If there is anyone who has rewritten this episode to solve all its script problems, I would love to read it. Get the same end result (add Thorax to the cast and as Spike's friend), but without all of the character stupidity.
I did a rewrite of this episode a few years back. Don't know if it fixes *ALL* the problems, but if you're curious you can read it for yourself and see what you think.
This is one of those episodes that has such huge and annoying flaws in it that drive me crazy. But despite that and how rushed a lot of it felt..It is definitely one of my most rewatched episodes. I will forever love Thorax's original form. he was so much extra cuter before being sacrificed to the Hasbro toyline gods.
@@JellyFishGell it would’ve been nice if they got more defining features while still keeping the of design. Like, minor color palette changes or definitive hole markings.
0:35 I am getting the feeling that Littleshy is actually literally just pulling "Starlight Glimmer" through tons of auto-subtitle, speech-to-text and google translate.
Personally, I think this is the best Spike episode. He isn't irritatingly oblivious and isn't trying to do something for gain. He actually wants to help Thorax fit in, and the two form a pretty good friendship. The song Spike sings is great, too. This is my favorite Spike episode.
Didn't work for me, at all. Personally there's no doubt about the best Spike episode and that's Gauntlet of Fire by miles. Only other one in contention is the arguably underrated Just for Sidekicks which at least is decently amusing.
For a moment I thought you were going to forget to sin when Twilight said "this is getting out of hand". I should've known better. You had me scared for a second.
"The Times They Are A Changeling" is one of my favorite Spike episodes! both because we meet Thorax the first ever good Changeling and because Spike made a new friend, and of course to this day "A Changeling Can Change" is one of my all time favorite mlp songs! However Spike was lucky he was singing that song in a cartoon because you know in real life no one would change their perspective about something because someone sang a song about it even if the song was right about everything. Anyway overall i enjoy this episode, even though it has it's ups and downs like all episodes do.
About the song section - it reminds me of Detroit, lol, hah Markus and others androids sings a song* humans: oh my gosh, it was so heartbreaking, we should stop shooting them, they are actually alive! 😂
Yeah gonna have to agree with 3:26 Spike should have suggested to Twilight about the possibility of a friendly changeling and Twilight should have dismissed Spike's idea only to be introduced to "Crystal Hoof". That way it wouldn't be a sudden change of heart but rather a cautious introduction between the races.
@@LittleshyFiM One reason I have somewhat high hopes for G5. We saw them taking on some difficult topics in the movie and actually handle them pretty well without dumbing things down all the time. The characters felt less one-dimensional. I was worried that Hitch would be another Spike, then this moment happened. "I'm the last real friend you've got in this town. Do you really want to lose me too?" *Stares her down when she looks away. Based af* Me: Wow, umm... okay. I stand corrected on him being another Spike. He could have handled that better. Bringing her dad into it was out of line. But still, props to him for having an actual backbone.
Spike being the "smartest character in the show," such as teaching the lesson of giving others a chance and the importance of extending friendship, you have to make him the only naive fool and everyone else as the unreasonable fools. So, the crux of the problem with Spike - and episodes featuring him - is that everyone else must get dragged down if you want him to shine at all.
I'm pretty much in agreement with the rest of the comments section: your points are all correct, and yet even with ALL THESE SINS, it's *still* somehow the best Spike episode out there. (...Mostly because Thorax is just a sweetheart and best boy, though.)
This could have been so much more. Spike is living evidence of his own argument; if a _dragon_ can fit into equine society and even be revered in a city made of his favorite food, then surely a changeling can amend his ways. Of course, it doesn't help that "repentant changeling hiding among ponies" had been done dozens if not hundreds of times over by fanfic authors before this episode aired. I suppose they can only fit in so much in 22 minutes.
To be honest, despite the many amount sins we have for this episode, it's still one of my Top favorites of the series because Spike is at his best here and Thorax is the most adorable character that I want to give him a thousand hugs because of society being mean (Or Racist) to him!😊 Also, that end joke from 'The Lion King' was hilarious!😁
I was waiting for at least one crystal pony to point out that Crystal Hoof is a complete stranger to the entire empire, despite the empire being the only place crystal ponies are from.
I love how Spike was willing to see there was more to a changeling than being the monster everyone assumed them to be. I just wish he and other characters did that during the series finale.
But they did. Starlight offered Chrysalis a second chance, heck the whole Discord thing was him trying to rehabilitate the trio. But the point of those episodes is that not everyone will want to change.
@@clairevoyance3476: but they did want to change. Frenemies nearly directly said they wanted to be good. And Discord was not trying to help them at all. He was only trying to boost Twilight’s confidence to be ruler. It was even him who decided to torture the trio at the end instead of try to help them. What Starlight did was great for season 6 and Chrysalis directly declined, but she was not in a position to say yes with Starlight announcing Thorax as the new leader just a minute before. And Chrysalis does not speak for the other two when she was rejecting friendship. She was the only one with a hostile expression when they were stoned while the other two were scared. The fact of the matter is that no one cared at all to help them in the end.
@@shadowspector3611 Let me remind you that Sombra got completely obliterated. Being turned into a statue pretty much is those 3 getting a chance to be reformed. After all, it worked out pretty good when it comes to reforming Discord, despite all the problems he caused throughout the show. There is no reason those 3 can't be turned back to normal and reformed. But there is also no chance of them being reformed if they are merely put in prison. They have to be given the option between being turned back into a statue again and giving up on the whole taking over Equestria/getting revenge thing. A low bar to clear for getting their freedom back and an inescapable punishment if they refuse to cooperate. Anything else won't even have a chance of working after what happened in the finale.
@@rendomstranger8698: Discord literally said that the trio would be there forever and he also confirmed when he was freed that being turned to stone doesn’t stop you from hearing everything. It was basically more merciful for Sombra to get obliterated than for the trio to be trapped forever in one place while still fully conscious. Also, being turned to stone does absolutely nothing for how they can be redeemed. If you notice, every time there is a punishment for a villain, it never helps them. The only time the villain actually changes is when the heroes actually lend out a hand to help them. They would’ve been better off in Tartarus actually contemplating what they’ve done since we see in the premiere that it hadn’t taken a toll on Cozy and Tirek’s mind yet. Not to mention with them in Tartarus, Equestria was literally experiencing its longest period of peace, so there is no reason why Tartarus wouldn’t have been the better option. Giving them the choice between giving friendship a chance and being contained is a good thing because then they would actually be given a chance, but the princesses and Discord didn’t want to help them at all. They were actively smiling as they were subjecting them to torture, and like I said before, Discord confirmed it would be permanent. They could’ve gotten the same outcome though if they just put the trio in Tartarus to contain them. It was confirmed to hold them just fine and would’ve made Equestria perfectly safe as Celestia declared in the premiere. Also, giving up on their efforts to take over Equestria may be a “low bar,” but keep in mind that Starlight destroyed Equestria several times and even ended all life on Equestria the final time. And even after she directly saw what her actions would do, she still tried to make it happen. All that needed to happen though was for Twilight to lend out a hoof to help her, something that would’ve actually worked with the Legion of Doom since we saw in Frenemies that they actually wanted to change. Instead of any of the morally right things though, we got three helpless villains, one of which was a child, tortured endlessly by the “heroes” of Equestria, each with sadistic smiles on their faces as they did it. Everything about what happened in that moment is just so wrong.
@@shadowspector3611 Since when does Discord decide whether or not a villain gets a chanced to be reformed? Answer, he doesn't. Besides, he has no problems with lying. And as you said, those 3 can hear him while being turned to stone. As for Tartarus, fat lot of good that did. Tikek managed to escape after spending a millennium in Tartarus and didn't reform. And working together with Cozyglow made it clear that he had no intention to learn friendship by the end of the finale. I don't think anything needs to be said about Crysalis. She straight up rejected Starlights offer for friendship and immediately swore revenge after being blasted by the magic of friendship. Not the slightest hint of regret or the slightest indication that things had changed from when she rejected Starlights offer for friendship. As for Cozyglow, she was taught the magic of friendship. She even showed that she was capable of a real act of selflessness to clear the names of the CMC. Yet, look at what a piece of work she turned out to be. She might be a child, but she is the worst out of all 3. If anyone can find a way to get out of Tartarus while Cerberus is present, it's her. Again, being truly unable to escape is the only way in which there is a chance of reforming those 3. All 3 have already had the chance of accept friendship. All 3 of them rejected it. Fully rejected it, unlike Starlight who simply didn't understand it. While Starlight also rejected friendship at the start of season 5, she did it out of fear. Those 3 on the other hand know exactly how powerful friendship is. Tirek knew it when he ignored Scorpan and was reminded when all the magic in Equestria wasn't enough to beat it. Chrisalis saw it several times. And Cozyglow was straight up taught about it. There was no way they would have accepted friendship during the finale and no way to safely contain them without turning them to stone.
Bonus sin: if you think about it logically then the rest of the hive would want more nice changelings because then the love and kindness exchanged between the nice changlings can be fed on by the rest
One reason I have somewhat high hopes for G5. We saw them taking on some difficult topics in the movie and actually handle them pretty well without dumbing things down all the time. The characters felt less one-dimensional. I was worried that Hitch would be another Spike. A doormat just there to be the butt of jokes and make everyone else look better. Then this moment happened. "I'm the last real friend you've got in this town. Do you really want to lose me too?" *Stares her down when she looks away. Which was based af* Me: Wow, umm... okay. I stand corrected on him being another Spike. He could have handled that better. Bringing her dad into it was out of line. But still, props to him for having an actual backbone.
Cinemare Sins sin: First sin: points out that ponies are identified only by hair, coat color "and not much else". Second sin: complains about ponies being identified by race. *ding*
Honestly the idea of changelings, no matter their disposition, losing control in the presence of love unless they've done the whole "sharing love" thing is actually an interesting thing they could've explored. Like, what if Thorax reacted that way to more and more amounts of love because he wasn't used to getting that much, and that reaction went away once he metamorphized or something?
Once of the comments mentions "Vulnerability" as something that appears evil makes sense to me. And I wonder if his reaction is also because of the fact he was *replaced* by a Non-Changeling Child. And he felt resentful, hurt, lonely, scared and vulnerable despite his Good Nature and appeared hostile but not these emotions as a result. And I think a similar thing happened to Chrysalis but 100 Times Worse with the Consequence/Punishment being like Luna after Nightmare Moon took over/her dark feelings took over/the Umbra Or Symbiote Nightmare Moon Pony took over. I think. I dunno tho.
Yes, the episode has many points to work with, but despite that I can't dislike it at all: Spike gets to show a lot of his best qualities and his friendship with Thorax is really wholesome. Doesn't hurt that Thorax himself is a treasure, but that's just me. ^^
I love the idea of thorax. it's almost like he was meant to be a comfort character for me but I hate the way they handled him. You could do so much with the concept of a changelling staying a changelling. Wasn't the whole point of it to accept him as he is? But no, I guess a marketable toy is better isn't it.
About the sin no.25:My headcanon is that Spike knows Twilight doesn't respect him very much, so that's why he doesn't trust her enough in order to tell her about Thorax
A different backstory would've been great for Thorax. He could've seen Chrysalis killing one subject after not being good enough for her, because he didn't finished a task.
As far as Spike episodes go, at least everyone was holding the idiot ball, and Spike followed his heart most of the time, which is one of his best attributes. Thorax is adorkable as heck and he becomes one of the most important characters in the show thanks to Spike too! Also the song really got me, and the pun in the title was probably the best in the show.
I was disappointed that there wasn't a sin for "getting out of hand." Then i was happy that there was a sin for "getting out of hand," like there always has been
This is definitely the best Spike episode. Since it's the only one where he isn't a blithering idiot for no reason. Granted, "best Spike episode" is like saying "best Logan Paul video" so it's not exactly aiming high.
I love this episode (especially due to Thorax, what an adorable character!) but I gotta admit that everyone held the idiot ball, especially the citizens. Then again, they were pretty oblivious to the snowstorm in the Season 6 premiere, so maybe it’s the norm for them :P
Okay, I will defend that ending! No, Spike singing a song didn't convince anypony to change their view on Thorax. It was Twilight who talked them into doing that. All the song did was let Twilight know what was really going on after Spike refused to tell her this whole time. Which just means that every sin after he lied to Twilight should count double for only existing because Spike did that in the first place.
I actually liked the "lose control" segment and this ep inspired me to write a character similar to Thorax (in that they are different from the rest and good) if only all this inspiration were in a better ep. Hot take though - I like how Thorax acts and looks in this ep than later. I dunno, his vulnerability as a thing that looks evil is quite good and again, something that inspired me to write stories about looking beneath the skin (metaphorically of course)
I love when they introduce dangerous but friendly charcters that can easily lose control. It's the perfect exuse for ANGST- but you have to do it right. This wasn't quite it TwT
I feel like the concept of the Changelings would be much more interesting if they could only turn into living creatures (not including plants and bacteria and stuff of that sort). They feel way too overpowered with the ability to turn into anything.
When I watched this episode I was actually really shocked why there wasn’t a bit after Spike’s song where everyone rejected Thorax anyway and didn’t care about what Spike said. Idk why but I just feel like that’s what should’ve happened, with Spike having to fight for Thorax even more
Holy crap, how am I only now realizing how bad a leader Cadance truly was. Whatever happened to her and Shining when Equestria fell, I'd say they had it coming.
This would have been better if instead of Spike throwing Thorax in front of the bus, Thorax getting captured after his reveal and Spike being unable to help in the ensuing chaos. Spike could have then told Twilight and Starlight everything and *then, possibly* admitting he was afraid of loosing face. Have the two ponies offer their council and/or support. Then have Spike use his influence in the prison or trial thereafter to the same end.
I loved this episode despite its rushed ending and some of the pacing. I loved thorax in this episode because he was adorable both his design and pony form as well as his kind friendly and shyness. His voice was dorky but in a good way I feel tho that is subjective. Spike was very likable here to and you can understand his feelings and actions he takes. It's song is rather nice to tho a little corny. One of the best episodes of Season 6 easily along with saddle row review, hearts warming tale, gaulet of fire, stranger then fan fiction, top bolt and fault in our cutie marks.
the lesson in this episode is an important one but yeah I can see how the flaws can deflect from it, the retcon of the season 2 scene is pretty noticeable, I honestly think the better thing to do would've been to focus in on one of the changelings that got thrown rather than insert Thorax randomly, I saw one land in the Everfree forest, that could've been Thorax instead. But then again retconning is just "why didn't we think of that sooner!?" and then trying to put the new idea into canon in the easiest way possible so I can forgive it a bit. With Cadence's identifying twilight, I can see how chrysalis could've copied the ladybug dance, but then again, she and the changelings don't think about playing the part correctly of the pony they pretend to be, twilight and starlight easily saw through the facades and Chrysalis had no way of knowing that the dance would be important, she just brushed it off when twilight did it so she might've forgotten it but we don't know.
Princess Twilight was probably given an official security patdown because the only other distinguishing factor to authenticate an alicorn was an exposition dump.
Here’s my own sin:Nobody believes spike about thorax. I mean it’s bad for the guards because you’d think that he’d be taken more seriously considering how famous he is there for saving the Crystal empire twice. He brought the crystal heart to cadance allowing them to defeat sombra (even if that involved him tripping and dropping the heart resulting in both of them nearly being eaten by sombras cloud monster only to be caught by cadance) and then again during the equestria games when he melted the giant jagged frozen ice cloud and saved everypony from being crushed! It’s especially bad with shining armor because he’s not just a friend but FAMILY! Spike was adopted by twilight after she hatched him for her entry exam. Thrus making spike his adoptive little brother!
This is still one of my all time favorite episodes. It always hits my heart deep when people are stereotyped or assumed the worst of because of something they cannot control. It’s a bit superficial as everyone knows acceptance isn’t that quick, but man I love this episode. Probably my favorite Spike episode.
*Even tho It would make sense if they were- Apparently according to the Mlp game I know that Changelings are not just Ponylike in appearance or Dragonlike in appearance but they can walk on the Darkness- This indicates So is Derpy- She also is found as far off in the darkness as possible with only a Cardboard box disguising her head + Apple Buck Game Episode incidates there's another one in the games- He orginally had yellow magic; then had green- either this was an imposter all along or it's an imposter inspired by an actual pony of his appearance (I'm assuming that this was a Male Unicorn but I don't know 4 sure)*
When I saw this for the first time I was thinking Twilight was going to be brought in to help. Then the horrible naming of Thorax happened and I was kinda hoping Twi would see through it and call Spike out but NOPE. Yaaa this episode was riddled with lots of issues. I also understand that a lot didn't like the later transformation of Thorax. It would have been cool to see a few Changelings remain as there older selfs but with sparkling wings. This episode besides all the issues it has like all the other episodes was probably one of Spikes best episodes and I always have a soft spot for the Changelings. Since they influenced half of my OCs looks. The other half being Nightmare. So thanks to this episode and a few others my Nightlings were developed a bit more.
A question about the first sin... yes they're recognized by their hair but is the other one really their coat? Or is it their skin? Do they just have coloured skin or do they have fur?
2 ปีที่แล้ว +13
They have fur. In the first episode Twilight talks about Rarity dyeing her coat a different color. Later Snips and Snails are shown with some of the fur on their butts missing and they have pink skin underneath.
3:27 based on the way everyone was hostile when thorax accidentally revealed himself and silently angry when spike revealed thorax to the others, probably
There should be a sin for the guards laughing at spike when he to,d them the changling is good. Because they’re acting like “crystal hoove” can’t be good even tho one of the guards aka shining armour is related to Twilight Sparkle the princess of FRIENDSHIP And she literally helps ponies become friends with each other.
We complain about spike being really stupid in spike episodes, but my personal theorie is the reason spike episode spike exists is because he is so powerful when he's not the focus if he had his same power level of logic and reason there would be no episode at all so they have to nerf him. in this case if he had just told them the truth like non spike episode spike would have then there would be no episode cuz we all know they would approve of thorax.
In my school vr thorax had permanently damaged my oc by accident where he was among a crowd trying to win a million bits and during it he was blamed for bringing a CITY THAT IS TWICE AS BIG AS THE CRYSTAL EMPIRE which ultimately got him safe but a rando who he disguised as and fyi the cause of it was by a psd kid who mind name is mal dropped a magna mine which was my oc 2 creation the first was pon heng fyi the buildings in the city had no attractible metal so add 9 more sins for that massive conternurity error
The Episode that Changed My Fanfic forever (No Pun Intended.) Replacing a Friend of Mine's OC with Thorax, that's How Much I liked Thorax. I didn't know what too do with one of My Friend's OC's anyway.
DANG, I was going too suggest a Sin before for this episode, explaining a Black Corner on The Top Right as The Royal Guards were strolling in The Castle Hall with Spike and Thorax. I didn't suggest because I figured someone else already pointed it out, apparently not. And Now I regret Not contributing to The Suggest a Sin site, when I had a Chance.
Why are they scared of the changeling bc of a baby?,flurry almost killed a sick kid,so how is the changing more dangerous then flurry herself? Edit : I also like spike in this episode
![SAFEPLANET - ดาวเคราะห์ [ THE PLANET ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4X1XL3I_k3c/mqdefault.jpg)
Writers did spike so dirty. It's a shame because he's such a fun character in episodes that don't focus on him. This episode was rather good though
One thing the IDW comics occasionally got right was making Spike stand out without making everyone else a blithering idiot for no reason.
No they didn't you idiot fuck 🎉🎉😅
If there is anyone who has rewritten this episode to solve all its script problems, I would love to read it. Get the same end result (add Thorax to the cast and as Spike's friend), but without all of the character stupidity.
DWK did a pretty good job with it
@@TrashyPhancakes Wanted to say this, too.
I did a rewrite of this episode a few years back. Don't know if it fixes *ALL* the problems, but if you're curious you can read it for yourself and see what you think.
Why is this comment 3 days old but the video is 1 hour old..?
@@TrashyPhancakes who is dwk?
"Now that we ended racism, here, take my firstborn" definitely good parenting choices cadence
This is one of those episodes that has such huge and annoying flaws in it that drive me crazy. But despite that and how rushed a lot of it felt..It is definitely one of my most rewatched episodes. I will forever love Thorax's original form. he was so much extra cuter before being sacrificed to the Hasbro toyline gods.
I really wish the changelings didn't get new forms, or if they had to at least make them better designed than what we got
Say E to pay respect
@@AlicornHana E
@@AlicornHana E
@@JellyFishGell it would’ve been nice if they got more defining features while still keeping the of design. Like, minor color palette changes or definitive hole markings.
0:35 I am getting the feeling that Littleshy is actually literally just pulling "Starlight Glimmer" through tons of auto-subtitle, speech-to-text and google translate.
The hearted comment pretty much confirms it lmao
Personally, I think this is the best Spike episode. He isn't irritatingly oblivious and isn't trying to do something for gain. He actually wants to help Thorax fit in, and the two form a pretty good friendship. The song Spike sings is great, too. This is my favorite Spike episode.
Didn't work for me, at all. Personally there's no doubt about the best Spike episode and that's Gauntlet of Fire by miles. Only other one in contention is the arguably underrated Just for Sidekicks which at least is decently amusing.
Same bro, I really liked this episode
I love the episode too! Thorax and Spike together was the core on what it amazing!
Same!!
“The best Spike episode.” I think I just stubbed my toe on that low bar.
For a moment I thought you were going to forget to sin when Twilight said "this is getting out of hand". I should've known better. You had me scared for a second.
Me too! Really! The exact same way!
"The Times They Are A Changeling" is one of my favorite Spike episodes! both because we meet Thorax the first ever good Changeling and because Spike made a new friend, and of course to this day "A Changeling Can Change" is one of my all time favorite mlp songs!
However Spike was lucky he was singing that song in a cartoon because you know in real life no one would change their perspective about something because someone sang a song about it even if the song was right about everything.
Anyway overall i enjoy this episode, even though it has it's ups and downs like all episodes do.
yeah that was a great episode.
About the song section - it reminds me of Detroit, lol, hah
Markus and others androids sings a song* humans: oh my gosh, it was so heartbreaking, we should stop shooting them, they are actually alive!
😂
Yeah gonna have to agree with 3:26
Spike should have suggested to Twilight about the possibility of a friendly changeling and Twilight should have dismissed Spike's idea only to be introduced to "Crystal Hoof".
That way it wouldn't be a sudden change of heart but rather a cautious introduction between the races.
One of the few episodes where Spike showed some backbone.
This episode simultaneously made him a coward too afraid to tell the truth and a brave and glorious friend 🤔
@@LittleshyFiM One reason I have somewhat high hopes for G5. We saw them taking on some difficult topics in the movie and actually handle them pretty well without dumbing things down all the time. The characters felt less one-dimensional.
I was worried that Hitch would be another Spike, then this moment happened.
"I'm the last real friend you've got in this town. Do you really want to lose me too?" *Stares her down when she looks away. Based af*
Me: Wow, umm... okay. I stand corrected on him being another Spike. He could have handled that better. Bringing her dad into it was out of line. But still, props to him for having an actual backbone.
Spike is the smartest character in the show... except when he's the main character.
Sadly true. Whenever he's helping others, he's logical with a bit of comedic, but when it's his own problems, he gets beaten more times than RD.
Spike being the "smartest character in the show," such as teaching the lesson of giving others a chance and the importance of extending friendship, you have to make him the only naive fool and everyone else as the unreasonable fools.
So, the crux of the problem with Spike - and episodes featuring him - is that everyone else must get dragged down if you want him to shine at all.
I'm pretty much in agreement with the rest of the comments section: your points are all correct, and yet even with ALL THESE SINS, it's *still* somehow the best Spike episode out there. (...Mostly because Thorax is just a sweetheart and best boy, though.)
I agree. Despite all those sins, it is Spike's best episode. And yes, Thorax is a sweetheart.
gauntlet of fire is the best spike episode tho
Episode is literally carried by thorax lmao
Fr
This could have been so much more. Spike is living evidence of his own argument; if a _dragon_ can fit into equine society and even be revered in a city made of his favorite food, then surely a changeling can amend his ways.
Of course, it doesn't help that "repentant changeling hiding among ponies" had been done dozens if not hundreds of times over by fanfic authors before this episode aired. I suppose they can only fit in so much in 22 minutes.
1:45 Flurry Heart may not have gotten much bigger, but you know what did get much bigger? That spacing between "much" and "bigger."
To be honest, despite the many amount sins we have for this episode, it's still one of my Top favorites of the series because Spike is at his best here and Thorax is the most adorable character that I want to give him a thousand hugs because of society being mean (Or Racist) to him!😊
Also, that end joke from 'The Lion King' was hilarious!😁
I was waiting for at least one crystal pony to point out that Crystal Hoof is a complete stranger to the entire empire, despite the empire being the only place crystal ponies are from.
Or they thought he was an Earth Pony 4 some reason
I love how Spike was willing to see there was more to a changeling than being the monster everyone assumed them to be. I just wish he and other characters did that during the series finale.
But they did. Starlight offered Chrysalis a second chance, heck the whole Discord thing was him trying to rehabilitate the trio. But the point of those episodes is that not everyone will want to change.
@@clairevoyance3476: but they did want to change. Frenemies nearly directly said they wanted to be good. And Discord was not trying to help them at all. He was only trying to boost Twilight’s confidence to be ruler. It was even him who decided to torture the trio at the end instead of try to help them. What Starlight did was great for season 6 and Chrysalis directly declined, but she was not in a position to say yes with Starlight announcing Thorax as the new leader just a minute before. And Chrysalis does not speak for the other two when she was rejecting friendship. She was the only one with a hostile expression when they were stoned while the other two were scared. The fact of the matter is that no one cared at all to help them in the end.
@@shadowspector3611 Let me remind you that Sombra got completely obliterated. Being turned into a statue pretty much is those 3 getting a chance to be reformed. After all, it worked out pretty good when it comes to reforming Discord, despite all the problems he caused throughout the show. There is no reason those 3 can't be turned back to normal and reformed. But there is also no chance of them being reformed if they are merely put in prison.
They have to be given the option between being turned back into a statue again and giving up on the whole taking over Equestria/getting revenge thing. A low bar to clear for getting their freedom back and an inescapable punishment if they refuse to cooperate. Anything else won't even have a chance of working after what happened in the finale.
@@rendomstranger8698: Discord literally said that the trio would be there forever and he also confirmed when he was freed that being turned to stone doesn’t stop you from hearing everything. It was basically more merciful for Sombra to get obliterated than for the trio to be trapped forever in one place while still fully conscious.
Also, being turned to stone does absolutely nothing for how they can be redeemed. If you notice, every time there is a punishment for a villain, it never helps them. The only time the villain actually changes is when the heroes actually lend out a hand to help them. They would’ve been better off in Tartarus actually contemplating what they’ve done since we see in the premiere that it hadn’t taken a toll on Cozy and Tirek’s mind yet. Not to mention with them in Tartarus, Equestria was literally experiencing its longest period of peace, so there is no reason why Tartarus wouldn’t have been the better option.
Giving them the choice between giving friendship a chance and being contained is a good thing because then they would actually be given a chance, but the princesses and Discord didn’t want to help them at all. They were actively smiling as they were subjecting them to torture, and like I said before, Discord confirmed it would be permanent. They could’ve gotten the same outcome though if they just put the trio in Tartarus to contain them. It was confirmed to hold them just fine and would’ve made Equestria perfectly safe as Celestia declared in the premiere.
Also, giving up on their efforts to take over Equestria may be a “low bar,” but keep in mind that Starlight destroyed Equestria several times and even ended all life on Equestria the final time. And even after she directly saw what her actions would do, she still tried to make it happen. All that needed to happen though was for Twilight to lend out a hoof to help her, something that would’ve actually worked with the Legion of Doom since we saw in Frenemies that they actually wanted to change.
Instead of any of the morally right things though, we got three helpless villains, one of which was a child, tortured endlessly by the “heroes” of Equestria, each with sadistic smiles on their faces as they did it. Everything about what happened in that moment is just so wrong.
@@shadowspector3611 Since when does Discord decide whether or not a villain gets a chanced to be reformed? Answer, he doesn't. Besides, he has no problems with lying. And as you said, those 3 can hear him while being turned to stone.
As for Tartarus, fat lot of good that did. Tikek managed to escape after spending a millennium in Tartarus and didn't reform. And working together with Cozyglow made it clear that he had no intention to learn friendship by the end of the finale.
I don't think anything needs to be said about Crysalis. She straight up rejected Starlights offer for friendship and immediately swore revenge after being blasted by the magic of friendship. Not the slightest hint of regret or the slightest indication that things had changed from when she rejected Starlights offer for friendship.
As for Cozyglow, she was taught the magic of friendship. She even showed that she was capable of a real act of selflessness to clear the names of the CMC. Yet, look at what a piece of work she turned out to be. She might be a child, but she is the worst out of all 3. If anyone can find a way to get out of Tartarus while Cerberus is present, it's her.
Again, being truly unable to escape is the only way in which there is a chance of reforming those 3. All 3 have already had the chance of accept friendship. All 3 of them rejected it. Fully rejected it, unlike Starlight who simply didn't understand it. While Starlight also rejected friendship at the start of season 5, she did it out of fear. Those 3 on the other hand know exactly how powerful friendship is. Tirek knew it when he ignored Scorpan and was reminded when all the magic in Equestria wasn't enough to beat it. Chrisalis saw it several times. And Cozyglow was straight up taught about it. There was no way they would have accepted friendship during the finale and no way to safely contain them without turning them to stone.
That Lion King reference at the end.... gold XD
Bonus sin: if you think about it logically then the rest of the hive would want more nice changelings because then the love and kindness exchanged between the nice changlings can be fed on by the rest
One reason I have somewhat high hopes for G5. We saw them taking on some difficult topics in the movie and actually handle them pretty well without dumbing things down all the time. The characters felt less one-dimensional.
I was worried that Hitch would be another Spike. A doormat just there to be the butt of jokes and make everyone else look better. Then this moment happened.
"I'm the last real friend you've got in this town. Do you really want to lose me too?" *Stares her down when she looks away. Which was based af*
Me: Wow, umm... okay. I stand corrected on him being another Spike. He could have handled that better. Bringing her dad into it was out of line. But still, props to him for having an actual backbone.
Cinemare Sins sin:
First sin: points out that ponies are identified only by hair, coat color "and not much else".
Second sin: complains about ponies being identified by race.
*ding*
3rd sin for not taking into account cutie marks as literal ID since each is different and unique
Honestly the idea of changelings, no matter their disposition, losing control in the presence of love unless they've done the whole "sharing love" thing is actually an interesting thing they could've explored.
Like, what if Thorax reacted that way to more and more amounts of love because he wasn't used to getting that much, and that reaction went away once he metamorphized or something?
Once of the comments mentions "Vulnerability" as something that appears evil makes sense to me. And I wonder if his reaction is also because of the fact he was *replaced* by a Non-Changeling Child. And he felt resentful, hurt, lonely, scared and vulnerable despite his Good Nature and appeared hostile but not these emotions as a result. And I think a similar thing happened to Chrysalis but 100 Times Worse with the Consequence/Punishment being like Luna after Nightmare Moon took over/her dark feelings took over/the Umbra Or Symbiote Nightmare Moon Pony took over. I think. I dunno tho.
And maybe it was such a strange feeling in part to be loved by something that accepts too much that also is born because you were no longer wanted.
Yes, the episode has many points to work with, but despite that I can't dislike it at all: Spike gets to show a lot of his best qualities and his friendship with Thorax is really wholesome. Doesn't hurt that Thorax himself is a treasure, but that's just me. ^^
Thorax is a treasure to me too. Also yes, their friendship was wholesome
I love the idea of thorax. it's almost like he was meant to be a comfort character for me but I hate the way they handled him. You could do so much with the concept of a changelling staying a changelling. Wasn't the whole point of it to accept him as he is? But no, I guess a marketable toy is better isn't it.
About the sin no.25:My headcanon is that Spike knows Twilight doesn't respect him very much, so that's why he doesn't trust her enough in order to tell her about Thorax
A different backstory would've been great for Thorax. He could've seen Chrysalis killing one subject after not being good enough for her, because he didn't finished a task.
As far as Spike episodes go, at least everyone was holding the idiot ball, and Spike followed his heart most of the time, which is one of his best attributes. Thorax is adorkable as heck and he becomes one of the most important characters in the show thanks to Spike too! Also the song really got me, and the pun in the title was probably the best in the show.
This episode was great for spike as a character and it was a nice debut for Thorax too.
This will always be 1 of the top 5 Spike episodes for me.
I was disappointed that there wasn't a sin for "getting out of hand." Then i was happy that there was a sin for "getting out of hand," like there always has been
"We have ended racism! Here, take my first born" has to be my favorite quote from this channel so far 😌
This is definitely the best Spike episode. Since it's the only one where he isn't a blithering idiot for no reason.
Granted, "best Spike episode" is like saying "best Logan Paul video" so it's not exactly aiming high.
Ah no. _Best_ Spike Episode is Gauntlet of Fire.
I love this episode (especially due to Thorax, what an adorable character!) but I gotta admit that everyone held the idiot ball, especially the citizens. Then again, they were pretty oblivious to the snowstorm in the Season 6 premiere, so maybe it’s the norm for them :P
Okay, I will defend that ending! No, Spike singing a song didn't convince anypony to change their view on Thorax. It was Twilight who talked them into doing that. All the song did was let Twilight know what was really going on after Spike refused to tell her this whole time.
Which just means that every sin after he lied to Twilight should count double for only existing because Spike did that in the first place.
Confession: I had the biggest crush on Thorax when I was a kid, both in his original changeling form and after his transformation into the leader
The closed captions: “And this was the moment the episode became a spike.”
I actually liked the "lose control" segment and this ep inspired me to write a character similar to Thorax (in that they are different from the rest and good) if only all this inspiration were in a better ep.
Hot take though - I like how Thorax acts and looks in this ep than later. I dunno, his vulnerability as a thing that looks evil is quite good and again, something that inspired me to write stories about looking beneath the skin (metaphorically of course)
2:12 I swear this is going to cause some fan fic's to be written
I love when they introduce dangerous but friendly charcters that can easily lose control. It's the perfect exuse for ANGST- but you have to do it right. This wasn't quite it TwT
At 1:35 the way Sunburst is holding McFlurry should make her weight cause her to fall over.
Yep
“Now that we’ve ended racism, here! Take my firstborn!” I was hysterical for a hot minute-
Spike met the best friend he could ever have. Now he can pork rarity all the time
I feel like the concept of the Changelings would be much more interesting if they could only turn into living creatures (not including plants and bacteria and stuff of that sort). They feel way too overpowered with the ability to turn into anything.
The perfect birthday present
This is one of the few good Spike episodes, and possibly my favorite. (Also, A Changeling Can Change is an awesome song)
I still contend that “long live the brave and glorious” is one of the best end gags thus far.
3:11 Pea-Tear-Griffin. Peter Griffin
When I watched this episode I was actually really shocked why there wasn’t a bit after Spike’s song where everyone rejected Thorax anyway and didn’t care about what Spike said. Idk why but I just feel like that’s what should’ve happened, with Spike having to fight for Thorax even more
I really love this episode and it's one of my favorites because I like Thorax, his friendship with Spike and Spike's song.
Every second Flurry Heart doesn't have a soul consumed is another mile where she's closer to yours
6:14 Bro missed the chance to make a "hmm yes the floor is made out of floor" joke
That whiplash ending is (almost) always fixed to make sense in fanfics
Holy crap, how am I only now realizing how bad a leader Cadance truly was. Whatever happened to her and Shining when Equestria fell, I'd say they had it coming.
2:24 how can you just call such a cute guy a “monster”
This would have been better if instead of Spike throwing Thorax in front of the bus, Thorax getting captured after his reveal and Spike being unable to help in the ensuing chaos. Spike could have then told Twilight and Starlight everything and *then, possibly* admitting he was afraid of loosing face. Have the two ponies offer their council and/or support. Then have Spike use his influence in the prison or trial thereafter to the same end.
I loved this episode despite its rushed ending and some of the pacing. I loved thorax in this episode because he was adorable both his design and pony form as well as his kind friendly and shyness. His voice was dorky but in a good way I feel tho that is subjective. Spike was very likable here to and you can understand his feelings and actions he takes. It's song is rather nice to tho a little corny. One of the best episodes of Season 6 easily along with saddle row review, hearts warming tale, gaulet of fire, stranger then fan fiction, top bolt and fault in our cutie marks.
One of the best episodes in Season 6.
Could it have been a two parter
51 sin in one episode is an academy record
Glad this went over the usual amount of sins
2:03 spike and thorax regrets living after that
*FLURRY’S POWER GROWS BIGGER WITH EACH SOUL SHE CONSUMES* but her actual size isn’t much bigger at all
Ima be honest this is my favorite spike episode, but only because Thorax is adorable and must be protected at all costs
I WAS WAITING FOR THIS!!
5:27 well, *obviously* Thorax tuned into a commercial break! ...duh
the lesson in this episode is an important one but yeah I can see how the flaws can deflect from it, the retcon of the season 2 scene is pretty noticeable, I honestly think the better thing to do would've been to focus in on one of the changelings that got thrown rather than insert Thorax randomly, I saw one land in the Everfree forest, that could've been Thorax instead. But then again retconning is just "why didn't we think of that sooner!?" and then trying to put the new idea into canon in the easiest way possible so I can forgive it a bit.
With Cadence's identifying twilight, I can see how chrysalis could've copied the ladybug dance, but then again, she and the changelings don't think about playing the part correctly of the pony they pretend to be, twilight and starlight easily saw through the facades and Chrysalis had no way of knowing that the dance would be important, she just brushed it off when twilight did it so she might've forgotten it but we don't know.
Princess Twilight was probably given an official security patdown because the only other distinguishing factor to authenticate an alicorn was an exposition dump.
6:35 spike knows what thumbs up means
Nice thanks for uploading a new one ❤ very good quality videos always from you
Ahhhh An episode I have never seen. And i Love the great commentary! Keep it up
"Now that we ended racism, Here take my firstborn"
I can't😂😂😂
Twilight: "This search is getting out of hand."
Unless Equestria Girls is canon Twilight should not know what a hand is.
I will never accept equestria girls as canon
I really like what you did at the end.
Ah, the clear sign a new month has begun: a Cinemare Sins video. *Ding!*
Here’s my own sin:Nobody believes spike about thorax. I mean it’s bad for the guards because you’d think that he’d be taken more seriously considering how famous he is there for saving the Crystal empire twice. He brought the crystal heart to cadance allowing them to defeat sombra (even if that involved him tripping and dropping the heart resulting in both of them nearly being eaten by sombras cloud monster only to be caught by cadance) and then again during the equestria games when he melted the giant jagged frozen ice cloud and saved everypony from being crushed! It’s especially bad with shining armor because he’s not just a friend but FAMILY! Spike was adopted by twilight after she hatched him for her entry exam. Thrus making spike his adoptive little brother!
Does "The Times They Are A Changeling" imply that sometimes changelings are changelings but other times changelings are not changelings?
No. The title is a play on "The times, they are a changing."
This is still one of my all time favorite episodes. It always hits my heart deep when people are stereotyped or assumed the worst of because of something they cannot control. It’s a bit superficial as everyone knows acceptance isn’t that quick, but man I love this episode. Probably my favorite Spike episode.
0:10 Stoplight Bimmer's magic clips through her hair.
Reminding you of this video
Amazing job LittleShyFIM. I really enjoyed this. Keep up the good work. Have a wonderful day.
*Even tho It would make sense if they were- Apparently according to the Mlp game I know that Changelings are not just Ponylike in appearance or Dragonlike in appearance but they can walk on the Darkness- This indicates So is Derpy- She also is found as far off in the darkness as possible with only a Cardboard box disguising her head + Apple Buck Game Episode incidates there's another one in the games- He orginally had yellow magic; then had green- either this was an imposter all along or it's an imposter inspired by an actual pony of his appearance (I'm assuming that this was a Male Unicorn but I don't know 4 sure)*
When I saw this for the first time I was thinking Twilight was going to be brought in to help. Then the horrible naming of Thorax happened and I was kinda hoping Twi would see through it and call Spike out but NOPE. Yaaa this episode was riddled with lots of issues. I also understand that a lot didn't like the later transformation of Thorax. It would have been cool to see a few Changelings remain as there older selfs but with sparkling wings. This episode besides all the issues it has like all the other episodes was probably one of Spikes best episodes and I always have a soft spot for the Changelings. Since they influenced half of my OCs looks. The other half being Nightmare. So thanks to this episode and a few others my Nightlings were developed a bit more.
Correct me if I am wrong but I think Spike is Hilarious,Brave and Glorious
A question about the first sin... yes they're recognized by their hair but is the other one really their coat? Or is it their skin? Do they just have coloured skin or do they have fur?
They have fur. In the first episode Twilight talks about Rarity dyeing her coat a different color. Later Snips and Snails are shown with some of the fur on their butts missing and they have pink skin underneath.
@ Thank god, because the alternative would be horrifying.
@@imveryangryitsnotbutter humans are so ugly. Fur missing
3:27 based on the way everyone was hostile when thorax accidentally revealed himself and silently angry when spike revealed thorax to the others, probably
Cool video bro!
Awsome video like always! Even if the episode has really silly flaws
Why doesn’t Spike immediately go to Twilight instead of nameless guards?
These videos always makes me happy
Missed opportunity to use Kevin from Slice of Life IMHO, why retcon Thorax into it when another contender was right THERE!
Who said that "Kevin" isn't Thorax?
I think they're different colors?
Back when Changings looked cool
I always thought they were cool looking pokemon
There should be a sin for the guards laughing at spike when he to,d them the changling is good. Because they’re acting like “crystal hoove” can’t be good even tho one of the guards aka shining armour is related to Twilight Sparkle the princess of FRIENDSHIP And she literally helps ponies become friends with each other.
Basically everyone else too @ 6:25 with Twilight with a "Unhappy, Listening, Empathic/Sympathetic face" .
6:44 *Interrupts* "...OFF LOVE!-"
LittleShyFim: 😑
We complain about spike being really stupid in spike episodes, but my personal theorie is the reason spike episode spike exists is because he is so powerful when he's not the focus if he had his same power level of logic and reason there would be no episode at all so they have to nerf him. in this case if he had just told them the truth like non spike episode spike would have then there would be no episode cuz we all know they would approve of thorax.
In my school vr thorax had permanently damaged my oc by accident where he was among a crowd trying to win a million bits and during it he was blamed for bringing a CITY THAT IS TWICE AS BIG AS THE CRYSTAL EMPIRE which ultimately got him safe but a rando who he disguised as and fyi the cause of it was by a psd kid who mind name is mal dropped a magna mine which was my oc 2 creation the first was pon heng fyi the buildings in the city had no attractible metal so add 9 more sins for that massive conternurity error
Bruh I JUST realized why this is called cinemare sins… it only took a few years :)
5:01 I think that's different because since they gave him love, he wouldn't try to take it
The Episode that Changed My Fanfic forever (No Pun Intended.) Replacing a Friend of Mine's OC with Thorax, that's How Much I liked Thorax. I didn't know what too do with one of My Friend's OC's anyway.
I was thinking about this episode this morning and here you are
New video just for you! 😄
DANG, I was going too suggest a Sin before for this episode, explaining a Black Corner on The Top Right as The Royal Guards were strolling in The Castle Hall with Spike and Thorax. I didn't suggest because I figured someone else already pointed it out, apparently not.
And Now I regret Not contributing to The Suggest a Sin site, when I had a Chance.
Why are they scared of the changeling bc of a baby?,flurry almost killed a sick kid,so how is the changing more dangerous then flurry herself? Edit : I also like spike in this episode
1:14 this is a well functioning high trust society, so I have no gripes with this whatsoever.
How I would handle the sin for 6:14 if I was in his position - Um yeah, we've seen him change, a lot. Heck, change is literally in his name