The Lie We All Believe About Sustain
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- When it comes to the never ending debate about tone wood, and its effect on a guitar's sound, sustain is almost always brought up as a sign of a great guitar. But in my mind I don't think a guitar's natural sustain is all that important, heres why.
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Rhett: "Sustain doesn't matter."
Also Rhett: Sustains a successful career in music, a healthy and vibrant youtube community, multiple adult friendships and a loving marriage at the same time.
😁 I see what you did there.
Hahah your username rings true, and it sustains for days.
heckin hypnocrite
Some sort of philosophical mathematics you just did there
Somewhere out there, Davie504 just uttered, "CHECKMATE!"
I actually recently had to do some work to get *less* sustain on my 335. Every note was just too bright and long lived--I wanted to get more of a woodier, thuddier sound with a faster decay and, with flatwound 11s, I got it. And I love how it sounds. I could see myself even switching to a wooden bridge, but I've got everything dialed in so tight with intonation and everything, it's pretty much perfect for me right now.
Rhett, I found a partscaster that blew my mind the way it vibrated and sounded. That feeling hasn't worn off & I play it as often as I can.
Don’t forget volume. Playing in front of a full stack up loud, even if clean will resonate the body and add tons of sustain. Add gain and it can be like sustainer pickup. The more the body resonates, the stronger the sustain gets and the more harmonic it gets as well.
I like it when it resonates not just the guitar body but MY whole body as well, but... now I'm older and the tinnitus is there in the background, plus stages are getting super quiet these days (except for drummers who are never quiet) I can't enjoy stupidly wonderful loud amps the way I could way back in my youth. Kinda miss that but also need my ears to keep working - sucks.
@@martin-1965 Thankfully many clubs that have metal bands play still let you get away with a full stack. I’m 48 and thankfully I learned early on to get the largest practice space possible and never set up near the drummer those cymbals are what kill your hearing and my ears are pretty decent still.
@@louderthangod Yeah it was the hihats and cymbals that took out the frequencies in the right ear in my case, which was the side facing the drummer. But back in the 80s and 90s we didn't know or more to the point, didn't care. Sadly my singer from back then was a maniac and he's ended up almost completely deaf so I'll consider a light whistling noise in my ears as a warning shot in comparison. Still miss playing that loud though :)
that is feedback, not sustain
Feedback is when a systems input picks up it's own out output. Ie the guitars pickup picks up the speaker. He is talking about the strings, wood, etc actually vibrating in response to the volume. That is a separate thing and a definite contributing factor to actual sustain.
"Instruments are not just tools for making sound. They are more so designed for the instrumentalist to interactive with." Fantastic way to define the purpose of an instrument. I'm primarily a bass player and my custom shop Fender P bass sounds and looks fantastic, but feels terrible. The feel is opposite of what I hear and therefore uninspiring. Meanwhile my Fender American Elite Jazz sounds amazing, but also feels great and is a match between what I feel and what I hear. Great topic of discussion!
watch mojo shop guitar ,and learn how to fix that bass
There's a video interview with Stephen Stills & Neil Young from ages ago in which the interviewer expressed astonishment at their learning curve relative to their second album differing so greatly from their first. What would you say was the most important thing you had learned, he asked? They answered simultaneously with one word: "Compression!"
Want to see this!
That's awesome. I love what compression and EQ alone (and reverb of course) do to a clean guitar sound, it's like it makes the guitar sound "more natural" than natural, if that's possible.
I was thinking for sure when that sound started, “oh, this is the plus pedal.” Was right. Very nice
A thing worth mentioning is how the current aggressive use of noise gates is a sure fire sustain killer. I find this to be the case on most modelers... a majority of the stock patches have such aggressive noise gating on them that it kills off the beautiful tails of most notes. Turning those blocks off and doing nothing else will give you miles of sustain! Or at least turn down the sensitivity so you can hold a longer note. After that... every guitar has a volume knob, btw... just sayin.
Regarding resonance, I had an eye opening experience years ago with Bass. I had a cheap 70's Epiphone Newport for my first bass (the ET-288N, an entry level import, not one of the sought after 60's Newports), and I never really thought about resonance since it was my first bass. I just thought mine was typical of how basses are in general. But then I bought a modern Schecter thinking it would be a big upgrade. It arrived and one of the first things I noticed about it was if I played it unplugged, I couldn't hear anything. I literally had to stick my ear right over the strings to hear them and there was barely a whisper of sound coming off them. Then plugged in, I found it didn't have nearly the the amount of rich, deep bass and mids as my other one, even though it had an *active EQ*! That was what really got me - active EQ, and even cranking the bass knob, it couldn't compete with my old passive Epiphone. I played a couple of shows with it because it was pretty, but then sold it to a co-worker without a second thought or any regrets.
Amen! It all has an impact, but it’s the player.
How you feel playing a tone will only inspire as long as you don’t start comparing yourself to others.
This is a really important point. There are so many sounds and vibrations the player is aware of that the listener is not, but that does not mean those sounds and vibrations aren’t important. They are important because they inform the player’s playing and facilitate inspiration.
Hey love your videos! I would say that a lot of folks use "lack of sustain" as a way of communicating not so well made instruments. I remember the first electric guitar I ever had. It had a dead spot at the 11th fret - no sustain. Literally like half a second. I have no clue why. It didn't matter if I put on compression or cranked the gain. To me and my fellow guitarists, that guitar had a "sustain issue".
Sounds like it had a fret sticking up slightly that was deadening the sound.
In my opinion a good electric guitar needs to have some decent sustain. I like when I (and not the guitar) get to decide when to end a note. Adding drive or compression can be limiting, because it raises the noise floor and decreases dynamics.
Rhett, this is such a good video. The guitar is a conduit for the player to get “their sound” across to the listener. This is why so many different players love so many different types of guitars, amps, pedals, pickups etc. the true value of a guitar is in how it makes the player feel. As you say, “if you think it sounds good, then it is good”.
Love this video! Don't fantasize and debate about dream gear's sustain, start playing what you have and figure it out for yourself!
Well explained rhett !! Back in the "tonewood" days .. i always felt it was the sum of ALL the parts. Even today peaple will STILL argue basswood is crap ... but meanwhile for decades Ibanez has put out high end guitars with bodies totally made of basswood ... and they never sound bad or have bad sustain or resonance.
I see it as: wood does change tone. You can watch an A/B comparison with people swapping out the neck or body but all the same everything else, there is a difference. But it's not a big difference. If you don't have the direct comparison you'd hardly notice. But a bunch of other factors work the same way, this or that part also makes a little bit of a difference, and if you design the whole instrument so all those little differences are all pulling the tone the same way, it'll add up to a difference that matters.
Actually there's many types of basswood and some are expensive, not all basswoods are cheap
People who think basswood is crap simply don't know enough about why basswood is actually a good tonewood-because it is stiff and light, so it is resonant. It's also a nice wood for making objects, because it has very consistent, tight grain and machines smoothly. However, bassword is also relatively soft, so it is easy to damage.
Ibanez? Try John Suhr. Try EVH. Music Man. All use Basswood on expensive instruments, and have for a long time.
There is only one thing I can say about sustain: when is the guitar that has a lot of sustain is better because creating it with compression and overdrive adds noise. My LP has the most sustain out of all my guitars, and I tend to play differently on it because of that feature
and this is why the anology in video is pure stupidity..
The feedback that the instrument gives the performer definitely affects the performance. Also, if you have the choice between instrument derived sustain and electronic sustain, I prefer to start at the beginning. Of course, it depends what you're going for. But it's the same in recording. Move the mic or change the mic before you equalize.
Wow, phenomenal summation of guitar construction and how it effects the player. I really appreciate your pragmatic approach.
Hey Rhett, your videos are the best! There's no fancy video editing, no bullshit. Relevant issues, great information for guitarists of all levels, and I can tell you are a real humble guy. You want to give back. I've learned so much from you. Thank you. Vin
So..one of the things that show that a guitar body, neck, etc does indeed make a difference in tone.
Models of Gibson's L5's, es175's, es 335's (& variants), Les Paul models, and MANY other guitars (although these may have similar aftermarket fru-fru pickups) use '57 Classic & '57 Classic Plus in Neck & Bridge respectively. (MAYBE different tone caps, but that doesn't matter wide open). They sound vastly different, which clearly demonstrates that the construction & woods DO in fact make a difference in tone.
And yes, I do agree that the feel of vibrations definitely give a positive feedback to the player.
Thanks for the great videos, Rhett!!
Oh I loved your explanation of "resonance". Thats exactly what I am thinking about my '68 SG Special.
Well done Rhett! That really needed to be said 👍. There’s too much snobbery about this as is.
When this video first started who else was ready to cancel their subscription to this channel when he was trying to claim that was natural sustain!! Lol then he showed that pedal & i thought thank god, Rhett hasn't lost his mind!
Oh Rhett, you were so close to making my point! Tone comes from the inspiration, and inspiration comes, largely from the way the guitar feels. A good sustain, in my opinion, is less about how long the note rings, and more about how strong and healthy the note jumps off of the guitar. A guitar with great sustain is letting the notes ring out stronger and with a more natural decay. If i play a bit on any guitar, then hand that same guitar to Stevie Ray, Chris Buck, or to you, it will sound different. Before the pickups detect anything, the strings need to vibrate. Every guitar lets the strings vibrate differently, so the tones frequency may come from the pickups and amp, but the tones charecter comes from the way the guitar feels and rings. I use the same strings on all of my guitars and, unplugged, they all sound different.if it was all a trick of strings and magnets alone, then unplugged with identical strings, they would all just be the same!
How strong and healthy the note jumps off the guitar. Perfect way to put that. 👍🏻
Radius the pickups, puts the strings in the same part of the magnetic field, for even magnetic pull. Also all notes must play perfectly in tune, for this to happen. learn more at mojo shop guitar on youtube.
You're close. Tone comes from inspiration, which comes from perspiration which comes from precipitation that derives from evaporation which comes from radiation which comes from the sun which comes from helium which comes from hydrogen which comes from the big bang. So all you need to get good tone is a big bang and that's why I use diamond picks.
Sustain is very cool for compositions I like to play and think up, so this is quite an interesting analysis as always man. Cheers!
My favorite guitars have also been the relatively lightweight, resonant, and loud when unplugged types. My Gibson Gothic Flying V, Billy Corgan Signature Strat, and my newly acquired Squier Classic Vibe 50s Telecaster come to mind.
That intro got me. Well done.
You make great points here. Cheers from another 65 sg junior owner.
My sister has two Larivee acoustics from the late 80’s that were built by Jean himself, and had the inlay work (it’s really art, no question) done by his wife. They’re visually stunning, but also great sounding instruments. She has said many times that she is lucky to call him a friend, and humbled that he gave her the opportunity to have guitars she only dreamed of. There is something special about playing what is essentially a tangible part of someone’s life’s work and passion.
Larivee are some of the most vocal acoustics I have ever played. Made the mistake of not getting one in the 1990s but the impression it left on me is obliviously unforgettable.
Interesting topic. Two points mentioning. first of all: sustain is the opposite of resonance. The more something (the wood) resonates, the more it sucks out energy from the vibrating string. Thats why acoustic guitars are loud, but don't have that much sustain: the string has to move the resonant guitar body and translates it's energy into the wood. On the opposite: the most sustain you probably will get out of a string mounted on a big, heavy body of concrete or steel. As the body is so heavy and stiff, it wont take any energy out of the string, so the string can vibrate with the least dampening.
In my opinion a great electric guitar is always a compromise between resonance and sustain. As Rhett says: we like to feel resonance and if it feels good, we will sound better.
My second point: the more resonance a guitar has, the more character the wood and the construction of the guitar adds to the strings vibration. That's also something guitar players like.
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!
Hey Rhett: Bass & Guitar player here 44 years experience, with 33 in Electronics and Acoustics. Where Resonance is tricky is that nearly everything about an instrument acts like a complex Filter, drawing energy from the Strings (and to an extent, returning it to them). On a really nice instrument, the Evolving Harmonic Envelopes are somewhat independent, yet "even" enough that no Pitches are made "dead" or "hot" by too much absorption. You can hear it most easily in "the Talk Tones", in the Midrange of the Spectra - they will evolve over time in a complex way (which becomes more inviting to the ear). Ever wonder why Synths (especially older ones with extensive Modulation capabilities) tend to sound boring Spectrally? The answer, IMHO, is less perceivable Harmonic Evolution.
Fantastic video. The subject matter is one thing, but how you were able to rip through the majority of it without a prompter or a million takes speaks volumes on how far you've come in this YT game. Intelligent, well-articulated content motivates the viewer's intellect and , I believe, has longer lasting beneficial impact on the channel than regurgitating trending content ad nuseaum. Wurdz is hard. Well done, Rhett, loved this one!
Rhett has tremendous on-camera presence and a radio DJ voice.
You make a great point about the way a guitar vibrates and feels while playing being important, I had a guitar that really resonated and I found it so distracting I had to get rid of it even though I loved the way it sounded. I took it back down to the shop I got it from and traded it back in for another identical guitar that didn't resonate the same way while being played.
Both guitars were 1997 BC rich Warlocks, both were brand new, and both were set up by the same man to my specifications, Both sounded identical, but one had a tactile resonance that I found distracting and the other didn't.
My go to test on a new guitar it to hold the body up to my ear and play an big open E chord and let it ring out.
That’s a quick test that gives a pretty good sign of whether I will like it or not.
A guitar that has high resonance (that doesn’t absorb sound) will allow the strings to oscillate longer. The longer the stings vibrate, the longer the magnet field in the pickup causes induction by the strings, the longer the natural sustain. So even though the pickup only mimics the acoustic sound of the guitar. The wood’s ability to resonate or absorb sounds has a direct effect on playability and what you hear coming out of the amp.
But isn’t that sustain having to do with the feedback of the speaker too?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
No.
It's the result of utilising an effect pedal
I know but you can make that with the feed back of the speaker, I’ve done it before with loud volume with minimal gain
If you are not using it for leads that call for sustain it don't matter.
I have the analogman rangemaster clone, beano boost, it will make any guitar sustain forever and it's a lot cheaper than a novo but a novo is very nice
100%, I feel like pleasing feedback is actually what most guitarists think of when they think of great examples of 'sustain' in music
@@jakestewartmusic yea it’s a more “harmonious” feedback since it’s actually feedbacking a higher interval than the “open” strings if you just leave it feedback, they harmonize i think that’s what makes it different
I like what you said at the end; there is too many people bashing others for buying certain brands, because they cannot afford the big names. Others bashing people for buying branded guitars and not fully 100% hand made and buying a useless piece of plastic made by a machine, according to them. Just spreading hate instead doing what they supposedly love, that is playing the guitar. Good video as always.
“Sustain doesn’t matter” me an acoustic player: 👁 👄 👁
Well said 👏 I’m shopping for a new main guitar now that I’m playing out every weekend, and the guitar I was gonna get had a huge price hike recently (heritage H535). But this video has inspired me to just go out and try a bunch of different ones, maybe even styles I never considered and just go with whatever feels right
Take your amp to play through and make a lot of noise
@@cnking27 Agreed, totally. When buying an electric guitar, hopefully your amp is small enough to go with you unless they have an exact Marshall stack there (lol)...If your hunting for an amp, ALWAYS use your guitar, not one from the store.
Don't buy a guitar. Buy your guitar.
@@mojacarflamenco6314 Dat's rite!
@@john564holloway I'm kind of going backwards with it, I've been playing through a crappy practice amp with a crappy Squier from 1998 for almost a year. I live in a super rural area so I'm planning to get a Katana delivered, without playing through it first, because I figure I can't go wrong with that and I get to mess around with a ton of tones that way...and then I'll drag it with me to find the right guitar. I can't imagine getting a guitar without playing it first.
I love your sneaky sense of humor man I cracked up in the first 10 seconds of this vid🤣
Great video. I am not sure if the professor addressed dampening and resonance. String vibration will be dampened by the body and neck (some frequencies more than others). The body and neck can also feed vibrations back into the strings. The resonant frequencies of the body and neck will add overtones and other vibrations back into the strings. So although it is the strings vibrating in the pickup's magnetic field that produces the signal - it is definite that the body and neck do take away and add to that signal - no question. That's why the other SG felt like a sponge - it had high vibration absorbtion (like a shock absorber on a car) and quickly took the music away.
I get into it a little bit. You can find my video here (this was my response to Rhett's original video) by searching "Refining Rhett Shull's Resonance Reasoning: Vibrations in Electric Guitars and the Sustain Paradox"
Considering how thick an electric guitar body compared with the thicknesses used in an acoustic guitar, I expect that the effect is mostly damping, with little if any coupled resonance going back into the strings in a constructive way. So to the extent that the body/neck effects tone on electric instruments, I suspect it's primarily a *subtractive* effect.
Haha, that intro!! I love that you are always able to keep an open mind Rhett. We guitar players all need to try to do that! I think also as an audience member at a live show the appearance of a guitar makes a big difference in how you hear it.
One of the pitfalls of lots of criticisms/videos is crapping all over an idea and leaving it at that. I love that most of your videos present an alternative concept to latch onto versus the misconception you're discussing. It reminds me of the "consider the following" segment from the Bill Nye videos I watched in school as a kid. Thanks for keeping up with the great content.
My wife has given me several guitars over the past decade including 2 for my birthday just recently. We are lucky men!
Agree totally on the "if the guitar makes you happy when you play it's a good guitar" they all have personalities as well. Some days I pick one over all the others. They are like old friends sometimes and you have to pay them a visit.
Just throwing this out there, but sustain does have an important relationship with noise. You can totally add sustain with compression, but you also bring up the noise floor of the signal overall. I have a Gretsch that, when I first got it, required a lot more compression to achieve the same sustain as my other guitars, and it resulted in a higher noise floor. Part of that is the pickups, the Bigsby, etc. All I know is when I changed the pickups out and got a Tru-Arc brass bridge on it, it was like a whole new instrument. Now it rings a good deal longer, which means I don't need as much compression, which means less noise.
Best video yet on this ongoing debate about what actually matters most when searching for tone. If the guitar doesn't inspire you create and enjoy music, however that may be. Mechanically or astetically, then move on. To tell anyone that "hey, this is the best, and screw the rest". Is non sensical. The best is where your at in the moment. Enjoy what you have and practice more.
I recall a well-known producer saying something like "the best microphone is the one that's closest/already hooked up when you're feeling inspired."
I 100% agree. My second acoustic was so resonant I felt my voice in it when I first held it, I played for about 30 seconds and knew I was taking it home. The whole feeling good equals sounding good upwards spiral that starts from feeling that resonance aswell as hearing it is on point, exactly how that instrument effects me. My current acoustic doesn't have that same connection to me.
Oh, yeah, acoustic and electric guitars are entirely different things. An acoustic guitar *must* resonate according to its principle of operation.
My acoustic guitar is so resonant that when I cough I can hear it vibrate! First time that happened in the middle of the night I thought we had a ghost
@@BanBanChi That's the sign of a good acoustic. It wants to couple with the air around it.
@@Lantertronics good to know. It's a 30 year old Takamine student model that I got at a second hand shop in Japan for less than $50!
@Lantertronics - Aaron Lanterman I never tried saying electric or acoustic are the same. That still doesn't change the fact some acoustics are more resonant than others but thanks for the information I suppose.
Nice discussion. I have found recently that The amp is also a big factor in sustain. about 6-10 dB below the "sweet spot" the tubes begin to compress the signal, effectively evening out the notes. The 'sweet spot' can be moved lower by using a Tube Screamer or a Soul Food type pedal. The Soul Food spot is a bit further toward clipping. Another big thing is to follow the lead of the shredders and pick lighter and turn up the amp to compensate. Hard picking gives a big transient at the beginning of the note and if the amp volume is set for that transient, your notes appear disconnected and actually have less sustain. I switched (after 50 years!) from a 1.52 mm pick to a Fender thin and its extended my sustain by not allowing me to overpack the beginning of the note. You never know! Keep up the great discussions and observations, Rhett!
Excellent points. I don't use pedals at all but letting the amp do they work and break up naturally while varying pick dynamics is satisfying and inspiring. You're bang on about picking too hard and killing a note. That frustrated me for years. Switched from .12s with an extra heavy pick in my teen years to .10s with a thin pick in my 40s. If only I had known back then...
We all develop differently. I use to play exclusively light picks for about 40 years but now play a V-pick big Fattie 5mm with a lighter attack strumming and soloing with better control of expression, and yes sustain. I use more compression now because of quieter stage volume requirements, direct to PA modeler use, and because my dynamics grew immensely with the use of thick pick.
I agree with your points of view in this video and would add the following-
One of the original ways to create sustain in an electric guitar is finger vibrato. Get good at it and you'll have sustain and tone for days.
Also, the workbench guitar "experiment" was just a revisit to the century old Southern Diddley Bow- 2 nails on the side of a barn with wire pulled tight between them and a bottle or knife to create sounds.
Three thoughts:
1.) You can see it kinda "backwards". How much does the construction of the guitar "take away" from the possible optimum string vibration?
2.) More pickups, more - or stronger - magnets, less distance to the strings etc. reduce sustain!
3.) Pure volume, coming out of speakers, stimulating string vibration, is one of the biggest influences on sustain!
This adds to natural or artificial compression, sag and distortion.
Great stage-experienced guitarists ride on the "knife edge" and play the fine line between endless sustain and controlled - or even chaotic - string feedback by tweaking tone and volume control of the guitar as well as changing the guitars distance and position to the speakers.
The more a bedroom guitar player or even headphone guitar player you are, the more you are in need for artificial support by various pedals.
Rhett, you ain't preaching...this is like zen and the art of electric guitar, anyone who is lucky enough to explore this instrument as a music making tool has to get you. So the start of the video had me freaking out......great stuff even though you were probably thinking oh just making the point of what wa to come, please tell me what that pedal was? Keep preaching! Thanks for this...........really.
Sustain is all about technique. And volume, too. Gary Moore is a good example. Squeeze the life out of the notes.
Squeezing it from an original 59 LP standard through cranked tube amp makes it even better. Gary was one of the best ever though
@Burnt Gerbil: Have you seen the Guitarist magazine interview with GM in which he talks about how to go about choosing a good guitar? He mentions that unplugged, a guitar should be loud and have sustain (i.e. when you hold a note and add vibrato it doesn’t die on you or wilt away too quickly). Yes, the volume that a player like him used live will certainly help with feedback, etc. but I think there is something to be said for a guitar sounding good acoustically. Having to hammer away at it with the picking hand in an attempt to get it to sing isn’t really the way to go.
Love the look of your SG Junior, especially its perfectly formed pickguard
This is a great video/overall point. I would have mentioned a 4th type of sustain - when the guitar amp/speaker sound is reintroduced to the guitar's pickup(s).
I think Rhett should do a whole video on feedback through speakers. That Hendrix-style feedback is kind of its own instrument.
Placebo effect works in medicine, food, and obviously music. It’s amazing what we think leads to what we perceive.
Thanks for this video. I ran one of your SG videos thru my sound system, that thing SINGS. I am sure youtube compresses the signal , even so .....magic. Big up.
After watching this video, Rhett, I understand now what ‘sustain’ really means. The original note on the guitar is no different, but it’s VOLUME can be SUSTAINED for a longer duration of the held note (or notes in the case of a held chord)..
For electric instruments, the sound and tone is mostly coming from the speaker(s) used. That’s where the signal is converted into actual sound.
I don’t disagree that’s important, but it’s just one more variable.
Ultimately we could argue that you or your mic position to the speaker is even more important. Proximity effect and phasing can completely change how sound is translated. And are we talking recordings or live? Because in recording, what mic I choose or going DI will have a huge impact. And there’s a big difference between how we interface with a PA and how we interface with earbuds or car speakers.
If it’s going through a soundboard or a DAW, has it been EQed?
Just as important, how’s the listeners hearing? A crowd of 65+ are going to hear a very different tone than a crowd of teenagers.
These rabbit holes go DEEP, which I why I appreciate when Rhett always brings it back to “if it sounds good, then it is good.”
@@UXBen microphone position is indeed important, right up there with the speakers. You’ve made a few great points.
@@UXBen Indeed, it's more than the sum of its parts. (Microphone choice is huge too. And then you can play games of using multiple microphones... the possibilities are endless).
Thanks Rhett, you’ve made me feel better in the knowledge that my guitar is merely an extension of the music that is inside of me and with all the components needed to give the electric guitar my voice through my fingers! 🤘🏻
Great video Rhett. Your point about resonance is spot on. Some guitars, for lack of a better term, actually feel alive when they are played. The same model sitting next to may not. The same goes for tube amplifiers. The comfortability factor is also huge and an element people often overlook and should be the primary consideration for new guitarists. A $3000.00 Les Paul that hangs on the wall because it's 12 lbs of back ache is not a great guitar. It's wall art. These factors often manifest subliminally. I have a collection of guitars to pick off the wall to play including Strats, Jaguar, Surfcasters, Les Paul copy, Schecter, Jacksons etc but one day I noticed that the guitar I always picked off the wall to play, especially during free time creative noodling, was a custom 3/4 size semi acoustic Surfcaster. When I analyzed why it became clear it was because it was the most comfortable to play in any position. It also sang under the fingers, but so did most of the rest also.
I disagree. Good fret work, well functioning saddles and nut, and proper setup all matter (a lot) when it comes to sustain, and the bloom of a note. Every little zing or buzz is killing the energy of the string and interrupting the bloom of the note.
It's a myth. Of course a very badly adjusted guitar will not produce any good sound but sustain and tone don't come from the guitar material, nor paint or frets.
@@RenoLaringo Are you saying that Steel, brass and pot metal saddles all sound the same and have no effect on sustain or the bloom of the note? and that tiny super soft nickel frets sound exactly the same as big giant stainless steel frets? Contact points matter. What about a steel tele bridge plate? I've measured the change in inductance as I screw a pickup into the bridge plate and inductances changes tone and output
@@justinpaquette224 Yes, that is basically what I'm saying.... The timbre might slightly change regarding nut materials but that's about it. No human beeing could hear the difference anyway. Big frets or smaller ones don't make any difference whatsoever either. They make just contact on a point (frets are round so are the strings, there is no bigger contact surface depending on the fret sizes, just more surface for your fingers to pinch the string onto which can make you play out of tune more easily and more inertia on the bigger frets which in fact is actually detrimental to sustain). Also bigger frets make your guitar play out of tune the more they wear. The smaller the frets, the most accurate note pitch and sustain you get in the long run, given the frets are correctly settled, ask any serious luthier). That's the reason why you won't never find jumbo frets on classical instruments. Fret buzz is another story and can indeed kill sustain (as the neck-to-body type of fixings do) but that's part of normal guitar adjustments. So yes, I completely disagree on that. A simple experiment with any computer can confirm. I agree a good setup can make a huge difference vs a bad one, but it has little to nothing to do with fret sizes or saddle materials (or paint, varnish and guitar wood while we're at it). All the above don't change anything to the sound of an electric guitar. You could stretch your strings between two bricks and it would still sound exactly the same with the same pu's. If a spectrum analyzer and digital recorder cannot tell the difference, I highly doubt any (non-biased) human ears could. Been there, done that. Don't fall in that commercial trap anymore. We all did and it can be a costly bias. Regarding the change in inductance you measured, if it was significant, I would check the grounds wiring and contact points. You might have an issue there. In a normal situation, when your pu's are grounded correctly, there is no reason the inductance would drastically change (to the point of affecting tone and output) by only screwing them to a grounded metal part of your guitar, unless there would be some ground leak, a ground loop somewhere or if you happen to touch your strings or any metal part on your guitar while measuring. To get the most sustain, prefer a guitar with bolt-on neck (yes, Strats do have more sustain than LP's 😉 I'm not going to make me friends here lol), make sure everything is super tight at the bridge and the tuners and finally have your frets settled with the tightest fit possible which can only be achieved by a complete fret job at a good guitar shop. Hope this helps 🤘👍
I have a 1979 Ibanez Iceman ps10. Paul Stanley from KISS sold these even back then. It sustains forever before I ever plug it in. When I plug it in I don’t need alot of help from pedals at all. It sounds great!
Tone and sustain are two independent parameters.. bolt on and flat angle neck generate a distinctive tone and less sustain that set and angled necks! That what you manage signal (tone and sustain) with the preamp or post amp phases are an alternative doesn’t has nothing to do with the natural tendency of the instrument and the nature of their construction and the resonance itself!
Paul Reed Smith did a ted talk (at least i think it was a ted talk.... it was that sort of thing) Where he said something along the lines of "the electric guitar is a subtractive system" the point he was making is that, every part of a guitar subtracts energy from the vibrating string to a greater or lesser extent. The guitar builder's job is to use materials that subtract the least amount of energy from the string so you get out as close to what you put in.
Brett..! I’m working on a jobsite only 6 minutes from a Guitar Center.. Not my fave music store.. but now ya got me drooling for some gear… HAHAHA..!
And it’s payday..!!!
I have to respectfully disagree in this.
Sustain, while not being the „be all end all“ of a guitar‘s sound,
certainly is important. When I bend a note on one of my good
Les Pauls and let it ring there for a while, with better sustain I have
more time to vary and modulate my vibrato „by hand“, thus generating
more emotion out of the note. Also, it somewhat sounds more „impressive“
on the listener‘s side, if a note has noticeably more sustain. Furthermore,
with a Les Paul I can achieve such an effect without needing some additional
fancy electronics between the guitar and the amp.
However, another question would be whether it is possible for a guitar to have
a nice, rounded tone which just doesn‘t ring as long, but still sounds good. This
is actually also quite possible, in my opinion. For instance, I own a Flying V which,
at least in case of my V, doesn‘t sustain quite as long as a Les Paul, but the notes
you get out of this thing still sound amazing and the guitar is somewhat „lively“,
in a way.
Furthermore, in my experience as well, „sustain“ also has something to do with the player.
I.e., most instruments have a „sweet-spot“, some area on the neck where notes tend
to ring a bit longer than in others. That, combined with the way you hit the string, also
contributes to sustain, as well as tone quality.
Totaly agree with you!
@@Andreorsel thx!
Rhett's point towards the end, when he talks about reflectivity, hits the nail on the head. I call it responsiveness, but it's the same thing. When I do a thing, does the thing I'm doing it on respond?
This is true whether it's a guitar, a fly rod, or a car. It's also something that varies from person to person. I've played some great guitars that did nothing in my hands and guitars from unknown builders that were perfect for me. I'm a flamenco and classical guitarist, but the underlying truth about reflectivity/responsiveness holds true.
Great analysis! The “how it feels in your hand” is a real thing! Though it may have nothing to do with what’s coming out of the amp. I was talking with a professional mechanical re: hand tools and why someone would spend $350 on a simple set of wrenches that could be purchased for about $20. He explained that the premium tools just felt so much better in your hands. He then went on to explain that he was being paid by the bench rate, how many hours of labor a customer is paying for the job. With superior designed tools this meant he’s less likely to drop them and his hands were not as fatigued so he could conceivably get paid a 20 hour bench rate inside an 8 hour day. A great mechanic and great tools makes for a great performance!
Agreed. I hate fret buzz on an unplugged guitar. Even if you can’t hear it when it’s plugged in. Does my head in.
If the volume of the guitar is on 10, most of the sound is coming from the pickup. If the pickup is lowered to match more the volume of the body, like on 1 or 2 on the potentiometer controlling volume, and turn the amp up, the guitar will behave a bit more like an acoustic. Most modern pickups are hotter, so this effect is really more found on older pickup designs and some modern single coils. We were taught this in by John Marshall in Luthier School, so since we are talking about where sound comes from, I thought I would share his two cents. Thanks for an awesome video, as always.
When I graduated High School in 83, all I could afford was a Maya electric guitar, strat copy, but I couldn't afford an amplifier.
Cheap guitars were not good in the early 80s, but i loved that guitar. I played it without an amplifier, at first, because I couldn't afford an amp, but later, because I became accustomed to the sound of the guitar itself. To this day, I still enjoy the sound of a resonant electric guitar without an amplifier to get in the way. I do use amplifiers when necessary, but otherwise, I just love the sound of a good un-amplified electric guitar. I hope that makes sense.
Everytime you re making your point very well. You can use the words very well and giving lots of good information as well. Thats why im clicking on your videos even if the topic is not always what i search for . Congrats
There is a difference between sustain and feedback resonance.
"If it sounds good, it is good." I have always said this about music in general. If the music sounds good, The music is good. Love the video, and the SG.
Very happy to see this video Rhett. Its about what plays good and feels good in the hand. The wood does that for sure. It has almost zero bearing about what comes out the amp, but you combine good pickups/setup with a guitar that feels great in the hand, you've got a winner. It could be that $5,000 Gibson, or that $500 Epiphone with upgraded Gibson pickups. The tone out the amp will be the same, but it also needs to pair with how well it feels to play and vibrates with you. To the point of all this, the term "tone-wood" in this case is really false nomenclature. It should really be called "feel-wood" or "connection-wood" (I know those are stupid though) because the wood is simply the connective tissue between the player and the guitar, not the tone. And that connectivity is big, but is not a tone driver.
Again, very happy to see this video. Good stuff Rhett.
I like the term "feel-wood" -- and love the phrase "the wood is simply the connective tissue between the player and the guitar"
Rhett, I believe in your SG's sustain! Plug it in, turn it up, mute/dampen the strings and tap on the body. You will hear the knocking through the amp. Amplified resonance.
Copper wire wrapped around a magnet and powered by electricity not only responds to the metal strings vibrating above it, but it also functions (at least in part) as a microphone. Your guitars construction, resonance and its potential to sustain will be transmitted as part of the signal with vintage style pickups.
I'm with you in the sense of just play it and if you like it well that's that.. Simple... We live unfortunately in a world where it's more about consuming...
The construction of the guitar has a direct effect on the vibration of the string, thus effecting the string vibration present for the magnetic pick-up to convert into sound, try putting rubber underneath the bridge and nut to absorb the string vibration and you'll see the effect on the amount of vibration presented in front of the magnetic field of the pickup,
That's basically how sitars work. ;)
What you're describing is damping the energy at the endpoints of the vibration. If you could perfectly fix the endpoints so they don't move at all you could keep all the energy in the string and maximize sustain.
@@Lantertronics exactly, Thursday is why electric guitars built from stable hard wood with metal Bridge and hard bone nuts have such sustain, the instrument allows the string to vibrate because it doesn't dampen the vibration. Solid materials should enhance the string vibration whereas softer materials would absorb and kill the frequency like a soundproof room would.
@@Kipperbob What's funny is I've read many posts on forums where people say that lighter softer woods sustain more. ;)
@@Lantertronics some of the lighter woods may be very resonant instead of absorbant, I've built a couple of pine body's as replacement repairs for a couple of dude's who had their guitars smashed by psycho women, they had good unplugged sustain because even though its technically a softwood, well seasoned pine is very resonant, especially when it has absorbed adequate sealant so that it'll take a finish. It's not quite as dark in tone as mahogany due to the difference in the density of the wood, the first Telecasters were built with pine body's.
Nice exploration on the question of what makes a guitar good.
"It's resonant. It's loud unplugged. You can feel the guitar vibrating, no matter where you're holding it."
Yes! That's how I chose my Strat out of the dozen I played.
It just sounds great and like you said, it doesn't fight you, it helps you.
Gives you something extra to use. Like it's alive.
My nephew plays it on occasion. At first he kept checking his pocket.
Thought his phone was vibrating.
Nope. The guitar.
Honestly that guitar is so cool man, first time I saw you playing it in a vid I went right to their website but couldn’t find it :,( lol love the vids man
love this explanation about a player's affinity to the instrument. it's human. a lot of people saying that video proves tone is only on the pickups don't understand.
Thank you, Rhett! I've been a believer that the whole sustain thing doesn't matter for years now, but somehow guitar players are still debating this very thing. I've never played a single guitar in my life, cheap or expensive, that didn't sustain enough for me to do my thing while playing it.
The weird thing about sustain is that everyone tests it by just playing a clean chord / note and listening to how long is lasts, but how many songs do you know where a completely clean, uncompressed chord / note is played and held for dozens of seconds at a time? Testing sustain outside the context of a song and a mix is just completely irrelevant information
I liked Jim Lill's approach where he was fixed a time interval and then looked at what the amplitude was after that interval.
Well it should be noted that the pickups don't sense the movement of "the strings", but rather the movement of the "neck, nut, body, bridge & string" system. To explain it simply, the neck and strings act like a suspension bridge. Any movement on the strings affects the neck and any movement of the neck affects the strings. They're not separate, they're a system.
A simple way to prove this is screaming at the guitar's body. I did the following test anybody can reproduce. I connected a Fender Mustang Micro to my guitar, connected the Mustang to my cellphone via a USB cable and opened the voice note app and started recording. With the amp sim setting set on the Micro to a pretty high gain amp and at max volume I could successfully record my voice on the cellphone.
Why? Well I was producing an "earthquake" on the guitar body (if you'll allow me the expression). My voice made the body vibrate. These vibrations spread through the body and neck like a mini earthquake and made the string vibrate. Very much like how an earthquake can make a suspension bridge move. These string vibrations were in turn picked up by the pickups and converted into an electric signal. Proving that pickups do indeed detect movement of the body and neck. Not directly, but by the effect the neck and body has on the strings.
Now, to be thorough I had to discard the possibility that my voice was actually moving the strings. This is simple to test as well. The strings themselves have too small a cross section to be affected by the sound waves of one's voice. But interweaving a piece of aluminum foil that we can get from our kitchens greatly increases the cross section. The foil is now greatly affected by our voice and in turn moves strings. This is what the pickups detect. Because aluminum is not ferromagnetic and it's movement can't be picked up by the pickups, only the movement it imparts on the strings. This second test proved that my voice was not actually moving the strings, only affecting the body.
There's clearly mechanical coupling between the body/neck and strings in any *practical* electric electrical guitar. In an "ideal" electrical guitar, the endpoints of the string would remain perfectly fixed to keep the energy in the string. Although "ideal" things tend to be boring. ;)
I agree with your thoughts. To me an important part of why I pick a guitar is the kinesthetic experience when striking the strings. My favorite is a Fender Mahogany Blacktop Stratocaster HHH. The body resonates when I play it and I feel the Mahogany vibrate against me. As you say that feedback loop.
I always enjoy your thoughtful dialogue.
I thought the important part of the sustain chase is the natural sustain that a given guitar has.
You're 100% right that it's not important. Especially when most styles require some form of muting.
But when a guitar has true natural sustain and resonance it's something that you can feel. A lot of that is all about the set up and intonation. If your guitar is ringing true then it is in complete harmony.
Can't agree more, Rhett. Even a set neck vs a bolt-on neck can sustain more than the other. The whole body of my Fender Strat w/alder body and bolt-on neck vibrates twice as much as my Les Paul Classic. Both axes are worlds apart. IMO, when buying an electric guitar, play it acoustically first to feel the true 'spirit' of the guitar. To me, if it feels & sounds good unplugged, it'll feel & sound good plugged in.
Love that you use the SG for this video. They have that ring to them like no other guitar. At least any that I’ve played. If you want to see a crazy level of ‘the ring’ on a SG try using the elixir nanoweb extra long life strings in 10-46. They are pricey but whatever it’s the cost of a few cups of coffee and the difference is 👍. I started using them a few months back on a Std 61 and they just sound fantastic. I play that guitar a lot and they still look brand new. Same strings too.
Excellent wisdom is growing through new thought experience
Great video, Rhett. I completely agree with everything you said. I also agree with Aaron (I know Aaron, he's a good guy). However, I think one aspect may have been overlooked that I might be able to offer a unique perspective on as an electrical/software engineer and a guitarist. It's important to understand that engineers want to explain things "systemically", for lack of a better word. When an electrical engineer sees a guitar, they see a voltage source (pickup), resistors (potentiometers), filters (tone capacitors), switches, etc. In fact, an electric guitar can be reduced fairly simply to a basic schematic. However, what this approach completely ignores is the vibration of the guitar and how it impacts the relative instantaneous position of the string to the pickup. Because when you strum a chord or pick a note, not only does the string vibrate, but the guitar vibrates as well, which causes the pickup to vibrate underneath the string at the same time the string is vibrating. This results in a much more complex system with lots of variables to consider. The vibration of the pickup beneath the string is almost entirely dictated by things like the type of material the guitar is made from, its shape, the type of nut, bridge, saddles, tailpiece, tuners, and yes, possibly even its finish. I'll bet if you recorded yourself playing a chord normally, then clamped the guitar body to a heavy workbench (so the guitar couldn't vibrate freely) then strummed the same chord, it would sound completely different. I've never done this, but I know where I'd put my money. The bottom line is that I think you're both correct. The pickups, strings, and electronics are no doubt the primary factors in the tone of a guitar. But the materials and build quality also matter...probably more than most people think. But even if it's a small difference, small technical differences in music can translate to infinitely larger differences in the performance of a musician (and the perception of an audience).
I didn't think about the pickup itself vibrating but it makes sense. That might be part of why Eddie Van Halen had such a unique tone. I believe he screwed the pickup directly to the body with no springs.
@@mknow1 Yeah, that's an excellent point. I'm sure you're right.
Oh, hi Tom!
In case folks here don't know Tom, he's an amazing guitarist; I saw him play in Radio Iodine, although actually when I first saw them they were called 9 Days Wonder -- I still have a 9 Days Wonder shirt! -- and with Starnineteen (the band of the much-missed Pat Oldani).
@@Lantertronics Hi Aaron! I was pleasantly surprised to hear your name mentioned in a Rhett Shull video! I hope all is well with you and your family!
I agree all of the things you mention can have second-order effects, although perhaps in ways that are different than the way people think. With acoustics, it seems like the vibration you feel in the body is correlated with the sound wave coming out of the guitar and hence what you hear. With electrics, it seems like the vibration in the body you feel is energy that was removed from the string and hence now *not* picked up by the pickup. So it does effect the tone, but it's a subtractive effect. But as you note there can be a second-order effect because the reference frame of the pickup itself may be moving around with the body, perhaps in a slightly chaotic way depending on how the pickup is mounted. I have an acryonym I use with my students, "EEEE" -- on a guitar, Everything Effects Everything Else, it's a question of how much. I like to think of a threshold: is this effect, although present, less than the natural variation you get from the inability of a human to play a passage exactly the same way every time? If so, it's not worth fussing about too much.
I always argue this with myself as well....until I realize that I NEVER play a note that needs to resonate long enough for it to matter...
As someone who was classically trained, I really agree on how our perception of the instrument influences the way we play. I have experience how a piano would sound and feel totally different when moved to a different room and how that would make it feel easier or more difficult to play (therefore having a huge impact on my performance). Even when it was just tuned, the feeling of the keyboard would change. I realized that our perception of an instrument is a combination of tactile and auditory input when I experience how the keyboard on my digital piano would feel as a different instrument regarding key weight, depth and response depending on if I was listening through a wedge monitor, built in speakers or headphones, even though mechanically it was the exact same thing.
Rhett great video and I totally get what your saying about the vintage guitar being reflective. I recently had that same experience. Picked up a 335 Jim James and was a little upset that it didn’t give me that reflective feeling. It was almost too compressed. However a pickup height adjustment fixed that for me. Not I feel like it’s giving me back what I put in it
Great points made, Rhett!! Since I build electrics, I would say that all the elements that go into a guitar make the guitar what it is. I also agree with the points you made and the use of true science to back up your points. Thank you for this!!
Amazing video as always!
The conclusion is spot on and the most important thing here- yay!
However, the idea of sustain is not quite right. Sustain is an attribute of resonance. Resonance is sustain with a frequency specific element
The point that a note that sustains for 37 seconds is not musically relevant totally valid of course, however, acoustic sustain in an electric guitar is a measure of its resonance. The sound is able to continue because the body/neck/parts are not not inhibiting it!!
I have to point out as a man with a physics PHD, the string does not disrupt the magnetic field of the pickup. The pickup magnet polarizes the string and the vibration of the string causes a magnetic flux through the wire coils around the pickup. It’s a very common misconception that even Seth lover points out on multiple occasions in interviews.
Not that it changes anything you said or what the response video said. But it’s something worth spreading the word on
HERESY..!!!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sustain is = MOJO..! And Mojo is everything..!
And now that you’re talking about resonance..? YEAH..! My old Tbird bass is an instrument that I can actually feel the vibrations in my hands when I’m playing that old slab of mahogany..!!! It’s a beautiful thing..!👍🏼❤️
Professor Lanterman went over the fact that the neck of a guitar is vibrating along the strings when one plays the guitar. So wen played, the strings are vibrating, and the neck is vibrating. What happens is the parallel vibration of the neck is cancelling vibrating frequencies (or harmonics) in the strings.
Hence the guitar on its own matters, because it has an indirect and hopefully minor effect on dampening the harmonics your strings are producing anytime they're being played.