GPS LOCK Super Fast PLUS More Satellites with EASY FIX 🎓
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2022
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Thanks for doing another video on this, you really are spreading the information that we all need. You are a significant contributor in the diy drone space, and you are really helping humanity move forward in this arena. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for this info and such an easy fix. Great job Albert 🔥👍
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Wow awesome bit of info to have! Great job thanks Albert!!
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I shielded all of my cables with copper tape and heat shrink tubing. I also added a ground lead prior to the heat shrink. Everything works great!
Nice work!
@@dabfpv overall I've only added a few grams of weight. On my 5" and 7" quads there is no noticable difference at all. In fact, there's no noticable difference on my 4" quads either. I have 2 of them rigged this way.
Thanks, great full information, and I needed these since long time ago.. my GPS always took ages to lock .
🙏 Thank you
you're welcome
always such informative videos thanks for sharing Albert
Thanks for watching
I ordered such a cable due to the gps currently not being able to get a fix.. I'm excited to see if it improves this, thanks for the tip!
That makes a big difference, thanks for sharing this
No problem 👍
Awesome Video, just what i was looking for, i learn more than i need to with every new video i watch, thank youl
Great video Albert Thanks again
Big improvement, thanks! Went from waiting around for 5-10min to plug battery in, turn goggles on and take off.
Glad it helped!
Great information, thanks Albert I’ll give this a try.👏👏👏
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This is an awesome fix!!! I fly analog but I still have to wait a few min to get the 8 satellites. Im going to make on of those and see how much mine improves. Thanks Albert!!!!
Go for it!
Thank you Albert gonna try this in my flywood
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Thanks for another great tutorial
No problem 👍
Good one, Albert! I'm gonna do this on my 4" chimera. It has that little battery beeper/gps board in it too, which I really like. It's a Vifly GPS Mate BTW.
😁
i dont even have a gps on any of my quads but im grateful you did a video on showing a clever diy solution! thx much brother!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks Albert! Its been awhile, glad to see you well. Can't help but think "oc, why didn't we fink of dat years ago🤦♂️" haha
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So cool ! On the way to do the tune, thanks for tricks.
Have fun!
Just did this on my Explorer LR4 V2. GPS locked indoors in less than a minute. This video deserves more views!! 🙌
Thanks... It's puzzling why drones sold with GPS units don't all have this setup... So many don't get good locks.
Thanks for the info, Albert!
Any time!
thank you, this adds knowledge to all, especially me
Glad it was helpful!
Need to try it. Thanks for the trick
Any time!
The build is looking neat! These are pretty good tips, guess I will try them myself, since it takes about 5 minutes for my gps to get a lock!
Thanks for the awesome video, Albert! Keep up the great work!!! 💪
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Good to know! I have a few to install and have been putting it off but I only have 1 that has a Vista unit. All the GPS units I have, I have the foil for. Great info as usual and keep up the vids AK!
Glad to help
You are 100 percent right it does work! I use art & craft copper tape grounded it! Tested it, got 8 sats quickly!
Awesome! Not sure why all the haters who don't even try it come here to say this is not gonna work. I guess they just want people to not enjoy the hobby...
Great video! I currently do not have GPS on my quads, but I'm considering it. Thanks for the simple quick fix. I'm sure many people have had this issue and are unsure how to fix it. That tape you mentioned is widely available at electronic supply stores, but I suspect shielding material can potentially be sourced from "coaxial cables" (Cable TV wire). But perhaps copper tape might be a better choice seeing how it might do a better job. Thanks for making the very helpful video.
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awesome info, and explanation on how to properly shield your GPS wires.
Will be referencing this vid in the near future. Just waiting for the Roma F5 to come back in local stock. I already lost a Roma L3 in the ocean because my analog goggles went black. wanting a dedicated ocean, mountain, scenic quad that can carry a GoPro with a GPS.
Bummer that Roma L3 didn't have GPS. FYI, the Roma L4 is perfect for mid-long-range and I use mine all the time.
@@AlbertKimTV thanks for the suggestion, will look into that and see if it's in stock locally
Great information.
What I use instead of the copper tape, is normal 50 ohm coax shielding.
How flexible is that?
@@AlbertKimTV to be honest it's not too bad, and your idea of using material tape sounds quite good. What I have done in the past was to use heat shrink and I feel that is what introduces the rigidness
I had so many gps issues for years, finally got good gps signal moving the gps forward to the battery strap, might mount it at the very front soon too. Getting it far away from the VTX antenna makes a big difference.
Thanks Albert.
You're welcome
My only drone with GPS came on a Flywoo LR4. On the second flight it started beeping after I landed and never stopped. I ended up ripping it out of the drone and never replaced it. I don’t tend to fly long range, so it hasn’t been an issue so far. This has me thinking I should revisit GPS again. Albert, this is the second time this week you’re making me spend money. 😜
Oh wow! 🤣
@@AerialWaviator I got the cable still, but I think I damaged the actual GPS. More money to spend😫
FPV: fly. crash. repair. repeat
Excellent video with great information .
I have seen some videos of bnf drones where is hard to lock GPS . This tips might help those drones.
If the shield is not grounded it is not doing much, for better performance both ends of the shield should be connected to ground.
@@Adam_Carbone the shielding is to remove eletromagnetic interference. It is desired to have the shortest path to ground, connecting the shield on both sides reduces the path to ground
@@Adam_Carbone for this application, 1 Wire connected to ground should be enough. If both ends are connected to ground it is assured that there is less of a voltave between the shield and thus the shield is more efficient.
The way I did it seems good enough... not sure I need more than 21 satellites... 😎😎
@@AlbertKimTV that's enought for sure ! Nice work.
I need to try the shielding on a new walksnail vtx conversion. Gps fine on the analog vtx but ws must have more interferance.
That tpu antenna mount might just work or come close to what I need for a different build. Have you seen the stl file for it?
Aside thank you very much I finally fixed my gps thanks to this video ❤
Great!
Thanks! The 1w HDzero vtx is amazingly noisy too. I’ve been struggling with this.
Definitely need this then! 😁
Thanks great Video
Thanks for watching
I just replaced the slow gps with the RDQ or Pyrodrone brand GPS. Both of them are much, much faster than what came on the quads. Both are inexpensive and the RDQ one is the exact size of what was in there. If you use the RDQ one, make sure that read about not using 5v. Not an issue because every FC I know has multiple voltages. Everything I fly has Vista
This is working for me!
Great!
Yep shield it, great tip.
Glad it helped
Hey Albert!
You know I use solder wick to shield my cables. I just use a piece of wick just large enough to slide my cables through and then add heat shrink. Makes for a little cleaner shield.
Any ways great video.
Interesting idea...
@@AlbertKimTV I was going to suggest copper braided sleeve which is basically the same as solder wick, you can get it in a variety of sizes from 2mm up. I am wondering if this would have any benefits applied to other cabling within the quad, certainly the video cabling could probably use this and maybe the signal cable between the ESC and FC?
I've been side mounting the GPS bc it's father's from the motors and all the other antennas and I'm less likely to crash up in the armpit of the quad. I'm getting great results even without shielding. About a min and a half in a new spot before I get sat lock
keeping it away from RF noise always helps
Hi there, I wonder could I use foil paper instead of corper?
I'm having a similar problem. My drone won't arm until the FC is satisfied with the GPS signal lock per BetaFlight settings. I first had the GPS mounted at the back of my drone right by the RX and VTX antennas and it would take FOREVER, like 5 minutes+, to get the GPS lock just so I could arm it and fly. So then I decided to try a longer cable and mounted the GPS to the front of my craft (I'm using double-sided Alien tape for all this btw, I'm not fancy enough for a 3D printer yet lol) and that cut the time in half that it took to acquire the lock depending on the weather. It always seems to lock faster when the skies are clear as opposed to cloudy. I think I'm going to try putting some shielding around the GPS cable as you suggested.
You can reduce the number of satellites required. This will allow the FC to arm, but your failsafes won’t work as planned if they are needed during flight.
Funny that even DJI don't bother with this simple thing' One would think that their product is so expensive that they would shield some problems. Cheers for the tip.
nice find!! I wonder if it would also help with Video wires?
If RF noise is the source of your video problems. If it's something else, this won't help.
You could also try to add a capacitor !
can I use GND wire in different way ???? i have plug nad play gps module
faraday tubing! just put another slight bigger guage heatshrink over the conductive wrap.
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Could I ground the wire shielding to the black ground wire on the pig tail
Insulate the wiring. Never would have thought of that.
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I use an internet cable or TV cable ( take the foil that is wrapped inside), works great for me. It is the same thing. Good information by the way.
Yeah, that cable is already shielded.
I don’t have to worry about this yet so I’m just here to support the channel
Thanks for the visit!
Albert, i have same issue with my darwin129. Needs long time to lock gps.. ill follow your tips to covering wit copper isulation..my question is, i need little wire, solder to copper wire, then solder to any Flight controller GND??
I'm i right?
@@Adam_Carbone thx mate...
Any common ground.
@@nuno5125 thx mate..
Yes, the copper/metal shielding must be grounded so solder a wire to ground, but be careful of potential shorts since I've seen other people make mistakes here and short the FC and burn it.
@@AlbertKimTV ok..thx a lot..
USB cable can be used if gps is using 4 pairs, they are shielded and data pairs are twisted.
Soldering to the GPS plug is gonna be a challenge but that's a good alternative.
Hey Albert, thanks for all your videos, they are very useful. Help me understand how shielding the cable improves the Time to First Fix (TTFF)? From looking through the BF source code, it's apparent that BF does not calculate the GPS fix, its done within the GPS itself and the relevant info is reported over the serial interface using the NMEA or UBX interface protocol. Shielding the cable will reduce the noise on the serial interface but will not impact the operation of the GPS receiver. Generally the TTFF for a cold start (first power on after factory build, or first turn on after >6 months unused) on GPS can take up to 12 1/2 minutes, which is the time it takes for the satellite ephemeris data to be downloaded. The BN-220 has onboard flash and can store the ephemeris to support subsequent warm and hot starts which have a much faster TTFF (seconds vs minutes). Even after being off for a week or more, it will take a few minutes due to ephemeris updates (weeks). The BN-180 does not have the flash and basically goes through a cold start every time its powered up. There may be an error in my understanding of how BF uses the GPS information. So, all that to say, how does shielding the cable improve TTFF?
Let's say there is so much noise, no data is getting from the GPS to the FC. Then you're stuck on zero satellites reported by Betaflight even if everything inside the GPS is working OK. So everything working inside the GPS is useless unless the data can make it to the FC. In a lot of builds I've had I've been stuck on zero satellites for more than 20-30 minutes which makes no sense. Once I put on the shielding, the data is able to get through. So the GPS probably had this data already stored on the unit itself in stored memory and it just wasn't able to get the data to the FC through the cable because of the RF noise. This is also why Ethernet cabling is shielded. Even though it's digital data, the packets can still get corrupted from interference.
@@AlbertKimTV Makes perfect sense. I've never seen TTFF taking 20-30 minutes. The longest I've seen is about 12 minutes. I always mount my GPS modules on an arm about 1/2 way between the FC and a motor. The only time I've ever had a problem was once the GPS unit was too close and shielded by the battery and during flight it would drop GPS randomly while in flight. Good Luck!
About soldering it to ground: this is actually vital for this whole process. A shield that's not grounded, is actually amplifying noise as it speads local effects evenly all over the cable. So always make sure this shield is grounded or not use a shield at all and just twist the wires instead.
Yeah, I sometimes see bad info on Facebook that the shielding should NOT be grounded. I'm not sure how that info gets spread around so easily.
@@AlbertKimTV What I'm wondering though: Are those GPS units so sensitive to noise on these cables? This must be bad design then… And isn't long initial fix-time juse unavoidable without A-GPS?
I just use aluminium foil, it's a special non stick version, cut it into think strips then wrap it around the wires. Then use the same tape. I do it to the gps, camera, and vtx wires.
Is that conductive?
@@AlbertKimTV the shinny side is, the dull no stick side isn't unless you get melt through the non stick, a blob of solder does eventually stick to it. I put the non stick side on the outside.
Fantastic, Albert! Thanks a bunch for the tips! 😃
I was wandering exactly about copper tape when you mentioned it! I know and even have some here! 😂
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
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This will be handy if the elrs plus gps remote id ever come to pass.
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What do you think about the shielded wire from flywoo?
Hmmm, wasn't aware they made one. I couldn't find anything like this on their website.
Great video, another great solution is to use a 'Diatone Mamba Interferance Isolation Board' which is a "shielding pad" and ground it to -ve terminal.
That doesn't solve the problem with the cable from the FC to the GPS only RF interference from the ESC to the FC but could be helpful in other situations.
I do place the shield under the vista and not in the stack then run the gps wires under shield. Do get quick gps locks
hah, that TPU looks exactly the same as mine - the cheap one from Amazon... ;D
TPU?
I think he is refering to the blue TPU parts on the quad.
Flywoo have been doing this on the Explorer LR4 v2 and newer. Not sure if it’s grounded or not though.
I haven't seen the updated models yet.
I think it's a good idea to only have the RX and TX wires covered with a ground conductor, and do that separately between the RX and TX wires. what do you think?
Not sure how much difference that will make.
I'd recommend buying shielded multicore cable and a connector kit. Peel back one end enough to make a long wire out of the shileding that you can connect directly to ground.
Where can you buy that?
I don't have a problem with GPS, I can catch 20 satellites just fine. But I have a problem with the compass and I will probably try the procedure for the compass cable. Great video, thanks for the tip 😉
Try this.
Try this out, it might help, though there are also a lot of other reasons why the compass doesn't work which is well beyond the scope of this video.
@@AlbertKimTV The compass worked great when I tested INAV 2.6. The INAV 5 version was recently released, but the drone does not behave as well as the old version. At RTH, it aligns very slowly and makes circular movements. According to the internet it can be affected by cable interference, unfortunately I don't remember if I have everything assembled the same when I tested version 2.6. I thought of using the same GPS shielding and if that doesn't work I have to look for the problem elsewhere.
This video could have lasted 3 minutes. I love your content most of the time but this feels like your stretching it over 10 min on purpose. Nice hack nevertheless, my GPS always takes forever to lock and knowing my vista is cooking bothers me.. I'll try that, thanks.
I generally try to cover what a lot of people might miss so there is less confusion. Not everyone is as smart as you!
@@AlbertKimTV gotta love the sarcasm!
@@remizik Nice to see a thorough explanation... Too many reviewers on here seem to think that we are all experts... I'm no expert... Nor am i a newbee.. But still like the subject explained to the full... Well done I say.. This Hobby needs more reviewers that take this line of presentation.
This doesn’t seem like you enjoy the vids lol, a quick tip is to watch vids in 2x, or skip forward to the actual fix, some of us enjoy the journey
When you say you get 14 sat lock, does that number go up or down and do you see lat, long ? 14 is a placeholder number and that’s what I see in goggles even with no sats
Actually started around 4 within the first few seconds, then went up to 9 then 14 within about 20 seconds. Outdoors, I get up to 21 sats max. It fluctuates around as I fly but consistently stays above 10 sats.
Thank you very much, I tried wrapping it in tin foil, didn’t work, gonna give this copper wire a shot and ground it, does gps placement make a difference? Mine is a 2.5” build and only place I have is above the camera
Why not just buy a roll of RF shielding tape (aka faraday cloth)?
I honestly never saw that tape. I'm going to search about it, thanks!
@@Adam_Carbone problem with solid versus mesh type shielding tape is it's not as flexible. In either case, it needs to be grounded or it will just make EMI issues worse. The single biggest issue is putting the GPS antenna too close to other transmitter devices. GPS runs in the 1.2 & 1.5GHz spectrums, but are susceptible to RF harmonic / noise floor issues caused by some VTX systems and control link systems that transmit telemetry. 900MHz links like crossfire is usually the prime culprit, but even 2.4GHz transmissions used by most control links and used by DJI VTX systems, especially at a high enough power level and antenna gain are more than capable of creating interference to disrupt GPS communications, especially on the low gain passive antennas these modules typically use. That's why things like GPS mate work (it shuts off all the extra noise for initial sat lock, but if you are too close to RF interference, you can still quickly lose track of those satalites once everything else is powered up). RF shielding can help, but antenna placement is everything at the end of the day.
@@MCsCreations That copper tape is available at electronic supply stores. It would have been a store similar to "Radio Shack."
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conductive tape what use diatone mine I ordered from ally but... If you FC with Bluetooth forgot nothing helps me
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I need to try this.
Why not do this with all the cables?
The eletromagnetic interference is worst at higher frequencies, GPS run at high frequency.
The other cables do not need because the frequency is lower.
Too much work and in some instances it is not necessary. Air unit lite puts out a signal and GPS outs out a signal. Other components can create interference, but their interference is negligible. These two are where the issue lies.
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Ground both sides of the shielding or you will be creating an antenna instead.
You mean on the top and on the bottom (adhesive) side? Or on both sides of the cable?
Tbf I'm not an engineer or a professional in anyway. But from what I can remember having a conductor that's grounded at one end creates an antenna tuned to 1/4 the wavelength of the length of the antenna.
@@Kapharnaum92 the beginning and the end of it.
One side is grounded, the whole thing is grounded. It's an antenna if you're soldering the wire to signal instead of ground. You're confused here
woot
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Get a piece of old RG59 or RG6 coax cable... The kind we used to use to connect our TVs before HDMI. Strip it and recover the shield from it, slide your cables in the shield and you are done! $0.
Wow, I used to have a lot of that stuff sitting around but gave it away about a decade ago.
Awesome, interesting and informing video. There is something that I'm having a tough time reconciling with your experience with getting more stas after applying the shielding - As far as I know, the communication between the satellite receiver and the FC is serial (ie digital). Shielding or not shielding this cable should not affect how many satellites that the receiver can pick up. If there is too much RF noise, then the GPS basically won't be able to communicate (ie sats drop to zero), but I'm having a difficult time imagining a scenario where shielding on the communication wire can actually affect the sensor itself.
Another thing I'd like to address for people is the speed of 'finding' the satellites - GPS receivers don't "look" for satellites like some might expect - they need to download the almanac, which takes exactly 12.5 minutes. No GPS receiver will be able to download it faster than any other. So, from a cold start with old almanac data, it takes exactly 12.5 mi9nutes to 'find' all the satellites. The difference is that more sensitive receivers can detect MORE of them, which makes it seem like it's detecting them faster. The result is the same, you get a lock faster because you find more sats, you just don't find those sats any faster than any other receiver. Not saying this because you said otherwise, just pointing it out for some people.
If you got all those sats in 30 seconds after putting the shielding on, it's likely due to the fact that you've been using the receiver already in the same spot and it had already discovered the sats (receivers usually have memory on them so they don't have to download the almanac every times you turn them on). A common problem people have of having to wait forever every time theyr turn on their quad is often because the battery in the gps is dead, so it has to d/l the almanac every time.
Shielding does not affect the sensor, it reduces eletromagnetic interference on the wires thus letting the FC communicate with the GPS.
@@nuno5125 You are saying the same thing I am. IN the video, Albert noticed that it discovers more sats after shielding the cable. I'm saying that it's due to something else because the shielding does not affect the sensor.
@@MactacFPV i am not sure why it gets more satellites, maybe with interference some satellites information is lost at the wires.
@@nuno5125 It's digital information, so it shouldn't get lost. It will either work or it won't because it's communicating via a UART.
I'm just sharing my results the way I experienced it. I can only assume the RF interference is causing some data to get corrupted or lost in the cable when it goes from the sensor in the GPS to the FC. All I know is that I experience a dramatic improvement in speed and the number of satellites. I've done this on several quads with similar results. Let's just say I'll be doing it this way on all my quads going forward and it's a results I feel is consistent enough to share with everyone else.
DIY shielded cable.
There’s more than one solution available. For starters you can use aluminum foil instead of the more expensive copper tape. Many commercial shielded cables have aluminum foil, or mylar foil.
You can also repurpose many computer peripheral cables. Such as USB or serial cables. As many are shielded and have enough conductors in them. Just be aware that cheap USB and computer cables are often not shielded.
Yes, there's probably over 100 different ways to do this. I obviously can't cover all of them in one video.
what the heck is this sorcery!?
Ha ha ha....
Something that should have already been in place?
Tip: Use shielding of network cable, if you have no copper tape
😎
Shielding the cable makes it sound like bad communication between the gps and the FC, but GPS module is just communicating on a uart same as any other device hooked up to a FC.
How does shielding the cabe help the gps antenna? The uart doesn’t pickup satellites the gps does. Right?
I assume some data is getting corrupted or lost in transmission in the wire from the RF interference. So while the GPS is getting good data, that data isn't always making it to the FC resulting in poor performance.
Power supply noise is going to gps and rising noise floor. GPS is really weak signal so you want to keep signal to noise ratio high as possible. Serial communication is not affected.
I did exactly this a few months ago and it helped some. You have to use really thin copper foil tape, otherwise the cable is too stiff. And I made the mistake of using heatshrink. I could barely bend it. Your tape suggestion is much better.
For me, what helped the most was to move the GPS away from the VTX antennas. On the Chimera 7 w/ DJI the antennas basically cover up the tiny GPS.
I don't know about 14 sats indoors. Maybe by a window. I think some GPS units have batteries and memory to retain sats from a previous lock. I'd see 14 sats the OSD on my C7 while indoors, but I know it didn't have a lock because the green light on the GPS wasn't flashing.
Getting a good lock also depends on the time of day or just luck. Even on my Mavics, on some days I just couldn't get a lot of sats.
I'm going to get a fan to cool the Air Unit if I have to wait for sats.
Yeah, I got 14 sats on the first try indoors on a GPS with no previous lock. You might have made a mistake somewhere.
it looks like it's grounded at the plug side, there's an extra black wire looped over. or is that just a weird view on the video?
I don't think it is connected at the plug.
No, just at the FC side
My DJI Rekon35 GPS wouldn't work until I installed a low BAUD rate 9600 rated GPS module. Serial Soft speed was my problem.
Another solution to this problem is to use a ferrite ring from inductors or chokes. It is enough to make 3-4 turns of the cable around the ring and this will significantly speed up the launch of the GPS module.
How much weight does that add?
@@AlbertKimTV about 5-10 grams. depends on ring size.
One problem with ferrites is that they attenuate noise at certain frequency so you need to know at which frequency the noise is. So with one ring you can have luck but the other can work at different frequency also number of turns is crucial, more is better.
I thought everyone knew this lol
By the looks of these comments, that clearly isn't the case!