One of the best videos about guitars. I really wish every guitar player see this. Tons of good and true information for a 16 minutes video without bs things a lot of guitar players believe and unfortunately a lot of TH-cam channels promote, even some big ones. Thank You
Thanks for useful tips! However, one significant issue wasn't discussed - the strings action. With too low action strings touch frets while vibrating , so it reduces sustain dramatically. And one more significant one - the strings gauge. The bigger the gauge, the higher is string tension and the less is sustain.
Why would there be less sustain with bigger string gauge? The mass of the string is bigger, so it also throws more mass when vibrating, it also vibrates on the same frequency as less gauge strings (same tuning) and could possibly mean that there is more sustain due to the more mass.
If you think of a thick string vs a skinnier string, at different tensions to attain the same frequency or note, you would probably see that it takes more force on the thicker, higher tensioned string to attain the same vibration sustain. Due to tension, it's pulling harder on the string, which in turn would force it to flatten or straighten out faster. So if you used plucking force as a constant, I would assume the thinner, less tensioned string to continue to vibrate longer. You got me wondering though.
Heavier gauge strings actually sustain more, just compare the sustain of the low E and high E strings of a guitar, the heavy low E sustains much more than the treble E string.
The point about the strength of the magnets impeding the vibration of the string's is interesting. This could explain why some of the old timers liked to have their pickups closer to the body, away from the strings without really knowing why, except that they liked the sound better.
Wow! I’ve been searching for some in depth sustain analysis and I think I’ve resolved my sustain problem on an 81’ Ibanez iceman with a very simple pickup height adjustments. Thank you. So simple even a kid could do it!
Nice video and very helpful! I have an SE PRS, good guitar, but horrible sustain… So I was looking to how upgrade it. Then come this video, actually I am working my bends 😂 …. Of course, and excess of pressure don’t allow the string to vibrate, so we’re killing the sustain when bending with maximum strength. After that, I think changing the low cost - but nicely polished - frets, which he nuts , the tremolo bridge suddle and also put a higher string action.
I use a good rack mount compressor limiter gate unit for “sustain”. I do have a guitar with ferrules and a roller bridge for its increased sustain concept. (It’s a guitar that I test everything on so it’s pretty crazy) Again, great video!
Great tips! I love how clearly you explain the reasons behind the point and very helpful ways to avoid problems. That purple guitar is looking so close to finished, is this the last time I'll be seeing it in your videos? hehe.
I think a lot of energy is lost on necks with double action truss rods. My logic being that they are a separate closed system, eg , the two rods in a double create tension against eachother, that is inside of another system being , the strings and neck wood. Where as a single action has tension in relation to the neck wood, meaning that they are one system , so in conjunction with the strings and the pre-loaded tension , it should resonate more like a harp.
I think if you drew that out, you would see it’s no actual difference. It just distributes load differently. 90% of sustain is things in direct contact/ proximity with the strings. The neck absorbs energy if anything. Most of what we do is to try to get things NOT to absorb the strings energy.
good info, especially regarding frets and the need to radius the fret slots. If I may add that in my experience a guitar that has a set neck is very resonant, as compared to a bolt on neck where there is a thick layer of finish inside the neck slot- yuck!
Halfway into this and I'm already drawing conclusions, (it's one of my flaws) ... basically, force as much vibration into the string between the nut and bridge as possible. Anything that can help the string move freely, AND force, or direct vibration back into the string without ejecting it elsewhere. Your fingers as well can dampen the sustain, such things as keeping your finger as steady as possible with as little contact as possible, rolling the finger even slightly into the note could drown it right? Imagine holding a Phillips head screwdriver straight onto the string over the nut, plucking the string. Some vibration will go past the screwdriver...would it be proper to say that if you dampen the area beyond the fret, would that take away vibration between the nut and bridge, or help hold the vibration, contain it within, better. I'm an archer so this analogy kinda goes hand in hand with this if I'm thinking of it right. Imagine the string on a recurve bow, when you draw back and release, shockwaves run through the string, into the bow, and along its length until it reaches your hand at the grip...and then continues through your hand, arm, etc. By putting rubber dampeners on the bow body between the string and grip on each end, it absorbs the shock at your hand... (? forcing the vibrations to travel back into the string?), and at the absorption point. (? or would dampening kill it...absorb/dampen the vibration at the absorption point. All this begs to question the viability of tone wood theories as well. It almost seems like dense woods would help to carry vibrations away from the strings, hence killing sustain, however forcing vibration through the wood, increasing volume and tone (subjectively). Sorry, I'm thinking way too much into this, which is why I thank you for this video... and all your other technical videos as well. Keep up the good work.
Interesting indeed. I was thinking about this as well and came to another conclusion. When you fret a note, your finger's ''meat'' would absorb close to no vibration as the string is actually resting on the fret which bring us back to the former explanation in the video regarding everything sitting beyond the bridge and the nut having little to no effect on sustain. This said, proper fingering would be mandatory cse if you wouldn 't fret a note correctly, your finger flesh could Indeed be dampening the string vibration. Am I wrong here? Finally, I think sustain and tone much come down to the player himself.
I did archery too and little guitar building and many mods. Had similar thoughts about the analogy to bow dampeners. I intend to test the effect of weight on the neck pocket. More weight should change the way how the guitar "bow" (body, neck, headstock) reacts to vibration. Adding a rubber dampener outside the neck heel kills sustain for sure. But how about weighty brass or steel plates? Will it slow down vibration and sucking the high frequencies making the guitar sound fuller and warmer but prolonging the sustain too? Or will it do sound wise the same but robbing sustain? We'll see... 🤷🏻 I also think a angled headstock acts similar to the bow tips of a recurve turkish bow. Giving more punch to the sound milliseconds after plucking. More weight= stronger attack but not necessarily a faster attack... The same archery bow sounds different with different brace heights. That's why I think the Les Paul sounds so different to others, mostly because of the elevated bridge (beside shorter scale length and overall shape and construction). Me too: too much thinking! Should better practice more😅
Great informations! What do you think about alnico 5s like texas specials? Do they have good sustain? I tried them from my friends strat. It was american deluxe or something like that. modern bridge and stuff. And really like the sustain and the pickups. I have custom shop 60s style vintage strat. Do you think if a drop texas specials do i get similar tone and sustain?
String length behind the saddles, like on a Jazzmaster or Jaguar, happen to decrease sustain, because of that extra mass of strings also vibrating and losing energy. And what about Fender Bullet strings, do they add sustain when used on a Strat type guitar, because of the closer contact to the trem block?
I do repair work on the side, and think you should stop gluing in the frets because it's bad for my business. :D Joke aside, I see lots of lifted frets, it's the second thing I check after relief if there's fret buzz. Aiming for fret contact in the bottom of the slot sounds very risky to me, because it has to reference the fretboard surface to be level with the other frets. I always run a saw down the slots to ensure that there's enough room when I replace them. I then crown them slightly rounder than the board radius, hammer and glue them in. I've never had a single recall.
Thanks Chris for sharing. I’m at my first attempts to improve the nut on my non Floyd Rose guitars. Think it’s taking two or three attempts to try and error for myself to get all the details right. I was definitely on the wrong way on my first try and cut the slots way too deep. I should have been sanding down the bottom of the nut first and go from there 🙄 Maybe I’ll go for sanding the top now for less contact area on this one before replacing the whole thing again 😂 As long as it’s progressing it’s fine right?
Thank you very much for this very useful video and clear explanations. I have been thinking about the "minimum contact with the nut" issue - does it mean that locking nuts (where the strings are hardly pressed from both sides) provide less sustain than non-locking nuts?
The difference between a locking nut and a slotted bone nut is that the string is free to move back and forth, up and down, and side to side in the bone nut's slots while the strings in a locking nut can't move at all. If the slots in a bone nut are not cut properly and/or the string's break angle to the tuners is wrong, this movement can rob the string of sustain. With a locking nut, the strings can't move within the nut, so their vibrations are kept within the scale length where they can be detected by the pickups. In theory, a locking nut would be better for sustain, however, a bone nut with the slots cut correctly combined with the proper string break angle to the tuners can be just as good.
While I'm not arguing what does and doesn't make a difference in the guitars tone. We'll leave that for others to discus, often economics plays as big or bigger a role in guitar construction. Just as an example, I know that Gibson necks use a lot more wood in their construction than Fender because of the headstock angle. I understand that a lot of Gibson's decisions, materials, different geometries of their designs, brand of components, and construction are marketing based. It's what their customers insist on. So, I'm not trying to champion them or anything.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but it is quite unclear to me why the amount of contact between a string and the terminating surface (nut, fret, saddle) is a major factor in sustain, and if it is a factor why less contact is better and not worse. You've said that it impacts absorption of string vibration energy into the body, but has that theory been tested? If anything I'd expect that too little contact at the nut will cause more vibrations to be transferred to the section of the string behind the nut, which can result in noticeable noise when playing with distortion (a common problem on most guitars). If you think about it, the place where a string has a lot contact is at the tuner. In fact it's much more than you could ever have at the nut no matter how it's cut, or at the frets no matter how they are crowned. Especially if it's a non-locking tuner, you can easily have a couple of inches of the string tightly wrapped around the tuner post. So imagine a string suspended between two tuners. If your theory is correct, you should be able to demonstrate that fewer wraps around the post results in a measurable improvement in sustain. Personally, I'm skeptical about this.
Sustain on a solid body electric guitar is determined by how long the string vibrates over the pickups. Anything that touches the string between and including the nut and bridge saddles can kill sustain. What happens past the nut or the bridge has almost no impact on sustain. Acoustic guitars are another matter.
Thanks for the info! I’m wondering what your opinion is regarding trem blocks. I know you mentioned that beyond the saddle doesn’t matter as much but there are different options for trem block metals such as steel, brass, titanium, pot metal, etc. . Do you feel that these affect sustain or would they more affect tone? Thanks!
Informative as usual! Speaking of the nut and just a bit off topic, I've seen folks using a "compensated" nut. What's the purpose of that since intonation is performed at the bridge?
Bridge intonation is about 60% of the whole story. A compensated nut will improve intonation even more (if done correctly), but you still have the frets to deal with and they are in a fixed position. That's why the so called True Temperament frets are a thing. In the end, you have to ask yourself, "Is this really important to me?" For most it isn't. For some, precise intonation is necessary to avoid a trip to the rubber room.
@@HighlineGuitars I guess I just don't get it...Point-A to Point-B = N regardless if it's adj. at the nut or the bridge, compensation = simply moving the centroid within the segment and changing the scale length for that particular segment...seems like the adjustable saddle would accomplish the same thing if it was within the range of adjustment of the bridge, obviously I'm missing 40% of something, which seems like quite a large error? So the only sonic difference is where that centroid fell relative to pick-ups? Anyway sorry for derailing the discussion
@@svgs650r intonated correctly at the 12th fret, yes? But it will be slightly out at most other frets by varying and different degrees on each string, unless you're using wiggly true temperament frets. Have a close look at a TT neck - it's mind boggling how the size and position of each fret changes for each string if you truly want precision. Think of that TT pattern as the map of errors. A conventional neck is a compromise for simplicity. A true temperament neck is the no-compromise complexity. A compensated nut is a halfway house trying to redistribute the amount and position of those small errors more equally along the neck by adjusting from both ends. There's a loooooong description on the earvana website about their compensated nut and why/how it works, with way more factors than I'd even imagined or care about. It makes my head hurt, lol.
Thanks for the reply If only I hadn’t been around racing motorcycles and loud music for decades my barely macro-tonal ears could appreciate micro-tonal perfection
I have a question about titanium string locks for use in Floyd Rose bridge saddles. Many believe that they increase sustain - I assume because they are harder than the stock string locks - but my brain tells me that, because the saddles that the locks sit in remain zink alloy or whatever, any benefit would be lost as the saddles would just absorb any vibration that was formerly absorbed by the old string locks. What does anyone think? Worth a go or a waste of £40-50?
It is better to upgrade by replacing this bridge with one that already includes steel saddles. OFR, schaller, gotoh have steel saddles and the most important benefit of this material is the strength of the threads. Only in the cheapest licensed floyd bridges saddles are made of zinc, ZnAl or similar crap. Pure titanium is not very strong. Specialized titanium alloys can be very strong but also not to the extent that some people think, and at the same time they are much lighter than steel, which makes their superiority in terms of increasing sustain very questionable.
But string-through vs top loader bridges do have a tonal difference. Top loader bridges lose a good amount of upper harmonics (treble) which can make the guitar sound plastic-y. Max Solo had made a comparison video.
@@HighlineGuitars It's not a matter of belief. The difference is measurable if you run the audio through a spectrum analyzer, and the reason why it happens is still supported by what you said in the video. A top loader bridge due to its construction is more susceptible to parasitic resonance.
@@ErebosGR Who cares. Nobody has a spectrum analyzer in their head. Don’t waste time on minutiae. Focus on the factors that actually make a big impact.
IMHO the nut only has an effect on open chords and notes. I for one mainly play bar chords, power chords and fretted notes, so I doubt the nut will have much effect, as my left hand pretty much dampens any vibrations behind the fret.
I do not agree. You can try this: put a hairtie behind your fretting hand or before the nut, and one behind the nut. Now compare the single fretted notes and chords with and without the extra dampening. You will notice a slight loss of overtones and a tiny bit of sustain. The string bits behind the fretting hand and behind the nut are vibrating if not extra dampened, and feed back into the fretted string parts, giving them also more frequency content. Headstock vibration comes from the strings and neck directly and via the guitar body. This induces the most part of string vibration behind the fretting hand. The vibrating headstock feeds back into the body and so into the ongoing vibration of the fretted strings. Goes full circle. There is also sympathetic ring of the unplayed strings feeding into the neck, headstock and body . I just wonder how this myth of nothing happens behind the fretted notes could survive over 50 years till today. I checked as a guitar greenhorn 3 years after starting, and used my ears. Before those 3 years my ears were not sensitive enough... There is a lot going on behind the fretted frets and past the nut. 😊 To dampen everything behind your fretting hand, your hand must be as big to cover the whole headstock.😅😊 Cheers🤘
@@lone-wolf-1 There is a lot going on behind the fretting hand, otherwise headstock tuners wouldn't work. However all of it is coming from the main vibrating part of the string between the fret and the bridge. Not from the strings behind the fretting hand. They are totally out of tune with the fretted note and certainly wouldnt add desirable overtones or timbre to the fretted note. Cheers!
@@andywason3414 The little string bits behind the nut and bridge do indeed feed back into the sound of the strings between them. You also don't want that bits being in tune, because it would diminish sustain. Wolf tones or dead notes appear when some part of the guitar vibrates at the same frequency as that specific note. So, those string bits being out of tune actually helps for sustain. In fact you want the parts on a guitar to be relative resonant, but slightly off in frequency and time. Otherwise an instrument would sound poor. The amplitude of overtones from them string bits are also minuscule, but still have their contribution. I can tell that because I tested/noticed it. With hairties before and behind the nut, and after swapping the saddles of a TOM bridge with roller saddles. All of a sudden, behind the roller saddles there was a lot more vibration going on and the influence of the tail piece was coming into play. I got longer sustain and more overtones colouring pleasantly the sound . Cheers! 🤘
@@andywason3414 I'm curious about your experiments. What kind of? Then again, about those string bits behind the nut ans the nut: general opinion is that if the nut is made out of metal (idealy same as the frets) the open strings will sound like the fretted ones. But that is just partially correct. After swapping a plastic nut on a Ibanez GIO (wich indeed dampened a lot of the high frequencies) with a nut out of steel, I noticed that the open strings now have more overtones than the fretted ones. I expected them to sound the same, after hearing, reading that so often. I thought about it, and found out that the culprits are the string bits full of high frequencies behind the nut. Behind the nut are missing some dampening fingers like the fretting ones. I first tried with my fingers and then put a medium soft foam strip under the strings right behind the nut. NOW the open strings sound exactly like the fretted ones!🙌 Interesting: on another guitar (LP type) with a self cast brass nut out of melted brass screws, the open and fretted strings sound right away the same. I suppose because brass is softer than steel, and similar to the fret alloy. 🤷🏻 Graphite nuts do a good job regarding this. Almost no noticeable difference. And bone is pretty close, close enough to not complain. I feel that synthetic bone (never tried) is closer.
Thanks Chris for the great video once again! I‘ve got a bone (pun intended) about the nut increasing sustain though. It would seem logical to me that when not using open chords and playing lead at or above the first fret, that would put the nut out of the equation. Am I wrong with this theory?
Minimal contact at the nut when working with bone, ivory, tusk, graphite and so forth makes sense. What about locking nuts though, how would you say they effect sustain?
Hey Chris This is Matt a new guitar maker. I was wondering if you have ever done a video on body styles and copyrights? If I make a guitar like a tele or Les Paul are there any copyrights I have to avoid? Like if I make it to spec and try to sell it? Thanks I have learned more from your channel than any other
I can tell you right now the Gibson lawsuits made that a no, you can’t get in trouble for using a type of guitar body. If you go to custom websites they have every style under the sun.
I like the idea of using CA glue to connect the frets into the fret slots and make a solid connection between the two. If you later want to do a refret of these glued frets will you rip out the fret and a chunk of timber in the process thus making it impossible to refret again?
I work at the PRS factory and we superglue the frets down. If we need to do a re fret all you need to do is use a soldering iron and melt some solder onto the fret to heat it up and this destroys the glue. Then (while still heating the fret) you use your fret pullers and the fret comes right out. Just be careful not to heat it too long or the fretboard will get scorched
Does the nut play a role in sustain on fretted notes? Doesn't fretting a string take the nut out of the equation? Forgive me if you covered this and I missed it.
I also have a bad habit of asking the stuff all and all again. Just think yourself, it's so simple. When you play a string and press on a fret, does the string vibration go to the nut or not? Simply not, at this point string vibration goes from the bridge to the fret you press.
You were talking about brass saddles giving better sustain, how about brass nuts? I always wondered if our frets are made of steel than shouldn't the nut give better sustain if it was steel or brass instead of bone?
I'm interested in the bell brass saddles. I did a Google search and couldn't find any Fender style saddles. Do you know of a saddle that would work for these in that material?
@@HighlineGuitars It doesn't matter. I'm just asking if there are ANY made of the Bell Brass? Let's say Block style. I know the vintage countour has those BAR SADDLES. But there's none that I can find in the block style, 6 individual saddles.
I found tons of block saddles in brass. Bear in mind the term “bell brass” is just a fancy way of describing regular brass where guitar parts are concerned.
We need long sustain as a sign of unhindered and the less possible dampened string vibration. A freely vibrating string brings you frequency content and thus tone. 😊 For those complaining about no long sustain needed and 1 second is enough, I recommend trying this: replace nut and bridge with thick rubber till you achieve 1 sec sustain. Then play that guitar and ask again why we need sustain 😜
Your prove point doesn't make sense. Relating to why manufacturers do something is a failing point a priori. There could be a lot of reasons why some do something, you cannot just say that one does something for that reason just because you believe so. What you could do is do tests and experiments. That is logically an incorrect arhument.
![Six Secrets Of Sustain For Electric Guitar [And Quite A Bit On Feedback Too] - That Pedal Show](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2FIoy2w0ea8/mqdefault.jpg)
One of the best videos about guitars. I really wish every guitar player see this. Tons of good and true information for a 16 minutes video without bs things a lot of guitar players believe and unfortunately a lot of TH-cam channels promote, even some big ones.
Thank You
Wow, thanks! I really appreciate the kind words Payman!
Thanks for useful tips! However, one significant issue wasn't discussed - the strings action. With too low action strings touch frets while vibrating , so it reduces sustain dramatically. And one more significant one - the strings gauge. The bigger the gauge, the higher is string tension and the less is sustain.
Great point!
Why would there be less sustain with bigger string gauge?
The mass of the string is bigger, so it also throws more mass when vibrating, it also vibrates on the same frequency as less gauge strings (same tuning) and could possibly mean that there is more sustain due to the more mass.
If you think of a thick string vs a skinnier string, at different tensions to attain the same frequency or note, you would probably see that it takes more force on the thicker, higher tensioned string to attain the same vibration sustain. Due to tension, it's pulling harder on the string, which in turn would force it to flatten or straighten out faster. So if you used plucking force as a constant, I would assume the thinner, less tensioned string to continue to vibrate longer. You got me wondering though.
Heavier gauge strings actually sustain more, just compare the sustain of the low E and high E strings of a guitar, the heavy low E sustains much more than the treble E string.
What if pick the string really hard?
Excellent video as always, your explanations are so clear and easy to understand!
Glad you think so!
The point about the strength of the magnets impeding the vibration of the string's is interesting. This could explain why some of the old timers liked to have their pickups closer to the body, away from the strings without really knowing why, except that they liked the sound better.
I always prefer maximum contact with the tang. Great video.
Wow! I’ve been searching for some in depth sustain analysis and I think I’ve resolved my sustain problem on an 81’ Ibanez iceman with a very simple pickup height adjustments. Thank you. So simple even a kid could do it!
Thanks. Straight forward and clear. Plans are very nice. Bought 2 sets of guitar plans and CNC plans.
Awesome! Thanks Wyliam, and I hope you find the plans useful.
Yes agreed this makes a lot of sense !! Thanks Chris
Great information on sustain now I have some things to check out on my guitars. Great video!
Nice video and very helpful! I have an SE PRS, good guitar, but horrible sustain… So I was looking to how upgrade it. Then come this video, actually I am working my bends 😂 ….
Of course, and excess of pressure don’t allow the string to vibrate, so we’re killing the sustain when bending with maximum strength.
After that, I think changing the low cost - but nicely polished - frets, which he nuts , the tremolo bridge suddle and also put a higher string action.
"Hopefully it is an animal"
Great, now you got me thinking whether my guitar has a human bone on it or not
Man everyone knows the very best nut material comes from Trumpeter Swan shins😎
Awesome video, much appreciated!
I use a good rack mount compressor limiter gate unit for “sustain”.
I do have a guitar with ferrules and a roller bridge for its increased sustain concept.
(It’s a guitar that I test everything on so it’s pretty crazy)
Again, great video!
Rollers are for tuning stability. Points are better for sustain. It's all a trade off.
Bingo!
Phenomenal ! I learned so much here! Thank you sir!
Great to hear!
Great tips! I love how clearly you explain the reasons behind the point and very helpful ways to avoid problems. That purple guitar is looking so close to finished, is this the last time I'll be seeing it in your videos? hehe.
My Yamaha Pacifica has glued frets, surprised so many don’t.
I think a lot of energy is lost on necks with double action truss rods. My logic being that they are a separate closed system, eg , the two rods in a double create tension against eachother, that is inside of another system being , the strings and neck wood. Where as a single action has tension in relation to the neck wood, meaning that they are one system , so in conjunction with the strings and the pre-loaded tension , it should resonate more like a harp.
I think if you drew that out, you would see it’s no actual difference. It just distributes load differently. 90% of sustain is things in direct contact/ proximity with the strings. The neck absorbs energy if anything. Most of what we do is to try to get things NOT to absorb the strings energy.
good info, especially regarding frets and the need to radius the fret slots.
If I may add that in my experience a guitar that has a set neck is very resonant, as compared to a bolt on neck where there is a thick layer of finish inside the neck slot- yuck!
Halfway into this and I'm already drawing conclusions, (it's one of my flaws) ... basically, force as much vibration into the string between the nut and bridge as possible. Anything that can help the string move freely, AND force, or direct vibration back into the string without ejecting it elsewhere. Your fingers as well can dampen the sustain, such things as keeping your finger as steady as possible with as little contact as possible, rolling the finger even slightly into the note could drown it right? Imagine holding a Phillips head screwdriver straight onto the string over the nut, plucking the string. Some vibration will go past the screwdriver...would it be proper to say that if you dampen the area beyond the fret, would that take away vibration between the nut and bridge, or help hold the vibration, contain it within, better. I'm an archer so this analogy kinda goes hand in hand with this if I'm thinking of it right. Imagine the string on a recurve bow, when you draw back and release, shockwaves run through the string, into the bow, and along its length until it reaches your hand at the grip...and then continues through your hand, arm, etc. By putting rubber dampeners on the bow body between the string and grip on each end, it absorbs the shock at your hand... (? forcing the vibrations to travel back into the string?), and at the absorption point. (? or would dampening kill it...absorb/dampen the vibration at the absorption point. All this begs to question the viability of tone wood theories as well. It almost seems like dense woods would help to carry vibrations away from the strings, hence killing sustain, however forcing vibration through the wood, increasing volume and tone (subjectively). Sorry, I'm thinking way too much into this, which is why I thank you for this video... and all your other technical videos as well. Keep up the good work.
Dont you expect me to read all that
Interesting indeed. I was thinking about this as well and came to another conclusion. When you fret a note, your finger's ''meat'' would absorb close to no vibration as the string is actually resting on the fret which bring us back to the former explanation in the video regarding everything sitting beyond the bridge and the nut having little to no effect on sustain. This said, proper fingering would be mandatory cse if you wouldn 't fret a note correctly, your finger flesh could Indeed be dampening the string vibration. Am I wrong here? Finally, I think sustain and tone much come down to the player himself.
I did archery too and little guitar building and many mods.
Had similar thoughts about the analogy to bow dampeners. I intend to test the effect of weight on the neck pocket. More weight should change the way how the guitar "bow" (body, neck, headstock) reacts to vibration. Adding a rubber dampener outside the neck heel kills sustain for sure. But how about weighty brass or steel plates? Will it slow down vibration and sucking the high frequencies making the guitar sound fuller and warmer but prolonging the sustain too? Or will it do sound wise the same but robbing sustain? We'll see... 🤷🏻
I also think a angled headstock acts similar to the bow tips of a recurve turkish bow. Giving more punch to the sound milliseconds after plucking. More weight= stronger attack but not necessarily a faster attack...
The same archery bow sounds different with different brace heights. That's why I think the Les Paul sounds so different to others, mostly because of the elevated bridge (beside shorter scale length and overall shape and construction).
Me too: too much thinking! Should better practice more😅
Great informations! What do you think about alnico 5s like texas specials? Do they have good sustain? I tried them from my friends strat. It was american deluxe or something like that. modern bridge and stuff. And really like the sustain and the pickups. I have custom shop 60s style vintage strat. Do you think if a drop texas specials do i get similar tone and sustain?
String length behind the saddles, like on a Jazzmaster or Jaguar, happen to decrease sustain, because of that extra mass of strings also vibrating and losing energy. And what about Fender Bullet strings, do they add sustain when used on a Strat type guitar, because of the closer contact to the trem block?
Yes! Want to try those, seen multiple people say they live the bullets, they also have a unique tone quality. Subtle but it’s there.
aclara y derriba muchos mitos . gracias
I do repair work on the side, and think you should stop gluing in the frets because it's bad for my business. :D
Joke aside, I see lots of lifted frets, it's the second thing I check after relief if there's fret buzz.
Aiming for fret contact in the bottom of the slot sounds very risky to me, because it has to reference the fretboard surface to be level with the other frets. I always run a saw down the slots to ensure that there's enough room when I replace them. I then crown them slightly rounder than the board radius, hammer and glue them in. I've never had a single recall.
😁😁
Thanks Chris for sharing. I’m at my first attempts to improve the nut on my non Floyd Rose guitars. Think it’s taking two or three attempts to try and error for myself to get all the details right.
I was definitely on the wrong way on my first try and cut the slots way too deep. I should have been sanding down the bottom of the nut first and go from there 🙄
Maybe I’ll go for sanding the top now for less contact area on this one before replacing the whole thing again 😂
As long as it’s progressing it’s fine right?
Thank you very much for this very useful video and clear explanations. I have been thinking about the "minimum contact with the nut" issue - does it mean that locking nuts (where the strings are hardly pressed from both sides) provide less sustain than non-locking nuts?
The difference between a locking nut and a slotted bone nut is that the string is free to move back and forth, up and down, and side to side in the bone nut's slots while the strings in a locking nut can't move at all. If the slots in a bone nut are not cut properly and/or the string's break angle to the tuners is wrong, this movement can rob the string of sustain. With a locking nut, the strings can't move within the nut, so their vibrations are kept within the scale length where they can be detected by the pickups. In theory, a locking nut would be better for sustain, however, a bone nut with the slots cut correctly combined with the proper string break angle to the tuners can be just as good.
@@HighlineGuitars It is clear to me now. Thank you very much!
While I'm not arguing what does and doesn't make a difference in the guitars tone. We'll leave that for others to discus, often economics plays as big or bigger a role in guitar construction. Just as an example, I know that Gibson necks use a lot more wood in their construction than Fender because of the headstock angle.
I understand that a lot of Gibson's decisions, materials, different geometries of their designs, brand of components, and construction are marketing based. It's what their customers insist on. So, I'm not trying to champion them or anything.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but it is quite unclear to me why the amount of contact between a string and the terminating surface (nut, fret, saddle) is a major factor in sustain, and if it is a factor why less contact is better and not worse. You've said that it impacts absorption of string vibration energy into the body, but has that theory been tested? If anything I'd expect that too little contact at the nut will cause more vibrations to be transferred to the section of the string behind the nut, which can result in noticeable noise when playing with distortion (a common problem on most guitars). If you think about it, the place where a string has a lot contact is at the tuner. In fact it's much more than you could ever have at the nut no matter how it's cut, or at the frets no matter how they are crowned. Especially if it's a non-locking tuner, you can easily have a couple of inches of the string tightly wrapped around the tuner post. So imagine a string suspended between two tuners. If your theory is correct, you should be able to demonstrate that fewer wraps around the post results in a measurable improvement in sustain. Personally, I'm skeptical about this.
Sustain on a solid body electric guitar is determined by how long the string vibrates over the pickups. Anything that touches the string between and including the nut and bridge saddles can kill sustain. What happens past the nut or the bridge has almost no impact on sustain. Acoustic guitars are another matter.
So if i am having sustain issues then perhaps i should take my guitar to a luthier?
Thanks for the info! I’m wondering what your opinion is regarding trem blocks. I know you mentioned that beyond the saddle doesn’t matter as much but there are different options for trem block metals such as steel, brass, titanium, pot metal, etc. . Do you feel that these affect sustain or would they more affect tone? Thanks!
There is always great promise from the suppliers of exotic term blocks, but the reality is usually disappointing.
@@HighlineGuitars what type of trem blocks do you use?
@@mattrorke7536 whatever comes with the bridge.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Informative as usual!
Speaking of the nut and just a bit off topic, I've seen folks using a "compensated" nut.
What's the purpose of that since intonation is performed at the bridge?
Bridge intonation is about 60% of the whole story. A compensated nut will improve intonation even more (if done correctly), but you still have the frets to deal with and they are in a fixed position. That's why the so called True Temperament frets are a thing. In the end, you have to ask yourself, "Is this really important to me?" For most it isn't. For some, precise intonation is necessary to avoid a trip to the rubber room.
@@HighlineGuitars coming from a 3 generational wood craftsman with an OCD cherry on top, I applaud the "rubber room" comment.
@@HighlineGuitars I guess I just don't get it...Point-A to Point-B = N regardless if it's adj. at the nut or the bridge, compensation = simply moving the centroid within the segment and changing the scale length for that particular segment...seems like the adjustable saddle would accomplish the same thing if it was within the range of adjustment of the bridge, obviously I'm missing 40% of something, which seems like quite a large error?
So the only sonic difference is where that centroid fell relative to pick-ups?
Anyway sorry for derailing the discussion
@@svgs650r intonated correctly at the 12th fret, yes? But it will be slightly out at most other frets by varying and different degrees on each string, unless you're using wiggly true temperament frets. Have a close look at a TT neck - it's mind boggling how the size and position of each fret changes for each string if you truly want precision. Think of that TT pattern as the map of errors. A conventional neck is a compromise for simplicity. A true temperament neck is the no-compromise complexity. A compensated nut is a halfway house trying to redistribute the amount and position of those small errors more equally along the neck by adjusting from both ends.
There's a loooooong description on the earvana website about their compensated nut and why/how it works, with way more factors than I'd even imagined or care about. It makes my head hurt, lol.
Thanks for the reply If only I hadn’t been around racing motorcycles and loud music for decades my barely macro-tonal ears could appreciate micro-tonal perfection
I have a question about titanium string locks for use in Floyd Rose bridge saddles. Many believe that they increase sustain - I assume because they are harder than the stock string locks - but my brain tells me that, because the saddles that the locks sit in remain zink alloy or whatever, any benefit would be lost as the saddles would just absorb any vibration that was formerly absorbed by the old string locks. What does anyone think? Worth a go or a waste of £40-50?
Waste of money. I know because I tried them.
It is better to upgrade by replacing this bridge with one that already includes steel saddles. OFR, schaller, gotoh have steel saddles and the most important benefit of this material is the strength of the threads. Only in the cheapest licensed floyd bridges saddles are made of zinc, ZnAl or similar crap. Pure titanium is not very strong. Specialized titanium alloys can be very strong but also not to the extent that some people think, and at the same time they are much lighter than steel, which makes their superiority in terms of increasing sustain very questionable.
Thank you very much! But what is the best glue for installing frets. 👍
CA glue.
@@HighlineGuitars Oh, I see -
cyanoacrylate superglue of medium viscosity, suitable for gluing materials that require more gap filling.
Thanks! 👍
But string-through vs top loader bridges do have a tonal difference. Top loader bridges lose a good amount of upper harmonics (treble) which can make the guitar sound plastic-y.
Max Solo had made a comparison video.
Believe what you want.
@@HighlineGuitars It's not a matter of belief. The difference is measurable if you run the audio through a spectrum analyzer, and the reason why it happens is still supported by what you said in the video.
A top loader bridge due to its construction is more susceptible to parasitic resonance.
@@ErebosGR Who cares. Nobody has a spectrum analyzer in their head. Don’t waste time on minutiae. Focus on the factors that actually make a big impact.
@@HighlineGuitars Obviously, he cares? And I think not only him, but many of us, guitar players and builders care about that stuff.
IMHO the nut only has an effect on open chords and notes. I for one mainly play bar chords, power chords and fretted notes, so I doubt the nut will have much effect, as my left hand pretty much dampens any vibrations behind the fret.
I do not agree.
You can try this: put a hairtie behind your fretting hand or before the nut, and one behind the nut.
Now compare the single fretted notes and chords with and without the extra dampening. You will notice a slight loss of overtones and a tiny bit of sustain. The string bits behind the fretting hand and behind the nut are vibrating if not extra dampened, and feed back into the fretted string parts, giving them also more frequency content. Headstock vibration comes from the strings and neck directly and via the guitar body. This induces the most part of string vibration behind the fretting hand. The vibrating headstock feeds back into the body and so into the ongoing vibration of the fretted strings. Goes full circle. There is also sympathetic ring of the unplayed strings feeding into the neck, headstock and body .
I just wonder how this myth of nothing happens behind the fretted notes could survive over 50 years till today. I checked as a guitar greenhorn 3 years after starting, and used my ears. Before those 3 years my ears were not sensitive enough...
There is a lot going on behind the fretted frets and past the nut. 😊
To dampen everything behind your fretting hand, your hand must be as big to cover the whole headstock.😅😊
Cheers🤘
@@lone-wolf-1 There is a lot going on behind the fretting hand, otherwise headstock tuners wouldn't work. However all of it is coming from the main vibrating part of the string between the fret and the bridge. Not from the strings behind the fretting hand. They are totally out of tune with the fretted note and certainly wouldnt add desirable overtones or timbre to the fretted note. Cheers!
@@andywason3414
The little string bits behind the nut and bridge do indeed feed back into the sound of the strings between them. You also don't want that bits being in tune, because it would diminish sustain. Wolf tones or dead notes appear when some part of the guitar vibrates at the same frequency as that specific note. So, those string bits being out of tune actually helps for sustain.
In fact you want the parts on a guitar to be relative resonant, but slightly off in frequency and time. Otherwise an instrument would sound poor.
The amplitude of overtones from them string bits are also minuscule, but still have their contribution.
I can tell that because I tested/noticed it. With hairties before and behind the nut, and after swapping the saddles of a TOM bridge with roller saddles. All of a sudden, behind the roller saddles there was a lot more vibration going on and the influence of the tail piece was coming into play. I got longer sustain and more overtones colouring pleasantly the sound .
Cheers! 🤘
@@lone-wolf-1 Good discussion! I have a few experiments in mind that I can hopefully get around to soon!
@@andywason3414
I'm curious about your experiments. What kind of?
Then again, about those string bits behind the nut ans the nut: general opinion is that if the nut is made out of metal (idealy same as the frets) the open strings will sound like the fretted ones. But that is just partially correct. After swapping a plastic nut on a Ibanez GIO (wich indeed dampened a lot of the high frequencies) with a nut out of steel, I noticed that the open strings now have more overtones than the fretted ones. I expected them to sound the same, after hearing, reading that so often. I thought about it, and found out that the culprits are the string bits full of high frequencies behind the nut. Behind the nut are missing some dampening fingers like the fretting ones. I first tried with my fingers and then put a medium soft foam strip under the strings right behind the nut. NOW the open strings sound exactly like the fretted ones!🙌
Interesting: on another guitar (LP type) with a self cast brass nut out of melted brass screws, the open and fretted strings sound right away the same. I suppose because brass is softer than steel, and similar to the fret alloy. 🤷🏻
Graphite nuts do a good job regarding this. Almost no noticeable difference.
And bone is pretty close, close enough to not complain. I feel that synthetic bone (never tried) is closer.
Thanks Chris for the great video once again! I‘ve got a bone (pun intended) about the nut increasing sustain though. It would seem logical to me that when not using open chords and playing lead at or above the first fret, that would put the nut out of the equation. Am I wrong with this theory?
No you’re not wrong, but why settle for a poorly cut nut? Also, how many notes and chords use open strings? Answer: a lot.
Behind the nut happens a lot vibration wise! Nothing behind the fretted notes is out of equation. Even if minor, but still hearable 😊
Nigel Tufnel would approve!
Just a question is there any impact of a floating bridge or a fixed bridge on sustain?
A fixed bridge or a blocked trem enhances sustain. Moving parts rob sustain. 😊
Hi! Thank you for this video!
In this context, how'd you "rate" the fender LSR roller nut?
Hey Chris, I thought that the neck pocket played a big role in a guitar's sustain, is this not the case?
Who said that?
@@HighlineGuitars I'm sure I've read multiple places that a tight neck pocket plays a big role in maintaining a guitar's sustain. Is this not so?
@@jasondamron1766 it is in an acoustic guitar.
Minimal contact at the nut when working with bone, ivory, tusk, graphite and so forth makes sense. What about locking nuts though, how would you say they effect sustain?
Because they are made of metal (usually plated brass) they have a very high mass which increases the potential for excellent sustain.
Hey Chris
This is Matt a new guitar maker.
I was wondering if you have ever done a video on body styles and copyrights?
If I make a guitar like a tele or Les Paul are there any copyrights I have to avoid? Like if I make it to spec and try to sell it?
Thanks
I have learned more from your channel than any other
I don't but Dylan at DylanTalksTone has an excellent one: th-cam.com/video/DW1IBEnie84/w-d-xo.html
@@HighlineGuitars cool thanks
I can tell you right now the Gibson lawsuits made that a no, you can’t get in trouble for using a type of guitar body. If you go to custom websites they have every style under the sun.
I think wood and neck and all is important when you want sustain from it when its unplugged...
Start by eliminating fret buzz. Then go to a good bridge.
I like the idea of using CA glue to connect the frets into the fret slots and make a solid connection between the two. If you later want to do a refret of these glued frets will you rip out the fret and a chunk of timber in the process thus making it impossible to refret again?
I work at the PRS factory and we superglue the frets down. If we need to do a re fret all you need to do is use a soldering iron and melt some solder onto the fret to heat it up and this destroys the glue. Then (while still heating the fret) you use your fret pullers and the fret comes right out. Just be careful not to heat it too long or the fretboard will get scorched
@@lifeofalex9199 how much glue do you use? A little dab, or enough to get squeeze out?
@@frodehau they use exactly enough not to glob out.
Does the nut play a role in sustain on fretted notes? Doesn't fretting a string take the nut out of the equation? Forgive me if you covered this and I missed it.
Yes, fretting takes the nut out of the equation except where open-string notes are part of a chord.
@@HighlineGuitars that's the assumption I've always had. Thanks for the reply
I also have a bad habit of asking the stuff all and all again. Just think yourself, it's so simple.
When you play a string and press on a fret, does the string vibration go to the nut or not? Simply not, at this point string vibration goes from the bridge to the fret you press.
I'm having sustain issues with my SG. From this I'm assuming they're prone due to the massive headstock
When you say “sustain issues,” do you mean too much sustain, or not enough?
You were talking about brass saddles giving better sustain, how about brass nuts? I always wondered if our frets are made of steel than shouldn't the nut give better sustain if it was steel or brass instead of bone?
Bone is easier to slot.
@@HighlineGuitars small price to pay for better tone and sustain, I think.
Yes, there is a comparison on TH-cam, brass nuts do give more sustain. And plastic nuts are the worst.
I'm interested in the bell brass saddles. I did a Google search and couldn't find any Fender style saddles. Do you know of a saddle that would work for these in that material?
You need to be specific about the type of saddle.
@@HighlineGuitars I thought I was. The FENDER STYLE saddles. The 6 individual Saddles that Fender uses on their bridge?
@@scottmartinezguitarandbass the vintage contour or the block style?
@@HighlineGuitars It doesn't matter. I'm just asking if there are ANY made of the Bell Brass? Let's say Block style. I know the vintage countour has those BAR SADDLES. But there's none that I can find in the block style, 6 individual saddles.
I found tons of block saddles in brass. Bear in mind the term “bell brass” is just a fancy way of describing regular brass where guitar parts are concerned.
Good, good, good, good vibrations….
How nuch sustain do we need? I mean most people don't hold a note longer than what? 1 second?
Some will argue that long sustain is an indication of top-shelf craftsmanship.
I live to play glam style stuff which practically requires all the sustain
How can you play blues without sustain? All the sustain, beautiful, bendable sustain, as much sustain as possible.
We need long sustain as a sign of unhindered and the less possible dampened string vibration. A freely vibrating string brings you frequency content and thus tone. 😊
For those complaining about no long sustain needed and 1 second is enough, I recommend trying this: replace nut and bridge with thick rubber till you achieve 1 sec sustain. Then play that guitar and ask again why we need sustain 😜
Another thing to take into consideration is why the nut bought that particular guitar.
Zero fret. Roller bridge.
👍
@3:29 Ha-ha!
“Hopefully it is an animal”. that’s what I think when I buy bone nuts from China.
Or maybe a political dissident? I can of had to laugh a little bit when he said that too.
That’s the joke
Your prove point doesn't make sense. Relating to why manufacturers do something is a failing point a priori. There could be a lot of reasons why some do something, you cannot just say that one does something for that reason just because you believe so.
What you could do is do tests and experiments.
That is logically an incorrect arhument.
Common sense not very new info.
This video like many of the others I make is for newbies.
sustain is overrated and useless