Nice footage, however you said nothing on how it works, before and after experience, sag set-up, price, you mentioned a long and short one ????? etc.. The first part of your video had me hooked. As a heavy rider that lives in the 75 to 80% of a 140mm fork when riding in Colorado or Quebec this looked like a possible solution to improve feel and get rid of that stiff ride I have to deal with, SO, what is it doing?
So Im sure the Tutune guys will come and give the full answer you need to assist in but from the website, Activated carbon plug and play insert that installs like a token, but acts to increase the effective air volume of your fork, resulting in a more linear and less speed sensitive response. Our first edition inserts are assembled in our workshop, and tested and validated with our dynos and our team of test riders. WHAT IT DOES FOR YOUR RIDE ⚡ Better grip, comfort and small bump compliance without compromising sag 💪 Linear, coil-like feel but with the adjustability and weight advantage of air 🤙 Unlocks more travel - make full use of your suspension ⭐ Makes the fork more consistent and predictable by dramatically reducing speed sensitivity CHOOSING BETWEEN STANDARD AND SHORT Short variants have more ramp up, and are more suitable in the following cases: ✅ Heavy rider (over 90 kg with gear) ✅ Ebikes ✅ Run 3 or more tokens as your preferred setup ✅ Run high pressure (100 psi or more) ✅ Aggressive style / frequent bottom out ✅ Typically ride large jumps where extra bottom out resistance is needed HOW IT WORKS The activated carbon contained in our inserts acts to increase the effective positive chamber air volume in your fork. This happens due to its high porosity and internal surface area, that traps and releases air molecules, mitigating changes in pressure (more information on that process can be found on our Technology page). The effect is similar to what happens when you remove tokens: the spring rate is more linear, with less ramp up. This may be hard to believe, because it is a solid material after all! The activated carbon in our inserts exchanges heat with the air, which mitigates the temperature changes in the air and dramatically reduces its speed sensitivity, resulting in a more consistent and predictable feeling. When using our inserts, the charge pressure is usually increased, to achieve similar pressures at the end of stroke compared to the original setup. This results in the right amount of support, but with improved tracking, bump absorption and comfort provided by the more linear spring rate. As @cornishcactus (Nice name by the way) mentions below, "Normal tokens take up air space,so when your fork compresses the air pressurises quicker and ramps up. The Truetune is like a Tardis theres more space on the inside. Something sciencey about carbon means that the air when pressurised it fills all the little nooks and crannies of the carbon rather than compress in free air. This effectively increases your air chamber volume and makes the fork more linear. The bigger Truetone token gives more of this effect, Ben's smaller one with a normal token gives less. More can be found here - trutune.co.uk/pages/technology 🤘
Ben here :) That's lots of questions. Bare with me! It works like @cornishcactus says. My response adds a touch to that. Suspension setup is a really personal thing - factoring so many variables. We talked at length about previous setups, experience, sag etc. However so much of it is not relevant to most of our audience, just Deaks and his riding style. Some people are super fussy with sag, others, us two Ben's here, run on feel. From memory, he was running between 15-20%. To answer your question - the long insert provides less progression than the short one. Deaks had done a bunch of testing prior to our meet, and found the long insert required too much pressure (for his weight and riding style), and too much compression damping for soaking up big hits. We swapped out the short insert, added more pressure than we usually recommend (20psi more), and more compression damping than stock and feedback was hugely positive. As you can see in the video, the fork is working, not blowing through the travel, and Deaks' is on it. This will definitely get rid of that stiff ride, but you'll need more pressure, and more compression damping to compensate to the faster fork movements. But with more pressure you'll get better mid-stroke support - so will require more force to get to your 75-80%. This isn't an ideal travel range to be living in. One prob with a 140 fork, is the reduced number of token space available. Message ben@trutune.co.uk if you want to discuss your personal setup.
This makes complete sense to me. One can think of Truetune as having a mini-shock inside your fork, which will help reduce the harsh progressivity of your fork at the end of the travel. This is because tokens block air and Truetune absorbs air molecules. At least this is how I understand it.
The way I understand it, normal tokens take up air space,so when your fork compresses the air pressurises quicker and ramps up. The Truetune is like a Tardis theres more space on the inside. Something sciencey about carbon means that the air when pressurised it fills all the little nooks and crannies of the carbon rather than compress in free air. This effectively increases your air chamber volume and makes the fork more linear. The bigger Truetone token gives more of this effect, Ben's smaller one with a normal token gives less. Might not be 100% on all of that but it's a better explanation than you got in the vid.
Yeah you've got it! We've got more technical videos on the bench - this video would be far too long had they allowed my explanations to ramble on 🫣 One thing to note - more pressure and increased linearity = more progression in the mid-stroke, and less progression at the end stroke (this is still tuneable with OEM tokens). Also, due to the Adiabatic effect of the air interacting with the carbon, fast compressions are considerably less stiff than they would be without this interaction. Thanks for your input. Music to my ears 🫡 Ben
Hi guys I'm looking to order one but saying pre order only for the fox 38 long only then order now when click into the option so just want to know are they available? Cheers
How do you like the insert after running it for a good months now ? . I’m thinking about getting one, but really struggling to find any reviews on the product, after it’s been used for a while .
Think of the carbon cartridge as a sponge that soaks up more air molecules relative to pressure. At ambient pressure it soaks up (adsorbs) a certain number of molecules. As your fork compresses the chamber pressure increases and the porous carbon material adsorbs more air molecules - slowing the overall rate of pressure increase in relation to fork compression. It’s as if your positive air chamber could slightly expand on the big hits, softening the ramp up. Not too shabby for a bootneck grav eh Ben? Thinking man’s soldier, tup three
No, there are no moving parts and the carbon does not degrade with time. However, it is essential that manufacturer specs are followed with ref to oil in the air chamber, and they are stored in a warm, dry environment when not in use.
I'm looking to try one of these in my fox 38s I've read alot about the shorter one being for more heavier riders is this the best to go for in this shock? What was the difference in feel comparisons I'd have liked to have seen that in the video. cheers
Definitely interested to try this and see how it feels compared to conventional tokens. My fork feels like it's fighting me deep intro the stroke and it needs to chill out a bit (can't describe it any better than that 😀) What about bottom-out though? If it's reducing back pressure at the end of the stroke (looking at the shock curves on the website), is it more likely to? Cheers!
Thanks for your interest. The trade off with tokens is the harsh ramp up deep in the stroke. The more tokens, the bigger range of your 'fighting', or harshness. It is essential to run more pressure with our insert, you'll need around 10% to get the same sag measurements. This extra pressure gives more support in the mid-stroke, which means more force required to get toward the end of travel. There is still ramp up at the end, which is tunable with tokens, too. We recommend 1-2 tokens for experienced/heavy/aggressive riders, up to a few more clicks of compression damping, and likely a little less rebound too.
As a 90kg ish rider who has experimented with vol spacers (RS pike rc2), I run one less volume spacer than I probably should because I don’t like the feel of the fork if I’m running enough spacers to temper hard bottom outs (especially on this one favorite jump on my local trail). Might give this gizmo a try….
@jokermtb, your intuition is good. Hard bottom outs are a chore. Running extra pressure is often a good thing - keeping you from diving too quick into the harsh end stroke (often at a sacrifice of small bump sensitivity). Our gizmo smooths out that harshness even at much higher pressures, without the sacrifice of small bump sensitivity. At your weight, I'd recommend our insert with a token too.
What do you recommend if I have a stiff fork and dont do much jumping on blue chunkie trials and still would like to have more mid support on steep terrain, in other work I dont like the feeling of my fork packing downon the steeps@@trutuneuk
Why is the short one now discontinued if TF tunned say this CHOOSING BETWEEN STANDARD AND SHORT Short variants have more ramp up, and are more suitable in the following cases: Heavy rider (over 90 kg with gear) Ebikes Run 3 or more tokens as your preferred setup Run high pressure (100 psi or more) Aggressive style / frequent bottom out Typically ride large jumps where extra bottom out resistance is needed
So if you are running Fox Forks as standard you would probably have one in there and in the pack you get with a new set of forks you would have a few spares, With the Trutune it gives a more specific setup for your riding style, more can be found on their website - trutune.co.uk/pages/technology
It changes the whole air spring dynamics. Tokens simply reduce air volume. With our insert, you'll be able to run more pressure - giving better mid-stroke support/progression, without the trade off harsh end of stroke ramp up. At 90kg, we'd recommend one or two tokens at a minimum, with our insert or not. Running tokens with our insert, there's a reduction in compromise regarding support, progression and a compliant suspension feel through the range of travel.
Once you get in your head it works opposite to a normal air token it makes sense. I am running another 20 psi in the fork and it’s running nice, Being over 90kg as well it’s important to run the correct one, I am running the short not the long 🙌
Hi David, our website is pretty informative, but to try and be brief - it alters the air spring dynamics. The insert is filled with activated carbon - this effectively increases air volume by allowing the air molecules to compact closer together under pressure. It also decreases air stiffness, particularly on fast compressions. This allows more pressure - for better mid-stroke support/progression, less end of stroke ramp up, for more control and compliance toward the end of stroke (or tuneable with volume reduction tokens), and much better compliance, grip and braking performance in rough terrain.
A very different product, but comparable in practice - our Trutune insert makes the fork much more coil like in feel, with a very tuneable ramp toward the end of stroke. A Smashpot solves the problem of a coil being too linear, but adding hydraulic bottom out support. A smash pot/coil setup will be less tunable than an air spring, and more expensive, and heavy, but a coil will always be the gold standard in terms of plush suspension feel.
I have a yari with a fast damper and an ever flow tank air cartridge with the long (no longer made?) true tune and it’s not as good as the smashpot but it’s 600g lighter and 98% as good. I’m 94kg and no slouch.
Tossing a can of carbon powder into a fork is probably not a great idea. It's very abrasive so if the powder gets out it is not great for seals and sliding bearings, etc.
The insert/cartridge secures to the underside of the top cap, just as OEM tokens do. Minimal tossing advised. The carbon is contained within a sealed unit.. So the powder doesn't get out. It's also important not too exceed manufacturer specs on the token limit as this can cause damage to the token and potentially the fork too.
Show me a sponsor advert without telling me it's a sponsor advert. Evan's MTB Saga would be way way more informative and I'd likely to listen to that tbh.
Advertising pays the bills and keeps the lights on, you’re watching free videos on the internet. Also for small businesses influencers are extremely good to get your name out there. :)
@@zubayrbhyat8077 It costs to promote, surely that's a given? Time, experience, travel, a camera man, an edit etc. We've got some valuable, genuine feedback too which we're sharing with a wider audience, which also goes straight into product development. Some cool footage to boot. Thanks for the heads up - we've got more information projects in the pipeline, and will likely reach out to Evan's MTB saga ✌
Nice footage, however you said nothing on how it works, before and after experience, sag set-up, price, you mentioned a long and short one ????? etc.. The first part of your video had me hooked. As a heavy rider that lives in the 75 to 80% of a 140mm fork when riding in Colorado or Quebec this looked like a possible solution to improve feel and get rid of that stiff ride I have to deal with, SO, what is it doing?
So Im sure the Tutune guys will come and give the full answer you need to assist in but from the website,
Activated carbon plug and play insert that installs like a token, but acts to increase the effective air volume of your fork, resulting in a more linear and less speed sensitive response. Our first edition inserts are assembled in our workshop, and tested and validated with our dynos and our team of test riders.
WHAT IT DOES FOR YOUR RIDE
⚡ Better grip, comfort and small bump compliance without compromising sag
💪 Linear, coil-like feel but with the adjustability and weight advantage of air
🤙 Unlocks more travel - make full use of your suspension
⭐ Makes the fork more consistent and predictable by dramatically reducing speed sensitivity
CHOOSING BETWEEN STANDARD AND SHORT
Short variants have more ramp up, and are more suitable in the following cases:
✅ Heavy rider (over 90 kg with gear)
✅ Ebikes
✅ Run 3 or more tokens as your preferred setup
✅ Run high pressure (100 psi or more)
✅ Aggressive style / frequent bottom out
✅ Typically ride large jumps where extra bottom out resistance is needed
HOW IT WORKS
The activated carbon contained in our inserts acts to increase the effective positive chamber air volume in your fork. This happens due to its high porosity and internal surface area, that traps and releases air molecules, mitigating changes in pressure (more information on that process can be found on our Technology page). The effect is similar to what happens when you remove tokens: the spring rate is more linear, with less ramp up. This may be hard to believe, because it is a solid material after all!
The activated carbon in our inserts exchanges heat with the air, which mitigates the temperature changes in the air and dramatically reduces its speed sensitivity, resulting in a more consistent and predictable feeling.
When using our inserts, the charge pressure is usually increased, to achieve similar pressures at the end of stroke compared to the original setup. This results in the right amount of support, but with improved tracking, bump absorption and comfort provided by the more linear spring rate.
As @cornishcactus (Nice name by the way) mentions below,
"Normal tokens take up air space,so when your fork compresses the air pressurises quicker and ramps up.
The Truetune is like a Tardis theres more space on the inside. Something sciencey about carbon means that the air when pressurised it fills all the little nooks and crannies of the carbon rather than compress in free air.
This effectively increases your air chamber volume and makes the fork more linear.
The bigger Truetone token gives more of this effect, Ben's smaller one with a normal token gives less.
More can be found here - trutune.co.uk/pages/technology 🤘
Ben here :) That's lots of questions. Bare with me! It works like @cornishcactus says. My response adds a touch to that. Suspension setup is a really personal thing - factoring so many variables. We talked at length about previous setups, experience, sag etc. However so much of it is not relevant to most of our audience, just Deaks and his riding style. Some people are super fussy with sag, others, us two Ben's here, run on feel. From memory, he was running between 15-20%. To answer your question - the long insert provides less progression than the short one. Deaks had done a bunch of testing prior to our meet, and found the long insert required too much pressure (for his weight and riding style), and too much compression damping for soaking up big hits. We swapped out the short insert, added more pressure than we usually recommend (20psi more), and more compression damping than stock and feedback was hugely positive. As you can see in the video, the fork is working, not blowing through the travel, and Deaks' is on it. This will definitely get rid of that stiff ride, but you'll need more pressure, and more compression damping to compensate to the faster fork movements. But with more pressure you'll get better mid-stroke support - so will require more force to get to your 75-80%. This isn't an ideal travel range to be living in. One prob with a 140 fork, is the reduced number of token space available. Message ben@trutune.co.uk if you want to discuss your personal setup.
So is it just the short one now available for fox 38s? I'm ready to order one just TF still have both
This makes complete sense to me. One can think of Truetune as having a mini-shock inside your fork, which will help reduce the harsh progressivity of your fork at the end of the travel. This is because tokens block air and Truetune absorbs air molecules. At least this is how I understand it.
Spoke to these guys at Ard Rock last year and it was an interesting concept so will be good to see how you get on with it long term.
The way I understand it, normal tokens take up air space,so when your fork compresses the air pressurises quicker and ramps up.
The Truetune is like a Tardis theres more space on the inside. Something sciencey about carbon means that the air when pressurised it fills all the little nooks and crannies of the carbon rather than compress in free air.
This effectively increases your air chamber volume and makes the fork more linear.
The bigger Truetone token gives more of this effect, Ben's smaller one with a normal token gives less.
Might not be 100% on all of that but it's a better explanation than you got in the vid.
🤘🤘🤘
Yeah you've got it! We've got more technical videos on the bench - this video would be far too long had they allowed my explanations to ramble on 🫣 One thing to note - more pressure and increased linearity = more progression in the mid-stroke, and less progression at the end stroke (this is still tuneable with OEM tokens). Also, due to the Adiabatic effect of the air interacting with the carbon, fast compressions are considerably less stiff than they would be without this interaction. Thanks for your input. Music to my ears 🫡 Ben
Hi guys I'm looking to order one but saying pre order only for the fox 38 long only then order now when click into the option so just want to know are they available? Cheers
Will have to try one of these.
How do you like the insert after running it for a good months now ? . I’m thinking about getting one, but really struggling to find any reviews on the product, after it’s been used for a while .
It’s still in the fork now 😜
I have no idea what you are talking about here but I love the wheels on the blue van.
😂😂😂😂 Theres a curb mark on two of them 🤦♂🤦♂🤦♂🤦♂😂
@@BenDeakinMTB Shit happens :)
Think of the carbon cartridge as a sponge that soaks up more air molecules relative to pressure.
At ambient pressure it soaks up (adsorbs) a certain number of molecules. As your fork compresses the chamber pressure increases and the porous carbon material adsorbs more air molecules - slowing the overall rate of pressure increase in relation to fork compression. It’s as if your positive air chamber could slightly expand on the big hits, softening the ramp up.
Not too shabby for a bootneck grav eh Ben? Thinking man’s soldier, tup three
does this also work on rockshox forks,or only for Fox suspension?
I've got it on my zeb!
@@tomh434 so this meins it would work on a domain too?
Seen these a few times, definitely interested. Do they have a lifespan at all?
No, there are no moving parts and the carbon does not degrade with time. However, it is essential that manufacturer specs are followed with ref to oil in the air chamber, and they are stored in a warm, dry environment when not in use.
I'm looking to try one of these in my fox 38s I've read alot about the shorter one being for more heavier riders is this the best to go for in this shock? What was the difference in feel comparisons I'd have liked to have seen that in the video. cheers
The shorter one for my weight basically allowed it to ramp up better towards the end of the stroke for my weight.
Thank you, is it just the shorty they do now i see for fox 38s?
Definitely interested to try this and see how it feels compared to conventional tokens. My fork feels like it's fighting me deep intro the stroke and it needs to chill out a bit (can't describe it any better than that 😀) What about bottom-out though? If it's reducing back pressure at the end of the stroke (looking at the shock curves on the website), is it more likely to? Cheers!
Thanks for your interest. The trade off with tokens is the harsh ramp up deep in the stroke. The more tokens, the bigger range of your 'fighting', or harshness. It is essential to run more pressure with our insert, you'll need around 10% to get the same sag measurements. This extra pressure gives more support in the mid-stroke, which means more force required to get toward the end of travel. There is still ramp up at the end, which is tunable with tokens, too. We recommend 1-2 tokens for experienced/heavy/aggressive riders, up to a few more clicks of compression damping, and likely a little less rebound too.
@@trutuneuk Awesome, thanks. Are you planning on any demo days at FOD, Rogate, etc.?
As a 90kg ish rider who has experimented with vol spacers (RS pike rc2), I run one less volume spacer than I probably should because I don’t like the feel of the fork if I’m running enough spacers to temper hard bottom outs (especially on this one favorite jump on my local trail). Might give this gizmo a try….
@jokermtb, your intuition is good. Hard bottom outs are a chore. Running extra pressure is often a good thing - keeping you from diving too quick into the harsh end stroke (often at a sacrifice of small bump sensitivity). Our gizmo smooths out that harshness even at much higher pressures, without the sacrifice of small bump sensitivity. At your weight, I'd recommend our insert with a token too.
What do you recommend if I have a stiff fork and dont do much jumping on blue chunkie trials and still would like to have more mid support on steep terrain, in other work I dont like the feeling of my fork packing downon the steeps@@trutuneuk
Cheers Ben I'll be looking into that because I'm a heavier rider 👍🏽 merry Christmas BD,🎅
Likewise mate 🤘
Why is the short one now discontinued if TF tunned say this
CHOOSING BETWEEN STANDARD AND SHORT
Short variants have more ramp up, and are more suitable in the following cases:
Heavy rider (over 90 kg with gear)
Ebikes
Run 3 or more tokens as your preferred setup
Run high pressure (100 psi or more)
Aggressive style / frequent bottom out
Typically ride large jumps where extra bottom out resistance is needed
I have an Ebike yari fork which is pretty stiff, which one do you recommend the short or regular one
Short if you are on the heavier side regular if you don’t ride as aggressively
So what exactly does this add over just tokens? Im around 90kg too but iv never even considered the fox tokens. Should I?
you might be running some and not know it. Tokens are a must as you get faster and need a more progressive tune
So if you are running Fox Forks as standard you would probably have one in there and in the pack you get with a new set of forks you would have a few spares, With the Trutune it gives a more specific setup for your riding style, more can be found on their website - trutune.co.uk/pages/technology
It changes the whole air spring dynamics. Tokens simply reduce air volume. With our insert, you'll be able to run more pressure - giving better mid-stroke support/progression, without the trade off harsh end of stroke ramp up. At 90kg, we'd recommend one or two tokens at a minimum, with our insert or not. Running tokens with our insert, there's a reduction in compromise regarding support, progression and a compliant suspension feel through the range of travel.
Jim at Pinned TV had one of these for testing. Not sure how he set it up, burt he took it back out as it felt terrible.
Once you get in your head it works opposite to a normal air token it makes sense. I am running another 20 psi in the fork and it’s running nice, Being over 90kg as well it’s important to run the correct one, I am running the short not the long 🙌
That drop on GBU always looks so small on camera 😮
Annoying isn't it 😂
is it the same 2014 Suntour Auron insert ?
I wouldn't know but give the guys a message 🤘
No, very different in both concept and effect. The Auron insert is simply to reduce volume, like any other OEM token.
Any more detail on how it works?
look on the website
Hi David, our website is pretty informative, but to try and be brief - it alters the air spring dynamics. The insert is filled with activated carbon - this effectively increases air volume by allowing the air molecules to compact closer together under pressure. It also decreases air stiffness, particularly on fast compressions. This allows more pressure - for better mid-stroke support/progression, less end of stroke ramp up, for more control and compliance toward the end of stroke (or tuneable with volume reduction tokens), and much better compliance, grip and braking performance in rough terrain.
How does it compare to a Smashpot?
Ive never ridden one but less weight, and more unable without having to change a whole coil?
A very different product, but comparable in practice - our Trutune insert makes the fork much more coil like in feel, with a very tuneable ramp toward the end of stroke. A Smashpot solves the problem of a coil being too linear, but adding hydraulic bottom out support. A smash pot/coil setup will be less tunable than an air spring, and more expensive, and heavy, but a coil will always be the gold standard in terms of plush suspension feel.
I have a yari with a fast damper and an ever flow tank air cartridge with the long (no longer made?) true tune and it’s not as good as the smashpot but it’s 600g lighter and 98% as good. I’m 94kg and no slouch.
Tossing a can of carbon powder into a fork is probably not a great idea. It's very abrasive so if the powder gets out it is not great for seals and sliding bearings, etc.
The insert/cartridge secures to the underside of the top cap, just as OEM tokens do. Minimal tossing advised. The carbon is contained within a sealed unit.. So the powder doesn't get out. It's also important not too exceed manufacturer specs on the token limit as this can cause damage to the token and potentially the fork too.
Dont be deakin around in the woods
Show me a sponsor advert without telling me it's a sponsor advert.
Evan's MTB Saga would be way way more informative and I'd likely to listen to that tbh.
Advertising pays the bills and keeps the lights on, you’re watching free videos on the internet. Also for small businesses influencers are extremely good to get your name out there. :)
@@solomonclithero8923 I respect that but there's an obligation to say it's paid promotion. It's an ethical thing to do.
Especially when there was little to no information other than to show us it's a thing we can buy.
But for how much and from where? Not entirely sure.
@@roddas26 trutune.co.uk/products/insert 👍
@@zubayrbhyat8077 It costs to promote, surely that's a given? Time, experience, travel, a camera man, an edit etc. We've got some valuable, genuine feedback too which we're sharing with a wider audience, which also goes straight into product development. Some cool footage to boot. Thanks for the heads up - we've got more information projects in the pipeline, and will likely reach out to Evan's MTB saga ✌