Given after 4 full seasons of development the fact with Sato comfortably made 107% in the races with that car shows that car had a really decent chassis
It was a policy of Tom's Wakinshaw Arrows - to build cars too good for their budget and try to make some points. So it was ironic that it gave any results, after Arrows filed the bankruptcy.
According to F1 folklore, one of the Arrows cars ended up being part of an airport display, only to be removed and pressed back into service with a team after being bought.
It's said that the one Yuji drove is the airport car thus he was having so miserable performances(though he's unarguably bad as it was). They were basically a one-car team.
I have heard the story of this car before, but I never realized the whole Super Aguri team was basically Arrows rejoining the grid under a different name (and of course with new ownership) following a 3 year hiatus.
It wasn't, thats a dumb claim. Most of the personnel moved over from Honda or were recruited from elsewhere. Factories capable of housing an F1 team don't exactly grow on trees and take years to build, so moving into a pretty much up to date, abandoned facility to get a team up and running quickly makes sense.
@@andrewcarter9649Original comment is not 100% accurate but what I think Nathan is trying to say is that Super Aguri was formed from Arrows IP (i.e. the cars… and some equipment). It’s interesting to hear that Stoddart decided against operating the A23 (or an upgrading A23) in 2003.
Other fun fact: insiders say that the famous double diffuser and bulk of the ideas for the 2009 car (that would give Brawn and Button their championship after Honda withdrew/sold the team to Brawn) was developed by an ex-Super Aguri skunkworks that Honda kept on the books after Super Aguri was wound up. When you think that at least some of those guys would've been ex-Arrows (as the video describes), it's a nice 'redemption arc' for sure.
I miss Stoddart. He was constantly bashing FIA and advocating for budget caps. The only thing I regret is Minardi participation in the 2005 US GP, although Paul was in favor of race cancelation
He didn't want to race but told his drivers to follow the Jordans, hoping they'd pull into the pits. Jordan and Minardi were fighting for 9th and 10th in the championship, and the money that went with it, so racing the Jordans was the only chance they had of scoring points that season. If Eddie was still in control of the team, I don't think Jordan or Minardi would've taken to the grid.
He went on a tirade of blind rage in an interview with a Dutch reporter during the race, after they gave him permission to swear on live television. He really was not happy with the situation and wanted to have the race cancelled. Of course that’s in part because he knew the Minardis would not likely beat the Jordans in a six-horse race, and that the resulting points gap would be too great to overcome for the rest of the season.
The Arrows car used to always be in the top of the speed traps, so it was quick it just lacked downforce, that’s probably why it was able to stay relevant with the newer aero updates.
Apples to oranges. LMP2 was meant to have new cars for 2021 but covid scrapped that and after delay after delay instead will only get new cars in 2028 which is one year before LMH/LMDh regs expire which USE the chassis of those '21 P2s we never got.
Thanks for your interesting videos. I haven't seen any of yours before, but I've watched a few over the last couple of days and now, because i have enjoyed them so much I will subscribe 👍. Thanks again
To be fair to the 1997 Lola, we don't know how bad it was.Life,Onyx, Brabham in the80s/90s, Andrea Moda,all are objectively awful Lola's T97/30, it was rushed and at the behest of MasterCard and never meant to run a year before it should have and only ever ran in one session, IIRC
Takuma Sato couldn't quite keep pace with Button, but he was a pretty amazing driver. I forget the exact timeline, but the time it took him to get from Karting to F1 was but a fraction of the time for the typical F1 driver (something ridiculously short... like 2 years???). If he had been groomed from a younger age who knows... His success was no fluke including his Indy 500 win. And comparing him to Button... Button kept Lewis Hamilton honest (and kind of sort of outperformed him... at times). And Lewis is a generational talent. Hamilton > Verstappen. There... I said it... anyways... Sato was a pretty badass driver but he's often compared to drivers with far more experience and whom were also top tier talent. Barichello also got beaten by his teammates but he was still top 1/4 (easily!!) of the F1 grid throughout the majority of his career.
He started with karting at 19 in 1996 after a brief career in cycling as a kid. Then he went to single seater cars in 1998. Eddie Jordan said that he when he raced for him he was very fast but he didn't knew the reason why. Always apologetic when he crashed, the kind of guy you can't be mad at him when he stood in front of you.
I'm sorry but the 1975 312T and 1978 312T3 were already completely different cars. Add the 1979 ground-effect T4 and there is basicly no relationship between them except the engine.
Yep, ferrari model codes of the time will usually refer to the engine and in this case the gearbox too. 3 litre 12 cylinder Transverse gearbox. Completely different cars outside of the engines.
Sato didn’t get dumped by Honda because he was slower than Button, it was. because Button didn’t honor a contract he had with Frank Williams to go back to Williams, Honda was put in a bad position they had already signed Rubins so they had to choose between the two, Button was was the star so he got the seat and Honda moved heaven and earth to keep Sato in F1 by setting up Super Aguri. Honda did the honorable thing while Button showed that he wasn’t a man of his word. I find it strange that every time a Japanese manufacturer has a fast Japanese driver in their car they never have faith in him and go with some supposedly faster white guy, Honda did it to Sato and Toyota did it to Kobayashi, it took Glock breaking his leg for the to give their countrymen a chance and he shined, unfortunately Toyota quit at the end of the season.
I raise you the winning car at the 24 hours of Le Mans in '96 and '97, which was a TWR-Jaguar-Mazda-Joest-Porsche. And i'm not talking about a car model, or a design on paper. I mean an actual chassis manufactured by TWR raced as a work car for both Jaguar and Mazda, before winning Le Mans twice as a Porsche.
You mentioned the anti dilution fee. However back then it was not an anti dilution, you got the money back plus interest during your first season of racing. It was just a fee to guarantee another Mastercard Lola fiasco didn't happen again
That‘s right, from 2011 onwards I think. Paul Stoddart also kept one of the cars for himself in Minardi colors. Another one went into private hands and was sold just recently.
I don’t find either car particularly iconic tbh. Sure they were both fast, dominant cars, but not anywhere near as legendary and awe-inspiring as the MP4/4 or F2004 were.
Video of Jos Verstappen testing the Minardi PS04/Arrows A23 at Mugello on Septemper 16, 2003: th-cam.com/video/9bRxwuvV-Is/w-d-xo.htmlsi=kcGlgoBSuUB5ilAF
2:25 - What kind of message would it send to the Minardi development team to ditch their car and use LAST years model of a competitors car ? ANSWER: You are all BS at what you do to have a last years model of a competitors car work better than your current design.
Not quite. The message would have been: With more money and better equipment we could do that also. What they did was just copy/pasting the parts which were good, and bring them on their car without development costs. Win/Win situation. That fact was completly missing in this video. It was a nice move from Stoddart, he just bought the cars, which were much cheaper than windtunnel hours and development. And he was able to resell them, so well played.
Please do a video essay on monster jam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@TheGalantHamburger It basicly was still the same chassis. The changes were made due to regulation needs, the car or the monocoque was never a complete rebuild. It was just like an upgrade, chassis still was the same.
Given after 4 full seasons of development the fact with Sato comfortably made 107% in the races with that car shows that car had a really decent chassis
It also shows that Takuma Sato is a much better driver than he is usually given credit for.
@@Pabig93sato was fast but he has caused some massive accidents especially in IndyCar. But he was great at the Indy 500 as well.
It was a policy of Tom's Wakinshaw Arrows - to build cars too good for their budget and try to make some points. So it was ironic that it gave any results, after Arrows filed the bankruptcy.
107%
According to F1 folklore, one of the Arrows cars ended up being part of an airport display, only to be removed and pressed back into service with a team after being bought.
It's said that the one Yuji drove is the airport car thus he was having so miserable performances(though he's unarguably bad as it was). They were basically a one-car team.
I have heard the story of this car before, but I never realized the whole Super Aguri team was basically Arrows rejoining the grid under a different name (and of course with new ownership) following a 3 year hiatus.
Team Lotus/Caterham was pretty much the same thing in 2010
It wasn't, thats a dumb claim. Most of the personnel moved over from Honda or were recruited from elsewhere. Factories capable of housing an F1 team don't exactly grow on trees and take years to build, so moving into a pretty much up to date, abandoned facility to get a team up and running quickly makes sense.
@@andrewcarter9649Original comment is not 100% accurate but what I think Nathan is trying to say is that Super Aguri was formed from Arrows IP (i.e. the cars… and some equipment). It’s interesting to hear that Stoddart decided against operating the A23 (or an upgrading A23) in 2003.
@@bfapple The Minardi staff were prepared to rebel, they had a lot of pride in the work they were doing despite the lack of money.
Other fun fact: insiders say that the famous double diffuser and bulk of the ideas for the 2009 car (that would give Brawn and Button their championship after Honda withdrew/sold the team to Brawn) was developed by an ex-Super Aguri skunkworks that Honda kept on the books after Super Aguri was wound up. When you think that at least some of those guys would've been ex-Arrows (as the video describes), it's a nice 'redemption arc' for sure.
I miss Stoddart. He was constantly bashing FIA and advocating for budget caps. The only thing I regret is Minardi participation in the 2005 US GP, although Paul was in favor of race cancelation
He didn't want to race but told his drivers to follow the Jordans, hoping they'd pull into the pits. Jordan and Minardi were fighting for 9th and 10th in the championship, and the money that went with it, so racing the Jordans was the only chance they had of scoring points that season.
If Eddie was still in control of the team, I don't think Jordan or Minardi would've taken to the grid.
He went on a tirade of blind rage in an interview with a Dutch reporter during the race, after they gave him permission to swear on live television. He really was not happy with the situation and wanted to have the race cancelled. Of course that’s in part because he knew the Minardis would not likely beat the Jordans in a six-horse race, and that the resulting points gap would be too great to overcome for the rest of the season.
The Arrows car used to always be in the top of the speed traps, so it was quick it just lacked downforce, that’s probably why it was able to stay relevant with the newer aero updates.
Exactly, 2001 Hockenheim fastest in Qualifying with 361 km/h
In endurance racing Oreca 07 has been used since 2017 and it is so good LMP2 basically becomes Oreca 07 spec series
Apples to oranges. LMP2 was meant to have new cars for 2021 but covid scrapped that and after delay after delay instead will only get new cars in 2028 which is one year before LMH/LMDh regs expire which USE the chassis of those '21 P2s we never got.
Thanks for your interesting videos. I haven't seen any of yours before, but I've watched a few over the last couple of days and now, because i have enjoyed them so much I will subscribe 👍. Thanks again
really, dude, this video is so good, good job
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Sergio Rinland was always one of the most creative and innovative designers in motorsports.
It also briefly ended up in the hands of the DOA Phoenix F1 team, backed by Tom Walkinshaw
To be fair to the 1997 Lola, we don't know how bad it was.Life,Onyx, Brabham in the80s/90s, Andrea Moda,all are objectively awful
Lola's T97/30, it was rushed and at the behest of MasterCard and never meant to run a year before it should have and only ever ran in one session, IIRC
Onyx scored a podium. Brabham were champions in the early 80s.
Takuma Sato couldn't quite keep pace with Button, but he was a pretty amazing driver. I forget the exact timeline, but the time it took him to get from Karting to F1 was but a fraction of the time for the typical F1 driver (something ridiculously short... like 2 years???). If he had been groomed from a younger age who knows... His success was no fluke including his Indy 500 win. And comparing him to Button... Button kept Lewis Hamilton honest (and kind of sort of outperformed him... at times). And Lewis is a generational talent. Hamilton > Verstappen. There... I said it... anyways... Sato was a pretty badass driver but he's often compared to drivers with far more experience and whom were also top tier talent. Barichello also got beaten by his teammates but he was still top 1/4 (easily!!) of the F1 grid throughout the majority of his career.
He started with karting at 19 in 1996 after a brief career in cycling as a kid. Then he went to single seater cars in 1998. Eddie Jordan said that he when he raced for him he was very fast but he didn't knew the reason why. Always apologetic when he crashed, the kind of guy you can't be mad at him when he stood in front of you.
I think in terms of dominance, the W05 has to be up there too, unbelievable car that.
Wow. This is all new to me, and I've been an avid F1 fan since the late 1980s. How did I miss this? Thanks for the info
i think some of these became f1 two seaters that were sort of a thing back in the early/mid 00's
Look at the McLaren M23. Ran continuously for 5 seasons, including 2 Drivers Championship's. A far more interesting story than the Arrows
That was typical for the 1970's Lotus also used the 72 for 5 years with great success.
because Mclaren raced in 2 series with M23 and M26? specs
I'm sorry but the 1975 312T and 1978 312T3 were already completely different cars. Add the 1979 ground-effect T4 and there is basicly no relationship between them except the engine.
Yep, ferrari model codes of the time will usually refer to the engine and in this case the gearbox too. 3 litre 12 cylinder Transverse gearbox. Completely different cars outside of the engines.
BMW S192 participated through 4 seasons as Andrea Moda, Bravo and Simtek car
Sato didn’t get dumped by Honda because he was slower than Button, it was. because Button didn’t honor a contract he had with Frank Williams to go back to Williams, Honda was put in a bad position they had already signed Rubins so they had to choose between the two, Button was was the star so he got the seat and Honda moved heaven and earth to keep Sato in F1 by setting up Super Aguri. Honda did the honorable thing while Button showed that he wasn’t a man of his word. I find it strange that every time a Japanese manufacturer has a fast Japanese driver in their car they never have faith in him and go with some supposedly faster white guy, Honda did it to Sato and Toyota did it to Kobayashi, it took Glock breaking his leg for the to give their countrymen a chance and he shined, unfortunately Toyota quit at the end of the season.
I raise you the winning car at the 24 hours of Le Mans in '96 and '97, which was a TWR-Jaguar-Mazda-Joest-Porsche.
And i'm not talking about a car model, or a design on paper. I mean an actual chassis manufactured by TWR raced as a work car for both Jaguar and Mazda, before winning Le Mans twice as a Porsche.
You mentioned the anti dilution fee. However back then it was not an anti dilution, you got the money back plus interest during your first season of racing. It was just a fee to guarantee another Mastercard Lola fiasco didn't happen again
theres a truck in the Nascar truck series that ran for nearly 2 decades. literally you cant make this up. its an interesting story
Man forgot to put Max’s car at the start
Sauber's 2025 entry will be this car...
the RB19
Marussia also used the car as a demo car i believe
That‘s right, from 2011 onwards I think. Paul Stoddart also kept one of the cars for himself in Minardi colors. Another one went into private hands and was sold just recently.
Renault / Alpine reused the car or chassis respectively for 2020-2021
I think the 2005 Jordan were use until 2008.
By whom? The Midland M16 (the EJ15's successor) was designed by Dallara
The fact that he didn’t say Red Bull RB19 and ended at Mercedes W11 for dominant cars is very suspicious🤔🫣
It was just off the top of my head
I don’t find either car particularly iconic tbh. Sure they were both fast, dominant cars, but not anywhere near as legendary and awe-inspiring as the MP4/4 or F2004 were.
Video of Jos Verstappen testing the Minardi PS04/Arrows A23 at Mugello on Septemper 16, 2003: th-cam.com/video/9bRxwuvV-Is/w-d-xo.htmlsi=kcGlgoBSuUB5ilAF
4:21 so what about the Toro Rosso 2006? it was the Bar Honda from 2005 with a different engine.
It was the 2005 Red Bull
The STR1 was pretty much the RB1. It used the same engine (Cosworth TJ2005 3.0 V10), but was detuned in 2006 for equivalency with the new 2.4l V8s.
2:25 - What kind of message would it send to the Minardi development team to ditch their car and use LAST years model of a competitors car ?
ANSWER: You are all BS at what you do to have a last years model of a competitors car work better than your current design.
Not quite. The message would have been: With more money and better equipment we could do that also. What they did was just copy/pasting the parts which were good, and bring them on their car without development costs. Win/Win situation. That fact was completly missing in this video. It was a nice move from Stoddart, he just bought the cars, which were much cheaper than windtunnel hours and development. And he was able to resell them, so well played.
@@Foxhunter_DE THEN the message would have been: Get up off your arses and join a team with a budget.
@Team33Team33 No. Because everybody know that is not so easy and not how it works.
@Team33Team33 when they did get a budget they had to run a year old Red Bull RB1, then pretty much had the same car as Red Bull for a few years.
@@Ramtamtama So why not just run the Arrows "as is" ? LOL.
Please do a video essay on monster jam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Claiming this to be the same car after all those modifications is like Trigger claiming he’s still using the same sweeping brush 😂
It was the same chassis though, which is the part that gets the name.
@ clearly states in the video that the monocoque underwent changes. Meaning it’s definitely NOT the same chassis
@@TheGalantHamburger It basicly was still the same chassis. The changes were made due to regulation needs, the car or the monocoque was never a complete rebuild. It was just like an upgrade, chassis still was the same.