Muzzle Brake Noise?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มิ.ย. 2023
- How much difference to the sound does a muzzle brake actually make?
FYI, just a basic test, not scientific, comparison value only....
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Great video again :) Retired sound engineer here. Could it also be the pressure wave is sent sidewards and rearwards as well downrange with a brake as opposed to mostly downrange with no brake? The 'loudness' difference being the same as standing in front of subs at a festival, it physically moves the air and ground around your body more, and your brain does the math? Very interesting subject
Thanks man, as for pressure wave/waves, some times many, and yes they may influence.... could go way over board testing here, lol, Cheers
The PVA Jet Blast, 3 and 4 Port, Brakes produce, LESS Blast / "Concussion" at, the Shooter & way BETTER than anything, we've used, in my Family & now have, 4 of them !
I was in the middle of typing this as a hypothesis when I saw your comment.
I have older hunting rifles, none of which have muzzle breaks or threaded barrels, so this was very informative.
My personal experience from the range is that rifles with muzzle breaks seem louder.
Yep, Cheers
They are way louder. Anyone that’s shot one at game with no ears in knows this lol
That was very interesting , i've always wondered if they were extremely louder or is that what our ears are telling us ?? Great video Mark 👍
Thanks Shane
Your brakes are some of the highest quality I've seen. Appreciate the knowledge u share here, in the process of bedding my chassis after watching one of your recent videos on that subject
Awesome, Mna, thanks
Every video i learn something thank you Mark and Sam take care and stay safe cheers Yogi 👍
Thanks Yogi
Great review Mark. My experience with others using muzzle brakes in range conditions is nothing short of unpleasant. Many years ago a pal was shooting his .270 Win rifle with a Browning BOSS equipped rifle. Shooting positions are approximately 2 meters apart. With my usual hearing protectors ( I was also shooting a .270) the noise or perhaps the concussion significantly hurt my ears. No permanent damage hopefully but not a situation I wish to repeat.
Yes, they are not that nice to shoot along side, not close anyway, Cheers
Interesting, I've definitely noticed brakes are a lot louder under the low tin roof at our range, another observation I've found is that when chasing feral pigs, etc, with no brake they'll take off exactly away from your position but with a brake they look more confused about where the sound is coming from and run around in circles, etc ???,.
Maybe the brake spreads the sound in different directions so they cant determine the exact source ???, anyone else noticed this effect ??,
Shoulda mentioned, this was with a 4AW brake, so order one, the are AWESOME :)
cheers,
Dave
Thanks Dave, Cheers
I have with the tin roof at the range, never had a chance to chase hogs. I would suspect that the concussion that the shooter and others feel plays a role in perceiving brakes as louder whether or not they actually are at the time. I may be wrong on that though, I don't know. Keep up the good work guys!
I have been in the woods hunting deer and a friend was 50 yards from me . He took a shot on a nice buck in the opposite direction . I observed the deer I was watching and all they did was look up and then went back to eating .
On the other hand , I have made a slight move with a creaky stand and the deer have bolted . You just never know . Lol
Even with a silencer a dee will hear it .
I think there is some truth to dispersement of sound with a muzzle break confusing an animal as to where it should go .
Interesting video, and interesting comments on the video.
Thanks Mark and Sam. Keep up the good work.👍🏼
Thanks Mike
Pretty cool test indeed. Thanks!
I may compare it to being beside speakers playing loud music instead of being behind, the volume is at the same level but the direction of the sound is more toward our ears, so we perceive it louder. Of course any reflecting wall or surface will affect this too.
Like If you place you hands behind your ears to make a cup shape, imitating say, deer ears, you will hear more details and sound will be perceived louder, but the level of the sound is the same, you just added increased area for the sound to come and reflect into you ears.
Kind of the inverse effect a muzzle break does, instead of increasing ear capacity, you "turn the speaker" more toward your ears, so it dissipate sound more efficiently and directionnaly toward our ears, with the same kind of results.
Thanks Man
Very interesting. I'm somewhat into acoustics and have wondered what actual effect muzzle brakes would have in this regard. A good working test, complex enough without going to the extremes of scientific rigour (as you explained). Thanks for yet again adding to my knowledge Mark!
Thanks Geoff, Cheers Man
Very informative and interesting as always Mark. Thank you.
I know it's not quite on the same level, but I do a lot of air rifle shooting in the UK, at my local range recently I've noticed a few people using Air Strippers, and there's a notable increase in report from them.
Quite a loud, almost crack of air pressure, even at just 12ft/lb muzzle energy.
Cheers Sam
Appreciate the info Mark!
Thanks Jason
Thanks for the great video.
I was out hunting plains elk in Colorado. I have a radial brake on my Browning X-bolt .270. I forgot my ear defenders and really didn’t notice the sound being that loud. Of course the adrenaline is up.
We have a 100yd range to shoot at which is pretty much in a hole and has a metal awning over the top of the shooting benches. That is when it does seem louder. But even the none muzzle breaks seem loud of course the sound is echoing off the walls of the range and tin awning.
Thanks Bryce, Cheers
Very interesting information. Thanks for doing the test M&S ✨🇺🇲🌟🇺🇸✨
Cheers Tate
Thanks for this valuable information , always wondered about this but had no way of measuring it !…… Regards to Sam .
Thanks Tom, cheers
Good video interesting I never used a muzzle brake at all as I had always thought they were noisier goes to show I was wrong as your figures show thanks for posting Mark 👍👍
Cheers Dave. Thanks
Great video!
I hunt with a muzzle break on a 7mm rem mag and a 6.5cm. I have noticed, particularly in the 6.5cm when shooting into a group of animals, they seem to have trouble working out where the sound has come from. They tend to mill around and I often get to shoot a second or third before they take off. My assumption is they don’t want to run until they know which direction the danger is coming from.
That would make sense, thanks Daniel, Cheers
3 years ago I got serious ear injury with ear plugs in,not tight enough. Muzzle brake was 4" in from end of shooting bench. Shock wave off the table rang my ears so bad I heard crickets and buzzing for 3 months. Ears are still sensitive. Wish suppresors were legal without fingerprints registered to FBI
Thanks Mike, Cheers
Very good, thank you.
👍😎
Very interesting material. 👍
Pozdrawiam z Polski 🇵🇱
Cheers
Thanks to you and Sam for “filling in the blanks”!
Cheers Howard
Now its got me thinking about those "blast projectors" that are around. Never been near a firearm with one & not even sure if they legal or affect recoil to a noticable effect(?)
Very very interesting stuff.
Cheers
Hi mark and Sam. This it a very complicated question. You have to look at sound waves rather noise levels as you found the noise level were about the same. What effect is sound waves reflecting off objects and each other. It’s like throwing a stone into smooth water you see the ripples going out in all directions. When you use two stones at the same time you get the same ripples but at some points the hit each other. They cancel one other or make a longer wave. So the same with sound once the sound waves bump into each outher it’s not louder it’s longer to the perceived ear. And depends on where you are and what’s round you. Hope this helps as it’s a very complicated subject and difficult to explain in simple terms. Bob.
Thanks Bob, noise cancelling sound is a very specific science, not something you will find created in these sort of conditions, Cheers
This is not sound cancel it’s reflection.
I think the airpresure (shock wave) that gets re directed back to the shooter cobined with sound at the same time make that we asociate it with more noise. And I think thats why there is no noticeable DB difference on your measurements as the measure sound and not presure.
Cheers
I'd also be interested to hear your take on brakes and concussion vs sounds (perceived or measured)
All on the channel, How to find you answers/info on the channel th-cam.com/video/lWohyYEn-wc/w-d-xo.html
Mark... I’ve gotten 2 of your brakes. A 4-Port for my 300WSM and a 3-Port for my granddaughter’s .308Win... People at my local range love the looks of the brakes. The side blast ? Not so much...!!!
Thanks Tommy, and yes that where they put the blast, lol, Cheers
The guy directly next to me at the range the other day was shooting a 16" .308 AR-10 with a brake, about 4 feet from my face... I had to put a second set of ear pro, but the concussion was still obnoxious, if not painful. I just used it as an opportunity for training to shoot under stress LOL.
Lol, yes not nice at all, Cheers
Hi . my thoughts about a Mbrake is not loader,but more a pressure wave that hit you as a range officer. As for me a let it go , because anything is fine if you get more rifles on the range. thnx for the vid!
Thanks Man, Cheers
Interesting. I wondered this too. Certain brakes do reduce recoil more than others so I thought the difference in energy would be equate in a difference in volume . Apparently not though
Thanks Rob
All I can say is that in New Jersey, USA, where every semi-auto rifle has a muzzle brake on it, the indoor ranges are full of ARs that can nearly knock your hat off from the next lane over. I honestly don’t like muzzle brakes, unless it’s on a rifle (or in a scenario) where it actually makes sense.
For a guy like Mark who at times shoots some larger caliber precision rifles outdoors, a muzzle brake can come in handy. In that case the sound isn’t an issue, because you’re actually gaining a real advantage. Outside of situations where you aren’t gaining an advantage, i.e. it’s a mandated law, I’m not a fan.
Edit by the end: Totally agree, great explanation.
Yes, as said, not range friendly items, Cheers
@@markandsamafterworkYep I agree entirely, 100%, with your thoughts here after finishing the vid.
Resonance factored out, note Db(a) readings are exponentially increasing
Yep, part of it, Cheers
Thanks, that was rather interesting. After having my hat and my butler-creek scope cap blown off by a braked .338 Lapua in the next shooting lane, I have wondered whether we experience muzzle blast as "louder".
Cheers Pete
That's one hell of a brake to blow stuff off.
@@bmstylee it had me flinching for the rest of the day!
@@peterconnan5631 sadly I think I gave a kid a flinch. I was doing load development on my 338 Lapua. I was on a 200 yard range when a dad and a kid with a 243 that looked like a first deer rifle came on about 20 minutes after me. I let them know what I was shooting and that it was probably not going to be pleasant to be near. Dad said not to worry. After the first 5 shot group they moved about 15 yards the other way. I guess they didn't dig the blast off my brake. If a silencer for a 338 wasn't so damn expensive I would buy one. I just don't want to spend the $1500 or so for one.
Hunting with a ported marlin 45-70 lever gun from a wooden ground blind. When I shot, the reflection off the wall was like being slapped. Glad I had ears on.
Lol, yep, Cheers
The perception of sound is an amazing thing. I have hearing issues that requires hearing aids. My left ear seems to have more difficulty hearing but in fact it works better than my right ear. The perception and interpretation by the brain is mind boggling and confusing at times.
Thanks Dave
I'd be interested to see some testing on the APW Warbird suppressor with the muzzle brake on the end.
Ask those guys to do some tests, suppressor's are not legal here
@markandsamafterwork ah my mistake... I'm in kiwiland....
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I run a brake on my rifles for various reasons. I can attest my 338 Lapua definitely does not make me any friends on a rifle range. That boy is loud even when using plugs under my electronic hearing pro.
Yes, not a range gun man, Cheers
Very interesting indeed. The perception is that a brake is louder (even in an open space), but clearly it is not reality.
Cheers Man
What's your thoughts on the EC tuner brake?. Im thinking about getting one for my CZ 600 Range 308.
Not something we use, never found the need, Cheers
I just like the way they sweep off the neighbors bench at the local gun club.
Cheers
😄👍‼️
Cheers Man
I noticed that some rifle manufacturers OEM brakes are not size unique ie. a .300 and a .338 get the same brake for sale . This will make the .300 brake much less effective .
Make a small difference, not a lot, Cheers
The concussion makes you feel it louder with muzzles break.
Cheers
Not louder in decibels... Same decibels more highly concentrated in a given direction.
Is that a fair summation?
Sort of, Cheers Jack
I went hunting and you don’t typically use hearing protection with hunting with a muzzle brake and screwed up my left ear. I think it has to do with concussion and not necessarily sound.
Cheers Man
Why have top slot muzzle brakes gone out of vogue ? I put one on my Swede & it shot higher.
We have videos to explain about muzzle brakes.... Cheers
Very interesting video I cancelled my membership with a big Australia wide Ass. because they refused to allow me on their ranges with a muzzle brake.
Yes, ranges and muzzle brakes rarely mix, Cheers Man
Concussive wave distribution, proximity to muzzle blast and the db increase (scientific formula) equates too the use of effective hearing protection. For any rifle range "mandatory" hearing protection should be a requirement, once you enter the shooting area, double protection is best, electronic headset over soft plugs. Tinnitus is no fun, hearing loss and the use of hearing aids, is no fun. Shooting is fun, but, be smart.
Yep, thanks Don, Cheers
I can do shotguns under for with Sordins only no problem. But I was next to 5.56 AR15 with a muzzle brake, earplugs under the Sordins and it was still almost painful.
Theres a very easy solution for the ‘extra sound’ created by shooting muzzle brakes at ranges indoors etc… all u have to do is buy u a pair of mechanical filtered ear plugs to pit on and then put your electronic muffs ocer those theyre cheap like $10 for a nice solid performing pair of ear plugs and u wont notice that much of a difference between muzzle beake and no brake other than the concussion waves hitting u theres no solution for that besides a suppressor but other than that ur ears dont get damaged and fatigued plus j can still hear jus as good as long as ur using electronic ear pro u can withstand to shoot way way more with brakes but eventually the pressure waves do start to fatigue ur eyes so unfortunately theres still a lil bit of things u have to accept dealing with while using brakes theyre way more than worth it if u ask me in fact i wouldnt try shooting long range without them not even rimfire they jus bring too much benefit to the shooting experience especially when shooting long range then theyre damn near invaluable
Yes, all things have there place, use them in there place, all is good, lol, Cheers
Could be wrong - db is not linear , each additional db is doubling the sound isn’t it ?
Not a sound engineer, but sure can tell you 101dB has no noticeable difference to 100dB, more than 5dB at that level to even notice a difference, Cheers
you got one thing there , for every 3db increase you dubbel the sound (1db is about 25% lounder or lower, 3db is 2x more sound . sound Energy is amost as high, so the sound is felt a lot in differens when you talk 1 digits)
At low levels that is the case, but 100dB to 103dB is not a discernable difference, or around 3% so not relevant at these levels, Cheers
I switched to a moderator as I can find brakes can make my ears ring even with muffs and plugs if I'm next to one.
Cheers
Fired a 300Blk equipped with a brake in a small gully once without hearing protection and just about blew the eardrums right out of my head. Painful! Ringing ears for a week or two afterwards. Never again.
Yep, Cheers
think people are perceiving pressure as sound
Can be part of it, Cheers
Your data isn't making sense to me. You're seeing peak sound in the 114db range. Every other study I've seen published on this has peak volume at the shooter in the 150-180db range. This is a couple orders of magnitude difference from your data. 22lr is generally cited at around 140db and below 130db is consider hearing safe...so your data seems way off to me. Am I missing something here?
Yes I would agree the readings where all lower than expected, possibly the peek spike is not captured with these tools, maybe the position of mic's, but as explained, not a scientific test, just a comparison between all that was explained, Cheers
Could be wrong , thought db isn’t linear - each db doubles the sound ?
@@keithfalcao1844 You’re right it’s not linear, but I think it’s more like 3db doubles the sound energy.
@@markandsamafterwork I did a little looking and it appears there are two different types ways of measuring sound, sometimes sound meters can only do one or the other. “A-frequency-weighting” is more commonly used but “C-frequency-weighting” is used for gunshots or explosions. This is signified by the notation dB(A) or dB(C). I wonder if your meter is doing the “A” variant? Might be why you are getting lower than expected readings?
Anyway, thanks for spurring the conversation, I learned something new 😎
A scientific test would be done in a controlled laboratory setting and not real life. Better to be real than theoretical.
Thanks Pete
In fairness most guns aren't shot in controlled environments so a laboratory setting wouldn't accurately represent the perceived noise differences a person shooting a rifle on a range would. Best to test things that like the way they're used
Except you can have a muzzle brake that does not make the rifle louder to the operator, or those standing 90 degrees from it. There is a muzzle brake design that can do this and still reduce recoil. How does it do it? First see how most all muzzle brakes work. Holes are made to direct escaping gases reward to eliminate recoil. In the process it also directs sound and debris backward toward people. Not a good thing even though recoil is reduced. A better design is to make a muzzle brake that directs escaping gases slightly forward. Yes, slightly forward. Hear me out..... Suppose you had a barrel that directed all of the gases straight forward. That barrel would have 100% recoil. Now take a second barrel that has a muzzle brake which has slightly forward facing holes drilled in it. We now have maybe 50% of the gases going forward and 50% going slightly forward. With this configuration of a muzzle brake not only is the recoil reduced but the noise and debris is reduced also. Another way to look at this is imagine we explode a gas in a plugged tube with only 90 degree holes at one end. There will be no recoil. Slightly move the holes forward. There will be just a little recoil. Gentry is an example. Not affiliated with them.
We have videos to explain about muzzle brakes, lots more details too it, FYI noise is not one of the features most are concerned with, lol, Cheers