The amount of twist and compound curvature in the sheer clamps of classic boats like these is truly insane. I ran into this problem on my current build, a 1950s Riva Scioattolo. Ended up using your small square section technique that you demonstrated on the quarter scale Temptress. Massively time-consuming, but the only way it could work for me. This is just one of several tips I've picked up from your videos. Many thanks, Dan!
The Scioattolo is a nice little boat! Yes these classics do have some challenging shapes to form, part of what makes their topsides look soo nice though! I'm glad to hear the videos are giving you useful tips to use.
Great work . I’m volunteering on a recreation of a 30’ Unlimited hydroplane , The Miss Circus circus . We are about to build the inside surface f the airtrap that stretches the entire 30’ with a scarfed assembly of 1”” Birch and skinned with Aluminum on exterior . At 14’ wide , we are adding 5’ of sponson tips that have major curves like what you are facing . Our shop has 12, 30’ Raceboats so we are feeling queasy like you . We sometimes bandsaw those battons and cut long , then glued as assembled , clamps instead of screws if possible. As a boat racer , I like the feel of flexible, energy absorbing wood over the new composite materials that seem to fail catastrophically instead of showing a crack or leaking but still being useable . Cool to see a mix of new tools to help make the assembly quicker and with more consistency.
Now there is another challenge… the door frame will have to be removed in order to get her out, even then there will only be a few inches to spare 😖 that’s something to worry about another day when I get there 😁
Bloody hell mate, that's an awkward length of timber to weild around a busy shed. I understand the odd french word slipping from your lips. Very smart option to steam bending.
I'd be very interested in seeing a discussion between you and the designer of the boat at some point. There must be tons of interesting content potential there. I could think of 10 questions from the top of my head I'd be curious about.
Hmm, I might just be able to arrange that. I’m flying out to Michigan today and I’ll be spending a few days with Michel next week so we might be able to put something together… 🤔
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding That would be very cool! Some questions that you might want to consider: Your backgrounds and history. How you got into boat design/building. How many different boats you've designed/kitted. How did you end up doing this project together? How would you define design vs kitting and was there/is there an active back and forth. How the initial design takes form - headspace/clay/wood/cad and how the design progresses from there. How strength requirements are computed and how design strength is computed in dynamic environment like a boat. How planing characteristics are computed. How material strength is approximated considering the organic nature of wood. For the design of this particular boat, were there inspirations? Has the designer spent time building actual boats and does that inform the design process? Has the kitter (and builder) spent time designing boats and does that inform the kitting (and building) process? Have fun in Michigan! cheers, m
A really interesting video to see the process for forming the sheer clamp. No doubt you've thought of it, but don't forget to measure the workshop doors to be sure you can get Temptress out after you've made her!
That is going to be one instant "classic" boat when you are done. I was wondering if the plans are available anywhere as I scratch build remote control boats and think this would be a challenging project that I could attempt. it would also give me an opportunity to use my new resin 3d printer on a build for the first time, for deck fittings and the like. I'm fairly sure that with the 3d rendering you showed at the start of the video I could work out the basics of the framing, but plans would be a heck of a lot faster. Thanks for your time.
Yes, plans are available to buy here: danleeboatbuilding.co.uk/product/temptress-24ft-runabout/ I sell the full boat plans but also a simplified version for scale model/rc builders.
Wow! Seeing the full sheer clamp helps me understand why I could not bend and twist it into shape from straight timbers. Looks like I will pulling out the Shaper Origin again.
Yes there is a series on that boat on the channel and I have one more video to make on it covering the final deck install and finish. I should get round to making that video fairly soon.
worked on one of these boats last saturday, the inboard was removed and i built a external outboard mount, (stainless steel) installing the outmount what a surprise i got to find a double transom outer is 12mm ply fiber covered with a airgap of 150mm to the next transom 27mm thick, old motor was a mercruiser. remarkable craftmanship, this was a old boat but in really good condition, no rot, nothing,
I love how you think and am glad your views are picking up, which I knew they would. I have a thought about material and I believe I'm right and everyone else is wrong. lol No one uses red oak for boats as the pores run the whole way through it. There is a video of a guy blowing into both red and white showing the red bubbles water whereas the white does not. BUT if the ideal use of epoxy is to penetrate the wood as much as possible (ie, vacuum bag, low moisture content, slow hardening, rub first with alcohol to open pores) then why aren't we using red oak when using epoxy as it should allow a greater proportion of the epoxy to penetrate the wood?
Yes I’m glad they are picking up too, it makes all this work much better! I’d agree with you there and the Gougeon Brothers mention this in their book. When we are encapsulating with epoxy, the durability and rot resistance of the timber we use isn’t such a critical factor to consider.
Yup, such a CNC do-it-all could have been handy back in the days now and then 😁 Even with the scarfed joints looking magnificent I'd prefer the lamellated-in situ version with such closing curves, enabling nearly half the dimension of the finished part thus half the weight up on the topend of the hull in that timber by absolutely avoiding any crossgrain in the bends. When it comes to the dimension-in-shop problem - our machine room had added openings on both sides of all machinery, the planer/thicknesser and the tablesaw also stood on turntables and the strip-saw was enlargeable/prolongable out of the machine room over the walkway down to the slip 😄- which had us working these cuts before the tourists came in the morning or after they exited the area in the evening, because blocking the walkway wasn't an option with today's aggressively entitled tourists in an extremely pittoresque spot .... Thou shalt only be decorative and never be seriously working in such a place. Thanks for sharing!
I work for a small engineering company. With a staff of 20 ish guys. Our space is quite limited and frequently they take on jobs that are definitely outsize for us. In terms of machining and Fabrication capabilities. Yes we can move the entire workshop around, and work our way around it. But I always end up thinking the same thing...Why? We're a small company with limited space, I appreciate that times are tough and we've got to do what we can do. But when half the job is moving the entire factory so we can get it in and out, I don't see the point in doing the job at a loss.
Anything within the mahogany family would be my first choice; Brazilian, African, Philippine, Sapele or Utile. Then probably Douglas fir for structural elements if none of those were available. I’ll use Cedar for internal planking layers in my boat and I’m using Siberian Larch for longitudinals as well of course.
There will be a slight curve and twist formed when the laminations are glued up on the boat. The bevel should be really be shaped after that stage to give the correct shape 👍
You’d need to steam a timber of around 44x80mm cross section to make this. Not impossible but a very difficult bend and not achievable for the average builder.
I would have had to wire and duct it up which would have taken me longer than the sanding process. It also weighs about 500kgs so getting it outside would be quite difficult.
@ makes sense. I thought it would be easy since I saw the machine was already sitting on a pallet. Anyway, glad I stumbled upon your channel, you have a new follower.
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Love your work. Thanks for all the videos! How many people are also building this boat? would be cool to have a video of a clip from all the builds.
There are around 6 Temptress builds currently underway that I am aware of all though I don't necessarily get updated on the process of all of them. Hey, maybe one day we can have a Temptress builders meet up event!
Using CNC on timber... without following the timbers' natural grain... just makes that timber... weaker.... But using CNC... in 3D... on timber that has naturally twisted grain... that may reflect the lines of the finished product... that is exciting... CNC would make those odd weird shapes of bent wood... that can't be used for straight boards... much more valuable... like using live oaks' naturally curved branches... for curved timber... CNC would make that process far faster... far stronger... and more attainable...
The door is just wide enough, I am expecting to have to take the door frame out when the boat leaves though... we'll cross that bridge when we get to it 😆
Far to much time spent thinking inside the box as far as your shop is concerned. Try thinking outside the box brO. 30 YRS in boat building and repair taught me that.
Loved the wood dust compressor set-up in the same style as New Yorkshire Workshop.
Really cool sawdust handling system!
Very nicely explained, nice to see even pros have to move equipment around 😊
Brilliant plan
Exciting layup
Beautiful shaping, there.
The amount of twist and compound curvature in the sheer clamps of classic boats like these is truly insane. I ran into this problem on my current build, a 1950s Riva Scioattolo. Ended up using your small square section technique that you demonstrated on the quarter scale Temptress. Massively time-consuming, but the only way it could work for me. This is just one of several tips I've picked up from your videos. Many thanks, Dan!
The Scioattolo is a nice little boat! Yes these classics do have some challenging shapes to form, part of what makes their topsides look soo nice though! I'm glad to hear the videos are giving you useful tips to use.
Great work .
I’m volunteering on a recreation of a 30’ Unlimited hydroplane ,
The Miss Circus circus .
We are about to build the inside surface f the airtrap that stretches the entire 30’ with a scarfed assembly of 1”” Birch and skinned with Aluminum on exterior .
At 14’ wide , we are adding 5’ of sponson tips that have major curves like what you are facing . Our shop has 12, 30’ Raceboats so we are feeling queasy like you .
We sometimes bandsaw those battons and cut long , then glued as assembled , clamps instead of screws if possible.
As a boat racer , I like the feel of flexible, energy absorbing wood over the new composite materials that seem to fail catastrophically instead of showing a crack or leaking but still being useable .
Cool to see a mix of new tools to help make the assembly quicker and with more consistency.
Subscribed! Can’t wait to follow this build and see it through to completion
Wow, I’m absolutely completely aw. I can’t wait to finish. See this boat finished go go go.
„this freakin thing is massive!“ 😂❤ way to go!
You are an artist 😊
Is she going to fit out the door?
My exact thought, if it will just fit between the beams there is no way she will get out through that tiny door.
Now there is another challenge… the door frame will have to be removed in order to get her out, even then there will only be a few inches to spare 😖 that’s something to worry about another day when I get there 😁
@@DanLeeBoatbuildingInches? What are those? I'm an American. How many centimeters is that? lol. 70?
Bloody hell mate, that's an awkward length of timber to weild around a busy shed. I understand the odd french word slipping from your lips. Very smart option to steam bending.
@@DanLeeBoatbuildingPresumably with nice cutouts low down for the trailer wheels as well. Really interesting episode as ever Dan.
I'd be very interested in seeing a discussion between you and the designer of the boat at some point. There must be tons of interesting content potential there. I could think of 10 questions from the top of my head I'd be curious about.
Hmm, I might just be able to arrange that. I’m flying out to Michigan today and I’ll be spending a few days with Michel next week so we might be able to put something together… 🤔
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding That would be very cool! Some questions that you might want to consider:
Your backgrounds and history. How you got into boat design/building. How many different boats you've designed/kitted. How did you end up doing this project together? How would you define design vs kitting and was there/is there an active back and forth. How the initial design takes form - headspace/clay/wood/cad and how the design progresses from there. How strength requirements are computed and how design strength is computed in dynamic environment like a boat. How planing characteristics are computed. How material strength is approximated considering the organic nature of wood. For the design of this particular boat, were there inspirations? Has the designer spent time building actual boats and does that inform the design process? Has the kitter (and builder) spent time designing boats and does that inform the kitting (and building) process?
Have fun in Michigan!
cheers,
m
Very interesting episode Dan… 🇨🇦
Love your dust collection into pellets.
What is that magical dust-to-pellet machine???!!! I need that kind of sorcery in my shop! 🧙♂️
It’s called a Falach 50, great way to process sawdust waste 👍
Great design.
A really interesting video to see the process for forming the sheer clamp. No doubt you've thought of it, but don't forget to measure the workshop doors to be sure you can get Temptress out after you've made her!
I was going to say pff, if course he would have done that…then watched starting at 9:35!😅😅😅
That is going to be one instant "classic" boat when you are done. I was wondering if the plans are available anywhere as I scratch build remote control boats and think this would be a challenging project that I could attempt. it would also give me an opportunity to use my new resin 3d printer on a build for the first time, for deck fittings and the like. I'm fairly sure that with the 3d rendering you showed at the start of the video I could work out the basics of the framing, but plans would be a heck of a lot faster. Thanks for your time.
Yes, plans are available to buy here: danleeboatbuilding.co.uk/product/temptress-24ft-runabout/ I sell the full boat plans but also a simplified version for scale model/rc builders.
Wow! Seeing the full sheer clamp helps me understand why I could not bend and twist it into shape from straight timbers.
Looks like I will pulling out the Shaper Origin again.
Yeah I think this method will make things much easier for you Bob.
Have you done a video on that Healey? Lovely looking thing.
Yes there is a series on that boat on the channel and I have one more video to make on it covering the final deck install and finish. I should get round to making that video fairly soon.
Compound curves in wood? Thats hot
worked on one of these boats last saturday, the inboard was removed and i built a external outboard mount, (stainless steel) installing the outmount what a surprise i got to find a double transom outer is 12mm ply fiber covered with a airgap of 150mm to the next transom 27mm thick, old motor was a mercruiser.
remarkable craftmanship, this was a old boat but in really good condition, no rot, nothing,
... first time here ... hooked already ... Tally Ho has recently gone down my Patreon slipway ... hmmm
Welcome 🙏 it’s great to have you along and I hope you enjoy the series!
I love how you think and am glad your views are picking up, which I knew they would.
I have a thought about material and I believe I'm right and everyone else is wrong. lol
No one uses red oak for boats as the pores run the whole way through it. There is a video of a guy blowing into both red and white showing the red bubbles water whereas the white does not. BUT if the ideal use of epoxy is to penetrate the wood as much as possible (ie, vacuum bag, low moisture content, slow hardening, rub first with alcohol to open pores) then why aren't we using red oak when using epoxy as it should allow a greater proportion of the epoxy to penetrate the wood?
Yes I’m glad they are picking up too, it makes all this work much better! I’d agree with you there and the Gougeon Brothers mention this in their book. When we are encapsulating with epoxy, the durability and rot resistance of the timber we use isn’t such a critical factor to consider.
Watched a boatbuilder handle this problem by laminating three pieces of timber intoshape bothways with minimal wasteage. Thoughts
Yup, such a CNC do-it-all could have been handy back in the days now and then 😁
Even with the scarfed joints looking magnificent I'd prefer the lamellated-in situ version with such closing curves, enabling nearly half the dimension of the finished part thus half the weight up on the topend of the hull in that timber by absolutely avoiding any crossgrain in the bends.
When it comes to the dimension-in-shop problem - our machine room had added openings on both sides of all machinery, the planer/thicknesser and the tablesaw also stood on turntables and the strip-saw was enlargeable/prolongable out of the machine room over the walkway down to the slip 😄- which had us working these cuts before the tourists came in the morning or after they exited the area in the evening, because blocking the walkway wasn't an option with today's aggressively entitled tourists in an extremely pittoresque spot .... Thou shalt only be decorative and never be seriously working in such a place.
Thanks for sharing!
Stupid question.... but once built... will Temptress go through the doors?? Love this channel, by the way... Sorry... saw your answer below.. Cheers!
Just about, it's going to be a tight squeeze though.
We're going to need a bigger -boat- garage!
What brand of plywood do you intend to use?
I work for a small engineering company. With a staff of 20 ish guys. Our space is quite limited and frequently they take on jobs that are definitely outsize for us. In terms of machining and Fabrication capabilities. Yes we can move the entire workshop around, and work our way around it. But I always end up thinking the same thing...Why? We're a small company with limited space, I appreciate that times are tough and we've got to do what we can do. But when half the job is moving the entire factory so we can get it in and out, I don't see the point in doing the job at a loss.
You are going to need a bigger workshop at some point :)
Very skilled craftsman!!
Yes, it's going to be a squeeze building this boat!
If you had to pick a different type of wood to use to build the boat , what would it be ???
Anything within the mahogany family would be my first choice; Brazilian, African, Philippine, Sapele or Utile. Then probably Douglas fir for structural elements if none of those were available. I’ll use Cedar for internal planking layers in my boat and I’m using Siberian Larch for longitudinals as well of course.
Why not bevel the timbers on the CNC to reduce the manual work to create a fair curve?
There will be a slight curve and twist formed when the laminations are glued up on the boat. The bevel should be really be shaped after that stage to give the correct shape 👍
with good wood becoming harder and harder to find, it nice to see modern technology used to support traditional boat building.
That’s the first time I have seen someone moving a large drum sander while sanding a piece..
Yeah that was a new one for me as well 😆
Stumning!!!
How are you managing that 24 ft part through the CNC? Isn't the deck of the CNC only 8 ft?
It is CNC cut in smaller sections, less than 8' each. The final shaping will then be done by hand as demonstrated at the end of the video.
Are you able to steam it, instead of putting all that geometry into the cnc?
You’d need to steam a timber of around 44x80mm cross section to make this. Not impossible but a very difficult bend and not achievable for the average builder.
Interesting fact for you.....Denzil John Jarvis MD of Wadkin Engineering in Leicester was lost in the Titanic sinking in 1912.
Why not put the sanding machine outside during the sanding of the longest parts?
I would have had to wire and duct it up which would have taken me longer than the sanding process. It also weighs about 500kgs so getting it outside would be quite difficult.
@ makes sense. I thought it would be easy since I saw the machine was already sitting on a pallet. Anyway, glad I stumbled upon your channel, you have a new follower.
what engine?
An Ilmor, 5.3L GDI 💪
I live in texas,USA. Can you send me a link to a website where you get your pencils from
I'm not sure of a link that would be much use to you but they are made by a company called Pica 👍
To paraphrase Jaws, "I’m gonna need a bigger workshop"
Paraphrasing Robert Shaw: "You're going to need a bigger shop"
I think that was Roy Scheider (?)
👍👍👍
That was one of two right?
Oh yes, there will be two of these to make!
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Love your work. Thanks for all the videos! How many people are also building this boat? would be cool to have a video of a clip from all the builds.
There are around 6 Temptress builds currently underway that I am aware of all though I don't necessarily get updated on the process of all of them. Hey, maybe one day we can have a Temptress builders meet up event!
It would be easier if you could make an extension cord for you sander and roll it outside to do those.
Yes, had I thought about it a bit more I would have done that. Maybe an idea for the next large thing I have to machine.
Using CNC on timber... without following the timbers' natural grain... just makes that timber... weaker....
But using CNC... in 3D... on timber that has naturally twisted grain... that may reflect the lines of the finished product... that is exciting...
CNC would make those odd weird shapes of bent wood... that can't be used for straight boards... much more valuable... like using live oaks' naturally curved branches... for curved timber... CNC would make that process far faster... far stronger... and more attainable...
If you don’t have enough profanity in your vocabulary to complete this project, I will happily loan you some! 😂😂 😂
😂
⭐🙂👍
Mmmmm I think it’s over complicating it so it can be cut on the cnc. Surely quicker to vertically laminate it onto the frames of the boat
It might be quicker but sometimes quickness isn't the point.
A bit too restricted by workshop space just making things too awkward otherwise a fantastic video great skills with technology added
This is how skill is lost. I am a machinist by trade but that is becoming rare these days when most are just operators.
More skills are lost to businesses that go bust because they are no longer financially viable than to the ones that adapt and move with the times.
They say you expand to the size of your workshop. Had to laugh at the sanding. Question is "How wide is the door?"
The door is just wide enough, I am expecting to have to take the door frame out when the boat leaves though... we'll cross that bridge when we get to it 😆
Terrible grain alignment
don't forget door width. or you might end up like Mike Mulligan: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mulligan_and_His_Steam_Shovel
Far to much time spent thinking inside the box as far as your shop is concerned. Try thinking outside the box brO. 30 YRS in boat building and repair taught me that.