I could listen to these guys read the phone book. It would be interesting. I’m so enthralled in Civil War history. Listening to these men speak to the actions of the armies that day, and viewing the sketches at the same time, almost takes you there. I’ve been there twice and the field is a special place for sure. The feeling of being in that hallowed place is special. Only field that holds more sympathy or honor or reverence is of course Gettysburg. I went to Wilson’s Creek battlefield recently… a completely different feeling, but still one of awe and reverence. Anything Civil War is beyond interesting to me. But walking those fields on foot journeying up and down the hills through the woods, across the creeks, along the once mighty breastworks now silent. I will never tire of it or learning of it, or seeing it while visiting. I can never learn enough or see enough or hear enough about it that would satisfy me. I have an insatiable appetite for it. It amazes and astounds me. Rip brave men. North and south. I won’t forget you. My son will know also. God Willing there’s still a country left for him to venture in freely? God bless all who were, and still are to this day affected by this great clash of men and arms. Deo Vindice
Literate, humane, courtly and superbly well-informed and retold. Thank you from the UK. And my thanks to those who truly celebrate and seek to preserve those battlefields great and small - sacred in memory.
The great Army of the Potomac should have done just that. But, McClellan would risk nothing that might result in a loss, while the underdog Lee was risking it all on an outside chance he might win. When one is expected to lose anyway, there is no disgrace when it happens. But when one is expected to win, he becomes too cautious to take decisive action. Lee and McClellan were different men, but circumstances played a huge role in the outcome.
I think McClellan could have done that after The Seven Days Battles, but he believed Pinkerton's false claims about Lee outnumbering them. These claims were made more believable by Lee's aggressiveness. Lee completely outwitted McClellan, even though all the Seven Days Battles, apart from Gaines Mill, were either stalemates or Confederate defeats! Lee lost more men than McClellan, who still had far more men and resources left than Lee. America would have to wait too more years for a general like Grant to realize Lee could only be defeated by using all of the North's superior numbers and resources no matter what the cost.
I had a handful of Confederate ancestors who fought at Sharpsburg including a great great great grandfather in the 25th North Carolina Infantry who was mortally wounded near the West Woods A sad and a terrible day for both sides
With the capture of Harper's ferry I believe that the Maryland campaign in 1862 was a success add the captured at Harper's ferry with everything else that happened to the army of the Potomac and the army of northern virginia faired much better
Capturing harpers ferry had no effect on the 1862 election, which was the only thing that mattered. The only chance the south had to win the war was to put democrats in control of the House.
Southerners love to talk about battles. Northerners like to talk about Presidents and motives and results. BTW. Lee wanted to attack Philadelphia. They were also in Gettysburg to commandeer ( Rob ) supplies.
What is your source for an attack Philadelphia? I have almost 50 books on the Civil War (many on only 1 battle though) and am curious because I have never heard of this.
@@davidharman7245 Lee was wanting to go up into Pennsylvania on his first crossing of the Potomac. He was starting to be more like Jackson as far as keeping his plans to himself. Now his order191 copy get lost,and those Indiana boys having luck running across them was a fluke. I don't"What if" like Jackson not getting wounded at Chancellorsville. Gettysburg may not have happened if that's the case. Just one small event can change the future bigtime.
@@carywest9256 That wouldn’t have ended well for Lee, and I’m surprised he would even entertain the thought. Their retreat would have also been cut off that far from home and they would have been surrounded and annihilated
If you lose all you have to talk about are the battles you won. The South had no real plan to win that war, or what to do with themselves if they did. Their entire power structure and culture was unsustainable
Why is that? He never said they weren't defending slavery by extension (they were), he merely said that these particular men here and there would not take part in leaving their own lands to fight on someone else's. That's not an uncommon sentiment, though acting on that sentiment, perhaps is. The reasons for an individual to fight are their own, what is unfortunate for them, is that by extension they are also fighting for the aims of the government they serve, which in this case was the not only the maintaining of slavery, but it's actual expansion into new territories. Whatever the individual's reasons, the ultimate cause was wrong, and the irony is that by secession, the southern leadership guaranteed that they would lose that which they chose to initiate war over, if they could not win. Incidentally, this program isn't too old (2003 for this episode, that's pretty young for Civil War programming), and the co-host (Davis) of this show has written books that debunk the Lost Cause narrative as far back as 1996, so it's more than probable they shared quite a bit of scholarly leaning.
True, Mr. Mosley, but Pres. Lincoln actually thought Gen. McClellan would become the 17th U.S. President if no strategic Union victories in any major southern cities were forthcoming, sir. Gen. Sherman's capture of Atlanta was a deal sealer for Abe's re-election in 1864
With the description of Cornfederate Robert Toombs, you'd a thunk he may be kinfolk to to that ol' goggle-eyed snapping turtle Union Gen. George Meade. Bet they would have went round and round if they ever met!
The Emancipation Proclamation freed zero slaves. Read it! It did not free slaves in D.C. or any slave state (four of them) that had not seceded. It didn't even free slaves in areas of the Federally-occupied Confederacy. It only freed slaves in areas still in "rebellion." In effect, Lincoln freed only slaves that he could not free, while leaving in bondage those he might have. Not one slave was ever freed by the Proclamation. Slavery ended after the War by Constitutional amendment.
Lincoln said if he could restore the union by freeing one or all the slaves he would do it. If he could save the union by not freeing any slaves he would do it
It was more a diplomatic move than a domestic one. By merely declaring the North's INTENT to abolish slavery, Lincoln made it clear to Britain and France that supporting the Confederacy meant supporting the continuation of slavery, which they themselves had already abolished. Therefore, it would have been politically disastrous at home for them to intervene on behalf of the South. While Lincoln did not free any slaves with that document alone, it fundamentally changed the course of the war by making it both for Union and for black liberty, therefore making it impossible for outside forces to, in good faith, side with the South. Confederate victory became FAR less likely with the Emancipation Proclamation.
Same I don’t like Burnside I’m convinced the only reason some people try to say he was a good general is because they’re so biased in their hatred for McClellan that they’ll like anyone else
It amazes me that a military academy such as West Point, produced Union officers who couldn't even win battles against bunch of farmhands. Had Lee been fighting against Generals such as Napoleon or Wellington, he would have had his arsed kicked! Lee had nothing to beat. Well put together programme. 👍
I'm sure that's a very debatable and opinionated P.O.V. you have, sir. Many historians may have a tendency to disagree with you. There were Union & Confederate generals who were graduated from West Point that were both intelligent and no so capable of commanding men. Strategy played a most important battle plan part and no so much a numbers game factor in many of the campaigns outcomes
Lee did not learn the lesson from George Washington: Keep your army intact to fight another day even if it means giving up a certain place, despite Lee`s successes he allowed his army to become bottled up to protect Richmond, where as Washington allowed the British to take towns and cities, he kept his army intact and not with the dogma that Lee had to protect a City, the British took New York City and Philidelphia, the seat of Congress, but the American army abandoned these areas to fight another day.
@@shanebell2514 Numerical superiority is always favorable in any battle, Mr. Bell. That's true. You're definitely right about Gen. George Washington's strategy on giving up real estate to keep his army intact.....very sound stragy. How to maneuver an army and what kind of topographical real estate it fights on is even more crucial in battle strategy at times, sir. That was something Lee & his generals in overall majority usually agreed upon. Of course, after quite a number of victories in Virginia, there was the Gettysburg defeat😑
Jesus, I haven't seen the other episodes, but I can't remember any documentary as factual as this. The ones I've seen before went like this.... Lee was an idiot, but saved only because McClellan was a bigger idiot. The Texas Brigade was largely barefoot and hadn't slept or eaten in nearly three days. They had been promised enough time to cook their simple hoe cakes, but before the cornbread was done they were called to save the left flank. They did, and died shoeless on empty stomachs near a creek and town none of them ever heard of.
You want to get a Texan riled, disturb him when he's trying to eat. You'd rather take a switch to a full grown grizzly bear! I'm here ta tell ya, "cause I are a Texican and mess up my feeding. Why I be on ya like a chicken on a June bug!
I don't know where you find your documentaries, but the vast majority of them, especially those 20 years old or more are practically GLOWING over Lee's apparent genius. Lee certainly made mistakes, quite a few of them unforced, and he actually deserves the moniker of "butcher" more than Grant does, but I've never seen a documentary that called him an "idiot". Most of them do shit-talk McClellan, I agree with that, and I think McClellan was actually quite intelligent as well... but he wasn't a fighter. He built the Army of the Potomac into a force that would wear down and destroy Lee, but he wasn't a man capable of using the instrument he created.
And just remember… those men broke through at the bridge for alcohol. Not for slaves, or for the union. The broke lines for the promise of drunkenness again. So F the union. Deo Vindice. Our cause was just.
The south may have lost but they were men of honor. They fought for an idea against an aggressive government. I would have fought for the South also. I hate slavery. It would have died of natural causes. People say the South had no right to leave. If someone feels oppressed why would they ever stay in that situation? The North did not want the south to leave because up until that point it was the richest part of the country. Cotton was king.
They were saying "slavery will die of natural causes" for 100 years, and still it persisted. At the time of the Civil War the institution of slavery had never been more economically viable. Slavery wasn't going anywhere. The canard of "slavery was dying" still persists for some reason. Not sure why. The South was not the richest part of the country; it was easily the poorest. The Industrial Revolution took root in the North and was leading to huge accretions of wealth. The South had essentially no modern industry, was a backwards, poorly educated, agriculturally dominated backwards region. Where did you get the idea that the South was the richest part of the country ?
@@TheMrSuge you are incorrect sir. Mississippi was the richest state in the Union. You need to do your research. More southern kids went to college by far than the north. As far as education goes you might want to check that also. Don't believe what you learn in school. History is written by the victors. The North was wrong and knew they were. That is why they let the southern soldiers be paroled without any other condition except that they lay down their weapons and sign a piece of paper.
@@volslover1504 Let me guess ... you're only counting WHITE southerners in your "statistics". Not to mention the fact that southern wealth was tied up in slave ownership. You give yourself away when you write "don't believe what you learn in school"
@@volslover1504 After the Civil War the raw cotton export was diversificated in India, Egypt, Turkye, Brasil and other countries. It may be the the plantation owners and the cotton traders were rich, but the free people were poor. The South lost the cotton market after the Civil War.
I disagree! Lee lead the, "Army of Northern Virginia, out of Virginia for the reason the people were in search of Food... With the devastation that Union had done to the Virginia Farmers. Even the Union Army and the Northern people were in search for Food. After two years of the Union Soldiers being off playing Soldier, for Abraham Lincolns' War. No crops had been grown since 1861. And Now going into 1863.
I could listen to these guys read the phone book. It would be interesting. I’m so enthralled in Civil War history. Listening to these men speak to the actions of the armies that day, and viewing the sketches at the same time, almost takes you there. I’ve been there twice and the field is a special place for sure. The feeling of being in that hallowed place is special. Only field that holds more sympathy or honor or reverence is of course Gettysburg. I went to Wilson’s Creek battlefield recently… a completely different feeling, but still one of awe and reverence. Anything Civil War is beyond interesting to me. But walking those fields on foot journeying up and down the hills through the woods, across the creeks, along the once mighty breastworks now silent. I will never tire of it or learning of it, or seeing it while visiting. I can never learn enough or see enough or hear enough about it that would satisfy me. I have an insatiable appetite for it. It amazes and astounds me. Rip brave men. North and south. I won’t forget you. My son will know also. God Willing there’s still a country left for him to venture in freely? God bless all who were, and still are to this day affected by this great clash of men and arms.
Deo Vindice
The introductory musical number is beautiful: a truly sublime melody.
Literate, humane, courtly and superbly well-informed and retold. Thank you from the UK. And my thanks to those who truly celebrate and seek to preserve those battlefields great and small - sacred in memory.
Well said
Just say "Fuck yeah !!"
Well said 🙌🏻🙌🏻
This is a Gr8 historical documentary thanx
The best series about the civil war I have seen. James Robertson is a great, could listen to him for hours and hours
Lee getting thrown from his horse remind me of Napoleons getting thrown from his horse, after it got spooked by a rabbit
Seems as though the war could have almost been decided at Antietam if Little Mac would have behaved more like Grant.
The great Army of the Potomac should have done just that. But, McClellan would risk nothing that might result in a loss, while the underdog Lee was risking it all on an outside chance he might win. When one is expected to lose anyway, there is no disgrace when it happens. But when one is expected to win, he becomes too cautious to take decisive action. Lee and McClellan were different men, but circumstances played a huge role in the outcome.
maybe there would have been no Union soldiers left
I think McClellan could have done that after The Seven Days Battles, but he believed Pinkerton's false claims about Lee outnumbering them. These claims were made more believable by Lee's aggressiveness. Lee completely outwitted McClellan, even though all the Seven Days Battles, apart from Gaines Mill, were either stalemates or Confederate defeats! Lee lost more men than McClellan, who still had far more men and resources left than Lee. America would have to wait too more years for a general like Grant to realize Lee could only be defeated by using all of the North's superior numbers and resources no matter what the cost.
@@brentinnes5151 There wouldn't have been.
I had a handful of Confederate ancestors who fought at Sharpsburg including a great great great grandfather in the 25th North Carolina Infantry who was mortally wounded near the West Woods A sad and a terrible day for both sides
With the capture of Harper's ferry I believe that the Maryland campaign in 1862 was a success add the captured at Harper's ferry with everything else that happened to the army of the Potomac and the army of northern virginia faired much better
Lee was repulsed. ( fail ) Mccullen was a Doughface. He let Lee excape! 😡🇺🇸
Lincoln was being sabotaged by his own General ( Treason )
Capturing harpers ferry had no effect on the 1862 election, which was the only thing that mattered. The only chance the south had to win the war was to put democrats in control of the House.
Well done...perfect end of the summation
Southerners love to talk about battles.
Northerners like to talk about Presidents and motives and results.
BTW. Lee wanted to attack Philadelphia. They were also in Gettysburg to commandeer ( Rob ) supplies.
What is your source for an attack Philadelphia? I have almost 50 books on the Civil War (many on only 1 battle though) and am curious because I have never heard of this.
@@davidharman7245 Lee was wanting to go up into Pennsylvania on his first crossing of the Potomac. He was starting to be more like Jackson as far as keeping his plans to himself.
Now his order191 copy get lost,and those Indiana boys having luck running across them was a fluke.
I don't"What if" like Jackson not getting wounded at Chancellorsville. Gettysburg may not have happened if that's the case. Just one small event can change the future bigtime.
@@carywest9256 That wouldn’t have ended well for Lee, and I’m surprised he would even entertain the thought. Their retreat would have also been cut off that far from home and they would have been surrounded and annihilated
If you lose all you have to talk about are the battles you won. The South had no real plan to win that war, or what to do with themselves if they did. Their entire power structure and culture was unsustainable
6:20 Why do I get the feeling this would not fly today?
Why is that? He never said they weren't defending slavery by extension (they were), he merely said that these particular men here and there would not take part in leaving their own lands to fight on someone else's. That's not an uncommon sentiment, though acting on that sentiment, perhaps is.
The reasons for an individual to fight are their own, what is unfortunate for them, is that by extension they are also fighting for the aims of the government they serve, which in this case was the not only the maintaining of slavery, but it's actual expansion into new territories.
Whatever the individual's reasons, the ultimate cause was wrong, and the irony is that by secession, the southern leadership guaranteed that they would lose that which they chose to initiate war over, if they could not win.
Incidentally, this program isn't too old (2003 for this episode, that's pretty young for Civil War programming), and the co-host (Davis) of this show has written books that debunk the Lost Cause narrative as far back as 1996, so it's more than probable they shared quite a bit of scholarly leaning.
Great series
I think I would rather hit the beach in Normandy than march into Antietam
I can never understand why so many people in the USA do not understand that everyone lost in the civil war . Black people too.
How so ?
Mc Clellan was possibly the worst commander in the history of America. All the blood shed after Antetam battles is on his hands
He was a criminal. Could have ended the war after The Seven Days Battles.
You are right.
Little Mac seemed preoccupied with a hopeful political career post civil war. Lincoln was smart , he knew he could never win with this general.
True, Mr. Mosley, but Pres. Lincoln actually thought Gen. McClellan would become the 17th U.S. President if no strategic Union victories in any major southern cities were forthcoming, sir. Gen. Sherman's capture of Atlanta was a deal sealer for Abe's re-election in 1864
Yeah, Lincoln was kinda smart haha
With the description of Cornfederate Robert Toombs, you'd a thunk he may be kinfolk to to that ol' goggle-eyed snapping turtle Union Gen. George Meade. Bet they would have went round and round if they ever met!
The Emancipation Proclamation freed zero slaves. Read it! It did not free slaves in D.C. or any slave state (four of them) that had not seceded. It didn't even free slaves in areas of the Federally-occupied Confederacy. It only freed slaves in areas still in "rebellion." In effect, Lincoln freed only slaves that he could not free, while leaving in bondage those he might have. Not one slave was ever freed by the Proclamation. Slavery ended after the War by Constitutional amendment.
It was more of a punishment to the rebs, as if to say get back in the union or pay the price.
The futility of executive order continues to this day.
Lincoln knew he didn't free the majority of the slaves but it was a blow as intended to the South
Lincoln said if he could restore the union by freeing one or all the slaves he would do it. If he could save the union by not freeing any slaves he would do it
It was more a diplomatic move than a domestic one. By merely declaring the North's INTENT to abolish slavery, Lincoln made it clear to Britain and France that supporting the Confederacy meant supporting the continuation of slavery, which they themselves had already abolished. Therefore, it would have been politically disastrous at home for them to intervene on behalf of the South. While Lincoln did not free any slaves with that document alone, it fundamentally changed the course of the war by making it both for Union and for black liberty, therefore making it impossible for outside forces to, in good faith, side with the South. Confederate victory became FAR less likely with the Emancipation Proclamation.
Than you for the great series
You are so very welcome.
I've walked across the Burnside Bridge. I have no respect for Burnside at all. He was a coward.
Same I don’t like Burnside I’m convinced the only reason some people try to say he was a good general is because they’re so biased in their hatred for McClellan that they’ll like anyone else
To heck with Burnside
It amazes me that a military academy such as West Point, produced
Union officers who couldn't even win battles against bunch of farmhands.
Had Lee been fighting against Generals such as Napoleon or Wellington, he would have had his arsed kicked!
Lee had nothing to beat.
Well put together programme. 👍
I'm sure that's a very debatable and opinionated P.O.V. you have, sir. Many historians may have a tendency to disagree with you. There were Union & Confederate generals who were graduated from West Point that were both intelligent and no so capable of commanding men. Strategy played a most important battle plan part and no so much a numbers game factor in many of the campaigns outcomes
Sorry....not
Lee did not learn the lesson from George Washington: Keep your army intact to fight another day even if it means giving up a certain place, despite Lee`s successes he allowed his army to become bottled up to protect Richmond, where as Washington allowed the British to take towns and cities, he kept his army intact and not with the dogma that Lee had to protect a City, the British took New York City and Philidelphia, the seat of Congress, but the American army abandoned these areas to fight another day.
@@shanebell2514 Numerical superiority is always favorable in any battle, Mr. Bell. That's true. You're definitely right about Gen. George Washington's strategy on giving up real estate to keep his army intact.....very sound stragy. How to maneuver an army and what kind of topographical real estate it fights on is even more crucial in battle strategy at times, sir. That was something Lee & his generals in overall majority usually agreed upon. Of course, after quite a number of victories in Virginia, there was the Gettysburg defeat😑
@@shanebell2514 Sorry....strategy
Isnt take the high ground battle rules 101?
Jesus, I haven't seen the other episodes, but I can't remember any documentary as factual as this. The ones I've seen before went like this.... Lee was an idiot, but saved only because McClellan was a bigger idiot. The Texas Brigade was largely barefoot and hadn't slept or eaten in nearly three days. They had been promised enough time to cook their simple hoe cakes, but before the cornbread was done they were called to save the left flank. They did, and died shoeless on empty stomachs near a creek and town none of them ever heard of.
You want to get a Texan riled, disturb him when he's trying to eat. You'd rather take a switch to a full grown grizzly bear! I'm here ta tell ya, "cause I are a Texican and mess up my feeding. Why I be on ya like a chicken on a June bug!
I don't know where you find your documentaries, but the vast majority of them, especially those 20 years old or more are practically GLOWING over Lee's apparent genius. Lee certainly made mistakes, quite a few of them unforced, and he actually deserves the moniker of "butcher" more than Grant does, but I've never seen a documentary that called him an "idiot". Most of them do shit-talk McClellan, I agree with that, and I think McClellan was actually quite intelligent as well... but he wasn't a fighter. He built the Army of the Potomac into a force that would wear down and destroy Lee, but he wasn't a man capable of using the instrument he created.
Sharpsburg please!
Never heard of Sharpsburg,Md?
I notice a common theme.. the south was better.. always winning.. yet in the end, they lost.
tactical draw, strategic union victory
And just remember… those men broke through at the bridge for alcohol. Not for slaves, or for the union. The broke lines for the promise of drunkenness again. So F the union. Deo Vindice. Our cause was just.
Thanks for the comment
If you spew "Lost Cause" BS these guys will thank you for your comment.
@@TheMrSuge still the truth. Regardless of the bs you believe also bud. So… yeah… kick rocks
The south may have lost but they were men of honor. They fought for an idea against an aggressive government. I would have fought for the South also. I hate slavery. It would have died of natural causes. People say the South had no right to leave. If someone feels oppressed why would they ever stay in that situation? The North did not want the south to leave because up until that point it was the richest part of the country. Cotton was king.
They were saying "slavery will die of natural causes" for 100 years, and still it persisted. At the time of the Civil War the institution of slavery had never been more economically viable. Slavery wasn't going anywhere. The canard of "slavery was dying" still persists for some reason. Not sure why.
The South was not the richest part of the country; it was easily the poorest. The Industrial Revolution took root in the North and was leading to huge accretions of wealth. The South had essentially no modern industry, was a backwards, poorly educated, agriculturally dominated backwards region. Where did you get the idea that the South was the richest part of the country ?
@@TheMrSuge you are incorrect sir. Mississippi was the richest state in the Union. You need to do your research. More southern kids went to college by far than the north. As far as education goes you might want to check that also. Don't believe what you learn in school. History is written by the victors. The North was wrong and knew they were. That is why they let the southern soldiers be paroled without any other condition except that they lay down their weapons and sign a piece of paper.
@@volslover1504
Let me guess ... you're only counting WHITE southerners in your "statistics".
Not to mention the fact that southern wealth was tied up in slave ownership.
You give yourself away when you write "don't believe what you learn in school"
@@volslover1504 After the Civil War the raw cotton export was diversificated in India, Egypt, Turkye, Brasil and other countries. It may be the the plantation owners and the cotton traders were rich, but the free people were poor. The South lost the cotton market after the Civil War.
@@avenaoat no argument there. Thanks yanks. Lol
too much lee worship
I disagree! Lee lead the, "Army of Northern Virginia, out of Virginia for the reason the people were in search of Food... With the devastation that Union had done to the Virginia Farmers. Even the Union Army and the Northern people were in search for Food. After two years of the Union Soldiers being off playing Soldier, for Abraham Lincolns' War. No crops had been grown since 1861. And Now going into 1863.
WRONG SIDE WON.
Upvote to down vote.