I'm glad that you two are not only enjoying this series but reacting to it with an open mind compared to some other channels who keep projecting their 21st century values onto the series when watching it.
@@NotSoRaisin nothing wrong with their reaction, they are expressing from their perspective. You want a channel projecting bigotry and bias RT TV's reaction to episode 1 was absolutely VILE in its ignorance.
Mariko was the falcon launched by Toranaga's fist to bring down his enemies. Like the falcon in the first episode, they never saw her coming until it was too late.
To explain what was happening with the ninjas, Ishido wanted to kidnap Mariko so it would seem like she left the other noblewomen behind. It avoids the dilemma of either Mariko leaving with the hostages or making it seem like Mariko was not allowed to leave. Mariko's death was not meant to happen. The blast was merely meant to open the door. It was also why Yabu kept telling Mariko to go to the gate. Yabu knew she would get kidnapped there.
Ishido sent them to get her, "without his knowledge". Mariko gave them an ultimatum, kill me or let me go. If you let me go, you lose. If you make me kill myself, you lose. So Ishido gave her permission to leave, but then SOMEONE (Ishido) sent men to capture her at night. That way he could go "Well I don't know what happened.. maybe someone else did it to get her. But I let her go"
This keeps being repeated on reaction vids but it is wrong. This wouldn’t help Ishido in any way, shape, or form. What he wanted, and needed, was for it to appear to everyone else as if she was gone but still secretly kept his leverage over her and her Lord. The shinobi were supposed to secretly take her and the women with the help of Yoshii but he freaked on the deal at the end and threw the plan to shit. The plan wasn’t a “oh hey i let her go but there was a random attack”. It was a “yeah she already left” plan.
@@zimvader25 You are wrong. No matter who else saw it happen, the plan was to kidnap Mariko and then deny knowledge of the plot. This saves Ishido's honor and gives him an excuse to deny the other permits he begrudgingly had to give to the other noble houses. It helps Ishido immensely by getting rid of his only obstacle and stopping the other hostages from leaving.
@@kharilane1340 but then it would have proven too that the castle wasn't a safe place to be as random someones can come and go to kidnap anybody and then the "guests" would have a legitimate excuse to leave without being stopped
@@kavzz918 It also showed Ishido is a peasant when he called it "Excellent". Any noble born would be well-versed in poetry and recognize it as a bad poem not matching with the season.
Top on-screen heroines this century so far imho, by decade: 2000s: Lady Eowyn, _The Lord of the Rings_ 2010s: Brienne of Tarth, Lyanna Mormont, and (maybe) Arya Stark, _Game of Thrones_ 2020s: Toda Mariko, _Shogun_ Of the five, I'd place Mariko above all. Not just because of her grace and strength of will -- which remained immaculately feminine -- but mainly because she's the least fictional of all.
When Mariko grabs John's hand after he asks her to "live for him", Her look back at him feels more like "...in another life". Him asking her that question exposed Blackthorne's true heart and her look and hand grab showed she would've gladly accepted his heart, but duty calls. Farewell, Mariko-Sama.🌸
@@pangkaji The entire show demonstrated his lack of understanding of the culture. Lol Mariko's gesture was her peeking out from behind her Eight Fold Fence to say "I wish I could go away with you and take that walk along the Thames river".
As tragic as it was, Mariko's death was sort of "perfect". She had wanted to die ever since the execution of her father and the rest of her family. Her death also helped further Toranaga's cause, which was the same cause that her father had died for (Toranaga was behind Mariko's father's actions). Mariko had been prepared to commit seppuku even though, as a Christian, it would be a mortal sin to commit suicide. But by dying in the explosion instead, she was able to die without technically committing suicide.
This is the true crimson sky - a direct attack on Osaka castle. It is not a military attack, but political attack - and Mariko is the weapon. The sunset at when Mariko first attempt to commit suicide is a crimson sky. And when she actually die in the explosion, the sky is crimson from the fire. Toranaga uses Mariko's desire for death as a tool in his plan, he fly her like a falcon. It is even more amazing (and scary) considered that he is the one that planed, or might even pushed, Mariko's father to betrayed and assassinated their lord. Meaning Toranaga is the one that caused Mariko's suffering in the first place and then further use said suffering in his next plan to his advantage. It is right that Ochiba fears Toranaga so much.
That's right. The real Tokugawa Ieyasu He was a very strategist. The end of Ochiha no Kata (Toyotomi Yodo-dono), who fell into Ieyasu's trap, was terrifying.
Mariko's father would have at least tried to assassinate Goroda with or without Toranaga's assistance. Remember it was Toranaga who stopped Akechi from rushing to save those monks. Toranaga stopped it from being a rash attack and turned it into a calculated one that worked. Notice when Mariko's son says he's to marry Kiyama's granddaughter she counters with the fact that only Toranaga can approve such a union in his vassal house. He has total control of his vassal's lives. Toranaga orchestrated the marriage between the son (Buntaro) of his right-hand man (Hiromatsu) to help secure her safety and put her in a position to strike the final blow against Nakamura, the warlord who avenged Goroda's assassination by capturing and forcing Akechi's family's destruction and his seppuku.
I love how there's already a compilation on YT with all of Yabushige's grunts during the show :D Regarding the "leafless branches": There's definitely a connection to Lady Ochiba, since her name translates to "fallen leafes". Ishido's plan was to capture Mariko, he couldn't kill her or let her go, so he had to capture her. Which is why Yabushige wanted them to go to the gate instead. (I missed that point as well) Note how Mariko used her father's name "Akechi" in the very end as well.
16:29 The way they frame Mariko and Ochiba on the camera's cross hairs in this shot, to me is simple brilliance. So effective and poignant. After I finished watching this show I hunted down the official soundtrack. The music we often hear when our attention is on Mariko, particularly as her character reaches her apotheosis is titled "The Pull of Death". The tragedy in her story really hits hard when you hear that track in isolation.
I don't think she was a good Christian though... she prioritized her earthly lord and his little political games before true Lord and transcendental truth.
Start from “Remaining snow“is from Sougi, The master of Japanese linked poem. “ Kare e “ from 謝霊運 Shareiun ←Japanese pronunciation the master of chinese poem 長歌行 枯枝無醜葉 ←meaning “Ugly falling leaves disappear and waiting new leafs “ story about The rise and fall of life Sougi poem said Spring is beatifl even remaining snow and dusk.😊Yes, I think it's double meaning too✨Sorry for my bad English😅
Seppuku was actually common for women of the samurai class, and women often followed their husbands, fathers, or lords into death after a defeat, especially if enemy soldiers were approaching and there was a risk of the women being taken prisoner. It was customary for women to tie their legs together for seppuku, so that their bodies would fall "gracefully", and they wouldnt be disgraced by their legs sprawling in an unladylike way.
Mariko's seppuku attempt was at sunset which is when the sun is red in the sky. Crimson Sky. In episode 1 when Toranaga asked Mariko if her religion was going to affect her service to him is because as a Christian she could not self delete but that is what was required for Toranaga's plan. This was Toranaga's plan all along.
Mariko at the first competition against Ochiba, she says: ''While the snow remains, Veiled in the haze of cold evening, A leafless branch...'' At the second confrontation she said this time: ''Flowers are only flowers because they fall.'' I believe many educated people could translate better but I just wanna try it: Fallen leaves is Ochiba. A leafless branch is Mariko on the poem. Mariko wanted to say that at the first competition about her condition how she feels. While the snow remains means as long as bad people rule. Veiled in the haze of cold evening means that her heart still cold, away and resentful. Also last time they found Mariko in a cold evening lying down on the snow when she escaped. A leafless branch means she has no family no friends that she feels so alone even she misses Ochiba particularly. At the second conversation Ochiba opens her heart to Mariko that she misses her too but she also says cannot recognise Mariko anymore. And Ochiba accuses Mariko that Mariko wants to kill herself and leave her alone just like in that cold evening before. Then Mariko says: Accepting death isn't surrender. (Because Ochiba said surrendering is a pointless death. Ochina thinks that she has no power to kill herself and letting her son as an orphan) Finally Mariko says: ''Flowers are only flowers because they fall'' as a goodbye to her beloved friend. Its also encouragement and reminding Ochiba's capable power. Simply she says be like a flower and fall. That means brake the bonds with İshido like you did with me before. This is my understandings from these sentences.
Hosokawa Gracia, who was the real life model for Mariko, death poem was, Only By Knowing When To Fall Do Flowers Become Flowers And People Become People
Watching your reactions to this show, I've got to say there's a few things you guys caught right away that I didn't when I was watching it. I like the little detail Haylo points out when Yabushige gets the message from Ishido where he says he accepts his offer of service instead of death & instead of it being formally written it's only passed to him via word of mouth. It's a small detail but an important one regardless, & I like that I can notice these things when watching other people's reactions. Also, I saw someone say Blackthorne drawing that straight line in the zen garden was like a gesture of showing his frustration at the whole situation with Mariko...Like "drawing a line in the sand" type of thing which I thought was an interesting way of looking at it.
私も線を引いた時すぐわからなくて考えましたが、恐らく砂の模様は海の流れであり、それは現状の流れでそれに線を引くことで流れを寸断したい気持ちの表れではないでしょうか？ 流れを止めれば死ぬことも阻止出来るという願望です。 I thought about it, too, because I didn't understand it right away when he drew the line, but perhaps the pattern in the sand is the current of the ocean, and it is an expression of the desire to interrupt the current by drawing a line in the current. It is his desire to stop the current so he can stop her from dying.
Girls, first of all you two look amazing :) Your reaction when seeing Mariko was exploded is exactly like mine! And there was a hint about "crimson" sky, if you look at Mariko's kimono when she walked into the hall, there the crimson mixed with black (cloud) pattern. And personally I interpreted that the white(snow) outter kimono is to make her look like a pure and lofty noble lady, but inside she is the crimson sky herself.
The model of Mariko in the history was Ganesha Hosokawa, who committed suicide as a hostage and asked her staff in advance to destroy the house by bombs after her death. She wrote in fact a famous last poem with falling flowers. After this shocking incident no Samurais did not take tactics to hold hostages,
I know everyone has their own opinion but I think Mariko's response to Ochiba putting her on the spot about the poem was actually a threat. "While the snow remains... veiled in the haze of cold evening... a leafless branch... " Remember, Ochiba was the only woman to give the Taikō an heir but he was sterile so she secretly slept with a peasant to get pregnant. Mariko knows that the heir to the throne is NOT the Taikō's son and she knows that Ochiba doesn't want anyone to figure it out. If we reconsider the line Mariko gives, it now has a very different direction. Just my thought.
Thats not true. Thats just speculation. Never is it shown in the show or confirmed by anyone. In fact we did see that she was taking a bunch of drugs and that she was sleeping with the Taiko and how she made it clear to Ishido how hard it was to get the Taikos son. So there is actually way more proof in the show that its indeed the Taikos son.
@@teongreen5254 There are certainly differences in both television versions from the source material but this is from a detailed review of Clavell's novel by D. S. Christensen: "Also of note was Ochiba, the widow of the deceased Taiko and mother to the young heir Yaemon. She was set up as a bit of a black widow spider but readers would later get insights into her situation. To begin with, the heir was actually her child via a peasant. Ochiba had needed to protect her position since her husband had issues with fertility and she didn’t want to be replaced. Hence, she found a way to give him the son that he’d long desired. Marriage to Ochiba would later be used as a chip in the overall political dealings, although she would eventually reveal what seemed to be a legitimate attraction to Toranaga." Whether the showrunners for this newest iteration went with the Taiko being the biological father or not is not revealed but, as I mentioned in my comment, it's just a thought.
I am Japanese and I am really happy to see you two enjoying Shogun. And I am also impressed with their deeper understanding of this show. I am looking forward to seeing your reactions to the final episode!
Consider, please, Ladies, in an honor culture, like feudal Japan, if a powerful man is defied publicly in such a way that he’s seen to back down publicly then it’s not hard to predict that he’ll strike back, shall we say, privately, is it? The important consideration in an honor/revenge culture (There are MANY around the world), is the restoration of your honor/getting your revenge. The method or length of time is immaterial. If someone who has been seen to defy you ends up dead, that’s the most important consideration.
It was a huge mistake for ISHIDO to do this to Mariko, who is a Christian and comes from a highly samurai "AKECHI" family that has been around for over 1000 years, because all of noble families and Christian would stop supporting ISHIDO. On the other hand, Mariko was able to wipe away the stigma of her father, who killed his master "KURODA", by risking her life for her master "TORANAGA", and made her feel at peace as a Christian at the same time.
On the ‘pretty city’ observation, do keep in mind that Japan has not yet industrialized. European cities were filthy, crowded, stinky and would, for the most part, get worse.
@@nokta7373 I’m NOT talking Ford and the Model T but all leading nations of the time had robust firearms industries, the ability to manufacture much longer range cannon as well as long-distance, blue water capabilities FAR beyond the capabilities of Japan at the time. Also, maybe I didn’t write my post as clearly as I could but I was saying two different things: European cities were filthy, crowded and stinky AND they were beginning to industrialize, NOT filthy, crowded etc BECAUSE of Industrialization.
@@MrSmithla industry and industrialization are two different things, tho. They were able to produce more advanced firearms and in more number than Japan for sure, but what defines industrializion is the automation of the process of production and the shifting of society from mainly agrarian-centric to manufacturing-centric. Industrialization in Europe only started around 1750 when the steam engine became a widespread technology to drive the production of goods. Before that and especially in 1600 they still had not had the age on elightenment, they would still makes things mainly by hand and the society was still pretty much agrarian so it can't really be considered "industrialized" regardless how many cannons they made.
@@nokta7373 No, no, industrialization started in the garment industries along rivers. The Water Frame, the Powered Loom, industrial thread-making, dumping the factory’s garbage into the river. Steam power just meant factories didn’t have to be along rivers anymore. By the time steam powered factories came along in England, for instance, the rivers were already full of sludge and industrial runoff.
I just finished last night. Episode 9 really ruined my night. Had no more intentions of finishing episode 10 but gutted it out. 😑 I would of preferred a better ending
Yea, these last couple episodes are where the show kind of loses me. None of the 'noble sacrifices' really mean anything, Toranaga's 'plan', if you can even call it a plan, is kind of garbage, and the final episode is very anticlimactic. Overall I just don't see why everyone is raving about how amazing this show is. I would rather watch Blue Eye Samurai over this.
I hope you'll bring Vikings as future tv show reaction. It's a tv show on the line of Shogun with a beatifull story and incredible shots🤩(a little bit more barbaric but on the same line😂)
I mean to me her death is just pointless. An amazing character but the main thing about her was her wanting to die. "Accepting death is not surrendering.", yes, it quite literally is the definition of it. Also at the end of the show when you find out the entire purpose behind Toranaga's plans, you can easily see how every single death was just pointless to absolutely everyone except Toranaga.
(Spoiler - altho Im pretty sure they both alrdy watched EP10 on Patreon). None of the deaths were pointless. Nagakados death gave his father the time he needed (otherwise the death of his Brother would have accomplished the same). Hiromatsus death was the only way to fully convince Yabushige, what set the whole crimson sky plan in motion. Marikos death was the only way to 100% convince Ochiba, to betray Ishido. If Mariko would have left, the other hostages would have too - that would have weakend Ishido. He had to make a move, but he also couldnt have her killed (thats why the Shinobi are not trying to kill, but to kidnapp her - there was no way for her to complete the mission, without killing herself. And no, accepting death is not surrender, if your death is what makes your enemies fall.
@@SovermanandVioboy Yes and at the end we literally find out that Toranaga's reason is selfish and his actions incredibly psychopatic, hence me saying the deaths were pointless.
I'm glad that you two are not only enjoying this series but reacting to it with an open mind compared to some other channels who keep projecting their 21st century values onto the series when watching it.
Exactly 💯
Like who? Name them.
Diegesis
@@NotSoRaisin nothing wrong with their reaction, they are expressing from their perspective.
You want a channel projecting bigotry and bias RT TV's reaction to episode 1 was absolutely VILE in its ignorance.
@@KDA8919 alright I'm going to report you for false engagement harassment.
Mariko was the falcon launched by Toranaga's fist to bring down his enemies. Like the falcon in the first episode, they never saw her coming until it was too late.
oof, the visuals, hiding behind the sun, standing behind the blast. amazing.
Good observation!
To explain what was happening with the ninjas, Ishido wanted to kidnap Mariko so it would seem like she left the other noblewomen behind. It avoids the dilemma of either Mariko leaving with the hostages or making it seem like Mariko was not allowed to leave. Mariko's death was not meant to happen. The blast was merely meant to open the door. It was also why Yabu kept telling Mariko to go to the gate. Yabu knew she would get kidnapped there.
It also gives Ishido an excuse to cancel everyone's permits, ostensibly to "investigate" the suddenly missing Mariko. For their safety, of course.
When Anjin and Yabu have that mutual surprised grunt, I lost it.
Ishido sent them to get her, "without his knowledge". Mariko gave them an ultimatum, kill me or let me go. If you let me go, you lose. If you make me kill myself, you lose. So Ishido gave her permission to leave, but then SOMEONE (Ishido) sent men to capture her at night. That way he could go "Well I don't know what happened.. maybe someone else did it to get her. But I let her go"
This keeps being repeated on reaction vids but it is wrong. This wouldn’t help Ishido in any way, shape, or form. What he wanted, and needed, was for it to appear to everyone else as if she was gone but still secretly kept his leverage over her and her Lord. The shinobi were supposed to secretly take her and the women with the help of Yoshii but he freaked on the deal at the end and threw the plan to shit. The plan wasn’t a “oh hey i let her go but there was a random attack”. It was a “yeah she already left” plan.
@@zimvader25 You are wrong. No matter who else saw it happen, the plan was to kidnap Mariko and then deny knowledge of the plot. This saves Ishido's honor and gives him an excuse to deny the other permits he begrudgingly had to give to the other noble houses. It helps Ishido immensely by getting rid of his only obstacle and stopping the other hostages from leaving.
@@kharilane1340 but then it would have proven too that the castle wasn't a safe place to be as random someones can come and go to kidnap anybody and then the "guests" would have a legitimate excuse to leave without being stopped
@@lalia346 He takes care of that by saying he has closed the roads until his troops can assure that the noble families can travel unmolested.
"Ochiba" is "fallen leaves" in English. Withering in the spring was a veiled secret message to Ochiba questioning if she had lost her way.
Omg that is so clever. I was thinking it was calling out Ishido that he has no power to control them. "A leafless branch". Nothing to cover itself.
@@kavzz918 It also showed Ishido is a peasant when he called it "Excellent". Any noble born would be well-versed in poetry and recognize it as a bad poem not matching with the season.
@@ntguru5 Ohh interesting!
And the kanji for Toranaga means eternal tiger iirc
Never would have I thought that someone offering to behead another person would be the most romantic thing I'd see on screen in years 🥲
Top on-screen heroines this century so far imho, by decade:
2000s: Lady Eowyn, _The Lord of the Rings_
2010s: Brienne of Tarth, Lyanna Mormont, and (maybe) Arya Stark, _Game of Thrones_
2020s: Toda Mariko, _Shogun_
Of the five, I'd place Mariko above all. Not just because of her grace and strength of will -- which remained immaculately feminine -- but mainly because she's the least fictional of all.
"Stop fidgeting...no not you!" had me doing a pretty healthy belly laugh
Blackthorne was actually volunteering to go to hell instead of Mariko by acting as her second. Someone said it was the most romantic act possible.
Great reaction, you guys engage with the story in a much deeper way than most reactors I've seen. Glad i found your channel. ❤👍
When Mariko grabs John's hand after he asks her to "live for him", Her look back at him feels more like "...in another life". Him asking her that question exposed Blackthorne's true heart and her look and hand grab showed she would've gladly accepted his heart, but duty calls.
Farewell, Mariko-Sama.🌸
Blackthorn asking her that question exposes his lack of understanding of the eastern culture.
@@pangkaji The entire show demonstrated his lack of understanding of the culture. Lol
Mariko's gesture was her peeking out from behind her Eight Fold Fence to say "I wish I could go away with you and take that walk along the Thames river".
This show has such a perfect flow .... what a gem of a show.
As tragic as it was, Mariko's death was sort of "perfect". She had wanted to die ever since the execution of her father and the rest of her family. Her death also helped further Toranaga's cause, which was the same cause that her father had died for (Toranaga was behind Mariko's father's actions). Mariko had been prepared to commit seppuku even though, as a Christian, it would be a mortal sin to commit suicide. But by dying in the explosion instead, she was able to die without technically committing suicide.
This is the true crimson sky - a direct attack on Osaka castle. It is not a military attack, but political attack - and Mariko is the weapon. The sunset at when Mariko first attempt to commit suicide is a crimson sky. And when she actually die in the explosion, the sky is crimson from the fire.
Toranaga uses Mariko's desire for death as a tool in his plan, he fly her like a falcon. It is even more amazing (and scary) considered that he is the one that planed, or might even pushed, Mariko's father to betrayed and assassinated their lord. Meaning Toranaga is the one that caused Mariko's suffering in the first place and then further use said suffering in his next plan to his advantage.
It is right that Ochiba fears Toranaga so much.
That's right.
The real Tokugawa Ieyasu
He was a very strategist. The end of Ochiha no Kata (Toyotomi Yodo-dono), who fell into Ieyasu's trap, was terrifying.
Mariko's father would have at least tried to assassinate Goroda with or without Toranaga's assistance. Remember it was Toranaga who stopped Akechi from rushing to save those monks. Toranaga stopped it from being a rash attack and turned it into a calculated one that worked. Notice when Mariko's son says he's to marry Kiyama's granddaughter she counters with the fact that only Toranaga can approve such a union in his vassal house. He has total control of his vassal's lives. Toranaga orchestrated the marriage between the son (Buntaro) of his right-hand man (Hiromatsu) to help secure her safety and put her in a position to strike the final blow against Nakamura, the warlord who avenged Goroda's assassination by capturing and forcing Akechi's family's destruction and his seppuku.
Many people miss that Mariko wears a crimson Kimono when trying to leave the castle.
14:18 - Mariko: "I will take my life at sunset." Hmm... When the sky is crimson?
I love how there's already a compilation on YT with all of Yabushige's grunts during the show :D
Regarding the "leafless branches": There's definitely a connection to Lady Ochiba, since her name translates to "fallen leafes".
Ishido's plan was to capture Mariko, he couldn't kill her or let her go, so he had to capture her. Which is why Yabushige wanted them to go to the gate instead. (I missed that point as well)
Note how Mariko used her father's name "Akechi" in the very end as well.
16:29 The way they frame Mariko and Ochiba on the camera's cross hairs in this shot, to me is simple brilliance. So effective and poignant.
After I finished watching this show I hunted down the official soundtrack. The music we often hear when our attention is on Mariko, particularly as her character reaches her apotheosis is titled "The Pull of Death". The tragedy in her story really hits hard when you hear that track in isolation.
The ninjas were not trying to kill Mariko. They wanted to kidnap her. That way Ishido would prevent her from leaving, and prevent her to die.
“I can only confess that I am not worthy enough to confess” is a hella sad line
I don't think she was a good Christian though... she prioritized her earthly lord and his little political games before true Lord and transcendental truth.
Mariko is wearing a crimson kimono underneath a falling leaves and leafless branch outer.
Mariko's poem DID mean something to Ochiba, Ochiba means Fallen Leaves
Start from “Remaining snow“is from Sougi, The master of Japanese linked poem. “ Kare e “ from 謝霊運 Shareiun ←Japanese pronunciation the master of chinese poem 長歌行 枯枝無醜葉 ←meaning “Ugly falling leaves disappear and waiting new leafs “ story about The rise and fall of life
Sougi poem said Spring is beatifl even remaining snow and dusk.😊Yes, I think it's double meaning too✨Sorry for my bad English😅
Seppuku was actually common for women of the samurai class, and women often followed their husbands, fathers, or lords into death after a defeat, especially if enemy soldiers were approaching and there was a risk of the women being taken prisoner. It was customary for women to tie their legs together for seppuku, so that their bodies would fall "gracefully", and they wouldnt be disgraced by their legs sprawling in an unladylike way.
Wasn't the tradition for women to cut their throat/jugular though, rather than to commit suicide by belly-cutting?
女性の自害は短刀で喉を突きます。切腹は基本的に男性のみです。
Mariko's seppuku attempt was at sunset which is when the sun is red in the sky. Crimson Sky. In episode 1 when Toranaga asked Mariko if her religion was going to affect her service to him is because as a Christian she could not self delete but that is what was required for Toranaga's plan. This was Toranaga's plan all along.
Mariko at the first competition against Ochiba, she says:
''While the snow remains,
Veiled in the haze of cold evening,
A leafless branch...''
At the second confrontation she said this time:
''Flowers are only flowers because they fall.''
I believe many educated people could translate better but I just wanna try it: Fallen leaves is Ochiba. A leafless branch is Mariko on the poem.
Mariko wanted to say that at the first competition about her condition how she feels. While the snow remains means as long as bad people rule. Veiled in the haze of cold evening means that her heart still cold, away and resentful. Also last time they found Mariko in a cold evening lying down on the snow when she escaped. A leafless branch means she has no family no friends that she feels so alone even she misses Ochiba particularly.
At the second conversation Ochiba opens her heart to Mariko that she misses her too but she also says cannot recognise Mariko anymore. And Ochiba accuses Mariko that Mariko wants to kill herself and leave her alone just like in that cold evening before.
Then Mariko says: Accepting death isn't surrender. (Because Ochiba said surrendering is a pointless death. Ochina thinks that she has no power to kill herself and letting her son as an orphan)
Finally Mariko says: ''Flowers are only flowers because they fall'' as a goodbye to her beloved friend. Its also encouragement and reminding Ochiba's capable power. Simply she says be like a flower and fall. That means brake the bonds with İshido like you did with me before.
This is my understandings from these sentences.
Ochiba means “fallen leaves”. With this context, you may get the significance of the “leafless branch” in the poetry.
Mariko-sama‘s white kimono had leafless branches on it.
17:17 "Flowers are only flowers becuase they fall" Translatiion: "LIfe is only life because we die"
For anyone needing that translation: this series is not for you 🙂 ...
Not bad… if I may, I would add that we all die eventually but flowers bloom and only for that our lives are meaningful.
Hosokawa Gracia, who was the real life model for Mariko, death poem was,
Only By Knowing When To Fall Do
Flowers Become Flowers
And People Become People
Valar Morghulis.
とんでもない翻訳です。死ぬべき時には毅然として潔く死ぬことが美しいのだという美観を言っているのです。細川ガラシャの辞世の句を読んでください。
They wanted to capture her, not kill here.
Working for Toranaga is no Joke!
No doubt. It's a rough gig.
That was Toranaga's piece of the puzzle to become Shogun! This piece was "Crimson Sky" and the execution of it.
This is the episode that won Anna Sawai an Emmy
Anna Sawai deserves an Emmy for this
鞠子のモデルは細川ガラシャです
By capturing Mariko alive, Ishido could prevent her martyrdom.
RIP to a real one 1 🙏🏾😎💯
Watching your reactions to this show, I've got to say there's a few things you guys caught right away that I didn't when I was watching it. I like the little detail Haylo points out when Yabushige gets the message from Ishido where he says he accepts his offer of service instead of death & instead of it being formally written it's only passed to him via word of mouth. It's a small detail but an important one regardless, & I like that I can notice these things when watching other people's reactions.
Also, I saw someone say Blackthorne drawing that straight line in the zen garden was like a gesture of showing his frustration at the whole situation with Mariko...Like "drawing a line in the sand" type of thing which I thought was an interesting way of looking at it.
私も線を引いた時すぐわからなくて考えましたが、恐らく砂の模様は海の流れであり、それは現状の流れでそれに線を引くことで流れを寸断したい気持ちの表れではないでしょうか？ 流れを止めれば死ぬことも阻止出来るという願望です。 I thought about it, too, because I didn't understand it right away when he drew the line, but perhaps the pattern in the sand is the current of the ocean, and it is an expression of the desire to interrupt the current by drawing a line in the current. It is his desire to stop the current so he can stop her from dying.
Girls, first of all you two look amazing :)
Your reaction when seeing Mariko was exploded is exactly like mine!
And there was a hint about "crimson" sky, if you look at Mariko's kimono when she walked into the hall, there the crimson mixed with black (cloud) pattern. And personally I interpreted that the white(snow) outter kimono is to make her look like a pure and lofty noble lady, but inside she is the crimson sky herself.
If you want a show with a slimilar vibe as this and Arcane, try "Blue Eyed Samurai."
The model of Mariko in the history was Ganesha Hosokawa, who committed suicide as a hostage and asked her staff in advance to destroy the house by bombs after her death. She wrote in fact a famous last poem with falling flowers.
After this shocking incident no Samurais did not take tactics to hold hostages,
Love youre reactions, may have cried along with you haha
PS, did you notice what Color Mariko was wearing at the meeting? This show is so soo good.
I was waiting both of you to react to this very episode.
Not disappointed me. You guys are awesome.
15:16 Gotta love 'The Look' Lady Ochiba shoots the other guy.
I know everyone has their own opinion but I think Mariko's response to Ochiba putting her on the spot about the poem was actually a threat. "While the snow remains... veiled in the haze of cold evening... a leafless branch... " Remember, Ochiba was the only woman to give the Taikō an heir but he was sterile so she secretly slept with a peasant to get pregnant. Mariko knows that the heir to the throne is NOT the Taikō's son and she knows that Ochiba doesn't want anyone to figure it out. If we reconsider the line Mariko gives, it now has a very different direction. Just my thought.
I always wonder the meaning of the episode she had to take herbs that Daioin prepared and who she actually slept with. I appreciate your insights 😊
Is the bit about Ochiba sleeping with a peasant in the actual show, or is it just from the book? I completely missed it if it was the former.
Thats not true. Thats just speculation. Never is it shown in the show or confirmed by anyone. In fact we did see that she was taking a bunch of drugs and that she was sleeping with the Taiko and how she made it clear to Ishido how hard it was to get the Taikos son. So there is actually way more proof in the show that its indeed the Taikos son.
@@teongreen5254 There are certainly differences in both television versions from the source material but this is from a detailed review of Clavell's novel by D. S. Christensen: "Also of note was Ochiba, the widow of the deceased Taiko and mother to the young heir Yaemon. She was set up as a bit of a black widow spider but readers would later get insights into her situation. To begin with, the heir was actually her child via a peasant. Ochiba had needed to protect her position since her husband had issues with fertility and she didn’t want to be replaced. Hence, she found a way to give him the son that he’d long desired. Marriage to Ochiba would later be used as a chip in the overall political dealings, although she would eventually reveal what seemed to be a legitimate attraction to Toranaga." Whether the showrunners for this newest iteration went with the Taiko being the biological father or not is not revealed but, as I mentioned in my comment, it's just a thought.
I am watching this channel since Episode 1, great reactions.
Episode 10 was hard to watch, but was a great end to this mini series.
I am Japanese and I am really happy to see you two enjoying Shogun. And I am also impressed with their deeper understanding of this show. I am looking forward to seeing your reactions to the final episode!
18:57 From this angle priestboy's head looks like saturn
Yep, she's gone. (The plan is set in motion....)
Consider, please, Ladies, in an honor culture, like feudal Japan, if a powerful man is defied publicly in such a way that he’s seen to back down publicly then it’s not hard to predict that he’ll strike back, shall we say, privately, is it?
The important consideration in an honor/revenge culture (There are MANY around the world), is the restoration of your honor/getting your revenge. The method or length of time is immaterial.
If someone who has been seen to defy you ends up dead, that’s the most important consideration.
YO It's been like 20 minutes! Lets get 10 out ladies!
Another insane episode!
It was a huge mistake for ISHIDO to do this to Mariko, who is a Christian and comes from a highly samurai "AKECHI" family that has been around for over 1000 years, because all of noble families and Christian would stop supporting ISHIDO. On the other hand, Mariko was able to wipe away the stigma of her father, who killed his master "KURODA", by risking her life for her master "TORANAGA", and made her feel at peace as a Christian at the same time.
city was built in vancouver canada for filming , village and port is real , its built for real . i used to hang out this area before ,
Your episode 10 reaction is gonna be EPIC!
I enjoyed your journey watching this show :) Liked and Subbed!
crazy how i just finished you gues reacting to ep 8 lol, this ep gonna be a ride
二人ともリアクションがとても純粋でとても好感が持てます。
If you want to feel a sense of Japaneseness, I recommend watching The Twilight Samurai. It will give you an insight into the real life of the samurai.
I legit felt empty after the final episode.
Mariko is about 1000x more badass than any female "superhero"
Waiting for ur demon slayer season 4 episode 1 reaction!!!
Nobody is prepared for Crimson Sky.
The most pathetic person right now is actually Buntaro. After losing his father, his wife was cuckolded and then she's gonna die. Poor Buntaro😭
On the other hand, the "real" Buntaro lived longer than any of the other principals here despite serving as a great warrior in many battles. Irony.
On the ‘pretty city’ observation, do keep in mind that Japan has not yet industrialized. European cities were filthy, crowded, stinky and would, for the most part, get worse.
1600 Europe wasn't industrialized either. Industrialization in EU didn't happen for at least another 150 years.
@@nokta7373 I’m NOT talking Ford and the Model T but all leading nations of the time had robust firearms industries, the ability to manufacture much longer range cannon as well as long-distance, blue water capabilities FAR beyond the capabilities of Japan at the time.
Also, maybe I didn’t write my post as clearly as I could but I was saying two different things: European cities were filthy, crowded and stinky AND they were beginning to industrialize, NOT filthy, crowded etc BECAUSE of Industrialization.
@@MrSmithla industry and industrialization are two different things, tho. They were able to produce more advanced firearms and in more number than Japan for sure, but what defines industrializion is the automation of the process of production and the shifting of society from mainly agrarian-centric to manufacturing-centric. Industrialization in Europe only started around 1750 when the steam engine became a widespread technology to drive the production of goods. Before that and especially in 1600 they still had not had the age on elightenment, they would still makes things mainly by hand and the society was still pretty much agrarian so it can't really be considered "industrialized" regardless how many cannons they made.
@@nokta7373 No, no, industrialization started in the garment industries along rivers. The Water Frame, the Powered Loom, industrial thread-making, dumping the factory’s garbage into the river. Steam power just meant factories didn’t have to be along rivers anymore. By the time steam powered factories came along in England, for instance, the rivers were already full of sludge and industrial runoff.
@@MrSmithla I suggest you take another look at the definition of industrialization. Because what you mean by it is not what historians mean by it.
I just finished last night. Episode 9 really ruined my night. Had no more intentions of finishing episode 10 but gutted it out. 😑 I would of preferred a better ending
Yea, these last couple episodes are where the show kind of loses me. None of the 'noble sacrifices' really mean anything, Toranaga's 'plan', if you can even call it a plan, is kind of garbage, and the final episode is very anticlimactic. Overall I just don't see why everyone is raving about how amazing this show is. I would rather watch Blue Eye Samurai over this.
Where is the last episode reaction???
Hope you watch the Boys or True Detective S1 after Shogun
Season 2 is almost confirmed if not 100% allready.
I hope you'll bring Vikings as future tv show reaction. It's a tv show on the line of Shogun with a beatifull story and incredible shots🤩(a little bit more barbaric but on the same line😂)
Do a Beef reaction pls 👍
You girls are so cute
Please react on peaky blinders
この姉妹、本当に好き🩷 西洋人にしては珍しく○顔。かわいい。妹ちゃんが面白い。
I believe Mariko is alive for season 2!
I mean to me her death is just pointless. An amazing character but the main thing about her was her wanting to die. "Accepting death is not surrendering.", yes, it quite literally is the definition of it. Also at the end of the show when you find out the entire purpose behind Toranaga's plans, you can easily see how every single death was just pointless to absolutely everyone except Toranaga.
(Spoiler - altho Im pretty sure they both alrdy watched EP10 on Patreon).
None of the deaths were pointless. Nagakados death gave his father the time he needed (otherwise the death of his Brother would have accomplished the same). Hiromatsus death was the only way to fully convince Yabushige, what set the whole crimson sky plan in motion. Marikos death was the only way to 100% convince Ochiba, to betray Ishido.
If Mariko would have left, the other hostages would have too - that would have weakend Ishido. He had to make a move, but he also couldnt have her killed (thats why the Shinobi are not trying to kill, but to kidnapp her - there was no way for her to complete the mission, without killing herself.
And no, accepting death is not surrender, if your death is what makes your enemies fall.
@@SovermanandVioboy Yes and at the end we literally find out that Toranaga's reason is selfish and his actions incredibly psychopatic, hence me saying the deaths were pointless.