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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Let's talk about the characterization of Lloyd Garmadon in Ninjago Crystalized - and how one line of dialogue made it go downhill.
Become a channel member: / @crusty783
#Ninjago #NinjagoSeason15 #Ninjago2023
Ninjago, Ninjago 2023, Nadakhan, Ninjago United, The Quest for Lost Powers, Ninjago 2018, Ninjago Oni Trilogy, Ninjago Season 9, Lloyd, Garmadon, Hunted, Ninjago Season 9, Ninjago Season 9 episodes, Ninjago Season 1, Ninjago Season 11, Ninjago Golden Weapons
Lloyd and Nya competing for who can have the worst character regression in Crystallized
They were such great characters before crystallized. Also Kai has been butchered to minced meat. The best thing these past 5 seasons have brought were Cole and season 13. If only the rest of the characters got the same justice as Cole did. 😔
@@dot.4826 kai been going downhill since season 8
@@dot.4826
Seabound?
"Also Kai has been butchered to minced meat."
Bro, come on.
I am writing knowing that many people won’t like this unpopular opinion: crystalized also ruined Jay and I can explain why. Before crystalized I really liked Jay because he was jovial and cheerful but became serious and responsible when circumstances required it but crystalized destroyed that trait of Jay when he and Cole went to steal Aspheera’s staff. Jay was terrible there he acted irresponsibly and treated this task as something not very important. Although it was absolutely the opposite Nya's fate and life depended on this I mean isn't *THIS* the moment when Jay had to take this extremely seriously, he literally lost his love for a whole year and she was in mortal danger and when the chance to save her came he didn't even bother to remember the simple password. In this scene he made me so mad like I know that you were depressed for a whole year and now Nya appeared and the sadness was gone but you probably forgot why you came here because this's literally your last chance to get her back (and yes I knew they'd return her anyway). It just completely messed up Jay, making him an unfunny kid who's TOO irresponsible about everything (even if the life of the dear person he loves depend on it).
@@exavierhall Yeah, honestly one of the very few things I enjoyed about Crystallized is that it was probably the "best" Kai has been post-movie.
Lloyd hating evil garmadon in this season would’ve been fine but it was so poorly executed. Lloyd should be mad at garmadon because he wasn’t a good father (which you could say isn’t his fault but he’s still a bad dad) but he’s made at for being oni. He knows oni can be good, for example, Mistake, wu, HIMSELF.
on top of that he isnt mad at harumi at all making his characterisation all the more confusing
Wu is just part oni not full
@@Crusty783 yeah its really Annoying
EXACTLY
Yeah but it’s still not his fault I don’t think we should be mad at him I guess he could be a bad dad but it’s still not his fault yeah the Garmadon wasn’t even evil
It’s sad that despite Lloyds character being absolutely butchered and mishandled in Crystalized, their are still characters that are somehow handled worse in the SAME season.
yeah🤡
I think Lloyd's was the most disappointing though, since he had such a big setup
@@contayjuslovesonedirection1817 how ?
@@alexmc973 not my comment, but the message behind her character throughout the beginning of the show was that she didn't need powers to be strong. she was smart, determined and a strategist even if she wasn't a ninja.
it seemed like they were coming back to this message through the mechanic, since he was saying that she was useless without powers, AND THEY LITERALLY PROVED HIM RIGHT. she only beat him when she got ahold of her powers again and like??? that's an awful message
and also its so lame that they take away any sense of consequence because of it (not only with nya's powers, but also the ninja not being wanted anymore)
@@contayjuslovesonedirection1817
How dare you Nya wasn’t terrible in this season she was awesome in the season why do you think she was terrible in the season? I’m not trying to be rude or anything I’m just saying that I think Nya was great and awesome in this season but why do you think she was terrible in this season? I hope you didn’t find that offensive lol
@@xuliaiguess 1 her regajning her powers makes perfect sense in universe BC aspheera did the same to kai but his powers returned after a while 2 a lot of people complained about nya having her powers rememoved They regresed her they nerfed her without her powers She cant do spinjitzu which is not true. If her powers wont return its going to be a plot hole ETC. If She gets her powers back peoole are upset If She s not știll upset What the heck
also the fact lloyd was discriminating garmadon considering he’s an oni does massive disservice to mistaké (can’t spell for shit) considering she died for lloyd and the others while leaving the message to lloyd that literally not ALL oni are just 100% evil like mf forgot about her or something
Literally Lloyd is oni like how tf
Literally, Wu and Lloyd are both part Oni. It doesn't even make sense.
@@davedog0984 also wu, who literally has a sayin “the best way to defeat your enemy, is to make them your friend”
WAIT ! SHE DIED ???!
@@noursama_the_old yes In the last season everyone dies and it’s a baaaaaaaaad ending
At least in my opinion, Lloyd from the end of possession to hands of time was much more mature than he was after that. In my mind, I mean sure he was being a master and all but especially since season 11, he wasn’t really serious anymore. Also, has no one realised that Lloyd was traumatised because a girl he was in love with for a week betrayed him.
that girl used him and appealed to every single one of his insecurities and then killed his friends infront of him
@@Crusty783 also what She did to his father
@@Crusty783fair point
@@Crusty783 twice, in fact
Harumi made it her mission to torture Lloyd as much as possible
This is what happens when you make 6 writers write a season lmao
I really HOPE LLOYD recovers from this. he's my favorite ninja.
United can still fix it
@@alexmc973 It is able to and i really hope so.
i literally didnt even bother finishing the season lmao. too much going on for me to actually become invested in any of the character arcs or plotlines going on, it was so messy
Aint this the last season tho?
@@Soul.Resonant It’s the last season of the series, not the franchise. There is going to be another series called Ninjago United
Lloyd with Harumi: I mean yeah you traumatized me, revived my father specifically to kill me and my friends and having him bring a stone titan to wreck the city I love but I still believe there's good in you.
Lloyd with Garmadon who barely did anything evil between MOTO and Crystalized: F**k you.
You my friend just summed up the new seasons with this 👏👏
moto moto is the worst ninjago villain i agree
FR! It makes no sense!!
LMAO
I saw Lloyd showing himself that way to his father but from an idea that ( I'm not going to bother trying to change you or take you at face value as I know how this ends) emphasizing that Lloyd tried many times before finally accepting it or getting his hopes up again and when he least expects it his father will let him down again. It's like trying for 20 days to get an alcoholic to stop drinking and he's done it anyway, I don't even have to wonder what will happen on the 21st."
And remembering his father's factor He denied him as a son and every second he compared him to the person who tried to kill him, that in itself is irritating, I'll just say that even so Lloyd still upset, continued to talk to his father. But the detail that leaves an open issue for me is that at the end when Lord Garmadon falsely dies, you see that all that lining or shield of (don't bother me father!) totally falls off because it shows the reality that there is still in the background that SON WHO STILL LOVED HIS FATHER SO MUCH.👏 OK. And it's in that ending where the unfair part is still shown as it's still Lloyd who in the end has to pay the damn piper.
I always read that particular line as being part of Harumi's attempt to re-manipulate Lloyd. She's demeaning him and tearing him down intentionally, telling him he won't amount to anything, not because we're supposed to believe it, but because she wants *Lloyd* to believe it. Idk if that makes sense but there you go
that's what an abuser usually does with his victim, messes with their own self-image so they think less of themselves
Accurate
Literally! I agree with the points being made but i disagree that this line is what caused it.
I personally feel that this video should have talked about Lloyd's fight with Avatar Harumi in season 12. In this fight, he is willing to believe that this is the real Harumi which makes absolutely no sense (until he asks the AI a personal question about him and the real Harumi's relationship that it can't answer). What can be taken away from this is that Lloyd feels conflicting emotions about Harumi, when in her presence, and when in the presence of princesses in general. In season 13, Lloyd believes that princess Vania is a threat. This idea is not expanded upon very much, but it still proves my point. So TL;DR, Lloyd does usually learn from his mistakes when not in the presence of princesses.
I think it's weird too, but the evidence is there.
Edit: Oh my gosh! Thank you for 300 likes! This the most likes I’ve ever received on a TH-cam comment!
so... not at all then, because the person he made the mistake with was a princess?
@@Crusty783 Yeah, kind of. I think they give him PTSD or something.
@@supremesabaensantana It's actually very common for a victim to fall back into old habits with their oppressor is around because of the PTSD. Your analysis would be decently accurate.
@@amandaslough125 Thanks!
I was thinking the same thing. It look to me, seeing first off your first dead lover coming back for revenge and seems she may like you, would any sane human being. His hate for his father wss the weird segment. But his relationship with Harumi make sense. Also I believe the guy in the video was wrong to say he keeps falling for it. If you play a sport or a chess match against a skilled opponent it does not matter what mistakes you learn. The other opponent is just as smart to adapt as well. He tried tying her up, she escaped.
Can we take a moment and think about the fact they tried to redeam Harumi? She's probably the most evil villain in the show when you think about it, it's as though the show rememberred when she was pretending to love him, and her death, and forgot about the rest of the two seasons. She's probably the most sadistic and evil villain we've had, she was egging Garmadon on to murder people, she helped those people because they reminded her of what happenned to her, not because she was a good person, she probably caused so many other children to be orphaned, it'd be more realistic to redeam Pythor! Or any of the other villains, this character is pure evil and was the last character they should have forgiven.
Agreed, they should have kept her dead. The fact she worked with the Overlord despite knowing he was going to engulf the world in darkness is pure bs and she should have been tossed in Garmadon's old cell.
Yeah why is Pythor even a villain anyway?
He can be better as a snarky alley to the ninja despite all that happened.
I know they had a rough start but i thought they sorted most of their problems out.
(Even if he served the Overlord)
It's a bit of an exaggeration to sag she's the most evil villain in the same show where we have:
The living embodiment of evil.
The living embodiment of destruction.
A psychopathic snake who tried to destroy the surface world with a giant serpentine.
A Warlord who provoked a worldwide war that ended with the snakes locked in tombs.
A borderline (if not fully) pedophile creature wanting to shape the world as he wishes while also spending centuries as a bloodthirsty criminal pirate.
Two technological psycho brothers who want to return to a time without modern medicine while also killing the Elemental Masters in the past.
A ghost who wanted to destroy the world out of spite for not wearing a green uniform.
A pissed off exile who manipulated an innocent robot to freeze an entire world and destroy those he opposed.
A literal slaveowner Sorcerer King.
A squid who killed his own father in cold blood, tried to kill his brother after years of bullying and drown the entire surface world out of a sense of supremacy, entitlement and racism.
Competition is very fierce, I'm not sure Harumi is the most evil here.
@@falconanddragons2214 I REALLY HOPE SHE'S IN JAIL IN NINJAGO: UNITED like if they could arrest the ninja despite saving ninjago many times, they can arrest her for being the responsible of both garmadon and the overlord return
Dude, I genuinely liked it when they did a "yeay good garmadon and actual redeemable villains" but I cannot fathom how much confusion I felt when they redeemed Harumi. I thought that Harumi was gonna die again since Lloyd just kept on pulling Steven lines. So it was pretty fucking shocking seeing Lloyd comfort Harumi, the girl who literally wants him dead.
I absolutely loved how Harumi's moments with Lloyd seemed so real, as if she actually had feelings for him, but she just uses this to torture him about it, playfully tearing him apart, hoping that he'd snap.
So it's likely that they like each other, but due to what Harumi did before, Lloyd can't trust her, and they end up still enemies until the end?
@@theserpent8667 i think they ended up in good terms, but not being close friends because that girl has lloyd traumatized fr
While I think the execution is messy, I do believe Lloyd in Crystallized is written with the same vision as the rest of the series post season 8. I don't want to do a massive text dump, but I will say that with season 13 it's clear that his trust issues still aren't fully resolved after the Ice Chapter, and then the reappearance of Harumi rips open those wounds while they're still healing. I've just finished a full series rewatch in the context of Crystallized's ending, and in retrospect I think there is a very clear through line in Lloyd's characterisation in seasons 10-15.
It's also important to remember that Mystake herself warned Lloyd against using Oni power due to its dark nature (although that's a different discussion to the one being had in this video).
And March of the Oni is very much the source of his resentment towards Garmadon in Crystallized. Throughout the season we see Garmadon do or say things that visibly upset Lloyd, destroying what little faith he had that Garmadon had good intentions (eg. saying he's only protecting Ninjago so he can destroy it himself). Also, Lloyd died during the tornado of creation, and Garmadon dipped before he woke up. It's unclear whether or not he even knows Garmadon joined the tornado. As far as Lloyd is aware, Garmadon did nothing to show he was redeemable at any point during MOTO.
Also, 7:29 Lloyd does say he was wrong literally seconds before the clip here. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but obviously it's not good faith to misrepresent the season to support your opinion..
The point about 7:39 is good and something I failed to mention yeah, although Lloyd saying "maybe" is still a mischaracterisation imo and this whole "you cant care" thing is something that shouldn't have even been a question in the first place
@@Crusty783 7:44 This encourages my theory that Lloyd will be the main and iconic enemy in Ninjago united.
If this was the last season of the main show Lloyd should've embraced his oni side at the end, but he didn't.
Also eye have a crazy theory that Lloyd is The Overlord. Eye am a big fan of timeloops.
I don’t think him being mistrustful of Garmadon was invalid, I just think that they could’ve focused on more than it just being about him being an Oni because even with all of that, it’s still be proven that Oni don’t HAVE to be evil. Like, sure, most of them are, but good ones exist. So yeah Lloyd was clearly aimed to be mistrustful of Oni but he was also kind of ignoring a lot of evidence to the contrary of his conclusion. Of course this is just my own opinion
It’s a shame with how much potential there was for this season. Lloyd is easily one of the (if not the ) most popular characters in the show and a lot of the fan base adores him (myself included despite what Crystalized did to him). We grew up with him in a way. Imagine we had Lloyd having a real meaningful discussion with Garmadon about why he feels the way he feels and him expressing his true feelings about his father returning , feelings I think he never had the time to fully understand and explore. Season 3 and 4 handled their father-son relationship in such an amazing way and they could have done so as well in Crystalized. Garmadon can stay sarcastic and unintentionally cruel at times (however just like he did in the season he could at least try to be better) but don’t make Lloyd hate him so deeply as I really don’t think it’s in character for him. In seasons 8 and 9 while they were fighting he even mentioned something along the lines of “I don’t want to fight you “, “I HAVE to believe this isn’t you”. I liked the “birthday card” line in Crystalized, because it had emotion and background to it. Garmadon abandoned Lloyd and never apologized. You can sympathize with Lloyd , however the rest of their interactions mainly focused on “you are an Oni, you are incapable of caring” which not only contradicted what we saw in terms of Mystake, Wu, FSM but also made Lloyd dismiss all of his father’s attempts at doing just that, caring. If everything, all of his hatred should have been directed at Harumi. He was oddly ok with her? Forgave her immediately, no questions asked. I liked what they did with Harumi at first with the flashbacks of Lloyd going back to search for her, her being cruel however still having a bit of humanity left in her. However her characterization became random and erratic from that point on. She would be concerned for Lloyd and unsure at one time and manipulative and mischievous at others. Ok bring her back and give her a redemption arc (it’s clear the writers really wanted that), but do it in such a way that it doesn’t ruin nor her nor Lloyd’s character and progression. Have her change her mind and realize the Overlord is pure evil early on. And make it so that it’s more like “the overlord has revived me so I have no choice but to follow him, despite my other beliefs “ kind of situation so that it’s not that shocking when she does essentially change her mind. Have Lloyd be absolutely mad at her and have him gradually realize that Harumi is not truly evil. Perhaps throw in a flashback of Lloyd talking to the family she saved at the end of Hunted ( I’ve always thought that would be such a cool idea). Have him then help her change her mind and come to her senses (similarly to what he kinda tried in the show however not with that atrocious dialogue and forced nature of it). Harumi should do something big like sacrifice herself in order to save Lloyd ( I don’t know have her jump in front of him when he is attacked or help him escape while betraying the Crystal council and slowing them down so that he could get out of the temple). And they should have Lloyd be consumed by the darkness of the Oni magic. Have him destroy the overlord and take his place instead. But here is the catch. Harumi is the one that manages to actually get to him and get him back on track and not let him do the same mistakes she did. It would make her redemption better I think and if they really want to make Llorumi a thing it would not be so out of the blue and toxic I think . But these are just some of my thoughts. Sorry for the long essay 🤣🤣🤣. Amazing video and great points and arguments !☺️
I never in my life seen this comment have a full on 15 paragph
did anyone also had a problem with fact that Lloyd still cared about Harumi even after she "killed" all his friends without hesitation ?
Like I'm sorry it felt like he was willing to forgive her murdering his friends even without her showing any remorse
just why ?
For me that would be instant no thanks f*ck you
SAME SAME SAME I hated lloyd for that like why tf are you thinking with the wrong head mister?? 😩😩😩😩😩
@@jissmol8738 @@jissmol8738 OMG hahah I couldn't have summoned it better 😂😂
maybe he was like : Welp all my friends are dead might as well get hot evil girlfriend ?💀
if i was lloyd, and ninjago wasnt for kids, i would have just blasted her off the realm
Lloyd just hates his friends 😫😫
@@tomas_crusader1756something I would definitely do
Hot take but I kinda liked season 1-7 Lloyd more. For the entire 15th season Lloyd hated Garmadon the entire time, yet in seasons 1 and 2, it is constantly stated that Lloyd does not want to fight his father, and vice versa, but rather sees how he can be good instead. Seasons 8 and 9 might have been really good, but that's what I hated the most about Lloyd's character change. When Garmadon was finally trying to better himself, he was utterly dismissed, but when Garmadon did nothing but embrace his inner darkness back in season 2, Lloyd was understanding. It's what ruined the season for me personally.
I feel like Lloyd not wanting to fight his father is consistent in s9 tbh
@@skylandersfan6954 Yeah, but then it completely changed right after.
@@lazyshadow5027 I agree but given everything Garmadon did that kinda makes sense. After fighting him twice and witnessing him smashing buildings and kill multiple people, its clear to Lloyd that Harumi was right about him, he isnt the man Lloyd recognises. Lloyd dismisses him because he isn't who Garmadon is supposed to be
@@skylandersfan6954 honestly lloyd was there when they FR STATED he was PURE EVIL qnd was surprised he did what he did but it is kinda sad also kinda poetic
@@skylandersfan6954 garmadon didnt wanna hurt lloyd in the past but now he has hurt him
it's like you have a superpower to put all my thoughts into words lol
like llyoid's character was the EASIEST thing to not mess up and they just said "well what if we turn him back to like season 2 but take away all the likeable things about him and- nevermind let's just turn him into an entirely different character no one will notice"
Lloyd having seemingly forgotten about what he learned from Mystaké and him not learning from mistakes seems of the same energy to the point it’s creepy to me.
My biggest takeaway from this video is that Ninjago is actually still getting new episodes and didn't end after 3 seasons like I always assumed it did.
Wait you thought it ended after rebooted, season 2 I can get but rebooted?
@@craigpeoples9883 I guess I did mean Season 2. I just always considered the shorts they did before Rise of the Snakes to be "Season 1," which I gather most Ninjago fans don't.
@@alphabulblax1649Oh that makes more sense
@@alphabulblax1649 i may be wrong but im pretty sure the shorts before rise of snakes counts as season 1
@@somenoob105 its pilot episodes and then the 2011 shorts. Rise of the snakes is season 1. Also nice brawl stars profile.
Yeah, now that you mention it, the character derailment was so bad I am now wondering who wrote Crystallized in the first place. I mean the central plot was okay, but between Nya and Lloyd, the TCDR (total character development relapse) and character derailment were just too prominent…
Crystalized had six different writers working on it which is probably why it was so all over the place
@@Crusty783 Yeah, I hope Ninjago United takes Crystalized's flaws and corrects them.
Edit: I think the reason why Crystalized failed is because it tried to focus on the developement of multiple Ninjas except one of them, past seasons have been focusing on all of the Ninjas sure, but only makes ONE of them the main focus, and because Crystalized is a season from the fast paced Ninjago era it had very little time to establish and conclude it's character arcs. This was the main problem with this season, at least in my personal opinion.
@@madstachoif5512 yeah maybe if they’d focused on Lloyd coming to terms with how his father was resurrected and for the First Spinjitsu Master’s sake retain some memories of Mystake and not put Nya on the sidelines (she could’ve used the exo suit better and the writers know it) and Wu’s fears regarding the Overlord perhaps that could’ve worked. Do a structure similar to Hunted and then converge them for the final battle and again have Dragon Form happen while the iconic theme is playing because that would’ve been amazing to watch
0:12 I actually had no idea he was sarcastic cause I genuinely belive that
also how THE HELL DID lloyd get ruined?, like maybe this is only abt season 14 but Dragons rising COME ON BRO! It's PERFECT, altho I really want to see what happens to harumi and lloyd even tho they will prolly never show it cause, it's supposed to be left to imterpritation and everyone agrees (exept like me) that that would be ninjago endorsing toxic relationships but like, She did change in my mind, also, um, realms merged in dragons rising (that is not a spoiler it is the first thing that happens) so lloyd and akita?, whom we all ship, they have a chance so what happens there?
@@Kusami-mistYou gotta keep in mind that this video isnt talking about Dragons Rising because, this video is a discussion of classic Ninjago, and came out before the Dragons Rising title was even revealed. When I made this video DR was just "that unknown 2023 Ninjago show".
I think Lloyd is written wonderfully in Dragons Rising so far, and I think its great that they've managed to get the character back on track after Crystalized.
@@Kusami-mistdragons rising is actually so bad...
I want Blue Nadakhan to be in this new series to kill Lloyd and feed him to the sky pirates
W H A T
J43 2 for 1 who’s Blue Nadakhan?
@@acronixwoodentrains3058 A variant of an old villain that one TannerFishies used in some of his videos.
@@MagicPotato08 It's a line from a recent video on Ninjago 2023
We're not getting blue nahadakan
I enjoyed the season personally it felt like a end of an era. An era I have grown up with as a child and I just liked it personally. Was there problems yes, are there things that were not endded well ya sure. But thats with any show and ninjago even with its up's and downs is still my favorite show no matter what happens I still love it
CRUSTY STOP RANTING WE GET IT
Joking, even the videos where you are mostly negative are still well put together and good
Could not agree with you more about this!
Lloyd used to be my favorite ninja, but ever since Crystalized he’s now my least favorite! 😢
i hope after united your favourite character will be lloyd again
@@ninjasatwork638 Hopefully, but Skylor takes first close second Zane!
Miraculous Ninja Skylor isn’t on the Ninja Team she isn’t a full on Ninja Member Yet
@@acronixwoodentrains3058 I know Skylor isn’t a ninja yet, but she’s still my favorite character!
Oh I see
Lloyd still isn't ruined as Crystalized didn't conclude his story. Now United has the tough job to fix Lloyd and his story.
If I have to be completely honest, I really love Lloyd in Crystalized. Yes, there were some scenes where he seemed out of character, but everything he did in Crystalized, I feel like is completely justified. With all the crap he's gone through, it makes sense to why he's so done with the world. The scenes where he was a dick to Garmadon was satisfying, because of everything he's gone through with him, even before the Oni trilogy. And I never liked Harumi, but I'm glad they redeemed her, so she can finally stop her toxic behavior towards Lloyd. Overall, I enjoyed Lloyd's character in Crystalized, because he's justified to act and feel that way.
I disagree but valid take!
@@Crusty783, Thanks for the respect!
Plus we saw that he STIIlL cares about garmadon even If he seemed to care more about a plant and haruni
ComiczAnimationz18 I agree with you on that
@@acronixwoodentrains3058, thank you!
Dragons rising has saved Lloyd after crystalized. One of the best characters in Dragons rising
Hard agree. Lloyd is super endearing in DR!
@@Crusty783 I wanna see Nadakhan come back in DR S2. Imagine he tries using the mergequakes to bring back Djinjago in its entirety
When I first heard the line, I really thought it's just the villian saying things we clearly know isn't true but... yeah
Okay, I wasn’t the only one who noticed. Lloyd’s character felt so off. Everyone seemed missed misguided. I honestly chalked it up to time and the lack of it. They obviously rushed to create a narrative that fits into the time but not a narrative that fits into the story.
Despite this, Lloyd is still and always will be my favorite character in Ninjago.
Same. I mostly just ignore Crystalized when thinking of the show unless I'm discussing it specifically.
@@Crusty783 Exactly
I haven't seen this show, but the summary you gave me of Lloyd's story arc before Season 14 sounded so engaging and interesting. I watched this show when I was a kid but remembered nothing and it was when the Green Ninja was just a legend and not a character. It's disheartening to learn that such a great story arc was ruined so badly in an instant
I think this would’ve paid off had they gone with the ending of Lloyd turning evil in his oni form “Yeah, that felt good.” Especially seems like it was setting up some darkness inside of Lloyd. Granted this all could’ve been set up far sooner than here.
Nya wasn't helpful in the season that much either. She was only used as, like you said, an uber service used to get the ninja from A to B, she returned in EPISODE 3, and her powers came back within 20 episodes of that, completely demolishing Seabound's storyline.
They usually give a character less of a role in the season when they've just had a story focused on them
Like Cole not doing much in seabound after master of the mountain, Jay not doing much in master of the mountain after he got prime empire and Nya not doing much in Crystallized after seabound
@@noodie_doodie Exactly! People have some weird double standards with that. When Cole and Jay took a backseat role, no one cares. Probably because Master of the Mountain and Seabound were less controversial seasons than Crystalized, and people let it slide more.
lloyd will forever be my favorite character but hes also kinda stupid in crystallized 💀 writers fault tbh
harumi manipulated lloyd, broke his heart, threatened to kill him and his mother, almost drowned his mother (from what i recall) brought back his evil dad, that destroyed ninjago city, almost killed lloyd while lloyd was begging for him to stop and to remember (i dont recall the exact details of the fight) and so much more HER REDEMPTION ARC WASNT EVEN GOOD LIKE ALL SHE DID WAS "wait……… yOU WERE TEHE ONE THAT KILELD DMU PARENTS 😡😡😡😡🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬😡😡🤬🤬🤬‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵" LIKE OBVIOUSLY????????????????????????????????????? and then all of her past actions were excused WHAT THE FUCK????????? also why did they even bring hoerumi back...
Honestly, this might be a more realistic approach since this is something that can happen to anyone, one dialogue and your mind can go crazy, manipulation is a horrible thing
Akita and Lloyd should've happened 🙏🙏🙏🙏
TRUE
Haven’t watched this show in a while, so I don’t know exactly who Akita is. But I have a friend who despises this ship. Can someone explain the ship to me, a non fan?
This is nothing but facts. You are an amazing speaker and I just cannot fathom how accurate this is. Although it is a possibility that Harumi lied about Lloyd not learning from his mistakes.
problem is harumi is proven right by the season
Lloyd is an interesting character, but I agree the writers did mess up his character arc by a lot with the release of crystalized part 2. Maybe he'll be better in the new series. (Still always going to be my favorite ninja.)
Another Crusty783 rant on Crystalized? Time to get the popcorn. I’m all here for it!
another day another dollar🔥
@@Crusty783 Wher Did you get that quote from?
@@skylord1846 idk
@@skylord1846 batim, maybe? It does use it in the game.
Then again, this might just be a coincidence.
@@Riucaft Oh yeah. I forgot about that. I like that game. I thought it was good.
Its actually really understandable why Lloyd was out of character, he has bottled up his feelings against Garmadon far too long and surely that didn't help that garmadon seemed care about PLANT more than him.
Lloyd was slowly recovering from that harumi stuff but then out of nowhere harumi came back to his life and reopened the wounds. Then about the oni stuff he himself said he doesn't want to be like his father, he didn't want to embrace his oni side. So simply put: Lloyd being out of character in crystallized makes much sense.
I hate Crystalized so much.
Can you compare Ninjago Crystalized to the rise of skywalker now please!?
Good thing dragon rising saved lloyd
I honestly wish we actually saw more of Garmadon's redemption on-screen. Much of it happened off-screen, which was shown through a few montages, and it would have been nice to actually feature a partially-redeemed Garmadon who's making an honest attempt to become a better person but who still has flaws. Zuko's redemption in ATLA is an example - it spanned several seasons was a gradual process. They should have continued the March of the Oni plotline, where Garmadon learned to be a better person, and actually showed how it happened.
They did in the Garmadon comics
They kept on doing this thing where they would have little glimmers of good ideas and then ruin them.
Actually scratch that bringing all the villains back (but especially harumi) was a terrible idea. Honestly I'm just going to willfuly ignore this season and pretend it never existed.
How one line made a character: hahahahaha I have returned
Overlord entering his PEAK ERA🤑🤑🤑🤑
Even with all that I could perceive some details regarding the relationship he had with his father:
I saw Lloyd showing himself that way with his father but from an idea that ( I'm not going to bother trying to change you or take you at face value since I know how this ends) emphasizing that Lloyd tried many times before finally accepting it or getting his hopes up again and when he least expects it his father lets him down again. Remembering also as if it wasn't enough the factor that his father almost killed him and denied him as a son and every second he was comparing him with the person who tried to kill him, that in itself is irritating, I will only say that even so Lloyd annoyed, kept talking to his father. But the detail that leaves an open issue for me is that at the end when Lord Garmadon falsely dies, you see that all that lining or shield of (don't bother me father!) totally falls down because it shows the reality that there still exists in the background that SON WHO STILL LOVES HIS FATHER SO MUCH.👏 OK. And it's in that ending where the unfair part is still shown as it's still Lloyd who in the end has to pay the damn piper.
But still....
And forgive me, I don't have a heart attack because of the plot, because in the end these two get along laughing in their own way😂 I enjoy their scenes, and I understand that for now that's the best way they have of communicating. Well, Garmadon is no saint and if it comes to making amends he still has a long way to go.
Sii amigo lo has descrito a la perfección yo también ví eso y eso que apenas regreso después de mucho tiempo a ver la serie, la verdad disfruté mucho ver la trama con su padre es difícil pero como explicas en tu comentario su relación de alguna manera se maneja así y para mí fue lo mejor😂 y claro la gente puede exagerar bastante solo no lo digas tan fuerte podría tocar sensibilidades"" amo mucho esta serie*
Yes but I think you have to understand what lloyd is going through in this season to have these changes. Firstly, Harumi tricked him again and was revealed to be alive. Second, he found his father who hurt him a number of times in the oni trilogy. So I feel like it makes sense for his character to change like this.
My word, I’ve never seen a take on here I agree with more. Echoed a ton of thoughts I’ve already had bouncing around in my head regarding this. Lloyd’s character is one of the primary focuses I have with Ninjago, but Crystalized felt like a slap in the face in that regard. Just… so many things.
On top of what’s discussed in the video, the amount of sympathy and trust he gives Harumi compared to the amount of anger and DIStrust he gives Garmadon is… wow. Remember those scenes in the Oni Trilogy where he _wanted_ to get through to Garmadon? He so desperately wanted there to be something reminiscent of the father he knew? Makes total sense that now, when Garmadon IS making an effort to be better and is gradually becoming closer to himself, Lloyd is _absolutely_ pissed at him for almost the entire season.
All whilst giving Harumi more trust and sympathy than she ever, ever warranted or deserved, especially from Lloyd of all people. Like, forgiveness is great, but not when it isn’t even realistic character writing. It’s just… a mess.
Not to mention whatever the heck was going on with Oni Lloyd…
Loved the way you laid out his character growth, it illustrated the point really effectively!
i hope ninjago united will fix this
I’m Really Excited for Ninjago United Season 1 coming this year 2023
This season had so much potential. It makes me so mad that it was all wasted. The idea of previous villains coming back to form the ultimate team against the ninjas seemed like the coolest idea ever, yet it was so unenjoyable. The execution of this idea could have been so much better 💔
Ok, so I actually enjoyed season 15 quite a lot, but feel that Lloyd’s character was the weakest part of the entire season. I agree what you said. My biggest problem was with how he just refused to offer his father any sympathy at all. Before Garmadon died he and Lloyd basically made up and they ended on good terms with Garmadon sacrificing himself to save Ninjago. When Garmadon came back I was disappointed how easily Lloyd reverted back to hating him. Like you said, they say he sees the good in people but he proves that wrong over and over again, especially in season 15. Idk he just didn’t feel as noble and wise as he does in past season. I agree that it feels most of his character development was destroyed in this season.
It feels weird how quick he started hating him in Crystalized, because through the Oni Trilogy he didn't seem to hate him too much. Lloyd even begged for him to stop crushing the wagon and Garmadon listened.
I saw Lloyd showing himself that way to his father but from an idea that ( I'm not going to bother trying to change you or take you at face value as I know how this ends) emphasizing that Lloyd tried many times before finally accepting it or getting his hopes up again and when he least expects it his father will let him down again. It's like trying for 20 days to get an alcoholic to stop drinking and he's done it anyway, I don't even have to wonder what will happen on the 21st."
And remembering his father's factor He denied him as a son and every second he compared him to the person who tried to kill him, that in itself is irritating, I'll just say that even so Lloyd still upset, continued to talk to his father. But the detail that leaves an open issue for me is that at the end when Lord Garmadon falsely dies, you see that all that lining or shield of (don't bother me father!) totally falls off because it shows the reality that there is still in the background that SON WHO STILL LOVED HIS FATHER SO MUCH.👏 OK. And it's in that ending where the unfair part is still shown as it's still Lloyd who in the end has to pay the damn piper.
I had not think of that way that exactly line because I saw it like Harumi trying to hurt loyd and I thought on onis never change line but You might be right and it is sad the Bad loyd was managed on that season
Honestly, even after I watched this, Lloyd is still my favorite character in all of the Ninjago series.
Me too, We are one of the few, and that feels good😎.
Hello friends here one more👋, I'm in ;)
Recuerdo ver esta serie desde que se creó y pues sí soy fan de la mayoría de los personajes al igual que la judía verde y recuerdo que se ganó un pequeño lugar en mi corazón y Sí ahí se va a quedar.💚
Even though I like Crystalized I have to admit Lloyd was awful in this season 💀
that's valid!
He was ok during the first 19 20 episodes
Me too
I entirely agree I believe crystallized was possibly one of the worst endings to the franchise ever.
It felt like it was going to slow in the first half, then became too fast in the latter half, and again they basically butchered Lloyd entirely.
The scene you mentioned for starters, how basically Lloyd lost all the development of how and when to trust someone - by once again falling for multiple tricks from Harumi.
Besides that I just dislike how Lloyd was treated - since as the “main” hero of the show, he kinda became a side character for the finale fight - as he didn’t stop the invasion nor the overlord, I understand the four ninja had their importance but considering Lloyd was the one who defeated the Overlord once, becoming such a fodder character in the finale kinda felt off.
Personally, if I was going to end this show, I would have wanted Garmadon and Lloyd to be on some better grounds, possibly bring back Golden Power for the finale (since most people can agree it’s the hypest power).
Then have a finale type fight with the 4 ninja fighting the commanders, with Lloyd having a final rematch against the Overlord, which would and make more sense (Lloyd being the grandson of the being who fought the Overlord).
crystallized sucked in terms of character writing
also they shouldve brought back actually OG villians instead of the new ones. Still glad they brought back Pythor and Overlord
I think the villain roster was a fine blend of all Ninjago's eras. Problem is they are useless and serve no purpose outside of Aspheera at the start
As some whose favorite was Lloyd since day one, I can’t believe this happened. I will just go back to my fanfics to cope.
welcome to MODERN NINJAGO™
I enjoy coping with fanfic
I don't think you should believe anything Harumi says. She only said that to hurt his feelings and make him feel useless
This is addressed at 6:07
I like how his evidence that Lloyd's character is bad is that Harumi said something that is opinion, and thinks Lloyd hasn't changed, when he just sees early on that the cause of anger is him when it should be directed somewhere else. He knows that he has a chance to change her since she is so fixed on changing him
I came in here by chance but I must say that I am literally shocked to see how many can be so hypocritical and I understand more of this society when you do things right "oh yeah cool you are the best", but when you are in your bad time they just send you to shit* . Wao ""how cool are these guys"", seriously. I don't justify the green ninja character and I agree with what is being talked about for the most part, but here's the thing: if I was loyal once when he was at his best I would continue to be loyal when he is also possibly in some of his worst moments, most act the same way they accuse others and characters of, and I not only make this observation for the character here but I've also seen it a lot when the same thing has happened to other ninjas and other characters unfortunately. Literally most become what they q' accuse their own characters of.👍
tbh, i like the season. when watching videos explaining why it’s not good i do admit to myself that the excessive death fake outs and many other things are quite annoying and kind of ruin the season. but to be honest when i say i like the season i think it’s mainly just me saying i like the idea of ONI and how they could develop on it. i also guess i like the idea of seeing old cool villains in a cool crystal outfit (i know this is me just saying i like the fan service but i mean i think they could have done better and still included the fan service) the one thing i don’t like is that they brought harumi back.
The reason lloyd acts so out of character seemingly is because of the people he was interacting with: harumi and Garmadon. while he did learn and grow since march of the oni, that growth was with characters that didn't cause his initial trust issues in the first place.
from personal experience, I can say that if certain people or things caused trauma for you and you grow from that, if you encounter those same people again or encounter very similar situation, there are times where all that growth can just get launched right outside the window. if you rip open the raw wound with an exposed nerve ending, it often can lead to people regressing almost completely to the initial state after the "incident" happened. it can often times bring the worst out of people and lead them to do the most out of character stuff. you can see this in real life people everywhere. you see people regress all the time, and you see people progress, regress, and progress because people aren't perfect. working through trauma learned behaviors and thoughts is a messy process which can take a lot of trial and error and attempts to completely grow from that.
harumi is what caused lloyd to have trust issues in the first place, and having her come back and do the same type of bad things to lloyd all over again, WILL rip open a very raw wound. in fact, he doesn't even completely regress at first. you see him honestly TRYING to reason with harumi and appeal to the possible good in her, but having her abuse this and prove that thought wrong time and time again in this season, of course lloyd is going to stop trusting her again. not to mention that you actively see him basically playing ping pong inside his head between the new and old lessons he learned about trusting people throughout this season. he isn't just completely regressing constantly, you see him honestly TRYING to fight his insides to make the right decision. harumi up until the very last episode showed absolutely no remorse for anything bad she did and showed no signs of turning good. having her rip open lloyd's raw wound and do the exact same type of stuff to him that she did before, WILL mess with his head.
while you could say that "he learned to only trust certain people", that is easier said than done. sometimes you can't help but feel like this person can be saved, and against every ounce of logic in your body, you try your hardest to speak to the good in that person. especially if it is a complexe relationship (like having a parent or sibling you really wanted to love, but reaize don the line they are a prick), you will see people often time throw everything out the window and do the exact same thing they did before the "incident" (which in loid's case is trying to appeal to harumi's good side) no matter how much someone else sees that it is a stupid idea. you see this with people going back into relationship with the same person that cheated on them or did bad things to them; you would think they would have learned to not get back with that person, but you see them going back anyway. sometimes people do stupid stuff in very stressful and emotionally intense situations. often times being with the exact people that causes the trauma can lead you to throw out everything you have learned since then. I see lloyd's behavior being in line with how he would have reacted and thought how he handled her was very in line with how I thought he would have done it. it is especially true since from lloid's perspective, harumi straight up KILLED the ninja and everyone he cared about, so that puts him in an even more emotionally overwhelming situation to screw up in.
I want to say more about the garmadon portion of lloid's behavior, which is in a reply to this because youtube doesn't like super long comments.
I'm interested to see where this goes
@@jamieharding2515 here is the garmadon portion of my main comment since youtube doesn't like extra long comments
In regards to how he treats Garmadon, I see his behavior as also in line with his character. lloid already has a very complicated relationship with his dad in the first place, from admiring his evilness, to having to stop him; from seeing him as evil but semihumane, to seeing him good, to thinking he was dead, than having to deal with garmadon in an almost pure evil and empty state. when garmadon was ressurected to be pure evil, lloid has tried to reason with him and work with him and everything, but garmadon has only borderline tortured, hunted down, hurt, and showed a complete lack of empathy to everyone and everything, especially lloid. so when lloid has to confront and talk to garmadon by COMPLETE SURPRISE, lloid is going to be a little hesitant and upset to even speak with garmadon. then when garmadon reveals and explains that he is trying to learn to be good, you see lloid get more upset and doesn't believe a single word he says and won't hardly try to give garmadon a chance.
to many people, lloid's behavior to garmadon is not reasonable for him, but I beg to differ. considering the two characters that gave lloid the most trauma (harumi and garmadon), he had to deal with harumi first who proved him wrong in every capacity and showed no remorse or anything, which subconsciously started giving him the idea that people won't change to be good. harumi already opened a raw wound and stabbed it, so lloid was already upset and emotionally overwhelmed. then he went to see garmadon soon after that, the other most traumatic person to him, lloid will understandably be upset and hesitant towards garmadon. then when garmadon tried to explain that he is learning to be good now, lloid is understandable upset and won't believe a word he says, not only because of the recent harumi experience, bt because garmadon showed in the past to be completely unchanging and bad. from lloid's perspective, he gave garmadon every chance in the world to change and become a better person, and all lloid got in return was physically and emotionally hurt, garmadon trying to kill him, being shown complete unremorse, got no cooperaation, kept getting inculted, and garmadon kept being combatative towards lloid at every turn. so of course lloid will not believe a single word he says. and the whole "garmadon joined the tornado of creation," garmadon did that last minute and left immediately after. no word to lloid or anything. it is possible that lloid didn't even know garmadon helped in the first place. it also didn't help that garmadon still came across as very curt, not understandiing, and overall combatative and unempathetic, which makes it harder for lloid to accept that garmadon is trying to change. and what puts the nail in the coffin is that garmadon did virtually nothing the past 4 and a half seasons when his help could have been very useful AND the one time they asked for his help, he refused. lloid went through the emotional struggle that is speaking with garmadon, and it was all for nothing. it wasn't until garmadon's plant got hurt that he finally agreed to help.
let that sink in. lloid asked garmadon for help, he refused; plant got hurt, garmadon go apesh!t. you know what this tells lloid? Garmadon cares more for a PLANT than his own son. lloid didn't want to work with him in the first place, then he basically got shown that garmadon cares for his plant over his son, so of course lloid is going to hold resentment towards garmadon. and the way garmadon acts the rest of the season didn't do him any favors either. while he didn't do anything innately evil, he showed no understanding towards lloid at all and kept griping lloid and insulting lloid and being almost completely unhelpful in trying to get lloid to unlock lloid's oni side. garmadon's overall demeanor was overall hurting lloid and pushing the impression that "garmadon bad," even if garmadon was technically trying to help stop the overlord. have you ever yelled at your parents that you hate them or something similar when you didn't get your way, when you think they are being bad people, despite them still taking care of you and giving you a place to live? lloid is suffering a similar mindset; garmadon is casuing him face value problems, so lloid gets upset at that and basically suffers from emotionally induced blindness.
about lloid being racist towards garmadon and the oni in him and saying that he can't change, there is a reason for that. when says that stuff, he is probably the single most upset at that point in the entire season. everything built up to that point and lloid pretty much just couldn't hold it in anymore. almost all logic went out the window in his head because he is the single most emotionally upset at that point. every example except one showed that oni are innately bad, combined with the fact that harumi showed that she wouldn't change up to that point, combined with the fact that nothing was going right for him, combined with the fact that garmadon showed no signs of good in him in the past, combined with his obsession with the plant over his own son, OF COURSE LLOID WOULD COMPLETELY LOSE IT AT THIS POINT!!! at that point he wasn't thinking logically, he was blinded by his emotions and was just spouting the emotional feelings that has been in his head for half the season: oni bad and won't change and so is garmadon. lloid was basically projecting a bit at this point because he kept getting pounded in his head that "garmadon oni, garmadon bad, oni shown to be bad, garmadon=oni=bad.
if anyone literally saw the very next scene with those two, garmadon spared a snake and did his funky explanation of "don't do to others what I don't want done to myself," which made lloid rethink some things about him and calmed his emotions. from personal experience, if you are upset at someone and they start showing signs of goodness (whether that be willing to cooperate or showing that they care or just showing that they aren't a bad person), most of those bad emotions will fade away in a hurry. this happened to lloid when garmadon showed some empathy in not killing the snake. lloid was spewing emotional nonsense and tried to explain that to garmadon that he didn't truely mean what he said and that he was just upset, which was the simplified truth. from there, you see lloid slowly warm up to garmadon with what little screentime they had left. because of that catalyst of good from garmadon
P.S. about the lloid enjoying hurting the snakes. it wasn't that he liked hurting people, he just found it relieving to release his anger and frustration on something viable, which was a bad guy (which the snake was crystalized, so he was bad guy).
I do agree that lloid rejecting the oni at the end instead of embracing it was kind of anticlimactic and that him getting that golden dragon last minute gave him some level of undeserved power, but it wasn't enough for me to not enjoy that finale.
that is my thoughts and how I perceived the whole ordeal.
@@jamieharding2515 I finished my garmadon portion of the comment in reply to the main comment because youtube doesn't like extra long comments.
What whole essay you have there?😭
Lloyd beating the Hypnobrai did piss me off.
me too
In general, I like the Crystallized season, it was entertaining. But I do admit that Lloyd's attitude is very strange to me. I wish they would spend more of him trying to accept his oni side and have a better relationship with Garmadon. Hopefully this mess will be fixed later.
I also remember getting very angry when Lloyd kept falling for Harumi's lies, it was a HUGE setback.
PS: I'm part of the ninjago Spanish community, so I use the translator, sorry for the mistakes.
Not really related to the video, but I'm amazed that this show is _still_ going. I remember watching episodes of it on a website as a kid, lamenting that I ran out of localised ones and being confused by the auto-generated TH-cam captions on the English episodes that followed.
not gonna lie, i though ninjago had stopped making new seasons yar ago. why tf is this show still on lmao
Cus its good
I always saw the character regression as lloyds fear beginning to boil, he doesn't want to end up like garmadon. he doesn't want to be a heartless monster, he says it himself. we saw in prime empire he still cares for harm a lot when the game forced him to fight an avatar of her. he is mad and angry that his father still doesn't care, he's actively trying to suppress that but just like a normal human, its not working, he's losing control, he's shaken a bottle and he's shaken it too much and now its bubbling
Another example of Lloyd not trusting can be shown in master of the Mountain when he sneaks into Coles room
Uhhhhh. No. Not really that much of a big deal to me.
Why not?
@@Crusty783 Well Lloyd isn’t really one of my favorite characters to begin with. No hate to Lloyd or anything I think he’s a fine character, but I just prefer others. I do feel bad for you poor Lloyd fans. I’m very sorry this happened to you.
Not that it's an excuse for terrible writing, but I think they originally assassinated his character on purpose because he was going to be set up as the true villain this season. From what I gather, they realized it's a stupid idea and pulled it out but never went back and changed his arc.
would not be surprised if this was the case lmao
@@Crusty783 That's how it really went. Tommy Andreasen revealed that he had different ideas for Crystalized: Nya would never become human again. In the finale, The Overlord would kill Garmadon for real and Lloyd would yield to his Oni side and destroy The Overlord once and for all, causing the collapse of the realm of Ninjago due to the lack of the Balance. Then, he would lose control. The ninja and Nya, still merged with the sea, would help him come to his senses as Ninjago collapsed, but for some reason they completely changed the story by making a remake of season 2 but implemented in the present day. Crystalized just gives me the idea of all the seasons of the show putted together pretty badly. It disappointed me but despite this I was partly able to appreciate it.
Ninjago Master of Energy Lloyd in Season 15 Crystallized In my opinion was Done really Great
im glad you enjoyed it :)
Wow
Yeah I thought he was decent. Just inconsistent at times.
@@skylord1846 he was mean to Garmadon for no reason and said some of the dumbest things
😂
He gets redemption in dragons rising literally. Everything said in this video is true he says the oni are incapable of caring. Like what about MYSTAKE it felt like he forgot everything that happened in the oni trilogy in crystallized I feel like they messed up his character for one season just so we could see his oni form. I feel like crystallized didn't need to exist it would've made sense of crystallized was the the end of ninjago but it wasn't so the season feels so misplaced and disoriented
Garmadon basically became Thor in MCU Phase 4. Nya became an even more useless version of Sakura, and PIXAL was even more useless. The 4 Original Ninja do nothing up until the final battle. Lloyd is the worst he’s ever been. (Even worse than he was from Seasons 1-7)
The Overlord is still the worst villain in the entire show, Aspheera never changed, Pythor has no closure, Vangelis is the only good character besides Wu, Mr. F shouldn’t exist, and Harumi has been butchered to minced meat.
Crystalized is worse than Hands of Time, at least Season 7 had some redeeming qualities such as the Time Twins. This season has none
Up until Season 8, Lloyd was already an unlikable character but Crystalized made him even worse than he was prior to Season 8
I think there are redeeming factors of Crystalized but none of them come anywhere near close to being enough to make up for the bad elements
@@Crusty783 Crystalized made me realize that I treated Season 7 too harshly
Or, after finding out that harumi is alive, lloyd has a complete mental breakdown, and that one line sends him over the edge into mood swings and insanity. PTSD has no rules, only that it wrecks people.
Him being a little too emotional in Crystallized is fine as his relationship with his dad is very complicated at that moment. The issue is that he stays that way almost the entire season without learning anything and not applying and showing the lessons and experiences he's learned from
Crystallized is season 16 not 15 get it right next time okay 👌👍
the island counts as a season in some countries
I haven't watched ninjago since the silly genie season. Man I feel old. Shoutout all my homies that remember the first movie dropping.
I think it comes down to whether or not lloyd has learned of harumi's sacrifice. He saw her die but does he know she saved a family before doing so? If he has learned of it, then the scene could be explained with him seeing the good in her before she died and believing she hasn't changed after her revival, that was later proven true as she helped him against the overlord. It seems like he wants to trust her but he can't
Before Ninjago Crystallized Lloyd was one of my top 5 favorite Ninjago characters. But in season 15 Lloyd along with Harumi were the worst characters. He didn’t forgive or support Garmadon who tried to be good but at the same time he easily forgave Harumi who without any regrets killed his friends in front of him (twice), tortured him, turned people into zombies, manipulated him only because he couldn't save her parents. (It’s confirmed that she doesn't know that Pythor had awakened the Great Devourervand from this one can simply conclude that she knew absolutely nothing. And all this anger was because the Ninja "couldn't" save her parents). And she began to fight the Overlord not because she wanted to help Lloyd and the city but because she found out that he was the cause of the Great Devourer. Worst of all Lloyd forgave her simply because he loves her (or suffers from Stockholm Syndrome because how can someone fall in love with a girl that you have known for a maximum of 2 weeks) To be honest I don't know how some people call her kind or even an anti-hero after all this. And it is wrong to justify all Harumi’s actions by the fact that her parents died. It's one thing to feel sorry for a character and another to justify (And she somehow didn't feel sorry for others why should we feel sorry for her then?) To be honest after this season I stopped respecting Lloyd. I hope they improve his character next season. After all before this season Lloyd was quite a good character.
This entire paragraph can be disproved just buy nothing that lloyd never "forgave" her. Allowing an enemy to join ur side is not the same as forgiving.
@@l1ttl3ab77 I can't deny it, but you can't confirm it either. But the fact that he kept saying that he still sees the good in her despite everything she did to him shows that he wants to "forgive" her. And that happy ending scenes where Lloyd walks up to Harumi or how they wave to each other in the monastery. I don’t think he was there with a smile on his face took her by the hand and said that he didn’t forgive her but wanted to see her as an ally. Of course we don't know what they said he forgave her or not but the writers wanted to show that he forgave her. Because if he didn’t forgive her then the writers would have to show it normally and competently.
@@l1ttl3ab77 And you also can't say that my opinion is automatically wrong without really strong arguments. That Lloyd didn't forgive Harumi is also unconfirmed. And judging by the entire series it's even all too clear that Lloyd considered Harumi to be "not just an ally". I absolutely didn’t see a hint that Lloyd didn’t forgive Harumi but I saw a lot of hints (again these are hints, not evidence). that he forgave her that it cannot be denied (but if you are more insightful and educated than me and you see a point that 100% proves that “Lloyd never “forgave” her” and my paragraph “can be disproved absolutely by nothing" then I would like you to enlighten me).
@@WallPunkie except lloyd says he WANTS to see the good in EVRYONE. Not just her. And he tried turning her by the time they got into primeval eye. But at that point he realised it's no use. He never said he sees light in her, he DID infact say that harumi made her choices when she tried making advancements towards him. And he wasnt having it. Theres nothing to signal that he forgave her. Yes he let's her join his side, but that's not forgiveness. Like you said, at this point he sees her as an ally. We shouldnt need confirmation by writers, because the point of a show is to SHOW and not tell. An attentive audience doesnt need to have their hand held throughout the show.
@@WallPunkie to ur second reply, again, nothing suggests that he actually FORGAVE her. Allowing her to be an ally is not automatic forgiveness. Waving to someone doesnt mean forgiveness. Also, something as important as lloyd forgiving harumi would be shown to us. It would be clearly addressed and emphasized, and not put as background interpretation.
I dont know why, Harumi wants to destroy the Ninja for not being able to defeat the devourer in time to save her parents, however she is not mad at all, and instead invites the person who released the devourer PYTHOR to her team. Always baffled me and I think that it was a flaw by the writers, and instead, to make the plot more interesting , they should off added someone like acronix or something
That's a very good point. I thought about that as well.
Pythor's whole thing was reviving the Great Devourer.....the monster that was responsible for Harumi losing her Parents.
Yet Harumi still invited Pythor into the Council.
Surely, she would hate Pythor just as much if not even more.
Forget not being able to *save* your Parents. How about you get revenge on the guy who *caused* the death of your parents in the first place?
@@johannesseyfried7933 Indeed. I think its one of those things that further cements ninjago as truly a kids show, as kids wont really put much thought into it, and would instead just be happy that their favourite snake is back
Watching these kind of videos almost always show the same thing to me. I am horrible at detecting character growth while watching a show, I only understand it after watching someone else explain it to me
NO BUT SAME
Damn.
through the last four seasons of nijago or so i have seen a lot of potential in the writting wated man, its like lego wats to kill ninjago, out of all the original stuff they could do they just seem to do the same over and over..... i wish we could see in a season for example ninja swithcing their powers or for ninja to need to recruit all of the tourament of elements masters, or even to ninja to split in two different teams like kai, cole, zane vs nya, lloyd and jay or lloyd and garmadon separing from the rest of the team to turn garmadon good (like in season 4). I could give ideas for the writters endlessly
I feel like the Harumi interactions are forgivable since Lloyd flat out says he still has feelings for Harumi and that’s probably messing with him still; he wants to believe her and it’s screwing him up. The Garmadon interactions, however, have no excuse
Honestly, I'd rather they'd just picked a dynamic between Lloyd and Harumi and stuck with it. I'd rather they had mutual feelings for each other that they learn to grow through their trust issues and express for each other, but an uneasy alliance could also work. Literally anything that benefits both characters. As for Garmadon, I'd have Lloyd come to realise that perhaps there's good to the Oni that he'd been unable to see. Then later, after a proper apologising to his father and rekindling their father-son relationship, and Lloyd's belief that the Oni can do good, he accepts the Oni part of himself to defeat the Overlord.
This is why I wished Golden Oni Lloyd would’ve been more prevalent, imagine if it had been what reminds Lloyd “hey, wait, not all Oni are evil-“ and then he remembers that Mistake exists and stops being a jerk to Garmadon about him being an Oni. Honestly he had a lot to be angry with Garmadon about in the first place (the fact that he was resurrected from pure evil so the concept of him trying to change is just suspicious in general, for instance) so them choosing to focus on the Oni part just seems really weird.
Sorry if any of this was mentioned in the video, I have a pretty bad memory.
Crystallized already ruined the series but now it has horrible ruined Lloyd’s character
Ruined the series ? Thats a bit too much
@@alexmc973 actually it isn’t crystallized erase the entire message of the show with one episode roots
Silver blade Ninjago Crystalized didn’t “Ruin” the Ninjago Original Series That’s Super Ridiculous and completely Insanely Crazy 😂🙄
@@acronixwoodentrains3058 yes it did
Ok that’s your opinion Jezz 😂
What harumi said is just her perspective, it isn't objective. Lloyd's character development wasn't erased by harumi's dialogue line, it was what she thought abt him. You proved that he has changed and it is true, but later you said that they ruined his change in 16 season and he is trusting everyone back again. I disagree with this. In crystalised we clearly see that lloyd doesn't trust even his father and tries not to fall for harumi's manipiulations, but still he somehow falle for them. There comes decisive factor-love, lloyd is still in love with harumi and in my opinion this is the only reason he falls for her manipiulations.
No crusty why aren't your opinions the same as mine!😭😭
Squidge Everyone has their own opinion me as well I love Ninjago Crystalized if Crusty hates Ninjago Crystalized that’s his Opinion i respect it
@@acronixwoodentrains3058 it was a joke
Oh Sorry 😢
I'm pretty sure Ronin got it worst. For the sake of a twist villain, The Island decided to erase his development from Possession to March of the Oni and make him a villain again. He hates the ninja for no reason, the ninja hate him for no reason, and they lock him away like a common criminal in spite of all he's done for them. And don't get me started on the rest of it, such as how his "plan" doesn't work since nobody will find value in the keeper's treasures so he makes no money and the ninja did more damage by destroying the boat and losing the treasures in the sea instead of making Ronin give them back, because we'll be here all day.
He doesn't hate the ninja, what? Where was that indicated?
I personally liked crystalized. I feel like Lloyd did learn but he hadn’t dealt with the trauma Harumi put him through, making him regress in the season when she returned.
I kind of understood it with Harumi but not with Garmadon. I get that it's been a few years but I doubt he had actually forgotten Mistake.
they just need to redo ninjago season 16
I disagree thatd be an insult to the labour hours spent on it and a spit in the face to those who liked it
@@Crusty783 yeah true
Not season 15 It's 16 the island and sea bound are to separate seasons And It's not My favorite season but I don't think It ruined Lloyd But It is ridiculous that Everything he learned is gone after Like 7 seasons
I wish instead of the ending with the four headed product placement, I wish we had Lloyd channeling both oni and dragon energy and literally becoming god to fight the overlord (god being the first spinjitsu master)
i hate people who call this season 15 its 16 dummie
I think crystallised was aight maybe like b teir
to me garmadon pushed lloyd in some parts and thats why he started to act out more and plus he thought for years harumi was dead and then to see her back id go a little out of wack to if that was me if u had seen the person even tho they treated u awful and did alot of things to u get crushed after they where standing on a building and u think for years they are dead then some evil villain like the overlord comes along brings them back and they confront u dont u think u lose all control
for me, the first 5 minutes of this video just proves that lloyrumi is a toxic ship.
it absolutely is
@@Crusty783 fr
They’re still making this show, I thought it stopped after the tournament of elements 🗿
hate Harumi lmao didn't like her when first introduced didn't like her now
Man imagine how legendary this show would be today if it was traditionally animated. If it looked like Teen titans, avatar, or samurai Jack I'd probably go back to watch it.
Even still the animation the show has at the minute is genuinely stunning