I feel like even on the "subtle" setting you can absolutely hear it brighten up the mix, probably due to some juicy harmonic distortion. Very cool to see more rare gear on TH-cam
I was ready for it to be way more subtle but as soon as you put it in it really made the song feel like someone just stretched the whole mix further back and forward at the same time, incredible depth machine
Its great to see boutique hardware with real love and care put into all aspects of its design and function. Inspiration from classics rather than being a derivative work. Also the overlay images really help my meme addled millenial brain, thanks.
Fantastic. I love this. I’ve been trying to purchase one and patiently waiting in hope one day the email will arrive. I love the plug in but the hardware just has such a rich depth and release that stands out with such elegance. Lucky you.
Yes, the wait can be long. He suggests things will be faster now that the new circuit is worked out, but we'll see. I'll let him know people have been asking.
I'm jealous of me about this one as well. It took a long time and I had to trade out some other nice boxes, but all is well that ends well. I appreciate the kind words!
@@davidpetersmusic that is so unbelievably generous of you, wow. thank you! Although cliche, a plugin vs hardware comparison might be very interesting! Especially considering this is the only demo of the unit on youtube. I have a Thermionic Phoenix and a Manley VM, so if you want to hear anything through that I can gladly help
Great demo!! Awesome filming, clear narration, no nonsense & high quality video. I would've been interested to hear the difference between hardware/plugin with 2x or 4x oversampling enabled. The plugin gets super close but I do think the hardware has an unparalleled sense of depth, transients, and detail- plugins often have difficulty emulating that nuance. Certainly achievable to an extent digitally with a combination of processes, but considerably less immediate.
Humbling compliments, thank you! Can you change the oversampling in the plugin? I never thought to try that. I've enjoyed the plugin for a long time, but you're right about the strengths of the hardware.
I felt that way about the original Fairchild. Then when I was finally in a studio with one, we all chose the LA2A instead for what we were doing. Ya never know!
@@davidpetersmusicActually, I wanna be in the same room with YOU one day, I‘d love to work on a production together. Seems we share a lot of sonic taste, enthusiasm and nerdy knowledge.
Great vid... love it... thank you! This compressor sounds so beautiful. The plugin does a good job but the hardware just has that special something to it. As you say, it's a "feel" thing.
wow what a beautiful unit, and you can really see and hear the craftsmanship. would love one (obviously) but only shipping in the US and Canada for now. maybe one day :)
Just found your channel and subscribed. Nice to hear proper A/B comparisons. Great sounding compressor. Waiting for the day when plugins have all the magic of hardware.
Welcome to you! plugins have come a long way, but capturing high end tube circuits is still a big lift. I like the plugin of this, but there's also a reason I was chasing the hardware.
When you first switched it in, I immediately heard depth increasing with the drum and verb. The whole thing was less flat. There was some nice width as well, and overall "ahhh, music". I own the plugins and like them as they are really great, but as with every other comparison to a plugin with it's hardware counterpart, I just don't think you can beat the hardware. Just my experience. Thanks for the videos. I really enjoy them!
Plug in is decent but it doesn't capture the richness and depth of the hardware ... but, that's what I expected. Maybe when AI get into full swing in DSP it can zero in on the nuances to closer degree. Only time will tell.
Phew, that sounds awesome! Adds top end without harshness. The hardware is superior, but the plugin is not half bad either. Thanks for the listening tests... really useful
Been looking out for your next video. The MDE sounds phenomenal. Heard good things about the plug-in. Fantastic job comparing it and also demoing the plug-in pushed a bit. The boutique builders coming out of LA at the moment are really exciting. Highland, Overstayer, Mystery Magician, Sound Techniques MK2 and Ian etc..
It's always a trial by fire for the LA gear designers. So much of my favorite stuff is from Ian, Bryce, Josh Florian, Jeff at Overstayer, etc. I don't know about Mystery Magician, I'll have to look that up!
I have zero experience with Sound Techniques so far, but Clay Blair over at Boulevard Recording has their new console and seems to love it. He has a video of it on here somewhere I think.
Love you in depth viceos, thanx a lot for taking the time to produce such valuable content! The hardware sounds like there was a built in SPL Big, compared to the plugin. Being a huge fan of Al Schmitt and Capitol in general, I use the plugin a lot, since it came out. While Al told in a lot of interviews that he used a Fairchild on vocals, he told me in person that he used the MDE and the TLA100A on a lot of occasions. Same thing with preamps, he used Martech on vocals for quite some time, and even an Oram. I own one vari-mu that does similar magic, it’s the Vacuvox U23M. This one blows away my Manley Varimu, Amtec 099 and UTA Unfairchild. Well, it costs a whole lot more, though. If you ever get a chance to try one of these, make sure to do it! They are insanely good.
I've owned the UTA and have tried the VacuVox. Both great in their own ways. The VacuVox had an amazing depth to it. I remember the low end in particular!
@@davidpetersmusic great to read, that you’ve checked the Vacuvox, already. The UTA always seems to change my tonal balances a tiny bit too much, for my taste. Feels like loosing some lowest subs and a little bit of the highest air band, too. It kinda focusses on the 1k to 5k region. Maybe its transformers. Some people regard the Retro 176 as too coloured, but I like it a lot on solo instruments like jazz saxophone. I‘d love to have a MDE in my collection. BTW, my Manley Varimu is a very rare early one: it’s a single rackspace mono unit! You really see those not so often. It’s much smoother in sound as the modern version. Different tubes, too. Sounds like a Tab U73 on upright bass…
I agree on your take of the UTA. I love the action and flexibility of it, but it has a tone that limited where I used it. Not bad, just not my taste for full mixes. The VacuVox does the full mix thing very well. And though I haven't heard one myself, those first Manley boxes have a wonderful reputation!
@ I love my UTA on acoustic guitars. It helps preventing that lowend cloud build up. On bass I prefer classic LA2A, though. How would you describe the detailed difference in sound between the Vacuvox and Magic Death Eye (if possible with words)? Do you use the MDE on single tracks from time to time?
I've been trying the MDE on many things, all with great results. The VacuVox I remember being really dimensional in the low end, great on the mix and bass. The MDE stands out in the upper mids. I related with the MDE more than the VV and found it more flexible. I didn't have long with the VV, just an afternoon, so there's a lot in them I did not discover.
Thanks for taking so much time to make these videos. Excellent stuff. I love my unit even though I’ve one with the older designs and thus expensive tubes. I get that exact feeling. Sad when it’s off ! Ha. Quite right.
Another cool video, David. I had found your channel in my TH-cam feed, relating to the Flaming Lips' Zaireeka, and your features on cool, esoteric gear was a wonderful surprise. The sound of the Magic Eye is great, I wasn't aware of it before. Ian sounds like a real genius. Like you mention, the Magic Eye is more of a mastering compressor; to my ears, it takes what is already there and gives it a slight push in a natural sounding way. Transients come through excellent, and the high end on the transients seems to be doing something extra, like on the picking of the guitar or the snap of the snare. Bass is subtle, but nice, as well. Without actually using the Magic Eye and just based on your demos here, it is more like a Manley Vari-Mu to me; something that isn't really meant for high compression and extreme settings.
Great Video David and of course the plugin dont sound like the hardware but is really close. From the hardware i really like the how the release tale sounds.
I was once on the waiting list for this, which was very slow, and then sadly it went US only. So I bought an Unfairchild and the accessory box when that came out which has been wonderful.
I had a similar story. The MDE was held up for a while due to getting parts and the tube redesign. I also waited on the POM list for a long time. Both eventually came though, it just took a while! Hoping things get to a more normal pace with all of these boxes soon.
@@davidpetersmusic yes the MDE sounds terrific - I had hoped Ian was going to get someone to manufacture them for him and make them more gettable - let's see!
With respect to your question re: Peak limiting in a DAW . Try using a clipper before your "analog" bus comp plugin. It seems to make them work better. It might have to do with the idea that most, if not all classic designs were tested and tuned running signal off tape. Ever so slightly clipping before your main comp can go a little way to simulating this and it seems to take the extra stress of simulation process. When ITB I'll use an Oxford inflator or a Boz Labs Big Clipper before some G-Buss thing... the compression ends up sounding denser (which is good IMO) and more like the og analog equipment.
One „sickness“ of digital audio is that you often have, can have or have without anyone asking you, very sharp transients that are almost impossible to happen in the analog domain. We are living in the best times for audio processing to date. Sometimes your clipper suggestion might work well, in other cases it might better to use a chain of compressors, each doing what they do well. For example using a very fast and clean compressor like the Tdr Kotelnikov you can catch the first milliseconds only (only the initial transient) in a very transparent way. Random example, set Attack to 00ms and release to 10-20ms and start lowering the threshold. You will notice that it can work wonders in making a clicky snare softer in a very transparent way, then you can of course tweak to liking cause there is not setting that covers all as we all know. Then later you can use a more distorted-colorful comp like a tube comp or whatever tickles your fancy to fatten it up etc etc. Or you can use a slow attack like 25-40ms to let the transients through and the comp will concentrate on the body. This way you can massage things nicely together. Clipping everything in the early stages while being a fast solution sometimes adds distortion that accumulates across many tracks that get added and can (no must but can) lead to a harsh mix later on. It took me around 10+ years to realize that some people telling me that they can hear 0.3 db of compression difference where not necessarily lying. Learning a compressor inside out comes after learning to hear what compression does in the first place. Not trying to play smart. Just posting some thoughts of the moment in case any newbies reading this thread find it useful. Peace
@@GingerDrums hard clipping is many times better and almost inaudible when used on very fast transients. soft clipping can imprint too much color some times. Either way, most Limiters are at least dual stage meaning the have a limiter and a clipper inside. Some before the Limiting stage and some after. Sky is the limit
@@saardean4481 hard clipping creates insane rotation the moment any EQ gets applied. If your song gets put on radio, or a DJ tries to play it then all that hard clipping loudness disappears and you get a huge over. Never use hard clipping as you describe, it's a modern social media phonomenon, no MEs are actually doing this
Because it's so subtle at first, it's hard to hear how special it is right away. The more time I spend with it, that more I respect how good it really is.
Love the Black Knight graphic on the HPF……’None Shall Pass!’…. Nicely done! subbed! The plug in very one dimensional by comparison…. I think this device is phenomenal and what it does and how it does it I think since Designer is just a one-man operation, it would probably be an incredible move. If you could get some other company to mass produce them for him and that he could license the design and component list to them. I only say that, because I think something like this is incredibly useful and having it available on the water scale would be an amazing thing plus if something happens to him, and he passes away, There won’t be any support for his products anyhow, that’s just my two cents. phenomenal video and phenomenal device!
Not everyone is enjoying that scene, but I was actually proud of the Black Knight switch between "none shall pass" and "tis a flesh wound". Once you've seen 1000 compressors with the same controls, one needs to spice up looking at the 1001st!
thanks so much for the demonstration! really cool to hear this thing at last. didn't know ian was from creeper lagoon; also cool. believe it or not i can get my IGS Tubecore to sound just as good as the MDE on those drums (didn't try the full mix). the tubecore SC HPF is a little lower (120 Hz) so i had to cut a little bit more lows to get it in the same zone. crazy how the plugin lacks the depth compared to both. i wonder why that is. MDE on the full mix really reminds me of the Whitestone P331 demos I've heard. it adds a certain soft upper mid lift. I feel like the P331 does a similar soft tube lift slightly lower into the mids. thanks again, david!
There are so many great boxes out there these days. The differences between them can seem like splitting hairs, but sometimes it's those subtle things that make you love a box or not. It's so subjective. That upper-mid thing you hear on the MDE is something that really works for me. I've never tried the IGS, but I'm glad to hear you're getting it to speak well! I'm very thankful for plugins, but I think the complexity of what's happening in the analog domain is still hard to replicate completely. I always end up having to use both, and I'm happy both are there!
What a lovely unit David. Bit jealous here... When you pushed the compression on the instrumental, the difference with the plugin became really huge. Disappointing to only have the plugin. That being said, with the drumloop, the difference was less notable. Some comfort in the end...😉
The plugin does a great job capturing the hardware, it's just hardware vari-mu compressors have the ability to clip transients a bit, allowing for more loudness. It's not really a fair fight for the plugin, but it is reality. I'm surprised the drum sample didn't highlight it as much! That plugin sample really impressed me.
The plugin definitely doesn't give the same weight to the mix. The hardware perfectly glues the bass and the drums, smooths out the mids and also adds a bit of sheen to highs. The plugin, however, doesn't glue the bass and the drums in the same way and doesn't have that high frequency sheen.
The hardware, off then on, really gives a sort of "life" to it, which is nuts because the mix is already great. I wonder if the plugin has perfectly matched, identical "treatment" in the signal path. Basically a digital clone, so that L equals R in all manners. Unlike any piece of hardware, that will havevery slight tolereances differences that may account for more "wideness" or "3D" effects? I find the hardware slightly wider and less center focused and the plugin with a really forward center image. Great vid!
I imagine there are lots of things that contribute to the sense of difference. The dimensionality and naturalness of tubes and transformers has always been hard for plugins to capture. That said, I think the plugin does a nice job!
@davidpetersmusic i think someone else mentioned the oversampling feature on the plugin. Did you get a chance to try it out and conpare? If yes, any noticeable change?
The hardware is more open & just reacts much better. The 1st setting with 1db of compression did something really special to the transients almost like a VCA but much better.
Great video David! I have one of these too, same revision. Question - how hard are you hitting the input on this, not including the input gain (ie what level is coming out of your DAW)?
@@lancepowell8561 we still don’t have power after the fire, otherwise I would open up a session and look. I’m guessing peaks are hitting no higher than -6. If all the knobs are at 12 o’clock, I tend to get 1DB of compression, maybe 2. Which is just how I like it!
When you pushed the hardware it really showed its true colors! No plugin can live up to hardware. Does your version have the older tubes or the newer ones?
For my taste, this is the best finisher comp ever! How or where can I order one? Because if I understand correctly, this is something that you can not buy anywhere.
i´m always using the perceived loudness when comparing dynamic processors - the level gain through saturation/clipping just isn´t a fair comparison i think. HOFA has a nice plugin for that called blind test. i did many comparisons with that and learned some interesting truths! great unit, great guy, great video - much thanks from berlin at 4 am)
Thanks back to Berlin! (after 4am) My goal was more to showcase the differences between the hardware and software. The natural clipping is a meaningful difference, not just between hardware and software, but in the end results they produce in a mix. One way or another, those peaks need to be dealt with. I enjoy how vari-mu compressors do some of that work for you!
@@davidpetersmusic and you sure know a ton more about this than i do! i own a POM fairchild (w original transformers) and a phoenix and i love them both, even if i don´t know what they´re doing) and the reason i´m awake in the middle of the night is probably because i´m getting a 1978 4032 harrison console on monday! i see you have a studer - i used to have a 169 & 269, beautiful sounding consoles.
Congrats on the Harrison! ...and the POM+Phoenix! I had a POM here recently for a short time. I'm sad the the timing wasn't right for me to keep it. It's lovely.
PSA! Ian doesn’t sell many of these for reasons explained here ⬆️… but if you want this tone get him to master your tracks. He’s f**king great : DARK SKY MASTERING .. get some!
@@davidpetersmusic his ear/taste reminds me of George Marino's. I got to sit in with him many a time and I loved the way he could dig out another 10% out of the tracks. Please keep on going with your vids David. I really like your style. Merry Xmas from Australia.
I only recently discovered the Death Eye but it's really nice on my mixes and I do pretty aggresive techno stuff for clients! Very musical. Anyway regarding the video. I'm watching this on my 100$ bluetooth inears and the difference with hardware engaged is very clear. I actually also notice the difference with the plugin verrrry clearly. The hardware is way more forgiving and open sounding. You can hear the stereo image is wider, the plugin narrows it quite a bit... ...until you start pushing the input gain. To me it sounds like at higher input gain when the tubes are being driven a bit the hardware and software seem closer. This is also what I've found on some UAD clones from LA2A for instance. The default plugins settings are already giving quite some color like you would get after driving the unit pretty hard. I guess for the application of your song the subtle of the hardware sounds better. But I think if you'd anyway drive the hardware more the plugin comes quite close. Would've been cool to have a bit more subtle and open sounding options on the plugin too, but alas.. that's plugin world. One last note: it's very unclear to me if the plugin actually oversamples and whether or not it does so effectively. Perhaps this is the reason that it sounds a bit more transparent!
I think I missed some of the plugin features. People have mentioned "secret modes", oversampling, etc. If I discover something new there, maybe I'll run some additional comparisons.
Thanks so much for this well produced and funny video! I could’ve gone up to the studio and listened to my barefoots but to my surprise I could hear the subtle differences on my iPad Pro, even with my drummer’s ears! Hey, I’ve been looking for an engineer to review my drum recording process at my studio in Silverlake, I would be curious to know if this is something that might interest you for a consultation fee?
Thank you for the wonderful video. While not a hardwear fanatic, this compressor i would love as hardwear. Fantastic piece of gear. Nice tube mush with a nice sheen topping to finish it off. At 18:50 i don`t like the sound. Completely killed the body of the snare but i reckon the settings were a bit extreme in favor of the demonstration. The plugin sounds very good too but nothing to write home about. However i would love if you would tweak a bit the plugin in the video. I have better suited plugins for my taste
@@saardean4481 I have long enjoyed the plugin, but the hardware is just effortless and adds a sweetness that is never too much. It’s a subtle box, but that’s its magic.
Great unit, both the hardware and the plugin. Hardware/plugin comparison had a noticeable, subjective volume boost when the hardware was engaged so not entirely fair. So, hard to judge that but seemed like the hardware just did better (as usual).
I wanted to highlight that loudness boost because it's particular to vari-mu tube units when pushed. It's something plugin don't do as much. So yes, that test was unfair!
any advice on getting the analog version of the compressor i looked on the net / not much comes up / the plug in does ,. i would rather have the real deal ,. cheers
I volume matched a bit between the Engaged and Bypassed (Which is something you should have done yourself), and I didn't notice that much of a difference if any at all besides ONLY volume. IDK.
They are peak matched and that choice was purposeful. (which you could have figured out yourself) 😉 I was trying to showcase the difference between driving the plugin and driving the hardware. The driven hardware produces more loudness at the same peak level. It's a meaningful difference to be aware of. The other samples were peak matched and similar in loudness. A little bit of everything.
I keep seeing the LAAL being talked about! I've never heard one myself. I'm really happy with the Pundulum limiter I have, but I'm always curious what's new out there.
@ sigh 😮💨. I feel like it takes a chain of carefully chosen plugins with very deliberate settings to achieve what a one piece of hardware can do. Ok back to work!
Cool little box! Might be even more helpful without the commentary while you mess with the settings. It would allow people to hear it better and arrive at their own conclusions. Thanks for this video!
I always wonder about the commentary. Maybe next time I'll save it for after the samples or type out something if I feel it should be said. Thanks for the thoughts!
different settings? As in you'd like to hear different settings? ...or the plugin used different settings? With the knobs in the same place they were very different volumes and amount of compression. I chose to get them as close as I could by ear and meter readings.
It makes more sense to match loudness, not peak level. I get you're intentionally clipping on the hardware, which the plugin does not do on the same settings, but since the plugin gain structure is clearly not the same, it's not really a fair comparison. Great video otherwise!
I had the same debate here: peak or loudness comparisons. The more standard settings were a decent test for matched loudness. The pushed settings I wanted to show that clipping. One of my problems with plugin compressors is they tend to create more peak jumps than they tame, which means another clipping or limiting process is required later. If I want to show the differences between using the two, that's a big one.
finally a piece of gear with actual sized switches on it
@@zvotaisvfi8678 Agreed!
I feel like even on the "subtle" setting you can absolutely hear it brighten up the mix, probably due to some juicy harmonic distortion. Very cool to see more rare gear on TH-cam
It brings the high-mids out a little, but not to the degree an EQ would. It kinda "fills them out". Thanks for checking it out!
Thank you, David! I hope you're safe in this wild time for LA. This video is the best possible representation of this hidden gem.
That’s a quality compliment and I appreciate it!
I was ready for it to be way more subtle but as soon as you put it in it really made the song feel like someone just stretched the whole mix further back and forward at the same time, incredible depth machine
You've got good ears! I love that it changes everything, but doesn't change my mix. You can add it before or after you're done, which is nice.
Dude these niche reviews are super helpful, thoughtful, & appreciated!
I'm so thankful for TH-cam when it comes to learning about stuff like this. I'm glad I have niche to share!
Its great to see boutique hardware with real love and care put into all aspects of its design and function. Inspiration from classics rather than being a derivative work. Also the overlay images really help my meme addled millenial brain, thanks.
@@djcommie It’s truly a piece of art. Everyone knows what a threshold knob does, so I had to keep the basic features section interesting somehow!
Great review, David. MDE vs Vacuvox U23 pair would be an interesting afternoon!
@@chetdelcampo I’ve used them individually but never side by side! The VacuVox were great, but I bonded with the MDE immediately.
Fantastic. I love this. I’ve been trying to purchase one and patiently waiting in hope one day the email will arrive. I love the plug in but the hardware just has such a rich depth and release that stands out with such elegance. Lucky you.
Yes, the wait can be long. He suggests things will be faster now that the new circuit is worked out, but we'll see. I'll let him know people have been asking.
@@davidpetersmusic I actually ended up ordering a POM Fairchild as at the time the MDE wasn't being built. Its a work of art too.
I had one here briefly. Very nice box.
@@MonkeyMarc Amazing-these are the two top-end compressors I'm torn between for my studio mastering section. Maybe we could chat sometime!
@@jonathandavis2527 most definitely. I’m always happy to run some signal through my POM if that helps
love it
Me too. Thanks for checking it out!
Man that hardware is something special!
It's true. Thanks for the comment!
I literally cannot tell you how jealous I am. Also, this was a work of art of a video. Bravo
I'm jealous of me about this one as well. It took a long time and I had to trade out some other nice boxes, but all is well that ends well. I appreciate the kind words!
And you can always send tracks over! 😇
@@davidpetersmusic that is so unbelievably generous of you, wow. thank you!
Although cliche, a plugin vs hardware comparison might be very interesting! Especially considering this is the only demo of the unit on youtube.
I have a Thermionic Phoenix and a Manley VM, so if you want to hear anything through that I can gladly help
As always some of the best stuff on TH-cam
Humble thanks!
Great demo!! Awesome filming, clear narration, no nonsense & high quality video. I would've been interested to hear the difference between hardware/plugin with 2x or 4x oversampling enabled. The plugin gets super close but I do think the hardware has an unparalleled sense of depth, transients, and detail- plugins often have difficulty emulating that nuance. Certainly achievable to an extent digitally with a combination of processes, but considerably less immediate.
Humbling compliments, thank you! Can you change the oversampling in the plugin? I never thought to try that. I've enjoyed the plugin for a long time, but you're right about the strengths of the hardware.
Hands down one of my favorite plug-ins. I just wanna be in the same room with one before I die.
I felt that way about the original Fairchild. Then when I was finally in a studio with one, we all chose the LA2A instead for what we were doing. Ya never know!
@@davidpetersmusicActually, I wanna be in the same room with YOU one day, I‘d love to work on a production together. Seems we share a lot of sonic taste, enthusiasm and nerdy knowledge.
It's beautiful sounding. Wow.
Agreed. It has a real elegance about it.
Great vid... love it... thank you! This compressor sounds so beautiful. The plugin does a good job but the hardware just has that special something to it. As you say, it's a "feel" thing.
Much appreciated! Yes, the plugin is great, but the hardware does the extra special thing hardware does.
wow what a beautiful unit, and you can really see and hear the craftsmanship. would love one (obviously) but only shipping in the US and Canada for now. maybe one day :)
I'm sure one will get to Sweden some day! Or you have an excuse to visit LA and pick one up yourself. 😉
@@davidpetersmusic good idea - deductible trip!
My fave stereo vari mu. Ian has incredible ears for designing this. 💯
Agreed. I've been through a lot of good ones before I landed here. It's really musical.
Just found your channel and subscribed. Nice to hear proper A/B comparisons. Great sounding compressor. Waiting for the day when plugins have all the magic of hardware.
Welcome to you! plugins have come a long way, but capturing high end tube circuits is still a big lift. I like the plugin of this, but there's also a reason I was chasing the hardware.
Very smooth adds air and detail.
Exactly my thought. It's subtle but meaningful.
Sounded excellent every time, walked all over the plug in. So much more open than the plug in, Loved it,,, :)
I always liked the plugin, but you're right, the hardware is a different level of special.
When you first switched it in, I immediately heard depth increasing with the drum and verb. The whole thing was less flat. There was some nice width as well, and overall "ahhh, music". I own the plugins and like them as they are really great, but as with every other comparison to a plugin with it's hardware counterpart, I just don't think you can beat the hardware. Just my experience. Thanks for the videos. I really enjoy them!
I'm glad you heard it! What you say about hardware is true. I'm very thankful for plugins, but the hardware still sounds more alive and musical.
Plug in is decent but it doesn't capture the richness and depth of the hardware ... but, that's what I expected. Maybe when AI get into full swing in DSP it can zero in on the nuances to closer degree. Only time will tell.
Phew, that sounds awesome! Adds top end without harshness. The hardware is superior, but the plugin is not half bad either. Thanks for the listening tests... really useful
Glad it was useful! Hardware always has the advantage, but I love and use the plugin regularly as well.
@@davidpetersmusic Good to know you use the plugin as well. It means at least it gets most of the way towards the hardware :)
Been looking out for your next video. The MDE sounds phenomenal. Heard good things about the plug-in. Fantastic job comparing it and also demoing the plug-in pushed a bit. The boutique builders coming out of LA at the moment are really exciting. Highland, Overstayer, Mystery Magician, Sound Techniques MK2 and Ian etc..
It's always a trial by fire for the LA gear designers. So much of my favorite stuff is from Ian, Bryce, Josh Florian, Jeff at Overstayer, etc.
I don't know about Mystery Magician, I'll have to look that up!
I‘d be interested in Sound Techniques a lot!
I have zero experience with Sound Techniques so far, but Clay Blair over at Boulevard Recording has their new console and seems to love it. He has a video of it on here somewhere I think.
Love you in depth viceos, thanx a lot for taking the time to produce such valuable content! The hardware sounds like there was a built in SPL Big, compared to the plugin. Being a huge fan of Al Schmitt and Capitol in general, I use the plugin a lot, since it came out. While Al told in a lot of interviews that he used a Fairchild on vocals, he told me in person that he used the MDE and the TLA100A on a lot of occasions. Same thing with preamps, he used Martech on vocals for quite some time, and even an Oram. I own one vari-mu that does similar magic, it’s the Vacuvox U23M. This one blows away my Manley Varimu, Amtec 099 and UTA Unfairchild. Well, it costs a whole lot more, though. If you ever get a chance to try one of these, make sure to do it! They are insanely good.
I've owned the UTA and have tried the VacuVox. Both great in their own ways. The VacuVox had an amazing depth to it. I remember the low end in particular!
@@davidpetersmusic great to read, that you’ve checked the Vacuvox, already. The UTA always seems to change my tonal balances a tiny bit too much, for my taste. Feels like loosing some lowest subs and a little bit of the highest air band, too. It kinda focusses on the 1k to 5k region. Maybe its transformers. Some people regard the Retro 176 as too coloured, but I like it a lot on solo instruments like jazz saxophone. I‘d love to have a MDE in my collection. BTW, my Manley Varimu is a very rare early one: it’s a single rackspace mono unit! You really see those not so often. It’s much smoother in sound as the modern version. Different tubes, too. Sounds like a Tab U73 on upright bass…
I agree on your take of the UTA. I love the action and flexibility of it, but it has a tone that limited where I used it. Not bad, just not my taste for full mixes. The VacuVox does the full mix thing very well. And though I haven't heard one myself, those first Manley boxes have a wonderful reputation!
@ I love my UTA on acoustic guitars. It helps preventing that lowend cloud build up. On bass I prefer classic LA2A, though. How would you describe the detailed difference in sound between the Vacuvox and Magic Death Eye (if possible with words)? Do you use the MDE on single tracks from time to time?
I've been trying the MDE on many things, all with great results. The VacuVox I remember being really dimensional in the low end, great on the mix and bass. The MDE stands out in the upper mids. I related with the MDE more than the VV and found it more flexible. I didn't have long with the VV, just an afternoon, so there's a lot in them I did not discover.
Always love these demos. Great work.
Much appreciated! I'm thrilled I had the opportunity to do this one.
Thanks for taking so much time to make these videos. Excellent stuff. I love my unit even though I’ve one with the older designs and thus expensive tubes. I get that exact feeling. Sad when it’s off ! Ha. Quite right.
Ian had to fight hard to make the new ones as special as the one you have. Congrats on it!
Damn dude! Sounds so good! So stoked for you! Def translating oVer here.
Glad to hear it! When I went and checked the video on headphones I definitely heard it easier than when I was doing the quick samples in the room.
Thanks for the great demo!
My pleasure! Thanks for the comment love!
Another cool video, David. I had found your channel in my TH-cam feed, relating to the Flaming Lips' Zaireeka, and your features on cool, esoteric gear was a wonderful surprise. The sound of the Magic Eye is great, I wasn't aware of it before. Ian sounds like a real genius. Like you mention, the Magic Eye is more of a mastering compressor; to my ears, it takes what is already there and gives it a slight push in a natural sounding way. Transients come through excellent, and the high end on the transients seems to be doing something extra, like on the picking of the guitar or the snap of the snare. Bass is subtle, but nice, as well. Without actually using the Magic Eye and just based on your demos here, it is more like a Manley Vari-Mu to me; something that isn't really meant for high compression and extreme settings.
I think you're spot on with these insights! Thanks for finding the channel and exploring these other videos.
@@davidpetersmusic You are welcome! Appreciate these positive videos and your enthusiasm in this world right now, brother.
Thanks for the demo of this rare piece
My pleasure! I'm glad I have the opportunity. Thanks for the comment!
More content, more often!!!
Thanks
I wish I had more time! More in the works though. Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Great Video David and of course the plugin dont sound like the hardware but is really close.
From the hardware i really like the how the release tale sounds.
Thanks much! It's a very musical box. I always liked the plugin more than most, but it's hard to keep up with the hardware.
I was once on the waiting list for this, which was very slow, and then sadly it went US only. So I bought an Unfairchild and the accessory box when that came out which has been wonderful.
I had a similar story. The MDE was held up for a while due to getting parts and the tube redesign. I also waited on the POM list for a long time. Both eventually came though, it just took a while! Hoping things get to a more normal pace with all of these boxes soon.
@@davidpetersmusic yes the MDE sounds terrific - I had hoped Ian was going to get someone to manufacture them for him and make them more gettable - let's see!
This was a fabulous review. If you’ve got an Overstayer SVC, I’d love a review of that!
@@yurikalashnikov2460 I have a review up of the SFE, but I don’t own the SVC
Great video - always wanted to check one of those units out!
Me too! That's why I had to make a video once it ended up in here!
With respect to your question re: Peak limiting in a DAW . Try using a clipper before your "analog" bus comp plugin. It seems to make them work better. It might have to do with the idea that most, if not all classic designs were tested and tuned running signal off tape. Ever so slightly clipping before your main comp can go a little way to simulating this and it seems to take the extra stress of simulation process. When ITB I'll use an Oxford inflator or a Boz Labs Big Clipper before some G-Buss thing... the compression ends up sounding denser (which is good IMO) and more like the og analog equipment.
@@natlove219 solid thought!
@@davidpetersmusic remember, never use hard clipping, use soft clipping or limiting... :)
One „sickness“ of digital audio is that you often have, can have or have without anyone asking you, very sharp transients that are almost impossible to happen in the analog domain. We are living in the best times for audio processing to date.
Sometimes your clipper suggestion might work well, in other cases it might better to use a chain of compressors, each doing what they do well. For example using a very fast and clean compressor like the Tdr Kotelnikov you can catch the first milliseconds only (only the initial transient) in a very transparent way. Random example, set Attack to 00ms and release to 10-20ms and start lowering the threshold. You will notice that it can work wonders in making a clicky snare softer in a very transparent way, then you can of course tweak to liking cause there is not setting that covers all as we all know. Then later you can use a more distorted-colorful comp like a tube comp or whatever tickles your fancy to fatten it up etc etc.
Or you can use a slow attack like 25-40ms to let the transients through and the comp will concentrate on the body. This way you can massage things nicely together.
Clipping everything in the early stages while being a fast solution sometimes adds distortion that accumulates across many tracks that get added and can (no must but can) lead to a harsh mix later on.
It took me around 10+ years to realize that some people telling me that they can hear 0.3 db of compression difference where not necessarily lying. Learning a compressor inside out comes after learning to hear what compression does in the first place.
Not trying to play smart. Just posting some thoughts of the moment in case any newbies reading this thread find it useful.
Peace
@@GingerDrums hard clipping is many times better and almost inaudible when used on very fast transients. soft clipping can imprint too much color some times. Either way, most Limiters are at least dual stage meaning the have a limiter and a clipper inside. Some before the Limiting stage and some after. Sky is the limit
@@saardean4481 hard clipping creates insane rotation the moment any EQ gets applied. If your song gets put on radio, or a DJ tries to play it then all that hard clipping loudness disappears and you get a huge over. Never use hard clipping as you describe, it's a modern social media phonomenon, no MEs are actually doing this
damn, muchacho, this is the sexier, most badass, awesome sounding unit I have ever seen.
Because it's so subtle at first, it's hard to hear how special it is right away. The more time I spend with it, that more I respect how good it really is.
@davidpetersmusic it's beautiful, love
The build on the MDE is nice and chunky. Looks amazing. I like the illustrations on the meters as well.
It's as pretty as gear gets. The art is not just in the sound, but in the layout, the build quality, everything.
Love the Black Knight graphic on the HPF……’None Shall Pass!’…. Nicely done! subbed!
The plug in very one dimensional by comparison….
I think this device is phenomenal and what it does and how it does it I think since Designer is just a one-man operation, it would probably be an incredible move. If you could get some other company to mass produce them for him and that he could license the design and component list to them. I only say that, because I think something like this is incredibly useful and having it available on the water scale would be an amazing thing plus if something happens to him, and he passes away, There won’t be any support for his products anyhow, that’s just my two cents. phenomenal video and phenomenal device!
Not everyone is enjoying that scene, but I was actually proud of the Black Knight switch between "none shall pass" and "tis a flesh wound". Once you've seen 1000 compressors with the same controls, one needs to spice up looking at the 1001st!
thanks so much for the demonstration! really cool to hear this thing at last. didn't know ian was from creeper lagoon; also cool. believe it or not i can get my IGS Tubecore to sound just as good as the MDE on those drums (didn't try the full mix). the tubecore SC HPF is a little lower (120 Hz) so i had to cut a little bit more lows to get it in the same zone.
crazy how the plugin lacks the depth compared to both. i wonder why that is.
MDE on the full mix really reminds me of the Whitestone P331 demos I've heard. it adds a certain soft upper mid lift. I feel like the P331 does a similar soft tube lift slightly lower into the mids.
thanks again, david!
There are so many great boxes out there these days. The differences between them can seem like splitting hairs, but sometimes it's those subtle things that make you love a box or not. It's so subjective. That upper-mid thing you hear on the MDE is something that really works for me.
I've never tried the IGS, but I'm glad to hear you're getting it to speak well!
I'm very thankful for plugins, but I think the complexity of what's happening in the analog domain is still hard to replicate completely. I always end up having to use both, and I'm happy both are there!
I heard it immediately, playing back on my iPhone.
I'm impressed! If it makes a difference on an iPhone, then it's a meaningful difference!
You're not kidding about subtle! My word.
Hard to hear there? Even the pushed settings?
Amazing
Agreed.
What a lovely unit David. Bit jealous here... When you pushed the compression on the instrumental, the difference with the plugin became really huge. Disappointing to only have the plugin. That being said, with the drumloop, the difference was less notable. Some comfort in the end...😉
The plugin does a great job capturing the hardware, it's just hardware vari-mu compressors have the ability to clip transients a bit, allowing for more loudness. It's not really a fair fight for the plugin, but it is reality. I'm surprised the drum sample didn't highlight it as much! That plugin sample really impressed me.
It's hard to believe clipping could sound that good... kind crazy. it's like it makes the impulse response in the room bigger.
The clipping in vari-mu comps is part of what makes them special. It's not just the Death Eye. But this box does it very nicely!
Great Demo brother!!!
Thanks for the good word!
Прекрасное устройство с великолепным звуком! Звучит гораздо веселее плагина. Спасибо!
The plugin definitely doesn't give the same weight to the mix. The hardware perfectly glues the bass and the drums, smooths out the mids and also adds a bit of sheen to highs. The plugin, however, doesn't glue the bass and the drums in the same way and doesn't have that high frequency sheen.
Tube gear in general is really hard for plugins to keep up with. It's more than just the saturation, but I'm not sure what.
The hardware, off then on, really gives a sort of "life" to it, which is nuts because the mix is already great. I wonder if the plugin has perfectly matched, identical "treatment" in the signal path. Basically a digital clone, so that L equals R in all manners. Unlike any piece of hardware, that will havevery slight tolereances differences that may account for more "wideness" or "3D" effects? I find the hardware slightly wider and less center focused and the plugin with a really forward center image. Great vid!
I imagine there are lots of things that contribute to the sense of difference. The dimensionality and naturalness of tubes and transformers has always been hard for plugins to capture. That said, I think the plugin does a nice job!
@davidpetersmusic i think someone else mentioned the oversampling feature on the plugin. Did you get a chance to try it out and conpare? If yes, any noticeable change?
great review but would have enjoyed seeing the insides and tubes / how many tubes there are etc.
Tubes are on the back of the unit. Four tubes for each channel, so eight in total. I believe there are pictures on the Magic Death Eye website.
The hardware is more open & just reacts much better. The 1st setting with 1db of compression did something really special to the transients almost like a VCA but much better.
That's more how it's meant to be used, with those first settings. That's how I've been using it mostly.
That box sounds fantastic, the hardware sounds more open in my opinion.
The hardware does that live tube thing that's hard for plugins to capture. That said, the plugin is doing a pretty good job.
Great video David! I have one of these too, same revision. Question - how hard are you hitting the input on this, not including the input gain (ie what level is coming out of your DAW)?
@@lancepowell8561 we still don’t have power after the fire, otherwise I would open up a session and look. I’m guessing peaks are hitting no higher than -6. If all the knobs are at 12 o’clock, I tend to get 1DB of compression, maybe 2. Which is just how I like it!
When you pushed the hardware it really showed its true colors! No plugin can live up to hardware. Does your version have the older tubes or the newer ones?
Mine is the new version with the 12AU7. I have some NOS tubes in mine and some modern.
For my taste, this is the best finisher comp ever! How or where can I order one? Because if I understand correctly, this is something that you can not buy anywhere.
Email me though the website in the video description. I'll see if i can find out how things are moving over there.
i´m always using the perceived loudness when comparing dynamic processors - the level gain through saturation/clipping just isn´t a fair comparison i think. HOFA has a nice plugin for that called blind test. i did many comparisons with that and learned some interesting truths! great unit, great guy, great video - much thanks from berlin at 4 am)
Thanks back to Berlin! (after 4am) My goal was more to showcase the differences between the hardware and software. The natural clipping is a meaningful difference, not just between hardware and software, but in the end results they produce in a mix. One way or another, those peaks need to be dealt with. I enjoy how vari-mu compressors do some of that work for you!
@@davidpetersmusic and you sure know a ton more about this than i do!
i own a POM fairchild (w original transformers) and a phoenix and i love them both, even if i don´t know what they´re doing)
and the reason i´m awake in the middle of the night is probably because i´m getting a 1978 4032 harrison console on monday! i see you have a studer - i used to have a 169 & 269, beautiful sounding consoles.
Congrats on the Harrison! ...and the POM+Phoenix! I had a POM here recently for a short time. I'm sad the the timing wasn't right for me to keep it. It's lovely.
@@senorcoconut-f1odid you buy the Harrison from Robert with the additional PSU? I also have been thinking about it for some weeks… 😅
@@tihinter i did!
PSA! Ian doesn’t sell many of these for reasons explained here ⬆️… but if you want this tone get him to master your tracks. He’s f**king great : DARK SKY MASTERING .. get some!
He definitely has a deeply musical ear!!!
@@davidpetersmusic his ear/taste reminds me of George Marino's. I got to sit in with him many a time and I loved the way he could dig out another 10% out of the tracks. Please keep on going with your vids David. I really like your style. Merry Xmas from Australia.
I only recently discovered the Death Eye but it's really nice on my mixes and I do pretty aggresive techno stuff for clients! Very musical.
Anyway regarding the video. I'm watching this on my 100$ bluetooth inears and the difference with hardware engaged is very clear. I actually also notice the difference with the plugin verrrry clearly. The hardware is way more forgiving and open sounding. You can hear the stereo image is wider, the plugin narrows it quite a bit...
...until you start pushing the input gain. To me it sounds like at higher input gain when the tubes are being driven a bit the hardware and software seem closer. This is also what I've found on some UAD clones from LA2A for instance. The default plugins settings are already giving quite some color like you would get after driving the unit pretty hard.
I guess for the application of your song the subtle of the hardware sounds better. But I think if you'd anyway drive the hardware more the plugin comes quite close. Would've been cool to have a bit more subtle and open sounding options on the plugin too, but alas.. that's plugin world.
One last note: it's very unclear to me if the plugin actually oversamples and whether or not it does so effectively. Perhaps this is the reason that it sounds a bit more transparent!
I think I missed some of the plugin features. People have mentioned "secret modes", oversampling, etc. If I discover something new there, maybe I'll run some additional comparisons.
i always start new gear on drums too
@@wyrlismike Fastest way to feel how it grabs!
Thanks so much for this well produced and funny video! I could’ve gone up to the studio and listened to my barefoots but to my surprise I could hear the subtle differences on my iPad Pro, even with my drummer’s ears! Hey, I’ve been looking for an engineer to review my drum recording process at my studio in Silverlake, I would be curious to know if this is something that might interest you for a consultation fee?
Happy to help you with your spot. I enjoy consulting on studios. You can email me thought the website linked in the description!
Sounds nice! I do like your hardware a bit more I think. Have you checked out UAD's CM5511 "Capitol Mastering Compressor" plugin?
I don't have any UAD here, but I believe the hardware is an Ian build as well!
@@davidpetersmusic You don't need UAD hardware for most of their plugins now They can run natively on your PC.
Thank you for the wonderful video.
While not a hardwear fanatic, this compressor i would love as hardwear. Fantastic piece of gear.
Nice tube mush with a nice sheen topping to finish it off. At 18:50 i don`t like the sound. Completely killed the body of the snare but i reckon the settings were a bit extreme in favor of the demonstration.
The plugin sounds very good too but nothing to write home about. However i would love if you would tweak a bit the plugin in the video.
I have better suited plugins for my taste
@@saardean4481 I have long enjoyed the plugin, but the hardware is just effortless and adds a sweetness that is never too much. It’s a subtle box, but that’s its magic.
@@davidpetersmusic Agree sounds very good. But the price is a bit insane imho. Lucky you though
Great unit, both the hardware and the plugin. Hardware/plugin comparison had a noticeable, subjective volume boost when the hardware was engaged so not entirely fair. So, hard to judge that but seemed like the hardware just did better (as usual).
I wanted to highlight that loudness boost because it's particular to vari-mu tube units when pushed. It's something plugin don't do as much. So yes, that test was unfair!
any advice on getting the analog version of the compressor i looked on the net / not much comes up / the plug in does ,. i would rather have the real deal ,. cheers
Your best best is emailing Magic Death Eye directly. The info should be on the website.
I'm listening to this through a bluetooth bar from Xiaomi, and i do hear some difference. In every comparison. Albeit very subtle indeed.
I like it
me too
It’s crazy it do something like u said u feel it
That's how I first noticed it - in my gut before it was in my ears.
I volume matched a bit between the Engaged and Bypassed (Which is something you should have done yourself), and I didn't notice that much of a difference if any at all besides ONLY volume. IDK.
They are peak matched and that choice was purposeful. (which you could have figured out yourself) 😉 I was trying to showcase the difference between driving the plugin and driving the hardware. The driven hardware produces more loudness at the same peak level. It's a meaningful difference to be aware of. The other samples were peak matched and similar in loudness. A little bit of everything.
thx. very suttle, but thats why is so nice! But at higher settings realy fatten it up. But still very gentle.
Agreed ageed!
9:54 i need this wtf?????
It kinda works, right?
sounds like a suede heated blanket
Love the metaphor! My other favorite in the comments was "sounds like you're in the shire when it's on"
Yes, you can hear the difference.
I'm glad it's translating
Feels like you’re in the shire when its on.. feels not done when its off
This metaphor is amazing.
Very nice hardware, very £$£$ as well...
Both true!
The analog unit sounds relaxed compared to the plug-in
Truth.
eat your heart out, BG1!
Those Altecs sitting above are my "Highland-transformed BG1", which are also very useful! 😇
another gear peace need would be the LAAL the look ahead limiter by HUM audio ,. ya its , , ,, , , , . . . 8 GRAND ,. .
I keep seeing the LAAL being talked about! I've never heard one myself. I'm really happy with the Pundulum limiter I have, but I'm always curious what's new out there.
The plug-in is fine but the hardware sounds like money
Agreed. That's why the hardware costs money!
@ sigh 😮💨. I feel like it takes a chain of carefully chosen plugins with very deliberate settings to achieve what a one piece of hardware can do. Ok back to work!
Sound same but that on mobile
Hard to hear this kind of stuff on mobile for sure!
Thanks for the review, can you do versions without all the visual jokes? Very distracting for me.
I was thinking I may have went a bit too far on this one...
my snare drums sits at 100hz to be honest
That's a low snare drum!
You totally miss it when its turned off, hiw much are they? Ha!
Just over 10 these days I believe.
Damn the plugin doesnt even come close lmao
The "pushed" test is cheating a little due to the tube clipping at those input volumes.
Hell nah. Creepy as fugg
I can't tell if this is a compliment or criticism! haha
@davidpetersmusic both lol
Cool little box! Might be even more helpful without the commentary while you mess with the settings. It would allow people to hear it better and arrive at their own conclusions. Thanks for this video!
I always wonder about the commentary. Maybe next time I'll save it for after the samples or type out something if I feel it should be said. Thanks for the thoughts!
The plugin is flat by comparison.
different settings
different settings? As in you'd like to hear different settings? ...or the plugin used different settings?
With the knobs in the same place they were very different volumes and amount of compression. I chose to get them as close as I could by ear and meter readings.
$10k lmao no
It makes more sense to match loudness, not peak level. I get you're intentionally clipping on the hardware, which the plugin does not do on the same settings, but since the plugin gain structure is clearly not the same, it's not really a fair comparison. Great video otherwise!
I had the same debate here: peak or loudness comparisons. The more standard settings were a decent test for matched loudness. The pushed settings I wanted to show that clipping. One of my problems with plugin compressors is they tend to create more peak jumps than they tame, which means another clipping or limiting process is required later. If I want to show the differences between using the two, that's a big one.
Plug ins are just terrible to me haha.
I'm thankful for them when they do something hardware doesn't. Some of the cleaner utility ones are helpful. The rest I avoid as much as I can lately.
Curious as to which ones you like!
Deep, dark, hidden secrets. Nah, I just use utility stuff like FabFilter, etc when I need to automate corrective changes, etc.