@@barebonesmc ktm does not support their dealers in the US market. Dealers are are left apologizing to their customers for not being able to properly service end users.
It's funny, I saw a TH-cam video about their camshaft issues with the 790/890 engines. How the hell can you manufacture a machine with a "soft" camshaft? I'll tell you how, allow those Commie Chins at CF Moto to build your bikes! I'm sorry but if I'm buying an "Austrian" motorcycle, I don't want it made in China!
No joke, I had a senior customer service rep from KTM Temecula, CA tell me that my EFI problems with my 690 were now my problems as I now own the motorcycle, not ktm!?!?! Having been in customer service for 50 years, having owned my own motorcycle shop for 5 years, I was in shock. After that exchange, while seeking support, I vowed never to own another KTM.
A few points: 1. Businesses exist to make profits. I want my dealer and motorcycle manufacturer to make profits. However, I do not want them to lower quality to achieve profits. This is not only a KTM problem but also a BMW problem. 2. KTM dealers do not allow test rides in the USA, which significantly impacts sales more than interest rates. 3. They do have a point regarding EU regulations.
FWIW, Test rides must vary by location and dealers in the USA. My local KTM dealer in Texas does allow test rides for a least KTM and Husqvarna street legal bikes (I can't speak for the other brands as I have only tested these two, but I assume that it would be the same for others as well), and even allow limited off road testing out on a field close to the shop. For the dirt bikes, they have periodic bike days where you can test ride KTM, Husqvarna, and Gas Gas bikes on a motocross track (These are sponsored events).
If you want test rides then you should pay for that experience $150 for 20 minute ride and then that is applied to purchase price if you buy. I bet 80% of people take free test rides just for the experience with no intent to buy. As a buyer I don't want an abused test ride bike otherwise I would buy used or expect huge discount. The other point is there are plenty of online resources and videos at nauseum to assist your buying decision. I have purchased 4 new bikes in past 13 years without a single test ride on this basis. I decided what I wanted and got what I expected. It isn't rocket science unless you are a squid.
Corporate profits being a priority over product quality will be the death of more than motorcycle manufacturers. Its disappointing as a society we stand back and let it happen.
It's also a shrinking market as it's getting ever more expensive to start riding in Europe. With the rise of Asia and the steady decline of well paid manufacturing jobs (relative to other unskilled work), we are seeing the already rich continue to compound their wealth whilst everyone else gets squeezed. That might sound like I'm an advocate of Marxist theory, but it's happening.
Price of a bass boats +$70,000, price for dirtbike +$10,000 , Price for pick up truck +$50,000, Price for gas ridiculous, .....etc etc etc. IS debt $38trillion, World Wide Inflation out of control
They don't even need to do that. Just stand by the bikes during the warranty period. New bike buyers don't generally care much about reliability. What they do care about is if the bike breaks it gets fixed quickly and at no cost to them.
Not a good point at all - KTM have proved beyond doubt in competition they are one of the strongest and most reliable brands - the multitude of championships prove this without doubt and only a fool can question that
That's not the problem here, KTM have been around for a long time and know how to make motorcycles. The problem is KTM prioritising profit over quality (reliability) and their customer base (loyalty).
@@lionelcook8522 not necessarily accurate. The name has been around for decades, but it has been owned by more than one entity over the years, which usually indicates poor decision making at management.
@@lionelcook8522 if their goal is profit, then they need to learn how to actually make bikes. These shits have rocketship prices and horse manure quality.
That is the problem. I knew when they dove off head first no limits in 2012 on a complete new bike just to lure dungey over. I knew they were going to sink at some point. Then they did the new model every year and add in making 8 million different models and factory editions. When you have the other 3 japanese brands selling large numbers with half the investment. 4 year model cycle and minimum models. If not for redbull. There would be no mx team in the U.S.@@lionelcook8522
@@barebonesmc look at the engine on triumph 250 lol. its a ktm engine. loads of companies have shared engines. bmw c400 scooter is a chinese scooter dressed up.
Like in the automotive world, if you price your product higher than your target market can afford, you'll outstrip your food supply. Basic economics. Unlike in most of the world, in the US, bikes are a luxury product not daily transport for most people so when budgets are tight, bikes are a logical place to cut. Even basic scooters are expensive here. If they shift design to the 3rd world along with production, then their product won't justify the price - will be a self-feeding decline
Every MX bike depreciates horribly. I bought one this year that was 9 months old with 1.5 hours for $3k less than the original owner. It's just the nature of the market.
@barebonesmc The 790/890 KTM started going down a slippery road. By introducing Software unlocking for hardware you've already purchased. A terrible business strategy And worse is a subscription fee
I am really worried about the Motorcycle industry as a whole. I might be wrong but I think the industry is in a depression. Motogp is a Ducati fest, reliability issues with KTM, Harley Davidson is a joke and all kinds of other issues. Here in Perth Western Australia I found it hard if not impossible to get parts for my motocross bike's. Repairs and maintenance well that's depressing, I've even had dealership's here tell me ' we don't fix em - we only sell em'.. So I bought a lathe, milling machine and 20 thousand dollars worth of tools 🔧 Business is booming for me repairing, machining a fixing people's bike's
It should be said though, there’s no good alternative to companies being “profit driven”. Profits are the reward for risk taking, vision and industriousness, after all. But there is a great alternative to bureaucracy, overregulation, inflation, onerous taxation, self destructive monetary policy etc… all of the outcomes of bad government, which drive companies to chase short term profits rather than long lasting stability. It’s fun to criticize Perrier, though all they’ve done is make a profit selling bad motorcycles. But where will good motorcycles come from, if governments around the globe can’t figure out how to create a good business environment… good for companies and for consumers?
Went back to Japanese bikes and couldn't be happier. My first KTM was back in1984. Due to a reoccurring cracking shifting fork issue on that bike, and random neutrals, I suffered a bad crash and fractured my spine. I was lucky and healed up without paralysis. In my view, nothing compares to the "less sexy" Japanese motorcycles.
Well we are all different. Kawasaki is a brand that i never considered comparing to KTM. Unless a 250 or 450 mx. What Kawasaki bikes are you comparing to the 690 or the adventure bikes, the 2-stroke enduro bikes, the 350 or 500 exc? I could buy japanese if they had anything interesting to offer.
@@Gud-y2s Plenty of quality options , 350 and 500 has never been a category outside of the billion dollar marketing take over anyway . Two strokes for the Hard Enduro which is just Trials bike skill orientated big bike skills transfered, so yeah the 300 the only thing to be fair , shitty WP suspension is fine for 1st and second gears Trials riding races. Without ktms purchase orders for WP shite they would have been dead a longtime ago.
cheers mate, on both, Ive been doing tshirts in one way or anoter for years, even had my own screen print carousel when i was doing band stuff :-) thanks for the support, have a great week
Thank you BareBones! This story fits the idea that Asia still utilizes motorcycles for transportation, While they are primarily recreational elsewhere.. We may have passed the heyday of motorcycles 😅
Blaming interest rates in US is a poor excuse, the new bikes aren't as good and aren't as reliable as they were 10 years ago ,that's why people stopped buying them, I own 2 older KTM 300 that are still good bikes, I wouldn't buy a new one , motorcycle companies that are controlled by investors is never going to build a high quality motorcycle , it's more like a Chinese business and example that disposes a brand when it doesn't serve the investors, motorcycle riders are passionate people who love riding their bikes, when a motorcycle manufacturer looses that passion , they loose those passionate customers
Any co.s first responsibility is to its shareholders, the owners. And therefore its profitability is key. This can be acheived in many ways. One way is to make a good product, but not the only way. Just something to think about. Dead cats bounce too.
indeed they do, but a live cat making slow steady progress for the right reasons is more to my liking :-) i was having a conversation last night about CF Moto and Bajaj mopping up the shares while the price is low
KTM started the readjustment three years ago, they could see what was happening and began to make strategic partnerships and extricate themselves from several of their contracts such as the GasGas road racing program a long time ago. GasGas themselves were hardly a "great" brand, they were meaningless even at their height. MV is actually probably safe for the moment so long as luxury sales keep up in the supersport area, my local dealer (we are talking about the largest motorcycle dealer in Munich) has MV as a boutique brand alongside Husqvarna, CF Moto, Yamaha and Kawasaki. KTM will remain as the premier off-road brand, Husqvarna become a specialist hard-adventure brand if they survive, GasGas will die, Seeing which way the wind is blowing and reacting is something the British motorcycle industry should have done.
No wonder motorcycling as a whole is dying… When the original manufacturer sells out and becomes a brand like so much is nowadays, the pride goes and money making commodities step in.
Lets see why this might be happening. Pay my rent( mortgage), electricity, gas, food etc. or buy an over priced toy ( this goes for just about all brands of motorcycles and cars as well) that I don't really need instead of buying a nearly new one privately for a lot less or repairing the one I own. A lot of people just don't have the disposable income they had a few years ago. Also the fact that governments don't want them on their roads anymore doesn't help.
In 2004 I bought a new EXC 300 for 4240, they're over 10k now. In 2008 I bought a new 2008 GSXR for 8k. In that time wages have at best gone up 50%, but bikes have more than doubled.
KTM seems to be shitting on there own nest, I've never owned one and never will, they are overpriced, ugly and have terrible reliability and it not just the 790/890 but dates back to the early superdukes etc., they think the consumers are idiots,
@@markmiller5577 No, it's more about wanting clean air and less environmental pollution, which is something we should all strive for. Don't get me wrong, I love the inefficient combustion engine, but at the same time we ought to be considering the future of the planet. No, much of this is our own fault for wanting cheap. And by that I don't just mean the consumer, all the big sports fashion brands utilise dirt cheap Asian labour and funnels the grossly inflated mark-up into advertising via overpaid football players. Our industries are drying up because we've become this blind consumer society and the lack of protective measures that have allowed manufacturing to move to Asia (in particular China) where not only are wages lower, but environmental standards are lower. A few years back I was talking to a bike mechanic about just how bad the Chinese 125cc bikes were, and he predicted the incoming emissions rules would force them out of Europe because they hadn't learned how to manufacture EFI. Well guess what? They learned. The Chinese bought into European brands and took the knowledge to develop their own systems for production in China. Even some of the Japanese brands are using ever more Chinese manufacturing, suggesting that the Chinese are now able to produce more reliable machines. Western companies eyed up cheap production costs, destroying our own industries in the process, and now China is such an important economy our governments dare not do anything about Chinese imports as so much of what we have left relies on Chinese components, yet at the same time China heavily restricts market access for our own finished goods.
@@pauln6803 Western countries are being made poorer and manufacturing moved to India... Gas is still used to generate most of the power required, this used to manufacture electric cars , that are only an economical and efficient mode of transport if driven 400,000 miles ... Human movement will be restricted, people's disposable income will be drastically reduced, calories will be restricted, beef and lamb consumption reduced by 55 percent by 2028...
I got news for you, the same thing goes on in other companies when market trends occur. Unfortunately when demand goes down you need to adjust your costs to survive, it’s happening at Mercury Marine on the marine side of things right now.
In case anyone didn't notice, the economy of the world is in a downward spiral. Dirt bikes are going to be one of the luxury items where the sales will drop off.
Reliability, reliability, reliability. I have many vehicles the number one problem with all manufacturers of motorcycles and cars is absolutely nonexistent reliability.
This is what happens when companies have share holders, they want their money back. Then you have Europe and all its rules that make it uncompetitive with the rest of the world. Plus the bikes are to much money. We have just come out of a cost of living crisis and KTM are selling enduro bikes for more than 10 grand. These bikes take a lot of looking after, who has 10 grand to spend on a toy you use half a dozen times a year and throw down the side of a hill every time you ride. These bikes used to be cheap, not anymore. You can by an Honda crb600 for the same money or less.
MX bikes were never cheap. 15 years ago a new MX bike was 6k. If you compare them to the inflation rate, they are cheaper now than they have been for decades.
i produced this over 18 months ago now talking about that change th-cam.com/video/RGk7qCa4Ghc/w-d-xo.html 🙂Cheers for watching and for the comment mate. Ride Free 🙂
Penton finished because the exchange rate meant John Penton couldn't make a profit, so he switched to selling other brands where the profitability was viable. It's well documented, with interviews with the man himself.
High wage settlements in Europe is complete bullshit. Factory workers in europe today are making far less money compared to the overall financial situation than they have for decades. Also, the interest rates in Europe have risen fast and dramatic as well. My house loan interest have increased by more than 300%. I think it's sad news because KTM is the only brand that pushes and developes the offroad segment. The other brands are just making some alternative 10 to 20 years later. If any. I mean, where the 690 competitors, the 350 f and 2-strokes from the japanese brands? But the shift to China and India makes you consider other brands. For the hard enduro we still have Beta and Sherco for example. They are still family owned companies.
Indeed. The KTM brands are the only serious option if you want a road going supermoto. Every time the Japanese have bothered, it has resulted in the use of an outdated, wheezy old engine, a too heavy and soft chassis with poor brakes. The Yamaha Tenere 700 is another example of a sound platform that is compromised by weight and low spec components. Give it radially mounted brakes, some small suspension tweaks, trim some weight and offer a more road orientated option (19" front and tubeless wheels) alongside the current, more off road model. The radially mounted brake makes for easy disc diameter swaps, similar to how KTM offer enduro and supermoto models based on the same platform.
@@garnet4846 Right... Saying the Japanese could respond fairly easily to what KTM offers is shilling for KTM? Go back to yelling obscenities about peoples mothers on your PS5 Call of Duty marches kid.
You make some good points in this video, but you comments betray a bias that casts a shadow on your overall analysis. KTM has increased employment for years during the good times. Now that people are buying fewer bikes they have to cut back. Does that not make sense to you? You seem shocked that layoffs will happen at the Austria plant. Really? Reduced demand means reduced production, which means reduced staffing. Seems straightforward to me. And you imply the Pierer Group's "greed" is driving all these decisions. Pierer Group is not a non-profit company, correct? As a for-profit venture, their entire reason for existing is to make a profit. SMH.
couldn’t of said it better myself, people like this guy are the drains of society that want everything for fuck all and fuck the guy working to make it for them. the hypocrisy of this type of person is unbelievable
The strategy of producing niche, boutique motorcycles has never worked. The KTM naked lineup says it all, aesthetically cookie cutter bikes with engines that are either too powerful for the average rider, or are of weird and unfamiliar displacements (compared to other legacy brands), or are peaky and unforgiving. Not to mention a reputation for being unreliable, and with spotty dealer support.
@@DennisMerwood-xk8wp Ducati also makes "normal" bikes. The scramblers are their number on seller, then the monsters. The also make great adventure bikes. I don't know what point your trying to make.
Everybody seems to forget another and the most important factor in many of these manufacturer's struggles - the price of their products! There is only so many suckers and high hilled folks who can afford to change bikes at ever increasing prices. When myth of free markets was introduced, competition and demand were suppose to keep quality and prices of the products in check and as far as prices go, as demand increses -on downward spiral. However, we've been witnessing everything but! Greed is the problem #1.
KTM was subsidised by the Austrian government in 1999 to the tune of 7.3m eu. In 2018 the EIB approved a loan to KTM of 120m eu. Bajaj effectively saved KTM /Pierer with their stake, now 48%. They've always sailed very close to the wind, but somehow stayed afloat. Let's see how this plays out.
I have had several KTMs, mostly dirt, and they have been great bikes. I still have a 2008 990 Super Duke that I love to ride. It has been reliable. Sad about the changes in manufacturing locations. You blame the company but it is really due to the pathetic leadership of western countries that have driven up all costs, mainly via raising energy costs for their global warming panic, that forces the change of manufacturing location.
Management issues aside, I’ve owned/ridden most of the bikes popular for BDR-style riding, and to my eye the 690/701 remains unmatched in its service interval category. Sticker-shocking new, agreed, but $7Kish gets a 2018 garage queen.
i do have less of an issue with KTM than the PMG to be honest, not my favourite bikes, but to me the story is about the structure of the company and its need to feed the shareholders, and the demands of those shareholders
the whole industry is a mess. especially here in the uk. cost of license = insane, and you could be failed like i was for making a simple mistake on test so have to pay £200 for a retest. want a nice bike ??? well that depends on where you live and how many criminal scum bags have been allowed to roam the streets ... you get lucky and the insurance company has allowed you to own your dream bike so you pay £10k+ for bike and £1.5k for insurance ... 4 days later bike is stolen and insurance pays you half the bikes value and new insurance has doubled for your next bike, you give up and get a car or use public transport. that's the way i see it in the UK.
sad, but some truth there. the industry and the government could do much more. even all the fallicies around electric bikes are putting real owners off, and in the same breath they say we want to cut emissions, stick a few corks up their asses and we would have a whole lot less emissions
glad you enjoyed it mate 🙂 Theres plenty more on the channel, hope you will look around and find something your interested in. there is more on the website too. and there will be more to come. Cheers for watching.Hope you will climb aboard. Ride Free 🙂
The lower end models, aimed at Indian market as much as export are mostly fine, I ride a Bajaj built 401 Svart. I'm told that aspirational purchases in Asia are trending towards cars, not motorbikes, which then means only certain markets in the world are "hot" going forward. So like many, I think the focus needs to be quality at each price tier. I am looking forward to the CF Moto 450 Ibex invasion, they are lucky to have quad bike oriented dealers that are stepping up to sell and service in Canada. Perhaps the mid to high-end KTM need more engineering gestation and product at scale design improvements, ie simpler. I wonder where areall those great Husaberg "Ready To Race" engineers in this KTM story, I thought they led the design and engineering even today.
This, exactly. The overall environment is unsupportive of business that is in any way that is discretionary and not insubstantially priced. We’ve become a high fixed cost market where profit has been squeezed everywhere, most obviously housing & power.
The self appointed dictators in the EU are banning ICE motorbikes in the next decade, why wouldn't you move production out of Europe to where there is a thriving market.
Maybe im just lucky, but i have a 690 Enduro R and have ridden it very hard and have had bery good luck with it. Are the 690s made still made in Europe?
This is what you get when you put people whom formerly ran a budget coffee mug company in charge of a high end vehicle company and demand a 20% year over year increase in profits and the same parallel reduction in costs, something has to give, and it is usually quality that gets flushed down the toilet first.
They defiantly lost me as a customer. I bled orange, not because i hated the other brands but the 300xc was just a perfect bike for me. Ktm for over 24 years. Then a 2023 with a random bog i could not get rid of for 27 hours after it started at 20 hours. Ktm admitted they couldnt fix it unless it did it on the laptop. 3 dealers not wanting to really get involved after all the stuff I’ve already done, and i jump it a lot. Eventually it sent me to the hospital. The tbi is great until it’s not, and can be hard to troubleshoot some issues. Currently on a 2024 yz 250 and starting to bond, but i miss my 300 but will never buy another new one. Fuel injecting the 2T is too difficult. It has to fuel twice as much as the 4t and with oil. Looking around for a low hour carbed 300… i also think the Indian company that bought half the company in 2021 is partly to blame for ktm’s current expansion and QC issues. Pump and dump…
Good presentation of KTM's problems. I have owned a SDGT for a few years now while I love the engine, suspension and brakes there have been several very annoying issues that KTM seemingly refuse the do anything to resove. Period. If you want people to buy your products then take care of those who have done so in the past. Don't blame interest rates for your sales decline. I have never met a KTM owner who was happy with their bike or KTM as a philosophy. Me, I am planning on selling my KTM soon (if that's at all possible) and will not be buying another KTM.
I also have a Gen2 SD GT (amongst other KTMs) and its a phenomenal machine - Most people who I have met who own KTM love them in my considerable experience and I ride with guys who have SDRs that are over 10 years old for example - So whats your story? I mean when you have enough disposable income to buy an SDGT, why would you keep a bike you didnt like for "a few years" if its been so bad?! Time to trade up on that Versys surely?!
Thanks for asking. I do love the SDGT, it's a fantastic piece of kit. Puts a grin on my face every time I ride it. BTW I live in the mountains of NC and it is a brilliant bike for ripping the twisties!! My issue has been that all too often the "Race On" refuses to actually fire up the computer and bike. This happens randomly on my KTM and is extremely annoying not to mention embarrassing when riding with others. It will sometimes take 15 or 20 minutes to eventually decide to come back on. The bike has never left me stranded, but I have this odd feeling every time I go to ride like "I wonder if it's going to turn on". Not good. It actually did it at the dealership one time (thankfully) and the tech had to "re-boot" the computer to get it to turn on. KTM forums are full of people who have had the same issue. There is a well known UK magazine that this happened to out on the road, during the test, and they could not get the bike to on. Has to have the bike picked up. Anyways, don't want to waffle on but KTM refuse to acknowledge or fix the problem. It could be the bike is sensing the steering lock is on when it is not. It could be any number of things. The newer update model now seem to have a different "Race On" system / button. Bottom line is I just don't trust the bike will turn on every time and while I love riding the bike I will not be buying another. Looking at going back to a Triumph or Jap bike. BTW I have had numerous other sensor issues, warnings, etc which to me just modern motorcycles acting up. Not turning on is a very annoying problem. Lastly and by no means any less annoying is the seat. Some people are ok with it, some hate it. I am in the hate category. The stock seat tortures my derier within 30 minutes. The aftermarket ERGO seat is unbelievably even more uncomfortable. How KTM can produce a sports tourer with such and uncomfortable seat is beyond me. I have to use cycling shorts and an air Hawk bag ti ride half a day in semi comfort. And nobody makes and custom seat for it that I have found...... Well you asked. There are my issues!! I wanted a bike with the modern tech, suspension, fantastic brakes and 179 hp and I got it. But KTM not on my future radar.....
Both of my Austrian built KTM’s have been 100 % reliable ( 640/1190 Adv) . The trouble is that they decide to still charge European prices for bikes made in China and India (and/or major components ).
To be fair I get the concern regarding European regulations an bureaucracy. I'm an engineer in South Africa and even here it is getting stifling so I can only imagine how bad it must be in the first world.
For me there is just 1 simple feature I need in a car or motorcycle - reliability! Toyota has it, Yamaha mostly has it, KTM does not care (so I have had more than 10 new motorcycles, never a KTM)
such a shame, i have an 890 duke r, and it's just a fantastic bike, but I'm always worried about the cam issue and general reliability, and now of course it's reduced value due in no small part to KTM not getting on top of things quickly..Word spreads very fast in the bike buying public and I can see this company seriously nose diving
B.S. - Sure, interest rates aren't great, but sales definitely suffer in the USA because no one wants to buy from a company that ships engines with cam issues. I was looking hard at KTM adv bikes last year, as I have an enduro model now. The ADV bikes already had electronic, brake, fuel pump issues - that cam issue is a monumental engineering/QA failure. I waited for a while to see if KTM came around, but they just kept failing. KTM, and all related companies is completely off my list for at least a few years. They also don't have any entry-level, lower-grade dirt bikes for folks starting out - but maybe they figure they can't do that and maintain quality enough (they can't reliy on riders as much to adhere religiously to excessive maintenance on a cheaper model) to make one last for 6 months.
I believe the opposite actually. Produce more under Chinese industrial production . Sad to say, but European development coupled with Chinese engineering and large scale production is what has been reality for about 10-15 years now. In the beginning Chinese manufacturers copied European design. Badly. Then they delivered 5 copies of the same machine at a lower price as for one European unit. Then they started buying out European engineers and companies. Nowadays they become masters in engineering and pushing to large scale and with largely available first class Chinese engineers, they just get better and better. That’s a reality. I’ve seen small companies loose all their value due to niche manufacturing once equivalent technology level being produced for almost nothing in India or china. Absolutely no surprise. Western European economy is dead. No one can afford its production cost for the masses in the long run. Inflation, wages, governments. A lot needs to change over here.
@@os6219 I mean fewer models of engine / electronics rather than volume. Look at Honda , they rarely design a new engine and when they do, it is tested thoroughly.
@@nickclarkukthat won’t happen, unfortunately. It like Apple’s (or any other manufacturer) service or subscription business. It’s what makes them money.
@@os6219 Think there's an additional mechanism at play in this case: Euro manufacturers like KTM went to asia - in this case India - to cut costs - And asian manufacturers did what all emerging economies do and captured the tech to evolve faster at very low cost
Pierre Mobility don't make bicycles, they just rebadge those from other manufacturers as my son has proven by removing stickers off what was supposedly a GasGas eBike (and turned out to be a bad purchase !) Motorcycle mechanics know SFA about setting up eBikes!
I want I wanted a Husqvarna they talked me out of it the shops on bettas they said the beta is a better bike and it was $4,000 cheaper and they warrantied every issue with it I'm glad I bought the beta it is a very nice motorcycle they are the original owners of that company since 1909
USA Husky and GG salesman here. We can't give away either brand right now. Selling both at or below dealer cost just to get them off the flooring interest. No luck. GasGas are so firkin ugly in 2024 nobody touches them. We have one 2025 Husky and ZERO Husky or GG on order. Sad. With overproduction, every shop in the USA is blowing them out devaluing the brand. The used KTM, Husky and GG market has crashed in the USA. That 15 hour, year old bike is worth a little over half what you paid OTD if a dealer will even take it in. Crazy world in motorcycle game these days. Glad I have BETA's to sell.
thanks for adding this mate, prices are down here but not quite that much, sounds terrible, i have heard of dealers refusing part exes on the 790 890 though so it isnt good, fingers crossed with the Beta's, those 400's do stand out for me when you compare them to the Triumph and RE, good luck mate
I switched to Beta in 2021 and am very happy.They are one of the best selling dirt and dual sport bikes in upper Michigan now.6 month warranty and often cover stuff after warranty ends.The KTM dealer has large price cuts and still not selling well.I have a Africa Twin for adventure and Beta 300 for offroad.I looked at KTM for adventure bike but so many problems with them.
I think their offroad bikes are doing just fine, we've always had KTM's and they have been very good to us. These Asian bikes seem to be less reliable and the market is closing in. I think they're doing a fine job with making offroad (not adventure) bikes, just hopefully they can get their business straightened out
Can we please get an update on how MV has been doing under Pierer Mobility as of recent months/weeks? You just barely touched on them in this video. I've been in a holding pattern for the last few months on whether I will give my local MV dealer my $500 deposit for my 921S with a Jan 2026 estimated delivery. I'm deeply concerned that Pierer Mobility will put the squeeze on MV to cut costs on design, R&D, parts quality, and especially assembly quality. I'm sure it will have a true MV engine, but that's not much assurance of a quality product overall when delivered. For NOW, MVs being delivered to dealerships are fantastic. But Jan 2026 is a long time from now, and even tho MV got all of their US delivery 921S VINs approved by the DOT months ago, at the same time they decided to push the delivery dates from Jan 2025 to Jan 2026 according to my local dealer. So yeah, LOTS of time for Pierer Mobility to step in and screw things up between now and then. Thanks!!
@@emptymannull I would love to mate but had very little concrete information other than (by layout and dimensions) working out that the new cf Moto 675 does seem to be the mv 675 engine I’ve heard a lot about more investment but nothing I can put down as a definite “this has happened” I have been told production is up and running but not by any of my contacts there who have only said they can’t say anything at the minute and I can’t even get them to give me a why. If we go by precedents they will keep Italy going for at least a year or 2. But if there has been more investment as I previously said there would be. PMG are now well and truly in control and so baja will be prime movers in any decisions and will likely be supported by cf Moto in what comes next. The only thing the Chinese and Indians don’t argue about is money. I would guess an initial 3 year plan has been laid down to consolidate the investment and after 2 they will look at what comes next. Hope that helps a bit. Sorry it isn’t more solid
@@barebonesmc That's does help. I think then I may move forward on my deposit, follow things closely, and cross my fingers things stay stable in Italy thru my delivery. Thanks so much!!
@@emptymannull i dont know where you are, but with market prices as they are, would it be worth looking 2nd hand? they do come up and prices are stupidly low at the minute here
They got spread out some what with all the brands of basically the same bikes. This is not a death sentence for KTM and its owners but hopefully they adapt.
@@thepub245 see previous video 😊 yes I believe it is the oil delivery to the cams. But nevertheless it is the cams and/or cam bearing surfaces that suffer. Yet the cf Moto cams don’t seem to be suffering the same wear. One theory being the lower state of tune saves the cf Moto engine. But I’m not arguing for or against that until I know more
@@barebonesmchow do you know CF Moto don’t suffer ? Where are the stats - they haven’t sold any creditable numbers in Europe , you are talking none sense as usual because you have some emotional little tantrum about KTM, they really hot under your skin 😉 the vast majority of customers are happy with their KTM products , look in any competition paddock and who is number one by far and for a reason - they make the best competition bikes that are as reliable and generally more reliable than any competition
@@orange1666the quality control on the drilling or casting of the oil delivery galleries has obviously gone amiss somewhere on the 790 and 890 engines. Its either the design or there is bad workmanship or both. The fact that KTM hasnt addressed it is not great.
Sales and profits probably down for many European, USA and Japanese brands. Global downturn and reduced sales after Covid boom. Probably lots of job losses across many brands. Chinese smart timing, now offering Cheaper deals and taking more market share.
I didn't not buy a KTM/Husky due to high interest rates. I didn't buy it because of the risk of getting a lemon, which is quite high. I'd love to have a 890 Adventure R or Norden 901 Expedition, but they need to be proven to be as reliable as Yamaha's Tenere 700 and Honda's Africa Twin. Once KTM has that reliability, part availability, ease of fixing, etc. then I would love to have one of their bikes. But until then my blood will stay blue. Reliability is #1 for adventure bikes. Slightly better performance and electronics doesn't matter if it fails or is glitchy and complicated to fix. My local Husky/KTM dealer was honest and told me about all the issues with the 890/901's. The same dealer also sells Honda, and would not recommend me a KTM/Husky if I cared for reliability. The 890's and 901's suffered from a lot of electrical issues, clogged injectors due to fuel tanks disintegrating from the inside, leaking tubeless rims, unbalanced rims that cannot be fixed, cam problems after 15000-30000km, etc. No thanks... I want to spend my riding season on the road, not waiting for warranty servicing and parts.
i have to agree, if you havent seen them, the other videos do have other bits of the bigger story. Cheers for watching and for the comment mate. Ride Free 🙂
Lets’s be honest. Europa and the US have not been leading in the motorcycle market since Japan stepped in. The renaissance of European brands can very well be explained by the Japanese having more serious things to consider. It can also be claimed that many a since then re-established brand has been financed with Asian money. We’ll simply have to get used to the fact that our markets are no longer the driving forces in motorcycle land. And strangely enough this cloud actually has a bit of a silver lining. The ever more realistic, less over the top motorcycles which are introduced nowadays may not have been designed for us but at least they take us back a bit to the essence of motorcycling, assuming we are prepared to look beyond the fact that most of them are jawninspiring parallel twins accessed via a video game. 😉😁
@@barebonesmc In the car world real switches are coming back because people are getting fed up with having to evade through menus. Equally the “select your gears with a paddle” fad already passed in sportcarcountry years ago. Yet the whole motorcycle market goes apecrazy over DCT etc. My prediction for the next stupid craze is electric eybrowwarmers. 😉😁
Mhmm, somehow I've heard that before. Production costs in Europe have risen. So I outsource my production to India or China. Well, produces a lot of unemployed people in Europe but, it is what it is. In Asia I can produce more than 40% cheaper and ... because I don't lower the final price ... I can calculate a much higher profit. So ... produce cheaply in Asia and then sell my product for a high price in Europe, to the very unemployed I have caused (find the mistake).
Reviewers say KTM and Ducatis are great! People trust them and buy them. T hey ride them and the completely opposite happens. Bikes are fragile, maintenance is high and people get fed-up. Reviewers say hondas are "boring". People dont want to own a "boring" bike so they trust them. Truth is, no one has invented more than honda, not even close. Also, they have about 50% market share. They produce over 20 million bikes per year, ducati produces 50000. Are hondas 200 times better than ducatis? Perhaps no, but they have 200 times money to invent new things and make their bikes 200 times more reliable than ducati or ktm.
Should stand by their waranies, acknowledge their mistakes,fix their parts supply and stop treating their customers like they are idiots.will make everything fine
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
I have a 2007 ktm. I'm not terribly opposed to Chinese products but I'm not paying European prices for a Chinese bike.
i have less issues with where they are built than how they are built and serviced to be honest
@@barebonesmc ktm does not support their dealers in the US market. Dealers are are left apologizing to their customers for not being able to properly service end users.
Exactly my thoughts. KTM wanted it both ways. Most motos in the world are Chinese but a third of the price
Unfortunately they are chinese is one way or another
If you want Loyal customers, Honor your warranties and fix bikes with bad camshafts ect.
but they don't care about customers, only about money.
simple 🙂
It's funny, I saw a TH-cam video about their camshaft issues with the 790/890 engines. How the hell can you manufacture a machine with a "soft" camshaft? I'll tell you how, allow those Commie Chins at CF Moto to build your bikes! I'm sorry but if I'm buying an "Austrian" motorcycle, I don't want it made in China!
No joke, I had a senior customer service rep from KTM Temecula, CA tell me that my EFI problems with my 690 were now my problems as I now own the motorcycle, not ktm!?!?! Having been in customer service for 50 years, having owned my own motorcycle shop for 5 years, I was in shock. After that exchange, while seeking support, I vowed never to own another KTM.
A few points:
1. Businesses exist to make profits. I want my dealer and motorcycle manufacturer to make profits. However, I do not want them to lower quality to achieve profits. This is not only a KTM problem but also a BMW problem.
2. KTM dealers do not allow test rides in the USA, which significantly impacts sales more than interest rates.
3. They do have a point regarding EU regulations.
100%
FWIW, Test rides must vary by location and dealers in the USA. My local KTM dealer in Texas does allow test rides for a least KTM and Husqvarna street legal bikes (I can't speak for the other brands as I have only tested these two, but I assume that it would be the same for others as well), and even allow limited off road testing out on a field close to the shop. For the dirt bikes, they have periodic bike days where you can test ride KTM, Husqvarna, and Gas Gas bikes on a motocross track (These are sponsored events).
My local dealer was more than happy to allow me a test ride on the duke 990, I haven't because I don't trust their reliability.
Total BS.. KTM DOES allow test rides in the USA… Bikeweek Daytona ..
If you want test rides then you should pay for that experience $150 for 20 minute ride and then that is applied to purchase price if you buy. I bet 80% of people take free test rides just for the experience with no intent to buy. As a buyer I don't want an abused test ride bike otherwise I would buy used or expect huge discount. The other point is there are plenty of online resources and videos at nauseum to assist your buying decision. I have purchased 4 new bikes in past 13 years without a single test ride on this basis. I decided what I wanted and got what I expected. It isn't rocket science unless you are a squid.
As always with most companies, management sucks and the factory workers are paying their incompetence.
So true😂
I work at KTM , and you have no idea how right you are! Managed ruined this company!
Corporate profits being a priority over product quality will be the death of more than motorcycle manufacturers. Its disappointing as a society we stand back and let it happen.
It's also a shrinking market as it's getting ever more expensive to start riding in Europe.
With the rise of Asia and the steady decline of well paid manufacturing jobs (relative to other unskilled work), we are seeing the already rich continue to compound their wealth whilst everyone else gets squeezed.
That might sound like I'm an advocate of Marxist theory, but it's happening.
You don't have to be an advocate of something to see it play out in the world.
It's across the board with everything these days. Corporatism will be the downfall of western society.
Price of a bass boats +$70,000, price for dirtbike +$10,000 , Price for pick up truck +$50,000, Price for gas ridiculous, .....etc etc etc. IS debt $38trillion, World Wide Inflation out of control
Great deals are around the corner. Repo rate for autos is above 10%. I'm sure boats are even higher.
A good point well put mate 🙂Cheers for the comment. Ride Free 🙂
Dunno...
Pay cash for everything.
Don't owe anyone a cent
Start making reliable bikes then.
A good point well put mate 🙂Cheers for the comment. Ride Free 🙂
Came here to make the exact same point. Great bikes, but too risky to buy them. Too many horror stories.
Ones that don’t sound like they’re shaking a box of rocks when running & require service intervals every other ride.
They don't even need to do that. Just stand by the bikes during the warranty period. New bike buyers don't generally care much about reliability. What they do care about is if the bike breaks it gets fixed quickly and at no cost to them.
Not a good point at all - KTM have proved beyond doubt in competition they are one of the strongest and most reliable brands - the multitude of championships prove this without doubt and only a fool can question that
The future of motorcycles looks bad enough but it looks even worse for KTM.
@@seans8184 The future of the planet , rests on the populations being restricted on movement....watch it develop
@@markmiller5577and yet people are still too stupid to understand that.
Let me guess what doesn't goes down?
Management board salaries😂
100%
and bonuses
And shareholder dividends.
You both got it 😊😊
Creep before crawling, crawl before walking, walk before running, run knowing your limits.
Sprinting is and always will be a short race.
That's not the problem here, KTM have been around for a long time and know how to make motorcycles. The problem is KTM prioritising profit over quality (reliability) and their customer base (loyalty).
@@lionelcook8522 not necessarily accurate. The name has been around for decades, but it has been owned by more than one entity over the years, which usually indicates poor decision making at management.
all valid points 🙂 perhaps we need to start differentiating more between KTM the company and Pierer Mobility and the KTM AG group
@@lionelcook8522 if their goal is profit, then they need to learn how to actually make bikes. These shits have rocketship prices and horse manure quality.
That is the problem. I knew when they dove off head first no limits in 2012 on a complete new bike just to lure dungey over. I knew they were going to sink at some point. Then they did the new model every year and add in making 8 million different models and factory editions. When you have the other 3 japanese brands selling large numbers with half the investment. 4 year model cycle and minimum models. If not for redbull. There would be no mx team in the U.S.@@lionelcook8522
Maybe it's just me, but over 10k for a dirt only 250 is insane. Especially when Triumph juat released its sold 50k+ of its 400 line.
its a different market, and to compare, Triumphs unproven 250MX bike is pretty damn pricey too 🙂
@@barebonesmc look at the engine on triumph 250 lol. its a ktm engine. loads of companies have shared engines. bmw c400 scooter is a chinese scooter dressed up.
Like in the automotive world, if you price your product higher than your target market can afford, you'll outstrip your food supply. Basic economics. Unlike in most of the world, in the US, bikes are a luxury product not daily transport for most people so when budgets are tight, bikes are a logical place to cut. Even basic scooters are expensive here. If they shift design to the 3rd world along with production, then their product won't justify the price - will be a self-feeding decline
$12,000 plus for a new KTM MX bike in the US is crazy. In one year they are worth $7500 or less. people can’t take that loss
Every MX bike depreciates horribly. I bought one this year that was 9 months old with 1.5 hours for $3k less than the original owner. It's just the nature of the market.
the 790/890 isnt an MX bike though, although to be fair, all new bikes depreciate too quick for me lol
We don't even take them in on trade right now. It sucks for all involved.
@barebonesmc The 790/890
KTM started going down a slippery road.
By introducing Software unlocking for hardware you've already purchased.
A terrible business strategy
And worse is a subscription fee
I am really worried about the Motorcycle industry as a whole. I might be wrong but I think the industry is in a depression. Motogp is a Ducati fest, reliability issues with KTM, Harley Davidson is a joke and all kinds of other issues.
Here in Perth Western Australia I found it hard if not impossible to get parts for my motocross bike's. Repairs and maintenance well that's depressing, I've even had dealership's here tell me ' we don't fix em - we only sell em'..
So I bought a lathe, milling machine and 20 thousand dollars worth of tools 🔧 Business is booming for me repairing, machining a fixing people's bike's
The world economy is in a recession. There is little KTM can do about that.
good on you mate, and i agree, a big part of the problem is the use, abuse and throw away mentality, short termism. and good luck to you
Terrible reliability issues and dealers are the reason new
KTM 's don't sell.
A fair point lol. They still have their fans though 😊😊
They gotta improve quality. Cheese cams are killing the adventure line up trust
It should be said though, there’s no good alternative to companies being “profit driven”. Profits are the reward for risk taking, vision and industriousness, after all.
But there is a great alternative to bureaucracy, overregulation, inflation, onerous taxation, self destructive monetary policy etc… all of the outcomes of bad government, which drive companies to chase short term profits rather than long lasting stability.
It’s fun to criticize Perrier, though all they’ve done is make a profit selling bad motorcycles. But where will good motorcycles come from, if governments around the globe can’t figure out how to create a good business environment… good for companies and for consumers?
So no cuts for top people, lay off workers in Europe and ship production to China and India, capitalism marches forward!
Business as usual 😭
Name 1 motorcycle brand from a communist or socialist country.
CF moto, welcome 😊@@therawlifefamily
@@therawlifefamily kove and ural
@@therawlifefamily Thats becouse the predatory capitalist brands bought them.
Went back to Japanese bikes and couldn't be happier. My first KTM was back in1984. Due to a reoccurring cracking shifting fork issue on that bike, and random neutrals, I suffered a bad crash and fractured my spine. I was lucky and healed up without paralysis. In my view, nothing compares to the "less sexy" Japanese motorcycles.
Thoroughly deserved for a brand that treats it's customers who have problems with their bikes so badly.
A good point well put mate 🙂Cheers for the comment. Ride Free 🙂
If I was buying a bike with a 'K' in its name, it would be a Kawasaki.
Or Suzuki
@@paulyflyer8154 or a Hodaka
🤡🤡🤡
Well we are all different. Kawasaki is a brand that i never considered comparing to KTM. Unless a 250 or 450 mx. What Kawasaki bikes are you comparing to the 690 or the adventure bikes, the 2-stroke enduro bikes, the 350 or 500 exc? I could buy japanese if they had anything interesting to offer.
@@Gud-y2s Plenty of quality options , 350 and 500 has never been a category outside of the billion dollar marketing take over anyway . Two strokes for the Hard Enduro which is just Trials bike skill orientated big bike skills transfered, so yeah the 300 the only thing to be fair , shitty WP suspension is fine for 1st and second gears Trials riding races. Without ktms purchase orders for WP shite they would have been dead a longtime ago.
Well done Ian, your passion for motorcycling shines through brilliantly.
PS. Your t-shirts are top notch.
cheers mate, on both, Ive been doing tshirts in one way or anoter for years, even had my own screen print carousel when i was doing band stuff :-) thanks for the support, have a great week
Thank you BareBones! This story fits the idea that Asia still utilizes motorcycles for transportation, While they are primarily recreational elsewhere..
We may have passed the heyday of motorcycles 😅
or we may be heading to a new one, only time will tell with that. the market is changing for sure
Blaming interest rates in US is a poor excuse, the new bikes aren't as good and aren't as reliable as they were 10 years ago ,that's why people stopped buying them, I own 2 older KTM 300 that are still good bikes, I wouldn't buy a new one , motorcycle companies that are controlled by investors is never going to build a high quality motorcycle , it's more like a Chinese business and example that disposes a brand when it doesn't serve the investors, motorcycle riders are passionate people who love riding their bikes, when a motorcycle manufacturer looses that passion , they loose those passionate customers
A good point well put mate 🙂Cheers for the comment. Ride Free 🙂
Thank you for an excellent informative video.
glad you enjoyed it mate 🙂 Theres plenty more on the channel. this is an evolving one, hope youll climb aboard. Cheers for watching. Ride Free 🙂
Any co.s first responsibility is to its shareholders, the owners. And therefore its profitability is key. This can be acheived in many ways. One way is to make a good product, but not the only way. Just something to think about. Dead cats bounce too.
indeed they do, but a live cat making slow steady progress for the right reasons is more to my liking :-) i was having a conversation last night about CF Moto and Bajaj mopping up the shares while the price is low
KTM started the readjustment three years ago, they could see what was happening and began to make strategic partnerships and extricate themselves from several of their contracts such as the GasGas road racing program a long time ago. GasGas themselves were hardly a "great" brand, they were meaningless even at their height.
MV is actually probably safe for the moment so long as luxury sales keep up in the supersport area, my local dealer (we are talking about the largest motorcycle dealer in Munich) has MV as a boutique brand alongside Husqvarna, CF Moto, Yamaha and Kawasaki.
KTM will remain as the premier off-road brand, Husqvarna become a specialist hard-adventure brand if they survive, GasGas will die,
Seeing which way the wind is blowing and reacting is something the British motorcycle industry should have done.
Boeing tried putting shareholder profits first, look how that worked out for them...
@@jimtitt3571
It's looking like MV came with a lot more financial baggage than it was made out to at the time of its sale to Pierer Mobility group.
some good points well put mate 🙂 I did start writing about it a couple of years ago too to be fair 🙂Cheers for the comment. Ride Free 🙂
Interesting.. Ride Free !!!
glad you enjoyed it mate 🙂 Theres plenty more on the channel. hope youll climb aboard. Cheers for watching. have a great weekend 🙂
No wonder motorcycling as a whole is dying… When the original manufacturer sells out and becomes a brand like so much is nowadays, the pride goes and money making commodities step in.
couldnt agree more mate
Interesting video. Add on the camshaft debacle and it’s not looking great for ktm. Maybe the 390 adv R will be a big seller for them
there was some pics of 390 cam issues on the facebook page recently too, although im not sure if it was a one off
Lets see why this might be happening. Pay my rent( mortgage), electricity, gas, food etc. or buy an over priced toy ( this goes for just about all brands of motorcycles and cars as well) that I don't really need instead of buying a nearly new one privately for a lot less or repairing the one I own. A lot of people just don't have the disposable income they had a few years ago. Also the fact that governments don't want them on their roads anymore doesn't help.
all factors for sure mate, 🙂Cheers for watching. Ride Free 🙂
In 2004 I bought a new EXC 300 for 4240, they're over 10k now. In 2008 I bought a new 2008 GSXR for 8k. In that time wages have at best gone up 50%, but bikes have more than doubled.
KTM seems to be shitting on there own nest, I've never owned one and never will, they are overpriced, ugly and have terrible reliability and it not just the 790/890 but dates back to the early superdukes etc., they think the consumers are idiots,
Climate policy to shut big manufacturing
@@markmiller5577 Smells more likely to me too
@@markmiller5577
No, it's more about wanting clean air and less environmental pollution, which is something we should all strive for.
Don't get me wrong, I love the inefficient combustion engine, but at the same time we ought to be considering the future of the planet.
No, much of this is our own fault for wanting cheap.
And by that I don't just mean the consumer, all the big sports fashion brands utilise dirt cheap Asian labour and funnels the grossly inflated mark-up into advertising via overpaid football players.
Our industries are drying up because we've become this blind consumer society and the lack of protective measures that have allowed manufacturing to move to Asia (in particular China) where not only are wages lower, but environmental standards are lower.
A few years back I was talking to a bike mechanic about just how bad the Chinese 125cc bikes were, and he predicted the incoming emissions rules would force them out of Europe because they hadn't learned how to manufacture EFI.
Well guess what? They learned.
The Chinese bought into European brands and took the knowledge to develop their own systems for production in China.
Even some of the Japanese brands are using ever more Chinese manufacturing, suggesting that the Chinese are now able to produce more reliable machines.
Western companies eyed up cheap production costs, destroying our own industries in the process, and now China is such an important economy our governments dare not do anything about Chinese imports as so much of what we have left relies on Chinese components, yet at the same time China heavily restricts market access for our own finished goods.
@@pauln6803 Western countries are being made poorer and manufacturing moved to India...
Gas is still used to generate most of the power required, this used to manufacture electric cars , that are only an economical and efficient mode of transport if driven 400,000 miles ...
Human movement will be restricted, people's disposable income will be drastically reduced, calories will be restricted, beef and lamb consumption reduced by 55 percent by 2028...
@@pauln6803these comments are environmental pollution.
The World Economy is in Severe contraction and the motorbikes will not escape the overall scenario of a downturn if not recession and crisis.
some of the world more than others 🙂
I got news for you, the same thing goes on in other companies when market trends occur. Unfortunately when demand goes down you need to adjust your costs to survive, it’s happening at Mercury Marine on the marine side of things right now.
40 yrs off-roading, never had one. Don't want one. I see them fail too often and nothing silly, fatal fails.
Agree, as an expat in Thailand, there was little choice KTM or Gasgas. I bought Gasgas and no issues
I have a 2022 350xcwf, far better than my yz250fx
@@billshuey7422 That's the same thing.
@@billshuey7422 wait until you find out who makes gasgas.... They are just a more budget KTM
I still have my 2005 husson which is one of the best bikes I ever bought
Great video. Keep them coming👍👍👍👍👍
🙂Cheers for watching and for the comment mate. what were your favourite bits? Ride Free 🙂
I really like my last model Husqvarna bikes. I hope KTM doesn’t drag down the brand.
me too mate
The old 990 is a great bike. Go over one and you can get 150-300k out of them.
In case anyone didn't notice, the economy of the world is in a downward spiral. Dirt bikes are going to be one of the luxury items where the sales will drop off.
Reliability, reliability, reliability. I have many vehicles the number one problem with all manufacturers of motorcycles and cars is absolutely nonexistent reliability.
This is what happens when companies have share holders, they want their money back. Then you have Europe and all its rules that make it uncompetitive with the rest of the world. Plus the bikes are to much money. We have just come out of a cost of living crisis and KTM are selling enduro bikes for more than 10 grand. These bikes take a lot of looking after, who has 10 grand to spend on a toy you use half a dozen times a year and throw down the side of a hill every time you ride. These bikes used to be cheap, not anymore. You can by an Honda crb600 for the same money or less.
i think relevent points, i would add, wanting money back is less of an issue than wanting a bigger chunk faster. no long term philosophy
MX bikes were never cheap. 15 years ago a new MX bike was 6k. If you compare them to the inflation rate, they are cheaper now than they have been for decades.
You could say the same about Ducati bikes but they are doing well .
A sign of what's getting ready to happen to a lot of motor companies.
i produced this over 18 months ago now talking about that change th-cam.com/video/RGk7qCa4Ghc/w-d-xo.html 🙂Cheers for watching and for the comment mate. Ride Free 🙂
Penton finished because the exchange rate meant John Penton couldn't make a profit, so he switched to selling other brands where the profitability was viable. It's well documented, with interviews with the man himself.
Sales went down to poor quality and high interest.
informative video. Thank u.
glad you enjoyed it mate. Theres plenty more on the channel. hope youll climb aboard. Cheers for watching. Ride Free 🙂
High wage settlements in Europe is complete bullshit. Factory workers in europe today are making far less money compared to the overall financial situation than they have for decades. Also, the interest rates in Europe have risen fast and dramatic as well. My house loan interest have increased by more than 300%. I think it's sad news because KTM is the only brand that pushes and developes the offroad segment. The other brands are just making some alternative 10 to 20 years later. If any. I mean, where the 690 competitors, the 350 f and 2-strokes from the japanese brands? But the shift to China and India makes you consider other brands. For the hard enduro we still have Beta and Sherco for example. They are still family owned companies.
Indeed.
The KTM brands are the only serious option if you want a road going supermoto.
Every time the Japanese have bothered, it has resulted in the use of an outdated, wheezy old engine, a too heavy and soft chassis with poor brakes.
The Yamaha Tenere 700 is another example of a sound platform that is compromised by weight and low spec components.
Give it radially mounted brakes, some small suspension tweaks, trim some weight and offer a more road orientated option (19" front and tubeless wheels) alongside the current, more off road model.
The radially mounted brake makes for easy disc diameter swaps, similar to how KTM offer enduro and supermoto models based on the same platform.
@@pauln6803you sound like you collect a cheque from KTM.
@@garnet4846
Right...
Saying the Japanese could respond fairly easily to what KTM offers is shilling for KTM?
Go back to yelling obscenities about peoples mothers on your PS5 Call of Duty marches kid.
You make some good points in this video, but you comments betray a bias that casts a shadow on your overall analysis. KTM has increased employment for years during the good times. Now that people are buying fewer bikes they have to cut back. Does that not make sense to you? You seem shocked that layoffs will happen at the Austria plant. Really? Reduced demand means reduced production, which means reduced staffing. Seems straightforward to me. And you imply the Pierer Group's "greed" is driving all these decisions. Pierer Group is not a non-profit company, correct? As a for-profit venture, their entire reason for existing is to make a profit. SMH.
💥💯👍
couldn’t of said it better myself, people like this guy are the drains of society that want everything for fuck all and fuck the guy working to make it for them. the hypocrisy of this type of person is unbelievable
The strategy of producing niche, boutique motorcycles has never worked. The KTM naked lineup says it all, aesthetically cookie cutter bikes with engines that are either too powerful for the average rider, or are of weird and unfamiliar displacements (compared to other legacy brands), or are peaky and unforgiving. Not to mention a reputation for being unreliable, and with spotty dealer support.
What a load of BS, go away fanboy.
"The strategy of producing niche, boutique motorcycles has never worked." Nobody must have told Ducati that!
@@petebusch9069good advice for yourself
@@DennisMerwood-xk8wp Ducati also makes "normal" bikes. The scramblers are their number on seller, then the monsters. The also make great adventure bikes. I don't know what point your trying to make.
@@petebusch9069 That you are full of bovine excrement~
Everybody seems to forget another and the most important factor in many of these manufacturer's struggles - the price of their products! There is only so many suckers and high hilled folks who can afford to change bikes at ever increasing prices. When myth of free markets was introduced, competition and demand were suppose to keep quality and prices of the products in check and as far as prices go, as demand increses -on downward spiral. However, we've been witnessing everything but! Greed is the problem #1.
hit the nail on the head mate
KTM was subsidised by the Austrian government in 1999 to the tune of 7.3m eu. In 2018 the EIB approved a loan to KTM of 120m eu. Bajaj effectively saved KTM /Pierer with their stake, now 48%.
They've always sailed very close to the wind, but somehow stayed afloat. Let's see how this plays out.
That somehow is taxpayer money. Corporate welfare
@@garnet4846 Well, the state is not coming with a gift but with a medium-term loan.
I have had several KTMs, mostly dirt, and they have been great bikes. I still have a 2008 990 Super Duke that I love to ride. It has been reliable. Sad about the changes in manufacturing locations. You blame the company but it is really due to the pathetic leadership of western countries that have driven up all costs, mainly via raising energy costs for their global warming panic, that forces the change of manufacturing location.
For me it’s less about where they are manufactured than HOW 😊 the reality is many of the engines affected are built in Austria
Management issues aside, I’ve owned/ridden most of the bikes popular for BDR-style riding, and to my eye the 690/701 remains unmatched in its service interval category.
Sticker-shocking new, agreed, but $7Kish gets a 2018 garage queen.
i do have less of an issue with KTM than the PMG to be honest, not my favourite bikes, but to me the story is about the structure of the company and its need to feed the shareholders, and the demands of those shareholders
the whole industry is a mess. especially here in the uk. cost of license = insane, and you could be failed like i was for making a simple mistake on test so have to pay £200 for a retest. want a nice bike ??? well that depends on where you live and how many criminal scum bags have been allowed to roam the streets ... you get lucky and the insurance company has allowed you to own your dream bike so you pay £10k+ for bike and £1.5k for insurance ... 4 days later bike is stolen and insurance pays you half the bikes value and new insurance has doubled for your next bike, you give up and get a car or use public transport. that's the way i see it in the UK.
sad, but some truth there. the industry and the government could do much more. even all the fallicies around electric bikes are putting real owners off, and in the same breath they say we want to cut emissions, stick a few corks up their asses and we would have a whole lot less emissions
Thanks for the coverage! 👍
glad you enjoyed it mate 🙂 Theres plenty more on the channel, hope you will look around and find something your interested in. there is more on the website too. and there will be more to come. Cheers for watching.Hope you will climb aboard. Ride Free 🙂
The lower end models, aimed at Indian market as much as export are mostly fine, I ride a Bajaj built 401 Svart. I'm told that aspirational purchases in Asia are trending towards cars, not motorbikes, which then means only certain markets in the world are "hot" going forward. So like many, I think the focus needs to be quality at each price tier. I am looking forward to the CF Moto 450 Ibex invasion, they are lucky to have quad bike oriented dealers that are stepping up to sell and service in Canada.
Perhaps the mid to high-end KTM need more engineering gestation and product at scale design improvements, ie simpler. I wonder where areall those great Husaberg "Ready To Race" engineers in this KTM story, I thought they led the design and engineering even today.
Some very good points well made mate 🙂Cheers for the comment. Ride Free 🙂
I was surprised when I took the throttle body out of my 2020 300xc-w and it said Made in India.
We are also in a niche boutique market. As far as we are concerned, the EU is a money evaporation device and an obstacle course for entrepreneurs.
This, exactly. The overall environment is unsupportive of business that is in any way that is discretionary and not insubstantially priced.
We’ve become a high fixed cost market where profit has been squeezed everywhere, most obviously housing & power.
The self appointed dictators in the EU are banning ICE motorbikes in the next decade, why wouldn't you move production out of Europe to where there is a thriving market.
i have less issues with where they are made than how they are made
Maybe im just lucky, but i have a 690 Enduro R and have ridden it very hard and have had bery good luck with it. Are the 690s made still made in Europe?
Great, well put together informative video
what? people heard we are outsourcing manufacturing and jobs to china and now poeple are buying other brands......... we just dont get it
lol
The 790/890/901 models would have sold much better if they weren’t plagued by so many problems. And India/China aren’t likely to improve that.
you never know 🙂 so far the cam on the 800MT seems to be going quite well lol, and i have been looking for failures
I was looking at a 300, but the dealers not budging on the $14,000 price tag left me looking toward a Japanese bike.
This is what you get when you put people whom formerly ran a budget coffee mug company in charge of a high end vehicle company and demand a 20% year over year increase in profits and the same parallel reduction in costs, something has to give, and it is usually quality that gets flushed down the toilet first.
They defiantly lost me as a customer. I bled orange, not because i hated the other brands but the 300xc was just a perfect bike for me. Ktm for over 24 years. Then a 2023 with a random bog i could not get rid of for 27 hours after it started at 20 hours. Ktm admitted they couldnt fix it unless it did it on the laptop. 3 dealers not wanting to really get involved after all the stuff I’ve already done, and i jump it a lot. Eventually it sent me to the hospital. The tbi is great until it’s not, and can be hard to troubleshoot some issues. Currently on a 2024 yz 250 and starting to bond, but i miss my 300 but will never buy another new one. Fuel injecting the 2T is too difficult. It has to fuel twice as much as the 4t and with oil. Looking around for a low hour carbed 300… i also think the Indian company that bought half the company in 2021 is partly to blame for ktm’s current expansion and QC issues. Pump and dump…
Good presentation of KTM's problems. I have owned a SDGT for a few years now while I love the engine, suspension and brakes there have been several very annoying issues that KTM seemingly refuse the do anything to resove. Period. If you want people to buy your products then take care of those who have done so in the past. Don't blame interest rates for your sales decline. I have never met a KTM owner who was happy with their bike or KTM as a philosophy. Me, I am planning on selling my KTM soon (if that's at all possible) and will not be buying another KTM.
I also have a Gen2 SD GT (amongst other KTMs) and its a phenomenal machine - Most people who I have met who own KTM love them in my considerable experience and I ride with guys who have SDRs that are over 10 years old for example - So whats your story? I mean when you have enough disposable income to buy an SDGT, why would you keep a bike you didnt like for "a few years" if its been so bad?! Time to trade up on that Versys surely?!
Thanks for asking. I do love the SDGT, it's a fantastic piece of kit. Puts a grin on my face every time I ride it. BTW I live in the mountains of NC and it is a brilliant bike for ripping the twisties!! My issue has been that all too often the "Race On" refuses to actually fire up the computer and bike. This happens randomly on my KTM and is extremely annoying not to mention embarrassing when riding with others. It will sometimes take 15 or 20 minutes to eventually decide to come back on. The bike has never left me stranded, but I have this odd feeling every time I go to ride like "I wonder if it's going to turn on". Not good. It actually did it at the dealership one time (thankfully) and the tech had to "re-boot" the computer to get it to turn on. KTM forums are full of people who have had the same issue. There is a well known UK magazine that this happened to out on the road, during the test, and they could not get the bike to on. Has to have the bike picked up. Anyways, don't want to waffle on but KTM refuse to acknowledge or fix the problem. It could be the bike is sensing the steering lock is on when it is not. It could be any number of things. The newer update model now seem to have a different "Race On" system / button. Bottom line is I just don't trust the bike will turn on every time and while I love riding the bike I will not be buying another. Looking at going back to a Triumph or Jap bike. BTW I have had numerous other sensor issues, warnings, etc which to me just modern motorcycles acting up. Not turning on is a very annoying problem. Lastly and by no means any less annoying is the seat. Some people are ok with it, some hate it. I am in the hate category. The stock seat tortures my derier within 30 minutes. The aftermarket ERGO seat is unbelievably even more uncomfortable. How KTM can produce a sports tourer with such and uncomfortable seat is beyond me. I have to use cycling shorts and an air Hawk bag ti ride half a day in semi comfort. And nobody makes and custom seat for it that I have found......
Well you asked. There are my issues!! I wanted a bike with the modern tech, suspension, fantastic brakes and 179 hp and I got it. But KTM not on my future radar.....
interesting read, thanks for adding this both of you, it shows the big differences in experiences that worry me
My 2024 ktm had a 1400.00 shipping fee 😢 about to go back to Honda
ouch, cant blame you there 🙂Cheers for watching and for the comment mate. Ride Free 🙂
Both of my Austrian built KTM’s have been 100 % reliable
( 640/1190 Adv) . The trouble is that they decide to still charge European prices for bikes made in China and India (and/or major components ).
where greed steps in
It's all because they gave Toby Price the flick!
To be fair I get the concern regarding European regulations an bureaucracy. I'm an engineer in South Africa and even here it is getting stifling so I can only imagine how bad it must be in the first world.
it is a big problem🙂Cheers for watching and for the comment mate. Ride Free 🙂
For me there is just 1 simple feature I need in a car or motorcycle - reliability! Toyota has it, Yamaha mostly has it, KTM does not care (so I have had more than 10 new motorcycles, never a KTM)
Levelling up....
glad you enjoyed it mate 🙂 Theres plenty more on the channel. hope youll climb aboard. Cheers for watching. Ride Free 🙂
Ah man I’m just getting back into moto after years! I have an old ‘09 450 exc and it doesnt look like I’ll be looking at a newer one from KTM. 😒
such a shame, i have an 890 duke r, and it's just a fantastic bike, but I'm always worried about the cam issue and general reliability, and now of course it's reduced value due in no small part to KTM not getting on top of things quickly..Word spreads very fast in the bike buying public and I can see this company seriously nose diving
So more bikes with TOFU CAMS like the KTM 790/890/901 nordon/Kove 800 (790)
maybe surprising, and may only be time, but i have seen no CF Moto or Kove cases yet, i am still looking and listening
B.S. - Sure, interest rates aren't great, but sales definitely suffer in the USA because no one wants to buy from a company that ships engines with cam issues. I was looking hard at KTM adv bikes last year, as I have an enduro model now. The ADV bikes already had electronic, brake, fuel pump issues - that cam issue is a monumental engineering/QA failure. I waited for a while to see if KTM came around, but they just kept failing. KTM, and all related companies is completely off my list for at least a few years. They also don't have any entry-level, lower-grade dirt bikes for folks starting out - but maybe they figure they can't do that and maintain quality enough (they can't reliy on riders as much to adhere religiously to excessive maintenance on a cheaper model) to make one last for 6 months.
They need to make fewer, more reliable bikes . More investment in testing and manufacture improvements.
A good point well put mate 🙂Cheers for the comment. Ride Free 🙂
I believe the opposite actually. Produce more under Chinese industrial production . Sad to say, but European development coupled with Chinese engineering and large scale production is what has been reality for about 10-15 years now. In the beginning Chinese manufacturers copied European design. Badly. Then they delivered 5 copies of the same machine at a lower price as for one European unit. Then they started buying out European engineers and companies. Nowadays they become masters in engineering and pushing to large scale and with largely available first class Chinese engineers, they just get better and better. That’s a reality. I’ve seen small companies loose all their value due to niche manufacturing once equivalent technology level being produced for almost nothing in India or china.
Absolutely no surprise. Western European economy is dead. No one can afford its production cost for the masses in the long run. Inflation, wages, governments. A lot needs to change over here.
@@os6219 I mean fewer models of engine / electronics rather than volume. Look at Honda , they rarely design a new engine and when they do, it is tested thoroughly.
@@nickclarkukthat won’t happen, unfortunately. It like Apple’s (or any other manufacturer) service or subscription business. It’s what makes them money.
@@os6219 Think there's an additional mechanism at play in this case: Euro manufacturers like KTM went to asia - in this case India - to cut costs - And asian manufacturers did what all emerging economies do and captured the tech to evolve faster at very low cost
How long before Bajaj take over or CF Moto .
Pierre Mobility don't make bicycles, they just rebadge those from other manufacturers as my son has proven by removing stickers off what was supposedly a GasGas eBike (and turned out to be a bad purchase !) Motorcycle mechanics know SFA about setting up eBikes!
two very different markets for sure
I want I wanted a Husqvarna they talked me out of it the shops on bettas they said the beta is a better bike and it was $4,000 cheaper and they warrantied every issue with it I'm glad I bought the beta it is a very nice motorcycle they are the original owners of that company since 1909
USA Husky and GG salesman here. We can't give away either brand right now. Selling both at or below dealer cost just to get them off the flooring interest. No luck. GasGas are so firkin ugly in 2024 nobody touches them. We have one 2025 Husky and ZERO Husky or GG on order. Sad. With overproduction, every shop in the USA is blowing them out devaluing the brand. The used KTM, Husky and GG market has crashed in the USA. That 15 hour, year old bike is worth a little over half what you paid OTD if a dealer will even take it in. Crazy world in motorcycle game these days. Glad I have BETA's to sell.
thanks for adding this mate, prices are down here but not quite that much, sounds terrible, i have heard of dealers refusing part exes on the 790 890 though so it isnt good, fingers crossed with the Beta's, those 400's do stand out for me when you compare them to the Triumph and RE, good luck mate
I switched to Beta in 2021 and am very happy.They are one of the best selling dirt and dual sport bikes in upper Michigan now.6 month warranty and often cover stuff after warranty ends.The KTM dealer has large price cuts and still not selling well.I have a Africa Twin for adventure and Beta 300 for offroad.I looked at KTM for adventure bike but so many problems with them.
I think their offroad bikes are doing just fine, we've always had KTM's and they have been very good to us. These Asian bikes seem to be less reliable and the market is closing in. I think they're doing a fine job with making offroad (not adventure) bikes, just hopefully they can get their business straightened out
my issue is less with KTM and more with PMG
Can we please get an update on how MV has been doing under Pierer Mobility as of recent months/weeks? You just barely touched on them in this video. I've been in a holding pattern for the last few months on whether I will give my local MV dealer my $500 deposit for my 921S with a Jan 2026 estimated delivery. I'm deeply concerned that Pierer Mobility will put the squeeze on MV to cut costs on design, R&D, parts quality, and especially assembly quality. I'm sure it will have a true MV engine, but that's not much assurance of a quality product overall when delivered. For NOW, MVs being delivered to dealerships are fantastic. But Jan 2026 is a long time from now, and even tho MV got all of their US delivery 921S VINs approved by the DOT months ago, at the same time they decided to push the delivery dates from Jan 2025 to Jan 2026 according to my local dealer. So yeah, LOTS of time for Pierer Mobility to step in and screw things up between now and then. Thanks!!
@@emptymannull I would love to mate but had very little concrete information other than (by layout and dimensions) working out that the new cf Moto 675 does seem to be the mv 675 engine I’ve heard a lot about more investment but nothing I can put down as a definite “this has happened” I have been told production is up and running but not by any of my contacts there who have only said they can’t say anything at the minute and I can’t even get them to give me a why. If we go by precedents they will keep Italy going for at least a year or 2. But if there has been more investment as I previously said there would be. PMG are now well and truly in control and so baja will be prime movers in any decisions and will likely be supported by cf Moto in what comes next. The only thing the Chinese and Indians don’t argue about is money. I would guess an initial 3 year plan has been laid down to consolidate the investment and after 2 they will look at what comes next. Hope that helps a bit. Sorry it isn’t more solid
@@barebonesmc That's does help. I think then I may move forward on my deposit, follow things closely, and cross my fingers things stay stable in Italy thru my delivery. Thanks so much!!
@@emptymannull i dont know where you are, but with market prices as they are, would it be worth looking 2nd hand? they do come up and prices are stupidly low at the minute here
@@barebonesmc I'm in California and I've been promised a specific serial # so I was gonna buy new
@@emptymannull enjoy mate
They got spread out some what with all the brands of basically the same bikes. This is not a death sentence for KTM and its owners but hopefully they adapt.
So all coming models will come with cheese camshafts, not just the 790 890. What a shame.
the interesting thing is, the camshafts from the CF Moto bikes with the same engine dont seem to be suffering as badly
There is nothing wrong with the cams. Its an oil flow problem wearing the cams out because they are not being lubricated properly with oil.
@@thepub245 see previous video 😊 yes I believe it is the oil delivery to the cams. But nevertheless it is the cams and/or cam bearing surfaces that suffer. Yet the cf Moto cams don’t seem to be suffering the same wear. One theory being the lower state of tune saves the cf Moto engine. But I’m not arguing for or against that until I know more
@@barebonesmchow do you know CF Moto don’t suffer ? Where are the stats - they haven’t sold any creditable numbers in Europe , you are talking none sense as usual because you have some emotional little tantrum about KTM, they really hot under your skin 😉 the vast majority of customers are happy with their KTM products , look in any competition paddock and who is number one by far and for a reason - they make the best competition bikes that are as reliable and generally more reliable than any competition
@@orange1666the quality control on the drilling or casting of the oil delivery galleries has obviously gone amiss somewhere on the 790 and 890 engines. Its either the design or there is bad workmanship or both. The fact that KTM hasnt addressed it is not great.
KTM wow I guess all the rumors about their financial woes were true after all.
Sales and profits probably down for many European, USA and Japanese brands. Global downturn and reduced sales after Covid boom. Probably lots of job losses across many brands. Chinese smart timing, now offering Cheaper deals and taking more market share.
A good point well put mate 🙂Cheers for the comment. Ride Free 🙂
I didn't not buy a KTM/Husky due to high interest rates. I didn't buy it because of the risk of getting a lemon, which is quite high. I'd love to have a 890 Adventure R or Norden 901 Expedition, but they need to be proven to be as reliable as Yamaha's Tenere 700 and Honda's Africa Twin. Once KTM has that reliability, part availability, ease of fixing, etc. then I would love to have one of their bikes. But until then my blood will stay blue. Reliability is #1 for adventure bikes. Slightly better performance and electronics doesn't matter if it fails or is glitchy and complicated to fix. My local Husky/KTM dealer was honest and told me about all the issues with the 890/901's. The same dealer also sells Honda, and would not recommend me a KTM/Husky if I cared for reliability. The 890's and 901's suffered from a lot of electrical issues, clogged injectors due to fuel tanks disintegrating from the inside, leaking tubeless rims, unbalanced rims that cannot be fixed, cam problems after 15000-30000km, etc. No thanks... I want to spend my riding season on the road, not waiting for warranty servicing and parts.
Great point 🙂Cheers for adding your bit mate. Ride Free 🙂
KTM cut their own throats by making unreliable bikes and denying the issue, not honouring warranties. Bad operational management.
A good point well put mate 🙂Cheers for the comment. Ride Free 🙂
My love for KTM died years ago…
Welcome aboard mate, enjoy the ride and cheers for the support
NOT GOOD!
i have to agree, if you havent seen them, the other videos do have other bits of the bigger story.
Cheers for watching and for the comment mate. Ride Free 🙂
The government forced move from two cycles to four cycles increased the price of dirt bikes a lot.
Lets’s be honest. Europa and the US have not been leading in the motorcycle market since Japan stepped in. The renaissance of European brands can very well be explained by the Japanese having more serious things to consider. It can also be claimed that many a since then re-established brand has been financed with Asian money. We’ll simply have to get used to the fact that our markets are no longer the driving forces in motorcycle land. And strangely enough this cloud actually has a bit of a silver lining. The ever more realistic, less over the top motorcycles which are introduced nowadays may not have been designed for us but at least they take us back a bit to the essence of motorcycling, assuming we are prepared to look beyond the fact that most of them are jawninspiring parallel twins accessed via a video game. 😉😁
some good points Marc, they seem to like the video game front end in China and India though so that worries me 🙂
@@barebonesmc In the car world real switches are coming back because people are getting fed up with having to evade through menus. Equally the “select your gears with a paddle” fad already passed in sportcarcountry years ago. Yet the whole motorcycle market goes apecrazy over DCT etc. My prediction for the next stupid craze is electric eybrowwarmers. 😉😁
Mhmm, somehow I've heard that before. Production costs in Europe have risen. So I outsource my production to India or China. Well, produces a lot of unemployed people in Europe but, it is what it is.
In Asia I can produce more than 40% cheaper and ... because I don't lower the final price ... I can calculate a much higher profit.
So ... produce cheaply in Asia and then sell my product for a high price in Europe, to the very unemployed I have caused (find the mistake).
well put sir 🙂
Thank god I own a 1090R last of the real Ktms, if I had to buy again Yamaha all day
Can't imagine Husky not getting another country. Sweden, Italy, Germany, Austria .... Canada? Have you seen the Origin?
Reviewers say KTM and Ducatis are great!
People trust them and buy them. T hey ride them and the completely opposite happens. Bikes are fragile, maintenance is high and people get fed-up.
Reviewers say hondas are "boring". People dont want to own a "boring" bike so they trust them. Truth is, no one has invented more than honda, not even close. Also, they have about 50% market share. They produce over 20 million bikes per year, ducati produces 50000. Are hondas 200 times better than ducatis? Perhaps no, but they have 200 times money to invent new things and make their bikes 200 times more reliable than ducati or ktm.
A good point well put mate 🙂Cheers for the comment. Ride Free 🙂
I hate all these publicly held companies. Look at Harley and Boeing and all the auto companies.
Should stand by their waranies, acknowledge their mistakes,fix their parts supply and stop treating their customers like they are idiots.will make everything fine
we can hope 🙂