Gotham’s Tarnished White Knight: Commissioner Gordon | Batman The Animated Series
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video I look at Commissioner Gordon and demonstrate how he isn't quite the squeaky clean hero people think he is.
#batmantheanimatedseries #btas #batman #dcau #commissionergordon
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
0:39 Comic Book Origins
2:23 Year One
5:57 The Killing Joke
6:45 The BTAS version
8:38 I Am The Night
9:48 P.O.V., Vendetta, & Shadow of the Bat
12:37 Over The Edge
13:49 Outro
Music by @Katt Strike - listen to the whole track here: th-cam.com/video/VKdA2lCjtash/w-d-xo.htmlttps://y...
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Excellent video. Yes...I agree a corrupt police force would have made the series more real and would have justified the need for a Batman. It was impossible at that time to convey that in a show that was intended for all ages...okay...it was intended for children by the network....but they allowed much more than most cartoons at the time. A depiction of corrupt policemen would have been seen by the network and parents as undermining a child's faith in the system. I feel that Mask of the Phantasm show a little more official government corruption by having Arthur Reeves be connected to the mob. That was something we could never have gotten away with during the series.
Thanks for your insights, Dan! It occurred to me that Gil Mason was probably the closest we got to a corrupt institution, but he was very carefully framed as the exception, rather than the rule.
I suppose there is a kind of optimism in a nation's artists wanting its children to believe in their institutions. That is, unless it is mere naïvete.... Or even cynicism.
I havn't seen the whole show, but I like how Bolloc isn't corrupt (from what I've seen). He's a piece of work but he does his job, meaning you can be a gruff person without being a bad person.
I say this because it would be easy for him to be evil, like that guy from batman begins. But no he just doesn't like batman 🤷♂️
@@walrusArmageddon Bullock is loosely based on the Orson Welles character in Touch Of Evil. A cop who is jaded and plants evidence...but still has instincts from years on the force. He takes shortcuts...but is ironically usually right. Bullock would be more like that if possible...he probably resents Batman because he knows other police can't take the short cuts Batman can. Bullock is probably jealous because Batman doesn't have to do paperwork after an arrest like he has to do.
Nice Profile Picture
Still thinking about my favorite line of commissioner Gordon: "no one should live here"
It was played as a joke but the way he says it implies absolutely sadness
th-cam.com/video/yCaVlt6f1_Q/w-d-xo.html
Similar to Hanlon's razor: "never attribute to malice that which can be can be explained by stupidity/incompetence".
He’s right though, Gotham is a great metaphor for *industrialization and its consequences* .
"Ineptitude is not the same as corruption."
But any sufficiently advanced incompetence becomes indistinguishable from malice.
I don't think that logic really works that well.
@@AngryNerdBird Yes it does. There comes a point where an action becomes so incompetent that you could not have done worse if you tried.
@@cheezemonkeyeater thats very true
Malice: 1) A desire to harm others or to see others suffer; extreme ill will or spite.
2) The intent to commit an unlawful act without justification or excuse.
So not really. Ineptitude does not have the inherent evil intent.
@@matiasluukkanen7718 I didn't say it was the same, I said it becomes indistinguishable from malice. From the outside, you can't see the difference, because motives cannot be observed.
One thing I've found interesting about Gordon is that there's these two contradictory Gordons that often exist between the various adaptations. There's Miller Gordon, and then there's Officer Gordon on the night of the Wayne murder. I really think these two could co-exist. He's a Gotham native who left because of corruption, but then came back due to the Miller Gordon reasons. I think that's the ingredients for a more well-rounded and mixed Gordon who becomes a bridge between Gotham and normalcy. He's the eternal outsider to Gotham, but he's also the greatest insider. He rejected Gotham's ways, but nevertheless got sucked back into it and now must make it conform to his own.
It also is the backbone of "Gordon has always known who Batman is". A Gordon who's new to Gotham will eventually figure it out, but there's no humanity to his understanding of Bruce Wayne. He's a story, a file. A Gordon who was there and was aware of the young Bruce Wayne growing up is a Gordon who immediately connects the dots between Bruce's return and Batman and immediately understands the psychology of the Bat. It's the line between Gordon simply trusting Batman, and Gordon understanding Batman but neither of them being able to share in their understanding because of the position they're both in.
Bob Hastings really cemented himself for me as the definitive voice of the older more experienced Gordon. Funnily enough when it comes to a middle-aged Jim Gordon as has been the prevailing version we've gotten in more recent times, the voice that immediately comes to my mind is that of Bryan Cranston. I admit I was surprised by how much I loved him in the role when he voiced him in the Batman Year One animated movie, because he was such an obvious casting and yet despite that it still felt perfect.
Yes, Bob Hastings had such a warm, rich, voice, that still carried a sense of authority. May he rest in peace.
Admit it, folks, Hasting's voice is prolly the one they can hear whilst reading non-DCAU comics featuring the guy.
Batman Arkham Knight was about as Bryan Cranston the Gordon interpretations have been! Def should check it out if you haven't already
@@michaelandreipalon359For the older Gordon absolutely. For the younger middle-aged Gordon, my mind goes to Bryan Cranston's voice.
"Say my name" "James Gordon" "You goddamn right".
Since Internal Affairs is a division of the police department and reports to the commissioner, it’s entirely appropriate that he sit in on the interrogation if he so chooses.
Those suits from the 30's are just... *chef's kiss*.
I know that's nowhere NEAR the point you were making in this wonderful video; I'm just wistful for those snazzy styles.
Do you think anyone would be interested in a Top 10 DCAU Suits list video???
@@SerumLake LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOO
@@SerumLakehell yeah! That would be an awesome list.
Would like to see Static's second suit on such a list. Same with Batman's fire retardant against Firefly.
@@SerumLakeI would!
I disagree about BTAS not showing Gotham corruption for two reasons
1) There are many episodes where Batman had to deal with corrupt CEOs like Rolland Dagget and Ferris Boyle, whose action not only endanger the people of Gotham but end up creating villains like Mr Freeze and Clayface. There's even some episodes like "The Forgotten", "Appoitmeant in Crime Alley" and "Birds of Feather" that adress topics like poverty and mistreat by the upper class, showing the struggles people in Gotham go through and how most the rich just look down or just use them for their own self-gain (exemple: Veronica an Pierce with Penguin in Birds of Feather). This combine with factors, like how Arkham has a terrible security and the villains can easly escape, justifity why Gotham never seems to improve and why it needs someone like Batman, to act as symbol to inspire the best in others.
2) GCPD being corrupt only works in Batman's early days. By the time BTAS takes place, with Gordon already being comissioner and Dick Grayson is already a teenager, the police wouldn't be the same level as corrupt as before, showing that Batman and Gordon's actions had a effect in the city. Not a perfect effect, but a positive one at least.
I see where you’re coming from, but I don’t view corrupt businessmen as the same thing as corrupt city officials.
Having said that, I hadn’t considered that all of the corrupt “titans of industry” were a substitution for corrupt politicians, but that could very well be the true.
I'm sure they leaned into the corrupt executives since they couldn't use any corrupt officials. Although Mayor Hill definitely has plenty of moments highlighting how selfish and ambitious he is, taking advantage of situations for his career.
Hadn't considered the angle that Gotham was cleaned up by Batman and Gordon. I don't think that's what they were going for, but it's certainly a good take.
I agree with your second point, but as far as the first, those examples are mostly private citizens. I think the point is that the series couldn't show police or elected officials be corrupt. At worst they could only be incompetent, but still well intentioned.
I honestly wish that had a game or a show that showed just how crazy effective the GCPD really are considering how much madness they have to deal with, they have brought law to a city that is inherently crazy on a primordial level, the land itself has always been implied to be cursed, the cities founders corrupt and the population systemically disenfranchised to the point of being dysfunctional and yet GCPD has tried and more often than not succeeded in standing stead fast in insurmountable odds of everything from man made horrors to things beyond our comprehension, for less than industry average wages too in the majority of continuities.
The GCPD legit need more respect put on them. We are talking about the corruption but never about the beauty of the brave men and women of that doomed city who get some good accomplished in the process of their Sisyphusian task that is being a good cop in Gotham.
Even the corrupt ones need to not just be labeled too broadly, the philosophy of the red hood and the penguin should be brought up, that of crime mitigation rather than prevention.
In batman beyond its shows..
I think it actually worked to the show's favor that the GCPD wasn't corrupt. The DCAU Batman was always a very compassionate character, one who seemed to want to actually help people rather than just beat the manshit out of criminals. I think a non-corrupt police force leaned into the idea that people, on the whole, are generally good at heart and justified why Batman could be so optimistic and compassionate.
As for why there isn't as much corruption seen in bmtas, I like to think due to Gordon's age that he's been in Gotham for a long time and in that universe he was successful in stomping down corruption that by the time Batman appeared the only threats in Gotham left were gangsters and super villains.
I am the Night is in my opinion one of the best episodes in Btas it's kinda ashamed it isn't talked about as much because it actually focuses on Bruce's psychology and relationship with Commissioner Gordon.
The whole video I was reminded of the Injustice comics, where Gordon and some of the cops like Bullock or Montoya take the super pills and go to retake Gotham. When they are done, Bullock is ready to tell Superman's army their rights and all that stuff, but Gordon stops him and tells them that they don't have those rights, that this is war. Really shows you what Gordon is all about
I think in the No Man's Land comic it's mentioned that Gordon's considered a joke outside Gotham for working with Batman and can't get a job on a police force anywhere else.
That’s right, after Gotham’s earthquake he went to an interview in other town and was laughed out of the building.
Even though most of the other commissioners in other major cities work with superheroes as well?
@@magicaltour1 if I had to guess, most other superheroes are more... Above board, and usually handle major disasters or situations that can't be contained by ordinary authorities. Sure, WE know how extraordinary Gotham's villains are, but most places probably still see them as something the GCPD should theoretically be able to deal with.
Also, I'm not sure how many other police commissioners are turning over full investigation and files to their city's hero.
Could also be that Batman is more vigilante than superhero... Depending on the story.
Jim Gordon is awesome.
BTAS' version is probably the best version (Sorry, Gary Oldman...)
I have always believed James Gordon was based on Teddy Roosevelt who was once Commissioner of Police in New York City (where the earliest Batman stories were set before it was quickly retconned to the fictional Gotham, which itself is a nickname for NYC).
The tragedy of Gotham is that this city cannot be saved by a "Knight in Shining Armor" like you'd normally expect. It sank so deep into corruption that a person like that who is in the open will eventually get chewed up and reduced to filth. A city like that needs a "Dark Knight" that uses the shadows to fight all that darkness, and luckily Gotham has one.
By not 'knowing' Gordon can also say under oath if he's asked by a grand jury or internal affairs that he doesn't know and there's no way to call him on it. Sure, he can have suspicions but there's no proof either way. And on 'suspicions' he can safely say there's no evidence and all he has is random speculation, which won't fly in any courtroom (or realistically investigation).
What he doesn't know he can't admit nor can he be pushed on. It's a safety valve for him. Also IIRC Barbara says in 'Revenge of the Joker' after Joker died that the information was shared with her father though I'm not sure of it.
I love the idea you bring up at the end - that Gordon has always known exactly who _the night shift_ is - only he doesn't want to know. This seems confirmed by _The Dark Knight Returns._ And it is indeed from Frank Miller's problematic hot takes that emerges this Gordon who is Batman's reluctant ally precisely because they both believe that the ends must justify the means.
But you're also quite right that the context is such an important element of the story. This has to be the city where no good deed goes unpunished, no crime unrewarded. Otherwise neither of them would make sense as a hero.
It's interesting, ultimately when you disentangle everything you can totally see how Frank Miller's politics are baked into the modern conception of Batman now, but at the same time other writers saw far more moral greys where Miller had intended paragons of outsider virtue and ran with that. So now we have really good storylines like James Gordon Jr. because neither Bruce nor Gordon are allowed to win, but they're also both shown as extremely flawed figures, so it all worked out in the end to create a much stronger sense of humanity for everyone.
Or in short, the morality of Holy Terror is what Frank Miller intended the first time around, but he was too good of a writer back then and so everyone thought he was aware that what he created was not aspirational.
Considering how inept Hamilton Hill is, I'm amazed he stays in office for as long as he does. To the point, that in the Batman Beyond era they even named a school after this guy. I'm guessing the only reason he manages all of this is due to the censorship rules making him not be corrupt. Plus, him keeping commissioner Gordon around probably does by proxy of Batman helping clear up delicate situations and crisis let Hill snag some of the glory from it by proxy of keeping Gordon on the job.
This does create an interesting thing to ponder on. If we assume that Hamilton Hill in all his incompetence stays in office chiefly due to Batman's alliance with Gordon turning up results and letting the major here get his share of the glory by proxy of his appointed commissioner here, it might mean Batman, as an unintended consequence, has some blame in the political institution of Gotham being kept stuck in limbo as an ineffective mess. And so because of this, nobody more competent gets to take over to do something about the root causes of all the crime and such. Though, at the same time, nobody worse also gets to take over. In the long term, though, keeping an inept but not corrupt guy in the chief position of power in Gotham isn't going to improve things, or is a very desirable thing.
Gotham is a radical situation and Batman is the radical solution. As much as he dose Break the law in almost every way Batman really is the only way to save the city and Commissioner Gordon knows this. He is a pious man but also a practical one. It’s an interesting concept That has plenty of opportunity for discussion.
Bob Hastings is my favorite Gordon voice. He captured the balance between tough/commanding leader and warm parental figure perfectly. I do feel his new adventures redesign is under criticized compared to others. They made him looks so thin and weak that a small wind would have killed him.
He stopped smoking, too. It's been theorized that he had cancer in between BTAS and TNBA. He beat it, but it took an enormous toll on him.
One look he gives Batman and Robin on the pier at the end of Robin's Reckoning Part II tells me he knows and he's letting it slide.
What I love about Jim is that, despite his failures and mistakes, he's still a good man at his core. He always tries his best to do what's right, even if he has to bend the rules. Even then, he kind of respects the limitations placed on him.
10:36 Oh look it's Apollo Justice.
Noticed a previous comment about the clothing style of BTAS characters. I would definitely enjoy a top 10 greatest BTAS outfits, both vigilante and civilian.
Fun fact: Gil Mason, if you look very carefully, was modeled after Kevin Costner as Elliot Ness in the 1987 film THE UNTOUCHABLES!❤
That is one heck of a good movie.
What a great video. Gordon has been one of my favorite characters in batman as i got older, but now this video really solidified it. Maybe DC could one day introduce an attorney character so we can see the law at work in gotham
I dunno, we all know what happened to Gotham's most famous (district) attorney...
If there's one proverb that explains Gordon's mindset, i think it would be this: "Desperate times command desperate measures."
The big thing I liked about Batman Year One is the establishment of Gordon’s plausible deniability, in the climax when Bruce Wayne rescues Gordon’s infant son using the acrobatics that only Batman could perform. Gordon’s statement that he couldn’t see without his glasses *might* be a lie, but its plausibility allows Wayne / Batman to function without the “secret ID question” turning into a block.
"thank goodness this is all make-believe" is my motto.
5:26 It's hinted that Jim might have cheated on Barbara with Sarah in the Arkham games too because the code Officer Jones gives Batman to verify that he's one of the cops undercover in Penguin's gang is Sarah.
Gordon is a morally gray character who tries to keep things by the book.
I remember when I watched this show after playing the Arkham games I looked up some of the characters and mayor Hill was listed as being corrupt in the comics but he was not in this show whatsoever and I was confused to why so I thank you for the explanation why
Regardless of all the Bat fam members, Alfred and Gordon are by far my favorites, with Nightwing as a Close runner up, but Gordon and Alfred have been there since Day 1 of Batman. Gordon is Gothams White Knight always doing what's right and being the best of the GCPD and working with the boundaries the law restrictions he is given
Not to be that guy but technically Alfred didn't appear until the 16th issue. So more like day 3 of batman
TBF to Gordon and the rules/laws, just because something is legal, doesn't meant its moral per say
I am really glad that Barbara took on her father's job as commissioner in Batman Beyond instead of being shot and paralyzed by The Joker in the Batman story, The Killing Joke, which lead her into becoming Oracle. BTAS and Batman Beyond will always be the best shows in my eyes!
Gordon is in a city where if you play by the book by the letter, you won’t usually get results, so in a way, he’s forced to work with what he’s got to make Gotham a better place, which is why he works with Batman, doesn’t want IA looking into Bullock, he’s a good cop, just bends the rules time to time
I tend to like all variations of Batman and Joker, but I'm a little more picky with Gordon. BTAS Gordon is an all-timer, but I love DCAU vet's Kurtwood Smith performance in Beware the Batman.
Bryan Cranston of course kills it in Year One.
I wonder why they haven't casted Bryan Cranston to play Gordon in a live action Batman I feel he would perfect for a live action Gordon
@@tylerbertram7065 Yea he's a hell of a character actor he could do it no problem!
8:08
That's why I love the comic series connected to this show.
One comic had a "cured" Arnold Wesker relapsing because an actress he was working with was upset about her show being cancelled, so she reintroduced Arnold to Mr.Scarface to get revenge.
Another comic had Bruce illegally firing someone who was in a high position because that man was taking advantage of the people below him, and what he was doing was "technically legal", albeit morally bad.
Gotham's corruption doesn't go away if all the Rogues are rehabilitated, there is always going to be bad apples
Internal Affairs gets a bad rep becuase their job is to investigate other cops. Because American media is generally sympathetic to the lone wolf archetype and police in general, IA gets saddled with being "too concerned" with protocol at best, getting in the way of the "good" guys making tough decisions (like beating a man half to death or commiting more crimes than they're solving) or worse the IA officer is the corrupt one, obstructing the "plays by his own rules" hero. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Internal Affairs sucks as much as any other department, but the reason they're the go to bad cops in a lot of stories is largely because other cops don't like them
Brings into mind how I'm also annoyed that the FBI and CIA also get unsympathetic points even in favorite works of mine like Gravity Falls and Amphibia.
Won't lie, if I have a hand on possible sequels for said media, I would LOVE to give the aforementioned government/security agencies a more sympathetic involvement plus taking back a level in bad***ery, even if it means at the expense of the original protagonists at most.
@@michaelandreipalon359Dude, stop expecting realism in every piece of media! Some governments are corrupt and you are naive in thinking otherwise. Besides, Btas is an escape from realism. It is called escapist media for a reason and if you do not like that I suggest you stop watching bloody cartoons and go outside for your "realism."
@@michaelandreipalon359 because like today we see bad cops do bad thigns and get away with it
@@Revkor That much is true, and it's still cringingly tiresome. Even good cop shows like the Patlabor and Your're Under Arrest! animes at worst get bad raps from rabid law enforcement haters and closeted anarchists!
My favorite take and video you have done, more then just surface level and showing the kind of morality Gordan truly is utilitarian.
Technically, there are some references to there being corruption in GPT such as in the two-parter "Feat of Clay", after Raymond Bell gets arrested, Germs says to Daggett: "My contact on the force says Bell hasn't cracked, so far."
But I agree that for a show that would openly reference murder and even drugs, a couple of passing comments about a mole in the police force is probably not enough to really bring the viewer's attention to the fact there are corrupt officials in the city.
It's still interesting to note that Commissioner Gordon actually was the batman, and he wasn't as skilled a Bruce, nor as intelligent in ways, but showed he was able to wield the cowl when Bruce was away.
What I'm learning from this video is that Commisioner Gordon is Chaotic Good?!
A squeaky clean ideal cop wouldn’t last a week in Gotham. Everyone in that city has to bend the rules to survive (or outright break them in the villains’ case).
I know he was called " *_The_* Bat Man" at first, but It's so weird seeing Batman referred to as *"Bat-Man"* with a _hyphen_ like Spider-Man.
13:45 Are we sure? 😁
Thanks for another great upload packed with info.
Year One really was something special for all the characters.
His daughter as his sucessor is critial about her father metod (Batman Beyond).
She said in her introduction that her father was tolerant to break rule but she no, and her time as bat girl was young mistake (what she understand when become older and resposibility).
She directly blame Bruce about manipulate everythink that they help Batman on their free will when in reality they were manipulated.
Yeah. Beyond Barbara was such an interesting character, both in the show and all the comics. She was someone whose arc was learning essentially that Gotham now had a chance to have _normal_ superheroes who aren't all a bunch of lunatics being manipulated by the vigilante equivalent of Big Boss. In the show, that was about recognizing why they bent the rules in Gotham in the first place, and recognizing that Bruce didn't put Terry up to this but rather Terry put Bruce up to this. In the comics, that then also lead to her supporting a new Batgirl, whom had no connection to Bruce (like her originally) and exclusively was active in the most impoverished parts of Neo Gotham. Sadly that story ended up cut short, but I really like the concept of her wanting to try to be the support network for a vigilante in such a way that it can be "done right" from her POV.
@@PosthumanHeresy She said Bat girl was mistake, but she was happy everytime when she did somethink like throw batarang in villan =D
@@PosthumanHeresy She was angry on Bruce that "good men" end as lunatic hermit, she didn't want Terry end the same.
@@liszarezo3658She let her bitterness and pride consume her, and it almost got her husband killed. She almost arrested terry for a crime he did not commit because she was manipulated by Spellbinder.
@@zemox2534 Yes, but her bitter come from her father and Bruce actions.
I Def would have loved to see some of the Gotham corruption through the cops, even if it was background cop characters that were seen in a Thorne or Zucco mob meeting, maybe just subtle enough for the adult fans ro notice and catch on so kids don't get the jaded message
I've got to admit a tough Gordon is really really good
If there was no Batman or batfamily, Gotham would become Vice City only with supervillains
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There's a bit in the early BTAS Writer's Guide that I've always liked: On Gordon's first day as Commissioner, he shows up at police headquarters in his old patrol uniform to show that he's still a beat cop at heart. I wish they could've gotten that into the series somehow.
Excellent video. Your work highlights to me how and why I like the character and world of Batman yet have problems with many depictions of the character and his cast. I'm also learning alot about Batman.
I guess it didnt show up as much in the animated series but in the comics and some of the "full feature" animated movies; the obsessive detective side of Gordan also pokes through a lot more. He is very much the kind og cop who needs to go through a personal box of cold case files in his off time no matter how many years its been and unable he would be to prosecute or save anyone. I perosnally came up with oneshot story concept involving Barbara and Damian discovering Bruce has a secret case. A seriel killer/assasin who has randomly taken out a long list of people with nearly no calling card true pattern or proof to being the same killer aside form some very subtle patterns Bruce has noticed. Despite thsi he has been unable to identify and aprehend the killer but insist it is someyhing he needs to do alone. The bat computer is used by someone that night in regaurd to the case and the internet is utilized. The next day, the killer reveals himself publically under a persona, recognizing that he knows Batman is now onto him and thus he will shoft strategies and kill an entire list of people across the world at once at the end of the day. The only way to do this is to find him out and stop whatever meathod he planend on useinh. Batman suspects Damien was at fault but Barbara reveals she was the one who made the late night aytemtp just to help Bruce. This is very out of character for her and Batman feels bettayed so he bans the both from interfering and tells Barbara she is on a probation from bat family activities. Bruce eventually discovers the truth about the assain and that it is an obsessiev dark reflection of himself. An rich older man who mostly used his resources to stelthily snipe people he felt wronged him over the years to help better the world but in a scattered pattern to throw off anyone catching him. He reveals the stunt was less about batman being on his lead and more realizing how similar the two were sonce he was able to learn Batmans identity and motivations. Ge felt batman was a failure by never killing his foes and ending the root of thw problem but now saw himself similarly, having slowly picked off people he determined the problem but never solveing the worlds issues. To thiss revalation he decidef to go out with a bang, killing he rest on his list remotly while Bruce was right in front of him and helpless to do anything. Of course nothing happens and Barbara acting as oracle was able to prevent the kilojngs with the help of the bat family amd other heros across the world. After the final confrontation between Batman and his killer, Bruce has a talk with Barbara who we had seen visitig her father and doing her normal life stuff throughout. She apologizes for stepping out of line but reveals her true intentions. As much as she loves and respects her father, she wayed her family fall apart, her brother turn into an insane madman and suffer the kind of trials of being the child of an obsessive cop. Shes seen her fahther spend every firday nigjt going over the same distrubonh photos and evidence for decades and the toll its taken on him..the life and future he threw away for it. The connections he threw away between her and him. She lived and respects Bruce like a father and when she learned he had a secret obsessive cold case from when he first became Batman, she freaked out in fear of him winding up down the same path. Batman is already obsessed with stopoung the crime of Gothem and knew this but thar one extra step was just too close to home and she felt if she could do SOMETHING to help him resolve it..find some little clue he missed, she could help him find some closure on that case and maybe even find a happier path as a result. The story ends with her visiting Gordan one friday night only for him to suddenly have a chnage of heart and decide yo watch a movie on TV with her like they used to when she was just a kid. This is obviouly the most skeltal verisok of this story and the true emphasis will be more on the relationships between Bruce, Barbara her father, the mysetery assasin and the personal connections they all have to each other through the concept of ovsession. Even though each character has differeing obsessions or impulses that drive them, they all have flaws as a result that they must recognize by the end of the story. I always saw Gordan as equally obsessive to Bruce but just in a different postion and always wondered what Barbara thought of that. We didnt get so much in the animated series aside from breif moments and the episode you mentioned where Barbara hallucinated her own death. I think it is a bit of a sad cop out (pun intended) since it isnt actually Gordon being portrayed this way finally but it is some great insite on how Barbara sees her daf. The fact her greatest fear is that he would obsessivly hubt down her other father figure for her death really says something about both Gordon and the impact this has had on his daughter. We clearly see him less intense about the truth as we would expect by the end and even infering he knows/is accepting of it..but i also doby feel it would ve completely out of character for him to act how she dreamed. Weve even mroe recebtly seen Gordon play the solo cop on brutal secret missions in the comics. In a whole family of obsessuve crime fighters he is certianly one of the big ones despite not really being a part of the vigilante
front.
I too loved the focus on deep character exploration from BTAS and so the abouve story was one of a trilogy I had come up with exploring specifically characters in the batfamily with the main being Bruce himself. Another one would be the Spirit of Halloween, introducing a villain by the same name. A doofy phycho who decided to pull a stunt with the Batsignal on halloween a year prior to the start of the story, and resulting in his death. However, the signal is messed with again, the bat becoming the mouth of a jack o latern but a red glaze drips down. A women is found dead at the scene and the calling card of yhe spirot of halloween is found. Whats more, Bruce is gebuinly shaken up when he learns the identity of thw young woman. He forbids Damien from getting involved and gets Alfred to attempt preoccupying him. The mystery starts on who the spirit really is, what his motivations are, if there really is more to him than the amaturr goofball he seemed to have been, what involvmnet he had with the young woman and who she was to Bruce. It turns out she was Bruces secret daughter and what is more..she was conceived by Batman...not Bruce. It happened early in his carreer. After savaing a woman beong burgled in her apartment but caught of gaurd by one of the crooks, Batman is injured. She hides and takes care of yhe recoving hero overnight as he regains his feet. In a case of Florance Nightingale syndrom, Bruce falls to some passion for his "nurse" which would ultimatly resumt in her prenancy. Despite trying to reach out and do the right thing, she denies any financial assistance from Bruce and so he stays estrnaged, sending gifts instead. His daughter does grow up and safly her mother dies still young but she continues to resist any contact, allowing the fund he set up for her to remain untouched. Bruce is unsure if her mother ever told her the truth of his identity so finding her specifocally dead in this way is both an emotional gut to thw stomache as well as a serious concenr for the safety of the bat family. Damien was also never made aware of his half sister. By the end we learn that Bruce's daughter was not up to any no good. She met the villains alter ego in college and started a relationship with him. It is infered that the villain MAY know the truth but it is still ambiguous if that is the case or if he learned it from her somhow. This further leads to the possible guilt of her death due to her connection with batman and whether the spirit would have done what he did if he and Bruces daughter never came into contact. Not rvetything js as it seems and he had been manipualting people for his grand plan since at least somtime after he met Bruces daughter (Bryce for less confusion going furhter.) Bruce does get some resolution when a letter is left to him from Bryce in the event of her death. She reveals that her mother never hated Bruce. She always told Bryce he was a hero who was helpung save Gothem but its left uncalrified if thsi just means as Bruce Wayne or Batman. She had always hoped that they would soemday get to ckme together but knew it woud not be the best for any of them at the time. She refused any monetary asisstance since she did not feel owed it but blessed by him and the daughter they had. She rasied Bryce to be strong and independent like her mother and fater so she went on to put herself through law school. She left the fund for herself intact promising herself she would one day get to a point in her career that she could finally feel worth introducing herself to her dad and creating a charity organization with the money he had reserved for her future. She expressed her regret at failing to do this and finally meeting him but assured him she and her mother always felt his presence and appreciated him (futher illusions to her knowing he was Batman, keeping an eye on them.) The story ends with the spirit getting away, leaving no hint at his true identity or origins beyond what he wnated them to find. In his own words, he gave Batman a trick for one halloween and a treat for the other so he was done for now. Perhaps he would be back for more halloween mischief but that isnt for him to decide for now. Damien finds out the truth but is able to offer bruce understanding and empathy in a needed role resersal as the savings left back to Bruce is used to create the Bryce Wayne Charity Legal Fund for Victims of Crime. The possibilty that a phycho knows who bruce is, killed his daughter and now can threaten the rest of his family looms over them but the bat family stand together. This one focuses again on the servets of bruce that even the rest of the bat family doesn't know about but with more emphasis on his relationship with Damien. There are also a few obvious parralels with his estranged daughter and Barabara on a role reversal of Gordon/Batman and crimes victim attorney Bryce/Batgirl.
Gordon will never act on Batman _so long as Batman does not commit murder._ If Batman ever takes a life, and Gordon finds out--and he WILL find out--he would shut down the entire operation in a week. Cops would be sent to the manor, and Alfred would cooperate. Even if Bats outwits the cops, it's still when, not if, he'll be caught.
Very nice! I am enjoying these videos a lot An interesting look at Jim Gordon! Thanks for the video!
Gotta appreciate a bit on how B: TAS isn't set on the dark days of the GCPD. Kind of like how the deaths of the Waynes (another advantage for B: TAS), and also of Uncle Ben in Spider-Man tales, really deserve to be skipped at most nowadays, due to being already familiar enough for the mind's eye to picture them so vividly.
If it were me, I would ditch the unfaithfulness parts for Gordon and just keep him loyal to his wife through and through, up to the point that things won't end in divorce, "bus crashes", or "fridge stuffing". However, Sarah Essen is better off kept as a proud and unflinching wingwoman to the soon-to-be Commissioner up until she gets transferred to bigger things outside Gotham (she could end up a good detective for Dakota City, for one).
Oh, and appreciate how Hamilton Hill is virtually uncorrupted in the DCAU... and no, am not gonna count his involvement with The Adventures Continue's Court of Owls as primary canon.
9:53: No, unfortunately.
I still think Harvey Dent is the better sounding "white knight". The Dark Knight sure spoiled me on that.
Gorden is a good person in a corrupt city, he's no knight in shining armor but he's got just enough morals to get the job done and work outside the law to make Gotham just a bit safer.
To put the end in other terms, Jim is a solid character of gray.
Put on a white background, he would stand out as a darker character, but put on a black background like Gotham he stands out as if white.
Also, such is another reason why it was a shame for the series to not be allowed themes of political corruption, because it tried to make Gotham an almost identical shade of gray and thus both Batman and Jim's characters were undermined and incapable of standing out as powerfully as they normally would on such a background colour.
Amazing analysis
Thanks!
No, thank you!
Sometimes, breaking the rules is the right thing to do
if pepole are intrested in this type of character, Sam Vines of the Discworld ank mork pork night watch in terry pratechets Gaurds Guards! is probably a great place for you to start, sam lives very much the "coper" life where he is desperately trying to keep a city of crime and corruption honest, and this may include a brass knuckle in the pocket, not officially ofcourse.
Kinda reminds me of the 66 show where Batman and Robin were deputized and technically worked for the police. Really shows that no matter the tone, Batman and Gordon are a package deal.
Having an affair while his wife is pregnant is indeed a scummy move. I wish we had never had it.
I really enjoy BTAS and the New Animated Series, as well as the Justice League seasons. Would love to say I'd watched Batman Beyond since childhood, but I simply didn't find the time to while I was on the binge.
And Gordon is an interesting character. I do think of him as a hero in the DC universe, but he's definitely morally gray. At least in TAS, Batman actually tries to offer help to some of the villains. It's a version of him that I like, and in the New Animated Series, I was quite surprised. He seemed a lot more gloomy, and I think he and Robin had a falling out. Very different from before.
The trouble is that Gotham City itself is kind of a monster; it turns its citizens into superheroes, villains and monsters. And Gordon and Batman are perhaps the strongest defense against its corruption, strange and paradoxical as that sounds. My guess is that any actually 'good' commissioner or other member of the force sent to Gotham would get gobbled up; either corrupted by the city or left in a gutter. There are supervillains running about, and while all of those are locked up in Arkham, there's all the mundies to worry about. Gordon might be one of the few people that could 'make it' over there.
Personally I'd wager that showing off corrupt politicians and policemen would've been rather controversial at the time, like other commenters have written.
Epic show review 😊😊
I never liked Bullock. Ever...but Jim Gordon is a hero. He's not perfect, he's like every one of us. We try our best. He's doing what he can for everyone in the mess that is Gotham City.
I like the Gordon in the White Knight. He's loyal to Batman and his tactics, and also hesitant to follow jack. But eventually even he sees that Batmans leash was too loose, and tries to grab a hold on him, in what I think is one of the most Badass things Gordon could do, driving a freaking Batmobile. Which also shows his Loyalty to Gotham.
From Chicago to Gotham? That’s brutal
Lore of Gotham’s Tarnished White Knight: Commissioner Gordon | Batman The Animated Series momentum 100
He mentions having dinner with Judge Maria Vargas in 'The Strange Secret of Bruce Wayne episode' meaning he also willingly associated with a firestarter, a twisted firestarter. I don't think that really furthers his moral flexibility, I'll imagine he forced her to pay for it on the basis of 'I bring the criminals in, so it's the least you could do for me' conveniently not mentioning how much Batman helps with that.
Hope caped crusader will show politicians and politics
I am fairly certain that it's going to be able to cover more mature themes, based on who's writing it!
@@SerumLakei mean writers are one thing but what if the executive producers have other plans? Call me a cynic but i think we need to gird our expectations till the show comes out.
Isn't the last Batman move did this?
Gordon in DCAU reminds of Thomas Harris’ Jack Crawford and how he’ll send Graham and Starling into harm’s way so he can maybe get a glimpse at the Tooth Fairy or Buffalo Bill. But, like Jim, he lets certain slide cause of the results but he does care for those he works with. Flawed and in the wrong quite often, yes. Bad/Evil character, far from it.
And in Season 2 of the Hannibal show he works with Will to try to catch Lecter.
“This is a great video about Jim but I doubt he’ll mention Woobie-“
“We know he has a daughter, Barbara, and he’s very fond of her stuffed bear, Woobie, for some reason,”
Oh my god I love your videos so much
As much as I think "I Am the Night" really gives Gordon the short end of the stick, I love a certain detail it established about the DCAU version that I think ought to be in wider canon: that he shares a year of birth with Thomas Wayne.
Yeah that’s a nice detail. Really hammers home the notion of him being a father figure to Batman
I’ve always loved the idea that Gordon…or at least a few versions of Gordon…PROBABLY knows who Batman is, even if he never acts on/confirms it
“ only recurring bat man character there since day one” and bat man
SUPER NICE
Loved the video. But you might want to rethink that zooming in shot on the Thanks button…it kinda…zooms in on a little girl’s…well…too.
I just realized why we don't get decent live action sidekicks. Animation, Comics, Books, etc, all of those are easy to put in that box of "it's make believe, a fantasy, fiction". Live action movies however aren't so easy to suspend belief. Especially if your going to go the goth route and it would be hard to make a live action similar to a TAS storyline and sell it! Spider-man is easy in comparison and even then they aged him up in the first live actions to come out... which I actually liked more then him being a kid. So there it is. Gritty goth batman can't have a sidekick because asking us to compartmentalize his actions as pure fiction in a live action would be a rather hard sell for the audience. I feel kinda dumb, ouch.
Hey j really like this episode i hope you can do a episode on Dan Turpin & Maggie Sawyer & something on Lex Luthor too 😊
They are on the list 🫡
@@SerumLake cool 😎
Also could you do one on Slade Wilson from Teen Titans (03) 😀 , Derek Powers ( Blight ) & Metallo & Livewire ( I ❤️these 2 because their VAs were both in The movie Tank Girl ) and Gorilla Grodd ( from Justice League Unlimited)
I think S&P at Fox and the WB really couldn't corruption at the top which undermined Gordon's character a lot.
Circus performers that willing work with evil incarnate.
Well, he is just like Oldman's only between the lines.
6:50
To be fair
It was heavily implied to the point where until you said it never registered to me that we never see explicitly corrupt politicians
Like
I think for example the fact that that cops like bullock and Gordon are believed to be on the take kinda confirms that a lot of the gcpd is on the take
Seems like Gordon would be a Neutral Good.
Although I agree with your sentiment about BTAS, I disagree that corruption doesn't smudge its way into the show. I can see that the police in particular are seen as a bit more simplistic, however, with Rupert Thorne, Lyle Bolton and the impartial Hamilton Hill, it shows kids an easily understood form of corruption.
For example, the amount of times that Thorne had been prevented custody shows how not only easy for him to find a loop hole in the law, but how accustomed it becomes with the various villains.
Lyle Bolton is a good example as well; with his twisted view on the patients of Arkham. Although he was immediately punished for his wrong doings, the fact that he was given such an opportunity indicates that there's as much corruption in Arkham Asylum itself as the police department.
Hamilton honestly doesn't need any introduction, but needless to say, he has let a lot of things slide. Even though Gordon could be just as much to blame for these turn of events. he is improving the prevention in Gotham.
Fief (and by extension fiefdom) is pronounced "feef", owing to its germanic/anglo-saxon roots. A "fife" is a type of woodwind instrument. ^^
Wasn't the rookie cop's name Jimmy...? 🤔
I've always liked the Commish. In a world full of corruption, you can't always Lawful Good your way through it, following the rules, obeying due process, going by the book. Sometimes you have to break a few rules, and jaws, to ensure what evil you *can* reach ends up in hell where it belongs, while eyeing the evil you can't yet get at and silently vowing, "One day, you sonuvabitch...".
But Gordon's not a bad man, far from it - he just understands all this and has to operate in the gray areas, because the odds are stacked against him. He's one mortal man arrayed against an army of darkness...but the Bat is a welcome - even wished-for - extension, a proxy almost. An invincible eidolon who can help fulfill Gordon's goals of combating corruption and monstrosity, who can get shit *done* and not have to worry about paperwork or inviting the unsurvivable ire of the powers-that-should-not-be.
To use an old analogy, Jim Gordon is the opposote of a dark silhouette with a silver lining - he's a bright silhouette with a dark corona. And a very large, winged shadow at his shoulder.
I fail to see how confessing his affair to his wife and accepting the consequences of doing so is a negative quality or something that goes against his Pius nature. The affair itself absolutely, but it makes sense that he’d own up to his mistakes as that is the right thing to do.
Other than that you mostly hit the nail on the head. The only other thing is the thing will that Bullock and criminal behaviour the press wouldn’t want to know. I think it was something more episode localized as in the plot was around it, but I can’t remember what that was
I liked the concept of Gotham in TAS. The Police aren't corrupt, but Gotham is basically just overrun with Crime. Crime is everywhere and the GCPD can't keep up.
Jim appreciates Batman because he's helping stop the excessive crime. Keeping Gotham under control. When they think hes slipped up (I.E Manbat episode) They go on full alert because they think they lost their only help, only to realize that its the opposite. Gotham is just a weird place and filled with Undesirables, and Jim with the commissioner only hires honest people, while criminals or the corrupt get fired in less then a week if they do join the GCPD because of having a tight hold on who is involved.
Jimmy!
Gordon probably got booted out of Chicago PD cause he probably thought Dr. Richard Kimble was actually innocent
Commissioner Gordon is 9 of Spades ♠️♠️♠️♠️♠️♠️♠️♠️♠️ Happy 😁 New 🆕 Year Blessings and Hugs 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜
Justice and law are different things
6:41
And I'm ok with that! 😊
Batman Year One is Frank Miller's best work for me. The Dark Knight Returns despite helping to cement Batman for modern times took too much pleasure in its own satire and left the story too cluttered for my taste. But I'd still be curious to know your own opinion of Frank Miller's general work.
Yeah it’s always interesting how we can apologize for and even root for someone in fiction who would be absolutely horrible in real life
"There is one more story worth bringing up"
The moment that was said, I knew it would be "The Killing Joke". God, that story is ESPECIALLY painful from Gordon's end. Yeah, it's painful from Batman's perspective, but Gordon's the one who suffered much of the stuff to which he served as a proxy to inflict emotional pain unto Batman. Not to play the pain olympics between them, both of their pains are very valid in the story, I envy Gordon's position in that story MUCH less than Batman's.
This video shows how English you are, dear friend. Unfortunately in many other countries legal doesn't mean moral and good people are forced to bend the rules in order to save lives, almost as much as bad people. And that's what animated Gordon is, a good man more so than a good cop.