Great video and great comparision. I want to point out few things that I think are important. I don't think "Anti-jamming capable" means immune to any interferance. It's just tuned to filter-out specific jammer signals and/or interference around receiver. And also I think It's a feature that comes with u-BLox Gen 10 receivers, rather than something Caddx engineered or implemented. It's funny that they are selling this chip labeled "Anti-Jamming" because in real, anti-jammer electronics are quite expensive too big to fit such a small form factor.
I value a "failed" test like this far more than yet another gushing review from someone who got given free stuff. My opinion of your integrity has never been higher.
very nice video. finally a test to confirm whats on my mind for long time. i just got the newest M10 iflight GPS and plug that on my evoque. results are insane! i got 32 sats while flying. more than i ever saw in my OSD. cold start with antennas VERY close to GPS was 30sec and hot start was like 1 second. plug in lipo and have 15 sats.
I agree, Matek prices are getting a bit steep. I've let them off because their products are very good, but now we're starting to see other companies produce comparable products at a fraction of the price, it's going to be hard to justify sticking with them
Very similar to what I found comparing the Wallsnail GPS with a BN180, if the GPS is too close ( a few cm) to a V1.0 VTX antenna, the broadband noise simply masks the weak GPS signal. Moving the GPS to the front of the quad or into a null of the VTX antenna things improve and GPS locks quickly. I suspect the M10 chip has better dynamic range and this may be what they base the claim on ( the ability to cope with a strong out of band VTX signal) but that won't fix any VTX noise issues already in the GPS frequency range. The Walksnail GPS works well given a chance and great value, its just not a silver bullet
I can't speak for everyone, but even if the claims were true, I think I'd still follow the general rule of thumb that's worked for me over the years: If you can't put the GPS sensor higher than your VTx and Telemetry Rx antennas, then get it as far away as practical with an unobstructed view to the sky, by anything denser than foam. Most of my builds I have it inside the battery tunnel, (Dolphin, Airloader), or right on top of the FC in some cases, but still away from the VTx and Rx antennas. Now where the heck is that compass interference video, I stumbled on this one and got hooked lol!!
The anti-jamming/anti-spoofing feature on the u-blox modules does NOT protect the module from interferences. It just detects and reports them. I think that's pretty clear from the datasheet.
Yeah, that V1 unit has been giving me fits. Been using a Matek M10Q-5883 on the front of my quad with the V1 all the way in the back. Despite this, I sometimes still struggle to maintain a good lock, even if I let the GPS do its thing before powering video. Might try shielding the wires to see if it helps, but it's awfully frustrating.
I think you need to let the GPS run a few 3D fix cycles before testing it. I found with the Matek M10 GPS the first few boots were very slow to get fix until the almanac battery charged up and the almanac updated.
If you watch till the end of the video, you'll see I did do the tests multiple times. However the result for me was always the same. When interference was removed from the equation, it worked great and would get a decent lock in a short amount of time. But every time interference was introduced the module then failed to get a lock. I tried to be as scientific and methodical as possible in my tests, and to give the unit a fair chance, but unfortunately it just never quite lived up to the hype 🤷
@@Crunklefloop @Giz FPV ... in my tests with the newer M10 chips It felt like the old M8 (eg Beitian BN-180) outperformed the newer ones ... faster ... more connections! I tested with the BZGNS BZ-121 and BN.Z-251 ( which I then sold after the tests). Let's hope its not the same for all the M10 units popping up lately Cheers Gents
@@Crunklefloop bn-880 was fine for my quad and best choice. But the walksnail offers a mag for that price and size too. The bzgnss bz-251 was fast but it’s mag didn’t play ball with me which makes INAV go toilet bowling in pod hold or rth. Let’s see how the new BE series performs
Exellent❤❤❤, try the flyfish m10, i got a sat fix while setting my drones pids up and its about 4" away from the vtx v2 single antenna. So i get 8-10 sats in 1 minute now
The best way 8 found to have gps lock is to power the FC through USB, check with powering the drone to get video feed. Then remove USB, unplug and replug immediately xt60 to keep the gps lock before vtx initialisé and send feedback
A GPS powered via USB makes bench testing so much easier. Can also use a micro-power pack to warm up the gps pre-flight, so no delay getting lock (no overheated VTx, etc)
I think FC processor MAY have an impact. My M10, hooked to a H7 FC, picked up 7 satellites on it , first connect in 3 minutes on my bench, where i have never had a full 3d lock (arming/6 sats). Thinking my bench gps issues are behind me, i wire the same m10 GPS into a f405 FC, and it may have been slightly faster than a non m10 gps. Never a 6 satalite lock. I then moved it back to the H7, i got 11 sats on the bench. To be fair , i have not taken my non m10 and connect it to my H7 FC. Im curious , but not THAT curious :) Either way, its not enough data to draw a conclusion, hoping to hear others experience..
Thanks for the testing and comparison, dude! 😊 But it is what it is. You can't make magic, right? (Right???) Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I'm sure I could make magic, if I was one of those TH-camr's that faked test results to keep the company happy. Thankfully I'm not one of those guys tho :p
Could it be that it's just physically shielded against noise sources near the horizon to block out other antennae on the same craft, and that the reduced dome of visible sky accounts for the slightly lower satellite count?
I have the newest Matek M10 chipset. Bought it because it was theost expensive GPS module that would fit, but it perform almost the SE as my 2 year old modules ... Locks maybe 10-15 seconds quicker... Not worth the extra cash IMO
Hmmm... a shame. I had hopes. Oh well. I keep my GPS modules on the front arm of my quads far from the VTXes. In addition I try to use a ViFly GPS Mate.
The Arduplane society recommends the M10 modules. Probably for a good reason. You should have let the module do a few coldstarts before testing. This renders your review inconclusive, albeit interesting.
I did do multiple tests with this unit (mentioned this towards the end of the video) but the results where always the same. I think the results are fairly conclusive, it's a entirely decent GPS unit, but it's no more immune to interference than any other GPS module
The Walksnail GPS is cheaper even than you showed. It has a built in compass and the Matek unit you compared it to does not so for the same functionality you need to compare it to the m10-5883 or the new m10q-5883. I'm sure both of those Matek units will still outperform the Walksnail but they are significantly more expensive than either unit featured here in the video. Point is the Walksnail WS_M181 is about 1/3 the price of the Matek M10-5883 or M10Q-5883 and offers the same functionality and features.
Yeah I didn't have high hopes tbh. As far as I know, the only way to improve a GPS module's reception in a high noise environment is to provide it with constellation data in advance (ublox assistnow for example)
I got a walksnail gps to. And testet it on my wing. I got in like 2 min 20 sats. And in the air i was all the time on 27 - 29 sats. I was shocked by those results
That's great to know. Unfortunately I haven't had clear skies here recently, so the most I've seen in any of my tests has been 15 sats. But I can believe it's capable of way more. As I said in my video, aside for the lack of immunity to interference, it seems to be a decent GPS module
I also share the same results as simifpv. I have recently switched from Matek M8Q-5883 to Walksnail WS-M181. With Walksnail GPS I can get a gps lock in cloudy days within a minute on cold start, and then within a few mins stays solid around 16 sats, and when sky is clear I get easily 20+ sats, my max so far was 28 (from 32 max), so I’m supper happy with it. My results are a lot better with Walksnail module, but I have DJI O3 VTX so I don’t get that bad interference as you do, even being so close to the O3 antenna.
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Great video and great comparision. I want to point out few things that I think are important.
I don't think "Anti-jamming capable" means immune to any interferance. It's just tuned to filter-out specific jammer signals and/or interference around receiver. And also I think It's a feature that comes with u-BLox Gen 10 receivers, rather than something Caddx engineered or implemented.
It's funny that they are selling this chip labeled "Anti-Jamming" because in real, anti-jammer electronics are quite expensive too big to fit such a small form factor.
I value a "failed" test like this far more than yet another gushing review from someone who got given free stuff. My opinion of your integrity has never been higher.
this fits my assumptions and all the testing i did with 4 different m10s and a matek.
Do you find much difference in performance with the new M10's? I've tried 2 now and can't say I see any noticeable improvement over M8's
very nice video. finally a test to confirm whats on my mind for long time.
i just got the newest M10 iflight GPS and plug that on my evoque. results are insane! i got 32 sats while flying. more than i ever saw in my OSD.
cold start with antennas VERY close to GPS was 30sec and hot start was like 1 second. plug in lipo and have 15 sats.
Great review 👍
Thanks Giz
TBF Matek prices have become obscene lately. Just look at the FC prices, beyond a joke...🤔😳😳🇬🇧
I agree, Matek prices are getting a bit steep. I've let them off because their products are very good, but now we're starting to see other companies produce comparable products at a fraction of the price, it's going to be hard to justify sticking with them
What brands do you suggest to look at?
@@gperpetuo Speedy Bee...😏😏😀
@@EnglishTurbines thanks!
Very similar to what I found comparing the Wallsnail GPS with a BN180, if the GPS is too close ( a few cm) to a V1.0 VTX antenna, the broadband noise simply masks the weak GPS signal. Moving the GPS to the front of the quad or into a null of the VTX antenna things improve and GPS locks quickly.
I suspect the M10 chip has better dynamic range and this may be what they base the claim on ( the ability to cope with a strong out of band VTX signal) but that won't fix any VTX noise issues already in the GPS frequency range. The Walksnail GPS works well given a chance and great value, its just not a silver bullet
if someone could build a jam proof gps they wouldn't sell them to us and definitely not for 30$.
I can't speak for everyone, but even if the claims were true, I think I'd still follow the general rule of thumb that's worked for me over the years: If you can't put the GPS sensor higher than your VTx and Telemetry Rx antennas, then get it as far away as practical with an unobstructed view to the sky, by anything denser than foam. Most of my builds I have it inside the battery tunnel, (Dolphin, Airloader), or right on top of the FC in some cases, but still away from the VTx and Rx antennas. Now where the heck is that compass interference video, I stumbled on this one and got hooked lol!!
That Matek GPS unit is a beast. Gets a lock on my Mini Talon within 10 seconds. Got a Betian 880 and 220 and they both take at least twice as long.
The anti-jamming/anti-spoofing feature on the u-blox modules does NOT protect the module from interferences. It just detects and reports them. I think that's pretty clear from the datasheet.
Yeah, that V1 unit has been giving me fits. Been using a Matek M10Q-5883 on the front of my quad with the V1 all the way in the back. Despite this, I sometimes still struggle to maintain a good lock, even if I let the GPS do its thing before powering video. Might try shielding the wires to see if it helps, but it's awfully frustrating.
For me, shielding the cables of the Walksnail GPS module helped. I get 10-16 satellites within 1-2 minutes, even when I am very close to the antennas.
Nice test! Thanks.
Great review thank you!
Nice,..... gained in practice, for use in practice.
I think you need to let the GPS run a few 3D fix cycles before testing it. I found with the Matek M10 GPS the first few boots were very slow to get fix until the almanac battery charged up and the almanac updated.
If you watch till the end of the video, you'll see I did do the tests multiple times. However the result for me was always the same. When interference was removed from the equation, it worked great and would get a decent lock in a short amount of time. But every time interference was introduced the module then failed to get a lock. I tried to be as scientific and methodical as possible in my tests, and to give the unit a fair chance, but unfortunately it just never quite lived up to the hype 🤷
@Giz FPV I did watch it, but in a cafe whilst I was trying to feed a 2yo lunch so missed that part.
Shame it's another hype train victim.
@@Crunklefloop @Giz FPV ... in my tests with the newer M10 chips It felt like the old M8 (eg Beitian BN-180) outperformed the newer ones ... faster ... more connections! I tested with the BZGNS BZ-121 and BN.Z-251 ( which I then sold after the tests).
Let's hope its not the same for all the M10 units popping up lately
Cheers Gents
@JustFPV interesting stuff.
I've always found the BN220 and BN880 GPS units to be perfectly good.
@@Crunklefloop bn-880 was fine for my quad and best choice. But the walksnail offers a mag for that price and size too. The bzgnss bz-251 was fast but it’s mag didn’t play ball with me which makes INAV go toilet bowling in pod hold or rth.
Let’s see how the new BE series performs
Exellent❤❤❤, try the flyfish m10, i got a sat fix while setting my drones pids up and its about 4" away from the vtx v2 single antenna.
So i get 8-10 sats in 1 minute now
The best way 8 found to have gps lock is to power the FC through USB, check with powering the drone to get video feed. Then remove USB, unplug and replug immediately xt60 to keep the gps lock before vtx initialisé and send feedback
I have just a JST connector in the VTX power line. and power up the vtx past the lock.
A GPS powered via USB makes bench testing so much easier. Can also use a micro-power pack to warm up the gps pre-flight, so no delay getting lock (no overheated VTx, etc)
I usually put my GPS on a stalk at the front of the quad. 23 Sats on a clear day isn't unusual using Galileo..😏😏
I think FC processor MAY have an impact.
My M10, hooked to a H7 FC, picked up 7 satellites on it , first connect in 3 minutes on my bench, where i have never had a full 3d lock (arming/6 sats).
Thinking my bench gps issues are behind me, i wire the same m10 GPS into a f405 FC, and it may have been slightly faster than a non m10 gps. Never a 6 satalite lock.
I then moved it back to the H7, i got 11 sats on the bench.
To be fair , i have not taken my non m10 and connect it to my H7 FC. Im curious , but not THAT curious :) Either way, its not enough data to draw a conclusion, hoping to hear others experience..
Copper foil tape :) good for noise,used in most mil spec equipment
The iflight gps module that came installed on my cx-10 gets 27 satellites in less than 3 minutes and the hglrc and walksnail ones i own get 8-10 tops
Thanks for the testing and comparison, dude! 😊
But it is what it is. You can't make magic, right? (Right???)
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I'm sure I could make magic, if I was one of those TH-camr's that faked test results to keep the company happy. Thankfully I'm not one of those guys tho :p
Try a full grounded RF shield on the cables [BTW what freq and power are you using?]
BN220 has never let me down.
I've actually never used one, always used Matek. I've heard only good things though
I take that back bn220 doesn't play well with Avatar system 🙈
Could it be that it's just physically shielded against noise sources near the horizon to block out other antennae on the same craft, and that the reduced dome of visible sky accounts for the slightly lower satellite count?
I have the newest Matek M10 chipset. Bought it because it was theost expensive GPS module that would fit, but it perform almost the SE as my 2 year old modules ... Locks maybe 10-15 seconds quicker... Not worth the extra cash IMO
Yeah I've tried a few M10 GPS modules now, and TBH can't say I notice they work any better (or worse) than the M8's I was using before
Is it possible that you have not grounded the copper shield? You must have the copper shield connected to the same ground as the GPS module.
I had same problems with same setup
My HD camera must be off for the GPS (Beitian 880q) to get a fix.
Hmmm... a shame. I had hopes. Oh well.
I keep my GPS modules on the front arm of my quads far from the VTXes.
In addition I try to use a ViFly GPS Mate.
What's the standard orientation ont his unit.. it's not stated anywhere
The antenna (the bit with the logo on it) should always face up towards the sky
As the icon on the bottom left indicates, it’s fake news. Btw often it is not the VTX but the HD cam jamming the GPS.
Beitian all day long, cheap as hell and rock solid. Never had a problem with them.
why gps why not rtk?
for proper test remove the cell battery from gps
love the monkey XD
The Arduplane society recommends the M10 modules. Probably for a good reason. You should have let the module do a few coldstarts before testing. This renders your review inconclusive, albeit interesting.
I did do multiple tests with this unit (mentioned this towards the end of the video) but the results where always the same. I think the results are fairly conclusive, it's a entirely decent GPS unit, but it's no more immune to interference than any other GPS module
Este GPS es mentira que sea inmune a las interferencias. A mí no me funcionó.
First !
I almost did not subscribe when you started showing trump.
Video to prove flyfish brandnew
M10 GPS FLYFISH 12*12 ANTENNA
th-cam.com/video/D_u47YJzTH0/w-d-xo.html
THANKS
The Walksnail GPS is cheaper even than you showed. It has a built in compass and the Matek unit you compared it to does not so for the same functionality you need to compare it to the m10-5883 or the new m10q-5883. I'm sure both of those Matek units will still outperform the Walksnail but they are significantly more expensive than either unit featured here in the video.
Point is the Walksnail WS_M181 is about 1/3 the price of the Matek M10-5883 or M10Q-5883 and offers the same functionality and features.
👌👌
How timely, just when I have had a bad GPS issue in flight :)
Yea this GPS was never going to solve the issue of the VTX spewing out lots of noise as it does. No gps will get past that.
Yeah I didn't have high hopes tbh. As far as I know, the only way to improve a GPS module's reception in a high noise environment is to provide it with constellation data in advance (ublox assistnow for example)
@@gizfpv Prepower the gps for a few mins before powering the noisy components on your craft.
I do this by using 3v3 or 4v5 and a usb powerbank.
I got a walksnail gps to. And testet it on my wing. I got in like 2 min 20 sats. And in the air i was all the time on 27 - 29 sats. I was shocked by those results
That's great to know. Unfortunately I haven't had clear skies here recently, so the most I've seen in any of my tests has been 15 sats. But I can believe it's capable of way more. As I said in my video, aside for the lack of immunity to interference, it seems to be a decent GPS module
I also share the same results as simifpv.
I have recently switched from Matek M8Q-5883 to Walksnail WS-M181.
With Walksnail GPS I can get a gps lock in cloudy days within a minute on cold start, and then within a few mins stays solid around 16 sats, and when sky is clear I get easily 20+ sats, my max so far was 28 (from 32 max), so I’m supper happy with it.
My results are a lot better with Walksnail module, but I have DJI O3 VTX so I don’t get that bad interference as you do, even being so close to the O3 antenna.