as the client/APP, so both the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz SSIDs would still need to be in the same subnet. Pain in the arse for network separation and more annoying when businesses want to use shitty home devices on corporate networks... they have no clue about security and just want it to work because it does at home!
I use the 6ghz band for backhaul. I use the 5ghz and 2.4 ghz for everything else ; but the access points are what pushes devices to 5ghz over 2.4ghz. The primary access point is running well, with only 3 devices on 2.4 vs 11 on 5 ghz. The secondary access point serves devices that are more distant; and as a result, 5 ghz is only used if a device happens to roam into that particular area. All 12 devices at the moment happen to be on 2.4 ghz at the moment. Physically moving the second access point to a position higher on the wall might help as there's a few pesky doors in the way.. Overall, most of the devices are asleep except for periodic traffic as most are IOT devices waiting to wake up. Most of the highest bandwidth consuming devices are actually wired in directly; so overall, the network is relatively clean otherwise.
6 dB separation... BRO WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? This is absolute shit advice never heard any of this anywhere. You have HPE/Aruba there and I don't think this 2.4 over 5 GHz-issue is a real thing there. I've had clients always prefer 5 GHz over 2.4 if they're able to. Please stop making the world a dumber place.
@@vinny142 Well, if you happen to have an old home, attenuation is huge in walls. So if you want your wifi camera to work outside, then yes. Lots of smart home devices also don't support 5G. Best solution is a separate wifi network for smart home devices
Mixed is good if your APs don't suck, devices are always on 5Ghz exept on low coverage areas where they drop to 2.4Ghz, you get some benefits with 2.4Ghz on wifi 7 as well, if the latest wifi protocol available still uses 2.4Ghz why would we separate them into SSIDs? Make separation for IoT stuff if it needs another vlan, but the main network I have is wifi 7 with 2.4 5ghz and 6ghz all in one ssid and devices do not drop to 2.4ghz unless the AP is very far away, which rarely happens but when it does it still works.
@TallPaulTech What's wrong doesn't your HPE setup not have a "preferred 5Ghz?" option? No need to separate 2.4 from 5Ghz if you have an option to set to perferred.
Thanks for the video. This is basically how i manage my home network, but a lot of my IoT devices can do "LAN mode" if I'm on the 2.4 network too (so no internet needed). I need to pull my finger out and figure out how to get that working when I'm on the 5ghz network.
He's right. This is the way. leave one 2.4 radio on for legacy devices and everything else goes on 5ghz. youll need a few APs but thats just the way it is
Well my house has zero smart spy devices and is not in a densely populated area, thus 2.4G is not congested at all. 802.11n in my case is better than 11ac because it reaches much farther into my yard
This may seem like a good idea, but manually configuring the wireless network could lead to some tricky issues. Client devices are quite smart-they'll automatically pick the best channel based on various factors like signal strength, channel bandwidth, and how busy each channel is. It's usually a better approach to keep all the bands available under one SSID and let the clients choose the right channel for themselves. Most importantly, choosing a high-quality wireless access point and ensuring it has the latest firmware is key to a smooth experience.
@ I guarantee I manage much larger wireless networks than you do plus I have been doing this longer too. You think you know what you doing because you captured a few wireless packets. It would be nice if you used a spectrum analyzer to visualize the spectrum. Clearly you don’t know what you are doing.
I did in the past days see my 5g devices change to 2.4Ghz, and have some devices i wanted to be on the main ssid, but i needed to move them because of wpa2.. Can you do a peice on rssi and transmit power, and how to improve speed? - my phones and pc's get 1/4th the speed of wired, how come and how to get 50 or 80% when the curcumstances are good?
Yes, the more modern 5 GHz clients, the better they roam. But the iot separation by mere SSID is smart and easy. You need a lot of vlan configuration (and APs with support for it) to achieve similar.
I completely agree. This video is a hot mess and misses facts about 2.4Ghz and instead seeks to vilify it based on uninformed opinion. I specifically only use 2.4 at home and it performs much better than 5 alone, or mixed. (I don't run a supermarket so I don't get the retries, LOL)
if you need some 2.4ghz, transmit at half the power you are transmitting your 5.ghz. also if in a high density environment disable 2.4G on half or even more than half the APs.
Some devices require 2.4G to "powernap" with background app refresh and having a 5G only network increases battery power when mobile devices go to standby? :)
Band steering is great for clients that don't mind the deauth. Dumb routers/APs that try to steer a 2.4GHz-only client onto a band it cannot use just means regular deauths, which can be frustrating at best.
Interesting, however I rarely push much data to my phone, so not really an issue. most of my data is to PC's etc, on cables. If I get to work on some ones laptop, I usually try and arrange a cable connection, better than accidentally leaving my WiFi credentials on it.
This is absolutely awful advice. 2.4 GHz transmission characteristics are far better than 5 or 6GHz, higher frequencies get blocked by walls and the like a lot easier, 2.4GHz lets me get signal with a single router at the other end of the house, 5GHz would require at least 2 access points to cover the house, and I'm not prepared to start putting holes in for consumer-level APs. This advice is terrible, while there are clear advantages to 5 GHz networks, they pale in comparison to actually being able to access your network from anywhere in your house. MAYBE when I do my whole-home Ubiquiti setup, I'll consider dropping 2.4. Not everyone can get away with spending a ton on networking.
This is unnecessarily complicated for home use. Get a good router that does proper band steering and turn that feature on. Those will force devices off of the 2.4GHz if their 2.4GHz signal is strong enough that the device has to be close enough to use 5GHz, and vice versa when the 5GHz signal is too weak. This only works if you get a respectable name brand router as the cheaper ones sometimes pretend to have this feature but it doesn't actually work. 5GHz also does not go through walls well. If you disable it you will likely have no wifi on your porch, yard, etc. You need 2.4 to fill the gaps, unless you are installing an outdoor AP and multiple indoor APs.
I still use 2.4 Gz since I have a power-line extender into my garage (device doesn't support 5Ghz networks). I used to run smart devices on the 2.4Ghz, but have since reverted to using a hub as I overloaded the network. Great video though. Inspired me to change my 5Ghz to have the same SSID as my 2.4Ghz so now when i'm closer to my router my devices switch.
I do this but mainly because my 2.4Ghz devices are IoT (and other untrusted sh*te devices). Having them on their own network (which is configured to only reach Internet) means that I keep all that traffic away from my main network. The only pain point is that my printer is also 2.4GHz so I have to switch my laptop onto the 2.4Ghz network to print and then back again - but not really an issue for the little printing I do.
Yeah, that's where MPSK would come into it, but that's not generally available on home systems, which judging by the comments of this video is where most of the viewers are.
I have loads of IoT devices that only run on 2.4G unfortunately...is there a decent router out there that could put these on a vlan or something? I just use my ISP router (Virgin Media Hub 5) and, to be honest, it's a great router - I get 800mb over wifi and 1.2gb on Ethernet despite it only being a 1GB service.
Try the more expensive Asus BE range, or the cheaper option with the old one "ROG Rapture GT-AX11000 PRO" with 3.0.0.6 branch of ASUS Firmware if you don't need 6GHz band
@@arakwar not a network expert, but say my doorbell, thermostat, plugs etc that are logged into a company - do I really want them having access to my network?
Something like a Xiaomi AX3600 Aiot. Flash OpenWRT and things like vlans or nftables are a breeze. You could even assign the middle antenna to its own 2.4 GHz channel with legacy 802.11n (it is in fact a different chip), for such devices only.
2.4 and bluetooth just hate each other - anytime I run BT and have my laptop on 2.4 the throughput fails hard. I force my stuff on 5G when close enough and go 4G+BT when out in the yard for mowing with my fiio btr3 in my ears - Also split the bands on new setups for customers.this is a carry over for older laptops that would hard crash BSOD with band steering Telstra Smart Modems
2.4ghz iot, 5ghz iot, guest dual band with agressive band steering. Internal on 5ghz and secure on 5ghz. Multiple aps with reduced power levels. Pir insulated building. About 100 wifi clients mostly iot stuff. So yeah, while in principle, I agree 5ghz fixed and first there are many ways to do it.
140 square meters two-storeyed wood-framed house. 1 mikrotik cap ax, installed in the very center of the ceiling, covers the whole house well. and mikrotik wi-fi is actually not that great. brick house would easily be covered by two APs. i'm IT admin. disabled 2.4ghz at my work completely for users. they use 5ghz exclusively (a company can obviously afford several APs, but you would want multiple overlapping APs in a company anyway, for redundancy). less congested channels (2.4 ghz is overloaded in our office building), and no problems with BT mice. 2.4 Ghz is only for printers wtf, so many cheap old farts in the comments, saying to get rid of 5ghz 🤣
2.4Ghz gives you more range and stable connections compared to 5 and 6Ghz. Many devices have only 2.4Ghz interfaces. Normally, an SSID corresponds to a VLAN, so having different SSIDs makes little sense. You'd do all the work twice. If you actually need to transfer large amounts of data, you'll use your 10Gbit/s Ethernet anyway.
You actually don’t want wifi networks to have good range. That’s why cell phones are called ”cell” phones. The wireless network is divided into cells. Range introduces cross talk and issues like devices that can never send because it’s waiting for devices to stop transmitting that can’t hear them. You want your cells to be as small as possible. 5 GHz is usually better, precisely because its worse at penetrating walls and air.
@@hannes7695 yes, we want wifi networks to have a good range. Few devices actually use it, but when they use it, they should be able to communicate without issues. With small cells you get a lot of issues because lots of data is getting dropped, especially as those devices move around. And then you need multiple expensive APs instead of just one. In practical terms, deactivating the 5Ghz mode reduces a lot of problems in home wifi.
A lot of those devices such as vacuum cleaners, printers etc needs the 2.4 network to work. Reason is, these are devices that are often hidden away, or not being in the most optimal positions for a 5GHz signal to work, especially if Mr Concrete gets involved. So a lot of these devices often ship with 2.4Ghz radio only, and if your SSID has a different name for 2.4 and 5, well your shiny new device or printer may not work for the average Joe. So for them, keeping them together means less support calls.
Ok but now you can do MLO since wifi7 which will make this video useless very soon
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Hmmmm .... Yes in theory but not in practice for the majority of home based WiFi (where all the IoT crap lives) that where the home WiFi box can't handle multiple SSID that will operate on the separated radios of their home Wi-Fi basic solution. Not here to bash but if someone at home has the budget to run Aruba, Meraki, Unifi or whatever other corp grade Wi-Fi I am almost sure they would already know about this. To whoever is reading this trying to implement it in your home network, the silly solution is to buy two systems and two SSID, one runs 5Ghz the other is 2.4 for all the gadgetry IoT crap.
If a person is inclined to run a house full of IoT stuff, I'm quite sure they can manage getting a home router that can do two SSIDs... which most default ISP ones do these days.
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@@TallPaulTech IF they're after that level of performance out of their network I agree with you. I'd actually run a modem on its own and take care of the routing and WiFi separately rather than rely on a "all in one" modem+router+WiFi box. My ISP was willing to rent me the all in one modem router WiFi box for 7$ a month and no option to buy it. (guuuuuddd deal!!!)
In what universe is that a good deal, 24 month later that's like $170 - You could've easily bought one and owned it for that price, and they should definitely have a lifetime more than 24 mo.
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@almc8445 sales man said it guuuuuddd ! I was being sarcastic. They got annoyed as I brought my own modem in the deal when they already had me locked on the discount price and assumed I would keep their modem 🤣
Oh thank god 😂 Yeah screw those scummy sales tactics. We use Launtel and can’t praise them more, they have guides on their site for every router you can expect to see (Even MikroTik), even for things like IPv6
my router is from spectrum it is truly a pos. it decides what your client device needs not the other way. my garage is 100 ft away from the router thru a house exterior wall (old thin no insulation) to garage exterior which is thinner and even less of a wall. i used to have a mesh/ wifi extender and when they put the new router in i obviously had to set up the mesh device again and it would not work. i talked with spectrum they said ya they can only work with their mesh devices now and id have to purchase thru them or buy my own router to use my mesh device instead of renting theirs.
Are you talking about channels 2-5 and 7-10, if you configure WiFi for those channels they over lap each other cause interference. Its called ACI or Adjacent Channel Interference. Look up the standard 802.11 and the section about CSMA/CA. WiFi are quite stupid ;)
@@lolly_bread Yeah wonder what his target audience is. Band steering is a thing and also modern clients handle themselves just fine... Next thing he'll suggest is probably to turn off 5 GHz in favor of 6
Sadly there are people who actually believe this. People who forget that turning off on radio doesn't make the signal from the literal milions of others go away. Can't you get a hobby that doesn't involve posting seriously stupid comments on youtube?
@@thiscommentsdeleted not as funny as your trashia comments....get your mind outta the gutter and start living life.. smile and don’t worry about me and my rf problems. 🤣👋
Because of the wave form, 2.4 will go through objects much better than 5Ghz... 2.4Ghz is slower, but goes further through objects.. 5Ghz is faster but doesn't go as far when there are objects in the way like walls... General rule.. if you have line of site to the wireless point and the device Never moves (printer, desktop TV etc), go 5Ghz.. if you device never moves, but is behind a wall from the AP, your milage may very try both and connect to which is best .. and if your device is mobile and moving away from the AP a lot.. stick to 2.4Ghz.
All the negative comments here do not get the point he is making.
Don’t ditch the 2.4 band as a whole. Make a seperate 2.4 network for smart lightbulbs and IoT crap and make a seperate 5 GHz band for advanced devices. Don’t MIX the 2.4 and 5 GHz bands!
👍🏼
that is what I've suggested in my post below, I'm not sure that is the point he is making tho.
He says don’t use 2.4 band BUT there are some exceptions.
😊
I simplify it a different way. My primary home SSID is Tri-band, and my clients are smart enough to favor higher frequencies when possible (plus some router-forced band steering). My IoT SSID forces WPA2 which, as mentioned in the video, automatically excludes the 6GHz band. Some IoT devices (Echo devices, Ring doorbells) are dual-band and putting them on 5GHz improves throughput if not in an area of fringe coverage. As a bonus, it may also be less prone to jamming by thieves - something worth noting for people who use cheap Wi-Fi IP Cameras and alarm bits stuck on 2.4GHz only.
At my place of work where a warehouse is site-surveyed and AP density supports it, production WLANs are always 5GHz only (or 5+6 with coverage designed for 5), and due to AP density, only 20MHz channels.
If there were 10 down votes, I might agree, but when a video gets half the down votes as it does upvotes, rest assured it's not that people "do not get the point he is making."
@@dazzer_ I just listen to what Paul is explaining in this video. If people just see the thumbnail and title and don’t hear the complete story, that’s not my problem. Sorry.
Yeah... No
5 gig can't pass through my thick brick walls. I'm not using an AP for every room.
I can't use 5gig on my toilet or in my bed because of the walls, and I don't need the bandwidth bad enough to add more transmitters in my small apartment
You are generalising...
2.4 is great if you want to have more stable connection. Most of the time your device does not need the speeds of 5G... So you are better off using 2.4....
Your advice is very narrow sighted, I might call it terrible.
i agree
2.4Ghz uses ~20% less battery than 5Ghz does. I rest my case.
20% of what? If it's 5% battery in total I would gladly trade the additional 1% for faster wifi speeds
That’s true for 4G versus 5G. 4G is much nicer for your cellphone battery. Not sure if this also counts for 2.4 vs 5 GHz wifi…..
I have legacy devices, so step back man.
Certified wireless network expert lays out logical and experience-driven reasoning and TH-cam comment section shits the bed. Typical. You people can't factually refute a single thing he said in the video, period. Rather than having an open mind and considering the perspective of an expert on the subject, you instead inject subjective ad hominem attacks. Consider listening and thinking, you'll be better off.
2.4 GHz is superior in every way except for bandwidth so if you don’t need the extra bandwidth, then you don’t need 5 GHz
exactly. and if you need the bandwidth you'll use your ethernet anyway.
I was thinking about this. I've got a small house, three wired access points (carefully distributed channels), but very thick walls, so some devices drop the 5 GHz connection all the time. So no, I'm not sure it's that simple.
Use it! 2.4GHz network for slow devices such as ESP8266, ESP32, Shelly, Tuya, Sonoff and others.
2.4 GHz is also good for peripheral areas such as in the garden or garage.
5 GHz network such as laptop, tablet, mobile and so on.
LAN for stationary devices such as PC, TV, DVD player and so on.
5GHz is pretty useless without expensive APs. plural. With 2.4GHz I can cover the entire apartment and also the porch with one AP. Speed and latency don't matter at all for WiFi since it's just phones and other low-priority devices. Don't use WiFi for computers or anything critical.
mate you don't understand a word you're talking about do you?
2.4 for range and though obstructive terrain like walls.
5 for close range point of view
6 for very close range, point of view
2,4 is way more reliable than 5, simply due to how the waves can penetrate surfaces
You mean just like I said in the video?
Check Paul’s career. The man defenitively knows his facts. 😎
@ Thanks man. I also know when to stop responding to TH-cam comments... sometimes :)
@@TallPaulTech cheers! I have learned soooo much from all your previous videos. Thanks for that 👍🏼
I don't understand why every Wi-Fi manufacturer advertises band steering as the best thing since sliced bread when it always makes the absolute worst decisions on what bands to use. Most clients are terrible at picking the right channels and for some reason they love to pick the 2.4Ghz band when the 5Ghz band is perfectly usable, even if the 2.4Ghz band is unusable.
Thanks for confirming something I already suspected.
Great advice. Off to do some mods to my home network!!
Disable 2.4GHz, so I get a spotty coverage or just use band steering so it transparently switches between the two bands when needed? Band steering was invented ages ago and every router from the last ~10 years has it. If I'm in a spot with bad coverage, I'll have a slower (50-100mbps) but stable connection and when I move out of it - I'm back on 5GHz with 600+ (5GHz AC).
YT "tech gurus" are really bottom of the barrel these days...
If your infrastructure is bad, you may never get things how you would like them to be.
Band steering or simply 2 SSIDs one for 2.4 and one for 5GHz, easy peasy. I like and prefer to be on the wifi when I'm in the garage or out in the yard. 5GHz doesn't always cut it.
Look into powerline or MoCA
My opinion is don't use wifi altogether for devices that don't move
If they do move then use a access point
@ powerline is worse than ac/ax even in perfect conditions. Most of them struggle to get even 500mbps on short runs with no noise in the cables.
I have some super stable old Raspberry Pi running at home. I need 2.4.
Yes on all of this, but the space in the 5ghz band is quite limited if you’re restricted by DFS and want decent speed (read: bandwidth).
Add to that, multi-AP environments w/ DFS enabled for mobile clients can be quite bothersome since the device must passively listen for DFS beacons instead of actively probing when building a roam table. The net result for a fast moving device (i.e. a warehouse piece of PIT traveling between isles) is a less-than-ideal experience - especially when coupled with dumb supplicants that only judge signal strength for classifying the best candidate. This all assumes that 802.11k isn't universally supported (because it's not).
Some companies that also cheap out on client devices also quickly learn the hard way when the vendor outright disables DFS support entirely and you get artificial dead spots in your building as a result.
I have a large house multiple floors and living room, single ssid on 2.4ghz is on all the ap’s then ap/area specific ssid on 5ghz. Essentially stuff that moves around such as phones use the common 2.4 ssid(we don’t care about the less throughput) and stuff that doesn’t move such as tv streaming boxes are set to use the closest area specific 5ghz ap/ssid
Or, you know, use 40Mhz channels in the 2.4Ghz band. Channels 1 and 11 if you live in the USoA, CA, MX and the handfull of other countries that only go up to 11, and use channels 1 and 13 only if you live in the rest of the world, again, with 40Mhz channeld width instead of 20Hz channel widith
Just saying.
PS: I live in venezuela, we build our walls with red/clay hollow blocks, not gypsyum, so 5Ghz only works pretty much on the room where the AP is located. My for 2.4Ghz system is set up as 1-11-1 40Mhz width along the leght of my flat.
Using 40MHz on 2.4GHz means (edited) 1+5 or 11+7 in our FCC use-case. Either way, you're still overlapping. Most consumer routers use CH1+5 (center 3) or CH7+11 (center 9) which spoils the whole band if you're too close to your neighbors. I reserve 2.4 for IoT only as a result.
@@RickJohnson Actually, 1+5 bonded, not 1+6 as seen at the end of my previous video
@@TallPaulTech fair distinction - edited for precision. However, since I live in an FCC jurisdiction, the net result is still one usable 40MHz channel unless you tolerate some overlap in the center. 1+5 and 7+11 still overlap CH 5 through 7 since we can't legally use 9+13 here.
Thanks Paul, it was interesting. The thing you mentioned at the end about messing with the cell size, is that what Band Steering does?
I disagree but you still get a like :)
There are situations namely if you do not have enough APs to cover everything nicely with 5 Gig where you want to have 2.4 Gig
Ofcourse the company is not willing to fund the upgrade.
If the finance is not an issue then I agree.
We have a single AP (Unifi U7 Pro) covering a decently sized house (Brick outer walls, drywall interior). I've always left 2.4G and 5G on the same SSID, but I've just set up a 5G only to see how it goes.
Strangely my (i)phone recognized that the new 5G only SSID and the existing SSID were the same network and asked if I wanted to connect to both for better connectivity :O
Wifi 7 supports multi band operation at the same time. Previous versions only supported 1 band at the same time.
@ Yeah I never would’ve expected that across different SSIDs though, let alone auto detection for it 😱
i had months troubleshooting wifi issues with all my smart devices not working properly, even bought a second access point. i turned off ALL the advanced wifi features of my asus router, and just had a 5ghz and a 2.4ghz (not combined) and all my low power wifi devices now work perfectly and my internet works perfectly.... i think some of the advanced features of some of the last few generations are just not widely compatible and cause issues, and unless you have a gigabit internet, you dont need the additional bandwidth.
show me the 5GHz ESP32s
I wish I could!
The Raspberry was the other bloke sniffing packets at the shopping centre, oh err 😂
An issue with many IoT [Shit] devices is that they need to 'broadcast' traffic on the same network as the client/APP, so both the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz SSIDs would still need to be in the same subnet. Pain in the arse for network separation and more annoying when businesses want to use shitty home devices on corporate networks... they have no clue about security and just want it to work because it does at home!
This isn't in any way good advice, especially for some buildings and topology, and legacy devices.
I use the 6ghz band for backhaul. I use the 5ghz and 2.4 ghz for everything else ; but the access points are what pushes devices to 5ghz over 2.4ghz. The primary access point is running well, with only 3 devices on 2.4 vs 11 on 5 ghz. The secondary access point serves devices that are more distant; and as a result, 5 ghz is only used if a device happens to roam into that particular area.
All 12 devices at the moment happen to be on 2.4 ghz at the moment. Physically moving the second access point to a position higher on the wall might help as there's a few pesky doors in the way.. Overall, most of the devices are asleep except for periodic traffic as most are IOT devices waiting to wake up.
Most of the highest bandwidth consuming devices are actually wired in directly; so overall, the network is relatively clean otherwise.
6 dB separation... BRO WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? This is absolute shit advice never heard any of this anywhere. You have HPE/Aruba there and I don't think this 2.4 over 5 GHz-issue is a real thing there. I've had clients always prefer 5 GHz over 2.4 if they're able to. Please stop making the world a dumber place.
2.4 ghz lower power for longer distance, its better for wifi cams, and smart home appliance.
DO smart home appliances need long range communication? Do you live in a 60 bedroom mansion or something?
@@vinny142 Well, if you happen to have an old home, attenuation is huge in walls. So if you want your wifi camera to work outside, then yes. Lots of smart home devices also don't support 5G. Best solution is a separate wifi network for smart home devices
Do you have a video where you demo how to sniff all that traffic in 2.4Ghz?
Mixed is good if your APs don't suck, devices are always on 5Ghz exept on low coverage areas where they drop to 2.4Ghz, you get some benefits with 2.4Ghz on wifi 7 as well, if the latest wifi protocol available still uses 2.4Ghz why would we separate them into SSIDs? Make separation for IoT stuff if it needs another vlan, but the main network I have is wifi 7 with 2.4 5ghz and 6ghz all in one ssid and devices do not drop to 2.4ghz unless the AP is very far away, which rarely happens but when it does it still works.
I agree.. only one thing you missed.. 2.4 is so precious for the devices that only have it.. so eliminating the mixing benefits every device.
He said two networks for silly things…..
Surely you have silly things that need networks as well..
You mean like I said in the video?
@TallPaulTech What's wrong doesn't your HPE setup not have a "preferred 5Ghz?" option? No need to separate 2.4 from 5Ghz if you have an option to set to perferred.
Videos must be made, providing solutions to non esxisting problems I suppose.
If money is unlimited, sure, go for it.
1:36 is this chart misleading?
There are only four 5 GHz channels that don't require DFS (36,40,44 & 48). DFS makes WiFi unusable.
almost, 36-48 and 149-177, some may not be available in your region and hardware.
p.s. wi-fi support is a mess.
Or just turn on Band Steering
Thanks for the video. This is basically how i manage my home network, but a lot of my IoT devices can do "LAN mode" if I'm on the 2.4 network too (so no internet needed). I need to pull my finger out and figure out how to get that working when I'm on the 5ghz network.
That guy is just someone trying to sell you new equipment. If you not need more bandwidth you probably not need 5ghz
2.4 is faster for me in certain areas cause the 5g wont even reach to connect
It is better to use a cable....
Cables are fastest and most reliable. Only sue wifi if there is a an actual need to do so, like laptops and phones that move about.
He's right. This is the way. leave one 2.4 radio on for legacy devices and everything else goes on 5ghz. youll need a few APs but thats just the way it is
Well my house has zero smart spy devices and is not in a densely populated area, thus 2.4G is not congested at all. 802.11n in my case is better than 11ac because it reaches much farther into my yard
This may seem like a good idea, but manually configuring the wireless network could lead to some tricky issues. Client devices are quite smart-they'll automatically pick the best channel based on various factors like signal strength, channel bandwidth, and how busy each channel is. It's usually a better approach to keep all the bands available under one SSID and let the clients choose the right channel for themselves. Most importantly, choosing a high-quality wireless access point and ensuring it has the latest firmware is key to a smooth experience.
Well that's a feed of hot cock if ever I heard one.
@ I guarantee I manage much larger wireless networks than you do plus I have been doing this longer too. You think you know what you doing because you captured a few wireless packets. It would be nice if you used a spectrum analyzer to visualize the spectrum. Clearly you don’t know what you are doing.
I did in the past days see my 5g devices change to 2.4Ghz, and have some devices i wanted to be on the main ssid, but i needed to move them because of wpa2.. Can you do a peice on rssi and transmit power, and how to improve speed? - my phones and pc's get 1/4th the speed of wired, how come and how to get 50 or 80% when the curcumstances are good?
It seems to be running just fine here with 2.4 & 5 options available for any device to choose from.
Yes, the more modern 5 GHz clients, the better they roam. But the iot separation by mere SSID is smart and easy. You need a lot of vlan configuration (and APs with support for it) to achieve similar.
I recommend you delete this video before you lose half of your subs.
Don't you worry, the algorithm has picked this up, and honestly, this advice is so bad for the common user as to actively be comedic.
I completely agree. This video is a hot mess and misses facts about 2.4Ghz and instead seeks to vilify it based on uninformed opinion.
I specifically only use 2.4 at home and it performs much better than 5 alone, or mixed. (I don't run a supermarket so I don't get the retries, LOL)
if you need some 2.4ghz, transmit at half the power you are transmitting your 5.ghz. also if in a high density environment disable 2.4G on half or even more than half the APs.
Is it correct to set channel width for 2.4Ghz to 20 and 5Ghz to use 40 to get the best performance vs interference?
That's the standard config, yeah.
@ are there any 5Ghz channels that are better than others to use in Australia, or it doesn’t really matter?
@ Sometimes you have to be careful if clients don't probe for UNII-2e channels. I can happen, but that's a case by case basis
@ I know auto channel selection isn’t the best for 2.4Ghz, fine for 5Gz then?
Some devices require 2.4G to "powernap" with background app refresh and having a 5G only network increases battery power when mobile devices go to standby? :)
5G is far more efficient. Cite your source.
Does make sense by why not just band steer to 5ghz preferred it will look at the at bit and signal strength and associate accordingly.
Interesting theory!
Band steering is great for clients that don't mind the deauth. Dumb routers/APs that try to steer a 2.4GHz-only client onto a band it cannot use just means regular deauths, which can be frustrating at best.
I'd love to use 5 GHz but there is no way in installing an access point in every room of my house.
Interesting, however I rarely push much data to my phone, so not really an issue. most of my data is to PC's etc, on cables.
If I get to work on some ones laptop, I usually try and arrange a cable connection, better than accidentally leaving my WiFi credentials on it.
i was able to survive only first minute and i left. as an IT admin with experience with networking i've just got ear bleeding from this bs
Most printers dont use full 5GHz.
Creating solutions to problems that don't even exist, prob why the sub and view counts are in the toilet no?
Or he bought subs maybe
How many subs would he need to have to impress you?
he's an network engineer, he proably knows good enough to reccomend something
This is absolutely awful advice. 2.4 GHz transmission characteristics are far better than 5 or 6GHz, higher frequencies get blocked by walls and the like a lot easier, 2.4GHz lets me get signal with a single router at the other end of the house, 5GHz would require at least 2 access points to cover the house, and I'm not prepared to start putting holes in for consumer-level APs.
This advice is terrible, while there are clear advantages to 5 GHz networks, they pale in comparison to actually being able to access your network from anywhere in your house.
MAYBE when I do my whole-home Ubiquiti setup, I'll consider dropping 2.4.
Not everyone can get away with spending a ton on networking.
This is unnecessarily complicated for home use.
Get a good router that does proper band steering and turn that feature on. Those will force devices off of the 2.4GHz if their 2.4GHz signal is strong enough that the device has to be close enough to use 5GHz, and vice versa when the 5GHz signal is too weak. This only works if you get a respectable name brand router as the cheaper ones sometimes pretend to have this feature but it doesn't actually work.
5GHz also does not go through walls well. If you disable it you will likely have no wifi on your porch, yard, etc. You need 2.4 to fill the gaps, unless you are installing an outdoor AP and multiple indoor APs.
lol what were you capturing in wire shark? Is that legal? lol
yes, it is.
Nice one Paul, good advice.
Trust me when I say trust me :)
@@TallPaulTech horse shit. lol
I still use 2.4 Gz since I have a power-line extender into my garage (device doesn't support 5Ghz networks). I used to run smart devices on the 2.4Ghz, but have since reverted to using a hub as I overloaded the network.
Great video though. Inspired me to change my 5Ghz to have the same SSID as my 2.4Ghz so now when i'm closer to my router my devices switch.
I do this but mainly because my 2.4Ghz devices are IoT (and other untrusted sh*te devices). Having them on their own network (which is configured to only reach Internet) means that I keep all that traffic away from my main network. The only pain point is that my printer is also 2.4GHz so I have to switch my laptop onto the 2.4Ghz network to print and then back again - but not really an issue for the little printing I do.
Yeah, that's where MPSK would come into it, but that's not generally available on home systems, which judging by the comments of this video is where most of the viewers are.
Instructions unclear. None of my Ring cameras work now. Or the printers. Kid's tablets. Save your marriage, leave 2.4GHz on.
Don't Use 5 GHz For Wi-Fi
I have loads of IoT devices that only run on 2.4G unfortunately...is there a decent router out there that could put these on a vlan or something? I just use my ISP router (Virgin Media Hub 5) and, to be honest, it's a great router - I get 800mb over wifi and 1.2gb on Ethernet despite it only being a 1GB service.
Try the more expensive Asus BE range, or the cheaper option with the old one "ROG Rapture GT-AX11000 PRO" with 3.0.0.6 branch of ASUS Firmware if you don't need 6GHz band
Why a vlan?
@@arakwar not a network expert, but say my doorbell, thermostat, plugs etc that are logged into a company - do I really want them having access to my network?
Something like a Xiaomi AX3600 Aiot.
Flash OpenWRT and things like vlans or nftables are a breeze. You could even assign the middle antenna to its own 2.4 GHz channel with legacy 802.11n (it is in fact a different chip), for such devices only.
@@arakwar normally an SSID on Wifi corresponds to a vlan. and then you'll also set up your separate IP network and firewall rules.
2.4 and bluetooth just hate each other - anytime I run BT and have my laptop on 2.4 the throughput fails hard.
I force my stuff on 5G when close enough and go 4G+BT when out in the yard for mowing with my fiio btr3 in my ears -
Also split the bands on new setups for customers.this is a carry over for older laptops that would hard crash BSOD with band steering Telstra Smart Modems
2.4ghz iot, 5ghz iot, guest dual band with agressive band steering. Internal on 5ghz and secure on 5ghz.
Multiple aps with reduced power levels.
Pir insulated building.
About 100 wifi clients mostly iot stuff.
So yeah, while in principle, I agree 5ghz fixed and first there are many ways to do it.
140 square meters two-storeyed wood-framed house. 1 mikrotik cap ax, installed in the very center of the ceiling, covers the whole house well. and mikrotik wi-fi is actually not that great. brick house would easily be covered by two APs.
i'm IT admin. disabled 2.4ghz at my work completely for users. they use 5ghz exclusively (a company can obviously afford several APs, but you would want multiple overlapping APs in a company anyway, for redundancy). less congested channels (2.4 ghz is overloaded in our office building), and no problems with BT mice. 2.4 Ghz is only for printers
wtf, so many cheap old farts in the comments, saying to get rid of 5ghz 🤣
I replaced my wifi access points with MikroTik ap and I have never had such strong and stable signal. I love MT.
All and well, unless the device only uses 2.4ghz eg. Ring Bell Gen 4........
That's literally what he spent the whole video saying. Don't get rid of 2.4, just keep the networks separate for the devices that need it.
@@sonny8085 Thank you
If you want to take advantage of WiFi 7 MLO then you WILL need to have all bands enabled. But otherwise put 2.4 on their separate SSID...
I'll set that up this afternoon. Cheers.
2.4Ghz gives you more range and stable connections compared to 5 and 6Ghz.
Many devices have only 2.4Ghz interfaces.
Normally, an SSID corresponds to a VLAN, so having different SSIDs makes little sense. You'd do all the work twice.
If you actually need to transfer large amounts of data, you'll use your 10Gbit/s Ethernet anyway.
You actually don’t want wifi networks to have good range. That’s why cell phones are called ”cell” phones. The wireless network is divided into cells. Range introduces cross talk and issues like devices that can never send because it’s waiting for devices to stop transmitting that can’t hear them. You want your cells to be as small as possible. 5 GHz is usually better, precisely because its worse at penetrating walls and air.
@@hannes7695 yes, we want wifi networks to have a good range. Few devices actually use it, but when they use it, they should be able to communicate without issues.
With small cells you get a lot of issues because lots of data is getting dropped, especially as those devices move around.
And then you need multiple expensive APs instead of just one.
In practical terms, deactivating the 5Ghz mode reduces a lot of problems in home wifi.
LMFAO! What about IoT devices? A lot only support 2.4. I also want 4-5 APs for each floor of my house! that sounds cheap and smart.
A lot of those devices such as vacuum cleaners, printers etc needs the 2.4 network to work.
Reason is, these are devices that are often hidden away, or not being in the most optimal positions for a 5GHz signal to work, especially if Mr Concrete gets involved.
So a lot of these devices often ship with 2.4Ghz radio only, and if your SSID has a different name for 2.4 and 5, well your shiny new device or printer may not work for the average Joe.
So for them, keeping them together means less support calls.
For me it's networking 101. You want to be able to choose.
Good point!
I did this as soon as I started using ddwrt on my router (now just ap), phone and laptop on 5g, everything else on 2.4.
Ok but now you can do MLO since wifi7 which will make this video useless very soon
Hmmmm .... Yes in theory but not in practice for the majority of home based WiFi (where all the IoT crap lives) that where the home WiFi box can't handle multiple SSID that will operate on the separated radios of their home Wi-Fi basic solution. Not here to bash but if someone at home has the budget to run Aruba, Meraki, Unifi or whatever other corp grade Wi-Fi I am almost sure they would already know about this. To whoever is reading this trying to implement it in your home network, the silly solution is to buy two systems and two SSID, one runs 5Ghz the other is 2.4 for all the gadgetry IoT crap.
If a person is inclined to run a house full of IoT stuff, I'm quite sure they can manage getting a home router that can do two SSIDs... which most default ISP ones do these days.
@@TallPaulTech IF they're after that level of performance out of their network I agree with you. I'd actually run a modem on its own and take care of the routing and WiFi separately rather than rely on a "all in one" modem+router+WiFi box. My ISP was willing to rent me the all in one modem router WiFi box for 7$ a month and no option to buy it. (guuuuuddd deal!!!)
In what universe is that a good deal, 24 month later that's like $170 - You could've easily bought one and owned it for that price, and they should definitely have a lifetime more than 24 mo.
@almc8445 sales man said it guuuuuddd ! I was being sarcastic. They got annoyed as I brought my own modem in the deal when they already had me locked on the discount price and assumed I would keep their modem 🤣
Oh thank god 😂 Yeah screw those scummy sales tactics. We use Launtel and can’t praise them more, they have guides on their site for every router you can expect to see (Even MikroTik), even for things like IPv6
What is Wi-Fi? I still use dial up modem.
What is dial up modem? I still use carrier pigeons.
@jabadoo5307 I give up.
Wi-Fi stands for Wild Fish and it's good in your diet.
@lolly_bread how it goes with carrots?
@ Do you mean the carrots that always turn up in spew?
my router is from spectrum it is truly a pos. it decides what your client device needs not the other way. my garage is 100 ft away from the router thru a house exterior wall (old thin no insulation) to garage exterior which is thinner and even less of a wall. i used to have a mesh/ wifi extender and when they put the new router in i obviously had to set up the mesh device again and it would not work. i talked with spectrum they said ya they can only work with their mesh devices now and id have to purchase thru them or buy my own router to use my mesh device instead of renting theirs.
But what if I don't use wifi anywhere but only LAN?
oh man there are pelnty of channels in between those.
Are you talking about channels 2-5 and 7-10, if you configure WiFi for those channels they over lap each other cause interference. Its called ACI or Adjacent Channel Interference. Look up the standard 802.11 and the section about CSMA/CA. WiFi are quite stupid ;)
@@DixonSwe Exactly, which is what my previous video was about
also unless youre gaming or streaming 4k 5ghz is not even needed
I did not know there were still people who did use 2.4, let alone can argue why it's the best choice.
0:34 literally why.
Older Raspberry Pi boards only have 2.4 GHz for example.
or just get rid of 5ghz
I see there's just no helping some people
Correct, we gave up on you last year just before I subscribed funnily enough. 😁
You probably don't have brick walls.
Perhaps some of the people here (not me) just know more than you.
@@lolly_bread Yeah wonder what his target audience is. Band steering is a thing and also modern clients handle themselves just fine... Next thing he'll suggest is probably to turn off 5 GHz in favor of 6
WPA3 is more vulnerable than WPA2
source?
If my street stopped using 2,4ghz the air would smell so much sweeter.... rf pollution is real
Sadly there are people who actually believe this. People who forget that turning off on radio doesn't make the signal from the literal milions of others go away.
Can't you get a hobby that doesn't involve posting seriously stupid comments on youtube?
@ 🤣triggered
You: "Hurr durr, stupid stuff"
Sensible person: "wow, this was really dumb"
You: "T r i g g e r e d"
Peak comedy right here.
@@thiscommentsdeleted not as funny as your trashia comments....get your mind outta the gutter and start living life.. smile and don’t worry about me and my rf problems. 🤣👋
Because of the wave form, 2.4 will go through objects much better than 5Ghz... 2.4Ghz is slower, but goes further through objects.. 5Ghz is faster but doesn't go as far when there are objects in the way like walls...
General rule.. if you have line of site to the wireless point and the device Never moves (printer, desktop TV etc), go 5Ghz.. if you device never moves, but is behind a wall from the AP, your milage may very try both and connect to which is best .. and if your device is mobile and moving away from the AP a lot.. stick to 2.4Ghz.