I understand the line about polyamory was meant to be humor, and others have said similar, but after reading the book this may be one of the few love triangle stories where polyamory would explicitly not solve anything. David's struggles are much more rooted in his own concept of masculinity, and how he struggles when those concepts are challenged. This makes it seem that, even if polyamory was widely accepted, the events of the story would largely be the same. Though a poly good end sounds so nice
I suppose it's an interesting thought experiment, especially because David's toxic masculinity and heteronormative bias are products of the society he lives in, so maybe while the canon version of David would definitely still be a horrible partner if he attempted a polyamorous relationship, a hypothetical alt-universe David who grew up in a society where polyamory was accepted might have more of a chance
i read giovannis room and it burned into my soul, unfortunately I was David once in my life, a coward manipulating the girls i loved and left the ladies damaged to where one of them had a life altering experience that she still deals with even to this day. i never read something so relatable that it made me realize my experience is as universal as love itself
I do believe that Hella herself, though saying she is in love with David, had more placed her mind in settling down, not necessarily with David. She seems, throughout the novel, to be truly focused on the idea of finding a man so she can settle down and become a woman. For this reason, I believ her character was made to lack the same desperation fo needing David as Giovanni, as for her, though she loved him, she could find what she needed, which was to settle down, with another person. And as for Giovanni, what he wanted was not a lifestyle but David himself
Remember that the dilemma and the connections to two cultures is from David’s perspective. Hella and Giovanni are firmly rooted in their respective cultures and have no intent on changing that. It’s David specifically who is torn between cultures in this story
But we can't embrace the idea of polyamory imagine all those Manga artists who would lose their work if they couldn't use the love drama in their work. Plus getting along with one person is hard enough.
@@animaticlunatic9259 I know so if we did embrace polyamory then harem series would lose meaning. Which would be a boon to the world of entertainment in my opinion.
Wow. I just finished Giovannis room and the whole time I was like dude, your gay just accept it. I feel like a real idiot now because it’s now so obvious that David is bi/pan.
Are there any other novels that feature bi or pan protagonists that you have enjoyed? Tell us in a reply to this comment so viewers can scroll through for recommendations!
Not really a protagonist but I think that Rick Riordan novels do an excellent job with LGBT representation, specifically with the character Niko DiAngello
Raptor by Gary Jennings! It's not a well known novel, to my knowledge, but it has a very unique protagonist. The Protag is a hermaprodite by nature and its interesting seeing them explore both sexual/intimate relationships as a woman and sometimes as a man but knowing they're something in between. It's a long read but i HIGHLY recommend it!!!
Someone I had a crush on waited almost a year to tell me if they just wanted to DATE me, all while we were still hanging out as friends and it was eating me alive. I think it was cowardice to just not tell me. We are still friends, don't get me wrong, but it was cowardice. Maybe Hella is as much a coward as David is.
re: "I'm offering criticism to JAMES BALDWIN, I've gone Full TH-camr" This is a guess on my part, but I'm guessing James was never a woman. Another guess from me is perhaps this made writing women a little harder. My final guess is maybe there are academic college people discussing Hella's portrayal somewhere so YOU don't feel like you have to be the one critiquing James Baldwin. It's a valid point to watch out for while reading, though. Whether by accidental omission, or because simply "the story isn't about her", don't expect the text to be too in-depth about Hella.
2 things: 1, I now want to get the book and 2, despite the fact I never became part of a romantic relationship with anyone, I sympathize with the problems of the protagonist of the novel. I really liked the video Edit: I put Emphasis instead of Sympathize, which was what I intended to put in. I apologize for any misunderstanding editing also seems to remove the heart, sorry about that
Your not wrong about polyamory, although I definitely know that there are people who would not go for it which would make there still be love triangles. Also, I like how you recommended si other books along with this one. Never read call me by your name novel, but I did like the movie.
Yes!! I read this novel for class and it is a wonderful read! Lowkey hate David a little but I feel like your review of the book deepened my understandings.
Honestly, ever getting to know polygamous peeps and seeing how well their relationships can work out I have no time for love triangles. Also this book has been sitting on my shelf for a while now. I should get around to it.
usually don't comment cause i don't usually hear absolutes on this channel. 100% of love triangles don't simply hinge on the societal outlook on polyamory. just because a social stigma against it is eliminated doesn't mean everyone is going to be comfortable with their partner being in a relationship with other people. even if they are it still doesn't mean that they would be comfortable with they specific individuals their partners are attracted too.
I meant the polyamory comment as a joke, but perhaps it wasn't clear enough that I was joking, which is my fault. I was trying to poke fun at the fact that love triangles are an incredibly common source of conflict in fiction, but that polyamory is still incredibly rare by comparison. I understand that there are still people who are only comfortable in closed monogamous relationships, and cheating is still a thing in polyamorous relationships as well, however I thought the notion that polyamory acceptance "would solve everything" was enough of an exaggeration to come across as humorous rather than a genuine opinion.
Nah, no worries. It's useful feedback for me because it lets me know how people are interpreting what I write/perform. My job is essentially to try and communicate my intention clearly, so if my audience misinterprets what my intention was, then that shows I have more room for improvement as a communicator.
@@CloudCuckooCountry nah man, you gonna lose a bunch of the punch from your jokes if you start beating folks over the head with the answer. if i need a chuckle i can always turn to the purple dinosaur
Honestly I disagree that accepting polygamy as society would solve love triangles as humans are naturally greedy and therefore would always seek to keep their partner to themselves and not share them. Personally I never understood the idea of polygamy if you have any insight into why one might engage in it ,especially when it comes to two males and one female, I would love to hear it.
So I've actually gotten to know the polyamory community in the past couple of years and I am now personally acquainted with many people in polyamorous arrangements (they're called "polycules"). From the polycules I've talked to, partner jealousy is *sometimes* an issue, but it's not actually an insurmountable problem for most. I can understand if you're skeptical if you've never had the chance to get to know people in stable polyamorous relationships, but I myself have first-hand proof that polyamory does work for some people. If you don't like the idea of polyamory as something that you would do, that's fine tho. Some people just feel more secure or more satisfied in monogamous relationships and that's okay. When I said "100% of love triangles would be solved" that was a joke-y exaggeration.
CloudCuckooCountry thanks for the answer most of the people in my friend circle are very traditional and I myself would consider myself that as well. I thought it be interesting to hear someone else’s view point who has different world view then I do and it was.
You sound like someone who’s never really interacted with a polyamorous person. This is not an insult to you, as our community is small, but some of the things you mentioned made me as a polyamorous person uncomfortable. Polyamorous relationships are just like any other romantic relationship. The only difference is that it requires more work and communication for each person to get what they need out of the relationship. They are in no way different to your stereotypical romance, and oftentimes those who engage in polyamorous relationships develop a significantly higher emotional intelligence and better communication skills. And the idea that gender would have any bearing on one’s relationship with jealousy is rather sexist and inaccurate. Men are not naturally more aggressive or possessive, and to say so is placing an entire gender in an ill-fitting box. I do not mean to insult you here, rather i suggest you do more research or communicate with some actual polyamorous people before making assumptions on how our relationships look and behave. Personally, every polyamorous relationship i have seen has been three people dating each-other and the reasons they fell apart were exactly the same reasons that a couple would fall apart. Having another person there does not change the health or proper functionality of a relationship. In fact, i’ve heard of a polyamorous group of 5 people that was healthy and well functioning, lasting for 10+ years.
@@ceilingeye "You sound like someone who’s never really interacted with a polyamorous person. This is not an insult to you, as our community is small, but some of the things you mentioned made me as a polyamorous person uncomfortable." This is true I have had very little interaction with polyamorous people. "I do not mean to insult you here, rather i suggest you do more research or communicate with some actual polyamorous people before making assumptions on how our relationships look and behave." None taken I wanted to learn at least from people that have experience in this community instead of just hand waving it as a sign of a dying relationship. Since you said you are poly maybe you can answer this question. Do you feel a need to be in love with more then one partner when you seek a relationship or is it more like you are cool with involving more then one person in the relationship to share the love with if that happens later down the line?
Braver Leech definitely the latter! I’m perfectly comfortable in a relationship with only one person, however, if I find a person that both my partner and I are romantically attracted to, I will encourage us to peruse them and invite them into the relationship. If my partner is uncomfortable with dating more than one person, I will be perfectly comfortable dating only them.
I understand the line about polyamory was meant to be humor, and others have said similar, but after reading the book this may be one of the few love triangle stories where polyamory would explicitly not solve anything. David's struggles are much more rooted in his own concept of masculinity, and how he struggles when those concepts are challenged. This makes it seem that, even if polyamory was widely accepted, the events of the story would largely be the same.
Though a poly good end sounds so nice
I suppose it's an interesting thought experiment, especially because David's toxic masculinity and heteronormative bias are products of the society he lives in, so maybe while the canon version of David would definitely still be a horrible partner if he attempted a polyamorous relationship, a hypothetical alt-universe David who grew up in a society where polyamory was accepted might have more of a chance
i read giovannis room and it burned into my soul, unfortunately I was David once in my life, a coward manipulating the girls i loved and left the ladies damaged to where one of them had a life altering experience that she still deals with even to this day. i never read something so relatable that it made me realize my experience is as universal as love itself
I couldn't even get halfway through the video without ordering the novel.
Same but I was too poor
I do believe that Hella herself, though saying she is in love with David, had more placed her mind in settling down, not necessarily with David. She seems, throughout the novel, to be truly focused on the idea of finding a man so she can settle down and become a woman. For this reason, I believ her character was made to lack the same desperation fo needing David as Giovanni, as for her, though she loved him, she could find what she needed, which was to settle down, with another person. And as for Giovanni, what he wanted was not a lifestyle but David himself
Remember that the dilemma and the connections to two cultures is from David’s perspective. Hella and Giovanni are firmly rooted in their respective cultures and have no intent on changing that. It’s David specifically who is torn between cultures in this story
100% on that polyamory comment
But we can't embrace the idea of polyamory imagine all those Manga artists who would lose their work if they couldn't use the love drama in their work.
Plus getting along with one person is hard enough.
There is a difference between polyamory and a harem. In harem, all girls love one guy and maybe each other, while polyamory, everyone loves everyone.
@@animaticlunatic9259 I know so if we did embrace polyamory then harem series would lose meaning. Which would be a boon to the world of entertainment in my opinion.
Wow. I just finished Giovannis room and the whole time I was like dude, your gay just accept it. I feel like a real idiot now because it’s now so obvious that David is bi/pan.
Personally I am not so sure. It involves labels and labels tend to be limiting.
@@Scottsteaux63 cant argue that at all actually. Thank you for pointing that out.
Why is her name Hella cause her man Hella gay?! oh snap I just went there
ngl This made me laugh
Seeing all of these poses of yours is making me want to commission art of your character as a stand user.
Do it nerd
I recognized that guest speaker instantly and for that, I'm getting the book pronto
Still need to get around to this one. Always seems to be unavailable at my local library, though your recommendation has spurred my interest again!
Definitely going to try to get this once I'm not so overwhelmed with school, thanks for bringing it to my attention!
I love that you put Call Me By Your Name in the classics section. It really is.
Aaaand, I orderd the book. Thank you for introducing me to it, I probably never would've heard about it!
Are there any other novels that feature bi or pan protagonists that you have enjoyed?
Tell us in a reply to this comment so viewers can scroll through for recommendations!
Not really a protagonist but I think that Rick Riordan novels do an excellent job with LGBT representation, specifically with the character Niko DiAngello
Raptor by Gary Jennings! It's not a well known novel, to my knowledge, but it has a very unique protagonist. The Protag is a hermaprodite by nature and its interesting seeing them explore both sexual/intimate relationships as a woman and sometimes as a man but knowing they're something in between. It's a long read but i HIGHLY recommend it!!!
seems a bit odd to me that somebody that needs to think about a proposal for an entire year. A week I get, but a YEAR??
Someone I had a crush on waited almost a year to tell me if they just wanted to DATE me, all while we were still hanging out as friends and it was eating me alive. I think it was cowardice to just not tell me. We are still friends, don't get me wrong, but it was cowardice.
Maybe Hella is as much a coward as David is.
It's really a shame that your in-depth review is getting less views than the literal clickbait video. Hammers the point home.
re: "I'm offering criticism to JAMES BALDWIN, I've gone Full TH-camr"
This is a guess on my part, but I'm guessing James was never a woman. Another guess from me is perhaps this made writing women a little harder. My final guess is maybe there are academic college people discussing Hella's portrayal somewhere so YOU don't feel like you have to be the one critiquing James Baldwin.
It's a valid point to watch out for while reading, though. Whether by accidental omission, or because simply "the story isn't about her", don't expect the text to be too in-depth about Hella.
Did CCC just advocate for polyamory? I think this is now my favorite youtuber
2 things: 1, I now want to get the book and 2, despite the fact I never became part of a romantic relationship with anyone, I sympathize with the problems of the protagonist of the novel.
I really liked the video
Edit: I put Emphasis instead of Sympathize, which was what I intended to put in. I apologize for any misunderstanding
editing also seems to remove the heart, sorry about that
Your not wrong about polyamory, although I definitely know that there are people who would not go for it which would make there still be love triangles. Also, I like how you recommended si other books along with this one. Never read call me by your name novel, but I did like the movie.
Very good but oh my f****** god the sexism.
Commenting for the engagement. Also been really loving these videos.
Glad you've been enjoying them. I've enjoyed making them
Lovely video! Added this one on my to read list! :D
that narrated bit gave me severe Kyel Gold flashbacks...
Yes wonder how this book was received back in the mid 50’s.......
Underrated video.
Thanks!
Yes!! I read this novel for class and it is a wonderful read! Lowkey hate David a little but I feel like your review of the book deepened my understandings.
COMMENTING FOR ZE ALL POWERFUL ALGORITHM™
have a good day :)
It's wierd to be strait nowdays.
Honestly, ever getting to know polygamous peeps and seeing how well their relationships can work out I have no time for love triangles.
Also this book has been sitting on my shelf for a while now. I should get around to it.
The hetero flag is usually black and white stripes.
Yes please, more polyamory
4:30
usually don't comment cause i don't usually hear absolutes on this channel.
100% of love triangles don't simply hinge on the societal outlook on polyamory. just because a social stigma against it is eliminated doesn't mean everyone is going to be comfortable with their partner being in a relationship with other people.
even if they are it still doesn't mean that they would be comfortable with they specific individuals their partners are attracted too.
I meant the polyamory comment as a joke, but perhaps it wasn't clear enough that I was joking, which is my fault. I was trying to poke fun at the fact that love triangles are an incredibly common source of conflict in fiction, but that polyamory is still incredibly rare by comparison. I understand that there are still people who are only comfortable in closed monogamous relationships, and cheating is still a thing in polyamorous relationships as well, however I thought the notion that polyamory acceptance "would solve everything" was enough of an exaggeration to come across as humorous rather than a genuine opinion.
@@CloudCuckooCountry well i feel like a jackass XD
Nah, no worries. It's useful feedback for me because it lets me know how people are interpreting what I write/perform. My job is essentially to try and communicate my intention clearly, so if my audience misinterprets what my intention was, then that shows I have more room for improvement as a communicator.
@@CloudCuckooCountry nah man, you gonna lose a bunch of the punch from your jokes if you start beating folks over the head with the answer.
if i need a chuckle i can always turn to the purple dinosaur
Honestly I disagree that accepting polygamy as society would solve love triangles as humans are naturally greedy and therefore would always seek to keep their partner to themselves and not share them.
Personally I never understood the idea of polygamy if you have any insight into why one might engage in it ,especially when it comes to two males and one female, I would love to hear it.
So I've actually gotten to know the polyamory community in the past couple of years and I am now personally acquainted with many people in polyamorous arrangements (they're called "polycules"). From the polycules I've talked to, partner jealousy is *sometimes* an issue, but it's not actually an insurmountable problem for most. I can understand if you're skeptical if you've never had the chance to get to know people in stable polyamorous relationships, but I myself have first-hand proof that polyamory does work for some people.
If you don't like the idea of polyamory as something that you would do, that's fine tho. Some people just feel more secure or more satisfied in monogamous relationships and that's okay. When I said "100% of love triangles would be solved" that was a joke-y exaggeration.
CloudCuckooCountry thanks for the answer most of the people in my friend circle are very traditional and I myself would consider myself that as well. I thought it be interesting to hear someone else’s view point who has different world view then I do and it was.
You sound like someone who’s never really interacted with a polyamorous person. This is not an insult to you, as our community is small, but some of the things you mentioned made me as a polyamorous person uncomfortable.
Polyamorous relationships are just like any other romantic relationship. The only difference is that it requires more work and communication for each person to get what they need out of the relationship. They are in no way different to your stereotypical romance, and oftentimes those who engage in polyamorous relationships develop a significantly higher emotional intelligence and better communication skills.
And the idea that gender would have any bearing on one’s relationship with jealousy is rather sexist and inaccurate. Men are not naturally more aggressive or possessive, and to say so is placing an entire gender in an ill-fitting box.
I do not mean to insult you here, rather i suggest you do more research or communicate with some actual polyamorous people before making assumptions on how our relationships look and behave.
Personally, every polyamorous relationship i have seen has been three people dating each-other and the reasons they fell apart were exactly the same reasons that a couple would fall apart. Having another person there does not change the health or proper functionality of a relationship. In fact, i’ve heard of a polyamorous group of 5 people that was healthy and well functioning, lasting for 10+ years.
@@ceilingeye
"You sound like someone who’s never really interacted with a polyamorous person. This is not an insult to you, as our community is small, but some of the things you mentioned made me as a polyamorous person uncomfortable."
This is true I have had very little interaction with polyamorous people.
"I do not mean to insult you here, rather i suggest you do more research or communicate with some actual polyamorous people before making assumptions on how our relationships look and behave."
None taken I wanted to learn at least from people that have experience in this community instead of just hand waving it as a sign of a dying relationship.
Since you said you are poly maybe you can answer this question. Do you feel a need to be in love with more then one partner when you seek a relationship or is it more like you are cool with involving more then one person in the relationship to share the love with if that happens later down the line?
Braver Leech definitely the latter! I’m perfectly comfortable in a relationship with only one person, however, if I find a person that both my partner and I are romantically attracted to, I will encourage us to peruse them and invite them into the relationship. If my partner is uncomfortable with dating more than one person, I will be perfectly comfortable dating only them.
4 minutes in but no video with this little nudity has made me say "fuck" so much, yikes