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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ม.ค. 2024
- With more power and less weight, is the 2019+ ND2 really worth the premium over a 2013-2015 NC3?
2013 MX-5 Miata NC3 mod list:
Base 5 speed
Torsen LSD
Sakebomb/MiataSpeed Öhlins DFV
RX-8 front sway bar
Tire Rack 17x9 wheels with 245/40/17 Hankook RS4
AEM intake and tune
2019 MX-5 Miata ND2 mod list:
Edelbrock supercharger (5psi)
Titan 7 wheels
Dunlop Direzza ZIII
Wilwood BBK
Hawk HP Plus
Sakebomb/MiataSpeed Öhlins DFV long stroke (6k/4k)
Factory LSD
235/40/17 Dunlop Direzza ZIII
Goodwin RoadsterSport SuperStreet exhaust
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Email me if you'd like me to review your car: zygrene@gmail.com - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Every time I go down tge rabbit hole watching videos about other cars, I watch a Miata video which takes me back to reality where Miata is always the answer. I love my ND2 so much.
I do the same exact shit 😅
Cayman is the real answer
@@svang1991 Different price range.
Nah, NA1 is the real answer. Always.
@@oraclemiata845yawn
I get doing what you can with the cars available, but the comparison kinda falls apart for me when it's some guy's unique set of mods vs some other guy's mods.
Great video, I have driven every GEN Miata and the best Miata is the one you’re in. I have a 1999 NB1 with a five speed manual, LSD, and a hard dog Rollbar. I have fun no matter what speed I’m driving and I can beat on this thing and it keeps asking for more. I like the Miata car culture as well, they like to go drive and not just sit and talk.
Hydraulic steering on the nc is superior to the nd, no doubt about it. The rest is very comparable. Great video as always btw!
That's the only thing I would change on the ND.
@@SupraSav I rented a ND2 and it was precise but not engaging. ND2 was a hoot to drive but not having hydraulic was the big, unavoidable miss for me.
Have a 2019 ND2 and a 2012NC2. I enjoy the hydraulic steering and the stock suspension more in the NC2. Put sways bars on the ND2 so it didn't feel like a row boat in the ocean. Love the engine, shifter feel and creature comforts in the ND2. Great review as always. Enjoying your journey!
Is it better to the point where most people would care though? I mean for driving on the street, even if more aggressively? Not saying you are wrong, just trying to get an idea of the difference.
@@Swarm509 imo i think it is, yes.
I have an ND2 RF and every drive is a blast. Love the raw visceral feeling it gives you, something that is lacking in the majority of modern day cars.
Yeah, but is the original throttle response as lazy as described, or do you think the tune may have dulled it? I've seen at least 2 different youtubers who's had some issue with the throttle tune after installing the edlebroc supercharger.
My car is standard power wise, I don't think the throttle response is bad at all, its quite immediate. But I've had many turbo cars in the past, among some golf and Audi TDIs so it'd be another league to those cars
It feels like a 90's car in all the right ways. There's something that happened with cars in the early to mid 2000's where they all went significantly more muted and numb as manufacturers really started to dial in their reduction of NVH. I remember driving my mom's 2015 Civic after getting out of my 1998 Civic, and that thing felt like a 5 series in comparison.
I like the NC content as it is on my bucket list due to affordability and similar upside to the ND. Thank you for giving us a subtle but informative video
Would love to see a 2.5 NC swapped car vs s2000 vs ND! This was a great comparison too!
Are 2.5 swaps more popular than RX-8 13B swaps? 🤔 As a casual observer, I feel like the latter would lean more into Mazda folklore and I understand it's a relatively straight-forward swap: "almost like it's made for the 13B"? 🙂
@@TassieLorenzoThe 2.5 is a popular swap because used fusion motors are plentiful and generally reliable for this application, and it swaps right in with little modification necessary.
@@TassieLorenzo The rotary swap into an NC is apparently not as straightforward as it should be. Surprisingly few people have done it, and my understanding is it requires a whole RX8 front subframe and some fabrication on the PPF. The 2.5 drops in with barely any modification at all, because it's the exact same engine just with a slightly taller deck. The 2.5 is practically free, and while you have it on the bench, it's super easy to throw some cams and forged internals at it, which make it really walk all over the Renesis. It's also usually legal in lower race classes than the rotary would be. With that said, I would choose the rotary swap 10 out of 10 times, personally. I think torque is the enemy of fun sports cars on the street. A rotary would be like having a 2-stroke Miata, and that's the most fun thing imaginable.
@TassieLorenzo one motor is 900 dollars and the other 13,500. Take a guess which is swapped more lol
@@6000pounds That 13,500 sounds like the cost of a freshly rebuilt 13B that's good, not one out of a RX-8 with low compression? 🤔 You can buy a *whole* RX-8 with low compression for way less than $13,500 can't you?
I have a Nc3 PRHT 6 speed manual, and it’s honestly such a badass little car, keeps up with a lot of these cars out there, Corning is top tier, once it hits that curve it grips and just wants to be revved out
I have the same 2007 and absolutely love it.
Love all your comparisons!
FWIW the NC updates on the engine & suspension changes came in 2009 with the NC2. I absolutely love my NC2 soft top, grand touring trim with the performance package to get the LSD, Bilstein shocks, strut tower brace. I feel like it's the ultimate "everything you need, nothing you don't" car, for me at least. The only halfway tempting trade up for me is the ND (club) with the Recaro seats.
Keep the NC and swap in a 2.5 or wait for Flying Miata's new turbo kit
Dudeeee yesss love your Miata vids!!!!!!
The comparison I never thought we needed. I love the nd thohv
We need a stock NC3 vs stock ND2 or possibly stock ND3 comparison
Based on my experieces with NBFL, ND2 RF and NC3, I would choose a NC3. Preferably a NC3 club PRHT. Interior is of course superior on the ND, but with all the electronic dohickeys you need to clear codes if the battery dies, reset sensors etc. Both are lovely, end of story 🎉
NC front lights ruin it for me
I think the NC3 is bit more aggressive (in a good way), compared to the NC1/NC2. Butnto each their own. All generations are great in their own way.
Hows the steering in the Nd compared to NC? I heard nds eps is a little more numb- i definitely felt that driving one recently
@@ciello___8307 I am not professional driver, just a regular enthusiast. In my opinion the NC offers more feedback and loads up in a more natural feeling way.
Super great and honest review. Camera angles great. I have an NC1 and have owned RX7’s and two Miata’s… miata is the best bang for the Buck of all of them..
Got my NC2 - same upgrades basically as the NC3 - a couple years ago with 39,000 on the odometer. Managed to put another 15,000 on the thing, even drove it for one Pennsylvania winter. I will die owning this car.
I got a 300+ bhp turbo nc 25 anniversary edition, absolutely superb! Will leave most things in the dust, handles like its on rails. More fun than any of the expensive exotics i've owned. All my other cars come and go, but this is and will always be a keeper!!
Can't wait for the ND3
I remember reading a road review of a stock NC with a 300 hp supercharger kit running either 255 or 245 16's. Easy to get it to step out when you wanted + lots of fun.
That green on the nd is simply intoxicating
ND2 soft top weighs in at 2340 lbs. RF is closer to 2450 lbs. Add the SC and its cooling parts, it should be just around 2500 lbs (taken into account of the lighter wheels and exhaust). :)
Yes, I'm not sure where he got the estimated weights from. NC weight est. is off as well.
@@ChrisSoignier I usually see the NC quoted around 2,450 with a soft top and 6-speed. My NC2 tends to run a bit lighter on a scale. The car in this video has the 5-speed which is lighter, Ohlins are lighter than stock, lighter intake, and lighter shock tower brace. I wouldn't be surprised if all that added up to around 50 pounds.
Thanks for doing this video! Any idea how the sake bomb long stroke coilovers for the ND2 compare with the xida coilovers?
Great vid thanks for sharing 👏🏁
Can't wait for the ND3 review🤪
Can we really call it an ND3 with how little has changed?
I really love my ND2. Best car I've owned so far. A little under 2 years ago I went from a pretty basic 1995 NA with open diff, (broken) AC and power steering, old stock suspension and AT tires, to a barely used stock 2020 ND2 Club. Only thing I'd really like to change in the ND2 is the exhaust, just because the stock sound isn't too inspiring. I considered an NC, but both the exterior and interior of the ND look so much better in my opinion, and I wanted the newer limited slip and Android Auto right out of the box. Good review, either ND or NC is a great buy right now in my opinion.
Great video bro
Try get your hands on a 2.5L swap NC with Cams + headers+ tune.. so much fun!
I went from NC2 to ND1 back to NCX. The ND was an amazing car and stock for stock, I prefer the ND2 by a mile. Once you get into modifications though, the NC imo is the far better car. I bought an NC3 converted NC1 for 1/3 of the price and it outperforms the ND’s with its cammed 2.5. The NC is definitely the sweet spot for the enthusiast but for the average Miata buyer, the ND is probably the better purchase.
The RF was a game changer for me when it comes to looking for Miatas. ND2 RF Club for me!
I bought an nc1 premium with 86k miles for 11.5k out the door about a year ago. I keep thinking about going to an nd2 rf but I can't justify the cost when they the driving experience is so close. I think you're right that it has to come down to whether or not you're looking for the creature comforts.
Is the "character" of the engine the same between the NC3 and the ND2? I'm big fan of the ND2 engine, but if I can get it in a cheaper package I'll take that!
they are both very good cars. I sold my NC and RX8 and bought a 124 spider few years ago.
Been waiting for a comparison of these two for a long time, awesome vid. Going into this I thought NC would blow away the ND because of the hydraulic steering and induction note. Shocked that the ND steering is at least comparable
The steering was improved for the nd2, it was apparently worse in the nd1
Have both nc1 and nd1. It’s not a big difference.
I did not get an nd2 because it has no steering feel compared to an nc3. Don't buy an nc1 unless you're going to modify it with improves suspension.
Nice video. Got me thinking the 5 speed might be a good choice on the NC because it seems to keep you in a higher rev..am I crazy for saying that?
How does the NC look smaller than the ND in your video! It's dropped of course but still.
You couldn't find a stock ND2 to compare?
I had an NC1 for years but the chassis never spoke to me and the engine was boring. It was fun at 7/10s but it never felt like it wanted to be pushed. I preferred my 1.6 NA over my NC. I test drove an ND1 and IMO the ND is miles better than the NC, I'd love to get an ND2 for a daily
Does anyone know how difficult it would be to install Torsen lsd on nc3 Miata? Worked on bikes but new to cars
In 2016 I test drove a 40k mile 2013 Miata Club Edition w/ a softtop and they were asking $16.5
I passed because the ND recently came out and I figured I'd wait until it dropped closer to $12k. That same car would be well over $20k today.
I just added the same supercharger to my 2019 30th Anniversary Edition, which in reality, was THE FIRST faster ND, and before they released all others. I love mine. I’m still trying to dial in. I hate my aftermarket short throw shifter, and I am running stock suspension, wheels and brakes from the 30th AE as an RF. Great video. But where did this come to $30-$35K? I ordered mine 1075/3000 badge number. Definitely didn’t pay that. And I know what I spent to add that same duckbill trunk lid and paint it, as well as the cost of the MiataSpeed E-Force. No way that car is that undervalued. Even today.
The NC1 was my first dedicated sports car. The first car I owned with a manual transmission. I loved that car so much. I've owned better cars since then, but I'm not sure any are more fun, especially when the weather is perfect and you can throw the top back. I traded it for an ND1 RF, but never had the same love for that car. I think Mazda announcing the ND2 right after I bought the ND1 may have soured my ownership. LOL.
I'm glad I went with a turbo for my ND since it has a high compression engine that gets the turbine spinning immediately feeling a lot like a supercharger without the parasitic loss.
I've owned both. Loved my NC, but give a slight edge to my ND2. Go kart for the street!
nice video. i had a 6spd NC1 with LSD and loved it on a good road. i sold it because i didn't really enjoy driving it around town with the general population and i couldn't make time to get to backroads enough. thinking of adding a BRZ as a replacement 3rd car for 50% daily and 50% backroads. can you compare the NC3 you drove to your BRZ? hoping for a more 'substantial' feel, better comfort, and more room but still keeping the driver engagement.
The BRZ does not have the same level of driver engagement. It does make up in the other ways, ie comfort and space, but it is not the same to drive. Still good though!
I wonder where was the nd2 get it’s tune, I checked edelbrock, their SC kit is for nd1 , not nd2, and even that , it’s without tune, far as I know the nd2 is not tunable yet so I really need that information
Miataspeed. Check the forum, there's a long thread about the kit. It's not perfect yet but has come a long way.
Liked the comparison! You answered the 📬!!!
Great review! Two questions:
1. Are you sure that's an ND2? Pretty sure that supercharger is only available for the ND1 at the moment, since ND2 made ECU changes and no one has seemed to crack it yet.
2. Are you sure that ND(2) has an LSD? Based on the silver air vents and leatherette seats, it's not a club, and no club = no LSD.
Great points. I think in the later ND2’s they offered a package (GT-S?) where you can get some of the club upgrades on a GT. But I’m not sure if that was available in 2019.
It's a GT-S, it came stock with bilsteins, LSD and front brace as well.
Miataspeed mostly has the ND2 SC figured out. Kit comes with different injectors as well. Still needs a bit of tuning work to smooth out low rpm driving.
I'd give the SC kit a 7/10 as is...
Seems like an odd choice to supercharge the ND2 over the ND1 if you need to lower the redline anyway. Would be curious why the owner went for that option.
I don’t know but the redline is lowered due to fueling limitations of the stock nd2 injectors.
You're not wrong... it's not the best bang for buck choice 😊. Can't say I had a reason other than I already had the car the way I liked it, and wanted more power.
Kit comes with different injectors, better than stock but not good enough for the same power gains as the ND1 gets relative to baseline power.
Tune needs a bit of work for low speed driving, but spirited it's really nice
No regrets!
@@willw1564that's interesting to know. Seems like a very easy fix...
No rubbing with this tires and wheels set up? Surprising.
The problem with the NC3s, particularly if they’re a PHRT…they’re in the low 20s for a clean one. Especially if it’s a club spec model.
The cheap ones are open diff and often auto…
For a few grand more I opted to get a lightly used ND2. No ragrets lol
Exactly what I was coming to say. I had been tracking NC3 Clubs for 3-4 months before I landed on the cheapest ND2 (2021) Club in the US a little while back. The price diff was only a couple of thousand dollars (with clean CarFaxes) because the NC Club sellers were less open to negotiating, and I personally preferred the looks (though I think folks are too tough on the NC) and interior of the ND by a mile, so it ended up working out.
I think the NC3 Club is overrated compared to NC2. I personally prefer the looks of the NC2, and if you're going to do the suspension anyway, they're identical platforms. You get the same forged engine, same power and redline, same trans, same LSD, same shock tower brace, etc etc. The big change from NC2 to NC3 was the internal valving in the Bilsteins. If you're putting Ohlins or even Konis on the car, that doesn't matter. I've seen NC2s go for like 10k on Cars and Bids - with Ohlins!
@@JETZcorp great tips all around here for someone who's interested in getting a miata at some point, so thank you. But I have to point out that I checked C&B, most of the NC2s you're thinking of went for $17k+. There was one that went for $10k, but it was the cheapest by a significant margin
@@mittortz They were going for more before, but prices have crashed recently. I bought my NC2 at the peak of the market in 2022 from a Mazda dealership for $16k. No one can get that much for one today.
Exactly why i chose the NC3.
HI Hello @Zygrene, I was wondering if I could know what type of wrap the ND2 had, just the brand and model, I really like that green colour, and what are the other cosmetic mods done? much appreciated. Thanks. Tony
Inozetek Supergloss Metallic Midnight Green wrap, carbon miata trunk, titan 7 wheels
hey man we i had a 987.1 on ohlins.. we have communicated on dms.. since then I sold the cayman :( interested in the nd2.. will i bee upset? lol
In europe they are asking crazy money for nc3 around 15k. For 16 you get ND1
Thanks, cool video, I purchased the 2015 NC3 club hardtop for 60,000miles 6M $21K out the door w/ extended warranty, I did drive the newer ND1 base model, after 3wks the NC3 is now slow but still fun to drive, issue with the NC3 NC is that its the least loved of the miata and has less aftermarket parts, I do have two NA miata, waiting for Flyin Miata to come out with their NC turbo pending 2025 to come out (hopefully); but I might just sell the NC3 and buy a BMW M240i for power without spending $$$ on a turbo upgrade ; IMO I would tell people to buy the ND2 or ND3 as the NC was design when Mazda didn't have design $$ but mostly the NC engine is Mazda/Ford design and not having a huge aftermarket support; but I like the NC3 hardtop exterior body design better ( oh the NC you can upgrade many parts with the Mazda RX8 as the suspension design is the same )
NC2 PHRT gt 6 speed manual and LSD for me and I think the sweet spot. Love this car.
Is the ND Miata available in that shade of green in NA, or is that a wrap? I like the look.
Wrap, inozetek supergloss metallic midnight green
dude can you do a mazdaspeed Miata video? I have one lol, I want to see how you think it compares to all the other miatas youve tested
An NC2 with ITBs would be how I'd have one. Rev-happy with all the glorious intake bark.
I don't think there is an ITB kit for those yet, is there? There's only one I know of for the NC, and let's just say there are mixed reviews regarding the company.
@@JETZcorp You're right. I meant NC2.
2011 MX-5 is a beast. I put a cold air filter to help it breath. Then I researched for a hp chip. Before the automatic engine it shifted at about 6470rpms estimated. Now it shifts at 68 or 6900 rpms. The fastest I have got it to was slightly going down hill. I took 5 to 6500 then 6th. It slowly got to 147 and slowing down my foot lifted about 2 inches before it started to slow. I am researching for a good turbo and miata mechanic. I raced for ten years at 67 I get around in a nice real roadster, 18:37 18:37
Both would do plenty km with a big smile on my face. I love the 2.0 NC2 ST with LSD.
Love my ND 2 2021
Curious how the BBR 220 on ND2 (N/A kit, 8000rpm, 220hp) would compare
You must drive Fiesta St mk7, would like to hear your opinion.
The Fiesta ST is such an incredible car for the value.
I think you might be a bit off with the prices. Nc prices are falling back to pre pandemic levels. Saw a few grand touring ncs going for 15k. And soft top club nd2 are hitting 25k mark.
Head to head with two totally unmatched cars. It would be more useful and interesting to see a head to head between standard NC3 and ND2, both 6 speed.
Definitely some interesting observations. Must be a suspension setup issue to not get good steering feel with the nc. To me, the steering feel is night and day. I didn't get an nd because it has no steering feel. Totally valid on the ohlins complaint. The lack of shock travel on standard ohlins are a huge problem for road driving. So stupid to loose 1000 revs!! Holy cow!!
I've driven a Golf GTI, Mini Cooper, Mazda 3 2.5, 981 Boxter, 718 Cayman GTS, 996 911, 370Z, 350Z, Scion FRS, Subaru BRZ, S2000, NC MX-5, ND1 MX-5, and a 91 MR2 with Turbo swap. There are probably others I'm forgetting but the only ones I felt were worth keeping are the last two, so I kept them. Honestly the MR2 Gen 2 is probably the best drivers car ever....unless you count an Arial Atom or Lotus Elise, and the ND MX-5 is the next best thing.
The NC is a small RX8 literally the same chassis just shortened
Love my '14 NC3 GT PRHT 6-speed.
I would like to see a version of this with stock cars.
I'm having trouble with this comparison. ND with the supercharger and lower redline is...not ideal. The NC is stock engined. The Edelbrock supercharger is very very limiting. Has had heat problems since the kit came out and after 15 minutes of hard driving power drops FAST.
Only noticable power loss I've had was 100F weather full out on track conditions. Otherwise power seems consistent.
Road name?
I think you were driving the nc3 with the ac on. the light is on.
Every time I think I'm ok w/o the supercharger on my ND, I see a vid like this and it pulls me right back in. 😩
Great video but you should have compared the NC3 to an ND with a naturally aspirated engine. I don’t understand why you chose a ND that is already been modified and supercharged.
Supercharged ND2 vs NA NC3? Well, it is impressive how well the NC held up in comparison I guess?
ND2's have 19lbs flywheels, that's why they need a bit more "pressure" on gas pedals to execute smooth h-n-t downshifts.
Is there any way to lighten the flywheel or will the transmission grenade itself? Seems like that was done by Mazda as a remedy in the ND2s
This is timely, I just picked up my 2008 gt hardtop with 40k miles for 13.5k
A c5 z06, c6 z51 or c6 grand sport are all great options in terms of similar price and it's adult size and horsepower
Why compare modded cars?
Do people not like nd1's at all or something?
ND2 has more revs/power
They only made ND1 for 3 versus 5+ years for the ND2 now. But the ND1 engine really wakes up to a tune - zygrene reviewed mine last year
DAMN thats a sexy nd2
I think the ND2 is the best one can get for a Miata. Don't bother getting the coming 2024 ND3 as it only added a few electronic driving aids like radar cruise control. Relocated DRL's and an updated infitainment system plus a tweak on the steering system for more feel. The engine and suspension will not be getting any changes. The next generation NE(?) will be a hybrid, so it will most likely be a big change away from the Miata's "analogue personality".
Yeah they supposedly removed a bush from the steering but that will have a negligible difference as most of the friction is in the gears and motor response. They have tweaked the software but for a 'lighter' feel which doesn't sound appealing to me.
It also has a new asymmetric lsd but it seems to work in the opposite way to a 1.5 lsd, ie more hook up under braking and less under power. Good for a novice driver but not so much for harder driving.
I would be more impressed if you compare stock for stock rather than modified. Anyone can throw money at it and make it go fast, and modifying a car to appeal one self is an art that fits their taste, not others.
I miss my 2023 white Club PRHT. The ND was too small for me on the leg room. NC is better because it has a prht hardtop, easily swaps with a 2.5 liter, accepts aftermarket double Din infotainment so its future proof
I love em all but just go with the ND2. In stock form you won't regret it. Both of these are modded more than the "daily driver".
NC is much bigger inside, so in terms of comfort I think it will be better if you're over 5' 8
Ooo. Forced induction on an ND2. Rare! I applaud this owner for paving the way
Someone's gotta do it! There are maybe a dozen of us at most 😂
lqtms... the speedometer is "censored" in the vid. lol
That's too much tire and wheel for a stock NC power level. If it was on light wheels and 225 the steering would be much more alive. I have a similar setup but with FI, and gave up a lot of that light feeling for grip. These cars are very sensitive to unsprung weight.
Which interior is larger?
ND
@@turbinator1990 I disagree! I definitely have more room in my NC than the NDs I've sat in, and most people I've read who owned both said the NC gave them considerably more leg room for comfort on long trips. It also is the only Miata with a glovebox.
Nc by a large margin
Definitely the NC.
The nd is such a big upgrade if I’m already buying used I might as well just buy a nd unless I only want to make it a track toy
Depends on your priorities. As a comfortable cruising car, it's definitely a huge upgrade IF you fit in it. As a weekend driving tool, it's a very small upgrade. I'd recommend anyone considering buying an ND to try an NC first, just to see if the difference in money really does it for you, personally. I'm extremely happy with my NC2.
Front end doesn't load up enough = run more caster
Or trail brake
@@rightlanebandit9844 They were referring to the steering weighting up with front grip. Caster adds more weight with load. Trail braking makes the car point better on the nose, but the steering remains light.
If I could fit, I’d buy an NC Miata ASAP.
How big are you? I'm 6 2 and fit
@@rightlanebandit9844 I’m about 6’7”. Sat in a buddy’s NC and it was laughable
Think the big brakes helps more with fade over repeated brake. The pad type would help with stopping power.
Pads and fluid go a VERY long way to stopping fade. According to Flyin' Miata, they run stock-size brakes on their LS-swapped NCs and don't get fade at the track with appropriate pads and fluid.
Not really a fair comparison, is it?
I wouldn't trade my NC3 for any other version
Don’t mean to be that guy but you basically compared apples to oranges. One was a Lower spec randomly modified the other was the highest spec also modified. The videography was great but the comparison feels hollow.
Did you have to use a supercharged with lowered rpm limiter, basically a nd1? Come on man, you can do better.