Can cats and dogs eat a vegan diet? (why Sniff still eats meat)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- This is the follow-up to my video "Is owning pets vegan?" ( • Is Owning Pets Vegan? ... ). While ownership itself is not a problem, what we feed them certainly is. As vegans, how can we possibly justify feeding sentient animals to our pets? We can't, and as a result, many of us turn to a vegan diet. But can it be done? Can dogs and cats actually be healthy on a plant-based diet?
Time Codes
0:35 - Vegans, pets, & cognitive dissonance
1:40 - Appeal to Nature
4:39 - Vegan pet food: Can it be done?
9:07 - Vegan cat food brands, quality control, & professionalism
14:24 - Middle ground?
19:18 - What does Sniff eat?
21:28 - Better is better
23:39 - A near-vegan kibble?
25:15 - Final thoughts (more tips, my potential bias, and adoption)
28:47 - Final FINAL thoughts (why Sniff will never die)
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References
Raw meat advocates on synthetic taurine
feline-nutritio...
2004 nutrient analysis (Evolution and Vegecat)
www.ncbi.nlm.ni...
2006 cat study (tested B12 and taurine)
www.ncbi.nlm.ni...
2014 study/nutrient analysis
www.vetmeduni.a...
Can My Cat Be Healthy on a Vegan Diet? (Armaiti May, DVM, CVA)
veganhealth.org...
Vegancats.com FAQ
www.vegancats.c...
Jed Gillen (authro of Obligate Carnivore) on vegan cats
www.satyamag.co...
Cats: Ethics (The Vegan Option)
theveganoption....
Cats: Can they be vegan? (The Vegan Option)
theveganoption....
Understanding pet food labels
vet.osu.edu/vmc...
Mandatory steps for feeding a vegan diet to cats
www.vegancats.c...
vegepets.info/d...
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Update on the correlation between legume/potato-based food and DCM in dogs th-cam.com/video/gWCOiFWYKxQ/w-d-xo.html
Haha your to cotton candy to reply but ALOT of people think you should be in trouble for feeding your animals things thier body isn't made for, actually it is a form of cruelty, I just called and asked humane society
Jeffery Wiser you’re** too** their**
Also dogs are omnivores meaning they can survive on both meat or plant based diets. And by the way you clicked on this video don’t like it? Don’t watch it 😂
Update: you're not vegan
You can tell that most of the people in the comments haven't actually watched the entire video.
Because they don't need to hear this bitch ramble for 15 minutes to know a carnivore can't eat kale with her, I'm glad you learned something
@@jefferywiser415 there's a lot of information in this video though and it's not that you shouldn't eat kale with your dog
If you want to feed your pet a vegan diet, get a vegan pet. Period.
Rabbits, birds, goat... Take your pick.
THANK YOU. cats and dogs are mainly carnivores, and not feeding them food their bodies are meant to function off is cruel and neglect in my opinion.
What about people who already had a cat when they decided to go vegan?
+Alice Feed your pet meat. When they die, get a vegan pet for the next one. Simple.
+Alice, that means they are still responsible for it's health and life quality.
Alice They stick by their decision and feed their pet appropriately or find them a good home that will.
this might be stupid on so many levels but i was thinking, what if that artificially/lab grown/cultured meat was actually used for pet food?
This isn't stupid and I actually was thinking the same thing! I'm sure once it's approved for humans it will be tested for animals.
the animals who would eat it would be sick or feel very weak because they are carnivor
I hope it is developed in the future
that's my hope for the future :>
It's not stupid, I am waiting for that too.
Both my pet and I are vegan. However, my pet is 100% RAW vegan. He's always bragging about it saying how much healthier he is. He only eats fruits and veggies, no dressings, no nothing. Just plain like that. He even says some fruits are too sugary for him. Can you believe it? He's also a rabbit, so hehe.
Some people have told me it's "speciesist" to feed a cat a cow, and I understand that, but in that case they shouldn't adopt a cat then. If they're never going to give a carnivore any meat that's just animal cruelty, plain and simple, to take an animal into your home to be cruel to it is the worst and most "speciesist" thing to do. If you're going to take home a cat you should respect what it needs and try and find the most ethical meat for it.
Agree. There are brands of cat food, specifically the raw varieties, that use rabbit and other smaller animals cats would be more likely to kill and consume on their own if someone really feels it's unnatural to feed beef to a cat.
Also, if someone wants a vegan pet they can just get a bunny or rabbit. They need good indoor homes too and they will be happy to eat lettuce with you.
+xosecox12 exactly!
Of course. If you want to own a carnivore, you have to feed it meat. If you want to go all natural, you could feed it a raw diet and feed it what it would normally eat in the wild (in a cat's case, things like rodents, rabbits, birds, fish, etc) But if you're completely not okay with meat, you can get a rabbit or a rodent. They are smart and form bonds and cuddle and stuff like cats and dogs, and they only eat plants.
Animal cruelty is feeding your cat meat. Let it hunt for itself. How can you justify killing thousands of innocent beings yourself, that were confined in torture chambers and lived the worst life possible? It is speciesist and you miss the point.
I have no ethical concern for feeding my cats a meat based diet because they are adept predators. Cats are obligate carnivores, biologically they need lots of meat to thrive. I think it is important to pay attention to more than just the nutrient requirements of what it means to be a carnivore. For example, their digestive systems have adapted to eat raw flesh. Compared to other mammals, their digestive tract is short as raw meat is highly digestible. When my cats see a bird, their mouth salivates. They see their next meal. And when left to their own devices, they will hunt, murder and eat any living creature they can catch. I choose a vegan lifestyle because I want to create as little harm as possible, and for me, that is extended to my cats. I feel like it is cruel and unethical to impart my plant-based lifestyle onto my carnivorous cats.
🙌
Fucking THANK YOU.
I agree that they shouldn't be forced not to eat meat because their owner's beliefs, but it's weird to me that you would feel comfortable getting a pet that requires for you to economically support the meat industry since you are vegan.
Louisa H but you are an omnivore, all humans are. “Vegan” diets are not natural nor healthy. As for pups and cats yes strictly carnivores. And lastly, No animals “murder,” they will hunt. Humans who hunt, butcher, and raise animals for food aren’t “murderers” either. Don’t apply man’s logic reason and law to animals.
@@fbnflaviusbroadcastingnetw6786 being an omnivore means you can eat everything, and thus you can easily remplace one thing with the other, it's been proven again and again a vegan diet is not unnatural given how we aren't carnivores, and can be healthy. The woman in this video? She has been a vegan for a long time, she suplements apropiatedly, and she's fine, so quit that argument cause it has nothing to hold onto.
For the rest I agree, animals don't murder, they simply survive, they don't kill simply for the pleasure of it, or for vengeance or any other thing, they kill to eat and defend themselves, period.
My dog does not eat any vegan dog foods I have tried. The food bowl remains full. Unless I want him to starve I have to feed him a carnivorous diet. Given that I have the responsibility of taking the best possible care of him I choose to feed him a traditional dog diet despite my own diet and morals.
Try slowly giving him the new food. Like this week you could do one cup of regular dog food and one tablespoon of vegan dog food. Then next week 2 tablespoons of vegan dog food and take out some of the regular dog food until it's all vegan dog food. But if your dog still doesn't like it give him what he wants. Best of luck.
to properly switch the dry food it's a process of 6 days. I had to switch my cat to a hypoallergenic food because she is breaking out in allergy spots from whiskis. she won't eat any wet food. but when it comes to dry food, it is her favorite
You could try mixing the food with something he really likes. Cats absolutely love nutritional yeast, I don't know if that goes for dogs as well but it's worth a try.
You can't get most humans to eat entirely vegan meals either. That doesn't mean they will literally starve themselves to death if they do not have animal products available to them. I think you'll find that your dog is similar in that regard.
To the comment that the dog would eat it eventually that's not true. Dogs and cats aren't like humans. They really will choose to starve over eating a food they don't like. That's anorexia can be common in cats.
Glad that you're ultimately not recommending a vegan diet for cats but your scientific reasoning in this video is incredibly incomplete. Nutritional analysis only ignores biological systems in obligate carnivores entirely, which from an animal care standpoint is irresponsible at best.
Cats don't JUST have a set of macronutrient needs. They have several biological systems which have evolved to process and disgest meat. Their teeth being an obvious starting point (and many cats on commercial diets of any kind have dental problems that would likely be mitigated if they were eating more small bones and sinew) and their digestive system being probably the more important thing to consider. They are biologically designed to cope with high calorie, highly digestible food - meat. Giving them a vegan diet might meet their macronutrient needs but it doesn't take into account a cat's natural appetite, stomach pH, gut bacteria, or digestive enzymes. Many of its body systems, especially its kidneys, will be under greater strain on a plant-based diet, having to extract nutrition from a food source it has not evolved to effectively, efficiently extract nutrition from. Can it do it, if forced? Probably. Is it good for its systems to be under greater strain than it needs to be? Definitely not. Do you want your cat to simply survive, or thrive?
I would also NEVER recommend a commercial kibble, vegan or meat-based, from companies like Purina and Friskies. These companies use plant-based fillers in their kibble, not for ethical reasons but for simple economic reasons. They are no better for your cat than a vegan diet, for the exact same reasons. It's also why the very first treatment for a cat with feline idiopathic cystitis is a diet change to a kibble that does not work against its biological systems, alter pH, and place the kidneys under strain. Studies which use these cheap kibble fed cats as controls against vegan fed cats are essentially comparing two inadequate diets which cats are not able to easily, efficiently, and effectively digest. That is not a good control.
Imagine if you advocated doing the reverse to a herbivorous animal. I COULD meet my horse's nutritional and caloric needs on a meat-based diet, if I so chose. In theory it's exactly as possible as a vegan cat. Is it good for, or fair on, an animal that has biological systems designed to manage large quantities of low calorie, difficult to digest foods, to feed it smaller quantities of high calorie, highly disgestible meat-based foods? Absolutely not. It ignores the speed with which food should travel through the digestive system, the role of chewing, the digestive enzymes, gut bacteria, the animal's natural appetite which drives it to eat for over 18 hours a day.
Kibble is actually not recommended for cats, it's recommended that you feed them wet food because cats rarely drink water and they get easily dehydrated on kibble. Even in wet food they have plant based fillers for economical reasons. The problem is more so that it's dry not that it contains plant based fillers.
Thank you! These are exactly the thoughts I wanted to convey in my own comment, but I can’t organize my thoughts into words very well haha
Purina is a well known brand for putting artifical ingredients and the worst quality of products into it. It's as bad as people who feed their pets bakers or pedigree just because it's expensive and in shops. Basically paying high prices to feed your pets cancer.
I worked in animal nutrition for a while and wanted to say pretty much exactly all this...then scrolled down to find someone else went to the work of typing it all out!!! haha
But seriously, great job explaining this and it makes me really happy to see that not only are there people out there that understand this but that you put it up in a well-explained format here to help others learn:)
this is so well said thank you so much for this comment.
The comments section is full of people who CLEARLY did not watch the entire video 😑😑😑
but really, if you can't handle the moral implications and ickyness of feeding your pet the diet it is biologically designed to eat, you shouldn't own an omnivorous pet. get a rabbit or a guinea pig. they're still fluffy and cuddly, but there's no moral battle on what to feed them. they're vegan by nature!
I like the intention of this comment, but she literally explains the naturalistic fallacy at the very beginning.. the metabolic distinctions that determine obligate or non-obligate is not black and white. Meat is not magic it’s a composition of molecules. It’s more than possible to synthesize an optimal composition of nutrients for every species. Obviously some are easier to produce than others, i don’t trust the average laymen to feed a cat an adequate diet even with meat involved lol
With this being said I just don’t like “biologically designed to eat meat” it’s a spectrum of compatibility. the black and white language felt slightly problematic. Even if I also don’t trust most people to feed their pet adequately.
Stop using the word "own". You don't OWN pets just like you don't own your kids
I've fostered literally over 1000 cats and dogs over the last decade. At one point I started some of the dogs (including the ones I've adopted) on vegan dog food. We went through several brands and none thrived.
My two, having been on the vegan food(s) the longest, both required vet intervention costing me thousands. One of our fosters thrived on mostly raw meat.
All the others we had on the vegan food had problems ranging from GI problems to skin/fur issues.
That experiment ended.
With the advent of lab meat, I would expect a more viable solution to be available in the future.
The vast majority of lab grown meat (also known as in-vitro meat) is not vegan because of the use of fetal bovine serum (coagulated and centrifuged blood extracted from a cow fetus) to culture the stem cells. Many people do not seem to be aware of this, so I would be weary of the first few generations of lab grown meat products. They will also probably be prohibitively expensive because of this very reason (FBS is expensive)
I wasn't going to reply to this video at all because it's such a contentious topic and comments are never long enough for a truly enlightening debate. I've rescued and rehabbed both wild and domestic animals (and have been able to return to the wild the ones who didn't have permanent disability); and so I want to THANK YOU for fostering! I not only foster animals, I'm a foster kid myself. Thank you for all the lives you have rescued, and best wishes to your fosters from me and mine! ❤️
(But don't worry, I'm an adult -- I think that comment came out sounding as if I'm not. Hence the problem with comments, lol)
Herbivorous Cyborg Oh, I'm well aware of how lab meat is currently produced, and I'm sure the use of fetal bovine serum will be replaced at some point. But I think that it would be a far better solution to raising livestock for domestic animals to eat.
zxy atiywariii Fostering has been tremendously rewarding, and I love each and every one of the ones who have come through my home.
+InvisiMan2006 I have dogs and since becoming vegan I feed them an omnivore diet. I think completely cutting out the meat could be dangerous for them. I'm trying to be as humane as possible but not all dogs can survive a vegan diet. After my dogs I will prob get a bunny lol
I've studied animal nutrition, microbiology, biochemistry and anatomy and physiology for years and I personally believe that feeding your cat a vegan diet is disgusting. Fair enough, humans are designed to eat fruits and vegetables. However, there's no doubt that cats are carnivores and forcing them to eat vegan is awful, whether you supplement them or not. Their digestive system is not capable of properly digesting plant matter which results in stomach aches and digestive problems. Would you feed a lion in a zoo potatoes and supplements? No. Because that's not what they eat. They eat meat.
Dogs take to vegan diets much better because they don't require the taurine that cats require. They are also less fussy about what they eat and if given a vegan diet from a younger age then they will happily eat it. While I would never suggest that anyone feeds their dog a vegan diet (because they are literally carnivores, look at the teeth, digestive system, head shape, etc) they can survive on it.
Maybe we should all be vegan ourselves but not force our beliefs onto our animals. Dogs and cats are clearly carnivores and should eat meat. Humans are clearly herbivores and should eat plants and vegetables. Lets keep it this way. Honestly with the way veganism is going, soon we'll all be removing our cats teeth so they can't kill animals when they're outside. Just stop. Let the animals be animals. Let carnivorous animals be carnivorous. Animals should always be "allowed the right to express natural behaviour" such as hunting and eating meat. Lets not go against one of their five freedoms just because of how we feel.
If you are vegan and want a vegan pet, here's a list of vegan pets:
- Birds
- Mice
- Rats
- Goats
- Sheep
- Gerbils
- Hamsters
- Guinea Pigs
- Rabbits
- Tortoises
- Some fish
TLDR; Don't feed carnivores a vegan diet. Grow up and realise that the entire world including the animals can't be vegan and if you don't like meat and meat eating animals, DON'T ADOPT THEM. Thank you. :)
Emily Robinson 👏👏👏👏👏👏 thank you! Well said
Emily Robinson Rats are omnivorous, they need meat in their diet (or supplements, as humans or dogs, it's the problem of vegan diets in omnivorous species, if they, (or we) were real herbivores they wouldn't need supplements) I understand that some people choose not eating products from animals because ethical reasons, but you can't change the nature of your pets for your convenience.
Why does it matter what dogs or cats are "meant to eat"? If we can feed them healthy food that they like does it matter if it includes supplements and no meat? I'm not saying cats SHOULD be fed a vegan diet, as the video says there are risks associated with it. Saying "look at dogs' teeth" is not a valid argument against feeding them vegan diets. I disagree that animals "should always be allowed the right to express their natural behavior". If my dog's natural behavior is to attack cats walking down the road I stop them. If my cat catches a baby bunny outside I save the bunny and put the cat inside. They don't need to kill things to survive; I feed them. In the same way, if they don't need meat to survive, I see literally no benefit in feeding it to them. "It's what they eat" is not a valid argument to me, because they eat what I feed them. As long as it's healthy and doesn't put them at risk of health problems I see no issue here.
Looking at a dog's teeth is not a rationalization for feeding them meat no more than looking at humans teeth requires that we eat meat. You don't need to remove cat's teeth to prevent them from wreaking havoc on the local ecosystem. It's called an outdoor enclosure, catio, or don't let your cat outdoors. I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. It's not the concept of feeding your pet meat it's the fact that by feeding your pets meat you're supporting the extremely harmful and cruel meat industry which you don't have to if you don't need to. (dogs)
tasha b. Its funny that you call the meat industry cruel while you try to justify a feeding plant based diets to carnivorous animals. Slowly killing animals because you push your morality upon them...talk about cruel.
If you want a vegan pet just get a rabbit or a parrot.
Ink but ADOPT most importantly.
Ink or a hamster
Or a rat.. damn there's a lot of animals who don't need meat
Right? Lol.
Parrots can eat meat, though
I'm sorry but if you are not willing to feed your cat a meat-based diet but want to force your ethical ideas on a f-ing animal, DON'T OWN A PET.
+VeladoriaTalks calm down Korra
There are enough people in the comments and on this earth to make this comment valid
if you think it's immoral to abuse, brutalize and kill animals, and you believe you must do this to feed a pet then DON'T OWN A PET.
what? lmfao @mad dusa, i think you might need to take a step back and mull that one over.. rofl
Justin Heiden nope.
Cats are not meant to eat veggies, grains or any of that other stuff. Strictly meat and everything else is unessesary fillers! I'm all about saving animals but when it comes to my cat who is my baby then it's his life I choose. I took on the responsibility to keep him safe and healthy and that's exactly what I will do no matter what.
So, its okay other animals suffer and live in horrific environments, fed antibiotics, pumped with hormones, and fed GMO food as long as your cat eats. Like his life is any more important than theirs.
+Skatergirl 15 thank you!! Someone that understands! 👍😽
You can put a human child on an Atkins diet with a multivitamin and they probably won’t develop health problems for a while, but that doesn’t mean that it’s in any way healthy or nutritionally/biologically appropriate. Feed your animal what it’s meant to eat, and try to be as ethical as possible in those choices by not supporting factory farming. This is what I feed my dog: www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/freeze-dried-raw-dinners
when people are scared of GMOs shows how dumb they are..
Ruta B I’m not sure what that has to do with anything being discussed, but even if you don’t believe that GMOs are bad, the pesticides they use on GMO crops are demonstrably carcinogenic to humans. Again, I’m not sure what your motivation is to make a negative comment on a thread that doesn’t have to do with the topic at hand, and to not include any supporting information for that claim.
i've had my cat for a year now and i´ve been vegan for 9 months now, i cant change his diet so i still feed him normal cat food , he just loves meat and fish :( i think its his nature to like these foods, and i cant ask him if he would prefer to eat plant-based like me so why change his diet? he's healthy, strong and very happy, im vegan and he is not i cant force him ...
There are myriad stories of vegans putting their pets on vegan diets where they either die or get incredibly ill. On another vegan video about this subject, somebody commented that they had to stop trying to feed their cats a vegan diet after several of them in a row died (I shit you not). People should not make animals eat a biologically inappropriate diet simply because the idea of buying meat products makes them uncomfortable; when you take an animal into your life, you have to be prepared to accept everything that comes with it - including providing them with appropriate nutrition and care. The best thing you can do is make peace with that and make sure your carnivorous animal is consuming meats that are sustainably sourced and as ethically raised as possible (IMO Swayze’s suggestion to consume big brands that use factory farm waste is at best unethical and at worst extremely harmful both because it supports factory farming, which includes contributing to worsening antibiotic resistance and torturing animals, and because much of those products are processed with a whole host of unhealthy things that never appear on the label).
In short, feed your cat what it’s designed to eat, and try to make sure it’s coming from a place that minimizes environmental harm.
@smushface this makes me wonder if vegans shouldn't be allowed to own pets, that is abuse
Xiomara Cancin
So, when you realize that YOU also need meat and animal products, hopefully you'll be just as enthusiastic.
So, basically all that "ethics" stuff doesn't matter, when the animal that eats the meat needs it. Vegans can be militant, but as soon as they come into contact with cats or lions, they can eat all the meat they want. Why not give that same courtesy to humans?
@clear mist but like, that's implying that we would just disregard all the science and statistics that prove that humans actually don't need meat or animal products...
You recommend feeding the cats cheaper food that usually contains more wheat fillers that cats cannot digest...
I had the same concerns. I have been feeding my cats the Blue Wilderness brand as they don't use any grain products. I do understand that causes more harm to animals since they are raised/killed specifically for the cat food, but is feeding the cats a cheaper option that includes grain safe? I'm conflicted on the ethics of buying a product that doesn't add to the harm of animals by using the byproducts vs. the responsibility of owning cats and not directly causing them any harm. Any suggestions?
+ohthekrugmanity for me it's like "I'm going to potentially harm my cat so there is less harm in the world" and I honestly can't wrap my head around it. What is more, the cheap cat food has additional flavor which makes it appealing even though it's not good. That's why cats looove Felix stuff so much.
Yea I fed my cats Purina for a long time but when I got my 3rd cat I started looking into healthier options and that's why I chose the Wilderness brand. I was not vegan at the time so I didn't even consider any other option. I think feeding a mix of vegan & meat is an interesting idea but I would still go in for the higher quality meat product for the health of my cats. I'll just figure out ways to reduce harm in other aspects of my life.
I completely agree! The higher quality cats foods are much better for your cat's health. Feeding your cats the crappy commercial cat foods may help save farm animals, but it will likely harm your cat overtime. Foods full of corn, wheat, and soy are not healthy for cats.
I can't wrap my head around that either. I'd never feed my cat that crap.
I adopted two cats before becoming vegetarian, and it happened at the same time: learning everything about cats and about becoming vegetarian. Then I rescued a third one. Now I'm transitioting to veganism, but I'm really on the same page as you. And it makes me feel guilty but at the same time responsible. I mean, cats were domesticated by us, had they been left alone in their natural environment we wouldn't even be having this discussion. However, by becoming pets the rely on us providing the best care we can. If that means giving them a meat based meal, then that is what we have to do. Again, I have (and will always have) mixed feelings about this. Great video though!!! I learned a lot. I don't have access yo any of thos veggie products in Peru, but will keep them in mind for future plans. Hope to keep on learning with your videos.
A vegan channel that isn't full of nonsense pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, and fallacious arguments? This channel is a unicorn.
No offence but forcing your animal to eat because of your ideals is cruel. Thankfully my vegan friend doesn't do that.
agree
I don't see why you object if the animal can be healthy. How is keeping an animal healthy cruel. "Because of your ideals", not wanting to unnecessarily support suffering? I do not understand why people have WANTING to cause suffering as an ideal and it's fine but when somebody doesn't want to unnecessarily cause harm there is something wrong.
That's a straw man argument. Who's advocating that? UV seems to be arguing that certain pets can live just as healthfully on a variety of diets. And if some of those diets cause others less suffering and death then that's obviously preferable, but the pet's health is paramount. Who could possibly argue with this?
Did you just not watch the video?
The pet doesn't care what it eats as long as it likes the food and it meets nutritional needs. Who cares what they are eating as long as they are healthy?
I got my at before going vegan. I never ever questioned feeding him anything other than high quality grain free cat food. Wouldn't jeopardize his health in any way. Obligate carnivore. That's that.
You realize that kibble is just as bad as vegan food right? There is no real meat in it. Raw is best.
Theres no good evidence that grain free food is better. Grain free diets usually just replace the grain with tapioca, potatos and such.
Video: "It's not clear that you can safely feed a cat a vegan diet, but there are several ways to reduce their meat consumption or take ethical considerations into account when feeding cats."
Comments: "CATS ARE CARNIVORES THEY HAVE TO EAT PREMIUM CAT FOOD END OF DISCUSSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
you can’t “reduce the meat consumption” of an OBLIGATE CARNIVORE. you are literally making your pet sick. the problem is that the diet she says she feed her cat is incredibly unhealthy and she’s talking on pet nutrition when she knows nothing about it
@@Swaggdub Yes you can. You do not understand what "obligate carnivore" means. It does not mean they cannot safely consume plant products. Every commercial kibble has plant-based ingredients. It means that there are nutrients (in cats' case, one particular protein) which they need and cannot be found in any plant product. So long as they are getting the minimum amount of meat needed to meet that nutritional need, the rest of their diet can be plant-based.
You are the voice of reason in the vegan community :)
I highly doubt that... but if that's your opinion.
UV is the voice of reason. TVC is the TMZ of the vegan community. u.u
Haha, exactly, interesting comparison :D
***** -- LoL. xD
Alex Winter We can agree to disagree :)
Just get a rabbit.
They are not very smart compared to cats and dogs. : ( It is more like a pet for a 5 y.o.
+1Ophelia18 they get smarter with time.
It shouldn't matter how smart an animal is. That is actually a really cruel thing to say. All animals deserve love.
xosecox12 I don't think it's a cruel thing to say. I am not hurting an animal in any way by saying this. Speaking of humans I won't date an idiot, for example. It doesn't mean that all humans don't deserve love. All humans and animals deserve love. And for the same reason I won't have a rabbit, cos I don't find the interaction with this animal as interesting and fulfilling as with a dog. It doesn't mean that rabbits don't deserve love. I'm sure there are people who love rabbits more than cats or dogs.
1Ophelia18 Intelligence isn't as important as kindness, compassion, and respect in humans. That is a very superficial point of view. If you don't want to get a rabbit that's fine but don't discourage others who want one over something so superficial. I had a rabbit and even if she wasn't as intelligent as a cat she was litter box trained, cuddly, playful, sweet, and happy. That's all that matters to me.
I don't understand. Why anyone would think that animals need to be vegan? I mean, no one would try and stop a bird from eating a worm. Honestly, sometimes it feels like people make this shit too complicated... Yes, some vegans do this for animal suffering, but I think it's important to realize that the goal is to not inflict (direct or indirect) suffering, not to completely eradicate. It's not possible, because some animals need to prey on other animals.
Oysters aren't such a great option either, unfortunately. An enzyme in oyster binds with and destroys thiamine in cats, though it doesn't in humans. I suppose this could be worked around with supplementation or something? I'm not a veterinary nutritionist, just a vet tech, so I'm not sure! There's also the issue of pollution to contend with, since oysters contain higher levels of heavy metals than other sources of animal protein.
Really nice video, btw. I struggle with the same ethical issues, but yes, my cats all eat animal products to some extent. So does my dog actually, since I can't find a vegan kibble she can eat enough of to meet her caloric needs. She expends 1300-1600 kcal per day, but won't eat more than about 2.5 - 3 cups of kibble a day no matter what I try. She lost about 6 lbs. on V-Dog before I gave up on that (the most calorically dense vegan dog food I could find.) I hope more options are available in time.
***** Mussels (and all seafood to an extent) contain domoic acid. It's a toxin produced by algae and eaten by sea life. It's neurotoxic in large quantities, even for humans, but can affect kidney function in cats in much lower quantities. I'm not sure where mussels generally come from, if they're farmed or caught from the ocean. Farmed fish (and I'm assuming mussels by extension) have absent or low levels of domoic acid depending on what feed is used. Fish based cat foods usually/should use farmed fish for that reason. I'm guessing that mussels would be fine as long as domoic acid levels are controlled, but of course I could be missing something. I'm not sure mussels have everything cats need protein wise, but I'm equally unsure why chicken is sufficient. I just don't know enough to say. I'll look into it some more though, see what I can dig up!
I wish I found you before I found Freelee and That Vegan Couple LOL never going back to them. Your logic is so sound and based on actual science.
Hello, first I want to say that I love your videos even though I'm vegetarian and not vegan. The thing that bothers me is when someone wants to force a vegan diet on an animal that is not normally vegan. When someone is vegan and wants to eat vegan that's their choice, but if your not giving a non vegan animal a choice that's cruel and unfair. Just because we CAN do something doesn't mean we SHOULD. Just because they make vegan animal food doesn't mean we should force it on them. In watching the video I noticed you discovered vegan is not the best for our dogs and cats, especially cats. The professionals even say dry kibble is not good for cats because it causes UT issues. I've had cats my whole life, and cats can be very picky when it comes to food, so I give mine a choice of a variety of healthy (meat based)can foods and they have lived long, happy lives. Like one girl said " for those who want to feed a vegan diet, buy a vegan animal like a rabbit, hamster,etc..".
DeeEll86442 I agree
It's better not to buy any animal, and adopt abandoned animals instead.
DeeEll86442 agreed! (Except with the “buy an animal” part. Always adopt, never buy)
It's literally a simulation...if it wants you to try to raise one vegan u do it. U need to step it up go vegan
I love how you're both rational and ethical. Great video! There's a lot I didn't know about cats being fed a vegan diet.
Really appreciate all the hard work you've clearly put into this! Thank you. Some great things to take into consideration when I adopt pets in the future :)
I have heard about science creating test tube meat. I say if that can get off the ground and be really affordable than that would be a great option for cats. It's not sentient since it's only muscle tissue and it can be "vegan" in all the ways that count. And since its lab made, it can be perfected nutritionally.
I also think this is a good idea. Unfortunately I really don't think all those people who freaked out over GMOs are going to let cultured meat fly. They are already in their garages sharpening their pitchforks.
Wasatch Jackalope You can't please everyone I suppose. But honestly, it's a great idea not just for cats but for people too. I mean, part of the issue with meat consumption is the environmental issues. But there are just people who will not give up bacon. If test tube meat can work and become mainstream, bacon lovers can eat bacon, environmental repercussions can be reduced or even eliminated and we can all be happy.
***** I'd thought it already got a lot cheaper, actually, but I could be wrong. But yeah, it's a great idea! It's a new industry with new jobs (for those that want to go into the sciences of course) and everyone really can be happy. It can be higher quality meat with none of the drawbacks for our companion animals and even for humans. I mean, imagine meat with FIBER! And no cholesterol! And no saturated fat! It'd be the best vegan meat ever lol "What's this? Oh, nothing, just some Salmon muscle tissue that I created and fortified with fiber, key vitamins and no mercury, no cholesterol, no saturated fat or cruelty. No big deal." *mind blown* :)
***** I guess if you want to get really strict, it's not, but the big reason for me to be vegan is ethical reasons. If there's no suffering associated with the product, than that's what's important. I don't know if I'd eat it myself, but I'd gladly feed it to my future kitty babies as long as it's fortified properly for optimal cat health.
UTIs and urinary obstructions are much more likely to occur if the cat is eating kibble, whether it's vegan or not. We should all consider that when we choose what to feed our cats and make sure they're getting at least some wet food every day!
Thanks for making this video, Swayze. I think your approach to this topic is very reasonable. I notice a lot of people have an all or nothing view on this - either their cat or dog is on a 100% vegan diet or 100% meat based diet, and either group thinks of the other as being idiotic or insane - there's no room for compromise or actual science.
Veganism is about reducing suffering to the best of your ability. It's not about obtaining absolute perfection (which is impossible) nor is it a contest to see who's lifestyle (or pet's lifestyle) is 100% vegan. I think if someone is a vegan with a non-vegan, or even partially vegan, pet, you are still reducing suffering in the world.
By the way, Sniff is an adorable old man! :)
If I had to go the meat route when it comes to feeding cats, I'd rather use "game" food for cats, which is a bit more expensive, than kibble derived from factory farm animals.
This cat lady I know says that you can't feed cats grains because it does something to their system. Not sure how true this is but it's worth looking into.
Definitely worth buying cats grain-free food.
The cat lady is right, NoirHammer, I had a cat get severely ill on that cheaper crap that includes grains and soy. That's not appropriate food for cats and they won't thrive on it.
If the point is to cause less harm, wouldn't feeding your cats biproducts of animals that are already going to be killed, be less harmful than getting game?
Listen to the cat lady.
I have two male indoor only cats, they eat raw liver. The vet says they are the healthiest cats they have seen. They are perfect weight, blood tests, energy and kitty hormones. I also have a water bottle bowl that I keep separate from the food area, as cats don't like they're food next to they're water. They think the food will contaminate the water. The livers are from local farms, not factory farms. I also keep pet rats which are fed a vegan diet. That may actually be the most morally questionable thing I do, because I feed the ones I don't lie to my three pythons. Nature works, I don't argue with evolution. If you are vegan and want cuddly fuzzy vegan pets, get a couple rats. They are social, smart, loving and can be trained like dogs can. They thrive on fresh fruits and vegetables, just make sure you research what is good for them to eat and what can kill them.
Cats and dogs are carnivores. Their bodies are absolutely meant for a carnivorous diet. Trying to impose humanistic morals, that sadly most human do not even possess, is ridiculous. If you're not willing to feed your cat or dog their biologically intended diet, you are abusing/neglecting the animal, and should not have it. Humans are herbivores/frugivores in denial. Cats and dogs are absolutely carnivorous.
"Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns."
Don't bring in the humans are herbivores argument in an otherwise fine argument.
Pet Nutritionist here. Dogs are actually omnivores kthx.
Make world Vegan Guess what else is "natural".
Cancer, earthquakes, cannabis, many types of toxin, e-coli and radiation.
Just because something is "natural" doesn't mean it is the best thing for you or your cat, and just because something isn't "natural" it doesn't mean that it is unhealthy.
I'd think that someone above the age of 14 would be well aware of this fact.
But if you're going to maintain your ridiculous notion that "unnatural" is bad, try living without your house for the rest of your life, after all, just think about the environmental problems of mining for limestone to make mortar for your walls. And while you're at it, lose your phones and computers since this is the byproduct of making them www.bbc.com/future/story/20150402-the-worst-place-on-earth
The reason I put "nature" in quotations is because humans are part of nature, we're neither above nor below it. Therefore, the things we created are natural. Yes, you could argue about the google definition saying "not made by humankind" but that would imply human excrements aren't natural, which they are.
So, I'm not going to respond negatively to your comments here. I'll just state that I hope you look at the 'real' science of plant based diets and human longevity (not the ones funded by the meat and dairy industry, which together are an over 1 trillion dollar a year industry in the US) and that you and your loved ones are able to make changes (if you so choose) to reverse any negative health effects - known, or unknown by you, and that you live a long and happy life.
Anonymouslives You also have to acknowledge that a lot of science in these fields is being driven by a vegan ideology as well. For example, studies into the general health of vegans are often inaccurate as vegans pay much more attention to what they are eating whereas the average meat eater doesn't pay much attention, which creates a correlation of vegan diet = healthy which isn't the full story. Frankly, a lot of foods are dangerous and being eaten regularly, and meat is nowhere near the worst of it. There's way too much bias in this sort of thing from either side. And honestly, I'd rather live a slightly shorter life eating the things I enjoy than a longer one with so many restrictions on my diet.
On your last video I was harassed so badly by someone that I had to block them all because I feed my cats meat. The thing is, I rescued my cat and she has hypercalcemia and was severely underweight. She was 4 pounds but should be 8 or 9 pounds. She needs a consistent diet right now so I don't have room to experiment with vegan foods she would like. I also don't feel comfortable experimenting with her diet when she's already sick and on medication. Her health and kidneys are sensitive enough as it is. I got called an idiot for this though and other mean names. Thank you for this responsible video.
Lol the cancer in this comment section tho. But regardless of my own diet,I will not force my cat to eat something that he won't naturally eat just because of ideals. I look at things in a reality point of view,if the cat was out on a stroll then he'd just hunt for a smaller animal to eat,same as a lion hunting for another animal to eat. Domestic cats are really just smaller versions of their bigger feline friends,and I'm fine with that because I've been a cat person for over 20 years and took care of dozens of them. Alot of vegans like to ignore the fact that bigger animals eat smaller animals ALL the time. What do people think sharks eat? They eat smaller fish,same for whales gulping up a very large amount of smaller fish at once.
When I saw how long the video was I thought there was no way I would watch it, but I ended up watching the whole thing! Great vid! Super informative, thank you!
I feel like you are missing a huge part if this discussion which is the impact cats have on wildlife - if you're worried about unnecessary suffering then all cats must be kept indoors, for the good of the cat and the local wildlife!
In the United States alone, outdoor cats kill approximately 2.4 billion birds every year. Although this number may seem unbelievable, it represents the combined impact of tens of millions of outdoor cats.
Would you advocate feeding rabbits or horses meat? Of course not. So why would you torture your cat or dog by feeding them grass and grains?
You want a great vegan pet? Get a tortoise. Eats grass, veggies, fruits, and flowers. Some species stay small, some get HUGE. Generally very personable after they've adjusted to people.
Cats are prone to uti and kidney issues bc of dry food. They cannot get enough hydration by drinking due to their origin as desert/tundra animals. They thrive on wet food... That provides the hydration that is more easily assimilated. Canned, dehydrated (and rehydrate), and Raw chubs are best. And i dont agree about the cheaper brands that use byproducts being better.... Byproducts are the scraps off the slaughter floors, thus the meat that isn't exactly healthiest. The brand that I trust most and is healthiest and cleanest is Evanger. I worked as a pet nutritionist at a natural pet store and the benefits experienced by switching to a higher quality brand was nothing short of amazing. Adding enzymes, probiotics, omega 3s, and a kelp multivitamin supplement provide added benefits as well.
As a vegan, I believe it's important we feed our furry friends their species specific diet. That being said, my dog loves fruits and veggies and I supplement his diet with significant sources of vegetation (he's thriving at 13 years old). My cat is super picky, as are most cats, and it's nearly impossible to find a healthy diet for him that he won't turn his nose up to! He's also thriving at 14 years old 😜 I do not feed kibble anymore, unless I run out of food or to add as an added treat. Evangers canned, natural variety raw, and sometimes dehydrated food is what we feed him, with loads of fruits and veggies to round out his diet. He gets more vegetation than meat, especially as he ages
That's just my experience, knowledge, and two cents on this.
Veggie Bee dry food is far from the cause of a UTI. Though wet food should be mixed into a cats diet regularly to help it thrive a completely dry food based diet should be absolutely fine for a cat as long as you have water available 24/7. Some cats are prone to UTI’s in which case I recommend a UTI centered dry food formula. I can’t remember the name at this moment but it comes in a real bag lol.
Nice explanation of this topic. I was personally done with adopting animals for quite awhile but unfortunately and fortunately a mom cat abandoned her kitten in our backyard and never came back for it. Well maybe she got hit by a car so maybe she didn't abandon it but it was stuck in our yard and after awhile of the mom not coming back we took the kitten in and have raised it. I wasn't looking to be a cat momma although I do love cats. My fear as a vegan was having to feed this kitten meat and the whole judgement thing from the vegan community. The kitty is a male and when I was researching I found out similar info that male cats on a vegan diet are more susceptible to get UTIs. So I have continued with the standard meat diet for my cat but now knowing more info I will def add a vegan cat brand to his diet. This video def relieved a bit of stress I was having about this topic and I will show this video to any people who question why I feed what I feed my cat.
Yet again, another incredibly well reasoned and educational video. Thank you!
Hey, I know this video's like three years old, but I just want to tell you how much I appreciate your thorough, rational approach to vegan diets. I've had my female cat for as long as I've been vegan (6 years) and I've only ever fed her meat-based kibbles with some wet food occasionally. I'm curious about reducing the amount of meat in her diet, but I'm also on a fixed income and all of these brands are prohibitively expensive. As much as I don't want to support Nestle Purina, I kinda have no choice until vegan cat foods become cheaper and more readily available.
Cats and dogs can't be vegan because being vegan is an ethical choice. They can be plant based maybe, but they don't possess the ability to make choices like that. My cat eats meat and he will continue to. He's very old and my best friend ;__; I don't want to risk his health because of my moral concerns. If there was a vegan catfood that was really really great and it was shown that cats can absolutely thrive on it, I would try it out but I dont feel like its there
The oldest dog in the world eats a vegan diet. So it can be done. I wouldn't risk it with a cat though.
xValetinax It can be done, but not just any animal can handle this diet. And if your animal is used to eating meat, you can't simply switch its diet to vegetables, it's dangerous. So if you do try to make your dog vegan, start young, but if it can't handle it you should give it meat. And cats, well, they should eat meat and NOT be vegan.
My thoughts on this if we are supposed to be herbivores and dogs and cats are supposed to be omnivores and carnivores why stop them from being that.
Because some people want a Vegan World. They don't look at science, they base their decisions on emotion. They'd rather kill a cat than feed it a proper diet.
+The Potato industry ! No but thousands of veterinarians are. As is the damning lack of proof showing cats will live a healthy life on a Vegan diet.
Nope, most pet food is made with the rests of farm animals, most of them are not killed for that, they're already dead
No but logic does. don't force your believes on animals.
By vegans not parenting cats and dogs that is another life that is euthanized. I rescued both of my cats and my dog. I am okay with feeding them what they are supposed to eat.
i have to admit i was feeding my 2 Maltese a vegan diet ,but i just did not work out as i hoped
i tried various formulation of home cooking , like lentils , sweet potatoes, peas, chickpeas coconut , flax,cranberries , blueberries.....and moore
both ended up with yeast overgrowth what led to ear infections , foot chewing , chronic digestive problems
it took me 6 months and 3500.00 to correct that
they don't tolerate carbohydrates in large amounts , they both had very high liver enzymes and pancreatitis...very scary
they now get a raw dehydrated diet based lower protein 24% human grade hormone free with some pumpkin and other low starch veggies, plus a canin probiotic
dogs do not have the same dental structure as herbivorous, their teeth in the back do not have flat tops that help grind fibrous foods, witch leads to poor absorption of nutrients
if feeding veggies make sure they are in a puree form
not all dogs do well on a plant based diet
Thank you for your response to this video, vegan for life. I recently adopted a Shih Tzu/Maltese and was wondering how he would respond to a vegan diet. Definitely going to reconsider!
I’m glad that you realized how unhealthy a biologically inappropriate diet is for your pets, though I’m sorry it took so long. I think the best way to advocate for animals is to make sure they’re truly getting what they need (rather than inhumanely forcing our emotional ideology on them) and ensure that any farmed animals are humanely treated and sustainably farmed. Your dollar has enormous power, and the best thing you can do for your pet is make sure that their meat consumption is limited to sources where the animals are healthy and well-treated to help shift the animal farming industry into a less harmful direction. This is what I feed my dog: www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/freeze-dried-raw-dinners
thank you for uploading this! It's been on my mind lately
Honestly, as a vegan, I personally think that forcing an animal to go vegan is just cruel and unethical. I saw that this girl tried to make her snake vegan after she went vegan. If you want a vegan animal get a rabbit or a hamster or an iguana. Don't get an animal that is carnivorous by nature, like cats dogs and snakes, and then make it go vegan. You're just hurting the animal
Dogs are carnivores they are omnivores and can be healthy without meat. In fact the oldest living dog is vegan.
I LOVE that you made this video!!! You actually listen to your subs, we appreciate that!!! Thank you for covering this topic :) My favorite vegan youtuber, rock on!!
SNIFF YOU LIL KING
Hi Unnatural Vegan,
Thanks for the balanced and informative video. I would just like to add something to what you have said regarding the link between food and increased risk of UTIs, bladder or kidney problems. There is also a link between feeding dry food (vegan, non vegan and all price ranges) and urological problems due to lack of moisture content. This is because cats tend to have a low thirst reflex because when eating their entire prey, a lot of moisture would be gained from the food itself. Some cats seem to adjust and drink more water with a low moisture diet, and others less so. Of course dehydration leads to less diluted urine which increases risk of infection or blockage.
Many cat owners, (myself included) also try to avoid feeding wet or dry food that contains grains, cereal or soy as these are common intolerances in felines. Use of these ingredients is common in foods across price ranges to bulk it up so it's really worth checking ingredients to avoid them.
Why is it so hard for vegans to embrace the concept of mitigation? Why are we all such utopian idealists? There are vegans who argue we shouldn't kill bugs. Then they get in their car and drive to the next vegan festival, slaughtering insects the entire trip. We cry foul that palm oil production is destroying animal habitat from our massive suburban sprawl. Any vegan who has chosen to believe they aren't contributing to the destruction of nature on some level is delusional. Yet, we refuse to acknowledge it and agree that we're never going to reach the utopia. Our very existence is an insurmountable obstacle to it. We refuse to compromise on the possibility that being a good vegan might mean accepting that the destruction of nature can only be mitigated. But the moment you suggest mitigation, you're the enemy. I honestly believe veganism will never go much beyond where it is now until it becomes a movement of mitigation.
I agree with some of what you say, but there's a difference between intentionally killing something and the unavoidable killing of things as you go about your day.
@@Lilyanna298 If someone were to kill you, would you care about the intent?
Ellie If someone was to accidentally kill me or someone I loved that would be different than if they killed on purpose. For example if someone accidentally hit me with their car while driving safely that would be totally different than if they intentionally ran me down.
oh my... my female cat got sick a year ago, from fatty liver from feeding her cheaper brands of cat food... she almost died, they put a catheter n her neck and I had to feed her every 3 hours with a syringe. She survived but now I have to feed her a premium brand to keep her healthy. :(
BTW I know this sounds like the typical excuse people use for not being vegan, but I am vegan, I adopted my cats 4-5 years ago, been vegan for over one year, and in this situation, it is true lol, I can´t feed my female cat other food, and my other cat is a male.
When I asked my vet about food brands she gave me a good analysis of the nutrition and told me that most of the brands contain too much fat in correlation with the nutrient content, and that fatty liver is a consecuence, so she recomended me a good brand avalabe in my country and a supplement to mix it with rice. So yeah, cheap brands are fatty for taste but not healthy.
What brand do you use now?
I give them Hills, used to give them whiskas.
Exactly, I used to feed them whiskas, they loved it, it had a lot of fat so t was like a human eating fries every day... now I feed them hills. Funny they told you to feed yours rice, I´ll ask my vet about it.
I don't get vegans keeping carnivorous animal on one hand and on the other hand telling humans to stop eating meat because it is bad...
I hope you at least let your cat stay in your house so it won't kill any animals outside. Cats hunt just for fun.
crazyants.de yeah because they're not vegan man. They're CATS
You can't see the difference between a cat who cannot change their nature hunting and a human being who can make a choice, doesn't need to eat meat confining and killing animals in a way that takes food away from other humans and greatly damages the environment? It's natural for a cat to hunt. It may even hurt the environment if they didn't since it could lead to overpopulation of their prey. Whereas human's have the teeth of herbivores so it's not natural for them to eat meat and us eating meat leads to less clean water, more deforestation & more polluted air due to the environmental damage of keeping livestock (look it up if you don't believe me).
Thank you for taking the time to do the research on this topic, I think for many vegans who have pets it has been a burning question.
Vegans who can't deal with the fact that their carnivorous pets need to be fed meat have 2 simple options:
A: Get meat from free range all organic small farms where live stock is treated well. (That would also support such farmers).
B: Don't own carnivorous pets.
But but but you want to anyway and feed it vegan food? Well, then deal with the fact that sensible people will call you an animal abuser (which is ironic, because the fight against animal abuse is most vegans trademark no. 1).
Free range is a con. Most free range is just as cruel as factory farmed meat. The kindest way to get meat is to hunt it yourself or find roadkill. I would never feed a cat a vegan diet as while there are cats that are fine on it I wouldn't risk it. However the oldest dog in the world is vegan so to say that is cruel is ridiculous.
Really interesting thanks. I have 2 kittens both female. Currently both on meat diet. I am now switching between whiskers and “carny” (kitten type) However I’m researching making them 50% vegan maybe when they are older because I can’t see anything on research for kittens. My question is would your advice be any different for kittens? And secondly you mentioned the cheaper cat food is better because By-Product but do you think the fact that it comes from factory farms and is likely”4D meat” (dead, dying diseased, drugged) means it is not so safe for them to eat compared to the premium food? Also is the byproduct excuse even valid since we know from leather etc in fact the concept of byproduct is way exaggerated. In fact every bit of the animal is “monetised” and everything therefore adds together to raise the value of killing them. Feeling conflicted.
What about feeding snakes a vegan diet?
No
Not sure if serious...
+LinkEX People have snakes as pets the person can be seriou ;-;
It's Complicated
I know, my cousin has one.
What I meant was that it seems even more outlandish to imagine a snake eating _(anything)_ vegan compared to a cat or a dog.
I was so excited for this video - thank you SO much for the plethora of information
Not even my hamster is vegan. He needs protein from dried worms and yoghurt.
A lot of pet foods aren't made with animals raised specifically for pet food. Even highish quality pet foods are made from all the extra bits from the human foods or from animals raised for human consumption but are not fit(died in the field, got sick ect). If your cat does best on high quality pet foods, don't feel bad.
Hmm.
Wondering how you feel about traces of pet euthanasia drugs (euthanized pets themselves), and flea collars being found in cheaper brand cat foods like Friskies. That's something that doesn't sit well with me.
Thats why I never buy those crappy brands. They contain too many grains while cats need meat.
I agree...i get her point but I wouldn't feed my cat food from a grocery store. My cat is sick and feeding a sick cat Friskies is like feeding a sick child McDonalds in my opinion.
***** It's not the fact that the drug was previously used on the (now dead) animal that's the issue. It's the fact that we are feeding our pets food that contains a substance which kills animals.
Could you please share with me under what circumstances the industry would use euthanasia drugs on cows, pigs, and chickens? To my knowledge, that isn't a standard practice.
The whole thing is just a catch 22.
My dog is vegan. My cats are about 25% - 50% vegan (depending on the cat). I have a male cat with bladder issues. One of my other cats is allergic to almost everything including chicken, salmon, and tuna. It gets difficult. I'm only asking because I want to do the best I can. 3 of my cats eat a combination of a home made (supplemented) vegan cat food, and a "higher end" commercial cat food. My 4th cat eats a premium cat food because of her alleges, and I don't really have the option to feed her anything else unless I decide I'm okay with her always being sick, and her hair falling out. Just not sure what else I can do.
+The Pagan Vegan if your cat has bladder issues it may be from pea protein. Pea protein causes bladder and kidney stones in cats.
For someone who is normally so logical, it is concerning to me how much logic is lost in this video.
I have serveral points to cover:
*Why is it that if someone owned a snake, spider or hawk, no one would question feeding them a carnivorous diet, but cats, also being obligate carnivores, have their dietary needs thrown to the wayside? Cats have been fed a species inappropriate diet for so long, that cat owners and veterinarians alike seem brainwashed to the fact that the majority of 'cat food' is absolutely inappropriate to feed in the first place.
*As most vegans know, fresh whole foods are better than processed foods. There is a reason it is not recommended to eat meal bars every day for every meal. It would make eating vegan very easy, but would not be healthy. Again, why is it that vegan pet owners think processed dry vegan spheres are healthy for their carnivorous cats? Why do they think that a diet that is only 'complete' because ten powders were added is healthy? It breaks all the rules about what we Know is healthy.
*On top of everything else, because they are obligate carnivores, eating vegetables, grains and fruits actually does hurt them. It irritates their digestive tract and strains their pancreas.
If you can't stomach feeding meat to your carnivore, I would recommend not getting one.
You obviously didn't watch the whole video. She says that she does feed her cat meat and recommends other cat owners do the same.
The wolf girl Anneka Svenska is a vegan herself. She keeps wolves and high content wolfdogs. She feeds her wolves raw meat. Not dog food and not vegan. Her argument is that if you take on responsibility for a carnivore you have an ethical responsibility to give that carnivore what it’s body needs. So her wolves get raw meat and that’s the only meat on her property.
It's fucked up to give a cat a vegan diet.
This is hands down the best information that I have gotten when it comes to this topic. It is the most frustrating topic in my opinion when it comes to veganism because it hinders the idea that everyone could be vegan one day. It’s not black and white and I 100% agree with everything you said. When I first became vegan I asked this question to a certain popular TH-cam channel (I won’t say any names) and they responded with “yes, your cat can be vegan and there is vegan cat food available”. I find that very irresponsible. Fortunately I didn’t just take their word for it and have been doing my own research on the topic. The way you feed your cat seems like the best option that we have right now and I am going to start doing the same! I luckily have two female cats so I might move towards 50/50 diet and work slowly from there. I am definitely willing to donate towards a well balanced cat food with oysters/worms. That would be great! Thank you for this video! This is the video I will share to people who feel confused on this topic.
I am vegan myself, eating and living fully plant based. But I feed my cats high quality commercial meat kibble and the occasional wet food where you can actually identify the kind of meat in them. I've had my cats on Friskies, and my oldest one didn't handle it well, so I went over to "proper" food for them both. Now their stool is stable, their fur is thick and soft, and my oldest one is losing weight and doesn't throw up as often.
If I cared more (it sounds horrible when saying it this way, I know) I'd just never get a predator pet again but rather get naturally vegan animals. I sure wouldn't mind a bunny and/or guinea pig ^^
rats are omnivores but live pretty well vegan and they are soooo sweet. like tiny dogs.
+Carlie Flowers Cats are considered obligate carnivores.
Bunnies are hard to care for if you need to keep them in a cage, not being morbid but you should wait until your cats pass if you want a bunny, so you can let them roam around the house or a specific room. A lot of people let their bunnies roam free, but I can't imagine it, they poop so much.
+vanilla vegan Actually I have cats and bunnies, and they get along just fine. As for the pooping issue of free range bunnies, we (and most bunny owners) don't have that problem because they designate their cage as their pooping space and only use the bathroom there. When they get scared they might let out a little tiny turd or two but nothing a vacuum won't clean. I would suggest asking someone with a rabbit if you can introduce them (under strict supervision) and see how your cat reacts. If it shows signs of aggression, a rabbit may not be the best choice. Our cats and Bunnies get along great and actually cuddle with each other often.
Vanilla Vegan you can litter train rabbits. mine sleep with me at times and don't shit anywhere
Thank you for doing all this research and showing us the sources so we can make up our own minds!
My cat lives both inside and outside my house. It's a healthy strong female not unnaturally confined to a house and the offspring of a pure breed cat and a non pure, so her genetics is better than a pure breed. I will never try to stop her hunting birds, mouses, etc. Nor I will stop other cats to kill their offspring. We can be vegan and all, but leave nature alone.
sorry but domestic cats aren't part of any ecosystem.
Pffft. Ecosystem is just a word, a human creation, like yard or playpen or space. So, you've decided that cats aren't part of any ecosystem, but other animals are. You are not using the word like most people do. If a cat is in the ecosystem, it is part of the ecosystem. That may sound simplistic, but that's because it is a simplistic concept. You are simply applying some ... ideal that an ecosystem must be balanced and that anything that disrupts that balance isn't part of the ecosystem. A disruptive element to an ecosystem is still part of the ecosystem. The Earth can be described as a huge ecosystem. Are you going to tell us that cats aren't part of the Earth's ecosystem? An ecosystem isn't a biological community to our liking; it is a biological community as observed. So, put a cat in an environment, and like it or not, it is now part of that environment's ecosystem. Sure, we can interfere in the interactions within the ecosystem, to "balance it", but then that just makes us part of the ecosystem. So, if you had said, cats disrupt the ecosystems into which they interact, that would have made more sense.
Heh. You just can't admit that you used the concept incorrectly, can you? Are you saying then, I ask again, that cats aren't apart of the Earth's ecosystem? You said they aren't part of any ecosystem. Just admit you made an error. What a baby.
Beyonce Bennett Mine is.
I know it's hard, but it won't kill you to admit you used the term incorrectly. You can aggrandize the concept all you wish, you still used the word incorrectly. But go on, keep introducing new concepts to bury your error under. But for the hell of it, how the fuck do you not see how stupid your consternation over a cat "wrecking" the ecosystem is? You're focused on the destruction caused by a cat while you cause far, far greater destruction of the environment. Think about all the things you do in a single day that wrecks your precious local ecosystem. You're a fucking hypocrite, dude. Wake the fuck up.
You seem to be the only Vegan TH-camr that I have found that doesn't come from a seat of psudeo science. Thank you for presenting intelligent, clear infomation about what appears to be a drama filled, murkey lifestyle.
I stopped reading the comments when I read that we are supposed to be herbivores XD
It's actually visible by pour teeth that we're not. If you look at a cats or a dogs teeth, you see that they aren't either, but in difference to them we at least have teeth to chew stuff with.
Sorry to randomly answer to your comment, but you seemed quite sane...
knuffelmuff
That's truth. :) we have less devolved canines and teeth to chew stuff with. Its very similar to certain species of other primates. Primates with an omnivore diet.
+T Robertson that's not true carnivores can also develop arteriosclerosis when on a carbohydrate rich diet which already counters your argument.
lmfao I know right!!!
***** onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1939-1676.2003.tb02469.x/abstract;
ac.els-cdn.com/S0021997509003983/1-s2.0-S0021997509003983-main.pdf?_tid=d4df9a82-37d2-11e6-a923-00000aab0f01&acdnat=1466529113_46bea261e0f769406ad087c87ef74b2c;
Loool
I appreciate the time and effort you went through to make this video. I don’t think a lot of people watched it all the way through, unfortunately. My one issue is that I am afraid cheaper wet cat food has too much filler and stuff that my cat can’t use anyway. Thanks for this video tho! It made me think. 😀 I also REALLY appreciate your note about Sniff’s youthful appearance and the possible correlation folks might be tempted to draw between that and his current diet.
If the idea is to reduce suffering, you should strive to make sure your pet does not live in agony by placing human restrictions on their diet.
The problems the food brands you find at the groceries store, is that you can't really know what's in it, most of the time the essential ingredients are very low quality(proteins, carbs, fat, vitamin and minerals) and they can be bad for your pet's overall health. These companies will use the cheapest carbs, fat and meat they can find, it could be beef and the next week it could be pork, chicken or a combination of multiple things. Feeding whiskas, Iams, freeskies etc to your cat is like feeding McDonald's to a child.
I don't think that feeding your cat with a combination of low quality food and vegan cat food, just to make you feel better, is in the best interest for your cat. If vegans want to feed vegan food to there pets, they should get a rabbit or a Guinea pig
I cant believe if people do that. Dont force your beliefs onto your frikken pet!
Hani or your kids....
Vera Nika well don’t you think a kid should choose themselves? Like feeding your kids animal products without them being able to choose themselves isn’t forcing your beliefs on them?
As long as they can be healthy on it and the owners are taking all the proper extra care an animal needs on a vegan diet, I actually don't see a problem with it. I mean if you have a male cat then you def. need to be giving at least the recommended 25-75% of their diet as meat but for dogs and female cats, it seems to be quite doable in a healthy way for these animals. As long as their health is not sacrificed over one's morals, I have no problem with it and I'm not even vegan.
Cats are carnivores. Their whole body is heading to meat. I don’t get fighting against animal cruelty, but be cruel to your pets. In nature a cat would eat a mouse or a little bird... the only vegan about it, is the stomach contents of the prey animal, that would be about 5% of a cats diet. Not more ! I barf my cats, so I give them raw meet with a little bit of carrot or other vegetables... and yes, you have to supplement taurin, but you wouldn’t if you would give your cats whole mouses or stuff like that. I can’t get outside and catch a mouse vor my cats, that’s why I have to supplement taurin. Feeding your cat a vegan diet is just unnatural. Don’t get a carnivore as pet if you are uncomfortable with this!
you should always put your pets health and well being over your own personal morals. you should never put your cat on a vegan diet thats just selfish if you do. its good that you have done a lot of research on this however, what gives a human the right to project their morals on a pet that depends on them to take care of them. we should be giving them the diet that is natural to them.
As a dog trainer with very large interest in dog behaviour and diet I very much disagree with a vegan diet for dogs. Not only do dogs digest meats best, they also require bone and marrow. Being healthy is not the same as optimal health, and in reality most main brand dog foods actually don't contain the needed amount of nutrition for optimal health either so if you wish to be providing your dog with the best diet you must do your research properly. While yes they may be relatively healthy, a responsible owner should be looking to provide optimal not adequate diet as not only does this lead to healthy issues but behavioural issues also.
We must respect the needs of animals, and synthetic supplements do not work as well as naturally found nutrients especially in a less complex digestive system such as dogs and cats. The reality is that most owners in general do not know what their animals require and think a named brand guarantees that, so therefore I find it highly unlikely that most vegan owners understand fully the dietary needs of their pets and will also rely on a brand to guarantee this. No single brand has a perfect diet, and education before being responsible for a pet is required. Not to mention the lack of knowledge over allergies such as to grains, certain veg, certain meats etc which also need to be taken into consideration and diet reformed for them.
Cats are hypercarnivores. They. cannot. digest. plantmatter.
Nice video Swayze. Just one thing: Taurine is not an amino acid. While it does have an amino group, it is not chemically an amino acid, but rather an organic acid, more specifically a sulfonic acid derived from cysteine (which is a 'real' amino acid).
Give an 8 - 10 week kitten an apple and rabbit meat. If the kitty will eat an apple an play with the meat, you can feed him a vegan diet.
Former vet tech here... feel free to talk to your vet about prescribing your cat a urinary tract support food or supplement. My cat gets a Rx food from Hills called Metabolic + Urinary (cuz my cat can also get a little chonky) and it’s as easy as literally just feeding him one scoop of that with his breakfast. Doc says he’s good and always kinda freaks at how healthy he is. Going to be 10 years old this month
Ami is an Italian company and such a response is more than typical for Italians. Like really, I have contacted quite a few Italian companies in the past - mostly cosmetics to ask questions and the responses were ALWAYS like that. They never directly answer your question or give valuable info - they always into "hey pal, all is fine! don't worry! we understand you" =))))
You ask questions from English, German, Estonian companies - and you get answers, you ask questions from Italian companies - and you get to chat =)
I am all for finding a way to get cats the proper nutrition without harming other animals, but the potential problems I see are that a) grains are really terrible for cats, I feed my cats premium food not because of the meat but because grains are low down on the ingredient list, and b) cats should be getting the majority of their water from the foods they consume not from drinking water, and I image that vegan wet food would be incredibly expensive, especially without grains.
most commercial pet foods are garbage, and the aafco is a joke.
I'm glad you started narrating topics, it's so much easier to concentrate now :D Thank you for the research
you dont really talk about dogs. maybe make a video on this topic about dogs
In the first few years when I went vegan I had a very strict approach towards never ever under any circumstance buying animal products, and would be absolutely devastated if I accidentally did buy something that had milk in it or leather. Lately I think I have chilled out a bit and have embraced the idea that veganism is about minimising as much as possible our contribution towards the cruelty of animals. For example I no longer care if I or anyone else buys leather as long as it is second hand as this doesn’t increase the demand for leather and you are not supporting the industry. It is probably also ethically better to buy a second hand leather product over a brand new synthetic product (that will just end up in land fill eventually anyway). I also used to stress about getting a dog or cat because then I would have to buy meat for them, but I really now think that if you are buying those off cuts that are still good but that humans won’t eat then they are just a byproduct and as far as I am aware, are not increasing the demand for meat products. I think Gary yourofsky made a similar statement as well. We need to tackle the bigger issues and not stress so much about the minuscule inconsequential issues. Idk I think maybe we don’t have to be 1000% militant to be making practically the same impact anyways.
...this is all great and all but you're only taking into the account your happiness, not the pets. This video really just endorses the fact that vegans should only have vegan pets. That includes omnivorous pets that "can" live on a vegan diet but wouldn't normally like dogs who though an omnivore still lean towards the carnivorous side of the spectrum. Another thing, any dog owner that only feeds their dog basic dry dog food and nothing else is doing it wrong and shouldn't be a dog owner. Dogs have needs and if people can't do proper research they should stick to goldfish.
Also didn't you do this video like a year ago or something?
How does a video telling people they should give their cats meat even if they are vegans endorse the idea that vegans should only have vegan pets. As far as dogs leading towards being carnivores what are you basing this on? The oldest dog in the world eats only plants. Dogs can actually be healthier without meat and research shows this. Also fish can have very specific needs so if people can do research they definitely shouldn't get fish.
Thank you for this. This was a fantastic video, very comprehensive and balanced.I no longer have a cat (mine died a few years ago, before I went vegan) but since I am vegan I have thought about this issue quite a bit and I'm glad you mentioned using butchers scraps/offal/sawdust, because I have thought that would be a good idea for a while. I would not enjoy going into the butchers to collect and prepare it, but its a lesser of 2 evils type situation. Dang, the other comments are not good, never read the comments they say and they are right. Keep up the good work!
Thank god I don't have any pets, so I don't have to worry about this shit.
I have no plans to make my cat a vegan. I won't be getting another cat when she dies. My dog is vegan and super healthy
"do I trust you guys?...no" xD aww =D you are so honest and awesome and yeah...lets be real here! its hard, If you have the time/money/willpower - go for it! If you are not sure - dont do it! be responsible
I think you're video is very informative and in depth and have watched the full video and taken your research on board. My question is though, how does buying non-vegan pet food, reduce animal suffering? I don't believe it does. How can we justify buying pet food? i understand you say for female cats buy 50% vegan food, but isn't that only reducing our contribution to animal suffering through pet food by half, compared to non-vegans who buy their pets cat food. I'm a little confused on this issue.
It is a heartbreaking reality. My sister is a veterinarian and she has so many horror stories that she and her colleagues have witness about cats and dogs eating a vegan diet and getting horrendous and fatal side effects. :'(
Sarah Rosenfelder How many is that? Why aren't those stories all over the Internet?
Damian Eadie I promise you it’s very common. I guess cats and dogs can live Vegan but they won’t thrive like they do in meat. Basically every patient I’ve seen that’s attempted to simulate a vegan diet did it incorrectly and ended up hurting their animals. There’s many ways to harm an animal through a badly done vegan diet and it happens more than you’d like to believe. I’d like to say about once a month I find a case like this.
Actually the oldest living dog is vegan. Dogs CAN be healthy on a Vegan diet.
xValetinax it was the third oldest actually, but a badly planned vegan dog diet can kill it and cats basically will drop dead if you don’t have atleast a majority meat diet