MIXING WITH HARDWARE INSERTS (without HD system)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ส.ค. 2022
- Colt's Video: • Pro Tools 2019.5 issue...
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You can use shift + tab to transient with samples being selected and PT will just show you the exact sample difference
Does Logic have a version of that?
@@MCEEZR no, that's why PT is called Pro Tools ;)
@@CyrilleBoucanogh dude lol
Came to comment this.
@@MCEEZR of course it has and it is way more simple check this vdd th-cam.com/video/5wnEIGeZcZA/w-d-xo.html
You are so fantastic, thanks Andrew! My wife and I recently got a place that is allowing me to build the studio I've dreamed about playing in since I was a kid. Super cool 70's mud brick with double height ceiling and recycled wood from an old dock. It's a home studio build into this shell from scratch and I've had such fun planning it out in my head over the past months.
Also consolidating all of my current gear from years of playing mixed with a proper budget (compared to years ago as a musician) to get some sweet new stuff (lots of what I've seen you working with interestingly).
So many of your videos answer all of these odd little questions and challenges with the process and you explain it perfectly on the level that someone who isn't a professional working engineer but also isn't starting out in Garage Band can understand. Even really obscure stuff like laying floorboards or this exact video about hardware inserts.
The home studio is such a happy place for so many people and you really seem to feel that way too in your videos.
Just wanted to finally say thanks for that and can't wait to see how your channel and own studio evolve over the years!
nice, Andrew! I'm here in Nashville and grabbed a 500r8 a couple month ago and JUST starting using inserts last week on a few comps. LOVE that I can use one cable to run the audio in and out. A great engineer friend came over and was like....where are all the cables?! The fact that the 500 slots go before the insert is great for tracking but also have some 500 series mixing gear. Thanks for this
Love this video. This is a great, quick refresher for hybrid setups!
This is extremely useful, thank you so much!
I just picked up their 500r8 and starting to learn what it does. This unit does what your model does, plus it's a full USB interface. I haven't gotten to the using it in the mix yet, so thanks for the delay comp info. 😊
I've had the 500R8 for a year and a half now and I just keep discovering new things to do with it. It's extremely flexible and sounds great! Congrats on getting it!
Absolutely excellent tutorial, Andrew. Thanks very much!!! 🙏
Reaper and all the Steinberg software just has a button for this.
Thank gaaaawd for pipeline XT!!
I was thinking the same thing! S1 is so smart
I gotta say it again. Masters is a Masters! Love your videos!
Great video Andrew, thanks. Been using the R8 for a few years now, fantastic piece of gear. Highly recommend the TK501 buss compressor 500 series. Never leaves my master buss.
Awesome video!! Very helpful I appreciate you man
Thanks for your video, this worked perfect for me! 👍🏾
This a wonderful information Andrew! Thanks especially for the formula for calculating the off-set I think an Apollo Twin only has ADAT in so you wouldn't be able to use it to send signal, only receive ... It would be useful for tracking though. Talk about a cool 10 channel remote rig. Love your channel man.
FANTASTIC!!!
Thanks!
The man’s tutorials are just as good as the studio tours 10/10 bro
great stuff as always bro
Nice video. I’m wondering why in ProTools, you did not use tab to transient and then separate out the clip at the transient highlight the small clip from the beginning of your session and then change the time base to samples. Then in the counter you can see how many samples that clip contains. that seems a lot quicker to me.
Godsend!! Im working on an album right now, We purchased a Clarette +8 and ive got a bunch of mics and outboards from my buddies old studio, if I could get enough man power to move the Tac Scorpion II id move that too. Ive been trying to figure out the delay issue this past week, this video saved me. So easy too, they never taught this one when I went to school for audio engineering back in the day.
Very cool system, I use REAPER and luckily their Reainsert plug in has a delay compensation measuring feature built in, which is why in my opinion it's the best DAW out there
I think Protools is the only daw that doesn't have this compensation built in. It's in Logic, Reaper, Studio One and Cubase I know from using them.
@@danielpool2039 I know this won't be popular, but Pro Tools is overatted
@@ThePilate30 WhAaAt?!?!?
Great video! Thank you for sharing.
Thank you!
🎸🎹⌨💯
I love you bro. I’m slowly getting my home studio. Half of this stuff I have no idea what it is. But I love learning about it. So close to 100k congrats man
Thanks! Enjoy the process!
Lol ig there two different Andrews
I’d get a pair on the retro tube 500 pre. and a couple SSL EQ. Can’t beat ‘em for versatility. Unreal on guitars. Well everything. Couple 550B for that colour too
Nice vid bro!!!
uff. man this is been my struggle fro a long time. thanks a lot.
@ 2:08 LMAO! " thats a good little snap"!
Studio One is one the greatest DAWs for hybrid set up. Pipeline XT has built in delay comp at a click of a button.
Superb 😎😍
Great channel. 👍
I was hoping you would explain routing for inserting hardware (like a 2bus compressor) on your Protools Master Track, and simultaneously printing that to a new stereo audio track while also live monitoring that printed track. I do it using busses, but it always seems overly complicated.
Why I love Cubase it auto do this for you so no delay or latency problems.... Just one click and it detects how long the audio takes to get back to the daw, no need for buffering settings....
It's strange that this isn't a more streamlined process in protools until you consider that Avid really wants you to buy their dedicated hardware. In logic you pull up the insert IO patch and press one button that pings the route. Compensation is now set for the project. This can be saved as a preset, so you don't even have to ping every time as long as you're using the same mix template or recording template.
I guess the current state of affairs is better than the first generation of native pt where you would have to manually compensate your native plugins.
For the last two years I've been using the meta plugin instead when using hw inserts (plugin slot A = HW plugin slot B = Metaplugin with the sample delay fooling PT) less headaches and you only need to save a preset for every sample rate. And when recording I use the meta plugin on the master bus cause Pro Tools doesn't support the recording offset with 3d party interfaces. I haven't heard about anyone using the meta plugin this way when mixing but try it out.
Are you talking about the DDMF meta plugin?
One quick thing, the Apollo twin only has ADAT inputs, no outputs. The quad desktop has ADAT I/O though. So you can add extra channels of in but not out for the TWIN
Great as always! Try out the RND tape emulator and retro double wide🤘
Great info
Great vid! Almost at 100k subs!
You should definitely try out the great river 500 series preamps. They're about as much the warm wa73eqs. Totally worth it. By far some of the greatest preamps I've ever heard. They're like a clean consistent yet still characterful Vintage Neve. Definitely give it a try!
Hi Andrew, Try the CAPI vp28 pre amps, you can run 2 of them on your mix bus and get a nice api flavour. Not that hard to build if you can solder, or you could buy them built. For me the op amps were the most difficult
You look a lot like Jimmy Yeary. That's a compliment. He's a fantastic human being (and an amazing songwriter).
Honestly, check out the Cranborne Camden 500 pre could be fun! Other great pres are of course the API 512c & 512v, Neve 1073LB & 88RLB, Chandler Limited TG2-500, and Vintech VA573. Other fun gear is the Trident 80B EQ, Empirical Labs ELDS, Radial X-Amp, Retro Instruments Doublewide II, ACME Audio Opticom XLA-500, RND 542 Tape Emulator, and I know your good friend Colt has told you about the SPL BIG!
I'd like to see a comparison of capi preamps.
vp25 vp28 & 312's maybe even compared with different opamps if you feel like taking the time to experiment.
Logic users - you have a Ping tool within the app: Utility -> I/O plugin
Why Logic rules #1,202,301
ya i was so confused as to why this was necessary when logic has it built in.
❤
Great video, Andrew. I use Pro Tools Studio with a non-HD rig, but still have the option for Delay Compensation. Are there still versions of PT that don't offer this feature?
That really sucks that Pro Tools doesn't do this for you like Logic or some other DAW's it seems like a pain in the ass. Side note I just got a MOTU 16A to use with my outboard gear versus a patchbay and I'm really liking it so far. In Logic you can save I/O as presets for each piece of gear and it makes it super fast to use.
This is another reason why I use Studio One; built in automatically calculated delay compensation for plugins and external hardware.
I can't beleive ProTools requires manual calculations. What a pain.
They want you to buy their hardware. They tried to pull this when they first allowed 3rd party hardware on a native system. You actually had to do manual compensation for native plugins!
Surprised that you need to manually calculate this in protools? I have been using MixBus32C for 4 years and you simply press a button on the insert channel to auto measure latency for external hardware. Takes 1 second.
Great 🔥video, Andrew! Why don’t you give a couple of the new Malcolm Toft PUNISHR 500 Series Analog Harmonic Distortion Modules a try on your mix bus.
I will say logic has a step up in this particular process with the i/o audio plug-in that if you click the ping button, it will automatically compensate for the delay
Cool video as always. Regarding preamp suggestions, why don’t you try Cranborne’s own 500 pre, it’s super versatile. They live in my box along with the GAP 573 Premier.
Cool Andrew but if you use Logic Pro X you can just open the hardware insert plug-in and those all this automatically. Protools is a very behind and archaic! I moved away from it on version 11.
You're a mind reader. I've been thinking of buying outboard gear and going hybrid. This shows me the nuances involved and how to solve this problem. THANX. I can't wait to see you fill the 500 lunchbox.
You can use decimals in sasmples. If 50 is putting you past you can use 49.5.. At least on studio one you can
Great tutorial on this topic! Can you please create dedicated videos going through the same process using Ableton and Cubase? Also, does anything change once you start adding plugins to the session (since they introduce latency) or does the delay compensation stay the same as long as you don't change the buffer size and sample rate settings? Thank you!
Hi, In Cubase when you use it as a hardware insert you have a button called (measure latency) which measures and compensate the delay.
@@overclock5010 Thank you... I'm considering switching from Ableton to Cubase so wanted to learn more. Appreciate the response!
Wish there was a ping function on PT (like Cubase and other daws) where the delay compensation is calculated and adjusted for automatically! This way one doesn't need to worry about calculating buffer sizes/sample rate RT latency :/
Great vid anyway btw!
Totally agree
I was really surprised to see no ping function!
@@jimmyrigs me too. Especially on PT 😅
Hey, about the sample delay / sample rate : should we re-do this for all the outboard we have (different delay time nah?), and in the same way -> for different session ?
About the crane + Apollo twin = Apollo twin & twin X have ADAT IN but not ADAT OUT, mean you can track, but not “mix” with your “outboard gear”.
Fixed with the rack series
Joris
If you using Ableton, the plugin's title bar will tell you the latency in samples and milliseconds.
it will tell you the *plugin* latency but Live sorely lacks tools to make these kind of compensations. It doesn't provide sample-level readouts of selection length. A huge part of why people avoid Live for mixing--and why it's called "Live". Ableton need to step up and finally make "Studio".
@@timnordberg7204 ableton has an insert called External Audio Effect that routes to and from an external device and lets you set the latency of it's path. The master plugin delay compensation will then delay everything else to ensure alignment.
Hey so cool. thanks man. Im also working in Logic, where would you put the delay comp? Within the I/O Plugin. because I can never get that to work.
@Andrew Masters Hey i saw you said something to me like I won something but i cant find where it went after i clicked it on my notifications
Thank god for the I/O plugin in Logic that does this all with a push of button
Reainsert in Reaper baby. That’s all I have to say. Good to know if using pro tools though. Thanks Andrew.
Logic has "ping"
Great Channel Long time viewer. I keep coming back to this video. I get the process but when I send out of my Apollo 5 an 6 to compressor and back in 5 and 6 I'm only 4 samples behind doing this test. But if I increase my gain from line 5 and 6 that is my second send from click it is perfectly in sync. I'm at 48K Sample 512 Buffer size. HUh IDK
I’m a life long cubase user. You’re telling me Protools doesn’t have a native tool for measuring hardware latency?
There is, every DAW is capable of that. But he's explaining how you get those number and adjust to compensate the latency. I've met too many engineers/producers that know what to click but not why.
@@markowalski1 yes but basically every other Daw does this all this for you with the click of a button. Only pro tools requires your to buy hdx to get this feature.
I measured the samples, did the formula.. added the delay into IO settings. And get the same delay
One small nit. Your large buffer size should probably have been 1024, not 1028. I think that way just a typo.
Protools is a shame, glad that I switched to Logic! Get Logic and make your life easier for hybrid mixing, I’m mixing with more than 30 analogue outboard gears and no hassles, no calculations, no limitations, no phase issues and no latency. Plus the possibility to use any outboard gear in MS mode or stereo mode even if the unit doesn’t have an MS mode. And also all the gears can be used in parallel without setting up any parallel auxes. The difference is day and night I will never look back to ProTools while mixing in hybrid.
I'm not a PT user, but surely what you're calculating is *unreported* latency? Most DAWs make a compensation based on the mathematical relationship between buffer size and sample rate to calculate a base figure for input and output latencies. After those corrections are applied, the interface (and external gear connected to it) can still accumulated latency that is not "reported" by the interface. This click test measures the unreported latency, and PT allows you to correct this on a bus-by-bus level (feeling very envious right now!)
Also, I would have really liked to see (hear) a null test between the native and re-amped click tracks.
Hello! Andrew, I have an Alesis ADat 8-track black face digital recorder, would that be useful with my interface?
HI Andrew, thank you for the video. Do you know if there's a shortcut to mute hardware inserts? thanks in advance!
On pro tools it’s “make inactive” control + cmd click for mac
NEXT LEVEL!
Now that you've switched to Logic, would you consider a new video covering this process for the new software?
Should I turn off (uncheck) my Auto Delay Compensation when doing this?
Why doesn't PT just calculate this by itself? Cubase has had this built into its software for years.
I run a buffer of 64 samples, tracking and mixing and have no problems even with large sessions. Granted I am on a beefy home built PC tower (128 gb of ram, BABY!!!) using Reaper so my rig is absurdly efficient. Reaper also has a plugin that allows you to create hardware inserts that you can drop into your chain, it can ping and auto adjust for round trip latency and works flawlessly. Seems like Pro Tools really makes setting up a simple hardware insert needlessly difficult if you aren't on HDX. If you have Reaper installed on a Pro Tools system, do the reaper plugins show up in protools? Be cool to see if REA Insert plug works there too.
It’s 2024 and this really needed a to be addressed with a ping button built into the GUI…ain't nobody got time for dat!
So I have an 1176 clone as an outboard. I rarely use it because I realised that I can only pass a single channel at a time through it when mixing. This would mean either only using it on a single track or printing the track… and let’s face it, these days recording a band normally would have quite a few tracks to process, so am I right in thinking that there is no easy way to use outboard unless you have multiple pieces of hardware?
Can you adjsut the samples on logic pro or any other daw???
You should get some API mic pres
Cubase: “calculate delay”
Cubase: done!
Pro tools: 🤷♂️
Do we need to change I/O Insert Latency back to 0.00 MS (default) when recording? I use the same stereo 1073 to record with that I often run tracks through as well
Does this process (recording click track and calculating delay) need to be repeated for each individual piece of outboard gear or only once in 1025 high buffer and again in 64 lower buffer? (per your example)
Avid strikes again ! If you want to do hardware inserts without being a mathematician you have to spend more money on an HDX system or you could just use any virtually any other DAW on Earth that will do the same thing with a stock insert plugin.
lol, that’s funny! So all your “other DAWs” magically deal with delay compensation when routing through outboard? Pray tell!
@@johnvcougar Nothing magical about it the plugin pings your hardware loop to measure latency and you're done. in my case it's sample accurate and you can control the input and output levels of the hardware from the plugin. The trick is that the plugin has to be integrated in to the DAW or interface which Avid does no offer. TC Electronic was doing this 15 years ago but I guess Avid didn't get memo or they made the executive decision to limit their native systems for reasons that are obvious.
Man I hope you never have to calibrate a live rig or your head will explode from all the “math” 😂
😮💨
You attracted the Pro Tools suckers who are desperate to prove the relevance of it in a world where it's not the "industry standard". They dropped hundreds of bucks on a DAW almost no one younger than 30 and outside a major studio uses and feel the need to justify their purchase, stay strong brother 🤙
Meanwhile Logic Users - Ping. And it's done.
Wish PT had something so easy and intuitive. But still a very helpful tutorial Andrew.
Hi Andrew I'm in a bit of a pickle lol. I have some hardware gear. I was fine with my Clarett 8pre until I purchased more gear, so I purchase a Focusrite Mkii non Dynamic . Now my issue is I can't get it to work in Protools. I set the Clarett as ADAT and get no sound. I tried setting up a patch bay which my brain will not wrap around the concept yet. Do you have any video explaining how to get things flowing with Protools because there isn't any out here.
What if I just use the hardware inserts on my console, still a problem?
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Question. Do you leave the Pro Tools "Delay Compensation" option enabled? I ask this because. When I do my test, the hardware is faster than the Bus. So, I am a bit confused. I have the IDC on the UAD console off. However, I left the Pro Tools Delay Compensation on.
can I know your mix buss settings?
Does having other applications and tabs open become a variable? For example if I’m mixing at 1024 buffer size but I have a bunch of apps open will that create more delay than if I had no apps open mixing at 1024?
What interface are you using? I only get 64samples with a Lynx 16 via thunderbolt @ 96k 64 buffer. It’s so quick I’m basically only compensating for the buffer? LoL
What the deuce is A Line 13? Is that what’s being sent to the analog hardware? So confused
Does it matter that piece of hardware you are going through? Do different hardware pieces have different delays?
Analog devices operate at the speed of wire (somewhere close to the speed of light), but there are conversion delays getting in and out of your computer. Digital devices, on the other hand, also have to convert between analog and digital, and may use buffers that often delay the signal for a small period - somewhere around 20ms depending on the unit. Some digital devices allow hookup via digital to your DAW, avoiding conversions, but the processing may still incur latency. Depends on what you got!
There’s a much easier way to find out the sample delay rather than changing you nudg value. Just select the distance from the grid downbeat to the transient and “expanded transport” gives you the exact sample amount. The way you did it is does not yield correct results.
That’s right-just use slip mode and zoom in to drag the distance.
i use cubase and it show me what ms i got for any given sample rate, so i dont need to do these calcutate, do you have that in your DAW ? or am i lost here?
You say mic pre the same way Randy says creme fraishe (thats a southpark reference)
ok so my only problem I'm having is getting the signal to show on the meter when I insert my hardware. I can clearly see the levels on my hardware moving and I can hear the difference. but for some reason when I insert it whichever line I put it on there is no longer a volume signal . is there a setting in pro tools that causes this because I have everything routed correctly. I'm getting signal and I can hear what my outboard gear is doing and it sounds amazing. but I'm stuck because when I insert it the volume basically disappears unlike yours and other tutorials I watch and I realized that literally the only problem stopping me from being able to actually mix with my hardware and print it. does anybody know how to fix this small issue .
input monitoring. The button next to record its an I
I have a uad 6176 I've have it in split mode when I route that to my interface to an insert whatever track and pro tools I put the insert on no volume I will literally pay somebody some money to help me figure this problem out I've watched every video on TH-cam nobody talks about how to route in pro tools to get the sound to come through
Second!!
The real first!
or..... you're using studio one's pipeline xt .... cheers!!!