My brain is exploding!! I just came out of years in a church that, yes taught the Word, BUT was in lots of error concerning signs and wonders, gifts, word of faith etc. We starting moving to more fundamental teachings, and then I find this beautiful man. I also found John Mc Arthur, and Voddie. So thankful for solid teachers. However I can barely grasp this new teaching which is obviously completely opposite what I learned. I believe it but wow I will have to listen to this and the other ones 20 more times to digest this. I love it and it will not stop me from sharing the gospel which I always have. But this is sooo comforting. He is sovereign and I love that so much. Fear of the Lord is leveled up big time hearing this.. lol God bless
You are describing my very experience of just the last 2-3 months!!! Coming to the knowledge of the true Gospel, the true doctrine of salvation, the holiness of God, the Sovereignty of God, sanctification and the fear of God, after 17 years of charismatic teachings…
@@Ruby-22 justified by faith alone. Repentance is believing then Christ gives us His Faith. Galatians 3 22 KJV. Of is the preposition Paul used not in. Of means belonging to. 👍
These videos are the true blessing. R.C. Sproul is one of my favourite pastors-teachers. But we definitely are Christians firstly and then Calvinists. Knowledge is so important, but debating with the Arminian bretheren with love is more important. Greetings from Ukraine (Evangelical Reformed Presbyterian church of Odesa).
This video is full of extra biblical propositions and negative inferences to prove calvinism. It also shows rc and anybody else who affirms LA doesn't even know what the atonement does and doesn't do.
Seems more like a curse to me. God probably lets people like him have a legacy just to play around with all those who are foolish enough to actually listen to him.
It's very sad that you believe that let God be true and every man a liar as it is written that you might be justified in your sayings and that you might overcome when you are judged. the gospel that saves is 1corinthians 15:1-4 and it's for every creature and it's according to the scriptures not Calvinism or reformed theology Gods word doesn't need to be reformed and grace that is forced on anyone so called irresistible grace is not grace at all and to limit what Jesus has finished on the cross by dying for sin period not just individual sins of some people is disgraceful and keep in mind hell was not even prepared for men but for the devil and his angels men go there because they choose to reject the Son of the living God he came to his own and his own received him not a gift must be received John 1:12 not forced on anyone men are without excuse because God did give us hope by sending Jesus but again a gift must be received it's not Gods fault that some choose to believe and others don't how dare anyone put that on the loving God.
@@kevinramsey2636 That may be the longest sentence ever, taking so many words to show that you do not understand, or do not believe, the Scriptures. "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God."
@@coryalbright9798 thats an incredibly illogical statement. Its a systematical theology based purely on methodical studies. To say it's not the gospel means that Calvin, Spurgeon, Luther, Augustin, Aquinas, Piper, MacArthur and many others even Matt Chandler have provided false gospels. To say you're either calvinist or arminian does not determine whether or not you believe in the same Jesus, it's not the same comparison as if its the difference between a Christian and a Mormon.
@@ianhastie5785 Spurgeon said "calvinism is the gospel " nothing resembling calvinism can be found in scripture. that's the point I'm trying to make. Like I said, the only way one can come to a calvinist interpretation anywhere in scripture is by negative inferences. The fact that most calvinists believe the L of tulip just shows a ignorance of scripture.
But Jesus said He came to seek and to save that which was lost and Paul said Christ died for the ungodly. If He only died for His sheep, does that mean the only ones that are lost and ungodly are His sheep? 🤔
There is a small problem with that statement. Christ tastes death for everyone and defeats the power of the grave. Everyone ultimately rises from the grave. The atonement is effective for everyone.
@@rocksoli4 false how? We’re all destined to go to hell if he didn’t step in and condemned by default, but graciously calls his sheep and won’t let go of them. Not by our own works at all, but by his loving mercy and grace will not let us go (you included). It leaves no room for those who believe to boast, but it is absolutely humbling knowing that he simply won’t let us go and all for his glory alone.
@@Romans--pe4yh So you are now special because God has randomly chosen you for heaven ....so what about those who are randomly chosen for hell? That's the big question? I believe this leads to pride and complacency. If God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.....Jesus said love your enemies but according to Calvinism in the words of John Calvin "God arranges things by his sovereign council in such a way that individuals are born who are doomed to hell and are to glorify God by their destruction"....there is no love in this misrepresentation brother.
@@rocksoli4 it doesn’t make me special at all because it’s entirely up to him and not me. To those chosen for hell, they are rightfully given over to their lustful passions. It’s not up to us to go out looking for the elect or the nonelect and decide “God hasn’t predestined you for this”. Misuse and a misunderstanding can definitely lead to pride, but a proper understanding is absolutely humbling. Jesus said for us to love our enemies, but that doesn’t contradict with what Calvin said. I’ve been battling with this and picking a side when I’ve avoided it my whole life (even though I’m barely 22), and what made me finally decide was realizing that I was bringing my philosophical thought into the word of God instead of making the word have the last say because I didn’t want predestination to be true because it went against what I thought was the character of God. I then deconstructed and reconstructed with just scripture and in tears, because it went against everything I believed in and realizing that I’m absolutely deserving of nothing other than my own destruction, admitted that certain scripture was there that I had been avoiding because I didn’t want to be wrong and for the longest was unwilling to be real with myself and change my position if the word said otherwise
Romans 9-11 has a very happy ending: "God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all. … From Him, and through Him and to Him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a)
@@n.holt7 ok.. well "calvanism" is just a name.. most people believe it started with John Calvin.. not so. Before him it was martin Luther.. before him it was Agustine. Its reformed theology... people have a problem with the doctrine of predestination because it paints God as being unfair.. but if you believe God is Holy.. then you have to believe hes just. Read Romans 9. Its about God revealing all his atributes. His Holiness as well as his justice. Those whom he has chosen to Grace recive mercy. The rest recieve Justice.
@@kal-elofkrypton8584 You gave the history of Calvinism (which I already knew), but not the definition, nor did you defend anything you said with Scripture. Saying, here read this, isn't demonstrating anything. I have read the book of Romans many times and the word predestination or predestined is not used in Romans 9. Is your definition of Calvinism, predestination? If so, please expound. I have no problem with what Scripture says about God or His predestination. I have never seen it as unfair, nor is that the metric of validity. Furthermore your defense of God's justice is circular. Who receives mercy and who receives justice? Is God not just in giving mercy to whom He will? Is that not what Romans 9 says? There is then no need for God to choose one to give mercy and the other justice, for He is both just and the justifier of those who believe. The Gentiles have received righteousness because they have believed, but Israel stumbled in unbelief. What if God said that He wanted to have mercy upon all? Would you believe Him? Predestination has nothing to do with the mercy/justice dichotomy as far as I am aware. I have never (including Romans 9) found a verse where predestination and mercy/justice appear in the same context.
I know this is a sticky subject for many, but I appreciated the way the late Dr. Sproul broke down 2 Peter 3:8-9 to speak about the "willing" and the "any." I myself have seen where Christians sincerely (because they want the lost to be saved and want to encourage evangelism) quote the last part of 2 Peter 3:9 without the context. As Dr. Sproul rightly pointed out, "any," as well as "all," are indefinite pronouns that must hearken to either another pronoun or a noun. That is grammatical. Many times in scripture the verse itself gives us the indication of who the "any" and "all" are and 2 Peter 3:9 is one of those verses. We see another example of "all" in Romans 3:23 and we know this to mean all of mankind. Yet how do we come to that conclusion. We can hearken back to Romans 3:9, which says, "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin." We see the "all," the indefinite pronoun, hearkens back to both Jews and Gentiles in the same verse, and these two descriptions means every single person because if you're not a Jew, you are a Gentile. Once you read from Romans 3:9 to 3:23, the grammar and context shows the same "all" in 3:23 is the "all" in 3:9. When you follow the nouns or pronouns in 2 Peter 3:1-9, you know that the "all" or "any" pertains to the "us-ward" in verse 9, which is the "beloved" in verse 8, which is the same "beloved" in verse 1, which are believers.
"All" isn't a pronoun, it is an adjective (in Greek). "Any" is a indefinite pronoun which refers back to "us" in the previous statement which is referring to "us" humans, since we know that it is not the saved people who need to repent but the lost world. We can, therefore, conclude both upon God's nature and this text that God is not willing that any (of humanity) should perish but that all come to repentance. Why would the us be believers? Why is He waiting for people who have already repented to repent. That doesn't make sense. This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: that ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days *scoffers,* walking after their own lusts, and *saying, Where is the promise of his coming?* for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this *they willingly are ignorant of,* that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: *whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.* But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should *perish,* but that *all* should come to *repentance.* But the *day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.* Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 2 Peter 3:1-13 The context is that there are scoffers and there is destruction. In the days of Noah there were scoffers and then the world was destroyed by fire and the believers were saved. The point Peter is making is that likewise there are currently scoffers and there will be another worldwide destruction (by fire this time) and the believers will be saved. Peter's audience might say, well the scoffers are laughing at his coming, saying everything is continuing just as it always has. Peter answers this objection by telling us why God hasn't returned yet. He is not willing that any should perish. Now the "beloved" are already safe, the only ones in the text not safe are the scoffers. It is the scoffers, aka humanity, that is being referred to as "us." Peter is using "us" as an all inclusive statement referring to all humanity. It wouldn't make any sense to be referencing already saved people. God doesn't have to be long-suffering toward already repentant people, but He does have to be long-suffering toward humanity. Who does the text say the pershing is for? It is for the ungodly men. The people that God doesn't want to perish is the same, and only, group of people in the text it says are going to perish. Listen to what Peter says again: For this *they* willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, *perished:* but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of *judgment* and *perdition* of *ungodly men.* 2 Peter 3:5-7 Obviously verse 9 is aimed at that group of people because they are the ones who are in danger of pershing. Why would you tell this to believers who are not in danger of this judgement?
@@n.holt7 If you notice, the English translation of the Greek words "any" and "all" are treated as indefinite pronouns because any and all are indefinite pronouns in the English. And you are correct that "any" is an indefinite pronoun hearkening back to "us-ward." And you are also correct that the Greek word for "any" is an adjective. However, there are rules even to Greek language that necessitates that the "any" and "all" in 2 Peter 3:9 would still be considered indefinite pronouns hearkening back to "us-ward." The Greek word for "any" is "tis," which is an indefinite pronoun in the Greek. So for the "all" in the same sentence not referring back to either the "any" or the "us-ward" would make no sense. And the word "pas" actually becomes a pronoun when it is used without a noun in a sentence. So "pas" in this sentence is actually a pronoun. This pronoun lines up with pronoun "any," which hearkens back to "us-ward." "Us-ward" doesn't refer to all humanity in this context. "Us-ward" is a pronoun that must hearken back to the last noun in the sentence. For example, in 2 Peter 3:1, the verse begins with the word "beloved," and the "you" and "your" are pronouns referring back to "beloved." In verse 2 the pronoun "ye" still hearkens back to "beloved," but the pronoun "us" is defined by what follows, "..the apostles of the Lord and Savior" because there is a prepositional word before "us," which is "of." Just in these two verses we can follow the nouns and pronouns and know who we're talking about by following the grammar. When you follow the pronouns all the way to verse 8, Peter begins with "But," a conjunction showing a contrast. What is the contrast? The scoffers mentioned in verses 3-8, who are shown to be willingly ignorant in verse 5. Yet we get the contrast in verse 8, "But, beloved (that refers to believers), be not ignorant of this one thing..." Notice the contrast of the scoffers who are ignorant and the beloved who shouldn't be. So now we know verse 8 is speaking directly to and about the beloved. So when you get to verse 9, notice God "is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward..." Who is that pronoun "us-ward" logically referring back to? The beloved. If "us-ward" was replaced with "unbelievers" or "the lost" or even the "ungodly," then the "any" and "all" would perhaps refer back to all humanity, but you can't grammatically and logically make "us" or "us-ward" mean something different than a pronoun referring back to the original noun in verse 8. Also, notice that the end of verse 9 tells you God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. If the any and all refers to all humanity, then God's revealed will is not being done because some will perish and not all will come to repentance. If you take this on face value, then God can't get His revealed will and has no power for it to come to pass since some perish and not all come to repentance. This doesn't line up with the God who says He purposes something, He declares something, and He brings it to pass (Isaiah 46:9-11 for example). In addition, how can God say He isn't willing (remember, this is an act of God's will) that any should perish, but tells us in verse 7 about the judgment waiting for ungodly men. If God isn't willing for them to perish, is He not powerful enough to prevent that since He is omnipotent? And if "us-ward" is the ungodly, then why isn't He willing to do in verse 9 what He just promised to do in verse 7? The "us-ward," which represents the "beloved," refers to all that would believe; the elect. The elect always includes even those not yet saved. The Bible speaks of believers from the perspective of their position in Christ before they are actually saved. That is the reason Ephesians 1:4 says God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world. For God, it is a done deal before Genesis 1:1 though the actual day of our salvation hasn't occurred yet. That is the reason Jesus could say He has other sheep that He would bring and they would hear His voice in John 10:17. They are already His sheep before He saves them because His sheep hears His voice and they follow Him and He gives them eternal life; no one can pluck them out of His hand (John 10:27-29). That is God's promise; that He will save all those He has chosen. He is so patient through time to save those He have elected. So I respectfully disagree.
My opinion, Peter wrote this with consideration that the "us" are the "believers", the church, the people that he wrote his letter to, not to apply to the whole humankind..... but with fact in mind that within "us", the "believers", the people, the church that he wrote his letter to, there are also unsaved people, like what Jesus explains in the parable of the weeds, where there are weeds among good seeds... we or Peter cannot see or identify the weeds, only God can. that's why Peter wrote "Instead he is patient with you ("believers", with the weeds among good seeds), not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9), because God had known already that among "you", there are also weeds predestined to be burned and perished.... compare with Eze 18:23 "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?" Some of the wicked will die anyway without repentance...
If your conclusion is limited atonement then you are using worldly wisdom. You know what is the deciding factor? If you understood the teaching of Romans at all, there is no way you can come to a conclusion that Christ died only for the elect. Romans 5:18 is clearly tell us , the gift is for all mankind when you read the verse consistently, only when you changed the meaning of the words according to your liking and according to your “theology”, then you know you have to changed many verses to reach your conclusion. You are placing yourself “higher” than God’s Word which God had magnified above all His name (Psalm 138:2). You are the one who decide what the words mean, not God. If you are interested in what God say, you will not decide the meaning of words but allow God to tell you clearly by His Word. Do you think God has clearly told us His truth? I testify to anyone reading this comment God is very, very clear in His Word when you honor Him above all men! (Here you know what I meant by all men!) He will reveal it by His Spirit to you (1 Corinthians 2:9-11), those who will use their own wisdom to interpret the Bible, beware He taketh the wise in their own craftiness! (1 Corinthians 3:19). Humble yourself to His Word and you will be blessed!
I don't know why SOOOOOOOOO many people misinterpret 2 Peter 3:9. First of all, that verse is not talking about salvation. It is talking about why Christ is delaying His return. He is waiting for all the elect to come into the fold. They are the audience who Peter is addressing in verse nine. Go back and start reading in verse one and you will see what I am talking about. Also a few verses before verse nine God says that the current Earth is being reserved for destruction, as are mockers and scoffers, namely these are from among the Godless group. God is reserving a day of destruction for them. Verse nine is NOT talking about every person who has ever lived or will live. It is referring to God's chosen people, the sheep, the elect, the church. These are different names that the Bible uses to describe them.
Ali Houssney Curiously, often comments relating of the end of days as found in 2 Peter are completely incorrect in that many believe that a judgement day is imminent in this modern age-a concept that mystifies the mind when it is perfectly clear that 2 Peter is saying that such a day will come within the lifetime of the friends, whom Peter the Apostle. wrote to.
See John 1:13-born again by the will of God, not man’s. That sets the table for John 3:16, that is, St. John assumes you’ll have read chp 1 before chp 3 so you have the right reference point.
Maximumbatspeed Faith is not meritorious according to the Word of God. Maybe according to you it is, not not according to the Word of Truth. So your claim holds zero weights and falls to the ground. Foolish argument that’s not grounded in scripture but rather in your man made doctrine. Paul clearly contrasts work with faith in Romans 3&4. Did he not explain it thoroughly enough for you? Should he have perhaps written another chapter on it? ROMANS 3:27,28 27 Where is boasting then? IT IS EXCLUDED. By what law? of works? Nay: but by THE LAW OF FAITH. *********************************** ...According to Romans 3:22 the righteousness of God is upon all them that BELIEVE: ROMANS 3:22 22 Even the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WHICH IS BY FAITH of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that BELIEVE: for there is no difference: **We’re not made righteous first so as to believe. We BELIEVE unto righteousness. *********************************** ...According to Romans 3:28 Paul clearly contracts faith with works (deeds) of the law: ROMANS 3:28 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified BY FAITH WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW. **Paul has concluded that faith is not a work, so why haven’t reformers come to this same conclusion that Paul and us Bible believers have? *********************************** ROMANS 3:31 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW. **When we act in faith according to God’s law and believe of our own freewill and not out of coercion we thereby do not countervail God’s sovereignty we actually FULLFILL IT! WE ESTABLISH IT! ********************************** ...Paul clearly contrasts work with faith and faith NOT being a work in Romans 4:4,5: ROMANS 4:4,5 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of DEBT. 5 But to him that WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. *********************************** ROMANS 11:6 6 And IF BY GRACE, THEN IS IT NO MORE OF WORKS: otherwise grace is no more grace. BUT IF IT BE OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO MORE GRACE: otherwise work is no more work. *********************************** ...According to Romans 4:6 God imputed righteousness WITHOUT WORKS. Faith again is clearly contrasted with NOT being a work: ROMANS 4:6 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom GOD IMPUTETH RIGHTEOUSNESS WITHOUT WORKS, ********************************** ...According to Romans 4:9 FAITH was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness and NOT the other way around: ROMANS 4:9 9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that FAITH WAS RECKONED TO ABRAHAM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
I disagree with this point of reformed theology, but man RC Sproul had such an incredible way of explaining things, truly a man of God. Pleased to know he is with the Lord today!
When we correctly and exegetically interpret 2 Peter 3:9 we see that it is perfectly in line with election and limited atonement. Only when you take it out of context do you create controversy. Context is KEY!!!!
Aaron Pilkey: I so relate to everything you say and how you say it. Please keep up your comments so that truth can be out there for those who are seeking truth. God has given you a gift to teach truth. Thank you, for Jesus sake!
1 Timothy 2:3-6 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
@@aletheia8054 don’t see that in my holy Bible. Humble yourself pick up your cross and preach the gospel to every creature God will none should perish :)
@@christianhalkides5707 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to *US* not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. It literally says *US* right in the sentence. That means his church. The letter was written to a church. And it says come to repentance. You got a pay attention when you read.
Limited atonement (both in effect and scope) taught by limited theologians will ALWAYS lead to limited assurance, a limited faith, a limited courage, a limited love (both for God and others), and ultimately a limited God worthy of limited worship. Only a universal, unlimited, all encompassing, unconquering, all victorious atonement for all (both in scope and effect) will lead to full assurance, full hope, full trust, in an unlimited, all surpassing God worthy of ALL worship. 😊
I love R.C. Sproul so I ask these two questions with the utmost respect: 1. Did he cite any scripture that establishes the doctrine of limited atonement? Or did he only try to explain away a passage (2 Peter 3) that may contradict the doctrine? 2. Did he give any reason or benefit for the doctrine of limited atonement?
If atonement was for those that perish than that would mean atonment is insucicant. Christ died for their sin yet they perish anyway? Then what did Christ die for?! John 10:15 Just as the Father knows me and I the Father, I lay down my life for the sheep.. The sheep are those elected for salvation before the earth was created.
innerfire89 If the atonement is sufficient for all what did it do? It’s sufficient but it doesn’t do anything? It has to do something in order for it to be sufficient. It perpetuates God the father’s wrath to judge the world and he does not judge the world. Jesus judges the world John 522
They reject the gospel and prefere darkness duh. Jesus said men WILL not come into the light last thier sins be reproved. He said THEY by choice preferred darkness..... what does that tell you.
innerfire89, those that perish are unbelievers as the bible promised eternal security only to believers in Christ. The scope of Christ's atonement is unlimited but it's application is only to them that believed (1Tim4:10). Please quote to me the verse as you claimed "the sheep are those elected for savation before the earth was created. Thanks.
JNC Apologetics Group Ez 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Jhn 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
@@boavintura yes all men have not faith in Christ Jesus lol God did not make them not out their trust and belief in Christ Jesus as lord and savior.. God is not the one blinding their eyes from the truth. Repent from horrid cursed doctrine pray without ceasing and preach Christ crucified . Do you really know Jesus and the heart and will of God for all men ? God doesn’t not find any pleasure in the deaths of the wicked / unrepentant Do not condemn people in your hearts. John 3:17 “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that HE gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, that WHOSOEVER, BELIEVETH in Him, should not perish, but HAVE EVER LASTING LIFE. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that BELIEVETH on me HATH EVERLASTING LIFE. First John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. First John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world. But, only those who believe are saved and can never be condemned again. John 3:18. Faith cometh by hearing, hearing by the word of God. First Timothy 2:4 Who would have all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. The gospel. First Corinthians 15:1-4.
and “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. John 14:23 it's not just believing, just as Abraham didn't just believe God, he trusted him and took action according to the promise. It's not an academic approval but an active trust. Satan believes in Jesus more than most people.. it goes to show that saying "I believe" isn't the whole story.
Satan and demons can not be saved. Only people. Romans 4:2 If Abraham were justified by works, he would have something to glory in, but not before God. Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. We have to be as righteous as God to go to heaven, and no one is. Romans 4:5-8 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him who justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Faith alone apart from works. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth righteousness apart from works. Blessed is the man whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. The second we trust Jesus and receive His free gift of eternal life, all our sin debt is paid in full, past, present, and future sins, and we can no longer be condemned. John 3:18. Romans six:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Ephesians 1:13-14 Our guarantee of eternal life by faith alone in His gospel. First Corinthians 15:1-4. Romans 11:six. The gift of God is eternal life. Not a reward for good behavior. Ephesians 2:8-9. Faith alone. John six:40 and John six:29. First John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye MAY KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. John 1:12 and Romans 1:sixteen.
Your English reading of John 3:16 is bogus. The verse says nothing about who is capable of having saving faith in God. A better translation is "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that all those believing in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Every single other verse you cited is based on a misunderstanding of the original meaning or is taken out of context. Do you actually think Calvinists haven't followed these passages in their theology?
KJV. For God so loved the world, everybody, that He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, that WHOSOEVER, believeth in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. John six:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE. Present tense; First Corinthians 1:21 For after that, in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them THAT BELIEVE. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace ye are saved, through FAITH, when we believe, and that not of yourselves, we did nothing for it, it is the GIFT of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. You can not boast in free. Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, First Corinthians 15:3-4 in whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed by that Holy Spirit of promise. Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit in whom ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. What if after we have believed, we never believe it again? Second Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, He abideth faithful, He can not deny himself. Once we believe on Jesus alone apart from any works, we are given eternal life as a free gift. Romans six:23 For the wages of sin is death, and we all sin, First John 1:8, and we all die, but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE. It is a gift because no sinner can do one thing to save himself. First John 5-13 These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. John 3:18 Believers are no longer condemned to hell, but unbelievers are condemned already because they have not believed. Romans 4:5-8
@@jimkraft9445 Congrats, you added even more scriptures that don’t go against Calvinism in any way shape or form. Anybody who stills thinks John 3:16 proves Calvinism wrong hasn’t gotten off the first rung of this debate.
This was so helpful. Unfortunately *some of* our non Calvinist brethren want to ignore the distinctions being made in favor of straw-men arguments namely accusing the Calvinist of limiting the "value" or "sufficiency" of the atonement rather than the "application" of the atonement. If we are talking about value per 1 John 2:2 then certainly that atonement is sufficient and universal in its reach to all. But if we are talking about application then said atonement is limited to *those who believe.* And those who believe are those who are elect. And not a bit if Christ's blood is wasted.
But to be fair, as Sproul points out, the term "limited" is misleading. I think *definite atonement* is far more helpful and perhaps would help in the debate.
They are not brothers but unbelievers. They have a puppet God and go by satans lies in the garden to eve. This is not Disney world and YHVH is not mickey mouse you need to wake up to reality
@@Repentee I agree there is no debate But hope for young believers to be faced with the realization either they chose what their evil inclinations choose.. Or they were chosen Imagine these evil self righteous hypocrites who claim they are NOT chosen by God ha holy cow they are revealing a terrible thing about themselves God deosnt need evil humans to claim him tolerant of their evil and thereby justin their eyes 😨
This is what happens when one has too much time and scriptures, countless Christian books and articles in which to draw and or make comment on. Can you imagine the beauty of of the early Church having maybe one copy of one of the Gospels, and maybe a letter or two. To recite, read, reread, preach, teach and discuss. The Bible as we have it today is both a curse and a blessing. A blessing because it is the Revelation of God. It is just amazing. But also a curse because we re all over the place. What is the primary purpose of a Christian? To be like Jesus. Today's Church in America is engaged in every thing but Christlikeness. Ohh there's a lot of name dropping, but to Take Up the Cross? No one dares, certainly not with any regularity. Redundance is Key to Transformation. This has been my experience; Church and endless Bible studies on every subject but Christlikeness. A wise man once told me; "You can fill to capacity a Christian conference room when the subject is God, and or 'Self.' But, a conference to focus on Christ Alone, watch the exits.
Why not read the Imitation of Christ by Thomas Kempis? I think you would like Seneca (if you don't mind bits of pagantry), the Tony Evans bible commentary, and the NIV Life Application Study Bible. Hope this helps
The atonement is limited but contrary to what R C Sproul teaches it is freely offered to all, both believer and u believer without distinction. Christ said, “Come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest” Matthew 11:28. This invitation is not only for believers but also to unbelievers, the forgiveness of sins is offered without conditions to all men. The offer of the gospel is unconditional, the forgiveness of sins does not require faith from man nor repentance, on the contrary it creates faith. The forgiveness of sin is the object of faith and precedes faith, it is freely proclaimed to all with no strings attached, Revelation 22:17 “Let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely”. Christ is offered freely to all men, and it is this offer that creates faith, but faith follows the offer of the gospel it does not precede it. The good news of the gospel is proclaimed to all men unconditionally (neither faith nor repentance are required for salvation when the gospel is proclaimed, the gospel is an announcement that Christ has fully satisfied for the entire human race, both elect and reprobate. Anything less is no gospel at all, but a conditional covenant, instead of proclaiming the unconditional love for you.
@@tonydardi332 World has many meanings, could be referring to the world system, could be referring to not just the Jews but the world which includes Gentiles. Scripture is harmonious. Unless you want to throw away the doctrine of hell and all the scriptures that go with it then you have to interpret that differently.
@@intothekey Well it’s obviously not talking about the world system. That makes no sense. Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world system? World does have a few different meanings in scripture like Satan is the god of this “world” but in this case world 🌎 means the whole world 🌎 and everyone in it. It’s obvious.. Besides that the Bible says that God commands all men everywhere to repent. That’s every man in the world.
@@tonydardi332 It's take away the "sin", not "sins", of the world. And Jesus does take away the sin of the world. It is the restitution of all things. A new heaven and a new earth. But those who do not belong to Christ will have no part in it. They are cast into the Lake of Fire, the Second Death. The end result is a world without sin. Revelation 21 Stop spreading false doctrine. You have to read the Bible in context, letting scripture interpret scripture.
Pradip Limbu Well it makes more sense than saying that God desires all to be saved yet in his omnipotence He is unable to save men. You need to study the subjunctive mood in grammar. For example, “If you repent you will be saved.” But evangelical repentance is not forthcoming from man. The only kind that man is naturally capable of if repenting because he got caught. Evangelical repentance is the sorrow for having offended God. That kind is conferred by the Holy Spirit on whom the Father has elected to receive it. Note, in the letters in the New Testament many of the letters are addressed to the “elect” not to the world in general.
With respect to the late RC SProul - there were many things he said directly relating to the Gospel of Jesus Christ that I agree with. Death Burial and The Resurrection of Christ - that is the Gospel. The emphasis in this video is too much on the election. My opinion on predestination is that only God knows predestination, while man tends to make up more definitions.
Because I do not have a deep grasp of scripture, having not been to a Bible university, I find Calvinism extremely hard to grasp. In fact it robs me of my faith.
I agree with God only knowing predestination...if we knew it, we would skip to the good parts...sometimes it takes the valleys to reach the peaks...it would almost be like knowing when Messiah is coming back, only the Father knows that as well...as it should be...
Reformed theology is easily understood, but our reformed doctrine humbles us and calls us to stop where we cannot extend into the realm of eternity and simply trust God and be amazed by His sovereignty. He’s too big for us to comprehend, His truths lead the human mind to paradoxes we cannot untie, and so we’re forced to harden our hearts or set ourselves low and worship Him for His unfathomable glory.
Did Jesus atone for the sins of all mankind? Well scripture shows otherwise: 1 Samuel 3:12-14 - “In that day I will carry out against Eli all that I have spoken concerning his house, from beginning to end. “For I have told him that I am about to judge his house forever for the iniquity which he knew, because his sons brought a curse on themselves and he did not rebuke them. “Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.” So no atonement for Eli's house.
Darryl D. your contention is an error because you wrongly equates the atonement of Christ for all mankind against the atonement for Eli's house alone. Both are distinct from each other thus it cannot be the same.
I love Dr Sproul, but none of his arguments prove that Calvinism or limited atonement is true. I would happily embrace Calvinism if it was true, but I'm just not convinced.
You are a self righteous unbeliever. You do not and cannot love Sproul fake. No one needs you or your embrace belief or whatever when you get off the childish narcissist throne of your life you will have a chance
i'm studied this extensively but it is not according to Scripture and sure not from the reformation. 1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. I made a website www.maartenluther.com/
Aarong Uchoi since you are convinced about limited atonement. Please quote me a verse that stated Christ only die for the elect. Please respond to prove that what you have been convinced about is really true. I bet you can't find that verse, please go ahead !!!
@@93556108 See my post one month ago Marius VanWoerden 1 month ago 1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. Limited atonement is not Scriptural. It is a claim that our Lord Jesus has failed and His scarifies insufficient for the Sins of the world. Those that claim Scripture for Limited atonement would prove the Bible to be in contradiction.
@@MariusVanWoerden I am fully agreeable to you and I too believed in unlimited atonement. Do you know John Calvin himself dosen't believed in the limited atonement neither did the 4-pointers of Calvinism? It certainly contradicted what Jesus stated what He will do after the cross; ". (Joh 12:32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me". Did He meant He came only to save the elect? Far from it, Jesus came to save the lost sinners in the world (Rom3:9-10). Calvinists stated, if Jesus died for everyone then all should be saved. Their argument undermines the role of faith by denying the need for any condition in salvation. Salvation was not purchased to be given to anyone absolutely, whether they believed or not, but only upon the exercise of faith. God has designed that salvation comes with a condition that must be fulfilled on the part of the one who receives salvation. It is no injustice if salvation is not given to anyone who fails to fulfill God’s condition, even though payment for their sins has been made. If payment for sins has been made and one may obtain forgiveness on condition of faith in Christ and one does not fulfill the condition, there is no injustice with God if He extracts payment in the form of eternal suffering on the part of the sinner. Thus we need to consider the scope of the sacrifice of Christ is extended to all men, however the "effect" of the sacrifice is only efficacious or effectual to those who receive the merit of that One sacrifice by faith.
@@93556108 Calvin never and non of the reformers believed that Christ died only for the sins of the Elect. However only those that are elect to be saved will hear the Gospel and be convicted by the Holy Spirit these two belong together.
The bible says we are saved by the grace of god through faith in Jesus. The grace of God comes by having faith. You are saying that the faith comes from the grace. SO which is correct. If God has allready chosen all those going to heaven, then the gospel would never Have to be preached. I believe that the gospel, as the word of God is powerful enough that anyone who hears it can feel the call of God on his heart. The potential is there. Some people have stone hearts. There has to either be an answer to the contradiction I posted at the start of this rambling of mine or else there truly is a contradiction in the bible. .
You have certainly not watched the video which has made it clear that Gospel needs to be universally preached and shared to all people yet only those who are God's elect (only God knows whom He saves) will accept it while others downright reject it (reason why Christians are persecuted)...We preach the Gospel whithout having the knowledge of whether or not God will save that person...
@@losnfjslefn8857 God does not cater to non believers as if they are the righteous and he owes them something hahahaha You must be asking for yourself as you disbelieve and refuse to repent your blood is on your own head What crazy incompetent blind logic of narcissistic evil
So the understanding of the passage hinges on how we understand "willing" and "any" in the passage. If God is not willing that any should perish, and still we know some perish, it must mean God´s will is not always done. That is why we pray for God´s will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. There are many passages that speak of God´s will, and many claim He wants us to repent and live, and He does not want us to sin and rebel. Now, if the only deciding factor in if we are saved is that God has to regenerate us, that if He does not we will not believe, and if He does we will, this means only God decides this, right? So He is the only one deciding it, and still He says He wants all to be saved, He says He wants the sinner to repent and live, but He does not cause it? In what way is this not making God a liar? "Any" is rather clear as well; He does not want any to perish but all to be saved, it´s a general statement of intent for everyone. God is love, and He loves all, even His enemies. So anyone that thinks God has a will that includes that a sinner stay in sin and be destroyed in judgement, listen to what God Himself thinks of that idea: " ‘As I live!’ declares the Lord GOD, ‘I take no pleasure at all in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live." (Eze 33:11) "As I live" is an emphatic statement, God is declaring that as sure as He lives, the Living God, just as sure is the fact that He does not want the wicked to perish but to turn. Calvinism is an affront to God, the ideas presented is repulsive to His Holy character.
My question is if the "any" means the elect, and the elect are walking in faith in which is to serve and teach others, then what about all the people we minister to. Cause i agree there is a certain group of chosen elect signed sealed delivered, but i also emphasize strongly that why would he tell us to preach to others and serve others if they cannot be saved? My consensus on this is that the true elect, like Moses, or maybe behind the scenes like annanias, or Barnabus, whom layed hands on and ministered to Saul, purpose is to bring forth the choice spoken of by Joshua to the masses that many will be saved by believing on Jesus Christ...
It took me a few years to understand it but I was in my early teens. My dad, being an Independent Baptist pastor when I was younger taught us at home besides at church. He went through his Bible School back in the 60's when I was born. As his school taught Sufficient Atonement as it was Sufficient for everyone but only the Elect will be chosen. It is sufficient for the Lost but the lost are blind and cannot accept it anyway. Is Sufficient Atonement walking the fence between Limited Atonement and Free Will? To me, there is no Free Will at all but the lost are preached to as it is offered to him knowing the lost WILL NOT accept it. Did Christ die for the lost? If Christ died for the lost then why are they going to hell? The sins of the lost are not paid for by the cross. I was always taught that Christ fulfilled the law. A perfect Lamb was required to take the place of sin. Whose sin? Only the Elect.
C.H SPURGEON ON PREDESTINATION: Do not imagine for an instant that I pretend to be able thoroughly to elucidate the great mysteries of predestination. There are some men who claim to know all about the matter. They twist it round their fingers as easily as if it were an everyday thing; but depend upon it, he who thinks he knows all about this mystery, knows but very little. It is but the shallowness of his mind that permits him to see the bottom of his knowledge. He who dives deep, finds that there is, in the lowest depth to which he can attain, a deeper depth still. The fact is, that the great questions about man's responsibility, free-will, and predestination, have been fought over, and over, and over again, and have been answered in ten thousand different ways; and the result has been, that we know just as much about the matter as when we first began. The combatants have thrown dust into each other's eyes, and have hindered each other from seeing; and then they have concluded, that because they put other people's eyes out, they could therefore see. - C.H. Spurgeon.
First John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world. First Timothy 2:4 Who would have all men be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. And perseverance of the saints is not bibliical. When we believe we can no longer be condemned. John 3:18 When we believe the gospel, (First Corinthians 15:3-4) we are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30. We are not given the faith to believe. Eternal life is the gift when we believe. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Since it is a free gift, we have nothing go boast in. Jesus paid it all and we paid 0. We can only be saved by what Jesus did plus nothing. You can not add law/works to grace. Romans 11:6 And Romans 4:5-8. And this. Galatians 1:6-9 Let them be accursed. There is no other gospel. First Corinthians 15:3-4 That Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures, that He was buried and rose again on the third day, according to the scriptures. John 6:40 And this is the will of Him who sent me, that all that seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day. First John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERANL LIFE. Not because you were chosen but because you believed. When we believe we are chosen, but we are not chosen to believe.
jim kraft, this is my version of limited atonement of Christ. The sacrifice of Christ is only limited to anyone who satisfy the condition of salvation that is only to those who believe or those who express their trust in Christ. Thus it is limited to that group whether you call them the elect, the sheep, the believer, the Church etc. Thus the offer is universal and the potential is unlimited but the application is particular, it is specific only to them that believed.(1Tim4:10).
Like to get any thoughts about a possible misquote of scripture he uses from 2 Peter 3:9. (See time stamp 20:18) . He says the scripture says “us”, but the Greek actually says you. Only the KJV uses “us”. He seems to be basing his argument on this one word. I am sure he did research on this verse in the Greek before using it, right?
I don’t think it teaches universalism because we know all people will not accept Christ. I don’t think that is the point. The point is simply that “ God is not willing.” Question/ Is God willing that people perish? If he is, is this not a contradiction of his character. I do not know who said this but I believe it addresses the problem. When we arrive at the gate into heaven it will say on the outside of the gate, “Whosoever may come” and on the other side of the gate it will say, “Predestined from the foundation of the world.” Is God a God of exclusivity meaning only the elect are allowed into heaven. Yes! Based upon what? Based upon those who have embraced the fact that they are sinners in need of a saviour Jesus Christ. Yes these are the elect. Those that chose not to admit they are sinners who need redemption will not be allowed into heaven not because God did not choose them but because they chose not to believe that Christ died and rose again for them IF they accept, repent, embrace, turn from the ways of the world and turn toward Christ and ask for forgiveness for their sins.
If you believe Jesus accomplishes the exact same for ALL, and nothing more, this would mean that people, who end up in heaven, are not there because of what Jesus did... because... he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for those who end up in hell! This would mean that those who are in heaven are there because of something other than what Jesus accomplished! If this is true then Jesus does not save anyone! This would mean you are saved by “something other than Jesus”... if you end up in heaven!
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. We are saved by grace through faith. If you don't believe, then Jesus' blood will not cover you.
@@losnfjslefn8857 The problem I see is that if “faith” is not a part of the package of “Grace” and instead “faith” is *turned into* a *requirement first* to obtain “the package of Grace” then Grace is no longer Grace but a *wage earned* that has been simply renamed “grace”… It seems as though this is what you have done in your post by making “confess and belief” the necessary requirement to earn “the wage” of Gods “grace”… Then you further clarify that “Jesus’ blood *will not* cover you” unless “you” first meet the requirement of “belief”… this is indistinguishable from the “works righteousness” system. Calvinists believe that “faith/belief” is *part of the package* of Grace that God “works in” the Elect at God’s determined time… because of this we Calvinists are the only ones who can say that God Saves by Grace *Alone* and actually justify it. “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, *both to will and to work* for his good pleasure.” (Php 2:12-13) The “faith” part of the package of God’s Grace is the working in you “both to will and to work for his good pleasure”. Your “faith” is a work of God’s Grace… not a “requirement” necessary to earn God’s Grace. The Bible further justifies that “faith” is a part of the package by stating… “For by grace you have been saved through faith. *And this is not your own doing;* (it is a work of God in you) *it is the gift of God,* (faith is part of the package) *not a result of works,* (you can not earn the package) *so that no one may boast.”* (Eph 2:8-9) You are saved by God’s working of faith in you ALONE!
@@CCShorts @CCShorts So you believe that faith is a work? Where in the bible does it say faith is a work? So based on your interpretation this is how Eph 2:8-9 would be read: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of -works- *faith* , lest any man should boast. Man obviously does not save himself, God does. God's grace is most definitely a gift, as is salvation. These gifts are given exclusively to those who have faith, who believe (who have faith in Jesus Christ, to be more exact). Now, is faith a gift? Yes, but the better question is, is faith an *EXCLUSIVE* gift? No, it's not. Romans 12:3 KJV For I say, through the grace given unto me, *to every man that is among you* (he's talking to the Gentiles that were "grafted in"), not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as _God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith_ . The Gentiles Paul is talking to here are told not to boast (he warned them against boasting, thinking highly of themselves in previous chapters too), because everyone has been given a measure of faith.
I grew up with Limited Atonement being taught, but over the years find it harder and harder to believe/support. I'm not really sure what Sproul's saying through most of this, it just never connected any dots for me. Is there anyone else that does a good job of explaining this?
@@casenswartz7278 I do remember him saying that, but it is only a part of atonement. I would say that most Christians, including non-Calvinists, believe that only some will be saved. The issue I struggle with is whether the Holy Spirit works in us to help us choose to believe or if we are made to believe because we were chosen. At least that is what I think the argument is about.
I wonder why God felt it necessary to tell us about predestination and election. Might have been easier to keep that hidden. So it would be interesting to know His reasoning behind telling us this.
Notice what he said , the “us” is the believer, so he is saying , God is long suffering to the believer not willing that any believer should perish but that the believer (elect) should all come to repentance. Something is very wrong here , if Peter is referring to the elect here , why is he speaking of them perishing. According to Reformed teaching the elect will never perish. What lengths some will go to make a non-Calvinist verse into one. Read verses 10-15 to get the fuller context of Peter v 10 speaks of the final burning of the earth etc . V 11 warns to be holy in light of this. V 12 look for the day of God. V 13 His promise of new heavens and new earth. V 14 be found in peace, without spot, and blameless. V 15 now back to “ And account that the long suffering of our Lord is salvation…. From Peter’s time to the very end , He is not willing that any perish but is long suffering. “Any” also means “whosoever” Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say come. And let him that hearth say come. And let him that is athirst come . And whosoever will let him take of the water of life freely.
First of all almost All of the early church fathers Rejected Limited Atonement for many great reasons.Second of all there are no scriptures that say God elects people for Salvation before the world began.in fact many scripture teach that Christ died for All mankind,if they Repent as God and Jesus commands.in fact Jesus pleads with many and Pharseees to turn to Him. the Spirit says Come ,come and drink of the water of life freely!
Bob Free You obviously haven’t studied much scripture and in particular Ephesians. You also do not know much about church history. Gottschalk was condemned by the Papacy in the 9th century for teaching that scripture taught limited atonement.
I greatly appreciate this resource and the teachings of R.C. Sproul. They have been a great tool in my pursuits of Christ's teachings. I am curious though how one might understand 1 John 2:2 in light of definite atonement? That Christ's atoning sacrifice was for our sins, but not only our but the whole worlds sins. Maybe this is summed up in "sufficient for all, but effective to the elect", but if anyone could help expound upon this verse it would be much appreciated.
I think it’s referring to not just the Jews , but Jew and Gentiles. At babel when God divided the nations he basically divorced himself from humanity and let them be, and His portion was Jacob which eventually became the nation of Israel .After his resurrection Jesus inherited all the nations and all authority was given to him by the Father. At Pentecost Babel is being reversed,notice The Spirit enables people to understand tongues,At babel they were confused.Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world not just the nation of Israel. If it actually means every single person then there will be people in hell that Were atoned for. I don’t know if this will help or make it worse lol.
To those like me who have had their eyes opened to Reformed Theology but have been attending a non reformed church: Are you going to leave your current church and look for a Reformed one or stay at your current one and be a light there?
You don't know about yourself only your Creator knows you best.Who knows wether you can repent? Only God knows,He gives His people the repentant hearts
Most Calvinists would interpret Romans 5:18 as follows: 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men (all mankind) to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men (the elect) unto justification of life. Otherwise, it will not fit into their limited atonement theory. For those (Calvinists) who are really taking God's Word seriously, you will have to ask yourself, "Did I changed the meaning of words or no?" and then put away your presupposition and read these verses again: John 3:16, John 1:29, John 4:42, John 6:33, John 6:51, John 12:31-33, John 12:46-47, Acts 17:30-31, Romans 5:18, Romans 11:13-15, Romans 11:32, 2 Corinthians 5:14-15, 19, Ephesians 3:8-9, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 1 Timothy 4:10, Titus 2:11, Hebrews 2:9, 2 Peter 2:1, 15, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:14 etc,. If you take God's Word seriously, there is simply no possibility that you change the meaning of God's Word according to your thought and theology. In another words, many are reading into God's Word, forcing their own theology into the words which clearly tell us the atonement is universal (this is not Universalism). There is simply no possibility for the truth seekers who are serious in following God in His Word to interpret His word wrongly, as He is guiding us into ALL His truth ( John 16:13)
Like Wigglesworth said the elect are those who chose to serve God. They're elected and they accepted office. The rest never had a chance because they refused to accept God's terms and life. You can't have it both ways. Salvation by faith through grace is the free gift. Tulip only works as long as salvation isn't neglected nor refused. Salvation is life changing. Not one person ever was saved that wasn't willing to be.
@@Wgaither1 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2.2 There's no repeatable hermeneutical method you can use to make this mean anything other then what it says. LA proves the calvinist does not know what atonement does in relation to salvation.
@@Wgaither1 notice not just world, but WHOLE world. This can only mean EVERYONE. You must have an authority outside of scripture to interpret this in any other way. In calvinism Jesus is the propitiation for a small minority so why would God inspire John to write WHOLE WORLD? How else coukd God have said it if He meant the whole world? Your denying scripture in favor of man's traditions. Calvinism is just a bunch of cleverly worded philosophical arguments for why scripture isn't true.
What if we put a timeline on sovereign “election” & “saved by faith”: Can’t it be that God used is sovereignty to “elect” up until before the death of Christ because atonement was not in place; and after the death of Christ with atonement completed is when we are saved by our decision of faith.
1920s You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Romans 11:19-21
1920s its a warning for us that just as the previous branches were broken off because of unbelief, we too will be if we stop living in repentance. Stop living in arrogance and worrying about arminian theology and instead make sure you repent.
1920s that’s good to hear. If you are struggling with assurance I would point you to trust the work of God recorded in the scriptures. Read through the scriptures and focus on what God has done. Too many people open the Bible with a what must I do? Attitude instead of a what has God done for me? approach. If you believe and are baptized you “will be”saved. Assurance is found in what God has done for us.
CHRIST DIED OR ALL SIN PERIOD...“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9 NIV)
In natural life there has to be the shedding of blood (menses) before physical life is POSSIBLE, but human life doesn’t ACTUALLY begin until a certain act of human will takes place. In the same way, I believe, Christ’s shed blood makes spiritual life POSSIBLE (born again) but it takes an act of our will (faith, belief) to accept this gift of God (grace) and apply it to our life to receive the forgiveness of our sins and now begin our new ETERNAL life which can never be taken away from us because HE is able!
@@englandshope689 How foolish? How hard is to understand that salvation is appropriated by faith and applied by God? We do not save ourselves by faith, that is the oldest straw man in the Calvinist's book. Faith is what God requires us to do before He does 100% of the saving.
@@n.holt7 God requires absolute perfect obedience to His Torah Which requires the nature only one man ever had. You havent even gotten to the right door man glorifier
@@iacoponefurio1915 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. I Corinthians 1:21 God saves those who believe, not those who keep the Torah. What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. Romans 9:30-32 The Gentiles attained righteousness by faith, while Israel did not because they saught righteousness by the Law.
If limited atonement is true ,why then in the Great White Throne jugdement unbelievers are judged by their works and not by their sins. The work good work use in place of the perfect work of Christ on the Cross.
Ignoring John 3:16, Scripture says Christ died for the ungodly and that Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost. I guess that means that the only people who are lost and ungodly are those God gave to Jesus 🤔
@@hijohojo2868 wrong. Jesus said "all must repent". That is a human response, isn't it? Are you saying we sit back and don't need to repent, believe or follow Jesus' commandments?
@@rocketsurgeon1746 we see that God gives repentance as a gift. It is THEN used. Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. 2 Tim 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them REPENTANCE to the acknowledging of the truth; Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give REPENTANCE to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. We see repentance Is GIVEN to us. We then utilize that gift because it is our desire to turn from sin
@@hijohojo2868 repenting to God and away from sin is something we do be cause of a choice He gives us. Read ezekiel 33 and john 3. It spells out we must do it. None of your verses , when read in context, change God's command that all should repent.
@@rocketsurgeon1746 All are commanded to repent. When read in context, we find Not everyone is even able to repent. It is a gift from God. 2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that CANNOT CEASE FROM SIN; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Repentance is commanded by all.but only given to the elect. So when God sends man to hell, he is justified because they didn't obey the command of repentance
I still wrestle with certain points of both calvinism and arminianism. There are points on both sides that are correct, and i have come to the conclusion that our inferior brains just cant comprehend why some things are the way they are. What seems complicated to us is simple to God and one day we will understand it all. I believe in the complete sovereignty of the triune God. I certainly believe in Perseverance of the Saints as it says in John 10 28-29 [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. That clearly states once you have received the free gift of God by grace through faith (Eph 2 8-9) that no one can pluck you from his hand. I also understand that in Ephisians 2:1 it states we are dead in our trespasses, and if your dead you need to be brought to life "spiritually" and only God can do that, and how in John 6:44 it states that no one can come to me unless the father draw him so it is an act of God. Then i read verses like Psalm 81 8-14 Hear me, my people, and I will warn you- if you would only listen to me, Israel! 9 You shall have no foreign god among you; you shall not worship any god other than me. 10 I am the Lord your God, who brought you up out of Egypt. Open wide your mouth and I will fill it. 11 “But my people would not listen to me; Israel would not submit to me. 12 So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts to follow their own devices. 13 “If my people would only listen to me, if Israel would only follow my ways, 14 how quickly I would subdue their enemies and turn my hand against their foes! Now i dont know please mistake me if im taking that out of context but that sure sounds like God giving his people the freedom to choose whether to follow him or not. Or how our Lord says in Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Honestly its all so confusing and like i said we will all come to the full understanding after this life of sactification we live hopefully in complete submission and servitude to Jesus Christ. There are solid points on both sides and i agree with certain points on either but if anyone could help me and give me some clarity that would be great.
"not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." (2 Pet. 3.9) This verse doesn't make sense in calvinism because it says "should reach repentance" not "will reach repentance."
A clear one sided Calvinist approach. It is hard for anyone to split between “several” wills of God. Not sure why you are so obsessed with affirming God’s sovereignty. Irrespective of our affirmation God is sovereign!!
Here’s where I disagree with Mr. Sproul. In 2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.” Peter is writing to Christians (who are already saved)! So then, logically, why would Peter admonish already saved Christians that (they) may need to repent (in a salvaic way) so that they may not perish? Makes no sense. Clearly, Peter is talking about those who are still unsaved and have not yet accepted Christ as their Savior. John 3:16 (whosoever).
@@alexkelley6064 Peter is addressing Christians, but he is not referring to them. He is speaking in general about the lost, the unsaved who are perishing, who haven’t yet come to repentance. Christians don’t and cannot (perish) in the judgement. Salvation is a one-time event. You cannot lose your salvation or (perish) in Hell if you’re a true Christian. So it doesn’t make any logical sense to assume Peter was directing his statements as if it would pertain to Christians. Not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.
Here's the beautiful truth that both Calvinists and Arminians are missing: "We [elect] are preparing now to rule and reign with Him in the coming ages (Eph. 2:7, 2 Tim. 2:12, Rev. 20:6), to govern five or ten cities (Luke 19:17,19), to sit on thrones governing the tribes of Israel (Matt. 19:28; Luke 22:30), even to rule over all He has (Luke 12:43-44). Our Lord is preparing leaders for that time ... we [elect] are the firstfruits [2 Thess. 2:13, Jam. 1:18, Rev. 14:4-5] -- the priests and kings who will judge the world and intercede for the ungodly (lost) in this age and the ages to come. ... God does not merely settle for the firstfruits. They are but a pledge for the whole." -- Gerry Beauchemin, _Hope Beyond Hell,_ chapter 5, *"Purpose of Election"* section
That’s a tough one. Of course God could elect to hate Esau and love Jacob as He wished. But isn’t this one specific case? ‘God is not willing that any should perrish but that ALL should come to repentance’ of course means ‘all people’. Not some preselected elect and lucky group. Otherwise it’d be useless bothering to preach the Gospel to ALL the world.
It is not useless to preach the gospel to all the world because the Lord has lost sheep throughout the world who need to hear His voice (the gospel) and come to Him ( be saved). You are saved by grace, by faith in Jesus Christ and that faith is not your own, it is a gift from God. Only the elect are given the faith to believe and be saved. Many are called but few are chosen. The Lord Jesus Christ died for His elect.
When God said "Jacob I have loved and Esau I hated" that is something that was said hundreds, maybe thousands of years after both Esau and Jacob are dead. That's not something He said of the twins when they were born. When God chose Jacob, it was not to the neglect of others. Jacob was chosen to carry on the seed that would be a blessing to the world.
Even Calvin himself didn't believe in Limited Atonement! 1 John 2:2 could not be clearer! "And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." What part of this verse do you not understand?
@@alexkelley6064 Yes indeed. Even though it's not at all what it says in the Greek. The word for Gentiles or nations is "ethnos." But instead the word "cosmos" is used.
Jesus Christ did die for everyone, every human being. The scripture said so, if you do not believe the scripture, then don't claim "Glory to God alone". Sadly, even great teacher like RC Sproul falls for this man-made theory which changes every critical word of God which tell us the truth. The clearest is Romans 5:18 which tell us the free gift is for all mankind: Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. "Sufficient for all, efficient for the elect" does not teach us limited atonement. "Sufficient for all" means nothing if Jesus did not die for all. We the believers are secured in our salvation because God's Word said so, we do not have to rely on men-glorifying "Salvation logic" to feel secure. A good reason why Jesus Christ must die for all: God's faithfulness in His promise of eternal life to Adam who represented all mankind. If you reject the representative principle, then you have a greater problem! From the teaching of the scripture, it is not atonement which make the difference between the elect and non-elect, it is the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ which makes us, the elect difference from the reprobate. Do you believe Total Depravity? If so, all men are fallible, only the scripture is infallible! Five solas? Or glory of men in their words? Have no confidence in men (Psalm 146:3)!
i personally think this statement Jesus made in (john6;37) should end this nonsense of limited atonement. (ALL THAT THE FATHER GAVE ME SHALL COME TO ME; AND HIM THAT COMES I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT.)
...so what happens to those whom the FATHER does NOT give to Jesus???? *_John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day_*
@@kevinrtres amen kevin., However he is asking about those whom the Father has not sent to jesus, well my friend if you read carefully it's written (John6;37) if they seek him he will in no wise cast them out, now if they Reject him, the WRATH OF GOD already abides in them.
1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. There is nothing showing that John Calvin or Martin Luther believed the doctrine of Limited Atonement. It sure has nothing of it in his commentaries and a full discussion of the scope of the atonement is not found in Calvin’s writings. It was a counter reaction on the Synod of Dordrecht against the Five articles of the Remonstrants [Arminius] 60 year after John Calvin had passed away. Calvin sure believed that the wrath of God came on Christ for the sins of the whole world which is Biblical. The belief of limited atonement is unbiblical, however minor and hypothetical. We find support that John Calvin did not concern himself with Thoughts of Limited Atonement in some of his commentaries. BY JOHN CALVIN “Also we ought to have good care of those that have been redeemed with the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. If we see souls which have been so precious to God go to perdition, and we make nothing of it, that is to despise the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.” [Sermon on Ephesians 5:11-14] “The four reasons, whereby Paul doth carefully prick forward the pastors to do their duty diligently, because the Lord hath given no small pledge of His love toward the Church in shedding His own blood for it. Whereby it appeared how precious it is to him; and surely there is nothing which ought more vehemently to urge pastors to do their duty joyfully, than if they consider that the price of the blood of Christ is committed to them. For hereupon it followeth, that unless they take pains in the Church, the lost souls are not only imputed to them, but they be also guilty of sacrilege, because they have profaned the holy blood of the Son of God, and have made the redemption gotten by him to be of none effect, so much as in them lieth. And this is a most cruel offence, if, through our sluggishness, the death of Christ do not only become vile or base, but the fruit thereof be also abolished and perish ...” [Commentary on Acts 20:28] “He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God’s benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him.” [Commentary on Romans 5:18] “True it is that the effect of His death comes not to the whole world. Nevertheless, forasmuch as it is not in us to discern between the righteous and the sinners that go to destruction, but that Jesus Christ has suffered His death and passion as well for them as for us, therefore it behoves us to labour to bring every man to salvation, that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ may be available to them ...” [Sermon CXVI on the Book of Job (31:29-32)] “The word many is not put definitely for a fixed number, but for a large number; for he contrasts himself with all others. And in this sense it is used in Romans 5:15, where Paul does not speak of any part of men, but embraces the whole human race.” [Commentary on Matthew 20:28] “For he intended expressly to state [in John 3:16] that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favour of God, YET HE SHOWS HIMSELF TO BE RECONCILED TO THE WHOLE WORLD, when he invites all men without exception to faith in Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.” (Commentary on the Gospel of John)
"...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Romans 8 : 9 The elect are those who have been saved and given the Spirit. The unsaved are none of his. The atonement is like the serpent on the stick. You had to look at it to be healed.
My brain is exploding!! I just came out of years in a church that, yes taught the Word, BUT was in lots of error concerning signs and wonders, gifts, word of faith etc. We starting moving to more fundamental teachings, and then I find this beautiful man. I also found John Mc Arthur, and Voddie. So thankful for solid teachers. However I can barely grasp this new teaching which is obviously completely opposite what I learned. I believe it but wow I will have to listen to this and the other ones 20 more times to digest this. I love it and it will not stop me from sharing the gospel which I always have. But this is sooo comforting. He is sovereign and I love that so much. Fear of the Lord is leveled up big time hearing this.. lol God bless
John Macarthur is part dispensationalism theology and that's Bogus Arminianism. Carminiasm. Part Calvin and a bunch of Arminianism. 🤮
You are describing my very experience of just the last 2-3 months!!! Coming to the knowledge of the true Gospel, the true doctrine of salvation, the holiness of God, the Sovereignty of God, sanctification and the fear of God, after 17 years of charismatic teachings…
@@Ruby-22 justified by faith alone. Repentance is believing then Christ gives us His Faith. Galatians 3 22 KJV. Of is the preposition Paul used not in. Of means belonging to. 👍
@@Ruby-22 that is terrific news. Glad to hear your joy. ☮👍
Same here.. they're such a blessings!
These videos are the true blessing. R.C. Sproul is one of my favourite pastors-teachers. But we definitely are Christians firstly and then Calvinists. Knowledge is so important, but debating with the Arminian bretheren with love is more important. Greetings from Ukraine (Evangelical Reformed Presbyterian church of Odesa).
Clueless fake liae
You aren't anything but hoping for a reward
I hope you are ok over there. Just saw Odessa mentioned.
😢r guy😂iiji II 🎉I io🎉🎉
Even in death God is using Dr. Sproul to bring people to Him. What a gift.
lol !
This video is full of extra biblical propositions and negative inferences to prove calvinism. It also shows rc and anybody else who affirms LA doesn't even know what the atonement does and doesn't do.
Seems more like a curse to me. God probably lets people like him have a legacy just to play around with all those who are foolish enough to actually listen to him.
It's very sad that you believe that let God be true and every man a liar as it is written that you might be justified in your sayings and that you might overcome when you are judged. the gospel that saves is 1corinthians 15:1-4 and it's for every creature and it's according to the scriptures not Calvinism or reformed theology Gods word doesn't need to be reformed and grace that is forced on anyone so called irresistible grace is not grace at all and to limit what Jesus has finished on the cross by dying for sin period not just individual sins of some people is disgraceful and keep in mind hell was not even prepared for men but for the devil and his angels men go there because they choose to reject the Son of the living God he came to his own and his own received him not a gift must be received John 1:12 not forced on anyone men are without excuse because God did give us hope by sending Jesus but again a gift must be received it's not Gods fault that some choose to believe and others don't how dare anyone put that on the loving God.
@@kevinramsey2636 That may be the longest sentence ever, taking so many words to show that you do not understand, or do not believe, the Scriptures. "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God."
There's no confusion at all. Jesus died for the whole world, that Whosoever believes in Jesus should be saved. John 3:16
World= kosmos in greek
You are confused about knowing anything since you dont haha
The world is - the elect
Looking forward to the day that God calls me home and I get to join in eternal worship of Him, alongside RC.
i hope hes there...he'll need correcting first
@@englandshope689 what do you mean by that? Is that an accusation to him providing a false gospel?
@@ianhastie5785 calvinism is not the gospel. Calvinism has to be negatively infered onto scripture.
@@coryalbright9798 thats an incredibly illogical statement. Its a systematical theology based purely on methodical studies. To say it's not the gospel means that Calvin, Spurgeon, Luther, Augustin, Aquinas, Piper, MacArthur and many others even Matt Chandler have provided false gospels.
To say you're either calvinist or arminian does not determine whether or not you believe in the same Jesus, it's not the same comparison as if its the difference between a Christian and a Mormon.
@@ianhastie5785 Spurgeon said "calvinism is the gospel " nothing resembling calvinism can be found in scripture. that's the point I'm trying to make.
Like I said, the only way one can come to a calvinist interpretation anywhere in scripture is by negative inferences. The fact that most calvinists believe the L of tulip just shows a ignorance of scripture.
Amen! God did not, die for everyone, but indeed, His sheep!
Amen!
But Jesus said He came to seek and to save that which was lost and Paul said Christ died for the ungodly. If He only died for His sheep, does that mean the only ones that are lost and ungodly are His sheep? 🤔
Jesus declared "the limitation of salvation" when He declared that He was "The way, The Truth and the Life."
True, as far as that goes.
yeah that doesn't really have to do with the topic necessarily
He also said He that does not believe is condemned ALREADY
fantastic so clearly taught correctly by our dear Brother in Glory RC Sproul thank you Lord for Him
The atonement is effective only to the one who believes
Well, yeah. Why would it be effective to anyone else?
There is a small problem with that statement. Christ tastes death for everyone and defeats the power of the grave. Everyone ultimately rises from the grave. The atonement is effective for everyone.
@@vitaignis5594are you saying that everyone will be raised?
Every Knee Will Bow and Every Tongue Will Confess that Jesus Christ is Lord Hallelujah God Bless ✌
They haven't read that bit yet 🙄😅
The gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.
Indeed! Though only those God has chosen will believe. That is why there are many who until they die will not believe.
@@angeladyson7367 So God chooses those who are to go to hell .....this is false teaching
@@rocksoli4 false how? We’re all destined to go to hell if he didn’t step in and condemned by default, but graciously calls his sheep and won’t let go of them. Not by our own works at all, but by his loving mercy and grace will not let us go (you included). It leaves no room for those who believe to boast, but it is absolutely humbling knowing that he simply won’t let us go and all for his glory alone.
@@Romans--pe4yh So you are now special because God has randomly chosen you for heaven ....so what about those who are randomly chosen for hell? That's the big question? I believe this leads to pride and complacency. If God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.....Jesus said love your enemies but according to Calvinism in the words of John Calvin "God arranges things by his sovereign council in such a way that individuals are born who are doomed to hell and are to glorify God by their destruction"....there is no love in this misrepresentation brother.
@@rocksoli4 it doesn’t make me special at all because it’s entirely up to him and not me. To those chosen for hell, they are rightfully given over to their lustful passions. It’s not up to us to go out looking for the elect or the nonelect and decide “God hasn’t predestined you for this”. Misuse and a misunderstanding can definitely lead to pride, but a proper understanding is absolutely humbling. Jesus said for us to love our enemies, but that doesn’t contradict with what Calvin said.
I’ve been battling with this and picking a side when I’ve avoided it my whole life (even though I’m barely 22), and what made me finally decide was realizing that I was bringing my philosophical thought into the word of God instead of making the word have the last say because I didn’t want predestination to be true because it went against what I thought was the character of God. I then deconstructed and reconstructed with just scripture and in tears, because it went against everything I believed in and realizing that I’m absolutely deserving of nothing other than my own destruction, admitted that certain scripture was there that I had been avoiding because I didn’t want to be wrong and for the longest was unwilling to be real with myself and change my position if the word said otherwise
Romans 9-11 has a very happy ending:
"God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all. … From Him, and through Him and to Him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a)
The doctrine of calvanisim is ingrained throughout the entire word of God.. from beginning to end.
Can you empirically demonstrate your claim?
@@n.holt7 sure... where would you like to begin?
@@kal-elofkrypton8584 Well, let's start with the definition of Calvinism. Define it however you desire and then demonstrate that it is Scriptural.
@@n.holt7 ok.. well "calvanism" is just a name.. most people believe it started with John Calvin.. not so. Before him it was martin Luther.. before him it was Agustine. Its reformed theology... people have a problem with the doctrine of predestination because it paints God as being unfair.. but if you believe God is Holy.. then you have to believe hes just. Read Romans 9. Its about God revealing all his atributes. His Holiness as well as his justice. Those whom he has chosen to Grace recive mercy. The rest recieve Justice.
@@kal-elofkrypton8584 You gave the history of Calvinism (which I already knew), but not the definition, nor did you defend anything you said with Scripture. Saying, here read this, isn't demonstrating anything. I have read the book of Romans many times and the word predestination or predestined is not used in Romans 9. Is your definition of Calvinism, predestination? If so, please expound.
I have no problem with what Scripture says about God or His predestination. I have never seen it as unfair, nor is that the metric of validity. Furthermore your defense of God's justice is circular.
Who receives mercy and who receives justice? Is God not just in giving mercy to whom He will? Is that not what Romans 9 says? There is then no need for God to choose one to give mercy and the other justice, for He is both just and the justifier of those who believe. The Gentiles have received righteousness because they have believed, but Israel stumbled in unbelief.
What if God said that He wanted to have mercy upon all? Would you believe Him?
Predestination has nothing to do with the mercy/justice dichotomy as far as I am aware. I have never (including Romans 9) found a verse where predestination and mercy/justice appear in the same context.
When he mentions the “any” its abundantly clear he’s regarding those who have recieved Christ in the very first 2 verses of 2 Peter chapter 1
2 Corinthians 12:9 - And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you
The
I know this is a sticky subject for many, but I appreciated the way the late Dr. Sproul broke down 2 Peter 3:8-9 to speak about the "willing" and the "any." I myself have seen where Christians sincerely (because they want the lost to be saved and want to encourage evangelism) quote the last part of 2 Peter 3:9 without the context. As Dr. Sproul rightly pointed out, "any," as well as "all," are indefinite pronouns that must hearken to either another pronoun or a noun. That is grammatical. Many times in scripture the verse itself gives us the indication of who the "any" and "all" are and 2 Peter 3:9 is one of those verses.
We see another example of "all" in Romans 3:23 and we know this to mean all of mankind. Yet how do we come to that conclusion. We can hearken back to Romans 3:9, which says, "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin." We see the "all," the indefinite pronoun, hearkens back to both Jews and Gentiles in the same verse, and these two descriptions means every single person because if you're not a Jew, you are a Gentile. Once you read from Romans 3:9 to 3:23, the grammar and context shows the same "all" in 3:23 is the "all" in 3:9. When you follow the nouns or pronouns in 2 Peter 3:1-9, you know that the "all" or "any" pertains to the "us-ward" in verse 9, which is the "beloved" in verse 8, which is the same "beloved" in verse 1, which are believers.
"All" isn't a pronoun, it is an adjective (in Greek).
"Any" is a indefinite pronoun which refers back to "us" in the previous statement which is referring to "us" humans, since we know that it is not the saved people who need to repent but the lost world. We can, therefore, conclude both upon God's nature and this text that God is not willing that any (of humanity) should perish but that all come to repentance.
Why would the us be believers? Why is He waiting for people who have already repented to repent. That doesn't make sense.
This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: that ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days *scoffers,* walking after their own lusts, and *saying, Where is the promise of his coming?* for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this *they willingly are ignorant of,* that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: *whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.* But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should *perish,* but that *all* should come to *repentance.* But the *day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.* Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2 Peter 3:1-13
The context is that there are scoffers and there is destruction. In the days of Noah there were scoffers and then the world was destroyed by fire and the believers were saved. The point Peter is making is that likewise there are currently scoffers and there will be another worldwide destruction (by fire this time) and the believers will be saved. Peter's audience might say, well the scoffers are laughing at his coming, saying everything is continuing just as it always has. Peter answers this objection by telling us why God hasn't returned yet. He is not willing that any should perish. Now the "beloved" are already safe, the only ones in the text not safe are the scoffers. It is the scoffers, aka humanity, that is being referred to as "us." Peter is using "us" as an all inclusive statement referring to all humanity. It wouldn't make any sense to be referencing already saved people. God doesn't have to be long-suffering toward already repentant people, but He does have to be long-suffering toward humanity. Who does the text say the pershing is for? It is for the ungodly men. The people that God doesn't want to perish is the same, and only, group of people in the text it says are going to perish. Listen to what Peter says again:
For this *they* willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, *perished:* but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of *judgment* and *perdition* of *ungodly men.*
2 Peter 3:5-7
Obviously verse 9 is aimed at that group of people because they are the ones who are in danger of pershing. Why would you tell this to believers who are not in danger of this judgement?
@@n.holt7 If you notice, the English translation of the Greek words "any" and "all" are treated as indefinite pronouns because any and all are indefinite pronouns in the English. And you are correct that "any" is an indefinite pronoun hearkening back to "us-ward." And you are also correct that the Greek word for "any" is an adjective. However, there are rules even to Greek language that necessitates that the "any" and "all" in 2 Peter 3:9 would still be considered indefinite pronouns hearkening back to "us-ward."
The Greek word for "any" is "tis," which is an indefinite pronoun in the Greek. So for the "all" in the same sentence not referring back to either the "any" or the "us-ward" would make no sense. And the word "pas" actually becomes a pronoun when it is used without a noun in a sentence. So "pas" in this sentence is actually a pronoun. This pronoun lines up with pronoun "any," which hearkens back to "us-ward."
"Us-ward" doesn't refer to all humanity in this context. "Us-ward" is a pronoun that must hearken back to the last noun in the sentence. For example, in 2 Peter 3:1, the verse begins with the word "beloved," and the "you" and "your" are pronouns referring back to "beloved." In verse 2 the pronoun "ye" still hearkens back to "beloved," but the pronoun "us" is defined by what follows, "..the apostles of the Lord and Savior" because there is a prepositional word before "us," which is "of." Just in these two verses we can follow the nouns and pronouns and know who we're talking about by following the grammar.
When you follow the pronouns all the way to verse 8, Peter begins with "But," a conjunction showing a contrast. What is the contrast? The scoffers mentioned in verses 3-8, who are shown to be willingly ignorant in verse 5. Yet we get the contrast in verse 8, "But, beloved (that refers to believers), be not ignorant of this one thing..." Notice the contrast of the scoffers who are ignorant and the beloved who shouldn't be. So now we know verse 8 is speaking directly to and about the beloved. So when you get to verse 9, notice God "is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward..." Who is that pronoun "us-ward" logically referring back to? The beloved. If "us-ward" was replaced with "unbelievers" or "the lost" or even the "ungodly," then the "any" and "all" would perhaps refer back to all humanity, but you can't grammatically and logically make "us" or "us-ward" mean something different than a pronoun referring back to the original noun in verse 8.
Also, notice that the end of verse 9 tells you God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. If the any and all refers to all humanity, then God's revealed will is not being done because some will perish and not all will come to repentance. If you take this on face value, then God can't get His revealed will and has no power for it to come to pass since some perish and not all come to repentance. This doesn't line up with the God who says He purposes something, He declares something, and He brings it to pass (Isaiah 46:9-11 for example). In addition, how can God say He isn't willing (remember, this is an act of God's will) that any should perish, but tells us in verse 7 about the judgment waiting for ungodly men. If God isn't willing for them to perish, is He not powerful enough to prevent that since He is omnipotent? And if "us-ward" is the ungodly, then why isn't He willing to do in verse 9 what He just promised to do in verse 7?
The "us-ward," which represents the "beloved," refers to all that would believe; the elect. The elect always includes even those not yet saved. The Bible speaks of believers from the perspective of their position in Christ before they are actually saved. That is the reason Ephesians 1:4 says God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world. For God, it is a done deal before Genesis 1:1 though the actual day of our salvation hasn't occurred yet. That is the reason Jesus could say He has other sheep that He would bring and they would hear His voice in John 10:17. They are already His sheep before He saves them because His sheep hears His voice and they follow Him and He gives them eternal life; no one can pluck them out of His hand (John 10:27-29). That is God's promise; that He will save all those He has chosen. He is so patient through time to save those He have elected. So I respectfully disagree.
My opinion, Peter wrote this with consideration that the "us" are the "believers", the church, the people that he wrote his letter to, not to apply to the whole humankind..... but with fact in mind that within "us", the "believers", the people, the church that he wrote his letter to, there are also unsaved people, like what Jesus explains in the parable of the weeds, where there are weeds among good seeds... we or Peter cannot see or identify the weeds, only God can. that's why Peter wrote "Instead he is patient with you ("believers", with the weeds among good seeds), not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9), because God had known already that among "you", there are also weeds predestined to be burned and perished.... compare with Eze 18:23 "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?" Some of the wicked will die anyway without repentance...
@@n.holt7 I enjoyed that, thanks for taking the time to look at the fuller context.
If your conclusion is limited atonement then you are using worldly wisdom. You know what is the deciding factor? If you understood the teaching of Romans at all, there is no way you can come to a conclusion that Christ died only for the elect. Romans 5:18 is clearly tell us , the gift is for all mankind when you read the verse consistently, only when you changed the meaning of the words according to your liking and according to your “theology”, then you know you have to changed many verses to reach your conclusion. You are placing yourself “higher” than God’s Word which God had magnified above all His name (Psalm 138:2). You are the one who decide what the words mean, not God. If you are interested in what God say, you will not decide the meaning of words but allow God to tell you clearly by His Word. Do you think God has clearly told us His truth? I testify to anyone reading this comment God is very, very clear in His Word when you honor Him above all men! (Here you know what I meant by all men!) He will reveal it by His Spirit to you (1 Corinthians 2:9-11), those who will use their own wisdom to interpret the Bible, beware He taketh the wise in their own craftiness! (1 Corinthians 3:19). Humble yourself to His Word and you will be blessed!
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2
Yes the whole world of - Jews - gentles - Gods people are all over the world!
@@Mike12349 Not only "God's people", the whole world, that's what the verse says.
@@tommysuriel yes that’s what it say the whole world? Jew gentle male female? Jesus is the only saviour!
@@Mike12349 Yep, Amen
If he is the sacrifice of the sin of all the world why isn't anyone saved ?
I don't know why SOOOOOOOOO many people misinterpret 2 Peter 3:9. First of all, that verse is not talking about salvation. It is talking about why Christ is delaying His return. He is waiting for all the elect to come into the fold. They are the audience who Peter is addressing in verse nine. Go back and start reading in verse one and you will see what I am talking about. Also a few verses before verse nine God says that the current Earth is being reserved for destruction, as are mockers and scoffers, namely these are from among the Godless group. God is reserving a day of destruction for them. Verse nine is NOT talking about every person who has ever lived or will live. It is referring to God's chosen people, the sheep, the elect, the church. These are different names that the Bible uses to describe them.
Ali Houssney
Curiously, often comments relating of the end of days as found in 2 Peter are completely incorrect in that many believe that a judgement day is imminent in this modern age-a concept that mystifies the mind when it is perfectly clear that 2 Peter is saying that such a day will come within the lifetime of the friends, whom Peter the Apostle. wrote to.
Salvation is for everyone who believes!!!!
Yes, only those who God has drawn to Himself will believe.
See John 1:13-born again by the will of God, not man’s. That sets the table for John 3:16, that is, St. John assumes you’ll have read chp 1 before chp 3 so you have the right reference point.
Ken Zeier No one is debating that we’re born by the will of God and not man.
100% God.
0% man.
AFTER you freely believe.
@@apilkey that would be a work on your part. Hmmm
Maximumbatspeed Faith is not meritorious according to the Word of God.
Maybe according to you it is, not not according to the Word of Truth.
So your claim holds zero weights and falls to the ground.
Foolish argument that’s not grounded in scripture but rather in your man made doctrine.
Paul clearly contrasts work with faith in Romans 3&4.
Did he not explain it thoroughly enough for you?
Should he have perhaps written another chapter on it?
ROMANS 3:27,28
27 Where is boasting then? IT IS EXCLUDED. By what law? of works? Nay: but by THE LAW OF FAITH.
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...According to Romans 3:22 the righteousness of God is upon all them that BELIEVE:
ROMANS 3:22
22 Even the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WHICH IS BY FAITH of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that BELIEVE: for there is no difference:
**We’re not made righteous first so as to believe.
We BELIEVE unto righteousness.
***********************************
...According to Romans 3:28 Paul clearly contracts faith with works (deeds) of the law:
ROMANS 3:28
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified BY FAITH WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW.
**Paul has concluded that faith is not a work, so why haven’t reformers come to this same conclusion that Paul and us Bible believers have?
***********************************
ROMANS 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.
**When we act in faith according to God’s law and believe of our own freewill and not out of coercion we thereby do not countervail God’s sovereignty we actually FULLFILL IT!
WE ESTABLISH IT!
**********************************
...Paul clearly contrasts work with faith and faith NOT being a work in Romans 4:4,5:
ROMANS 4:4,5
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of DEBT.
5 But to him that WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
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ROMANS 11:6
6 And IF BY GRACE, THEN IS IT NO MORE OF WORKS: otherwise grace is no more grace. BUT IF IT BE OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO MORE GRACE: otherwise work is no more work.
***********************************
...According to Romans 4:6 God imputed righteousness WITHOUT WORKS.
Faith again is clearly contrasted with NOT being a work:
ROMANS 4:6
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom GOD IMPUTETH RIGHTEOUSNESS WITHOUT WORKS,
**********************************
...According to Romans 4:9 FAITH was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness and NOT the other way around:
ROMANS 4:9
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that FAITH WAS RECKONED TO ABRAHAM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
1 John 2:2, KJV: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
I disagree with this point of reformed theology, but man RC Sproul had such an incredible way of explaining things, truly a man of God. Pleased to know he is with the Lord today!
You don't know anything obviously lol
@@uncasunga1800 ?
When we correctly and exegetically interpret 2 Peter 3:9 we see that it is perfectly in line with election and limited atonement. Only when you take it out of context do you create controversy. Context is KEY!!!!
Aaron Pilkey: I so relate to everything you say and how you say it. Please keep up your comments so that truth can be out there for those who are seeking truth. God has given you a gift to teach truth. Thank you, for Jesus sake!
Amen. The man centered doctrine of calvinism needs exposed
Brilliant. "Us" the elect is whom Peter is referring. RC Sproul 👍
1 Timothy 2:3-6
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
All the ones in his church
@@aletheia8054 don’t see that in my holy Bible.
Humble yourself pick up your cross and preach the gospel to every creature
God will none should perish :)
@@aletheia8054 and that’s not in the context. Just saying. You are being mislead.
@@christianhalkides5707 God doesn’t want anyone in his church to perish. God sends a bunch of people to hell.
Yes, that’s in the Bible
@@christianhalkides5707 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to *US* not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
It literally says *US* right in the sentence. That means his church. The letter was written to a church.
And it says come to repentance. You got a pay attention when you read.
"All" means all, until a Calvinist doesn't want it to
Space cadet all have turned aside. Arminian atheists reject the Bibles true All's
You are evil and won't admit it
ALL means the elect the chosen ones the predestined the saints
@@davidochiengbuoga7165 exactly that's everyone ALL MANKIND in the end... The scripture couldn't be any clearer on this point....
@@Tommythecat007 That is not true,ALL is for specific persons, the sons of the promise.
Limited atonement (both in effect and scope) taught by limited theologians will ALWAYS lead to limited assurance, a limited faith, a limited courage, a limited love (both for God and others), and ultimately a limited God worthy of limited worship.
Only a universal, unlimited, all encompassing, unconquering, all victorious atonement for all (both in scope and effect) will lead to full assurance, full hope, full trust, in an unlimited, all surpassing God worthy of ALL worship. 😊
You should watch his whole series. The Bible has these truths in it as uncomfortable as it seem.
Had to watch this one more than once.
I love R.C. Sproul so I ask these two questions with the utmost respect: 1. Did he cite any scripture that establishes the doctrine of limited atonement? Or did he only try to explain away a passage (2 Peter 3) that may contradict the doctrine?
2. Did he give any reason or benefit for the doctrine of limited atonement?
To use the biblical language is “Unlimited atonement, particular redemption”. To use the word “atonement” is to caused confusion and misunderstanding.
If atonement was for those that perish than that would mean atonment is insucicant. Christ died for their sin yet they perish anyway? Then what did Christ die for?! John 10:15 Just as the Father knows me and I the Father, I lay down my life for the sheep.. The sheep are those elected for salvation before the earth was created.
innerfire89 Jesus died to propitiate God the father’s wrath for the sins of the whole world first John two verse two
innerfire89 If the atonement is sufficient for all what did it do? It’s sufficient but it doesn’t do anything? It has to do something in order for it to be sufficient. It perpetuates God the father’s wrath to judge the world and he does not judge the world. Jesus judges the world John 522
They reject the gospel and prefere darkness duh. Jesus said men WILL not come into the light last thier sins be reproved. He said THEY by choice preferred darkness..... what does that tell you.
innerfire89, those that perish are unbelievers as the bible promised eternal security only to believers in Christ. The scope of Christ's atonement is unlimited but it's application is only to them that believed (1Tim4:10).
Please quote to me the verse as you claimed "the sheep are those elected for savation before the earth was created. Thanks.
Christ died to make people savable and many did.
Does Sproul's interpretation create a class of RPC's who are not just disposable but disposed of with eternal torture?
Whoa...Well done sir
JNC Apologetics Group
Ez 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Jhn 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Therefore it is there for anyone to receive everyone has faith what matters is where do we put that faith !
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
(2Th 3:2 KJV)
.....ALL MEN GAVE NOT FAITH
Exactly.
@@boavintura yes all men have not faith in Christ Jesus lol God did not make them not out their trust and belief in Christ Jesus as lord and savior.. God is not the one blinding their eyes from the truth.
Repent from horrid cursed doctrine pray without ceasing and preach Christ crucified .
Do you really know Jesus and the heart and will of God for all men ?
God doesn’t not find any pleasure in the deaths of the wicked / unrepentant
Do not condemn people in your hearts.
John 3:17
“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that HE gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, that WHOSOEVER, BELIEVETH in Him, should not perish, but HAVE EVER LASTING LIFE. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that BELIEVETH on me HATH EVERLASTING LIFE.
First John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
First John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world. But, only those who believe are saved and can never be condemned again. John 3:18.
Faith cometh by hearing, hearing by the word of God. First Timothy 2:4 Who would have all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. The gospel. First Corinthians 15:1-4.
and “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. John 14:23 it's not just believing, just as Abraham didn't just believe God, he trusted him and took action according to the promise. It's not an academic approval but an active trust. Satan believes in Jesus more than most people.. it goes to show that saying "I believe" isn't the whole story.
Satan and demons can not be saved. Only people. Romans 4:2 If Abraham were justified by works, he would have something to glory in, but not before God. Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
We have to be as righteous as God to go to heaven, and no one is. Romans 4:5-8 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him who justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Faith alone apart from works. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth righteousness apart from works. Blessed is the man whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
The second we trust Jesus and receive His free gift of eternal life, all our sin debt is paid in full, past, present, and future sins, and we can no longer be condemned. John 3:18.
Romans six:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ephesians 1:13-14 Our guarantee of eternal life by faith alone in His gospel. First Corinthians 15:1-4. Romans 11:six.
The gift of God is eternal life. Not a reward for good behavior. Ephesians 2:8-9. Faith alone. John six:40 and John six:29. First John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye MAY KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. John 1:12 and Romans 1:sixteen.
Your English reading of John 3:16 is bogus. The verse says nothing about who is capable of having saving faith in God. A better translation is "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that all those believing in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Every single other verse you cited is based on a misunderstanding of the original meaning or is taken out of context. Do you actually think Calvinists haven't followed these passages in their theology?
KJV. For God so loved the world, everybody, that He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, that WHOSOEVER, believeth in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. John six:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE. Present tense;
First Corinthians 1:21 For after that, in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them THAT BELIEVE.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace ye are saved, through FAITH, when we believe, and that not of yourselves, we did nothing for it, it is the GIFT of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. You can not boast in free.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, First Corinthians 15:3-4 in whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed by that Holy Spirit of promise. Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit in whom ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
What if after we have believed, we never believe it again? Second Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, He abideth faithful, He can not deny himself. Once we believe on Jesus alone apart from any works, we are given eternal life as a free gift. Romans six:23 For the wages of sin is death, and we all sin, First John 1:8, and we all die, but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE. It is a gift because no sinner can do one thing to save himself.
First John 5-13 These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. John 3:18 Believers are no longer condemned to hell, but unbelievers are condemned already because they have not believed. Romans 4:5-8
@@jimkraft9445 Congrats, you added even more scriptures that don’t go against Calvinism in any way shape or form. Anybody who stills thinks John 3:16 proves Calvinism wrong hasn’t gotten off the first rung of this debate.
This was so helpful. Unfortunately *some of* our non Calvinist brethren want to ignore the distinctions being made in favor of straw-men arguments namely accusing the Calvinist of limiting the "value" or "sufficiency" of the atonement rather than the "application" of the atonement.
If we are talking about value per 1 John 2:2 then certainly that atonement is sufficient and universal in its reach to all. But if we are talking about application then said atonement is limited to *those who believe.* And those who believe are those who are elect. And not a bit if Christ's blood is wasted.
But to be fair, as Sproul points out, the term "limited" is misleading. I think *definite atonement* is far more helpful and perhaps would help in the debate.
They are not brothers but unbelievers. They have a puppet God and go by satans lies in the garden to eve. This is not Disney world and YHVH is not mickey mouse you need to wake up to reality
@@Repentee I agree there is no debate
But hope for young believers to be faced with the realization either they chose what their evil inclinations choose..
Or they were chosen
Imagine these evil self righteous hypocrites who claim they are NOT chosen by God ha holy cow they are revealing a terrible thing about themselves
God deosnt need evil humans to claim him tolerant of their evil and thereby justin their eyes 😨
I think and I believe that the Best way to Exeget this Particular txt is to study the Literary context.
This is what happens when one has too much time and scriptures, countless Christian books and articles in which to draw and or make comment on. Can you imagine the beauty of of the early Church having maybe one copy of one of the Gospels, and maybe a letter or two. To recite, read, reread, preach, teach and discuss. The Bible as we have it today is both a curse and a blessing. A blessing because it is the Revelation of God. It is just amazing. But also a curse because we re all over the place. What is the primary purpose of a Christian? To be like Jesus. Today's Church in America is engaged in every thing but Christlikeness. Ohh there's a lot of name dropping, but to Take Up the Cross? No one dares, certainly not with any regularity. Redundance is Key to Transformation. This has been my experience; Church and endless Bible studies on every subject but Christlikeness. A wise man once told me; "You can fill to capacity a Christian conference room when the subject is God, and or 'Self.' But, a conference to focus on Christ Alone, watch the exits.
You are not smart enough to comprehend just admit it and you have never spent any time on the Bible haha typical self righteous fake
Why not read the Imitation of Christ by Thomas Kempis? I think you would like Seneca (if you don't mind bits of pagantry), the Tony Evans bible commentary, and the NIV Life Application Study Bible. Hope this helps
The atonement is limited but contrary to what R C Sproul teaches it is freely offered to all, both believer and u believer without distinction. Christ said, “Come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest” Matthew 11:28. This invitation is not only for believers but also to unbelievers, the forgiveness of sins is offered without conditions to all men. The offer of the gospel is unconditional, the forgiveness of sins does not require faith from man nor repentance, on the contrary it creates faith. The forgiveness of sin is the object of faith and precedes faith, it is freely proclaimed to all with no strings attached, Revelation 22:17 “Let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely”. Christ is offered freely to all men, and it is this offer that creates faith, but faith follows the offer of the gospel it does not precede it. The good news of the gospel is proclaimed to all men unconditionally (neither faith nor repentance are required for salvation when the gospel is proclaimed, the gospel is an announcement that Christ has fully satisfied for the entire human race, both elect and reprobate. Anything less is no gospel at all, but a conditional covenant, instead of proclaiming the unconditional love for you.
False Gospel but nice try
@@hijohojo2868What is the Gospel?
The reformers didn't believe limited atonement, it wasn't until few hundred years later that this doctrine became popular.
Christ never came with the intention of saving all men without exception. He came to save His peculiar people for His name
Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the WORLD 🌎
@@tonydardi332 World has many meanings, could be referring to the world system, could be referring to not just the Jews but the world which includes Gentiles. Scripture is harmonious. Unless you want to throw away the doctrine of hell and all the scriptures that go with it then you have to interpret that differently.
@@intothekey Well it’s obviously not talking about the world system. That makes no sense. Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world system? World does have a few different meanings in scripture like Satan is the god of this “world” but in this case world 🌎 means the whole world 🌎 and everyone in it. It’s obvious.. Besides that the Bible says that God commands all men everywhere to repent. That’s every man in the world.
@@tonydardi332 It's take away the "sin", not "sins", of the world. And Jesus does take away the sin of the world. It is the restitution of all things. A new heaven and a new earth. But those who do not belong to Christ will have no part in it. They are cast into the Lake of Fire, the Second Death. The end result is a world without sin. Revelation 21
Stop spreading false doctrine. You have to read the Bible in context, letting scripture interpret scripture.
@@samuelrosenbalm Ok SIN not sins. Exactly what false doctrine am I spreading? Saying Jesus died for every man is false? I don’t understand
It does not make sense, if God desires that no one should perish but determines some people to eternal damnation.
Pradip Limbu
Well it makes more sense than saying that God desires all to be saved yet in his omnipotence He is unable to save men. You need to study the subjunctive mood in grammar. For example, “If you repent you will be saved.” But evangelical repentance is not forthcoming from man. The only kind that man is naturally capable of if repenting because he got caught. Evangelical repentance is the sorrow for having offended God. That kind is conferred by the Holy Spirit on whom the Father has elected to receive it. Note, in the letters in the New Testament many of the letters are addressed to the “elect” not to the world in general.
With respect to the late RC SProul - there were many things he said directly
relating to the Gospel of Jesus Christ that I agree with. Death Burial and
The Resurrection of Christ - that is the Gospel.
The emphasis in this video is too much on the election.
My opinion on predestination is that only God knows predestination, while man
tends to make up more definitions.
Because I do not have a deep grasp of scripture, having not been to a Bible university, I find Calvinism extremely hard to grasp. In fact it robs me of my faith.
Predestination means he has pre determined the destination of the believer. Notice the word believer.
I agree with God only knowing predestination...if we knew it, we would skip to the good parts...sometimes it takes the valleys to reach the peaks...it would almost be like knowing when Messiah is coming back, only the Father knows that as well...as it should be...
If I believe the group in second Peter refers to all humanity then is that a rejection of limited atonement?
You could be a 4 point Calvinist and believe Christ's death was sufficient to save the world but will only save the Elect.
@@BirchKST that's 5 point. 4 point believes Christ died for all. That's different
@@BirchKST The death of Christ isn't sufficient to save ANYONE.
@@thomascommers1242 yes
All actual calvinist believe it is offered for all and they are condemned for rejecting Him
Which all would do
What is the Calvinist interpretation of:
"And I [Jesus], when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." (John 12:32)
I think reform teology is not easy to understand even in my language (Indonesia) more over in English.
Reformed theology is easily understood, but our reformed doctrine humbles us and calls us to stop where we cannot extend into the realm of eternity and simply trust God and be amazed by His sovereignty. He’s too big for us to comprehend, His truths lead the human mind to paradoxes we cannot untie, and so we’re forced to harden our hearts or set ourselves low and worship Him for His unfathomable glory.
Thank you for your clear explanation.
Did Jesus atone for the sins of all mankind?
Well scripture shows otherwise:
1 Samuel 3:12-14 - “In that day I will carry out against Eli all that I have spoken concerning his house, from beginning to end. “For I have told him that I am about to judge his house forever for the iniquity which he knew, because his sons brought a curse on themselves and he did not rebuke them. “Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.”
So no atonement for Eli's house.
Darryl D. your contention is an error because you wrongly equates the atonement of Christ for all mankind against the atonement for Eli's house alone. Both are distinct from each other thus it cannot be the same.
I love Dr Sproul, but none of his arguments prove that Calvinism or limited atonement is true.
I would happily embrace Calvinism if it was true, but I'm just not convinced.
Don't worry your head.. youll believe it sooner or later
You are a self righteous unbeliever. You do not and cannot love Sproul fake. No one needs you or your embrace belief or whatever when you get off the childish narcissist throne of your life you will have a chance
Isaiah 1 Zephaniah 1 :7 And the whole Bible really you have just never read or comprehended any of the Bible.🤷
Amen. I fully convince about limited Atonement.
i'm studied this extensively but it is not according to Scripture and sure not from the reformation. 1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. I made a website www.maartenluther.com/
Aarong Uchoi since you are convinced about limited atonement. Please quote me a verse that stated Christ only die for the elect. Please respond to prove that what you have been convinced about is really true. I bet you can't find that verse, please go ahead !!!
@@93556108 See my post one month ago
Marius VanWoerden
1 month ago
1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. Limited atonement is not Scriptural. It is a claim that our Lord Jesus has failed and His scarifies insufficient for the Sins of the world. Those that claim Scripture for Limited atonement would prove the Bible to be in contradiction.
@@MariusVanWoerden I am fully agreeable to you and I too believed in unlimited atonement. Do you know John Calvin himself dosen't believed in the limited atonement neither did the 4-pointers of Calvinism? It certainly contradicted what Jesus stated what He will do after the cross; ". (Joh 12:32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me". Did He meant He came only to save the elect? Far from it, Jesus came to save the lost sinners in the world (Rom3:9-10).
Calvinists stated, if Jesus died for everyone then all should be saved. Their argument undermines the role of faith by denying the need for any condition in salvation. Salvation was not purchased to be given to anyone absolutely, whether they believed or not, but only upon the exercise of faith. God has designed that salvation comes with a condition that must be fulfilled on the part of the one who receives salvation. It is no injustice if salvation is not given to anyone who fails to fulfill God’s condition, even though payment for their sins has been made. If payment for sins has been made and one may obtain forgiveness on condition of faith in Christ and one does not fulfill the condition, there is no injustice with God if He extracts payment in the form of eternal suffering on the part of the sinner. Thus we need to consider the scope of the sacrifice of Christ is extended to all men, however the "effect" of the sacrifice is only efficacious or effectual to those who receive the merit of that One sacrifice by faith.
@@93556108 Calvin never and non of the reformers believed that Christ died only for the sins of the Elect. However only those that are elect to be saved will hear the Gospel and be convicted by the Holy Spirit these two belong together.
The bible says we are saved by the grace of god through faith in Jesus. The grace of God comes by having faith. You are saying that the faith comes from the grace. SO which is correct. If God has allready chosen all those going to heaven, then the gospel would never Have to be preached. I believe that the gospel, as the word of God is powerful enough that anyone who hears it can feel the call of God on his heart. The potential is there. Some people have stone hearts. There has to either be an answer to the contradiction I posted at the start of this rambling of mine or else there truly is a contradiction in the bible.
.
You have certainly not watched the video which has made it clear that Gospel needs to be universally preached and shared to all people yet only those who are God's elect (only God knows whom He saves) will accept it while others downright reject it (reason why Christians are persecuted)...We preach the Gospel whithout having the knowledge of whether or not God will save that person...
Can I say to non-belivers that Jesus died for you?
I suppose if you do this as a Calvinist, there's a 50/50 chance that's a lie.
@@losnfjslefn8857 God does not cater to non believers as if they are the righteous and he owes them something hahahaha
You must be asking for yourself as you disbelieve and refuse to repent your blood is on your own head
What crazy incompetent blind logic of narcissistic evil
Jesus"I pray for them (believers),I am not praying for the world (unbelievers), but for those you have given me, for they are yours "(John 17:9)
So the understanding of the passage hinges on how we understand "willing" and "any" in the passage.
If God is not willing that any should perish, and still we know some perish, it must mean God´s will is not always done. That is why we pray for God´s will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. There are many passages that speak of God´s will, and many claim He wants us to repent and live, and He does not want us to sin and rebel.
Now, if the only deciding factor in if we are saved is that God has to regenerate us, that if He does not we will not believe, and if He does we will, this means only God decides this, right?
So He is the only one deciding it, and still He says He wants all to be saved, He says He wants the sinner to repent and live, but He does not cause it? In what way is this not making God a liar?
"Any" is rather clear as well; He does not want any to perish but all to be saved, it´s a general statement of intent for everyone. God is love, and He loves all, even His enemies.
So anyone that thinks God has a will that includes that a sinner stay in sin and be destroyed in judgement, listen to what God Himself thinks of that idea:
" ‘As I live!’ declares the Lord GOD, ‘I take no pleasure at all in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live." (Eze 33:11)
"As I live" is an emphatic statement, God is declaring that as sure as He lives, the Living God, just as sure is the fact that He does not want the wicked to perish but to turn.
Calvinism is an affront to God, the ideas presented is repulsive to His Holy character.
Fake
Uneducated unrealistic strawman. Obviously.
Rc hits it out of the ballpark again
No it's a foul
My question is if the "any" means the elect, and the elect are walking in faith in which is to serve and teach others, then what about all the people we minister to. Cause i agree there is a certain group of chosen elect signed sealed delivered, but i also emphasize strongly that why would he tell us to preach to others and serve others if they cannot be saved? My consensus on this is that the true elect, like Moses, or maybe behind the scenes like annanias, or Barnabus, whom layed hands on and ministered to Saul, purpose is to bring forth the choice spoken of by Joshua to the masses that many will be saved by believing on Jesus Christ...
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC thats my thinking on it.
No human knows who the elect are. It is not complicated. You send the message to all and He determined before time who responds. And they do.
It's like first grade logic
We play our part and God does the rest.Take for instance Judas He was chosen to accomplish God's purpose John 6:44-70
I'm not worried about her salvation whichever one you're talking about over the past 22 years. If she ignores the Word and the Spirit who am I?
It took me a few years to understand it but I was in my early teens. My dad, being an Independent Baptist pastor when I was younger taught us at home besides at church. He went through his Bible School back in the 60's when I was born. As his school taught Sufficient Atonement as it was Sufficient for everyone but only the Elect will be chosen. It is sufficient for the Lost but the lost are blind and cannot accept it anyway. Is Sufficient Atonement walking the fence between Limited Atonement and Free Will? To me, there is no Free Will at all but the lost are preached to as it is offered to him knowing the lost WILL NOT accept it. Did Christ die for the lost? If Christ died for the lost then why are they going to hell? The sins of the lost are not paid for by the cross. I was always taught that Christ fulfilled the law. A perfect Lamb was required to take the place of sin. Whose sin? Only the Elect.
C.H SPURGEON ON PREDESTINATION: Do not imagine for an instant that I pretend to be able thoroughly to elucidate the great mysteries of predestination. There are some men who claim to know all about the matter. They twist it round their fingers as easily as if it were an everyday thing; but depend upon it, he who thinks he knows all about this mystery, knows but very little. It is but the shallowness of his mind that permits him to see the bottom of his knowledge. He who dives deep, finds that there is, in the lowest depth to which he can attain, a deeper depth still. The fact is, that the great questions about man's responsibility, free-will, and predestination, have been fought over, and over, and over again, and have been answered in ten thousand different ways; and the result has been, that we know just as much about the matter as when we first began. The combatants have thrown dust into each other's eyes, and have hindered each other from seeing; and then they have concluded, that because they put other people's eyes out, they could therefore see. - C.H. Spurgeon.
First John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world. First Timothy 2:4 Who would have all men be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. And perseverance of the saints is not bibliical. When we believe we can no longer be condemned. John 3:18 When we believe the gospel, (First Corinthians 15:3-4) we are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30. We are not given the faith to believe. Eternal life is the gift when we believe. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Since it is a free gift, we have nothing go boast in. Jesus paid it all and we paid 0. We can only be saved by what Jesus did plus nothing. You can not add law/works to grace. Romans 11:6 And Romans 4:5-8.
And this. Galatians 1:6-9 Let them be accursed. There is no other gospel. First Corinthians 15:3-4 That Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures, that He was buried and rose again on the third day, according to the scriptures.
John 6:40 And this is the will of Him who sent me, that all that seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day. First John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERANL LIFE. Not because you were chosen but because you believed. When we believe we are chosen, but we are not chosen to believe.
jim kraft, this is my version of limited atonement of Christ. The sacrifice of Christ is only limited to anyone who satisfy the condition of salvation that is only to those who believe or those who express their trust in Christ. Thus it is limited to that group whether you call them the elect, the sheep, the believer, the Church etc. Thus the offer is universal and the potential is unlimited but the application is particular, it is specific only to them that believed.(1Tim4:10).
Like to get any thoughts about a possible misquote of scripture he uses from 2 Peter 3:9. (See time stamp 20:18) . He says the scripture says “us”, but the Greek actually says you. Only the KJV uses “us”. He seems to be basing his argument on this one word. I am sure he did research on this verse in the Greek before using it, right?
Probably doesn’t dampen his point but just curious.
I’m not sure why he chose “us” either. But the “you” is very specific in that it’s talking to believers. So that doubly makes his point
I don’t think it teaches universalism because we know all people will not accept Christ. I don’t think that is the point. The point is simply that “ God is not willing.” Question/ Is God willing that people perish? If he is, is this not a contradiction of his character.
I do not know who said this but I believe it addresses the problem. When we arrive at the gate into heaven it will say on the outside of the gate, “Whosoever may come” and on the other side of the gate it will say, “Predestined from the foundation of the world.”
Is God a God of exclusivity meaning only the elect are allowed into heaven. Yes! Based upon what? Based upon those who have embraced the fact that they are sinners in need of a saviour Jesus Christ. Yes these are the elect. Those that chose not to admit they are sinners who need redemption will not be allowed into heaven not because God did not choose them but because they chose not to believe that Christ died and rose again for them IF they accept, repent, embrace, turn from the ways of the world and turn toward Christ and ask for forgiveness for their sins.
If you believe Jesus accomplishes the exact same for ALL, and nothing more, this would mean that people, who end up in heaven, are not there because of what Jesus did... because... he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for those who end up in hell!
This would mean that those who are in heaven are there because of something other than what Jesus accomplished!
If this is true then Jesus does not save anyone! This would mean you are saved by “something other than Jesus”... if you end up in heaven!
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. We are saved by grace through faith.
If you don't believe, then Jesus' blood will not cover you.
@@losnfjslefn8857 The problem I see is that if “faith” is not a part of the package of “Grace” and instead “faith” is *turned into* a *requirement first* to obtain “the package of Grace” then Grace is no longer Grace but a *wage earned* that has been simply renamed “grace”…
It seems as though this is what you have done in your post by making “confess and belief” the necessary requirement to earn “the wage” of Gods “grace”…
Then you further clarify that “Jesus’ blood *will not* cover you” unless “you” first meet the requirement of “belief”… this is indistinguishable from the “works righteousness” system.
Calvinists believe that “faith/belief” is *part of the package* of Grace that God “works in” the Elect at God’s determined time… because of this we Calvinists are the only ones who can say that God Saves by Grace *Alone* and actually justify it.
“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, *both to will and to work* for his good pleasure.” (Php 2:12-13)
The “faith” part of the package of God’s Grace is the working in you “both to will and to work for his good pleasure”. Your “faith” is a work of God’s Grace… not a “requirement” necessary to earn God’s Grace.
The Bible further justifies that “faith” is a part of the package by stating…
“For by grace you have been saved through faith.
*And this is not your own doing;* (it is a work of God in you)
*it is the gift of God,* (faith is part of the package)
*not a result of works,* (you can not earn the package)
*so that no one may boast.”* (Eph 2:8-9)
You are saved by God’s working of faith in you ALONE!
@@CCShorts @CCShorts So you believe that faith is a work? Where in the bible does it say faith is a work? So based on your interpretation this is how Eph 2:8-9 would be read:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of -works- *faith* , lest any man should boast.
Man obviously does not save himself, God does. God's grace is most definitely a gift, as is salvation. These gifts are given exclusively to those who have faith, who believe (who have faith in Jesus Christ, to be more exact). Now, is faith a gift? Yes, but the better question is, is faith an *EXCLUSIVE* gift? No, it's not.
Romans 12:3 KJV
For I say, through the grace given unto me, *to every man that is among you* (he's talking to the Gentiles that were "grafted in"), not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as _God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith_ .
The Gentiles Paul is talking to here are told not to boast (he warned them against boasting, thinking highly of themselves in previous chapters too), because everyone has been given a measure of faith.
I totally agree with you
God is sovereign
He his all powerful
He can make people come to salvation
Yet he chooses to save only a few...
Isn't that a problem
Limited atonement is like God performing a sniper shot knowing exactly what He is doing and not shooting in any direction hoping to hit something.
Wow zoomer kids who think they are the top of the food chain with a zero IQ and critical thinking or logic skills
It never ends with you 😅😅😅
I grew up with Limited Atonement being taught, but over the years find it harder and harder to believe/support. I'm not really sure what Sproul's saying through most of this, it just never connected any dots for me. Is there anyone else that does a good job of explaining this?
The idea is that God actually saved a limited number of people. A better title is particular redemption.
@@casenswartz7278 I do remember him saying that, but it is only a part of atonement. I would say that most Christians, including non-Calvinists, believe that only some will be saved. The issue I struggle with is whether the Holy Spirit works in us to help us choose to believe or if we are made to believe because we were chosen. At least that is what I think the argument is about.
@@johnv3788 The Holy Spirits work I think, John 6 talks about drawing
I wonder why God felt it necessary to tell us about predestination and election. Might have been easier to keep that hidden. So it would be interesting to know His reasoning behind telling us this.
Notice what he said , the “us” is the believer, so he is saying , God is long suffering to the believer not willing that any believer should perish but that the believer (elect) should all come to repentance. Something is very wrong here , if Peter is referring to the elect here , why is he speaking of them perishing. According to Reformed teaching the elect will never perish. What lengths some will go to make a non-Calvinist verse into one.
Read verses 10-15 to get the fuller context of Peter v 10 speaks of the final burning of the earth etc . V 11 warns to be holy in light of this. V 12 look for the day of God. V 13 His promise of new heavens and new earth. V 14 be found in peace, without spot, and blameless. V 15 now back to “ And account that the long suffering of our Lord is salvation…. From Peter’s time to the very end , He is not willing that any perish but is long suffering. “Any” also means “whosoever”
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say come. And let him that hearth say come. And let him that is athirst come . And whosoever will let him take of the water of life freely.
First of all almost All of the early church fathers Rejected Limited Atonement for many great reasons.Second of all there are no scriptures that say God elects people for Salvation before the world began.in fact many scripture teach that Christ died for All mankind,if they Repent as God and Jesus commands.in fact Jesus pleads with many and Pharseees to turn to Him. the Spirit says Come ,come and drink of the water of life freely!
Bob Free
You obviously haven’t studied much scripture and in particular Ephesians. You also do not know much about church history. Gottschalk was condemned by the Papacy in the 9th century for teaching that scripture taught limited atonement.
Bob Have you read the letter of Barnabas? The author seemed to have promoted a type or form of an atonement that was for God's people.
I greatly appreciate this resource and the teachings of R.C. Sproul. They have been a great tool in my pursuits of Christ's teachings. I am curious though how one might understand 1 John 2:2 in light of definite atonement? That Christ's atoning sacrifice was for our sins, but not only our but the whole worlds sins. Maybe this is summed up in "sufficient for all, but effective to the elect", but if anyone could help expound upon this verse it would be much appreciated.
I think it’s referring to not just the Jews , but Jew and Gentiles. At babel when God divided the nations he basically divorced himself from humanity and let them be, and His portion was Jacob which eventually became the nation of Israel .After his resurrection Jesus inherited all the nations and all authority was given to him by the Father. At Pentecost Babel is being reversed,notice The Spirit enables people to understand tongues,At babel they were confused.Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world not just the nation of Israel. If it actually means every single person then there will be people in hell that Were atoned for. I don’t know if this will help or make it worse lol.
@@Terrylb285 This helped a ton, thanks so much for sharing your insight!
To those like me who have had their eyes opened to Reformed Theology but have been attending a non reformed church:
Are you going to leave your current church and look for a Reformed one or stay at your current one and be a light there?
I believe in limited atonement. But not believing in it changes your entire theology. It opens the door to so many things that simply aren’t biblical.
I can’t really repent right now, I’m like Esau. Does that mean Jesus never died for me?
Your repentance is not up to you einstein lol no one is forgiven without repentance no matter what you are irrelevant.
Insincere liar like your father
Total strawman lie indeed. Cynical evil
@@iacoponefurio1915 what do you mean
You don't know about yourself only your Creator knows you best.Who knows wether you can repent? Only God knows,He gives His people the repentant hearts
Most Calvinists would interpret Romans 5:18 as follows:
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men (all mankind) to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men (the elect) unto justification of life.
Otherwise, it will not fit into their limited atonement theory. For those (Calvinists) who are really taking God's Word seriously, you will have to ask yourself, "Did I changed the meaning of words or no?" and then put away your presupposition and read these verses again:
John 3:16, John 1:29, John 4:42, John 6:33, John 6:51, John 12:31-33, John 12:46-47, Acts 17:30-31, Romans 5:18, Romans 11:13-15, Romans 11:32, 2 Corinthians 5:14-15, 19, Ephesians 3:8-9, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 1 Timothy 4:10, Titus 2:11, Hebrews 2:9, 2 Peter 2:1, 15, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:14 etc,.
If you take God's Word seriously, there is simply no possibility that you change the meaning of God's Word according to your thought and theology. In another words, many are reading into God's Word, forcing their own theology into the words which clearly tell us the atonement is universal (this is not Universalism). There is simply no possibility for the truth seekers who are serious in following God in His Word to interpret His word wrongly, as He is guiding us into ALL His truth ( John 16:13)
Good job!
Like Wigglesworth said the elect are those who chose to serve God. They're elected and they accepted office. The rest never had a chance because they refused to accept God's terms and life. You can't have it both ways. Salvation by faith through grace is the free gift. Tulip only works as long as salvation isn't neglected nor refused. Salvation is life changing. Not one person ever was saved that wasn't willing to be.
Well done RC Sproul
Limited atonement contradicts scripture.
@@coryalbright9798 I doubt it
@@Wgaither1 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2.2
There's no repeatable hermeneutical method you can use to make this mean anything other then what it says.
LA proves the calvinist does not know what atonement does in relation to salvation.
@@Wgaither1 notice not just world, but WHOLE world. This can only mean EVERYONE. You must have an authority outside of scripture to interpret this in any other way. In calvinism Jesus is the propitiation for a small minority so why would God inspire John to write WHOLE WORLD? How else coukd God have said it if He meant the whole world? Your denying scripture in favor of man's traditions. Calvinism is just a bunch of cleverly worded philosophical arguments for why scripture isn't true.
Is "The Death of Death" that he mentioned, the same as the book "The Death of Death in the Death of Christ"?
What if we put a timeline on sovereign “election” & “saved by faith”:
Can’t it be that God used is sovereignty to “elect” up until before the death of Christ because atonement was not in place; and after the death of Christ with atonement completed is when we are saved by our decision of faith.
Arminian sheep are the only sheep in the history of the world to choose their own shepherd.
1920s You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Romans 11:19-21
Villarreal Marta Please explain what you mean by that.
1920s its a warning for us that just as the previous branches were broken off because of unbelief, we too will be if we stop living in repentance.
Stop living in arrogance and worrying about arminian theology and instead make sure you repent.
Villarreal Marta I’m not living in arrogance. I’m struggling with assurance and trying to put one foot in front of the other.
1920s that’s good to hear. If you are struggling with assurance I would point you to trust the work of God recorded in the scriptures. Read through the scriptures and focus on what God has done. Too many people open the Bible with a what must I do? Attitude instead of a what has God done for me? approach. If you believe and are baptized you “will be”saved.
Assurance is found in what God has done for us.
CHRIST DIED OR ALL SIN PERIOD...“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not
from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can
boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9 NIV)
johnny lloodte
When Pilate sentenced Jesus to death did he add the Ryder that Jesus was to die to expedite the sins of the world?
In natural life there has to be the shedding of blood (menses) before physical life is POSSIBLE, but human life doesn’t ACTUALLY begin until a certain act of human will takes place. In the same way, I believe, Christ’s shed blood makes spiritual life POSSIBLE (born again) but it takes an act of our will (faith, belief) to accept this gift of God (grace) and apply it to our life to receive the forgiveness of our sins and now begin our new ETERNAL life which can never be taken away from us because HE is able!
it takes an act of our will (faith, belief) to accept this gift of God (grace) and apply it to our life ?...so, we save ourselves, partly ?...NEVER !
@@englandshope689 How foolish? How hard is to understand that salvation is appropriated by faith and applied by God? We do not save ourselves by faith, that is the oldest straw man in the Calvinist's book. Faith is what God requires us to do before He does 100% of the saving.
@@n.holt7 man is justified by faith alone was Luther's main reason in starting the Protestant reformation you uneducated fake strawman lover wow
@@n.holt7 God requires absolute perfect obedience to His Torah
Which requires the nature only one man ever had.
You havent even gotten to the right door man glorifier
@@iacoponefurio1915 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
I Corinthians 1:21
God saves those who believe, not those who keep the Torah.
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
Romans 9:30-32
The Gentiles attained righteousness by faith, while Israel did not because they saught righteousness by the Law.
If limited atonement is true ,why then in the Great White Throne jugdement unbelievers are judged by their works and not by their sins. The work good work use in place of the perfect work of Christ on the Cross.
Nowhere does the Scriptures teach that Christ died for all mankind. Jesus died for everyone that the Father has given Him John 17
Ignoring John 3:16, Scripture says Christ died for the ungodly and that Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost.
I guess that means that the only people who are lost and ungodly are those God gave to Jesus 🤔
9:15, that "human response" is called "faith"....which is not a work and God still gets all the glory (romans 4) :)
There is no human response.. God has to do it ALL
@@hijohojo2868 wrong. Jesus said "all must repent". That is a human response, isn't it? Are you saying we sit back and don't need to repent, believe or follow Jesus' commandments?
@@rocketsurgeon1746 we see that God gives repentance as a gift. It is THEN used.
Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
2 Tim 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them REPENTANCE to the acknowledging of the truth;
Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give REPENTANCE to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
We see repentance Is GIVEN to us. We then utilize that gift because it is our desire to turn from sin
@@hijohojo2868 repenting to God and away from sin is something we do be cause of a choice He gives us. Read ezekiel 33 and john 3. It spells out we must do it. None of your verses , when read in context, change God's command that all should repent.
@@rocketsurgeon1746 All are commanded to repent. When read in context, we find Not everyone is even able to repent. It is a gift from God.
2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that CANNOT CEASE FROM SIN; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
Repentance is commanded by all.but only given to the elect. So when God sends man to hell, he is justified because they didn't obey the command of repentance
I still wrestle with certain points of both calvinism and arminianism. There are points on both sides that are correct, and i have come to the conclusion that our inferior brains just cant comprehend why some things are the way they are. What seems complicated to us is simple to God and one day we will understand it all.
I believe in the complete sovereignty of the triune God. I certainly believe in Perseverance of the Saints as it says in John 10 28-29 [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. That clearly states once you have received the free gift of God by grace through faith (Eph 2 8-9) that no one can pluck you from his hand.
I also understand that in Ephisians 2:1 it states we are dead in our trespasses, and if your dead you need to be brought to life "spiritually" and only God can do that, and how in John 6:44 it states that no one can come to me unless the father draw him so it is an act of God.
Then i read verses like Psalm 81 8-14
Hear me, my people, and I will warn you-
if you would only listen to me, Israel!
9 You shall have no foreign god among you;
you shall not worship any god other than me.
10 I am the Lord your God,
who brought you up out of Egypt.
Open wide your mouth and I will fill it.
11 “But my people would not listen to me;
Israel would not submit to me.
12 So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts
to follow their own devices.
13 “If my people would only listen to me,
if Israel would only follow my ways,
14 how quickly I would subdue their enemies
and turn my hand against their foes!
Now i dont know please mistake me if im taking that out of context but that sure sounds like God giving his people the freedom to choose whether to follow him or not. Or how our Lord says in Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Honestly its all so confusing and like i said we will all come to the full understanding after this life of sactification we live hopefully in complete submission and servitude to Jesus Christ. There are solid points on both sides and i agree with certain points on either but if anyone could help me and give me some clarity that would be great.
You don't have a clue what is correct stop lying
"not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." (2 Pet. 3.9) This verse doesn't make sense in calvinism because it says "should reach repentance" not "will reach repentance."
A clear one sided Calvinist approach. It is hard for anyone to split between “several” wills of God.
Not sure why you are so obsessed with affirming God’s sovereignty. Irrespective of our affirmation God is sovereign!!
Here’s where I disagree with Mr. Sproul.
In 2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.”
Peter is writing to Christians (who are already saved)! So then, logically, why would Peter admonish already saved Christians that (they) may need to repent (in a salvaic way) so that they may not perish? Makes no sense. Clearly, Peter is talking about those who are still unsaved and have not yet accepted Christ as their Savior. John 3:16 (whosoever).
To what in these believers is God long suffering…does second Peter address this?
@@alexkelley6064 Peter is addressing Christians, but he is not referring to them. He is speaking in general about the lost, the unsaved who are perishing, who haven’t yet come to repentance. Christians don’t and cannot (perish) in the judgement. Salvation is a one-time event. You cannot lose your salvation or (perish) in Hell if you’re a true Christian. So it doesn’t make any logical sense to assume Peter was directing his statements as if it would pertain to Christians. Not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.
Great, thanks!
This is where RC "parted ways" with J MacA. But, is RC a Calvinist or an Arminianist as opposed to JMacA???
Here's the beautiful truth that both Calvinists and Arminians are missing: "We [elect] are preparing now to rule and reign with Him in the coming ages (Eph. 2:7, 2 Tim. 2:12, Rev. 20:6), to govern five or ten cities (Luke 19:17,19), to sit on thrones governing the tribes of Israel (Matt. 19:28; Luke 22:30), even to rule over all He has (Luke 12:43-44). Our Lord is preparing leaders for that time ... we [elect] are the firstfruits [2 Thess. 2:13, Jam. 1:18, Rev. 14:4-5] -- the priests and kings who will judge the world and intercede for the ungodly (lost) in this age and the ages to come. ... God does not merely settle for the firstfruits. They are but a pledge for the whole." -- Gerry Beauchemin, _Hope Beyond Hell,_ chapter 5, *"Purpose of Election"* section
That’s a tough one. Of course God could elect to hate Esau and love Jacob as He wished. But isn’t this one specific case? ‘God is not willing that any should perrish but that ALL should come to repentance’ of course means ‘all people’. Not some preselected elect and lucky group. Otherwise it’d be useless bothering to preach the Gospel to ALL the world.
It is not useless to preach the gospel to all the world because the Lord has lost sheep throughout the world who need to hear His voice (the gospel) and come to Him ( be saved). You are saved by grace, by faith in Jesus Christ and that faith is not your own, it is a gift from God. Only the elect are given the faith to believe and be saved. Many are called but few are chosen. The Lord Jesus Christ died for His elect.
When God said "Jacob I have loved and Esau I hated" that is something that was said hundreds, maybe thousands of years after both Esau and Jacob are dead. That's not something He said of the twins when they were born.
When God chose Jacob, it was not to the neglect of others. Jacob was chosen to carry on the seed that would be a blessing to the world.
Even Calvin himself didn't believe in Limited Atonement! 1 John 2:2 could not be clearer!
"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."
What part of this verse do you not understand?
The 5 pointer says the world refers to Jew and Gentile.
@@alexkelley6064 Yes indeed. Even though it's not at all what it says in the Greek. The word for Gentiles or nations is "ethnos." But instead the word "cosmos" is used.
Jesus Christ did die for everyone, every human being. The scripture said so, if you do not believe the scripture, then don't claim "Glory to God alone". Sadly, even great teacher like RC Sproul falls for this man-made theory which changes every critical word of God which tell us the truth. The clearest is Romans 5:18 which tell us the free gift is for all mankind:
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
"Sufficient for all, efficient for the elect" does not teach us limited atonement. "Sufficient for all" means nothing if Jesus did not die for all. We the believers are secured in our salvation because God's Word said so, we do not have to rely on men-glorifying "Salvation logic" to feel secure.
A good reason why Jesus Christ must die for all: God's faithfulness in His promise of eternal life to Adam who represented all mankind. If you reject the representative principle, then you have a greater problem! From the teaching of the scripture, it is not atonement which make the difference between the elect and non-elect, it is the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ which makes us, the elect difference from the reprobate.
Do you believe Total Depravity? If so, all men are fallible, only the scripture is infallible! Five solas? Or glory of men in their words? Have no confidence in men (Psalm 146:3)!
4:25, the answer is YES if they believe :) that includes anyone
i personally think this statement Jesus made in (john6;37) should end this nonsense of limited atonement. (ALL THAT THE FATHER GAVE ME SHALL COME TO ME; AND HIM THAT COMES I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT.)
...so what happens to those whom the FATHER does NOT give to Jesus????
*_John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day_*
@@kevinrtres amen kevin., However he is asking about those whom the Father has not sent to jesus, well my friend if you read carefully it's written (John6;37) if they seek him he will in no wise cast them out, now if they Reject him, the WRATH OF GOD already abides in them.
Thru 3 minutes I totally agree .... BUT it should be added that "All who believe" doesn't really mean All in calvanism without an asterisk
You have no idea what Calvinism is 😆🙄
@@uncasunga1800 explain.
1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
There is nothing showing that John Calvin or Martin Luther believed the doctrine of Limited Atonement. It sure has nothing of it in his commentaries and a full discussion of the scope of the atonement is not found in Calvin’s writings. It was a counter reaction on the Synod of Dordrecht against the Five articles of the Remonstrants [Arminius] 60 year after John Calvin had passed away. Calvin sure believed that the wrath of God came on Christ for the sins of the whole world which is Biblical. The belief of limited atonement is unbiblical, however minor and hypothetical.
We find support that John Calvin did not concern himself with Thoughts of Limited Atonement in some of his commentaries.
BY JOHN CALVIN
“Also we ought to have good care of those that have been redeemed with the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. If we see souls which have been so precious to God go to perdition, and we make nothing of it, that is to despise the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.” [Sermon on Ephesians 5:11-14]
“The four reasons, whereby Paul doth carefully prick forward the pastors to do their duty diligently, because the Lord hath given no small pledge of His love toward the Church in shedding His own blood for it. Whereby it appeared how precious it is to him; and surely there is nothing which ought more vehemently to urge pastors to do their duty joyfully, than if they consider that the price of the blood of Christ is committed to them. For hereupon it followeth, that unless they take pains in the Church, the lost souls are not only imputed to them, but they be also guilty of sacrilege, because they have profaned the holy blood of the Son of God, and have made the redemption gotten by him to be of none effect, so much as in them lieth. And this is a most cruel offence, if, through our sluggishness, the death of Christ do not only become vile or base, but the fruit thereof be also abolished and perish ...” [Commentary on Acts 20:28]
“He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God’s benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him.” [Commentary on Romans 5:18]
“True it is that the effect of His death comes not to the whole world. Nevertheless, forasmuch as it is not in us to discern between the righteous and the sinners that go to destruction, but that Jesus Christ has suffered His death and passion as well for them as for us, therefore it behoves us to labour to bring every man to salvation, that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ may be available to them ...” [Sermon CXVI on the Book of Job (31:29-32)]
“The word many is not put definitely for a fixed number, but for a large number; for he contrasts himself with all others. And in this sense it is used in Romans 5:15, where Paul does not speak of any part of men, but embraces the whole human race.” [Commentary on Matthew 20:28]
“For he intended expressly to state [in John 3:16] that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favour of God, YET HE SHOWS HIMSELF TO BE RECONCILED TO THE WHOLE WORLD, when he invites all men without exception to faith in Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.” (Commentary on the Gospel of John)
Calvon is not a person featured in the Bible. Jesus was not Calvinist.
"...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Romans 8 : 9
The elect are those who have been saved and given the Spirit. The unsaved are none of his.
The atonement is like the serpent on the stick. You had to look at it to be healed.