Yo fencekid....where are you and what are you doing? I hope you are well. I am a coin ring maker from germany. I remember when i start making coin rings i whatched some of your videos which impressed me. The coin ring community is still talking about your first videos like a legend. I don't now what you are doing today but i really hope you are well and send you best wishes from düsseldorf germany. Peace ✌️
I've been making rings using your method for some time now. Thanks for the videos, they are great! The problem I have always had and can't seem to overcome is the slight bell-shape of the end product. The edge of the quarter that has the ridges always appears wider than the other side. Viewing the profile of the ring from the side, it has a slight concave shape. Never a convex shape like the ring in this video. Keep up the awesome videos!
I just finished making this same ring out of the Newfoundland coin thanks to your advice & I absolutely nailed it! You weren't trippin Fencekid. This is an awesome ring. I cant believe how nice it turned out. I used a doming block to curve the edges too. Thanks for the video & for your other video about the liver of sulfur. I used that method on this ring also, polished the high points & edges & I absolutely love it. Keep the vids coming whenever you can. God bless Kid!
the last thing I tried was Protectaclear. It's like a clear resin that is baked onto the ring. This stuff doesn't flake off. You more or less wear your way through it until it's gone. Now yer back to square one rubbing off the patina. But it did last longer than any other thing I've tried.
I'd agree bro, I've been using protectaclear for a long time now and never had anyone return their ring to be refinished. I also like (depending on the type of coin I'm working) Renaissance jewelry wax.
Thanks for the tip, seen someone trying to push using a lighter and clear polish. Lol I literally just ordered from your link. Yours is legit. Thanks again.
I always thought I needed so many supplies and it was so complicated...these vids make the process so easy to understand! Thanks for posting the vids man, you are awesome! I'm going to start buying supplies asap.
i usually stick to the few hobbies i have. skateing playing guitar..but seeing as how my garage has whats needed and for some reason this looks seriously interesting from my end...im going to get into this. thanks for the vids
It's definitely beautiful in its own right. Could you suggest alternate catalysts to get different toning, such as rainbow toning? As a numismatist, it's common to encounter artificially toned coins - which is something that collectors must be wary of, as it is bad for the coin's value, so we always look for natural toning. So that being said, for the deliberate creation of toning for rings, I would love to know what chemicals can be used (safely) to create various effects on various metal compositions. I think this is something I will look into. Great video, man, thanks!
Great vids Brutha, easy to follow and not a bunch of blathering. Something to think about, I like to use what has been punched out of the coin to make a petite medallion. Especially with the silver, gold and specialty or foreign ones. Just some food for thought, or more like a snack to nibble on.
that is awesome. I lightly coat mine with color fast for fishing lours and lightly flame till black. when polished the black turns to shiney plastic and high ridges sand off.
thanks for your videos.. i love them... just got all of my tools for everything, and i'm having a ton of trouble taking off all of the jeweler's scale... or whatever it is... i've been leaving it on for that two tone antique look, but i rather use something that causes it to patina and not look like this... i've been using clothe wheels on a dremil and mother's polish... is there a better way to get rid of it...? thanks in advance...
Fricking wicked a newfie coin I would have never guess, i am fully stoked I found your channel cuz dude to buy a coin ring thats all done is far more than 25 cents lol. Hmmm is it sad that I fully understand the tools and grit etc far better then anything makeup tools on my channel….ahhh growing up industrial supply life lol.
So I have a question. I did great on the quarter. But when I tried to make this one, it ended up lopsided........and eventually broke. Do I need to use a larger size PVC pipe since this is a larger coin?
Very nice! Have u ever tried to just dip it in the liver of sulfur bath for a couple seconds then quenching it and dipping it again, and so on and so forth till you get the desired effect? I find the patina lasts much longer than if applied all at once. And plating w black rhodium can get a pretty similar effect but much more permanent! I love your choice of coins.!!!!!!
Great video! When you put on the polish, did you polish it with a dremel drill, or what did you use? I'm thinking a Dremel might take off the patinaon the "recessed" part of the ring. Thanks.
Presumably the fact that the sandpaper takes off the blackening pretty easily, how does the ring last with wear and tear? Is the black likely to scratch away easily with use?
Jason Cox This ring was back to silver in about 2 months of wearing it every day 24 7. I don't know of anything that permanently protects the patina. I know of a few that protect it for a while, but it eventually wears off.
fencekid I guess you could use something like acrylic clear coat and then some kind of hard wax, but presumably that would take away some of the silver shine as well.
a great addition to your sanding supplies would be a manicure pad/block. The ones I get have 4 sides, with 1 being the "roughest" and 4 being a super-fine buffing material. I use a sanding pad/block as well, but then when I'm ready to "finish" a ring, i 1-2 the edges for 30-40 seconds, then 2-3 for 30-40 seconds, and then finally 3-4 (use the corners between sides...) and get a super smooth, "comfort band" feel out of the edges. The ones I get are like $5 at my local pharmacy...
I made my first ring out of a 2006 quarter. I used liver of sulfur on it and it looks great! Its turning my finger black / green though if I wear it for very long. How can I prevent this? Is it the liver of sulfur coming off or the ring turning it? I used the baking soda to stop the chemical process like you said but its still causing discoloration.
philais I can't believe You mentioned that one too, cuz I'm fixen to make a vid on annealing also. The acid is called Sparex No. 2. It's a dry powder that you mix with water and helps prevent silver scale when heating and annealing yer coin. Simply drop yer hot coin in and whalla. When done with silver coins it makes em look almost white and frosty. Another good look at it is in this vid. Make Coin Rings With No Marring Marks - More Tips
fencekid Yep. We are using leather now. There is no metal touching metal on any steps of shaping or sizing and the detail is perfect....well, not as good as yours but alot better than in the others we have made. thanks bro.
Hey fencekid, how do you keep the contrast, most all the dark has rubbed off almost immediately. also leaving dark marks on fingers. when they lose a bit at a time it is a pretty ugly mess.
I've been watching a lot of your videos and then one of your videos you show putting heat to a woman's ring in order to hammer and back my question is will Heap damage of silver ring or a brass colored ring you know the kind that look like gold, or gold it self. once again thank you for your info.
this is amazing!! i really need so help if you wouldn't mind i want to make my dad a ring for his 50th birthday and was wondering if the size of the coin makes a difference on the size ring you can make, i also want to make myself one and i have really thin fingers. please help me!!
hey man, these look great. I notice on your other video how to make the ring from a quarter, that right was a bit concave (sunken in) around the middle, whereas this one shows a nice curve (bowing) out, around the outside center. Is there a trick to get it to bow out rather than being sunken around the middle?
Thanks for this very useful tutorial! I have what is probably a stupid question....I don't have a blow torch. Would it suffice to heat the ring in the oven for a while?
hi fencekid ive wached so miney of your coin ring videos .there all grate i just got every thing needed to start makeing my own .i have a? about this ring im going to make one and use as my wedding band . i need to know what size punch you used to . get every thing on the band . if you can get back with me soon ide be grateful. thanks and have a nice day.
Question ? After using the liver of silver on my rings how do I protect the finish ? I think I remember you saying something about using wax ? I am I correct or dreaming it ! lol If so what kind do you use ? I know eventually it may wear and need redone but still need to coat or something for the time being. Thanks for your continued help.
Very good job excusarme i dont have the sulfure liver i have the pátina for all metal how can i do to have similar result Thankyou un advanced Best regards from México Querétaro
Thank you for these vids man - I'm going to give making a ring a try! Do you do anything to "seal" the finish? I mean if I did this and gave the ring to someone and they tried to polish it up after a while would it take the patina off? Thanks again~
Wow. Nice work! You should include the rings origin in the description, I think you only mentioned it once and that was at the beginning of the video. 1900 Newfoundland 50 cent coin, going for about $20 on Ebay. That is a wicked coin to use for a ring and Saw a video on how to make coin rings the other day, but it was only one sided. Just caught your double sided video, and now this one. I would like to see a ring made from the new 2012 1000 Colombian peso if you take requests haha
I went on e-bay and bought this coin. When I dipped it,I got like a dark gray look and when I tried bring out the high lites it also takes out the background patina. I guess the coin is worn to bad. What can I seal the outside of rings with, anything? I tried jewelry sealer (Probably clear finger nail polish) and it takes the shine of the silver away and eventually turns yellowish. I also tried soaking a copper ring and it turned black but would wipe right off. You the man to ask!!
Don Cromer I use Renaissance Micro-Crystalline Wax Polish. But even that is temporary. TH-cam it. I don't know of any permanent coating. Let me know if you figure that one out, yeah?
Hi there man hope you had a grate Thanksgiving......So i got all the stuff needed to do whats on your video. But the problem im having is in the polishing phase. I keep taking off the black patina even if im gentle. On your finished product is super black. How do you do that??
fencekid, just curious at 3:31 you talk about putting the ring in a water / baking soda solution, i take it that you do this before the sanding? Just use warm water and baking soda and mix it up and just drop the ring in there for a while, then rinse off, dry, and start sanding?? Love your videos thanks for posting them.
Two questions: + how resilient is the liver of sulfur to normal wear and tear on the ring? Any thoughts? Sometimes I have a little tarnish left over from my firescale; this ultimately rubs off. I'm wondering if liver of sulfur would rub off similarly... + Does liver of sulfer work on all metals? Brass? Copper?
+Nate Conklin To be honest, not that resilient at all. this ring was back to silver in 2 weeks of hard labor. Any patina finish will rub off silver or copper rings. How long it lasts, Really depends on your lifestyle I guess.
Thanks for the heads up! Keep up the great videos! You've returned me back to a craft that I haven't made good in in quite a few years. Back in the day, we used something like this in my high-school jewelry shop, but I don't recall what it was.
+fencekid Have you found a better way to do this since this vid? I'm thinking you could seal it with clear nail polish or some sort of finishing spray but that would likely wear off as well.
Can you make a video on how to make a ring out of a quarter with a drill but leave no words on the middle? I'm having trouble with making mine and I need advice, you seem really good at this stuff!
Hey Fencekid, Love your work. I am looking to make a coin wedding ring out of an old italian 20 grana coin ≈1690. I had a couple of questions for you. Do you think the coin is suitable as long as the edges are in pretty good shape? I would add a link but it doesnt allow me. Also, do you recommend doing and acid pickle before the liver of sulpher or is it overkill to do both?
Fencekid you are the man to follow when making coin rings with low budget tools. Thanks man.
I just picked up one of these coins (an 1899) after I saw your video. It does make an awesome looking ring. Thanks for the inspiration.
Yo fencekid....where are you and what are you doing? I hope you are well. I am a coin ring maker from germany. I remember when i start making coin rings i whatched some of your videos which impressed me. The coin ring community is still talking about your first videos like a legend. I don't now what you are doing today but i really hope you are well and send you best wishes from düsseldorf germany. Peace ✌️
I've been making rings using your method for some time now. Thanks for the videos, they are great!
The problem I have always had and can't seem to overcome is the slight bell-shape of the end product. The edge of the quarter that has the ridges always appears wider than the other side. Viewing the profile of the ring from the side, it has a slight concave shape. Never a convex shape like the ring in this video.
Keep up the awesome videos!
You are the master at making rings out coins man!
I just finished making this same ring out of the Newfoundland coin thanks to your advice & I absolutely nailed it! You weren't trippin Fencekid. This is an awesome ring. I cant believe how nice it turned out. I used a doming block to curve the edges too. Thanks for the video & for your other video about the liver of sulfur. I used that method on this ring also, polished the high points & edges & I absolutely love it. Keep the vids coming whenever you can. God bless Kid!
Wow man, amazing design hammered out of that coin and beautiful finish.
I just started making coin rings, I definitely love the hobby! The ring in this video is very beautiful wow man good job!
fencekid
You're like the KipKay of coin rings; the "go to" person in this craft. Excellent work!
I used to love kip Kay years ago, but he sucks now
I introduce to you the Bob Ross of coin rings lol. Great job once again brother
that contrasted ring looks fabulous
Hey Fence Kid, you taught me a lot. I've made several rings. One thing people need to know is how to seal the Patina finish.
the last thing I tried was Protectaclear. It's like a clear resin that is baked onto the ring. This stuff doesn't flake off. You more or less wear your way through it until it's gone. Now yer back to square one rubbing off the patina. But it did last longer than any other thing I've tried.
I'd agree bro, I've been using protectaclear for a long time now and never had anyone return their ring to be refinished. I also like (depending on the type of coin I'm working) Renaissance jewelry wax.
Thanks for the tip, seen someone trying to push using a lighter and clear polish. Lol
I literally just ordered from your link. Yours is legit.
Thanks again.
I always thought I needed so many supplies and it was so complicated...these vids make the process so easy to understand! Thanks for posting the vids man, you are awesome! I'm going to start buying supplies asap.
I enjoy watching your videos man!! no popcorn needed.. you sound cool and make making coin rings look fun! I might give it a shot. keep it up!
i usually stick to the few hobbies i have. skateing playing guitar..but seeing as how my garage has whats needed and for some reason this looks seriously interesting from my end...im going to get into this. thanks for the vids
Great vid....What type of dremel attachment is that?
It's definitely beautiful in its own right. Could you suggest alternate catalysts to get different toning, such as rainbow toning? As a numismatist, it's common to encounter artificially toned coins - which is something that collectors must be wary of, as it is bad for the coin's value, so we always look for natural toning.
So that being said, for the deliberate creation of toning for rings, I would love to know what chemicals can be used (safely) to create various effects on various metal compositions.
I think this is something I will look into.
Great video, man, thanks!
Great vids Brutha, easy to follow and not a bunch of blathering. Something to think about, I like to use what has been punched out of the coin to make a petite medallion. Especially with the silver, gold and specialty or foreign ones. Just some food for thought, or more like a snack to nibble on.
Great advice brother. Love your videos. Keep em comming.
that is awesome. I lightly coat mine with color fast for fishing lours and lightly flame till black. when polished the black turns to shiney plastic and high ridges sand off.
great video, any idea how would I do the same thing with a stainless steel ring?
This is great, thanks! How did you add the polish????
thanks for your videos.. i love them... just got all of my tools for everything, and i'm having a ton of trouble taking off all of the jeweler's scale... or whatever it is... i've been leaving it on for that two tone antique look, but i rather use something that causes it to patina and not look like this... i've been using clothe wheels on a dremil and mother's polish... is there a better way to get rid of it...? thanks in advance...
Fricking wicked a newfie coin I would have never guess, i am fully stoked I found your channel cuz dude to buy a coin ring thats all done is far more than 25 cents lol. Hmmm is it sad that I fully understand the tools and grit etc far better then anything makeup tools on my channel….ahhh growing up industrial supply life lol.
Love the video brother is it ok to use 220 grid sandpaper or is that too rough ?
Good video,,,where did you get the sanding block
Mate that's great dude,you sure are tripin dude,that looks fantastic dude,here's coming at you dude
Awesome. Know the video is old but it just what I was looking for. Thank you.
So I have a question. I did great on the quarter. But when I tried to make this one, it ended up lopsided........and eventually broke. Do I need to use a larger size PVC pipe since this is a larger coin?
Very nice workmanship!
what kind of acid bath are you quenching this ring into to get the white finish?
Very nice! Have u ever tried to just dip it in the liver of sulfur bath for a couple seconds then quenching it and dipping it again, and so on and so forth till you get the desired effect? I find the patina lasts much longer than if applied all at once. And plating w black rhodium can get a pretty similar effect but much more permanent! I love your choice of coins.!!!!!!
@fencekid do you have a video on making that coin ring?
Great video! When you put on the polish, did you polish it with a dremel drill, or what did you use? I'm thinking a Dremel might take off the patinaon the "recessed" part of the ring. Thanks.
Presumably the fact that the sandpaper takes off the blackening pretty easily, how does the ring last with wear and tear? Is the black likely to scratch away easily with use?
Jason Cox This ring was back to silver in about 2 months of wearing it every day 24 7. I don't know of anything that permanently protects the patina. I know of a few that protect it for a while, but it eventually wears off.
Même avec les bagues achetés dans les commerces ont a le même soucis. Au moins avec cette méthode on peut leurs redonner un coup de neuf...
fencekid I guess you could use something like acrylic clear coat and then some kind of hard wax, but presumably that would take away some of the silver shine as well.
ي
a great addition to your sanding supplies would be a manicure pad/block. The ones I get have 4 sides, with 1 being the "roughest" and 4 being a super-fine buffing material. I use a sanding pad/block as well, but then when I'm ready to "finish" a ring, i 1-2 the edges for 30-40 seconds, then 2-3 for 30-40 seconds, and then finally 3-4 (use the corners between sides...) and get a super smooth, "comfort band" feel out of the edges. The ones I get are like $5 at my local pharmacy...
So the liver of sulfur is helping create a silver sulfide tarnish? Is this correct?
I'm thinking about doing this kind of stuff for friends. What's the list of things do I need like tools, chemicals, and materials?
Very cool, the ring is gorgeous
Enjoyable video, like your commentary. Great job on the ring!
That ring looks good, nice trick
I made my first ring out of a 2006 quarter. I used liver of sulfur on it and it looks great! Its turning my finger black / green though if I wear it for very long. How can I prevent this? Is it the liver of sulfur coming off or the ring turning it? I used the baking soda to stop the chemical process like you said but its still causing discoloration.
Would you consider making the same ring if we supplied the coin? Pls
I love this ring .. beautiful ! Now I want one !
Does it work for all kind of metals. I have a titanium ring that I'd like to look better! Thanks
Another great video Fencekid! well done!
would this wash off in the water, or chlorine from a pool?
Wow! That looks so amazing. What kind of polish do you use? And what type of head on the dremmel for it?
you mention using wax at the end...what type of wax do you use ?
another great video. and no you're not tripping lol.
it is exciting to see the ring developing character during the process.
thank you
how do you get your rings shaped like that? mine come out more cone shaped.
Funny you should ask, I'm fixen to put up a video on how to round up the edges soon. Stick with me, and I'll show ya
fencekid you mentioned an acid bath, what kind of acid do you suggest?
(philais' son~ really love your vids you're the best)
philais I can't believe You mentioned that one too, cuz I'm fixen to make a vid on annealing also. The acid is called Sparex No. 2. It's a dry powder that you mix with water and helps prevent silver scale when heating and annealing yer coin. Simply drop yer hot coin in and whalla. When done with silver coins it makes em look almost white and frosty. Another good look at it is in this vid. Make Coin Rings With No Marring Marks - More Tips
fencekid
Yep. We are using leather now. There is no metal touching metal on any steps of shaping or sizing and the detail is perfect....well, not as good as yours but alot better than in the others we have made. thanks bro.
glad it's workin for ya. not as good as mine,,,,yet. you'll get there
What kind of polish do you use for silver vs. clad?
Did you get your fume hood on Amazon?
I will be making rings this winter. Thanks man
Sweet..!! How do I get one?
Hey fencekid, how do you keep the contrast, most all the dark has rubbed off almost immediately. also leaving dark marks on fingers. when they lose a bit at a time it is a pretty ugly mess.
I've been watching a lot of your videos and then one of your videos you show putting heat to a woman's ring in order to hammer and back my question is will Heap damage of silver ring or a brass colored ring you know the kind that look like gold, or gold it self. once again thank you for your info.
this is amazing!! i really need so help if you wouldn't mind i want to make my dad a ring for his 50th birthday and was wondering if the size of the coin makes a difference on the size ring you can make, i also want to make myself one and i have really thin fingers. please help me!!
Any chance of you selling these? I would like to buy one they are gorgeous.
hey man, these look great. I notice on your other video how to make the ring from a quarter, that right was a bit concave (sunken in) around the middle, whereas this one shows a nice curve (bowing) out, around the outside center. Is there a trick to get it to bow out rather than being sunken around the middle?
Thanks for this very useful tutorial! I have what is probably a stupid question....I don't have a blow torch. Would it suffice to heat the ring in the oven for a while?
He mentioned a sulfer bath to give the ring a frosty finish. What is a sulfer bath just sulfer water?
Have you tried liquid of sulfur with clad rings, does it work with coins that are not all silver?
Will baking powder work the same as baking soda ?
Good morning.wow very nice ring true
Where on Etsy or eBay for coin rings similar to this one ?
Will that leave your finger black when you wear the ring
hi fencekid ive wached so miney of your coin ring videos .there all grate i just got every thing needed to start makeing my own .i have a? about this ring im going to make one and use as my wedding band . i need to know what size punch you used to . get every thing on the band . if you can get back with me soon ide be grateful. thanks and have a nice day.
Question ? After using the liver of silver on my rings how do I protect the finish ? I think I remember you saying something about using wax ? I am I correct or dreaming it ! lol If so what kind do you use ? I know eventually it may wear and need redone but still need to coat or something for the time being. Thanks for your continued help.
So.... How do you go about acid etching the rings?
Very good job excusarme i dont have the sulfure liver i have the pátina for all metal how can i do to have similar result
Thankyou un advanced
Best regards from México Querétaro
Thank you for these vids man - I'm going to give making a ring a try! Do you do anything to "seal" the finish? I mean if I did this and gave the ring to someone and they tried to polish it up after a while would it take the patina off? Thanks again~
Did you neutralise prior to sanding or post? fencekid
Wow. Nice work! You should include the rings origin in the description, I think you only mentioned it once and that was at the beginning of the video. 1900 Newfoundland 50 cent coin, going for about $20 on Ebay. That is a wicked coin to use for a ring and Saw a video on how to make coin rings the other day, but it was only one sided. Just caught your double sided video, and now this one. I would like to see a ring made from the new 2012 1000 Colombian peso if you take requests haha
Dude, I really want this awesome ring! You should do a giveaway or something. :D
I'd like to make one of these and curve the edges, what all do I need?
I went on e-bay and bought this coin. When I dipped it,I got like a dark gray look and when I tried bring out the high lites it also takes out the background patina. I guess the coin is worn to bad. What can I seal the outside of rings with, anything? I tried jewelry sealer (Probably clear finger nail polish) and it takes the shine of the silver away and eventually turns yellowish. I also tried soaking a copper ring and it turned black but would wipe right off. You the man to ask!!
Don Cromer I use Renaissance Micro-Crystalline Wax Polish. But even that is temporary. TH-cam it. I don't know of any permanent coating. Let me know if you figure that one out, yeah?
Love all the cool ideas good work man!
These are great! I am having trouble getting this to work well on state quarters. Do you do or use something different for them?
Do you have a video on how to make that ring?
Can you please tell me what music is playing on the radio? These are great videos! Keep 'em comin' because you're a great speaker and teacher.
What size of hole did you punch in the coin?
Hi there man hope you had a grate Thanksgiving......So i got all the stuff needed to do whats on your video. But the problem im having is in the polishing phase. I keep taking off the black patina even if im gentle. On your finished product is super black. How do you do that??
Would that make the ring smell like sulfur?
dose it work on normal coin rings or just silver
Just wanted to say thanks for sharing your skill's with us Fence
fencekid, just curious at 3:31 you talk about putting the ring in a water / baking soda solution, i take it that you do this before the sanding? Just use warm water and baking soda and mix it up and just drop the ring in there for a while, then rinse off, dry, and start sanding?? Love your videos thanks for posting them.
MrMulliganjl Sure that'll work. As long as you deactivate the chemicals in the liver of sulfur on your ring before you call your ring finished
Thank you for your reply, love you videos, you do great work
thanx Man
WOW ! Can't wait to try this. Love it! Love it!
The rings look amazing but can I use a paso
Two questions:
+ how resilient is the liver of sulfur to normal wear and tear on the ring? Any thoughts? Sometimes I have a little tarnish left over from my firescale; this ultimately rubs off. I'm wondering if liver of sulfur would rub off similarly...
+ Does liver of sulfer work on all metals? Brass? Copper?
+Nate Conklin To be honest, not that resilient at all. this ring was back to silver in 2 weeks of hard labor. Any patina finish will rub off silver or copper rings. How long it lasts, Really depends on your lifestyle I guess.
Thanks for the heads up! Keep up the great videos! You've returned me back to a craft that I haven't made good in in quite a few years. Back in the day, we used something like this in my high-school jewelry shop, but I don't recall what it was.
+fencekid Have you found a better way to do this since this vid? I'm thinking you could seal it with clear nail polish or some sort of finishing spray but that would likely wear off as well.
Awesome video. Beautiful work.
YOU ARE THE MAN. POPING IT IS. I GOT ME A MANDREL LASTNIGHT
is this the same stuff as gun blueing?
Can you make a video on how to make a ring out of a quarter with a drill but leave no words on the middle? I'm having trouble with making mine and I need advice, you seem really good at this stuff!
Do you have a video on how to make that ring
Can i use some kind of other chemical???
you do some truely awesome work.
Hey Fencekid, Love your work. I am looking to make a coin wedding ring out of an old italian 20 grana coin ≈1690. I had a couple of questions for you. Do you think the coin is suitable as long as the edges are in pretty good shape? I would add a link but it doesnt allow me. Also, do you recommend doing and acid pickle before the liver of sulpher or is it overkill to do both?
Hey you rock! Excellent videos giving me some killer ideas