68% Smaller PCB Coil - Is it Better?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ค. 2020
- How small can my Flexible PCB Actuator get? This is the question I tried answering in this video! I first discuss how we can get it smaller and the compromises involved. Then I measured the specifications of each prototype and tested the actuators in different applications. Thank you PCBWay for sponsoring my flexible PCBs: www.pcbway.com
PCB Design Software that I use: carlbugeja.com/altium
Free Version of Altium's Pro Version: www.altium.com/circuitmaker
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Everything You Wanted - TH-cam Audio Library - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![[FULL EP.69] #เอิร์นจิรวรรณ เปิดบ้านหมื่นล้านทุกมุม ครั้งแรก! l เคหสถานบานปลาย l One Playground](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_J4_nw8c64o/mqdefault.jpg)
would be cool if you can make a XY mirror laser steering device to draw some vectors on a wall like mini galvos
hey if you pull this off with eough accuracy you might be able to do what the peachy printer never could
@@capt_fruit Correct, because Carl is very skillful and i'm sure he can do it. its what we want, he can sell it to the people, all hail carl, out DIY savior.
That was my idea :(
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Years ago i bought 10 panel meters from radio shack and ripped out the assemblies to use as galvos for a tube laser from an old Laserdisc player. First thing I got it to display was the Rush logo.
$300+ dollars... and sponsored by PCBway. Nice.
I wonder why they are that expensive and who would even use them at that price point?
@@DerH0ns yeah I was wondering the same thing
@@DerH0ns One of the problems is the set up cost to get the PCB design from your gerber files into a manufacturable design. It's way more complex than for a rigid PCB. And all the processes are more difficult to do with a "flappy" board that needs some stiffeners or frames to actually be able to handle the PCBs and move them thru all the chemical and mechanical processes. A rigid PCB can basically move thru most steps automatically and is handled by machines/robots, since the production is generally running at a much higher volume. And there are other scaling factors in place. For example when they drill and route rigid PCBs, they usually stack several identical production panels and drill the entire stack at the same time to save time and money. I don't think they can do that with the flex panels. And on top of that, the raw material (polyimide film) is more expensive and for small orders i would guess they have to hand-place the stiffeners that get glued on.
Once you go into large scale production (1000nds of PCBs) it starts to change and flex-rigid PCBs can actually get pretty competitive if you can eliminate expensive connectors and interface parts and have easyer end product assembly or other advantages in your product that benefit from the flex PCBs...
Anxious to see the applications of said flexible PCB actuators...and a tour of the completed work shop! I hope you two are enjoying the new place.
Not words to say. Superb content as always 😇
3:25 THAT RULER! I WANT IT🤤
You can get it mostly on fairs and sometimes if you order high amounts at big suppliers. I have the same one from RS components.
Carl when you reach 100k do some ruler giveaways
You can order them for like $2 on AliExpress incl shipping. Just search for "pcb ruler"
Even cheaper, i got mine for around 1.30$ on sale, on aliexpress.
Yes, but that are mostly cheap ones.
Subbed if just to see what you do with all in pcb components, keep sponsoring PCB Way!
Lovely research. Keep rolling
Very good presentation and great ideas on how to measure stuff
Dude, you are a real scientific. A real passionate scientific
Carl: uploads new video
My brain: :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I don't know why, but I had the same reaction. I even forgot that I was subscribed to him.
Could you glue the 6 layer actuator head onto a 2 layer arm and solder / join the contacts for more flex with the smaller footprint?
I had this idea but then I found a guy that made them so now I'm a fan
Nice video Carl. I haven't had time to email you yet. Cool look'n PCBS . I recently made an order on JLC PCB so impressed with the service. I'm making a 200amp 150v VESC controller for e vehicles. Wonder how I could utilize flexy pcbs for myself.
If you attach a magnet, you get an isodynamic driver, that is, a flat speaker
Comparison and analysis 👌👌👌😍
I will always love this guy
I enjoyed this. How does this compare to the size and strength of a hard drive write head?
I love this experimentation and scientific approach. I still think that you should generally consider resistance as your enemy and not a parameter that makes the coils suitable for a specific voltage though. I see for instance that the copper leads through the stem is as thin as in the coil which is unneccessary. The extra .04 mm you got "for free" with their decreased track spacing could have been used for increasing track width, leading to lower resistance etc.
If, given your size constraints, you optimize for _maximum inductance_ and _minimum resistance_ you can then in the next design stage make a buck driver with the correct voltage to yield the current that gives the allowed temperature rise. It will be a much, much more powerful actuator. You probably can use the actuator itself as the energy storage for the buck converter, which means that it will be extremely low component count and efficient.
Thanks for the comment 🙂 the max-ind/min-res thing really depends on the application - driving it at static voltage / low frequency will get the coil hot. I think with for my applications there needs to a balance.
In this video I was also going to dicuss the inductance of each coil but decided to leave the test out as I wasn't sure how accurate the results were (I calculated by the current slope). For the 2 layer pcb i measured around 42uH while for the 6-layer it was around 14uH but I think there was a tolerance of around +-4uH
(i still think observing a sweep would elicit frequencies resonant to the physicality, and that this is tremendously important to the physical amplitude of oscillation.. no equations necessary, just do a slow frequency sweep with a 555 astable if your function generator doesn't fine tune, i promise you your physical arrangement will show marked responsivity to frequency!)
What did we learn from these test? Carl Bugeja is a mad genius! At least that was my take away. And did you ever get your resin questions sorted?
You can also increase the width of the conductor therefore reduce the resistance and increase the current creating stronger fields.
*@Carl Bugeja*
Ask PCB Way if they can make an actuator with a 6 layer "head" and a 1 or 2 layer "neck, for maximum "flappyness".
I assume a thinner (sideways) neck gives more "flapping" but it also gets less "guidance" and might flap diagonally?
Maybe they can like use a 1 full layer pcb "flapper" as a base & then "staple on" (somehow) a 6 layer head on top of it?
nice job! , can't wait for pcb implementation.
It really depends on what exactly you want to do with the coils.
Specially for the small 6layer coil i found it strange that you went with thinner traces - i would have done the exact opposite - wider traces. Of course that leads to fewer turns, less resistance and a lower field strength for the same current. but the reduced resistance also means less heat for a given current. That is as long as the magnetic field is still strong enough for your particular needs there.
You can increase the Flapping on the 6 layer PCB if you use only 2 layer flex PCB on the flexing area and 6 layer where the coil has, and simple solder it together...
What is the proper metric used for flappiness? :)
Not sure, would it be measured with a flapometer or a flopometre ?
Love the bend test! That has been on my mind for some flex LED cubes I have coming soon.
i like ur videos flexible PCB i love these ideas and i learn more and i have a doubt see now a days we are seeing wireless charge things so can we use these PCB since it has the coiling layers.
A nice video Bro. I like it.
Wonder if you could mill/cut down the part of the PCB that is supposed to flex in the multilayer-PCBs to give it back the "flappyness" of the low layer count PCBs. In the end, you just have the two conductors going to the coil that are running thru there, so you would not need all the polyimide and copper layers there, you just need them at the coil end.
Or get rid of that "connecting part" in the flex design, use some very bendy plastic sheet for mechanical connection to the coil, and glue that in place. Wire up the coil with very thin copper wire (enameled wire used in transformer winding comes to mind), and have the benefit of a smaller, thus cheaper, multilayer coil without the problem of stiffness in the connecting arm... Now that i think about it, if you make a rig that allows you to wind single layer flat coils out of enameled wire, you don't need the expensive flex-PCB process at all anymore. 🤔
Just disassemble one of those old CDRom drives and look how the lens for the laser is positioned ;-)
Have you considered designing the coils to mate to an FPC connector rather than just soldering? You can get flat flex connectors that are really _quite_ small for quite cheap that allow you to easily connect and disconnect a flat-flex board, and this would probably make the whole process of testing these coils a lot simpler. E.g. this 4-pin 0.5mm pitch FPC connector (www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/molex/5051100492/WM12360CT-ND/5726209) can take up to 0.5 A per pin, and even in one-off quantity it's only $0.61 each.
Also, it's possible to get flex PCBs made with a different number of layers in different regions - i.e. you can have 6 layers with 5 dielectric sheets in the coil area, but only have one of those dielectric sheets extend out with a trace on each side in the flexible lead area, if you need that area to be more flexible than the coil area.
This is more commonly done in order to laminate a flexible layer against multiple rigid layers in order to essentially fold a circuit board in half, but this might also be a good application for that technique.
very cool, I like the idea when you turned it into a speak, and also when you used your phone compass, very smart
Very useful comparison! Not sure where else I'd go to find this kinda info.
awesome! can you share the designs please?
What is the minimum amount of turns you can have to create an electromagnet?
Have you tried attaching some mirror finish mylar film to one of your actuators and then reflect a laser off that? If it works then two of them plus a laser diode and an MCU may give you a very cheap and compact low-resolution laser projection display. Perhaps good enough for a red clock and other information display on a ceiling at night.
Haven't done it yet but it is in the project bucket list
Flappy is such a cool word, people should use it more...:)
Nyc video bro
Like most of your videos I don't understand what's going on, but I'm still fascinated, and keep watching.
AMAZING BRO,WORLD NEEDS YOUR TALENT!!!
Neat! Good to see that you have another dial to fiddle with. Are you still gunning for maximising the coil inductance? Because here’s evidently some compromise to be made with drive voltage and such. I guess it’s akin to tuning the Kv of an electric motor. I look forward to how your coming projects will benefit from this experimentation!
Where can I order this small model???
Could you make a flex PCB bivalve pump?
I love your content and you're gonna have a million subscribers one day.
Let's aim for 100k for now 😁🙏
Have you tested using an iron core with your coils in any of your videos? I realize it would just stick to the magnet, but perhaps when powered it would be a lot stronger magnetic field? This project is really interesting.
I have a video in the making on that topic 😉
@@CarlBugeja I look forward to it!
carl: flexible PBCs
me: i want that
also me : i will make that
responsibilities : fe*k you ! study
me : cry and watch carl
me : happy now
love your work !
That is the story of each one of us
true..........
And some people just look at the >300$ price tag for the flex PCB order and just stop thinking about it until PCBWay sends some sponsorship deal...
I wonder if one day he'd use this technology for air travel
specifically in planes...
FlexAir
Лайк не глядя!
Как ты сюда забрёл)0)
Can't you make just 6 layers for coil(just circles) and 2 layers(or even 1) on the arm for less stiffness(more flexible movement). I know some pcb producers have an option for that(I did not check if PCBWay have or not).
By the way, Great Job!
Additional you could make the coil part out of rigid PCB. That would save money and you can get much more Layers. The catch would be more weight. But rigid PCBs (FR4) can also be very thin.
I bet you could build a air conditioner with this technology and it would power itself. If you flex a piece in a sealed area it would pump a gas or a liquid easily with a check valve on the output.
carl is one of my fav youtubers
You know it's a paid comment when it looks like this.
Very nice!
You could retain some flexibility in the many layered ones by just layering separate dual layer devices, still the same thickness but separate layers have lower rigidity if they are not adhered on the tail.
3:47 use phyphox instead. It shows you a graph of the magnetic field.
Just downloaded it! thanks for the tip ;)
@@CarlBugeja i think you're rightfully excited about these membranes, but i would suggest stepping back and developing other interests to synergise the concepts. i immediately see applications in musical instruments, RC model flight (elevons, multi wing eg. dragonfly or unconventional) and water, but these are obvious to me. thank you for the inspiration, as it should be! i hope this work finds some more appropriate applications.
@@CarlBugeja have a look at codewarrior's video on making parametric ultrasound beam
th-cam.com/video/aBdVfUnS-pM/w-d-xo.html
the advantage of the membrane here is surface area, which is critical to beam propogation for ultrasound. if you can drive a membrane at 25kHz (or higher!) i'd think using an array of coils on one sheet, use codewarrior's 555 astable circuit and print one out as big as you can provide magnets for...
As an engineer and scientist I recommend you to use axis labels on your diagrams. Without it is hard to understand and also not very academic.
I like your stuff and that you not just build something but do some research on this.
Maybe you could also try to design a mathematic model on your research to program some pcb routing generator.
yea
Hi Carl, wanted to ask about IP. Did you consider protecting intellectual property? I'm actually more curious if you chose to be open source. For example, it seems you have chosen to make your work open, and instead of spending money for a patent, you are actually earning money and publicity from your content.
If your curious about the magnetic field strength you could have a go at simulating it using FEMM. It's free and open source and there are plenty of examples so there may be one that is already similar to what you are making www.femm.info/wiki/HomePage
WOOO first!
Man I had high hopes for the smallest PCB but that stiffness crushed them
waiting for your AR project :)
At this rate, pcbway will go bankrupt
Make a pcb with coils to control ferrofluid.
Already did 😉th-cam.com/video/18ib3ojORBw/w-d-xo.html
Yes I am 2 layer old
even smaller flexlcd display?
or even more resolution on the original flex led?
Where are you from ,
Malta 🇲🇹
Am I the only one, thinking about applications like micro valves or direct actuators for things like the tesla suit?
Make some speakers
New type of measuring instrument: Flapmeter
I prefer Flapometer 🤔😋
Why would anybody want a FlexAR if FlexAir is out there already?
A bit of origami will expend your horizon!?
It would 😁
One day your Flexible PCBs and other inventions changed the world🤓👍🏻💡📡🔬🖱
Instead of using magnetic field of the PCB coils, try to make voice coil micro actuators, based on Lorentz force.
So the coil acted as a speaker....
what?
Interesting.
As for motors, have you tried this kind of coil made on a pcb? build-its-inprogress.blogspot.com/2015/02/coreless-axial-flux-motors.html?m=1
Almost nice
Why 300 dollars for 5 pieces
Um... what?
You certainly did a professional job designing, testing, and documenting them, but...
What's the flapping point?
First comment. I'm fast.
No)
halve the speachtempo and i can follow
why couldn't you make it 1 more % smaller so it would be 69%
28 mins ago
Bro can u please donateyour used pcbs to me?
There will be a giveaway next Friday on my Patreon 🙂 (pcb will be new)
@@CarlBugeja thats really grt. 🙂. Evn if m nt getting new ill be fine with used one. Many ideas are flooding.....just lack of affordability....
Stop *FLEXING*
That's a lot of paid likes/comments.