Tone is in your mind. Having a studio for 23 years or so, doing engineering and production work for other people fairly often, I've come to realize that what people pay me for, besides the knowledge of how to do things, is my taste, whatever it is in my mind that tells me, "this sounds good."
That's the truth. They need to trust your ear. I feel like my ear is pretty good at 43 after starting in my teens. Now I'm wishing I had used ear protection more often. You fine tune your listening skills over time only to go deaf from decibel abuse in the end. Kinda crazy
When you're trying to learn what makes a great vocal chain, I suggest finding some isolated vocals. Things sound very different in the context of a mix. If you're trying to figure out how a sound is produced it's a good idea to know how it sounds by itself. In the context of a mix, you may not realize how much low end has been EQ'd out of a vocal to get it to fit with a wall of guitars. Or you may not realize just how wet a vocal actually is because the other instruments are soaking up the reverb. Or it may sound clean when it's actually saturated. Etc. You can find famous vocals all over TH-cam. Just google the vocalist you want to hear and "isolated vocals" or "multitracks" or "vocals only." Then use a TH-cam to mp3 converter to download it and pop it into your DAW as a reference.
A useful approach to de-essing vocals, is to use the de-esser first before the compressor, so the comp takes a good signal, then depending on what processing you have done after the compressor, it is handy to add another de-esser, so that the task is split between two de-essers, to lighten the load and do things in layers and stages.
@@mokujin29 Absolutely sure, for all the work at the BBC studios, this is what we have always done. If you are going to De-ess, it is preferable to sort the de-essing out before you compress a signal, which would in-turn only highlight the harsh signal which needed de-essing in the first place. De-essing like the SA2, is not just for de-essing either, for most TV post production, you'd be amazed how much the signal is de-essed, before it hits anything else. Most people hear a smooth high end, not realising it's de-essing that is creating the smooth high end followed by using high shelf eq. I remember doing a session with Ray Davies from The Kinks, same approach.
Ha - I thought, “That sounded better without the EQ” right when you said, “Now, some of you might think this sounds better without the EQ”. I struggled with getting vocals to pop out for years and should know better. I do the double compression now. And you definitely have to listen to it in the mix. Great stuff, Joe!
Amazing as usual joe,. I always use a first fat channel with the 1176 and an eq and then another fat channel with an La2a and a pultec, for a pop vocal aproach
Personally I think if you don’t low cut and clean up the low end before compression will actually mess the dynamic of vocal, I don’t understand when you say you like the low end drive the compressor? We hear more mid frequencies in vocal, so shouldn’t the compressor grab those mid and high frequencies when vocal is too loud? Instead of all the low end? Plus vocal mic can also pick up low rumbles and ground noises? So wouldn’t low cut before the compressor be a more standard approach?
The only time I've ever listened to pro mixes in my studio are the moments when I'm pulling in reference tracks. I've never sat down and ACTIVELY LISTENED to pro mixes on my monitors, its always in the car. Another simple yet insanely powerful piece of advice. I will have some sessions just studying good mixes without simultaneously trying to apply them to the track Im mixing.
Toughest thing for me has been finding the pre-mastered version of the type of music I do. I can listen to the master on my monitors and hear it and notice how it sounds, but it always runs through my brain that I'm listening to the mastered version, and don't know how much that is affecting it.
Definitely hear the effect of the second compressor. Actually makes it more dynamic within the mix. Solid walkthrough. Great balance of talking about your process and also taking the time to show it. Thank you
This also brings up the question of when using multiple eqs and/or compressors, how do you go about choosing whether to repeat plugins or select different plugins and how to decide the order in the chain?
I love this video. It’s crazy all these producers who want to make music but don’t want to learn how to make music. All they’re after is tips hacks, tricks and SECRETS PRODUCERS DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW!
I love how you touched on the way a song (like Fugees) sounds a certain way you remember in your head, but really has something different going on. I recently have heard this a lot. "Back on the Chain Gang" is an example, the drums were way different than what I think I remember. And I think it's that the bass guitar makes the drums sound way beefy and thudier than they really are.
i'm happy to say i can hear the difference in each step of the chain. that's what i think makes the difference. i definitely don't have the ears some of those guys do (Scheps, Pensado) but it's encouraging to know i can hear some of the more subtle differences some people point out.
Really worthwhile to watch! Over the last few years I've expanded from hyper invested instrumentalist to main vocalist precisely because no one else to adequately perform vocals has been available. Although that seems to have been a surprising success in the live environment, very little time has been spent trying to record and produce vocal tracks (and that can be challenging to succeed with). This video has jogged some awareness of how to deal with the situation. Many thanks!
WOOOOOOOOW MAN!!! Light bulb moment. I GET IT NOW!! The 2nd compressor gets rid of those peaks the first one missed. So many times I would ignore those peaks and just let it live or modify the wav file and lower the volume just in the peak. You showed me how to have multiple plugins of the same thing really help build a great vocal.. Wow cool... Great Chain!!
Song sounds awesome! Also I remember a long time ago you showed "butter compression" and I still use it quite often to this day for a smooth overall leveling of vocal
not saying it's the case in this video, but in quite a few mixing/mastering videos that I have watched on YT, the person will tweak a knob and act like it made a HUGE difference, and I literally cannot hear any difference no matter how many times I rewind and listen again. It makes me wonder in some cases whether it is just placebo - "I turned a knob, so therefore it sounds better" kinda thing. Or maybe its just my ears - I do have decent headphones and speakers! 🙃
I mean, I heard it. The second compression? The low end being removed? Remember too that a lot of folks will use headphones, subs, etc to focus in on low end crafting and then switch back to more neutral listening on something like ns 10s for an overall balance. Compression can be hard to hear and for as low of a ratio as the 2nd one was, it is subtle but tames the dynamics and smashes the eq a bit, hence the second eq move. I dunno, I heard it, but I agree to mix with your ears and not your eyes which is why knobs > freq analyzers every time. Cheers
I was able to hear the differences with the various plug-ins whether they were in or out. I'm not using headphones, but an OK to decent Bluetooth speaker. It might be that I was thinking back to what I've done the past several months in building an effects chain that gives me the sound I'm after.
Love the coverage of your chain in a philosophical way! Very helpful. Your live mic is hitting me a little too crispy in the high-high end today for some reason. Maybe mama algorithm isn’t sampling well. Appreciate you Joe.
Love your content Joe, sadly my home studio recording/ producing journey is number 3 on the priority list at best at any given moment so I really appreciate how well you put your videos together. I would be ecstatic to win your course!
I'm always messing up my vocal chain and can never get it right... This was a good video very good tips and I see some things I can do differently and things to think of before even recording. Thank you,
6:01 - While I very much appreciate your perspective on this topic and I hope to get to practice it, I have 1 major issue with your statement here. "You're Smart" when people are looking for step by step instructions. I'm not a snowflake that's easily offended, but helping a data presenter not call his audience stupid. I am a person who understands, and knows people, that there are many types of brain chemistry that cannot cross certain conceptual allowances/adjustments versus them performing the process steps to accomplish a goal. So Intelligence != conceptual allowance in overall thinking. Otherwise, thank you for producing insightful and useful information and posting it here.
Excellent tutorial Joe. I can't say my current project has parts like songs, vocals, bass, drums, guitar, etc. However, my project is a church service Livestream. I do have songs with vocals, piano, sometimes guitar, and then spoken word. I have found that by doing more or less those same steps as you've demonstrated, what I'm hearing is much better, more intelligible, balanced, and the parts sit where I think they should. FWIW I start on my Studio One 6.1 Artist with a dynamic EQ for some 5k sibilance taming. To me, this specifically is done to remove the least wanted piece of audio. Next is fast then slow parallel compression, the goal is peak taming then broad brush dynamic reduction and make up gain. I follow this with another EQ to shape things a bit more. Next to last, is some polishing with my Pulsar Mu compression and Massive EQ more for coloring than anything else. Finally is my serial limiter duo. On paper it seems odd, but I feel I've got the results I was after. I do have 3 sends that goes into this as well, delay and reverb with sidechain ducking compression, distortion, and stereo widening. PS I'm really liking this new Mac Mini M2 for my DAW. 1000% better than before. One of the biggest takeaways in this video is to focus on the whole mix, even when your edits are seemingly only affecting vocals. ☕🍩
I was more live sound than recording. At the very bottom of the effects racks back in the analog days (to sort-a hide them from the how is he getting that sound eyes) was two Aphex Aural Exciter 103 Type C processors, three blue face Orban 526A Dynamic Sibilance Controllers (de-esser), and three blue face unknown model Orban tube type photo eye compressors. Orban was huge in radio and TV studios and super high end and even more super expensive, but back I when was buying and using them they were just considered "old stuff". If you get on E-Bay and check the prices of "old stuff" Orban gear... you will be shocked. Still very expensive and still very sought after. And, I'd stack their 245f Stereo Synthesizer against anything new out there. It was used back in the day to "stereoize" mono records for broadcast. I had many people say the vocals when I ran sound at concerts really sizzled, really punched through the mix. THAT was the Aphex in combination with the tube type photo eye compressors. The big digital mixers have a fake Aphex and fake photo eye compressors (don't know about the plug-ins).... but I have found they actually sound NOTHING like the original analog units. Ears are shot now, from running sound at too many high db concerts with no headphones... so I guess it doesn't matter anymore. Hearing aids help with the high frequency loss, but not all of it. Protect your ears people... you only have one set of them.
I like your style; simple steps with clear explanation. Mixing is a subtle art and although that second compressor barely made a difference, the articulation in the mix was more clear. Please do compensate for volume differences though, the first compressor just sounded like the volume was boosted.
All I needed for a good guitar tone was a good guitar and a 63 Deluxe Reverb…. and I hate to burst your bubble buddy but the rest actually was in my fingers. Touch and string manipulation is very much a driver of tone….. unless you’re a shredder of course. But this is just an old man from the old school…. What could I possibly know? Sure do appreciate ya Joe. I like your songs too. This one rocks man! Cheers friend!
@@jammer777 Joe’s a talented dude! This vocal chain vid drives home one important thing: EQ/COMPRESSION Stack em baby - stack em! Kinda like a good paint job on a car resto! Ya gotta lighr sand each coat. Keepin it simple.
@@zarlok5294 I’ve heard people play the exact same notes as David Gilmour with very similar equipment but it’s not the same. Playing technique (in the fingers) is a huge part of the sound.
@@jammer777 Yep. That’s the magic of the soul. Only the God made musicians have that connection. Just try to get Knofler’s tone. BB’s. Chet’s. Segovia’s…etc etc. impossible.
4;45 Noticed the same thing about ‘90’s kicks. They ride atop the bass, right? Now, that’s what I make, but I definitively prefer a kick with a magic freq of 62.4hz which I do by layering an 808 semi sub tone under it. It’s inauthentic, but I feel like it would’ve been how I would’ve insisted on doing it had I made beats back then. I noticed when I first heard “Lay Low” by snoop, the kick felt like it moved my damn car SIDEWAYS! I fell in love with the energy. Was an emcee at the time and had never touched a drum machine or mixed anything, but I knew enough about headroom to think “HOW on EARTH is there enough headroom for the rest of the track to BREATHE when the kick got a$$ like dat??!?” But it did. (Hint: nuanced use of saturation to accentuate an octave up, but you’ll really have to finesse it! Multiband processing and bespoke compression! Then bounce it down. I’ve got a folder of just QueMusiQ “Thumpy Kicks”. The more true to form 93-97 era east coast higher sampled kicks are in a folder called “Vinyl Kicks”. While some do knock like the mid 2000 era Dre kicks, they break up like the 45rpm trick sampled kicks of the 90’s.) Knew a random dancer who showed up to perform with us on Soul Train just once. Don’t recall his name. He put it perfectly. This was around 99-2001 because that’s when I was on ST, right around that new heavier Bernie Grunman influenced low end sound. “It’s the whether”, he said. “West coast is more car based subs and fancier cars with aftermarket stereos. In LA, y’all really don’t ride subways. “EAST coast is colder, so even if we are in cars, the windows are up and we’re more focused on warmth. Otherwise, it’s trains and headphones.” So at that time, we didn’t have all these Beats and Sony hyped up over the ear 🎧 type gadgets. If you were ballin, you had the $179 Sony MaxBass buds that were stolen immediately. Most folks had mid tier buds or whatever came with their discman or Walkman. The kicks HAD to be higher and more present to hold the riddim. Now? Everything is influenced by a lo-fi, lpf 9th Wonder kick, Dibia$e SP-404 sound, which suggests a thumpier kick, and that permeates the urban genre. Not to mention trap went smooth OFF circa 99-2004, into trap soul, lex Luger sounds, then dubstep and edm, kicks made entirely with Massive- NOW? Same general idea, but drill and grime has taken the Sub 808 tone, and compressed and distorted them to within an inch of their lives, not unlike ‘90’s era urban tracks with the DJ Premier/Havoc-esque lowmids focused vinyl sampled kicks. Full circle.
Great approach to vocal mixing! I now get the double-compression thing. In solo it‘s not that noticeable on my headphones but it makes a difference in the mix! Also: Nice song! And nice EP!
I'm going to leave the opposite of the "Joe I don't hear it, I don't get it" comment. That moment was a REVELATION. I can think of several demos I want to go back and try a second compressor on.
YES! This is great. Very helpful thanks! I could hear all the differences now that I've been doing ear training and it does make a big difference. Great tips.
Thank you Joe. I learned far better with you than the rest. You wait it well and a few others could me close, but they are in your class of knowledge. 🏆🎤🙏🏽 ☺
Some very VERY usable tips in there man! I happen to be working on a song containing my own vocals. Tomorrow I'll be in mix-modus, making use of this video. Greetings from Rotterdam!
You can use 2 de-essers for vox. One before the first compressor and one at the end of the chain, after any other compression or exciters. That way it tames some of that sibilance going into the first compressor, as compressing will bring those sibilances out. And you don't have to push one de-esser too hard.
Yes my newest discovery is mixing in general is making things "smaller" what it actually achieves is CLARITY.. I'm going as far as removing bass from my bass & kick drums.. I didn't get it at first but that's the difference. I was going for thick and exaggerated for a long time. Woop.
I didn’t see the FX or bus channel for the slap back delay. And there was no mention of a missing high pass early in the chain, or the high pass added later in the chain.
There’s def something to be said about performance. The better the performance the better the mix. But hearing those great tones better during the performance, the better the interaction with the instrument. A good proper monitor mix while tracking is key. All thatvstuff makes the mixing engineer’s job that much easier.
I've been wondering and noticed sometimes my vocals are to sharp so moving the pop filter to the side helps me at the same distance. Sometimes we get to uniformed.
Yeah the 2nd compressor makes it lay in there beautifully. And yes the vocal could be a touch louder . I think it's a bit wet with the Slap back but I'm definitely gonna try the comp first . I usually EQ then do 2 compressors. One thing I do first is D-ess . I find I don't have to eq as much sibilance out dynamically . Then I'll put another instance of D-esser last also. I heard you say you used a Dynamic mic. That's strange I just picked up a used Beyer Dynamic at Guitar center for 27 $ today. It sounds Incredible. I can see it sounding better than my Mojave Tube condenser and SM7B for certain things. Honestly , I figured for 27$ I could throw it out if it completely sucked. I'm so glad I got it. What did you use SM7B?
Joe, I've been watching you for years. Great to see you, Jordan, and others on RR as well. All wonderful channels and I can thank you all enough for the many things I've learned over the years. Btw, I see much heavier hands often on comp for vox. How much, if at all, did you comp in tracking? Cheers
Very good stuff, thanks! So do you add the compression and EQ and second compressor after the vocal is recorded or do you do any compression on the way in? Also, how does outboard gear/compressors compare to plugins in the box? Thanks! This sounds excellent.
Cool advices ! thanks for theses. By the way, I didn't know that pre-sonus has plugins like that. Now that I think of it ... maybe it's part of Studio One daw.
again using A.I. to pull tracks apart is interesting because in my head singers are amazing and can do all this stuff I can’t do .. when you really listen to a vocal you find out the emotional delivery is more important than the timing or tuning .. as an engineer fixing up my own sound I find this almost impossible to do :-(
The only reason your guitar simile breaks is because tone is subjective and each person's hearing besides being objectively different is also subjectively different. Therefore tone is talked about in how you ATTAIN it and not WHAT IT IS. And that's why "tone is in your fingers" is totally valid and NOT subjective because your fingers are literally the first thing that affects tone - how you pick, where you pick, what you pick with etc. But that's guitar. There is no vocals equivalent to guitar tone theory because of the way the tone is made. On the other hand you saved me a sh•t ton of time on my vocals mixing from noodling just by using your basic schemes!! 🎸
Hi Joe, I was unable to get the checklist. I followed instructions, however your algorithm assumes I have an account already, because I get no choice to create the account. My only option is “ forgot password “?
This was a great freakin video! Thank you so much. I've never sandwiched eq and compression. I'm going to try this on the mix of my next single! Thank you so much!
3 weeks ago glad 2 b a fresh sub thanks so much bro. if someone can confirm this for me it'd be great. so, from my understanding of the eq, it is to shape and fix and or enhance the sound, like using salt (or other herbs or seasonings (as other eq related plug-ins)) in a stew to to either "fix it" or add more flavor. too little is bland, too much is inedible. As for compression, the term "gluing" is applied due to the way it condenses (or binds) the signal (in this case the vocal) and evens the volume of the loudest and softest parts, and each compressor would have it's own personality (as if each compressor may be compared to a the grip of a hand, i.e. someone with a larger hand may have a more effective grip but may end up crushing the more delicate parts of the aspect in question (perhaps like an optical compressor) and maybe a smaller hand may have a less apparent grip objectively (not relating to strength or firmness as each compressor may be adjusted as such) but may bring out more of the subtler, finer essences of the aspect in question, (perhaps a tube or FET compressor?)) Either way we may say it is the tools with which the stew is prepared with, correct? As in, a grill vs stovetop, stainless steel vs cast iron, (would go as far to say temperature) may bring a different flavor profile or sound to the mix yes? Proper use of these aspects creates good sounding food? wait.
Noticed recently (as in got some beyerdynamic dt770 headphones) that a lot of vocals I like are doubles hard panned left and right with no center vocal 🤔. Literally have a vocal playlist and noticed a lot of times they are quite small and midrange sounding if they’re mono and not nearly as bright as I’ve been making mine but more so just heavily compressed. Also just kinda crummy sounding to be fair
Tone is in your mind. Having a studio for 23 years or so, doing engineering and production work for other people fairly often, I've come to realize that what people pay me for, besides the knowledge of how to do things, is my taste, whatever it is in my mind that tells me, "this sounds good."
That's the truth. They need to trust your ear. I feel like my ear is pretty good at 43 after starting in my teens. Now I'm wishing I had used ear protection more often. You fine tune your listening skills over time only to go deaf from decibel abuse in the end. Kinda crazy
When you're trying to learn what makes a great vocal chain, I suggest finding some isolated vocals. Things sound very different in the context of a mix. If you're trying to figure out how a sound is produced it's a good idea to know how it sounds by itself. In the context of a mix, you may not realize how much low end has been EQ'd out of a vocal to get it to fit with a wall of guitars. Or you may not realize just how wet a vocal actually is because the other instruments are soaking up the reverb. Or it may sound clean when it's actually saturated. Etc.
You can find famous vocals all over TH-cam. Just google the vocalist you want to hear and "isolated vocals" or "multitracks" or "vocals only." Then use a TH-cam to mp3 converter to download it and pop it into your DAW as a reference.
Great lesson, Joe! I don't know why some folks are afraid to throw that first compressor at 4:1 on a vocal. You nailed it!
A useful approach to de-essing vocals, is to use the de-esser first before the compressor, so the comp takes a good signal, then depending on what processing you have done after the compressor, it is handy to add another de-esser, so that the task is split between two de-essers, to lighten the load and do things in layers and stages.
"Good Signal" ? ARe you sure that your flavour of De esser is not removing more from the bands than you reckon ?
@@mokujin29 Absolutely sure, for all the work at the BBC studios, this is what we have always done. If you are going to De-ess, it is preferable to sort the de-essing out before you compress a signal, which would in-turn only highlight the harsh signal which needed de-essing in the first place. De-essing like the SA2, is not just for de-essing either, for most TV post production, you'd be amazed how much the signal is de-essed, before it hits anything else. Most people hear a smooth high end, not realising it's de-essing that is creating the smooth high end followed by using high shelf eq. I remember doing a session with Ray Davies from The Kinks, same approach.
I finally found a sound explanation on vocal chain theory! Thanks so much you’re a master!
Thanks, as always, Joe!!! Def helps refocus and re-look at my vocal chain.
Ha - I thought, “That sounded better without the EQ” right when you said, “Now, some of you might think this sounds better without the EQ”. I struggled with getting vocals to pop out for years and should know better. I do the double compression now. And you definitely have to listen to it in the mix. Great stuff, Joe!
Amazing as usual joe,. I always use a first fat channel with the 1176 and an eq and then another fat channel with an La2a and a pultec, for a pop vocal aproach
Personally I think if you don’t low cut and clean up the low end before compression will actually mess the dynamic of vocal, I don’t understand when you say you like the low end drive the compressor? We hear more mid frequencies in vocal, so shouldn’t the compressor grab those mid and high frequencies when vocal is too loud? Instead of all the low end? Plus vocal mic can also pick up low rumbles and ground noises? So wouldn’t low cut before the compressor be a more standard approach?
Yes. Filter first then compress then eq
The only time I've ever listened to pro mixes in my studio are the moments when I'm pulling in reference tracks. I've never sat down and ACTIVELY LISTENED to pro mixes on my monitors, its always in the car. Another simple yet insanely powerful piece of advice. I will have some sessions just studying good mixes without simultaneously trying to apply them to the track Im mixing.
Toughest thing for me has been finding the pre-mastered version of the type of music I do. I can listen to the master on my monitors and hear it and notice how it sounds, but it always runs through my brain that I'm listening to the mastered version, and don't know how much that is affecting it.
Definitely hear the effect of the second compressor. Actually makes it more dynamic within the mix. Solid walkthrough. Great balance of talking about your process and also taking the time to show it. Thank you
This also brings up the question of when using multiple eqs and/or compressors, how do you go about choosing whether to repeat plugins or select different plugins and how to decide the order in the chain?
I love this video. It’s crazy all these producers who want to make music but don’t want to learn how to make music. All they’re after is tips hacks, tricks and SECRETS PRODUCERS DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW!
Watched this video half a day ago...very well done. And you can sing. Love the digital delay on your voice.
That de-S had a dramatic influence, totally changed the game in the whole mix, thank you
I love how you touched on the way a song (like Fugees) sounds a certain way you remember in your head, but really has something different going on.
I recently have heard this a lot. "Back on the Chain Gang" is an example, the drums were way different than what I think I remember. And I think it's that the bass guitar makes the drums sound way beefy and thudier than they really are.
From excitement to memorizing the first verse of 'Row Your Boat', I'm now stoked. Wow, thanks!
The most helpful lesson about vocal processing I've ever seen! For me that game changer, thank u man!
i'm happy to say i can hear the difference in each step of the chain. that's what i think makes the difference. i definitely don't have the ears some of those guys do (Scheps, Pensado) but it's encouraging to know i can hear some of the more subtle differences some people point out.
Really worthwhile to watch! Over the last few years I've expanded from hyper invested instrumentalist to main vocalist precisely because no one else to adequately perform vocals has been available. Although that seems to have been a surprising success in the live environment, very little time has been spent trying to record and produce vocal tracks (and that can be challenging to succeed with). This video has jogged some awareness of how to deal with the situation. Many thanks!
WOOOOOOOOW MAN!!! Light bulb moment. I GET IT NOW!! The 2nd compressor gets rid of those peaks the first one missed. So many times I would ignore those peaks and just let it live or modify the wav file and lower the volume just in the peak. You showed me how to have multiple plugins of the same thing really help build a great vocal.. Wow cool... Great Chain!!
Thanks for this, Joe. I'm working on a mix & having some issue get the lead vox to sit the way I want it to. I'm gonna try some of these tips tonight
What a well put together video. I learned a lot! I also wanted to point out that your voice is smooth asf.
Song sounds awesome! Also I remember a long time ago you showed "butter compression" and I still use it quite often to this day for a smooth overall leveling of vocal
Is the video still up??
Wow great stuff. After mastering the vox made sense after all the twicks. Thanks Joe
A good VST for this is the Brainworx digital collection. I don't think I've seen better before. Great video
There's a Jeff Healey vibe going on in this. Sounding good, and thanks for the tips.
not saying it's the case in this video, but in quite a few mixing/mastering videos that I have watched on YT, the person will tweak a knob and act like it made a HUGE difference, and I literally cannot hear any difference no matter how many times I rewind and listen again. It makes me wonder in some cases whether it is just placebo - "I turned a knob, so therefore it sounds better" kinda thing. Or maybe its just my ears - I do have decent headphones and speakers! 🙃
Have you ever tweaked something on a plugin thinking it made things better, but the plugin wasn’t even enabled 🥸
@@samxday lol exactly! Pretty sure I have done that 😆
@@samxday Guilty.....
I mean, I heard it. The second compression? The low end being removed? Remember too that a lot of folks will use headphones, subs, etc to focus in on low end crafting and then switch back to more neutral listening on something like ns 10s for an overall balance. Compression can be hard to hear and for as low of a ratio as the 2nd one was, it is subtle but tames the dynamics and smashes the eq a bit, hence the second eq move. I dunno, I heard it, but I agree to mix with your ears and not your eyes which is why knobs > freq analyzers every time. Cheers
I was able to hear the differences with the various plug-ins whether they were in or out. I'm not using headphones, but an OK to decent Bluetooth speaker. It might be that I was thinking back to what I've done the past several months in building an effects chain that gives me the sound I'm after.
This was a breakthrough video for me, thanks Joe.
Joe, this in one of my fave tutorials that I have seen of your's. I think you are the best audio teacher I have seen online. Keep it up :-)
Love the coverage of your chain in a philosophical way! Very helpful. Your live mic is hitting me a little too crispy in the high-high end today for some reason. Maybe mama algorithm isn’t sampling well. Appreciate you Joe.
Love your content Joe, sadly my home studio recording/ producing journey is number 3 on the priority list at best at any given moment so I really appreciate how well you put your videos together. I would be ecstatic to win your course!
Thanks Joe. I love your videos, you've helped me an incredible amount as an amateur home recorder and you have a fantastic voice too. Cheers mate👍
Side note , one of the greatest mixing engineers Bruce Swedien said “ I hate compression I rarely use it !! “ Can’t wrap my head around it.
I hear the difference on the compressor! Sounds great!
I'm eternally grateful to you, Joe! Thanks for the work! 🧡
No, that 2nd compressor made a MASSIVE difference. Good video!
I'm always messing up my vocal chain and can never get it right... This was a good video very good tips and I see some things I can do differently and things to think of before even recording. Thank you,
6:01 - While I very much appreciate your perspective on this topic and I hope to get to practice it, I have 1 major issue with your statement here. "You're Smart" when people are looking for step by step instructions. I'm not a snowflake that's easily offended, but helping a data presenter not call his audience stupid. I am a person who understands, and knows people, that there are many types of brain chemistry that cannot cross certain conceptual allowances/adjustments versus them performing the process steps to accomplish a goal. So Intelligence != conceptual allowance in overall thinking. Otherwise, thank you for producing insightful and useful information and posting it here.
thank You
😊
Excellent tutorial Joe.
I can't say my current project has parts like songs, vocals, bass, drums, guitar, etc. However, my project is a church service Livestream. I do have songs with vocals, piano, sometimes guitar, and then spoken word.
I have found that by doing more or less those same steps as you've demonstrated, what I'm hearing is much better, more intelligible, balanced, and the parts sit where I think they should.
FWIW I start on my Studio One 6.1 Artist with a dynamic EQ for some 5k sibilance taming. To me, this specifically is done to remove the least wanted piece of audio. Next is fast then slow parallel compression, the goal is peak taming then broad brush dynamic reduction and make up gain. I follow this with another EQ to shape things a bit more. Next to last, is some polishing with my Pulsar Mu compression and Massive EQ more for coloring than anything else. Finally is my serial limiter duo. On paper it seems odd, but I feel I've got the results I was after.
I do have 3 sends that goes into this as well, delay and reverb with sidechain ducking compression, distortion, and stereo widening.
PS I'm really liking this new Mac Mini M2 for my DAW. 1000% better than before. One of the biggest takeaways in this video is to focus on the whole mix, even when your edits are seemingly only affecting vocals.
☕🍩
That second compressor does SO much!!
I was more live sound than recording. At the very bottom of the effects racks back in the analog days (to sort-a hide them from the how is he getting that sound eyes) was two Aphex Aural Exciter 103 Type C processors, three blue face Orban 526A Dynamic Sibilance Controllers (de-esser), and three blue face unknown model Orban tube type photo eye compressors. Orban was huge in radio and TV studios and super high end and even more super expensive, but back I when was buying and using them they were just considered "old stuff". If you get on E-Bay and check the prices of "old stuff" Orban gear... you will be shocked. Still very expensive and still very sought after. And, I'd stack their 245f Stereo Synthesizer against anything new out there. It was used back in the day to "stereoize" mono records for broadcast. I had many people say the vocals when I ran sound at concerts really sizzled, really punched through the mix. THAT was the Aphex in combination with the tube type photo eye compressors. The big digital mixers have a fake Aphex and fake photo eye compressors (don't know about the plug-ins).... but I have found they actually sound NOTHING like the original analog units. Ears are shot now, from running sound at too many high db concerts with no headphones... so I guess it doesn't matter anymore. Hearing aids help with the high frequency loss, but not all of it. Protect your ears people... you only have one set of them.
Thank you for sharing it.
I like your style; simple steps with clear explanation. Mixing is a subtle art and although that second compressor barely made a difference, the articulation in the mix was more clear. Please do compensate for volume differences though, the first compressor just sounded like the volume was boosted.
All I needed for a good guitar tone was a good guitar and a 63 Deluxe Reverb…. and I hate to burst your bubble buddy but the rest actually was in my fingers. Touch and string manipulation is very much a driver of tone….. unless you’re a shredder of course. But this is just an old man from the old school…. What could I possibly know?
Sure do appreciate ya Joe. I like your songs too. This one rocks man! Cheers friend!
Agree!
@@jammer777 Joe’s a talented dude! This vocal chain vid drives home one important thing:
EQ/COMPRESSION
Stack em baby - stack em! Kinda like a good paint job on a car resto! Ya gotta lighr sand each coat.
Keepin it simple.
@@zarlok5294 I’ve heard people play the exact same notes as David Gilmour with very similar equipment but it’s not the same. Playing technique (in the fingers) is a huge part of the sound.
@@jammer777 Yep. That’s the magic of the soul. Only the God made musicians have that connection. Just try to get Knofler’s tone. BB’s. Chet’s. Segovia’s…etc etc. impossible.
4;45 Noticed the same thing about ‘90’s kicks. They ride atop the bass, right? Now, that’s what I make, but I definitively prefer a kick with a magic freq of 62.4hz which I do by layering an 808 semi sub tone under it. It’s inauthentic, but I feel like it would’ve been how I would’ve insisted on doing it had I made beats back then. I noticed when I first heard “Lay Low” by snoop, the kick felt like it moved my damn car SIDEWAYS! I fell in love with the energy. Was an emcee at the time and had never touched a drum machine or mixed anything, but I knew enough about headroom to think “HOW on EARTH is there enough headroom for the rest of the track to BREATHE when the kick got a$$ like dat??!?” But it did. (Hint: nuanced use of saturation to accentuate an octave up, but you’ll really have to finesse it! Multiband processing and bespoke compression! Then bounce it down. I’ve got a folder of just QueMusiQ “Thumpy Kicks”. The more true to form 93-97 era east coast higher sampled kicks are in a folder called “Vinyl Kicks”. While some do knock like the mid 2000 era Dre kicks, they break up like the 45rpm trick sampled kicks of the 90’s.)
Knew a random dancer who showed up to perform with us on Soul Train just once. Don’t recall his name. He put it perfectly. This was around 99-2001 because that’s when I was on ST, right around that new heavier Bernie Grunman influenced low end sound.
“It’s the whether”, he said. “West coast is more car based subs and fancier cars with aftermarket stereos. In LA, y’all really don’t ride subways.
“EAST coast is colder, so even if we are in cars, the windows are up and we’re more focused on warmth. Otherwise, it’s trains and headphones.”
So at that time, we didn’t have all these Beats and Sony hyped up over the ear 🎧 type gadgets. If you were ballin, you had the $179 Sony MaxBass buds that were stolen immediately. Most folks had mid tier buds or whatever came with their discman or Walkman. The kicks HAD to be higher and more present to hold the riddim.
Now? Everything is influenced by a lo-fi, lpf 9th Wonder kick, Dibia$e SP-404 sound, which suggests a thumpier kick, and that permeates the urban genre. Not to mention trap went smooth OFF circa 99-2004, into trap soul, lex Luger sounds, then dubstep and edm, kicks made entirely with Massive-
NOW? Same general idea, but drill and grime has taken the Sub 808 tone, and compressed and distorted them to within an inch of their lives, not unlike ‘90’s era urban tracks with the DJ Premier/Havoc-esque lowmids focused vinyl sampled kicks. Full circle.
Great approach to vocal mixing! I now get the double-compression thing. In solo it‘s not that noticeable on my headphones but it makes a difference in the mix!
Also: Nice song! And nice EP!
Good info and I really like the tune, can I buy it any place yet ?
I'm going to leave the opposite of the "Joe I don't hear it, I don't get it" comment. That moment was a REVELATION. I can think of several demos I want to go back and try a second compressor on.
Thanks Joe and Graham.
Man I love this process, thanks a lot man
YES! This is great. Very helpful thanks! I could hear all the differences now that I've been doing ear training and it does make a big difference. Great tips.
Thank you Joe. I learned far better with you than the rest. You wait it well and a few others could me close, but they are in your class of knowledge. 🏆🎤🙏🏽 ☺
4:47 a really important point
Some very VERY usable tips in there man! I happen to be working on a song containing my own vocals. Tomorrow I'll be in mix-modus, making use of this video. Greetings from Rotterdam!
You can use 2 de-essers for vox. One before the first compressor and one at the end of the chain, after any other compression or exciters. That way it tames some of that sibilance going into the first compressor, as compressing will bring those sibilances out. And you don't have to push one de-esser too hard.
Yes my newest discovery is mixing in general is making things "smaller" what it actually achieves is CLARITY.. I'm going as far as removing bass from my bass & kick drums.. I didn't get it at first but that's the difference. I was going for thick and exaggerated for a long time. Woop.
I didn’t see the FX or bus channel for the slap back delay. And there was no mention of a missing high pass early in the chain, or the high pass added later in the chain.
There’s def something to be said about performance. The better the performance the better the mix. But hearing those great tones better during the performance, the better the interaction with the instrument. A good proper monitor mix while tracking is key. All thatvstuff makes the mixing engineer’s job that much easier.
Great song Joe
Well explained, I don't like the idea of people using same fixed certain presets for every mixing 🙏🏿
This is a great tutorial. Week done sir!
I've been wondering and noticed sometimes my vocals are to sharp so moving the pop filter to the side helps me at the same distance. Sometimes we get to uniformed.
I love your videos, they are Soooo usefull to me. Thank you so much !
Yeah I don't hear the difference with the second compressor; however I do hear a difference in the mix. Great!!!
Yeah the 2nd compressor makes it lay in there beautifully. And yes the vocal could be a touch louder . I think it's a bit wet with the Slap back but I'm definitely gonna try the comp first . I usually EQ then do 2 compressors. One thing I do first is D-ess . I find I don't have to eq as much sibilance out dynamically . Then I'll put another instance of D-esser last also. I heard you say you used a Dynamic mic. That's strange I just picked up a used Beyer Dynamic at Guitar center for 27 $ today. It sounds Incredible. I can see it sounding better than my Mojave Tube condenser and SM7B for certain things. Honestly , I figured for 27$ I could throw it out if it completely sucked. I'm so glad I got it. What did you use SM7B?
16:20 biiiig difference i love that, i gotta try that butter technique
Joe, I've been watching you for years. Great to see you, Jordan, and others on RR as well. All wonderful channels and I can thank you all enough for the many things I've learned over the years. Btw, I see much heavier hands often on comp for vox. How much, if at all, did you comp in tracking? Cheers
Great video man.
Soon as you said KILLING ME SOFTLY I thought ONE TIME!!!!🤨🤨🤨😂😂😂😂😂 Thanks for this vid !!!!
I put an eq with low cut before the comp to avoid the low end triggering it
Nice! What is that delay you're using? Thanx!
Very good stuff, thanks! So do you add the compression and EQ and second compressor after the vocal is recorded or do you do any compression on the way in? Also, how does outboard gear/compressors compare to plugins in the box? Thanks! This sounds excellent.
Thanks joe you are the man
I never why I am interest in someone's vocal ...one has his own mind ...use it ...the best vocal chain is an incredible singer
Great info !!!
Thanks Joe.
i just joint i love your knowledge
Love it !!!
Good insight 🔊🔊🔊
Do you use a sonic maximizer or Aphex exciter at all? If so, where do you place it in the chain?
Cool advices ! thanks for theses. By the way, I didn't know that pre-sonus has plugins like that. Now that I think of it ... maybe it's part of Studio One daw.
Hi , what pluggins do you use?
Pretty cool 😎
Yeah I got them bats around here too. Hard to hit those little things.
again using A.I. to pull tracks apart is interesting because in my head singers are amazing and can do all this stuff I can’t do .. when you really listen to a vocal you find out the emotional delivery is more important than the timing or tuning .. as an engineer fixing up my own sound I find this almost impossible to do :-(
The only reason your guitar simile breaks is because tone is subjective and each person's hearing besides being objectively different is also subjectively different. Therefore tone is talked about in how you ATTAIN it and not WHAT IT IS. And that's why "tone is in your fingers" is totally valid and NOT subjective because your fingers are literally the first thing that affects tone - how you pick, where you pick, what you pick with etc. But that's guitar. There is no vocals equivalent to guitar tone theory because of the way the tone is made. On the other hand you saved me a sh•t ton of time on my vocals mixing from noodling just by using your basic schemes!! 🎸
Hi Joe,
I was unable to get the checklist.
I followed instructions, however your algorithm assumes I have an account already, because I get no choice to create the account. My only option is “ forgot password “?
i thought in another video you made you said the mistake alot of people make is eqing before doing compression
This was a great freakin video! Thank you so much. I've never sandwiched eq and compression. I'm going to try this on the mix of my next single! Thank you so much!
3 weeks ago glad 2 b a fresh sub thanks so much bro. if someone can confirm this for me it'd be great. so, from my understanding of the eq, it is to shape and fix and or enhance the sound, like using salt (or other herbs or seasonings (as other eq related plug-ins)) in a stew to to either "fix it" or add more flavor. too little is bland, too much is inedible. As for compression, the term "gluing" is applied due to the way it condenses (or binds) the signal (in this case the vocal) and evens the volume of the loudest and softest parts, and each compressor would have it's own personality (as if each compressor may be compared to a the grip of a hand, i.e. someone with a larger hand may have a more effective grip but may end up crushing the more delicate parts of the aspect in question (perhaps like an optical compressor) and maybe a smaller hand may have a less apparent grip objectively (not relating to strength or firmness as each compressor may be adjusted as such) but may bring out more of the subtler, finer essences of the aspect in question, (perhaps a tube or FET compressor?)) Either way we may say it is the tools with which the stew is prepared with, correct? As in, a grill vs stovetop, stainless steel vs cast iron, (would go as far to say temperature) may bring a different flavor profile or sound to the mix yes? Proper use of these aspects creates good sounding food? wait.
Nice
Noticed recently (as in got some beyerdynamic dt770 headphones) that a lot of vocals I like are doubles hard panned left and right with no center vocal 🤔. Literally have a vocal playlist and noticed a lot of times they are quite small and midrange sounding if they’re mono and not nearly as bright as I’ve been making mine but more so just heavily compressed. Also just kinda crummy sounding to be fair
Thank you so much
Where can I hear this full song? Absolutely loved the sound of this!
Multiband compressor is the secret sauce
what happened to GRAM
Butter vox does make a difference.. Smooth like butter.. slight bit of sibilance at that point.. Watching on and maybe you address that ..
🔥🔥🔥