Croydon: How it is - November 2023
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
- This is my fourth annual November visit to Croydon to film it and capture the town "how it is". It is intended to be neutral and all I ask is that it is viewed as such.
Thanks to my mate Graham for coming along on the journey and supporting what I do.
I am a local historian and have made many films in the Croydon area so I do pick out certain historical elements (notable the architecture). Croydon is far removed from what it once was and I hope that this trip down memory lane will help you to remember some of the better times spent here.
The retail shopping experience has changed globally, what we see in Croydon may be seen in many more towns around the world. It is not clear at this point to see what the future may hold.
Chapters:
00:00 Start/Overview
00:35 Coombe Cross into High Street
16:40 North End Part 1
19:40 Whitgift Centre
29:25 Poplar Walk
31:25 West Croydon Interchange
34:21 North End Part 2
39:34 George Street
45:54 East Croydon Station & Close
* A NOTE ABOUT COMMENTS* - I moderate the comments, all I ask is that they are respectful.
If you would like to make a contribution towards the costs of making content then please click on the “Thanks” button on any video, or alternatively you can buy me a coffee here: www.buymeacoffee.com/philswallow
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#Croydon
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It is almost impossible to describe the sheer scale of the decline of Croydon in the last 30 years. I was born in Mayday hospital 50 years ago, my grandparents lived in Derby Road and I spent a great deal of my childhood there, growing up I lived in Upper Norwood so Croydon was still our closest town center. It was such a vibrant and thriving town back then, it is depressing beyond belief to go back there now. Actually upsetting.
Spot on, Ben. Bromley managed to keep going as have many others in Greater London. Office blocks are being placed by flats all over town, that is the new skyline. Still hard to know what the future will hold. I live in hope that each year when I visit and film I will see notable improvements - we shall see . . .
Back in the 80's, 90's, people wanted to live in Croydon, now they want to flee it :-( Bromley, still much nicer, but I can see the slow decline happening there too :-(
Thankyou for this video, I stopped going to Croydon when whitgift centre declined. Croydon used to be a good shopping day out. It is clear that like a lot of London towns and suburbs it is going through a period of great change. I have a lot of fondness for Croydon and I wish it luck in achieving some of its former glory
Thank you for your comments, I saw today that Croydon Council have been awarded some "Levelling Up" money so it will be interesting to see how far that goes and whether we will see the benefits. I too wish Croydon the very best of luck for the future.
Thankyou - you reminded me why I moved out of Croydon - just not the same as it was at all - very sad
Great video and great comments. It's been almost twelve years ago since I visited Croydon and a lot has changed.
At that time the Whitgrift Centre was still lively. I remember that "all you can eat" Chinese shop and Reeves Corner BEFORE the fire and the looting.
Like many of us John, remembering how it was, I have some more planned for the area in the coming weeks/months
I remember growing up in Croydon, and the Whitgift centre adn surrounding area's heaving with people - This was around 1999-2002.
The Nestle building had hundreds of workers who went into the town centre for lunch, buying goods from Allders etc.
I returned to South london Circa 2017, and shocked at whats happened. Every so often I visit the Library, and each time notice more shops closed in the Whitgift centre
Muito triste
I was a lecturer at Croydon College from 2004 to 2009. Was beginning to decline rapidly after 2011 riots it seems. Students at college were quite rough back then
Thanks for the video. Moved away 8 years ago. Croydon is certainly changing. More apartments and less shops. I hope more businesses come in to regenerate the area.
Yes let’s hope so. As well as the financial challenges it is trying to somehow manage the change in shopping habits - a tough one indeed
I grew up in Croydon and the High Street has changed beyond recognition, and not for the better. When I was in 6th form I used to get the bus from George Street which went right down the now pedestrianised bit of the High Street -- in days gone by it would have gone down North End, but was rerouted down Wellesley Road when that was pedestrianised (in fact, it was on the drivers' initiative that they stopped using North End; it was something the council and bus companies had been hesitating about). Come to think of it, they may as well reopen the High Street to buses as there aren't any shops for the pedestrians to go to anymore.
St George's was a nice little arcade, and I remember having tea and a sandwich with a lady who used to work with me at school in the late 80s, at the Panino Bar. There was also a shop down there which sold maps and outdoor equipment, and I was fascinated by the maps and used to spend time browsing in there. A bit dated but they pulled it down and haven't done anything with it; they were hoping Westfield and John Lewis would come to their rescue.
I remember many a Saturday afternoon in the Whitgift Centre, or browsing in the record stores on North End (there was an HMV, an Our Price and a Virgin Megastore) and going down North End for a slice of pizza after college. Whitgift was bustling before and after the 1990s refit. It's sad to see what's become of it. Grants on the other hand closed in the 1980s. It was a very dated department store which hadn't moved with the times and that's why it closed. Well before the rise of the Internet or the Croydon council crisis. It was derelict for years before they got round to redeveloping it into that cinema and restaurant complex.
The bus station seems to have come full circle; when I was a child, it was an open bus station with just lanes and small bus shelters, then they put in that structure made of big coloured blocks that I used to call Legoland, which originally had a cafe, an information centre, toilets and seating areas leading up to each exit where the buses stopped, and now the shelter building is a lot smaller and the station is more open air again. Of course, the original station with facilities went into decline pretty quickly. Regarding the 'Superloop' bus, this is the same route that was the X26 until this year and was the 726 before that. Until the 90s the 726 went out to Dartford and before that, Gravesend (it was originally the 725, then that got split into 725 and 726 and only the latter survived).
That is a great summary of the history of Croydon in recent years. There is always a mixture of fondness and sadness about the place but it does hold many great memories for a huge number of people. Only time will tell what happens to the place going forward but I think we are set for a long period before any noteworthy investment is made to improve the town.
We always called the building beyond the station the threepenny bit building too!
I’m pleased to see that is winning at the moment! 😂
I grew up in Croydon and my parents would always take me into the Whitgift Centre on Saturdays to do shopping, was always full of people. I moved away years ago but was back for a weekend earlier this year and thought I'd go and have a look around.....So depressing, there was barely anyone around, most of the shops closed. Croydon will always be my 'home' but could never move back
It’s a very sad place nowadays, many of us still have fond memories of how it was
Hi there. Sorry to say that Croydon is now an empty husk of a place, and I remember when it was thriving.
People are shifting towards the north, a trend today.
Croydon was rated as one of the most depressing places to live according to a recent survey. Its council declared bankruptcy two times in three years, certainly making it worse.
I viewed a house in Croydon last year, did a small tour, didn’t feel safe there.
Hi Phil. Thanks for taking the time to expand your annual review series of Central Croydon with this sunny 2023 video. Indeed the pleasant weather was one of the few real highlights 😞. I was there a few days ago, only, I hasten to add, because I was on foot following my bi-annual hospital check-up at Mayday (I've grown up calling it Mayday and refuse to adopt the new name into my vocabulary !!!). Central Croydon - what a sorry state for a once thriving town centre to fall into. Quite frankly it's an embarrassment imo. I have fond memories of shopping there and also working there, spanning a period of well over 60 years. I have chosen not to go there for at least the past 7 years as I could see the decline setting in, choosing Bromley instead. Sadly that's even showing slight signs of following the demise of Croydon too. The dismal economy of recent years, plus people's shopping habits has certainly taken its toll on our once thriving town centre. The rise, quite literally, of tall tower blocks of apartments are blots on the landscape. That orange, purple and red monstrosity on Wellesley Road winds me right uo. It can be seen for literally miles and miles when travelling around South London and beyond. It's a shame you didn't film the overbearing, ugly tower blocks just around the corner from East Croydon station in Cherry Orchard Road (or Cherry Orchard Canyon as I now call it). They block out the sun and on windy days create a wind tunnel. Like yourself I always tend to look at the original old characterful architecture above the modern, trendy (but more often tatty) shop frontages and finding myself thinking of the craftsmanship that went into those in bygone days. That's all for now. Keep up the good work.
I plan to do more in the surrounding areas and East Croydon will certainly be a focus. It's an overwhelming feeling of sadness. Despite what the council did with our money, the shopping trends were set for all. Transferring to living accommodation is a logical move but as you say, why do it with such garish designs? Tragic really. We shop at Bromley or occasionally Bluewater - it will be awful if Bromley goes the same way . . .
When allders closed it felt like the heart was pulled out of it.
I walked those same streets many times. Croydon was the place to shop when I was a kid, and when I lived in South Norwood. It's a great shame that there are so few shops there now. I was thinking at the start, "it doesn't seem to have changed that much really", then you went into the Whitgift Centre and I was totally lost. It has changed completely since I last went there, back in the days of the Forum Pub!
lived in croydon all my life. i moved to Cambridge a year ago.
in that year i’ve returned a few times to visit my family, the place is gets worse on each visit, a real shame as i love croydon.
the council should be ashamed of them selves, with miss management
I worked for Croydon Council for forty from the beginning of the seventies, when it went from direct labour to private contractors that is when the trouble started. Some councils realised this and went back to direct labour
Did you go to Purley Boys ? I might have known you back then.
I still have a dressing gown with the Grants of Croydon label inside.
Purchased for me by my mother in about 1951.
That would have been during its glory days!
Damn, they just don't make them like they used to.
Moved to Suffolk in November 2016, visits back have always made me so sad when I see the demise of the town centre. Whitgift Centre has suffered because of the failed Westfield takeovers, too many high rise apartments going up & Station Rd at west Croydon was un-recognisable when I was down in August
Katherine, I remember before the Whitgift centre was built. If you miss the shopping centre then cnsider this...when you walked south along Wellesley Road in 1961. As you reached the junction with Station Road the old Croydon County Borough Offices of the Water and other utilities that they operated on the right there. These were pleasant low key offices with little gardens at the fron and complementing the Victorian town houses on both sides of the road and adjacent to the offices.
Crossing Station road looking down at the long row of single storey office and retail units on the right facing what was then being built as a bus station, you come past the end of Poplar Walk. There you would see the church of St Michael's and All Angels, and there was also a small hutted building housing the local Territorial Army unit.
As you continued along, the old theatre was empty but soon to be replaced by large buildings. For the most part, until you reached Norfolk House near George Street, the whole of the eastern side of Wellesley Road comprised of significant Victorian Villas. Opposite them, on the western side was the school. What had been Whitgift School, but in 1961 was Whitgift Middle School (being Middle class rather than to do with age!), was still standing. The view from Wellesley Road was fantastic. Alongside the pavement was a short wall surmounted by elegant railings along its whole length. Behind this was a wonderful swathe of greenery. Playing fields and gardens. The buildings beyond were of a mock-tudor stone work style that looked as if they had been there forever. In the far left corner you could just about make out the Headmaster's House, which had been the original school adjacent to the Hospital of the Holy Trinity (The Whitgift Almshouses).
In short, this was a tranquil spot - and I hope that you will forgive me when I say, more worthy of being sad about than the modernist stuff that was never going to look good in a century or so!
Mcdonald's in North End was actually the fourth Mcdonald's in the country and opened in 1975 so yes it has been there a long time. At one time it was the busiest in the world!
Ah thanks, I do remember now, when it opened as I recall friends at school taking about it.
Could never get a seat on a Saturday!
This is heartbreaking to watch. Croydon was a shopping mecca. Now just tragic.
Great channel!
Glad you enjoy it!
Very interesting to see Croydon as it is now but leaves me rather sad when remembering the vibrant town I knew in the 50s and 60s. I actually lived in Foxley Lane, Purley for my teenage years and moved with my family to York back in 1969.
Sad is the word, Sheila. There is a lot of building activity and the town has secured some "levelling-up" funding but the good old days seem gone forever I think.
Thanks Phil great upload in the autumn sunshine .Seems to me as long time Croydon resident that what you’ve been documenting over last few years is the slow decline of Croydon quite sad to see when you look back at the optimism of Croydon in the sixties and seventies such is life I suppose.I love all your uploads particularly the killer duck in hamsey green pond which was a fantastic snapshot back in time and also very funny .keep up the good work you’re a local treasure
Thanks for your feedback, it really means a lot! It’s great fun doing these and there’s plenty on my list 👍🏻
Nice to see the town centre in such natural light and how it changes ones perception of the buildings. Croydon is undergoing major change and is often portrayed in a negative manner. It has a fascinating and impressive history, from Croydon Palace in Old Town to Croydon Airport, which the council do little to promote. In many ways I'm pleased that it hasn't gone down that route of a Westfield style development.
Great points Steve, thanks.
Thank you for taking the time to make these videos. Really enjoyed this. I worked in Katherine Street for 24 yrs until the demise of the Gas Board. Although I don't live far away I think I've probably been back to Croydon twice and that was years ago. Having seen the video now I can see no reason to go again. How sad and empty it has become. I'm with you on the architecture, does make you wonder if it were anywhere else more would be made of it, very sad to see the neglet.
Glad you enjoyed it, Viv. There is small comfort in the fact that many other towns will be in the same position now or in the near future, I think. But I'm sure Croydon's historical architecture will be high up on any league table of such things!
Hi Phil, Many thanks for this. I, too used to frequent what was called, if memory serves me, The Luciana Temperance Billiard Hall under the flyover. It formed part of a 'golden triangle' for me. The other two parts of the triangle being Beanos Record Shop and The Panino Bar in St George's Walk. One of the other parts of my teenage years was the indoor market in Park Street (long gone now)
Thanks Richard. I certainly remember Beano’s very well and ate quite a few times at the Panino Bar - great memories!
We would meet Trinity boys in Paninos after school and have tea and hot buttered toast.
I remember buying a parka from the indoor market and thumbed through many a record in Beano's.
Thanks so much for that tour around Croydon. I lived there in the 1960’s/70’s so it’s changed massively. Really appreciated your talking throughout 👍🏻You were recommended by Marq English
Thank you for your kind comments, glad you enjoyed it, and an additional thank you to @MarkEnglish !
Brilliant video as always. I am so pleased I moved to Devon. Can't believe how empty the Whitgift Centre is. Great to spot the shops and cafes I remembered that at still open.
I remember before it was predestrianised with traffic lights every 100 yards or so. Would spend Friday and Saturday nights drag racing through the town!!
My parents got married in St Michaels church.
I remember West Croydon bus station on the way to see Palace play. End stop of the 403.
Definitely the threepenny bit building :)
Thanks for doing this, brought back so many good memories of a time long past.
Thanks mate, we match up well here! Thank goodness for the memories
Nice.
It was the Luciana snooker club. Great video Phil. What a shame what's become of central croydon.
Indeed Steve, very sad story
I worked in the Ligne Roset showroom in the Whitgift centre.
I think they were one of the longest serving shops there?
Towards the end of your walk on your right as you approach E Croydon station set back from the road there is a sculpture of a steeplechaser and rider. Worth investigating as it commemorates the time when horse racing was a popular entertainment in Croydon (across Fairfields and onto Duppas Hill). There was also a racecourse at Ashburton where the recreation park now is. Amazed to see Sainsburys has closed. There used to be a branch of Hamleys in George Street which was a magnet to me in childhood - I still have the chess set bought there for me as a Xmas present. It shows how important a shopping centre Croydon once was as I don't know of any other branches of Hamleys other than the one in Regents Street.
I didn’t know about the sculpture but just looked it up and came up with a different story so will dig deeper! The racecourse in Addiscombe is on my list, hopefully will happen in the coming weeks/months
@@philswallow I was puzzled by this and just looked it up myself. I'm sure I read on a plaque beside the sculpture that it commemorated the history of horse racing in Croydon but see now that the statue represents the fictional character Jorrocks. All the same the story of horse racing in Croydon is worth looking into. The main venue was Duppas Hill with part of the track being along Brighton Road and races often began on the Fairfields where an annual fair was held (hence the name)
I remember Hamley's and spending ages looking at the Britain's model horses in the glass cabinet deciding which one I was going to buy next.
I left the UK when Thatcher introduced the Poll Tax and have not seen Croydon since then. So this brings back some real nostalgia. I actually worked in Allders.
Personally, I always thought of Croydon as a concrete jungle, but this video helped me to see some of the original features that are still left, so thanks for the commentary.
Croydon was always the primary shopping mecca for South London, so I must admit I am actually quite shocked to see it so devoid of people (on top of that before Christmas). Now I am wondering what the rest of the UK must be going through if Croydon is this dead. "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark!".
Croydon hasn’t helped itself in so many ways, bankruptcy being one of the recent impacts. The history is rich though, and I think worth seeing. I think many other UK towns are suffering in similar ways albeit perhaps not as much as a fall from grace as Croydon has seen.
I used to work in Wrencote House. Ate at the Galicia a lot .....good times❤
Galicia is such a great restaurant, I've been there many times too. Highly recommend it!
Hi Phil. I popped down to Croydon on my brilliant new over sixty Oyster travel pass for a similar ‘memory lane’ tour, Saturday the week after. I was devastated. The Whitgift a shadow of its old self. Gone the crowds and car park queues I was expecting on a busy shopping weekend before Xmas. As you said, sad! What has the internet done…!!??
Keep up the good work.. Always fascinating..
Thanks Mark, it makes me wonder just how many other towns have declined in this way - a growing number I expect. The Oyster Card is great! 😁
The commentry was great mate keep it up 👍
Thank you 👍
Can't believe Croydon was the second biggest business centre in UK after central London back in the 60s! Such a shame what is happening to it when it is so unnecessary.
Leon House belonged to Tate and Lyle. I worked there alongside the Home Economics employee trialing new products, which I took to local focus groups.
In 1970 my open plan office was on one of the higher floors, but not the top one as that was only for a huge bank of Computers, the first I’d even see, and didn’t really know what they were for!
I remember the Whitgift Centre being built, and the three penny piece building, great design. Getting married in the Town Hall was very basic, but affordable. Croydon is still a great mix of buildings old and new shown very well in this footage
Some wonderful memories there, glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks Phil, nice walk round. It’s something like 55 years since my husband and I went shopping in the Whitgift. In those days it was open air I see they have a cover now. Yet there is something that still looks more or less the same. There was a tall building at the end, which made the centre a wind tunnel. I remember the three penny building, I suppose they would call it 50p these days. I am not sorry we moved to the other end of the country in Devon. I don’t think I would like Croydon today but you are right about the tops of those buildings, yet in my day. I never noticed them. We just wanted everything to be modern, all that red brick and twiddly bits were so old-fashioned😄
Thanks Julie, glad you enjoyed it
I used to live in the first Tudor-looking building on the left, opposite Galacia!
The Tudor-style buildings opposite Galacia….there was a big fire 🔥 there in Around summer 2020. The dry cleaners went up.
I'm going to croydon (where travellodge is) for my bday and Im gonna watch this video so I can get a idea how this place is!! (:
The Whitgift Centre was built on the site of the old Whitgift Middle School - now Trinity School.
I’ve been there!
There was a snooker club years ago i used to go there all the time
Croydon lost itself in the late 90s early 2000s , I lived there all my life , lived in various areas of Croydon but my favourite was south Croydon near purley. However I saw the decline as the years went past and decided before the pandemic to move to the south coast…. I live a much safer and balanced life , friendlier people and no ULEZ. If you move to Croydon now you wouldn’t know any different but for us that lived through the 80s/90s to now will tell you it’s not a safe place to bring a family up. Good luck to anyone that’s stuck there. All the people I knew have moved out now. So I would never return or London come to think of it, people are just too angry. Great video thou thanks for uploading
Well done for getting out, Robert. It is something we consider regularly
I lived near Croydon in the 70s and 80s and it was my main place for shopping but moved away in 1983, the only shop I remember in your video was WH Smith & Son, Croydon has changed so much, what day of the week and time was this video filmed the shopping center looks so dead surely it gets more busy than that.
Hi Paul, this was filmed on Friday 17 November between 10am-12noon. My latest walk at South Croydon was filmed at a similar time on a Saturday and it felt even quieter. I'm sure that the town gets busier later in the day but nothing like the 70s/80s, sadly.
I can't see how businesses can survive with that few customers, I now live in Ireland and Kilkenny City is where I mainly shop and it usually fairly busy, its sad to see Croydon so run down. @@philswallow
That's the point, if big businesses go it will be worse than it is now. I read that there may be a future change to the Whitgift Centre site to rebuild it bringing in a mix of residential/commercial/retail which would refelct the change in how we live nowadays but we need to see some detail and also understand how it might attract people. So many of us just don't need to go there now, we shop and dine out etc in other ways and other locations.
Down Scarborough road there was a swimming pool and old wash houses years ago, right near Croydon market
Right next to Selhurst Grammar school. This was when the site at the Crescent wasn't big enough.
The buildings on the left starting at Leaders, there was once a winterbourne that flowed in the winter rains. The tracks that ran down towards the Wandle valley below were in a rural idyll. That was how it was when the Croydon, Godstone and Merstham Railway was first built in 1803 running from the junction of what became Tamworth Road and Chruch Street. The railway went via Church Road - the residential street when it was built was created on the area of the railway when it was abandoned. (The wide gardens on the west of London Road, Purley were also the route of the old railway that ended at the quarries in Merstham and Godstone.)
Tamworth Road was built to service the Junction of the Croydon Canal. The original buildings for the canal operations can still be seen when I lived in Croydon, from the slight bend in Station Road west of the bus station. Many people do not know that West Croydon railway station was first built to act as the dock for the canal. The CGM Railway and the slightly older Surrey Iron railway, all came together by what became Reeves' Corner.
Just about from the place where Millett's store was (did you know that this was the original Milletts store - they expanded into a national chain from there). The site once housed a public house/tavern. In this tavern once lived a young boy called John Ruskin - the pub belonged to his grandmother and he spent a long time living with her. Next along before you got to Grants was the first Town Hall.
Grants was asset stripped bfore the end, very sad. Many people I know, including my brother and uncle, served apprenticeships in Grants. MY uncle used to serve as a firewatcher with Alec Grant on the roof at the time of the Blitz.
I remember watching St George's Walk and St George's House being built. They opened in 1964. The College site and the Fairfield campus were all being developed around the same time.
Did you realise that Barclays at the top of Crown Hill stands on the site of the Crown public House, which gave its name to the adjoining hill (which is in fact Church Street!)
Those of us of a certain age may recall the old Kennards arcade - with its heavy incense smells and wonderful sounds. Strangley, whilst most of us remember it as Kennards, it was in fact taken over by Debenhams way back in 1932.
The school was not Whitgift School when it was demolished, that had moved in 1931 to its site at Nottingham Road. The original Middle School had been established in Church Road and moved into the North End site when the older site went south. When the Middle School was moved from the site of the shopping centre it changed its name and at its new site at Shirley Park it was renamed as Trinity School.
I worked in Pindisports in the Whitgift back in the early 1970s. No roof on the centre in those days. Boros have been there since the beginning! Sainsbury's in th Whitgift Centre was the replacement for the shop in London Road, West Croydon. The London Road shop had been the first Sainsbury store outside of London (Croydon was not in London back then!). The Whitgift store was the first of the enlarged supermarkets.
When I worked for Boots, the Croydon store was the biggest in the region. In those days to be a Boots manager you first needed to be a pharmacist, but in that store there was the Manager ( a pharmacist) and the pharmacy manager (also a pharmacist), in this case the manager had been a Lancaster pilot during the war - the pharmacy manager had been his rear gunner!
St James's Church was once in St James's Road (it has been converted into flats since the parishes were merged). St James's, Croydon Common, as it was officially named, as the second oldest Anglican church in the parish of Croydon ( a very large ecclesiastical parish under the direct control of the Archbishop of Canterbury). The parish of Croydon Common was hived off, then South Croydon and others later.
The Lord of the Manor was the Archbishop of Croydon, just as he was Lord of the Manor in Lambeth, he had a palace here (as he did in Lambeth). However, there was a part of the manor that had been 'alienated'. The area behind what became Debenhams was 'Bermondsey in Croydon' because until the disolution of the monasteries, the Abeey of Bermondsey owned the site.
The large store on the corner of Station Road and London Road, which i itself quite interesting architecturally, was the home of Headquarters and General - Croydon's long serving outdoor and surplus store.
You mentioned about the Classic cinema on Crown Hill, but did not mention about the cinema on North End. It was important to us, as the Bier Kellar nearby was to become. These along with the Top Rank Suite near Broad Green were the centre of our night lives!
John, thank you for your wonderful, detailed comments!
@@philswallow I can't help myself. I still have my own personal Croydon archive.
I never liked the "glass block "developments that sprung up in the late 50s,early 60s ,onward.The shopping centre was useful but took the community heart out of the centre.
My favourite place was the children's library under the Town Hall.
You are right about plans for East Croydon station. The intention is to move the station a tad further North to accommodate 2 new platforms. It goes hand in hand with the remodelling of the Selhurst triangle junctions. It involves demolition & replacing the Gloucester Rd bridge & a lot of property on the rail side of Gloucester rd. Network Rail bought up a lot of land on Landsdowne road. But as usual government funds are not, at present, forthcoming for such a grand scheme. So who knows if it will ever come about?
And elections are a perfect excuse to do nothing for a while
Any chance of doing Addicombe Road, White Horse Pub, Pawsons Road.
I have got plans to move further afield, not sure when yet 👍🏻
I worked in the whitgift centre when i was 16-18 and it was meant to be torn down due to dilapidation. I am now 38 and it is still open, that doesn't seem right at all.
Great video. I worked in Croydon from 2011 to 2016. Did you record in the early morning?
Thanks Andrew, it was about 10am on a Friday morning for a couple of hours or so, glad you enjoyed it!
I'm lost. I've been away from Croydon, nearly twenty years. What has caused the Whitgift Centre decline? That is , anything beyond the "retail shopping experience" noted?
Hi Mike, way before Covid there was meant to be a deal to build a Westfield Shopping Development in Croydon, similar to those at Shepherd's Bush and Stratford - it would have been a huge boost for the town. But the deal didn't happen, and shop leases weren't renewed, a general decline kicked in and we had a pandemic. You could call it a perfect storm of retail destruction. Shopping habits have now changed and we have no idea what will happen in the future. Add to that the Council going bankrupt and playing property development games (very badly) with council tax payers' cash and it is a complete recipe for disaster. Croydon has a fantastic past, and is not alone in that of course, but the future? Who knows . . .
@@philswallow thanks. That fills in the gaps nicely. 👍
Croydon gone down hill since I worked and lived there shops disappeared. Whitgift centre a empty area, help build the forum pub when a apprentice carpenter, sad now
Didn’t fancy doing this walk at 11pm on a Saturday night?
Light levels not good enough for the camera . . . 😉
Do we know how many of the new build flats are occupied.
Not sure, I was only thinking this today actually
I worked in croydon for many years at the land registry is so sad
I remember model time was in Croydon in the 80s
Brilliant shop!
Yooo I’ve seen that centre!
Any video's to contrast how it was in the late 90's?
I don’t have any footage from that time but if anyone has some to share I would be happy to make a “then & now” comparison video - great suggestion!
Croydon Council and other factors have absolutly destroyed Croydon. Back in the early 90's was packed 7 days a week and the 80's were even busier. I'm 46 years born and bred and still living down the road from where you've filmed. This vid breaks my heart to how my town has been pretty much bulldozed.th-cam.com/video/sKAh-jJw6y0/w-d-xo.html
It was a tough one to make. The biggest positives are the impressive history, I’m sad to say
I remember growing up in Croydon, and the Whitgift centre adn surrounding area's heaving with people - This was around 1999-2002.
The Nestle building had hundreds of workers who went into the town centre for lunch, buying goods from Allders etc.
Used to be a Iceland under the fly over
Taberner house now Bernard weather Hill house was my head office before it went private, not direct labour, good days
Does anyone remember the cinema that used to be near where mcdonalds is on high street.have vague memory of my brother taking me to see a really low budget version of spider man.late 70s i guess
Sad state of affairs Croydon has been left to fall into with empty promises and council mismanagement.
Remember being dragged round as a kid in the mid to late 80s down Surrey St market, into Littlewoods then a quick sit down on the bird poo covered brick seating area outside on Church St, into the Whitgift with the spiral walkway to the top floor when most of it wasn't covered, Into Allders then into Debenhams to watch the laser show at the fountain.
Then on my own as a teen in the early 90s, the place was always buzzing, The Whitgift was packed solid with all shutters up and waiting lists for an outlet, the In shops on Church St was a great little hang out in the late 90s, even in the early 00s Croydon was a buzzing night and daytime scene, but now looks like a desolate wasteground.
Shame we didn't have easily accessible camers and video cameras back then with only a few snippets of 80s/90s Croydon preserved.
A brilliant summary that reflects my personal Croydon history. I agree, the documenting of it then would have provided rich content today, that said it might also make the decline seem a lot worse!
@@philswallow
I left in 2011 not long after the riots, I used to come back for odd weekends to see friends and family but that stopped 2yrs ago as most have now moved away so I had nowhere to crash at, my last remaining friend there is moving after new year so no need to go back to the old girl but at least your walkthroughs can keep me in touch with what's going on so thank you.
I can sadly see the Whitgift being torn down, not for Westfield but for more of those dreaded high rises that they have been put in place of the beautiful buildings where swag records used to be in West Croydon and leaving North end and the central section as the shopping quarters.
It's mad to see what stores have survived all these years, Boros the luggage shop and that restaurant above poundland must have some long term agreement with Whitgift because there never overly packed, Waterstones and Boots also although there big chains so could swallow the losses although Sainsbury's going was surprising.
I will be making more videos of the area, particularly South Croydon and some of the areas that have good history but aren't always covered. There are plenty of stories to tell albeit they are tinged with sadness.
@@philswallow I was a South Norwood lad myself, would be nice to see some good videos of it's history.
My plan involves gradually branching out from Croydon so it’s on the list but I’m not sure when it will happen
Your lucky you didn’t get your camera nicked mate 😊
I'd rather remember it as it was in the 70s n 80s....today it's not safe after dark.
This what austerity can do to a place.
THE GRADUAL DEMISE OF BEAUTIFUL CROYDON SINCE 2000!!! I NOTICED PERSONALLY !! THE WHOLE OF THE U.K. NOT JUST CROYDON !!! SHAME SAD REALLY !! FROM,U.K. (2024).
True, it is much wider and there is a lack of ideas about what could be done about it
Sad how it's all declined in so many years
An awful place these days!
Sadly so!
I worked in London in the 50s Crodon was THE place to take a quick journey to East Croydon Station and shop .The original Whitgift school was very attractive Plenty of shops for fashion etc What a sad sight No Allders, Debenhams, Cand A . etc Very depressing !!
Come to Iran bro nice byriani innit 😂😂😂😂
😳
Nothing but more tower blocks going up that arent even intended for locals while losing its last bit of character.that croydon nowadays.
nah i live in croydon aswell
Croydon like the uk is spirraling to rock bottom
Thanks for the rather pathetic video of 2023 Croydon - in the true sense of the word, a quality that evokes sadness, not a comment about your video. I can remember Croydon in the 1970s & 1980s, first being dragged round with my brother by my Mum, later going in on the 403 from Warlingham with mates. Moved away a long time ago, I know Croydon has gone down hill but it is still shocking to see how bad it is. Apologies if the places I mention have been covered before. A couple of places I can remember, tried to put time stamps to help with the locations:
About 8:30 - not shown but under the fly over was Bejams, a freezer centre, forerunner of Iceland - now Ponte Nuovo.
19:26 - the boarded up shop on the left of the entrance to the Whitgift Centre used to be Horne Brothers, gentlemen's outfitters. Last occupied by Living Mode.
Somewhere in the Whitgift Centre, the odd octagonal two storey pub called the Forum, when the centre was open air. Guessing there is no trace left now, probably now replaced by a stand selling phone cases.
Someone about 35 minutes, Beatties, the model kit/model train set shop. Tamiya heaven - F1 cars and military stuiff.
If you ever get a chance to go and explore the Town Hall you should, had a glimpse in there when I went to an inquest. Gives a real idea how far Croydon has fallen looking into the past displayed around the building.
I appreciate your comments, and I remember the shops you mentioned. Beatties was just inside St George’s Walk on the right, when entering from the High St. I’ve seen some of the council building - Braithwaite Hall? But will try to do the full tour via Open House next September
Dirty place
All I can say is yuck.
Does anyone remember the cinema that used to be near where mcdonalds is on high street.have vague memory of my brother taking me to see a really low budget version of spider man.late 70s i guess