I think the Johannean use of the word „world“ as „nations“ (John 11:52, Joh 1:29, Joh 3:16, 1stJohn 2:2) is perfectly consistent with the doctrine of Definite Atonement clearly taught by the same evangelist.
So all those that don't believe in definite atonement you believe that Jesus died for the sins of the antichrist mentioned in Revelation or the people that are already in hell. I don't think so!
Q: Does Jesus saying He died for His sheep/the Church mean He didn’t die for anyone else? By that logic we would conclude that Jesus only die for the Apostle Paul and no one else because in Galatians 2:20 Paul says that Christ gave Himself for him. So does that mean Jesus never died for anyone else? Of course not. GALATIANS 2:20 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME. This is called the negative inference fallacy.
Question are you born of Him? Or are you part of the children of the devil? 1 John 2:29 “If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.” 1 John 3:7 “Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.” 1 John 3:10 “In this the children of Elohim are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of Elohim, neither he that loveth not his brother.” Psalms 119:142 “Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.” Psalms 119:144 “The righteousness of thy testimonies is everlasting: give me understanding, and I shall live.” Psalms 119:172 “My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.” I pray that this is a blessing to you Bless you Remember … 2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” The key word in 2 Timothy 3:16 is … ALL ! So what did you profit from those verses ? Doctrine… Reproof… Correction… Instruction in Righteousness…
Michael M Thanks for the verses not quite sure what you’re getting at by posting them though. Yes of course I’m born of God. Everyone who BELIEVES is born of God. If you haven’t believed yet then you’re not born of God. No one here is arguing that regeneration is of God so not quite sure what you’re getting at.
@@apilkey Question do you keep the Fathers doctrine ? If no then you have missed the mark. I pray that you keep His Doctrine. James 2:24 “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” Bless you
@@apilkey Genesis 12:1 “Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:” Even here Abram did as he was commanded to do. Matthew 19:16 “And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?” Matthew 19:17 “And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” Ecclesiastes 12:13 “Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.” You never did answer me if you keep and do the works of keeping this law… Leviticus 19:18 “Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.” I pray that this is a blessing to you Bless you
I think the disconnect is in making the proper distinction between atonement and redemption. Under the law the high priest made atonement for every soul in Israel. Yet, not all Israel is Israel, as those not appropriating by faith the slain Lamb remained 'in their sins'. I believe that Scripture teaches a general atonement 'for the whole world' under grace, and that 'without the Spirit of Christ' many shall remain 'none of His'. The bible teaches particular redemption is only for the sheep, to whom God grants 'repentance unto life', AND, general atonement, in that His blood was shed for 'all mankind' (Acts17:26, 1Tim.4:10, 1Jn.2:2). God gives grace, and salvation, to the humble/meek (1Pet.5:5, Ps.149:4, Matt.25:34), and yet resists the proud (Acts7:51, Rom.2:5,8,11-13, Matt.23:23, 11:29, 13:23, 18:3, Lu.18:14,17). Why is it that men fail to submit to 'every word' of God, and just simply believe it!!!?
@@nykka3 Interesting that after 2 years someone thinks (about those words). That's terse I know, but as concise as video comments limit things, since no one reads them. Yes, I still believe every word I posted here, and more now. May God bring His word home to your heart! My "proof-text", or one of them, is Ps.149:4 (KJV).0
"and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved." 2 Thessalonians 2:10 So Doug Wilson, and the reformed camp... Did these hellhound non-elect refuse to believe & love that they were non-elect without the hope of Christ's definite atonement? And if they did love that they were wicked sinners without the hope of Christ (non-elect) does that mean that they will be then be saved? Because some non-elect (what I call unbelievers) I know love their sin and their sure fate to burn in hell. Does that mean they love the truth and therefore will be saved? #calvinism isn't the gospel
Righteousness or Unrighteousness That is the choice … 2 Thessalonians 2:11 “And for this cause Elohim shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:” 2 Thessalonians 2:12 “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” Psalms 119:142 “Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.” Psalms 119:144 “The righteousness of thy testimonies is everlasting: give me understanding, and I shall live.” Psalms 119:172 “My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.” 1 John 2:29 “If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.” 1 John 3:7 “Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.” 1 John 3:10 “In this the children of Elohim are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of Elohim, neither he that loveth not his brother.” I pray that this is a blessing to you Bless you Remember … 2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” The key word in 2 Timothy 3:16 is … ALL ! So what did you profit from those verses ? Doctrine… Reproof… Correction… Instruction in Righteousness…
@@michaelm254 I would say the main thing i profited from your selected verses would be that those who are born again, born of the Holy Spirit, will become lovers of what is true and good. And they will seek to do what is right in the eyes of the Lord. And this will be a direct result of not their own goodness or desire to follow God's commandments, and not of their own efforts to do good works, but by faith alone, and faith in Christ Jesus alone. "Behold, his soul is puffed up; it is not upright within him, but the righteous shall live by his faith." Habakkuk 2:4 "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin." Romans 3:20 "Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified" Galatians 2:16 "Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because "the righteous will live by faith." Galatians 3:11 "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law." Romans 3:28 "What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God. What does Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Romans 4:1-3 "David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them." Romans 4:6-8 And to further clarify, *even our desire & will to do what is right & obey Jesus Christ* is a work of the Holy Spirit given to us by *faith alone* ... "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure." 1 Peter 1:2 You are right it is a choice of "righteousness or unrighteousness". But your conclusion that this is obtained through faith in yourself and your own ability to memorize the law and carry out its requirements every single day is heresy. You make yourself true & God a liar. For God has plainly revealed that *no man will be made righteous by works of the law* therefore, only faith in Christ Jesus and his perfect life (born under the law without having broken even the smallest command or requirement) accredited to us through faith in His death on the cross & resurrection from the dead on the 3rd day. To even hint that we can somehow be obedient enough to meet God's demands of perfect adherence to the law every second of every day, is to say that Jesus died for nothing. For you think His grace isn't sufficient to make you righteous without your help and obedience. That His shed blood cannot cover & forgive all sins for all time. *The moment you add works to faith is the exact moment His blood is no longer covering your sins & His grace is no longer making you righteous* "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" Galatians 2:21 And if you are so hellbent to place faith in the law of Moses, which exact works of the law did you obey or observe the moment you were saved and given the Spirit of God? "I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?" Galatians 3:2 And if you have been so blinded by the Devil that you refuse to believe these Scriptures I have laid out because they are incompatible with your *false gospel* then why do you even believe any of the Bible? Why do you believe only some Scriptures are profitable and able to lead you to righteousness but not others? Why do you then call God a lair when He says *all scripture is profitable & good for doctrine, reproof, correction & for instruction in righteousness* ? I answered your question and told you how those verses are compatible with the *faith alone* gospel brought to Gentiles (and Jews) by the apostle Paul & company. How then Michael were these verses profitable to you? How did they improve upon your doctrine? How did they correct you? How did they reprove you? And finally, how did they *instruct you to obtain righteousness* ?
@10:58 He says, “If Jesus died for all our sins then why does anyone go to hell?” He then goes onto make the foolish argument of bringing up the sin of unbelief. ...Taking away someone’s sin does not save you. Some people believe unbelief is the only sin that people pay for which is wrong. There’s no passage saying we pay for our own sins. we don’t go to hell because of sin. We go to hell because we reject Christ and don’t believe. And they’ll say something like, “o so is unbelief the only sin that’s not paid for”? But again we don’t go to hell because of sin, we go to hell because we REJECT the only way to be saved. Their unbelief was still paid for. ...According to John 12:48 mankind will be judged based on RECEIVING or REJECTING God’s word. JOHN 12:48 48 HE THAT REJECTETH ME, AND RECEIVETH NOT MY WORDS, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. They go to hell because they REJECT the ONLY WAY to heaven which is CHRIST. *************************************** ... According to John 3:18 It’s our UNBELIEF that condemns us and not our sin: JOHN 3:18 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, BECAUSE HE HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.
This argumentation makes no sense. If unbelief is not a sin, why is it being punished? The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), and people are cast into the lake of fire for their iniquities.
@@quintus1164 it makes total sense because nowhere in scripture does it say we go to hell because of sin. Whereas scripture is explicitly clear, we go to hell because of unbelief.
'Definite atonement' is definitely wrong. Let God be true... "...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." "who gave Himself as a ransom for all..."
"World" and "all" cannot mean "all people without distinction". Rather it means "all people without distinction". See Revelation 5:9. His ransom was a definite, accomplishing act that secured salvation for people FROM every tongue, tribe and nation, not literally every person in every tongue tribe and nation. If that ransom was paid for every person who ever lived, every person who ever lived will go to heaven.
So if Doug argues that "whole world" doesnt have to mean "whole world" why can't it be the case that Universal coverage if sins doesn't have to mean a literal universal coverage? Why can't continuous unbelief be uncovered? Especially since that's the unforgivable sin?
Death in general is not penal but consequential. Man was mortal from the beginning as he was neither Unbegotten, Begotten, nor proceeding from the Unbegotten. Your supposition fails the test of scripture (1 Tim 4:13-16) all things made of nothing will return to what they were without being sustained by the Logos, that includes angels (Psalm 78). The devil himself is mortal and being cursed by GOD for telling men otherwise cut him off from direct access to the "Bread of heaven". Drop the theory that man's nature was immortal before the fall and drop the penal view of death, drop the corrupt text that say "it was GOD's will to crush Him". There was NO HUMAN PERSON in Christ to punish! That is Apollinarian/Nestorian heresy! Jesus Christ was punished unjustly by men and demons when GOD handed Him over. His punishment was UNJUST PER THE APOSTLES, Jesus came under the curse of physical death, He was not accursed! (1 Cor 12:1-3) Marcion of Sinope, and Augustine of Hippo taught that He was "anathema of God" Repent! You are under the apostalic anathema! Galatians 1!
The atonement was only definite for all the Old Testament believers who died in faith like Abraham. They died in faith and were waiting in Abraham’s bosom, but they still needed the blood of Christ to atone for their sins for the blood of bulls and goats could not take away sins. Those are the only people that the atonement was definite for and the only people that the Atonement secured the salvation of. Everyone else’s salvation after the cross is secured and definite when they BELIEVE.
Michael M It’s clear that Abraham’s FAITH was counted as righteousness and not the other way around. Abraham wasn’t made righteous so as to believe. Abraham BELIEVED and he was counted as righteous. The order of salvation is clear. GENESIS 15:5,6 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, SO SHALL THY SEED be. 6 And HE BELIEVED IN THE LORD; AND HE COUNTED IT TO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. JAMES 2:23 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the Friend of God. ROMANS 4:3,4 3 For what saith the scripture? ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS COUNTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
@@apilkey No Sorry… James 2:20 “But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” James 2:21 “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?” James 2:22 “Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?” James 2:23 “And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed Elohim, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of Elohim.” James 2:24 “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” I pray that this is a blessing to you Bless you
@8:53 He says Jesus didn’t die in a “vain attempt” and then went on to say that Jesus doesn’t “fail.” Reformers constantly try to appeal to emotions in parroting the whole “failure to save argument.” You’re appealing to emotions by stating that God would somehow be a failure if He was trying to save everyone and “couldn’t.” So can someone please explain to me why reformers keep using that same parroted appeal to emotions by calling it a “failure”? It’s only a failure to YOU and your god and your system and your beliefs. But it’s NOT a failure according to God’s Word which is my authority. Please tell me exactly where in the Bible does it say God is “trying” to save everyone and can’t? I’m sorry but that’s not in the Bible. *You’re conflating a “DESIRE” to save with an “attempt” to save.* God has a DESIRE to save everyone but He’s not “attempting” and “trying” and failing to save anyone. He clearly provided the way to salvation and by people freely rejecting Christ is not a failure of Him “trying to save.” So why do reformers keep saying that when it’s not found in the Bible? Do they have some other special gnostic light that tells them something else to be true other than scripture? Can someone also please show me where it says in scripture that His death was an attempt to save? Do reformers have a special gnostic light that tells them this? Because my Bible doesn’t tell me this. *God’s desire is to save all who BELIEVE so it’s a success when people freely believe and it’s a success when people freely reject.* Either way it’s a success but reformers just can’t wrap their heads around that. Only in your belief is it a failure. According to the scriptures and the inspired Word of Truth it’s a SUCCESS. Reformers just can’t fathom/grasp/comprehend/understand how a Sovereign God would choose to save all those who FREELY BELIEVE. They just can’t wrap their heads around it. It’s foolishness to them. They’re confounded by the way God chose to do things. They just can’t accept it. They reject it and mockingly call it a “failure.” If God chose to save everyone irresistibly He could. He can do anything He wants and who are you o man to talk back to God and question the way He chose to save mankind? *God chose to save all who FREELY BELIEVE and it’s a SUCCESS 100% of the time when people FREELY ACCEPT His free gift of grace that’s been offered to all.* It’s also a success 100% of the time when people freely choose to reject God’s free gift of salvation made available to all through faith in His Son. The reformed argument of being a failure is childish and holds no weight against the scriptures so feel free to keep touting it but your words only fall to the ground with zero meaning against God’s Word.
Salvation isn’t dependant on man. Salvation is 100% the work of God. Reformers just think that faith is part of salvation or trusting in Christ is part of salvation. They just can’t comprehend that faith is the requirement for one to be saved. Regeneration is 100% of God which He sovereignly chooses to do for anyone who FREELY BELIEVES. That’s what pleases God. What pleases reformers and their man-made religion is the opposite of what pleases God. In a vain attempt to somehow protect God’s glory they are actually detracting from it. ...According to 1 Corinthians 1:21 does it please God to save those that believe, or does it please Him to save people so that then they can believe after they’re born again? 1 CORINTHIANS 1:21 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God BY THE FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING TO SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE. QUESTION: Do you have a problem with this verse? God is not dwelling in heaven with his fingers crossed hoping men will choose him. Reformers make a mockery of Matthew 23:37 and a mockery of God’s true and GENUINE emotions: MATTHEW 23:37 37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, HOW OFTEN WOULD I HAVE GATHERED THY CHILDREN TOGETHER, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!" *THEY WOULD NOT.* Did God also “fail” here as well? QUESTION: If God predestined before the foundation of the world who would believe then why is Jesus making this statement??? *Wouldn’t a better statement from Jesus be, “How often would I have gathered you but my Father did not choose you?!”* Reformers make a mockery of Jesus’ genuine, heart-heart emotion in this passage essentially disregarding it as disingenuous. Jesus extended them a GENUINE OFFER OF SALVATION and they refused. This is not God in Heaven “crossing His fingers” just hoping that they would accept His free offer. No, this is God in Heaven stretching forth His hand in a GENUINE OFFER, longing for them with a broken heart and with the tears of a Father. That’s what God in Heaven is doing! Do you not see or feel God’s heart when you read this? Do you not see the Father’s longing heart in this verse or will you say mockingly that He’s up their just “crossing His fingers” or that He’s somehow “failing”? You truly don’t know God’s heart as clearly revealed in His Word if that’s how you think. ISAIAH 59:1-2 1 Behold, the Lord's hand is NOT shortened, that it CANNOT save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: 2 BUT YOUR INIQUITIES HAVE SEPARATED between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
*Was God also a failure here in 2 Chronicles 24:19? According to you He was. According to you God was a failure because they would not give ear despite God sending prophets to them: 2 CHRONICLES 24:19 19 Yet he sent prophets to them, to bring them again unto the LORD; and they testified against them: BUT THEY WOULD NOT GIVE EAR. 20 And the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the LORD, that ye cannot prosper? BECAUSE YE HAVE FORSAKEN THE LORD, he hath also forsaken you. *************************************** Was God also a failure here in 2 King’s 17:13-18? According to you He was. According to you God was a failure because they rejected the counsel of God again: 2 KINGS 17:13-18 13 Yet the Lord testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets. 14 Notwithstanding THEY WOULD NOT HEAR, but hardened their necks, like to the neck of their fathers, that did not believe in the Lord their God. 15 And THEY REJECTED his statutes, and his covenant that he made with their fathers, and his testimonies which he testified against them; and they followed vanity, and BECAME VAIN, and went after the heathen that were round about them, concerning whom the Lord had charged them, that they should not do like them. 16 And THEY LEFT all the commandments of the Lord their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal. 17 And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger. 18 THEREFORE the Lord was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only. *************************************** JEREMIAH 44:3-6 3 BECAUSE of their wickedness which they have committed to provoke me to anger, in that they went to burn incense, and to serve other gods, whom they knew not, neither they, ye, nor your fathers. 4 Howbeit I sent unto you all my servants the prophets, rising early and sending them, saying, Oh, do not this abominable thing that I hate. 5 BUT THEY HEARKENED NOT, nor inclined their ear to turn from their wickedness, to burn no incense unto other gods. 6 WHEREFORE my fury and mine anger was poured forth, and was kindled in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; and they are wasted and desolate, as at this day. *************************************** Was God also a failure here in Luke 7:28-30? According to you He was. According to you God was a failure because they rejected the counsel of God: LUKE 7:28-30 28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. 29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. 30 BUT THE PHARISEES AND LAWYERS REJECTED THE COUNSEL OF GOD against themselves, being not baptized of him.
@@apilkey Coped and pasted… ""FAITH ONLY"" in the KJV Bible 1 Instances - Page 1 of 1 Expand or Limit Your Search Results: All KJV books Old Testament only New Testament only Apocrypha only (?) James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. From Proverbs 28:9 “He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.” Remember … 2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” The key word in 2 Timothy 3:16 is … ALL ! So what did you profit from those verses ? Doctrine… Reproof… Correction… Instruction in Righteousness… Bless you
@@apilkey so you're a synergist? Please be consistent and answer honestly from the heart. You believe salvation is a cooperative act between God and man, and that man is ultimately put in charge of his own redemption. What Christ did was a total shot in the dark and that the Father didnt know who, if anyone, would come to faith. Be consistent please. Dont copy/paste verses out of context. Just answer in your own words from your understanding of Scripture.
@@apilkey - You said that "They just can’t comprehend that faith is the requirement for one to be saved." We could say that it's the necessary condition, and is itself the gift of God.
Am i the only believer who feels more than a little confused, not by the word of God, but by the befuddingly complex language of argumentation surrounding the Arminian-Calvinism debate? They seem like very precisely worded contradictions, easy to mangle, and impossible to stand on, and yes, adding to the word. A punching match between hirelings? What is it about "foreordained" and "whosoever believeth" and "make your calling and election sure" that is so hard to understand and conjoin, marry up, given the context of God's sovereignty and his limitless power? Is it so hard to grasp that we have an "if", but God doesn't? Is He not spaceless and timeless? And isn't "luck" and "chance" nothing more than words describing man's inability to grasp the complexity of concrete reality and causation, much less looking from earth than from the vantage point of God, and is it not that same lack of insight - heart-born of pride, perhaps - that has led us headlong into bleeding rifts in the Body of Christ? Are we still not one?
Great comment - it also presents problems with believers "falling away" from faith, a topic that appears often in Scripture. "Falling away" implies one HAD faith, but then LOST it - how can such a person exist in a Calvinist universe?
Both Calvinism and Arminianism are wrong. Christ died for all of humanity. Mankind either freely accepts or freely rejects this free gift. Christ’s death doesn’t save anyone.
Billy R Did Christ DIE for everyone? Is God’s GRACE for everyone? Is God’s MERCY for everyone? Is REPENTANCE granted to everyone? Does everyone have a MEASURE OF FAITH that they could believe? I believe the scriptures are CONSTANTLY and CONSISTENTLY CLEAR that the answers to all those questions is an emphatic YES! *********************************** I don’t believe in limited atonement NOT because I don’t think it’s “fair”. I oppose it simply because SCRIPTURE DOESN’T TEACH IT. Reformed Intent: Redeem only the elect Biblical Intent: Save all who BELIEVE Q: For whose sins did Jesus die? Q: Whose sins did He bare? A: Reformed Extent: The elect A: Biblical Extent: ALL Application of the Atonement is applied WHEN ONE BELIEVES. Limited to those who BELIEVE. Only those that looked upon the snake in the wilderness. Only to those who applied the blood to their doorposts. Only to those who BELIEVE in Christ.
He's right. Reformed say "Jesus died for the elect". Therefore it's terrible news for us non omniscient humans. Imagine a reformed evangelist coming up to you and saying Jesus died for the elect. And say that I receive that message and believe that is true, but unfortunately I am non-elect. Am I then saved? Because I then go on & say I believe that Jesus didn't die for me, the non-elect & that He did die for the elect, and therefore I believe you are saved (the reformed evangelist) and I am not. Am I then saved since I have answered the call to "believe to gospel"?
Paul has said to keep the Torah. 1 Corinthians 11:2 “Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.” Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results Result of search for "3862":ordinances 3862. paradosis par-ad'-os-is from 3860; transmission, i.e. (concretely) a precept; specially, the Jewish traditionary law:--ordinance, tradition. From 2 Thessalonians 2:15 “Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.” 15 ἌραTHEREFORE-INDEED οὖνCONSEQUENTLY , ἀδελφοίBROTHERS (NOM|VOC) , στήκετεYOU(PL)-ARE-STAND-ING, BE-YOU(PL)-STAND-ING! , καὶAND κρατεῖτεYOU(PL)-ARE-SEIZE/TAKE-HOLD-ING, BE-YOU(PL)-SEIZE/TAKE-HOLD-ING! τὰςTHE (ACC)
παραδόσειςTRADITIONS (ACC, NOM|VOC)
ἃςWHO/WHOM/WHICH (ACC) ἐδιδάχθητεYOU(PL)-WERE-TEACH-ED , εἴτεWHETHER διὰBECAUSE OF (+ACC), THROUGH (+GEN) λόγουWORD (GEN) , εἴτεWHETHER δι’BECAUSE OF (+ACC), THROUGH (+GEN) ἐπιστολῆςLETTER (GEN) ἡμῶνUS (GEN) . From Παραδόσεις paradoseis paradoseis G3862 n_ Acc Pl f traditions From … www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/2th2.pdf Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results Result of search for "3862":TRADITION 3862. paradosis par-ad'-os-is from 3860; transmission, i.e. (concretely) a precept; specially, the Jewish traditionary law:--ordinance, tradition. From 2 Thessalonians 3:6 “Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Master Yahushua Messiah, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.” I have shown you three scriptural witnesses … In the Gospels about keeping the Torah. Deuteronomy Chapter 19 דְּבָרִים 15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth; at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall a matter be established. Matthew 18 16. “But if he does not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word might be established.’ 2 Corinthians 13 1. This is the third time I am coming to you. “By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.” With the scriptural witnesses the matter is Established. I pray that this is a blessing to you. Bless you. P.S. John 7:16 “Yahushua answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.” Deuteronomy 32:1 “Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.” Deuteronomy 32:2 “My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:” Proverbs 4:1 “Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.” Proverbs 4:2 “For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.”
@@michaelm254 "i hope this is a blessing to you" No, it is not a blessing to me, and rather I reject everything you say for you wish to curse me and see me condemned by bringing me back under the law of moses... "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God." Romans 3:19 "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin." Romans 3:20 Brother these two verses have made plain the will of God, and that is that no man will be justified or made righteous through obeying the law of Moses. These two verses alone have condemned that which you have been decieved to believe and called by the Devil to go out deceiving others. But good news is on the way, if you open your heart, and pray that if what these Scriptures say is true, God grants you repentance & salvation. Read on... "But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify." Roman 3:21 If received that Scripture, amen, you are now aware that wherever the necessary "righteousness of God" is to be obtained, it will be somewhere & something apart from following any of law. Read on... "This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile," Romans 3:22 You heard it straight from God's apostle to the Gentiles, St. Paul. Faith is now the means and vehicle to be given & made righteous in God's eyes, that is faith in Jesus Christ. "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," Romans 3:23 According to God's perfect standard, according to the law, none are found righteous. Therefore none will be worthy to be in His presence according to the law. "and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Romans 3:24 But this is vert good news indeed! Because just as none will be found blameless in eyes of God that are under the law. ALL will be found righteous in the eyes of God that place their faith in Christ Jesus and His blood that forgives all sin! "But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify."
Exactly it’s NOT the Gospel. Gospel means GOOD NEWS. You can’t preach the gospel to every creature unless the gospel is FOR every creature . Otherwise you’d be preaching a lie or another gospel. A FALSE gospel. *You can preach ABOUT the gospel but you can’t actually preach THE GOSPEL.* You can’t preach GOOD NEWS to those who in their belief system eternally damned to hell before the foundation of the world. That’s NOT good news that TERRIBLE news. That’s the OPPOSITE of the Gospel. Reformed theology is a false gospel.
jaydee_xy Also if you take the reformed logic then I guess Christ only died for Paul. Q: Does Jesus saying He died for His sheep mean He didn’t die for anyone else? By that logic we would conclude that Jesus only die for the Apostle Paul and no one else because in Galatians 2:20 Paul says that Christ gave Himself for him. So does that mean Jesus never died for anyone else? Of course not. GALATIANS 2:20 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME.
God loved the world in such a way that He sent His only son to die and save those who believe in Him. It doesn't then mean that Jesus was saving the majority, He only saved the elect. World does not equal elect.
So much respect for Doug. Thanks for sharing, Canon Press!
He had to put it in there. That's beautiful.
I think the Johannean use of the word „world“ as „nations“ (John 11:52, Joh 1:29, Joh 3:16, 1stJohn 2:2) is perfectly consistent with the doctrine of Definite Atonement clearly taught by the same evangelist.
Although Wilson's sounds plausible, I have always took it more like you are showing from these verses. Not just Jews anymore, but Jews and Gentiles.
Love me some Doug Wilson.
So all those that don't believe in definite atonement you believe that Jesus died for the sins of the antichrist mentioned in Revelation or the people that are already in hell. I don't think so!
The atonement is definite for all who believe.
Q: Does Jesus saying He died for His sheep/the Church mean He didn’t die for anyone else?
By that logic we would conclude that Jesus only die for the Apostle Paul and no one else because in Galatians 2:20 Paul says that Christ gave Himself for him.
So does that mean Jesus never died for anyone else?
Of course not.
GALATIANS 2:20
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME.
This is called the negative inference fallacy.
Question are you born of Him?
Or are you part of the children of the devil?
1 John 2:29
“If ye know that he is righteous,
ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.”
1 John 3:7
“Little children, let no man deceive you:
he that doeth righteousness is righteous,
even as he is righteous.”
1 John 3:10
“In this the children of Elohim are manifest,
and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of Elohim,
neither he that loveth not his brother.”
Psalms 119:142
“Thy righteousness
is an everlasting righteousness,
and
thy law is the truth.”
Psalms 119:144
“The righteousness
of thy testimonies is everlasting:
give me understanding,
and
I shall live.”
Psalms 119:172
“My tongue shall speak of thy word:
for all
thy commandments
are
righteousness.”
I pray that this is a blessing to you
Bless you
Remember …
2 Timothy 3:16
“All scripture
is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for
doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in
righteousness:”
The key word in 2 Timothy 3:16 is … ALL !
So what did you profit from those verses ?
Doctrine…
Reproof…
Correction…
Instruction in Righteousness…
Michael M Thanks for the verses not quite sure what you’re getting at by posting them though.
Yes of course I’m born of God.
Everyone who BELIEVES is born of God.
If you haven’t believed yet then you’re not born of God.
No one here is arguing that regeneration is of God so not quite sure what you’re getting at.
@@apilkey Question do you keep the Fathers doctrine
?
If no then you have missed the mark.
I pray that you keep His Doctrine.
James 2:24
“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only.”
Bless you
Michael M When was Abraham’s faith counted as righteousness?
When he believed God in Genesis 15:6 or when he sacrificed Isaac around 38 years later?
@@apilkey Genesis 12:1
“Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:”
Even here Abram did as he was commanded to do.
Matthew 19:16
“And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do,
that I may have eternal life?”
Matthew 19:17
“And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
but if thou wilt enter into life,
keep the commandments.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13
“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.”
You never did answer me if you keep and do the works of keeping this law…
Leviticus 19:18
“Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people,
but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:
I am the LORD.”
I pray that this is a blessing to you
Bless you
I think the disconnect is in making the proper distinction between atonement and redemption.
Under the law the high priest made atonement for every soul in Israel. Yet, not all Israel is Israel, as those not appropriating by faith the slain Lamb remained 'in their sins'.
I believe that Scripture teaches a general atonement 'for the whole world' under grace, and that 'without the Spirit of Christ' many shall remain 'none of His'. The bible teaches particular redemption is only for the sheep, to whom God grants 'repentance unto life', AND, general atonement, in that His blood was shed for 'all mankind' (Acts17:26, 1Tim.4:10, 1Jn.2:2).
God gives grace, and salvation, to the humble/meek (1Pet.5:5, Ps.149:4, Matt.25:34), and yet resists the proud (Acts7:51, Rom.2:5,8,11-13, Matt.23:23, 11:29, 13:23, 18:3, Lu.18:14,17).
Why is it that men fail to submit to 'every word' of God, and just simply believe it!!!?
Very helpful. Thank you.
@@nykka3
Interesting that after 2 years someone thinks (about those words).
That's terse I know, but as concise as video comments limit things, since no one reads them.
Yes, I still believe every word I posted here, and more now.
May God bring His word home to your heart!
My "proof-text", or one of them, is Ps.149:4 (KJV).0
@@michaelstanley4698 I like to read the comments on most videos. Your comment was helpful. Thx.
"and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."
2 Thessalonians 2:10
So Doug Wilson, and the reformed camp... Did these hellhound non-elect refuse to believe & love that they were non-elect without the hope of Christ's definite atonement? And if they did love that they were wicked sinners without the hope of Christ (non-elect) does that mean that they will be then be saved? Because some non-elect (what I call unbelievers) I know love their sin and their sure fate to burn in hell. Does that mean they love the truth and therefore will be saved?
#calvinism isn't the gospel
Righteousness or Unrighteousness
That is the choice …
2 Thessalonians 2:11
“And for this cause
Elohim shall send them strong delusion,
that they
should believe a lie:”
2 Thessalonians 2:12
“That they
all
might be damned who believed not
the truth,
but had pleasure in
unrighteousness.”
Psalms 119:142
“Thy righteousness
is an everlasting righteousness,
and
thy law is the truth.”
Psalms 119:144
“The righteousness
of thy testimonies is everlasting:
give me understanding,
and I shall live.”
Psalms 119:172
“My tongue shall speak of thy word:
for all
thy commandments
are
righteousness.”
1 John 2:29
“If ye know that he is righteous,
ye know that every one that doeth righteousness
is born of him.”
1 John 3:7
“Little children,
let no man deceive you:
he that doeth righteousness is righteous,
even as he is righteous.”
1 John 3:10
“In this the children of Elohim are manifest,
and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of Elohim,
neither he that loveth not his brother.”
I pray that this is a blessing to you
Bless you
Remember …
2 Timothy 3:16
“All scripture
is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for
doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in
righteousness:”
The key word in 2 Timothy 3:16 is … ALL !
So what did you profit from those verses ?
Doctrine…
Reproof…
Correction…
Instruction in Righteousness…
@@michaelm254 I would say the main thing i profited from your selected verses would be that those who are born again, born of the Holy Spirit, will become lovers of what is true and good. And they will seek to do what is right in the eyes of the Lord. And this will be a direct result of not their own goodness or desire to follow God's commandments, and not of their own efforts to do good works, but by faith alone, and faith in Christ Jesus alone.
"Behold, his soul is puffed up; it is not upright within him, but the righteous shall live by his faith." Habakkuk 2:4
"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin." Romans 3:20
"Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified" Galatians 2:16
"Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because "the righteous will live by faith." Galatians 3:11
"For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law." Romans 3:28
"What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter?
If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God.
What does Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Romans 4:1-3
"David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
"Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them." Romans 4:6-8
And to further clarify, *even our desire & will to do what is right & obey Jesus Christ* is a work of the Holy Spirit given to us by *faith alone* ...
"according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure." 1 Peter 1:2
You are right it is a choice of "righteousness or unrighteousness".
But your conclusion that this is obtained through faith in yourself and your own ability to memorize the law and carry out its requirements every single day is heresy. You make yourself true & God a liar. For God has plainly revealed that *no man will be made righteous by works of the law* therefore, only faith in Christ Jesus and his perfect life (born under the law without having broken even the smallest command or requirement) accredited to us through faith in His death on the cross & resurrection from the dead on the 3rd day. To even hint that we can somehow be obedient enough to meet God's demands of perfect adherence to the law every second of every day, is to say that Jesus died for nothing. For you think His grace isn't sufficient to make you righteous without your help and obedience. That His shed blood cannot cover & forgive all sins for all time. *The moment you add works to faith is the exact moment His blood is no longer covering your sins & His grace is no longer making you righteous*
"I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" Galatians 2:21
And if you are so hellbent to place faith in the law of Moses, which exact works of the law did you obey or observe the moment you were saved and given the Spirit of God?
"I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?" Galatians 3:2
And if you have been so blinded by the Devil that you refuse to believe these Scriptures I have laid out because they are incompatible with your *false gospel* then why do you even believe any of the Bible? Why do you believe only some Scriptures are profitable and able to lead you to righteousness but not others? Why do you then call God a lair when He says *all scripture is profitable & good for doctrine, reproof, correction & for instruction in righteousness* ? I answered your question and told you how those verses are compatible with the *faith alone* gospel brought to Gentiles (and Jews) by the apostle Paul & company.
How then Michael were these verses profitable to you? How did they improve upon your doctrine? How did they correct you? How did they reprove you? And finally, how did they *instruct you to obtain righteousness* ?
@10:58 He says, “If Jesus died for all our sins then why does anyone go to hell?”
He then goes onto make the foolish argument of bringing up the sin of unbelief.
...Taking away someone’s sin does not save you.
Some people believe unbelief is the only sin that people pay for which is wrong.
There’s no passage saying we pay for our own sins.
we don’t go to hell because of sin.
We go to hell because we reject Christ and don’t believe.
And they’ll say something like, “o so is unbelief the only sin that’s not paid for”?
But again we don’t go to hell because of sin, we go to hell because we REJECT the only way to be saved.
Their unbelief was still paid for.
...According to John 12:48 mankind will be judged based on RECEIVING or REJECTING God’s word.
JOHN 12:48
48 HE THAT REJECTETH ME, AND RECEIVETH NOT MY WORDS, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
They go to hell because they REJECT the ONLY WAY to heaven which is CHRIST.
***************************************
... According to John 3:18 It’s our UNBELIEF that condemns us and not our sin:
JOHN 3:18
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, BECAUSE HE HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.
This argumentation makes no sense. If unbelief is not a sin, why is it being punished?
The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), and people are cast into the lake of fire for their iniquities.
@@quintus1164 it makes total sense because nowhere in scripture does it say we go to hell because of sin.
Whereas scripture is explicitly clear, we go to hell because of unbelief.
'Definite atonement' is definitely wrong. Let God be true...
"...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."
"who gave Himself as a ransom for all..."
"World" and "all" cannot mean "all people without distinction". Rather it means "all people without distinction". See Revelation 5:9. His ransom was a definite, accomplishing act that secured salvation for people FROM every tongue, tribe and nation, not literally every person in every tongue tribe and nation. If that ransom was paid for every person who ever lived, every person who ever lived will go to heaven.
So if Doug argues that "whole world" doesnt have to mean "whole world" why can't it be the case that Universal coverage if sins doesn't have to mean a literal universal coverage? Why can't continuous unbelief be uncovered? Especially since that's the unforgivable sin?
So few seem to get that
Death in general is not penal but consequential. Man was mortal from the beginning as he was neither Unbegotten, Begotten, nor proceeding from the Unbegotten. Your supposition fails the test of scripture (1 Tim 4:13-16) all things made of nothing will return to what they were without being sustained by the Logos, that includes angels (Psalm 78). The devil himself is mortal and being cursed by GOD for telling men otherwise cut him off from direct access to the "Bread of heaven". Drop the theory that man's nature was immortal before the fall and drop the penal view of death, drop the corrupt text that say "it was GOD's will to crush Him". There was NO HUMAN PERSON in Christ to punish! That is Apollinarian/Nestorian heresy! Jesus Christ was punished unjustly by men and demons when GOD handed Him over. His punishment was UNJUST PER THE APOSTLES, Jesus came under the curse of physical death, He was not accursed! (1 Cor 12:1-3) Marcion of Sinope, and Augustine of Hippo taught that He was "anathema of God" Repent! You are under the apostalic anathema! Galatians 1!
Doug's videos sure draw the weirdos out of the woodwork.
I'm finally a five-point calvinist, but a premillennial pre-wrath trib eschatology LOL still trying to decide if it's historical or futurist premill
What about the "unpardonable sin" of cursing the Spirit? Jesus did not die for that.
The atonement was only definite for all the Old Testament believers who died in faith like Abraham.
They died in faith and were waiting in Abraham’s bosom, but they still needed the blood of Christ to atone for their sins for the blood of bulls and goats could not take away sins.
Those are the only people that the atonement was definite for and the only people that the Atonement secured the salvation of.
Everyone else’s salvation after the cross is secured and definite when they BELIEVE.
Genesis 26:5
“Because that Abraham obeyed my voice,
and kept my charge,
my commandments,
my statutes,
and my laws.”
Bless you
Michael M It’s clear that Abraham’s FAITH was counted as righteousness and not the other way around.
Abraham wasn’t made righteous so as to believe.
Abraham BELIEVED and he was counted as righteous.
The order of salvation is clear.
GENESIS 15:5,6
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, SO SHALL THY SEED be.
6 And HE BELIEVED IN THE LORD; AND HE COUNTED IT TO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
JAMES 2:23
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the Friend of God.
ROMANS 4:3,4
3 For what saith the scripture? ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS COUNTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
@@apilkey No Sorry…
James 2:20
“But wilt thou know,
O vain man,
that faith without works is dead?”
James 2:21
“Was not Abraham our father justified by works,
when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?”
James 2:22
“Seest thou how faith wrought with his works,
and by works
was faith made perfect?”
James 2:23
“And the scripture was fulfilled which saith,
Abraham believed Elohim,
and it was imputed unto him for righteousness:
and he was called the Friend of Elohim.”
James 2:24
“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only.”
I pray that this is a blessing to you
Bless you
Right. That's what Calvinists would say too. Everyone who believes is saved and atoned. Everyone who doesn't is not, and is left dead in their sins.
@8:53 He says Jesus didn’t die in a “vain attempt” and then went on to say that Jesus doesn’t “fail.”
Reformers constantly try to appeal to emotions in parroting the whole “failure to save argument.”
You’re appealing to emotions by stating that God would somehow be a failure if He was trying to save everyone and “couldn’t.”
So can someone please explain to me why reformers keep using that same parroted appeal to emotions by calling it a “failure”?
It’s only a failure to YOU and your god and your system and your beliefs.
But it’s NOT a failure according to God’s Word which is my authority.
Please tell me exactly where in the Bible does it say God is “trying” to save everyone and can’t?
I’m sorry but that’s not in the Bible.
*You’re conflating a “DESIRE” to save with an “attempt” to save.*
God has a DESIRE to save everyone but He’s not “attempting” and “trying” and failing to save anyone.
He clearly provided the way to salvation and by people freely rejecting Christ is not a failure of Him “trying to save.”
So why do reformers keep saying that when it’s not found in the Bible?
Do they have some other special gnostic light that tells them something else to be true other than scripture?
Can someone also please show me where it says in scripture that His death was an attempt to save?
Do reformers have a special gnostic light that tells them this?
Because my Bible doesn’t tell me this.
*God’s desire is to save all who BELIEVE so it’s a success when people freely believe and it’s a success when people freely reject.*
Either way it’s a success but reformers just can’t wrap their heads around that.
Only in your belief is it a failure.
According to the scriptures and the inspired Word of Truth it’s a SUCCESS.
Reformers just can’t fathom/grasp/comprehend/understand how a Sovereign God would choose to save all those who FREELY BELIEVE.
They just can’t wrap their heads around it.
It’s foolishness to them.
They’re confounded by the way God chose to do things.
They just can’t accept it.
They reject it and mockingly call it a “failure.”
If God chose to save everyone irresistibly He could.
He can do anything He wants and who are you o man to talk back to God and question the way He chose to save mankind?
*God chose to save all who FREELY BELIEVE and it’s a SUCCESS 100% of the time when people FREELY ACCEPT His free gift of grace that’s been offered to all.*
It’s also a success 100% of the time when people freely choose to reject God’s free gift of salvation made available to all through faith in His Son.
The reformed argument of being a failure is childish and holds no weight against the scriptures so feel free to keep touting it but your words only fall to the ground with zero meaning against God’s Word.
Salvation isn’t dependant on man.
Salvation is 100% the work of God.
Reformers just think that faith is part of salvation or trusting in Christ is part of salvation.
They just can’t comprehend that faith is the requirement for one to be saved.
Regeneration is 100% of God which He sovereignly chooses to do for anyone who FREELY BELIEVES.
That’s what pleases God.
What pleases reformers and their man-made religion is the opposite of what pleases God.
In a vain attempt to somehow protect God’s glory they are actually detracting from it.
...According to 1 Corinthians 1:21 does it please God to save those that believe, or does it please Him to save people so that then they can believe after they’re born again?
1 CORINTHIANS 1:21
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God BY THE FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING TO SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE.
QUESTION: Do you have a problem with this verse?
God is not dwelling in heaven with his fingers crossed hoping men will choose him.
Reformers make a mockery of Matthew 23:37 and a mockery of God’s true and GENUINE emotions:
MATTHEW 23:37
37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, HOW OFTEN WOULD I HAVE GATHERED THY CHILDREN TOGETHER, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!"
*THEY WOULD NOT.*
Did God also “fail” here as well?
QUESTION: If God predestined before the foundation of the world who would believe then why is Jesus making this statement???
*Wouldn’t a better statement from Jesus be, “How often would I have gathered you but my Father did not choose you?!”*
Reformers make a mockery of Jesus’ genuine, heart-heart emotion in this passage essentially disregarding it as disingenuous.
Jesus extended them a GENUINE OFFER OF SALVATION and they refused.
This is not God in Heaven “crossing His fingers” just hoping that they would accept His free offer.
No, this is God in Heaven stretching forth His hand in a GENUINE OFFER, longing for them with a broken heart and with the tears of a Father.
That’s what God in Heaven is doing!
Do you not see or feel God’s heart when you read this?
Do you not see the Father’s longing heart in this verse or will you say mockingly that He’s up their just “crossing His fingers” or that He’s somehow “failing”?
You truly don’t know God’s heart as clearly revealed in His Word if that’s how you think.
ISAIAH 59:1-2
1 Behold, the Lord's hand is NOT shortened, that it CANNOT save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 BUT YOUR INIQUITIES HAVE SEPARATED between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
*Was God also a failure here in 2 Chronicles 24:19?
According to you He was.
According to you God was a failure because they would not give ear despite God sending prophets to them:
2 CHRONICLES 24:19
19 Yet he sent prophets to them, to bring them again unto the LORD; and they testified against them: BUT THEY WOULD NOT GIVE EAR.
20 And the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the LORD, that ye cannot prosper? BECAUSE YE HAVE FORSAKEN THE LORD, he hath also forsaken you.
***************************************
Was God also a failure here in 2 King’s 17:13-18?
According to you He was.
According to you God was a failure because they rejected the counsel of God again:
2 KINGS 17:13-18
13 Yet the Lord testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets.
14 Notwithstanding THEY WOULD NOT HEAR, but hardened their necks, like to the neck of their fathers, that did not believe in the Lord their God.
15 And THEY REJECTED his statutes, and his covenant that he made with their fathers, and his testimonies which he testified against them; and they followed vanity, and BECAME VAIN, and went after the heathen that were round about them, concerning whom the Lord had charged them, that they should not do like them.
16 And THEY LEFT all the commandments of the Lord their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal.
17 And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger.
18 THEREFORE the Lord was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.
***************************************
JEREMIAH 44:3-6
3 BECAUSE of their wickedness which they have committed to provoke me to anger, in that they went to burn incense, and to serve other gods, whom they knew not, neither they, ye, nor your fathers.
4 Howbeit I sent unto you all my servants the prophets, rising early and sending them, saying, Oh, do not this abominable thing that I hate.
5 BUT THEY HEARKENED NOT, nor inclined their ear to turn from their wickedness, to burn no incense unto other gods.
6 WHEREFORE my fury and mine anger was poured forth, and was kindled in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; and they are wasted and desolate, as at this day.
***************************************
Was God also a failure here in Luke 7:28-30?
According to you He was.
According to you God was a failure because they rejected the counsel of God:
LUKE 7:28-30
28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 BUT THE PHARISEES AND LAWYERS REJECTED THE COUNSEL OF GOD against themselves, being not baptized of him.
@@apilkey Coped and pasted…
""FAITH ONLY"" in the KJV Bible
1 Instances - Page 1 of 1
Expand or Limit Your Search Results:
All KJV books Old Testament only New Testament only Apocrypha only (?)
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified,
and not by faith only.
From
Proverbs 28:9
“He that turneth away his ear from hearing
the law,
even his prayer shall be abomination.”
Remember …
2 Timothy 3:16
“All scripture
is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for
doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in
righteousness:”
The key word in 2 Timothy 3:16 is … ALL !
So what did you profit from those verses ?
Doctrine…
Reproof…
Correction…
Instruction in Righteousness…
Bless you
@@apilkey so you're a synergist? Please be consistent and answer honestly from the heart. You believe salvation is a cooperative act between God and man, and that man is ultimately put in charge of his own redemption. What Christ did was a total shot in the dark and that the Father didnt know who, if anyone, would come to faith. Be consistent please. Dont copy/paste verses out of context. Just answer in your own words from your understanding of Scripture.
@@apilkey - You said that "They just can’t comprehend that faith is the requirement for one to be saved."
We could say that it's the necessary condition, and is itself the gift of God.
Cool
Does anyone else see a GAPING absence of scripture to back up his points?
1 Cor 15:22
All will be resurrected. Therefore the atonement does affect all.
You gotta keep reading onto verse 23 brother - only those who are Christ's will be resurrected. That's the "all" that Paul talks about in verse 22.
@@aquathamer707 I read it as order, not that it wont happen at all, for everyone.
Am i the only believer who feels more than a little confused, not by the word of God, but by the befuddingly complex language of argumentation surrounding the Arminian-Calvinism debate? They seem like very precisely worded contradictions, easy to mangle, and impossible to stand on, and yes, adding to the word. A punching match between hirelings? What is it about "foreordained" and "whosoever believeth" and "make your calling and election sure" that is so hard to understand and conjoin, marry up, given the context of God's sovereignty and his limitless power? Is it so hard to grasp that we have an "if", but God doesn't? Is He not spaceless and timeless? And isn't "luck" and "chance" nothing more than words describing man's inability to grasp the complexity of concrete reality and causation, much less looking from earth than from the vantage point of God, and is it not that same lack of insight - heart-born of pride, perhaps - that has led us headlong into bleeding rifts in the Body of Christ? Are we still not one?
Great comment - it also presents problems with believers "falling away" from faith, a topic that appears often in Scripture. "Falling away" implies one HAD faith, but then LOST it - how can such a person exist in a Calvinist universe?
Grasping theological issues are harder for some than others.
Both Calvinism and Arminianism are wrong.
Christ died for all of humanity.
Mankind either freely accepts or freely rejects this free gift.
Christ’s death doesn’t save anyone.
@@apilkey
There is no verse that said Christ died for "all of humanity".
Billy R Did Christ DIE for everyone?
Is God’s GRACE for everyone?
Is God’s MERCY for everyone?
Is REPENTANCE granted to
everyone?
Does everyone have a MEASURE OF FAITH that they could believe?
I believe the scriptures are CONSTANTLY and CONSISTENTLY CLEAR that the answers to all those questions is an emphatic YES!
***********************************
I don’t believe in limited atonement NOT because I don’t think it’s “fair”.
I oppose it simply because SCRIPTURE DOESN’T TEACH IT.
Reformed Intent: Redeem only the elect
Biblical Intent: Save all who BELIEVE
Q: For whose sins did Jesus die?
Q: Whose sins did He bare?
A: Reformed Extent: The elect
A: Biblical Extent: ALL
Application of the Atonement is applied WHEN ONE BELIEVES.
Limited to those who BELIEVE.
Only those that looked upon the snake in the wilderness.
Only to those who applied the blood to their doorposts.
Only to those who BELIEVE in Christ.
He's right. Reformed say "Jesus died for the elect". Therefore it's terrible news for us non omniscient humans. Imagine a reformed evangelist coming up to you and saying Jesus died for the elect. And say that I receive that message and believe that is true, but unfortunately I am non-elect. Am I then saved? Because I then go on & say I believe that Jesus didn't die for me, the non-elect & that He did die for the elect, and therefore I believe you are saved (the reformed evangelist) and I am not. Am I then saved since I have answered the call to "believe to gospel"?
Read CH Spurgeon’s Defense of Calvinism. It should help you with this. Blessings to you.
Paul has said to keep the Torah.
1 Corinthians 11:2
“Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things,
and keep
the ordinances,
as I delivered them to you.”
Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results
Result of search for "3862":ordinances
3862. paradosis par-ad'-os-is from 3860; transmission, i.e. (concretely) a precept; specially, the Jewish traditionary law:--ordinance, tradition.
From
2 Thessalonians 2:15
“Therefore, brethren, stand fast,
and hold
the traditions
which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.”
15 ἌραTHEREFORE-INDEED οὖνCONSEQUENTLY , ἀδελφοίBROTHERS (NOM|VOC) , στήκετεYOU(PL)-ARE-STAND-ING, BE-YOU(PL)-STAND-ING! , καὶAND κρατεῖτεYOU(PL)-ARE-SEIZE/TAKE-HOLD-ING, BE-YOU(PL)-SEIZE/TAKE-HOLD-ING! τὰςTHE (ACC)
παραδόσειςTRADITIONS (ACC, NOM|VOC)
ἃςWHO/WHOM/WHICH (ACC) ἐδιδάχθητεYOU(PL)-WERE-TEACH-ED , εἴτεWHETHER διὰBECAUSE OF (+ACC), THROUGH (+GEN) λόγουWORD (GEN) , εἴτεWHETHER δι’BECAUSE OF (+ACC), THROUGH (+GEN) ἐπιστολῆςLETTER (GEN) ἡμῶνUS (GEN) .
From
Παραδόσεις
paradoseis paradoseis G3862 n_ Acc Pl f traditions
From …
www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/2th2.pdf
Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results
Result of search for "3862":TRADITION
3862. paradosis par-ad'-os-is from 3860; transmission, i.e. (concretely) a precept; specially, the Jewish traditionary law:--ordinance, tradition.
From
2 Thessalonians 3:6
“Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Master Yahushua Messiah, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly,
and not after the
tradition
which he received of us.”
I have shown you three scriptural witnesses …
In the Gospels about keeping the Torah.
Deuteronomy Chapter 19 דְּבָרִים
15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth; at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall a matter be established.
Matthew 18
16. “But if he does not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word might be established.’
2 Corinthians 13
1. This is the third time
I am coming to you.
“By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.”
With the scriptural witnesses the matter is Established.
I pray that this is a blessing to you.
Bless you.
P.S. John 7:16
“Yahushua answered them, and said,
My doctrine
is not mine,
but his that sent me.”
Deuteronomy 32:1
“Give ear, O ye heavens,
and I will speak;
and hear,
O earth,
the words of my mouth.”
Deuteronomy 32:2
“My doctrine
shall drop as the rain,
my speech shall distil as the dew,
as the small rain upon the tender herb,
and as the showers upon the grass:”
Proverbs 4:1
“Hear, ye children,
the instruction of a father,
and attend to know understanding.”
Proverbs 4:2
“For I give you
good doctrine,
forsake ye not
my law.”
@@michaelm254 "i hope this is a blessing to you" No, it is not a blessing to me, and rather I reject everything you say for you wish to curse me and see me condemned by bringing me back under the law of moses...
"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God."
Romans 3:19
"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin."
Romans 3:20
Brother these two verses have made plain the will of God, and that is that no man will be justified or made righteous through obeying the law of Moses.
These two verses alone have condemned that which you have been decieved to believe and called by the Devil to go out deceiving others.
But good news is on the way, if you open your heart, and pray that if what these Scriptures say is true, God grants you repentance & salvation. Read on...
"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify."
Roman 3:21
If received that Scripture, amen, you are now aware that wherever the necessary "righteousness of God" is to be obtained, it will be somewhere & something apart from following any of law. Read on...
"This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,"
Romans 3:22
You heard it straight from God's apostle to the Gentiles, St. Paul. Faith is now the means and vehicle to be given & made righteous in God's eyes, that is faith in Jesus Christ.
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
Romans 3:23
According to God's perfect standard, according to the law, none are found righteous. Therefore none will be worthy to be in His presence according to the law.
"and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."
Romans 3:24
But this is vert good news indeed! Because just as none will be found blameless in eyes of God that are under the law. ALL will be found righteous in the eyes of God that place their faith in Christ Jesus and His blood that forgives all sin!
"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify."
Exactly it’s NOT the Gospel.
Gospel means GOOD NEWS.
You can’t preach the gospel to every creature unless the gospel is FOR every creature .
Otherwise you’d be preaching a lie or another gospel.
A FALSE gospel.
*You can preach ABOUT the gospel but you can’t actually preach THE GOSPEL.*
You can’t preach GOOD NEWS to those who in their belief system eternally damned to hell before the foundation of the world.
That’s NOT good news that TERRIBLE news.
That’s the OPPOSITE of the Gospel.
Reformed theology is a false gospel.
jaydee_xy Also if you take the reformed logic then I guess Christ only died for Paul.
Q: Does Jesus saying He died for His sheep mean He didn’t die for anyone else?
By that logic we would conclude that Jesus only die for the Apostle Paul and no one else because in Galatians 2:20 Paul says that Christ gave Himself for him.
So does that mean Jesus never died for anyone else?
Of course not.
GALATIANS 2:20
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME.
God loved the world in such a way that He sent His only son to die and save those who believe in Him. It doesn't then mean that Jesus was saving the majority, He only saved the elect. World does not equal elect.
Jesus can't fail. He is DEAD. Get over it.
Uuuhh . No.