Good video, very informative. I don't know why anyone ever fits a new single master though unless they have a death wish. Folks, if you're replacing the master, fit a dual. Nick you should be encouraging this and showing how it's done.
Hey tbirdsteve, there is nothing available to adapt that doesn't require modification of the shock tower cross brace since an aftermarket dual master cylinder doesn't fit in the space where the single master cylinder went. Do you know of a dual master cylinder readily available that will fit without having to modify the cross brace? I admit that the dual master setup is superior but I will never encourage anyone to modify their car like that. I have a video where I install an aftermarket brake booster and dual master cylinder onto a 1962 Thunderbird but it fit nicely and I didn't have to modify the car in any way. The single master is okay, I've never heard of anyone crashing because of a brake leak even though I'm sure it has happened. The brake systems in these cars are pretty stout. I'm comfortable with a single on my car. Thanks.
Hello Nick; bought a 66 Landau in 2017 been working on it since then, Johnny Cash's song "IVE Been Everywhere, Man, kind of sums up where I been in this car, changing the lyrics of places for parts and repairs! Yours and joernone videos have been an immense help, your video on the springs for the carburetor an other insights have eased the pain of this rebuild. I'm somewhere between you and Joernone's age, thought Joe may be a few years my senior, maybe not. Anyway the help has been invaluable for me.
Hey Gabe, thats what these cars are for, cruising and having fun. Todays gas is making it hard for people to drive long distances these days. Thanks for the kind words. Good luck.
Thanks for posting the brake videos I am doing the brakes on my 65 as this came out. I am going to try using a dual master cylinder from a 68 bird. I know I will need to fabricate a new shock tower to firewall support . I will complete the rear lines tonight.
Take a look at this, someone emailed this to me. I think it is a good option to convert your car. www.jamcosuspension.com/product/1965-1966-ford-thunderbird-power-brake-conversion-kit-pbb6566tb
Great video. I was tinkering with my 65 yesterday. My master is a little different. When looking down over it...its fwd hole is 2x to 3x larger diameter than the aft one.
Thank you Nick. an excellent demonstration on how to adjust the master cylinder rod...but should you be out working on this, so soon after getting your nails done! 😋
Hey Alvin, what Im doing is nothing compared to what your doing. However, I spent a week trying to work out all the problems with this brake system, mostly redoing what a prior yahoo mechanic did. Some peoples kids!!
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 when it some to my project, I'll be doing pretty much everything that you have covered in your videos...and believe me, your videos are, and will be a go-to at each stage of the reassembly! 😎
Is it possible to remove the booster from the engine compartment without taking the bracket out from the inside? Seems like you could just unbolt the four bolts and disconnect the dog leg from the inside?
Hey James, you can remove the booster from the outside without ever going inside but its difficult because of very little access. With my sausage fingers, I have to do it from under the dash and even then, its difficult.
Hey Nick, I just bought a new master cylinder, and rebuilt my proportioning valve... it had less rust than the Titanic but more than the Bismark.... so I hope it will not leak....But that was a few weeks ago and I have forgotten the routing of the break lines!! the original proportioning valve has to ports, one labeld R and the other M what lines go to them? Sorry and God bless. GREAT video by the way I was able to adjust the push rod length perfect!
Hey Mike, the M should stand for master cylinder, and the R should stand for rear, or rear brakes. The master cylinder line port is (according to the 1966 shop manual page 2-16) closest to the large adjustment nut and the rear line port is closest to the back side of the pro valve. Good luck and thank you.
Hey, there are a few ways. Once on the car with fluid in it, you can have someone push the brake pedal and hold it down, then you open one of the brake lines slightly so air and fluid can come out. The pedal will go to the floor and while the person holding the brake pedal down continues to hold the pedal down, you tighten the brake line and only then can the person holding the brake pedal let go. You repeat this a few times per brake line at the master cylinder. This purges the air out of the master cylinder. You can also, with the master on the car with fluid in it, you can tickle the pedal up and down. This means push it down GENTLY until you see bubbles come up in the master cylinder. Push the pedal down only as far as you need to get bubbles. Once the bubbles stop, release the pedal and continue this until the bubbles stop completely. This usually takes 20 to 40 pushes of the pedal roughly. Good luck.
Hello Nick. Thanks for showing the procedure that you use. I like the way you mounted the proportioning valve. I noticed a couple of other things. The car has the vents on the dash for an A/C vehicle, but no compressor? The brake lines to and from the proportioning valve look real nice. You did a great job on those. And lastly, was it a full moon when you filmed this? LOL George B. in Michigan
Hey George, the car does have AC but I removed the compressor. The system does not work and it was in the way while I attempt to get this thing running again. I filmed this on Jan 17. I feel better now, back to my old self.
HaHa. I saw that too! I thought maybe I wasn't seeing it right at 1st so I went back and I'm like what?!? He's a Yeti! Anyway I'm having a brake issue with my 64 TBird also. Kinda like NO brakes! I spent all day swapping out a fuel pump and what a booger! Got it done though and car is running now. While I was under it though I decided to change the oil and filter so that's fresh. So I go to drive it around my yard I noted that I had absolutely NO brakes and barely any stopping power even with the emergency brake. IDK whats wrong. The brake pedal doesn't move at all. No play whatsoever. It's almost as if it's bottomed out or jammed. Again, IDK. The reservoir is full and I don't see any leaks at the wheels. Just got this car a couple of weeks back and it's been 20 years or so since I worked on this kind of stuff. Guess I'll be getting back into it. Figured I would start by putting her off the ground on all 4 wheels. And then bleeding the lines. I've never had to deal with a Master Cylinder or Booster so I'm kinda in the dark.
@@Mr51Caveman Hey Mr51caveman, just saw your post today 1-9-23, very sorry. Ive never seen a brake pedal locked. If I did, Id go to the booster or master. First, Id remove the master and then push the pedal and see if it moves. If not, you know it is the booster. You could also look under the dash to make sure nothing is blocking it. Good luck and so sorry for the late response.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 No worries. I watched many hours of your videos and they led me to what I needed to know. Started with taking off the Master cylinder and I saw a bunch of fluid where it mated to the Booster. Looked in the front of the Booster and it was basically flooded with brake fluid. So per one of your videos I bought the replica booster which worked perfectly, and the Master. Have brakes now!!! I still have to pull all the brake drums yet though to see if they how worn they may be. But your videos have been a HUGE help! Thanks for what you do.
I'll bet I have the exact same master cylinder in my 1965 Ford Custom (Galaxie) - no brake booster. I replaced the crusty old master cylinder with a new one and bled the brakes - twice (vacuum bleeding). The old brake fluid started out very dark and after the second bleed it was almost as light as new brake fluid. BUT, I lost brake pedal. I don't know what happened. I went and bought one of those syringe bleeders where you suck out the brake fluid from the exit port - push the plunger up to expel the air - and then push the fluid backwards through the exit port into the bowl. Well, I can't push the fluid backwards into the bowl. I tried it on the old master cylinder and it worked okay but not on the new unit. The air should come out of the hole closest to the exit port. I even tried 100 psi air pressure and couldn't blow it back through the exit port into the bowl. Any ideas what could be wrong? I took a screwdriver and it pushed against something that was spring-loaded okay. It was stiffer than on the old master cylinder but it still moved. But I can't get air pressure or the syringe loaded with fluid to move the internals. Am I going to have to get under the dash and disconnect the new master cylinder and take it out for examination? Or, do you have some magical fix that you can pass along to me?
Ive never used the syringe type bleeder ever so I do not know anything about them or why it would not work on your master. I use a pressure bleeder and pressurize the system from the master. You can foot pedal bleed it, have someone push the brake pedal and bleed it that way. I really dont have any other suggestions for you, its a problem Ive never heard of before. Sorry. Good luck.
Nick, Never seen it done that way before. How interesting. Would it be as easy with a double reservoir MC? Btw...get some skin lotion and a manicure! Regards, John
Hey John, the double reservoir doesnt work, you need to make too many mods to make it fit, in my opinion anyway. The shop manual probably explains a way to adjust the brake booster rod but I never did look for it. I've been doing it this way all these years, seems to work out fine. Hey, I have a condition, what can I say.
Some people convert these to the newer double reservoir master cylinder found on 1967 and newer vehicles. That procedure also requires the installation of a newer type metering and proportioning valve on 1965 and 66 vehicles, The 1964 still used drum brakes. Kits are available to convert 1964 and prior Thunderbirds to disc brakes, but one has to watch what they get as at least one of the kits uses Chevrolet S-10 calipers, those vehicles were nearly 1000 pounds lighter than a 1958-64 Thunderbird, and they arent well engineered and designed, one of them I worked with actually positioned the outer edge of the brake pad beyond the edge of the rotor. The supplied mounting bracket needs to be modified for correct pad and rotor positioning. Wheel bearing sizes also differ depending on year.
@@donreinke5863 Hey Don, well said. I've yet to see a 64 or earlier where the disc brake conversion works as well as a 65-66 stock setup. I always felt that the drum brakes on the 61-64's were very adequate and worked well when fixed properly. I never had an issue with them and would not spend the large amount of money and time to convert only to get the same or less performance. Not worth it. Thanks.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 I totally agree..Find the correct origninal spindles, calipers rotors and hardware from a 65-66 for this conversion. Its not easy to find, but it does show up. Disc brakes work better in wet conditions, but who drives these vehicles in those conditions anymore? That low grade S-10 conversion kit isnt that cheap either...It uses some weird vacuum booster and a 70s Corvette master cylinder.
@@donreinke5863 @Vintage Thunderbird Repair What about discs for the rear? I have the 65 so have the fronts but I have everything off of it. Does it make sense to convert or not? Most of the reason I chose the 65 was that it had the discs. Huge difference in my opinion.
The way I understand it, if the piston is pushed in too far then it will tear and leak. If it is on the car, it cannot be pushed in too far so no worries.
Good video, very informative. I don't know why anyone ever fits a new single master though unless they have a death wish. Folks, if you're replacing the master, fit a dual. Nick you should be encouraging this and showing how it's done.
Hey tbirdsteve, there is nothing available to adapt that doesn't require modification of the shock tower cross brace since an aftermarket dual master cylinder doesn't fit in the space where the single master cylinder went. Do you know of a dual master cylinder readily available that will fit without having to modify the cross brace? I admit that the dual master setup is superior but I will never encourage anyone to modify their car like that. I have a video where I install an aftermarket brake booster and dual master cylinder onto a 1962 Thunderbird but it fit nicely and I didn't have to modify the car in any way. The single master is okay, I've never heard of anyone crashing because of a brake leak even though I'm sure it has happened. The brake systems in these cars are pretty stout. I'm comfortable with a single on my car. Thanks.
Hello Nick; bought a 66 Landau in 2017 been working on it since then, Johnny Cash's song "IVE Been Everywhere, Man, kind of sums up where I been in this car, changing the lyrics of places for parts and repairs! Yours and joernone videos have been an immense help, your video on the springs for the carburetor an other insights have eased the pain of this rebuild. I'm somewhere between you and Joernone's age, thought Joe may be a few years my senior, maybe not. Anyway the help has been invaluable for me.
Hey Gabe, thats what these cars are for, cruising and having fun. Todays gas is making it hard for people to drive long distances these days. Thanks for the kind words. Good luck.
Thanks for posting the brake videos I am doing the brakes on my 65 as this came out. I am going to try using a dual master cylinder from a 68 bird. I know I will need to fabricate a new shock tower to firewall support . I will complete the rear lines tonight.
Take a look at this, someone emailed this to me. I think it is a good option to convert your car. www.jamcosuspension.com/product/1965-1966-ford-thunderbird-power-brake-conversion-kit-pbb6566tb
Great video. I was tinkering with my 65 yesterday. My master is a little different. When looking down over it...its fwd hole is 2x to 3x larger diameter than the aft one.
Yes, I remember seeing that I think. I guess it doesnt matter if the master works on the car.
Thank you Nick. an excellent demonstration on how to adjust the master cylinder rod...but should you be out working on this, so soon after getting your nails done! 😋
Hey Alvin, what Im doing is nothing compared to what your doing. However, I spent a week trying to work out all the problems with this brake system, mostly redoing what a prior yahoo mechanic did. Some peoples kids!!
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 when it some to my project, I'll be doing pretty much everything that you have covered in your videos...and believe me, your videos are, and will be a go-to at each stage of the reassembly! 😎
@@J_R_Shop Thanks Alvin.
1:17 LOL!
It was a full moon, what can I say.
Is it possible to remove the booster from the engine compartment without taking the bracket out from the inside? Seems like you could just unbolt the four bolts and disconnect the dog leg from the inside?
Hey James, you can remove the booster from the outside without ever going inside but its difficult because of very little access. With my sausage fingers, I have to do it from under the dash and even then, its difficult.
Hey Nick, I just bought a new master cylinder, and rebuilt my proportioning valve... it had less rust than the Titanic but more than the Bismark.... so I hope it will not leak....But that was a few weeks ago and I have forgotten the routing of the break lines!! the original proportioning valve has to ports, one labeld R and the other M what lines go to them? Sorry and God bless. GREAT video by the way I was able to adjust the push rod length perfect!
Hey Mike, the M should stand for master cylinder, and the R should stand for rear, or rear brakes. The master cylinder line port is (according to the 1966 shop manual page 2-16) closest to the large adjustment nut and the rear line port is closest to the back side of the pro valve. Good luck and thank you.
Hey bro how do you bleed the master cylinder
Hey, there are a few ways. Once on the car with fluid in it, you can have someone push the brake pedal and hold it down, then you open one of the brake lines slightly so air and fluid can come out. The pedal will go to the floor and while the person holding the brake pedal down continues to hold the pedal down, you tighten the brake line and only then can the person holding the brake pedal let go. You repeat this a few times per brake line at the master cylinder. This purges the air out of the master cylinder. You can also, with the master on the car with fluid in it, you can tickle the pedal up and down. This means push it down GENTLY until you see bubbles come up in the master cylinder. Push the pedal down only as far as you need to get bubbles. Once the bubbles stop, release the pedal and continue this until the bubbles stop completely. This usually takes 20 to 40 pushes of the pedal roughly. Good luck.
Were did u get the brake booster
I use power brake booster exchange, Inc. in Oregon. 503-238-8882
Hello Nick. Thanks for showing the procedure that you use. I like the way you mounted the proportioning valve. I noticed a couple of other things. The car has the vents on the dash for an A/C vehicle, but no compressor? The brake lines to and from the proportioning valve look real nice. You did a great job on those. And lastly, was it a full moon when you filmed this? LOL
George B. in Michigan
Hey George, the car does have AC but I removed the compressor. The system does not work and it was in the way while I attempt to get this thing running again. I filmed this on Jan 17. I feel better now, back to my old self.
HaHa. I saw that too! I thought maybe I wasn't seeing it right at 1st so I went back and I'm like what?!? He's a Yeti! Anyway I'm having a brake issue with my 64 TBird also. Kinda like NO brakes! I spent all day swapping out a fuel pump and what a booger! Got it done though and car is running now. While I was under it though I decided to change the oil and filter so that's fresh. So I go to drive it around my yard I noted that I had absolutely NO brakes and barely any stopping power even with the emergency brake. IDK whats wrong. The brake pedal doesn't move at all. No play whatsoever. It's almost as if it's bottomed out or jammed. Again, IDK. The reservoir is full and I don't see any leaks at the wheels. Just got this car a couple of weeks back and it's been 20 years or so since I worked on this kind of stuff. Guess I'll be getting back into it. Figured I would start by putting her off the ground on all 4 wheels. And then bleeding the lines. I've never had to deal with a Master Cylinder or Booster so I'm kinda in the dark.
@@Mr51Caveman Hey Mr51caveman, just saw your post today 1-9-23, very sorry. Ive never seen a brake pedal locked. If I did, Id go to the booster or master. First, Id remove the master and then push the pedal and see if it moves. If not, you know it is the booster. You could also look under the dash to make sure nothing is blocking it. Good luck and so sorry for the late response.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 No worries. I watched many hours of your videos and they led me to what I needed to know. Started with taking off the Master cylinder and I saw a bunch of fluid where it mated to the Booster. Looked in the front of the Booster and it was basically flooded with brake fluid. So per one of your videos I bought the replica booster which worked perfectly, and the Master. Have brakes now!!! I still have to pull all the brake drums yet though to see if they how worn they may be. But your videos have been a HUGE help! Thanks for what you do.
@@Mr51Caveman Hey, glad to be of service. Thanks.
I'll bet I have the exact same master cylinder in my 1965 Ford Custom (Galaxie) - no brake booster. I replaced the crusty old master cylinder with a new one and bled the brakes - twice (vacuum bleeding). The old brake fluid started out very dark and after the second bleed it was almost as light as new brake fluid. BUT, I lost brake pedal. I don't know what happened. I went and bought one of those syringe bleeders where you suck out the brake fluid from the exit port - push the plunger up to expel the air - and then push the fluid backwards through the exit port into the bowl. Well, I can't push the fluid backwards into the bowl. I tried it on the old master cylinder and it worked okay but not on the new unit. The air should come out of the hole closest to the exit port. I even tried 100 psi air pressure and couldn't blow it back through the exit port into the bowl. Any ideas what could be wrong? I took a screwdriver and it pushed against something that was spring-loaded okay. It was stiffer than on the old master cylinder but it still moved. But I can't get air pressure or the syringe loaded with fluid to move the internals. Am I going to have to get under the dash and disconnect the new master cylinder and take it out for examination? Or, do you have some magical fix that you can pass along to me?
Ive never used the syringe type bleeder ever so I do not know anything about them or why it would not work on your master. I use a pressure bleeder and pressurize the system from the master. You can foot pedal bleed it, have someone push the brake pedal and bleed it that way. I really dont have any other suggestions for you, its a problem Ive never heard of before. Sorry. Good luck.
That was a creepy hand there..
Yeah, my wife said, "Put some cream on that will ya?!"
Nick,
Never seen it done that way before. How interesting. Would it be as easy with a double reservoir MC?
Btw...get some skin lotion and a manicure!
Regards,
John
Hey John, the double reservoir doesnt work, you need to make too many mods to make it fit, in my opinion anyway. The shop manual probably explains a way to adjust the brake booster rod but I never did look for it. I've been doing it this way all these years, seems to work out fine. Hey, I have a condition, what can I say.
Some people convert these to the newer double reservoir master cylinder found on 1967 and newer vehicles. That procedure also requires the installation of a newer type metering and proportioning valve on 1965 and 66 vehicles, The 1964 still used drum brakes.
Kits are available to convert 1964 and prior Thunderbirds to disc brakes, but one has to watch what they get as at least one of the kits uses Chevrolet S-10 calipers, those vehicles were nearly 1000 pounds lighter than a 1958-64 Thunderbird, and they arent well engineered and designed, one of them I worked with actually positioned the outer edge of the brake pad beyond the edge of the rotor. The supplied mounting bracket needs to be modified for correct pad and rotor positioning.
Wheel bearing sizes also differ depending on year.
@@donreinke5863 Hey Don, well said. I've yet to see a 64 or earlier where the disc brake conversion works as well as a 65-66 stock setup. I always felt that the drum brakes on the 61-64's were very adequate and worked well when fixed properly. I never had an issue with them and would not spend the large amount of money and time to convert only to get the same or less performance. Not worth it. Thanks.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 I totally agree..Find the correct origninal spindles, calipers rotors and hardware from a 65-66 for this conversion. Its not easy to find, but it does show up.
Disc brakes work better in wet conditions, but who drives these vehicles in those conditions anymore?
That low grade S-10 conversion kit isnt that cheap either...It uses some weird vacuum booster and a 70s Corvette master cylinder.
@@donreinke5863 @Vintage Thunderbird Repair What about discs for the rear? I have the 65 so have the fronts but I have everything off of it. Does it make sense to convert or not? Most of the reason I chose the 65 was that it had the discs. Huge difference in my opinion.
Can you explain why you shouldn't bench bleed these master cylinders?
I love this video, and I believe you, but I'd like to know why.
The way I understand it, if the piston is pushed in too far then it will tear and leak. If it is on the car, it cannot be pushed in too far so no worries.
Nick, Your nails are look a little long and hair arm.. lol
Thanks for the video
My wife keeps bugging me, "When are you going to trim your finger nails!!!"