Endurance Racing’s Golden Age | Full Story
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ธ.ค. 2023
- Group C Sportscar Racing was a golden age for speed. The concept of speed had never before been pushed so far during wheel-to-wheel combat. Starting in 1982 it wasn’t immediately clear the magnitude of madness about to be unleashed, but within a decade the fight for sportscar glory had birthed the fastest racing machines ever built. This is the story of Group C, and the drivers and machines crazy enough to be able to call themselves champions.
Full Story is an automobilistic series with each video containing all previous videos on a single topic, compiled into a single marathon video. There is only small amounts of new content so no, its not deja vu, you may well have seen it before. I hope you enjoy nonetheless. (Normal upload schedule unaffected)
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Edited by:
Fred Knight ( @automobilistic )
JD Minny ( @jdminny )
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#racing #cars #lemans - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Full Story is an automobilistic series with each video containing all previous videos on a single topic, compiled into a single marathon video. There is only small amounts of new content so no, its not deja vu, you may well have seen some of it before. I hope you enjoy nonetheless!
This was awesome! Would love to see you do a video on the Holbert family specifically, they’re history with Porsche is pretty much forgotten about today, but they were a massive part of Porsche’s success at Le Mans and IMSA, with the team being primarily comprised of 6 people and a shit load of weekend warriors. Success that was then cut short far too soon.
Well played, I was so entertained I didn't realize until 6 minutes in that all this looked rather familiar
Thanks for the effort mate, it saves me from pulling out my old group c vhs videos ( thanks to Duke video too) I think I’m starting to enjoy this digital age 🤙
Always enjoyable background inspiration for me to illustrate to. Thanks! :D
Fuck I was thinking
It wouldn't be FIA if it didn't accidentally ruin not only manufacturers, but an entire racing series by overregulating it.
I’m sorry its been 2 months since you posted this comment, but actually they didnt « accidentally » ruin the WSC, it was totally on purpose. At the end of the 80s, the WSC was a whole banger, it was really popular even more than F1 at the time. The FISA and the FOCA (the motorsport and economic departments of the FIA) of which Bernie Eclestone was the president, didn’t really like the fact that manufacturers preferred going to the WSC instead of Formula 1, and they also didn’t like the fact that they didn't earn any money from the Endurance Championship cause most of it was earn by the ACO and another group that I don’t remember the name. So, Bernie after realizing how the thing was going on, called the big boss of the FIA at the time, Jean-Marie Ballestre, to talk about the « horrible situation of Formula 1 » that was caused by the Group C. And Ballestre, as I understood, didn’t really had opinions on it and just followed the orders of Bernie and Max Mosley (his right-hand man). And after that the Sports 3.5L and some other things have been set up to kill the Group C(and to Peugeot's advantage, because it would be really cool for the business if a french manufacturer could win the WSC and the 24 hours of Le Mans). And yeah the chicanes on the Hunaudières straight, for example, was one of the things that the FOCA and the FIA did to piss off the ACO and indirectly kill little by little the 24h hours of Le Mans and the WSC. Sorry if my English is not perfect since Im a frenchman. I know that the french youtuber « LE CIRCUIT » made a little series of videos on it, it’s called « Le scandale des 24h du mans » literally « the 24h Le Mans scandal » but I don’t know if there are english videos about this subject… You can normally find some articles about it on the web if you don’t find any videos 😁
Its an interesting theory but I dont think you can just take it for truth
@@rolanddo4989 I’m not conspiracy theorist or something, but man, why would they force C1 to have 3.5L NA engines, why would they force manufacturers to reduce the weight of their prototypes to 750kg, forcing them to use extremely expensive composite materials (just like in F1). Why would they cut race distances in half, from 1000km to 500km. It’s not even endurance at this point lmao. Why would they force teams to have one driver per car (in the end it won't be, but it was supposed to)… They also wanted to change the name of the championship, but they also didnt do it because the sponsor told them that they wouldn’t come. I mean you just cannot say it was « accidental », it was totally on purpose, Ecclestone clearly wanted manufacturers to come in F1 after the downfall of the Group C.
I have no idea how many hours goes into the production of your videos, but I am truly sent back in time when you cover topics like these. From the bottom of my heart, thank you!
The Sauber C11 in my opinion has only 25bhp less than Sauber C9.
@@purwantiallan5089 Well that's a provably wrong opinion, and completely irrelevant to the comment you replied to.
@@purwantiallan5089In your opinion 🤔🤔😂😂
Group C is a really nice class, I actually wrote a full report analysing why it was considered a "goden era for sportscar racing" for my Highschool final project
Thats awesome and I wish I would've thought to do that for my Senior project back in the day. I was lucky enough to experience these monsters in person during the IMSA GTP era from 87-93. We went to Watkins Glen every year to see the GTP race. Good times.
Could GTP considered as "The new Golden era of Sportscar Racing"?
@@purwantiallan5089 if combined with the Hypercar class (since they're almost the same) I'd say so yes
I've seen all videos individually. However, merging them and connecting the story of each car makes it feel fresh and brand new. Fantastic storytelling and editing
Finally almost an hour of peak
Love your channel and your enthusiasm for group C. I still have VHS recordings of group C racing, I made back in the 80s (They're still in a box in the garage. Can't bring myself to throw them away, LOL)
Digitize them. You’d be surprised what footage is missing on the internet.
@TANGYHATCHY True that. I would even enjoy the old commercials. That would really take me back in time, lol.👍
If you digitize them, I’d give you a few bucks to email them to me lol
Like other people said please digitize and post them, I'd be happy to contribute to this. I was lucky enough to see these cars in person with my Dad back in the 80's and early 90's at Watkins Glen. Dad used to tape the races a lot back then and we'd watch them together. I still say it was by far the best era of racing.
@@trickydicky2908 Well said, I honestly enjoy seeing the commercials from that time period because it really does take you back to that era and it reminds me of hanging out at my Dad's house on the weekends with my brothers waiting for the race to come back on. Good times.
The Gran Turismo background music is perfect for this documentary 👌
Nice video! One point - Joest did not beat the works Rothmans team in the 1984 Le Mans. The works team did not show up, in protest for FISA proposing the removal of the Group C fuel efficiency formula for an IMSA-style sliding scale of engine type, displacement and weight. Porsche had enough confidence in their privateers to get the job done. Joest did beat the factory head-to-head in 1985, due to their diligent work on fuel mapping the Motronic system.
This has made my day completely, the greatest era of Endurance racing given nearly a full hour? I am a happy viewer
IMSA GTP is basically quite similar to older C1 class in 1986.
@@purwantiallan5089 yes indeed sir, only unlike Group C, IMSA GTP had no fuel restrictions and they basically said "Make the cars as powerful as you want!" it would explain why Buick's entry was so unreliable :D
I am a Porsche fan in and out, but that Jag was something special.
I would like to see a video talking about the Intrepid used in GTP imsa.
That Jag was certainly special, but just like the Sauber-Mercedes they hugely profited from the aerodynamic and ground-effect work that Porsche had done with the 956 and the 962. Jaguar and Mercedes pretty much used the same tactics the Japanese car manufacturers often use: thoroughly study and analyse the car you want to beat, copy all its strong points and improve on the weaker points.
For both Jaguar and Mercedes it was pretty clear that their greatest advantage over Porsche would be with their engines. Porsche's determination to hold on to the flat-6 meant that they were also held to a relatively small displacement and that's were Jaguar and Mercedes could easily beat Porsche. Somewhat simplified: in Jaguar's case they used their trusty V-12, although they had to increase the displacement of that V-12 to 7 liters, whereas Mercedes started with a "slightly" turbo-charged version of their 5 liter V-8 and later had to increase the turbo pressure on their 5 liter V-8 significantly. Porsche couldn't increase the displacement of their flat-6 enough to compete against the Jaguar and Mercedes.
@@tjroelsma The Jag engine was at the end of its development life. A 4-cam version was tried but it was simply too top heavy and was abandoned. Their only choice was a new engine. The V12 had arguably the most torque of any Group C car and still had competitive power figures. The problem was that the fuel regulations were going to kill it.
The Porsche approach was arguably better. They could have kept on increasing the capacity up to a point be the engine’s top end power was still very good. And even at the end of its competitive life, it was still capable of winning races. It had good thermal efficiency and it managed to survive the fuel regulation changes until the end.
Mercedes was simply a compromise between these two approaches. Martin Brundle, who drove for Jaguar, commented that the Mercedes engine was the best combination of displacement and turbocharging for this type of racing. It’s best feature seems to have been a very flat torque curve from about 3,000-6,000 RPM. It had enough displacement not to be too affected by turbo lag but enough turbocharging to maintain good thermal performance.
I remember the Intrepids and how loud they were in person. I was at Watkins Glen when Tommy Kendall had that horrific crash on the back straight. Him and Wayne Taylor were great drivers.
@@tjroelsmawhat a shame that XJR-14 wasnt in any Gran Turismo game.
What a great channel. Mate you’ve done a great job. It’s so nice to see fellow group C fans!
This kind of video transcends documentation. It toys with my nostalgia for a time that I recall as better.
I love your content mate, its superb. Keep it up!
17:45 I like the Gran Turismo music. This video was awesome. Thank you so much for making it! This was an amazing time for racing!
Thank you for this amazing long time format!
Can see how much your speaking and production value has improved when you see different videos together like this! Keep it up man love the channel 👍
Always enjoy your videos. Love all the stuff I never knew. Thanks!
Outstanding presentation! I just finished watching this well-written and profusely illustrated history and enjoyed every moment. I felt I had a comprehensive familiarity with the Group C era but still learned things I hadn't previously been aware of. Congratulations on this superb effort!
50 minutes of Group C! I don't know whether Duke videos has anything similar. Thanks a million!
Fantastic video mate....such an incredible category in all of motorsports!
A lot of these cars were featured in video games but to get the actual stories behind them is BIG PLUS!! Thank You so much I thoroughly enjoyed it!!👍👍🌟👏👏👏🌹💯😁😁
Dude I've been following you're channel for a while now. Absolutely brilliant stuff. One of my favourite TH-cam channels and that's considering all kinds of genres. Well done sir
The handling of the Peugeot 905LM 1992 is exactly like 2022 F1 cars.
What a fantasticlly well researched, well documented, watch this was.
Listened while driving and actually missed my exit due to the suburb storytelling. Incredibly narrated and great video. You have a new subscriber.
Boy, you really know your stuff. Appreciate someone who knows and understands the technical side of racing. Good job !
Great video. Those group C cars are so futuristic they still look futuristic today.
thoroughly enjoyable! i applaud your work. thanks so much!!!
Haven't even started watching, and I know it's going to be a banger 🙌
A fantastic era for sports car racing. Great compilation of all the Group C cars.
Nice Christmas Present. Thank you!
Nice documentary. I loved this era of endurance racing, starting with the Group 44 Jaguars in the US. So many of these cars just exuded sexiness. It's amazing to look at them from a safety point of view today. Thanks
I watched the full documentary. Excellent in all aspects. It reminded me of those Motorsport VHS from the 90s. Thank you for making this.
I was watching at the time and even went to Le Mans in 1985, so it's kind of funny how Group C has morphed from being criticised as a fuel economy run instead of a race and a one-make Porsche championship at the time to now being hailed as the greatest era in endurance racing.
Merry Christmas! 🎄🎁✝️🙂🌟 Thank you for this treat! I am amazed how well researched your docos are! 🙂 Terrific footage. Surprise us next year!
This is wonderful mate.
Subbed. What a gem of a channel💯🏁
Phenomenal video. Your dedication and presentation is something you'd be hard-pressed to find on most one-man-show TH-cam channels. Great work
Mazda 757 and 737 imo are as legendary as 787B.
Great video to watch while having a lunch! love your videos ❤
Thanks for making this great, summary videos.
Knew a lot of the "actors", but wasn't so familiar with "the stage" and the entrances and exits 😊
Very nice Documentary, going to listen to this as I set up my Diecast collection display including some Resin pieces from Group C.
Awesome video sir! Excellent work
you're a legend for this, thank you
An hour of excellent work 👏🏻
Awesome! Thanks for the content
The Modern Golden Age of Le Mans.
So many iconic cars in the Group C.
Still remember playing gt3 and remember seeing the 787B for the first time...and it was all in the books from there. Your channel is incredible and I'd love to see you tackle the absurd monster that crushed the 2020 F1 season.
XJR-9 to XJR-14 even can also beat 2022 Red Bull RB18 with proper tuning.
you just earned a sub, incredible job !
Let's fricken gooo!
All my homies love Automobilistic!
YES! We needed this!
Excellent video as always. Best use of the GT OST except for Polyphony themselves :D
Regardless of what people say, the 787B raced for 24 hours like its tailpipe was on fire and outlasted even the Saubers... that's a feat.
Excellent. Thanks
Group C cars are so awesome, and they look awesome too. I had these Hot Wheel cars, which I later found were called Sol Aire CX-4s, and I loved them so much that I bought one recently as an adult. They were based on the Group C race cars from the '80s.
As a German, I want to say that your efforts at speaking German are actually pretty good!
Wow, just wow. I never watch hour long videos on TH-cam but this, I had to watch. 👍🏼
This channel deserves more subscribers.
Excellent content, good job
Superb! Keep it up!
Whoever this dude is he has a good voice
speaks clearly i appriciate this. Rock on!
This was great. Would love to see a similar piece on the IMSA GTP era. Thanks for this!
Cool to see a younger guy like me that appreciates this era of racing, which was a time just before we may be able to remember
Bro that was amazing thx u
this video is amazing. +1 sub
amazing video
I love Peugeot, they went from rally (group B and before) to endurance (group C), then back to rally (206 and 307 WRC) , then back to endurance (908 HDi), back to rally again (207 s2000 and 208 R5, not in the top class though) and now back to endurance again with the 9x8. There aren't many manufacturers that come to my mind that have competed in both sports as much as Peugeot. Maybe Toyota would be another one ?
The Gran Turismo 3 race start music...perfect way to open this video.
This video is top tier ❤
"truly would be a story for the ages, sure, a small manufacturer storming the scene and beating all the big guys with the power of rotary!" Is funny because that's almost *exactly* what happened when Mazda entered IMSAs GTU category with even a sneaky championship in GTO (using a hilariously small 13B engine in that class) in 1984, later claiming a second GTO title in 1991
Why has this excellent lad not scooped up by BBC, I have no idea. Excellent presentation Sir!
LOVE ITTTT!!!!
This is the channel I have been looking for ever since TH-cam became a thing! Despite 98.6% of the crap I watch on here being endurance and sports car racing related, TH-cam's algorithm has only just gotten around to wondering if your content might be of interest to me. YES, you stupid, algorithmic motherf...!
I've watched a fair few of your videos over the past week or so and can't think of a single 'Well, actually...' moment which has sent me scrambling to the comments. Superbly researched, slick editing, very well narrated, just the right balance of dry humour and as good as any motorsport documentaries I've ever seen (and paid for!) from far bigger and far better funded TV channels and media production houses. Well done, young man.
Would you consider a video looking into the production hell that was McQueen's Le Mans? If you would, give us a nudge. The production nightmares have been well documented before, but I might have something on McQueen's involvement and the 908/2 camera car that, as far as I know at least, nobody else has ever noticed, mentioned or covered and it is a bit of a "Holy cow, how did everyone miss that!!" thing. It just needs someone with a nose for details and better research skills than I have to find last piece of the puzzle and see if there is more to what I think found than just my own speculation. I've been sitting on it for years, trying to find that last piece of the puzzle, but I think you could do a better job of finding the smoking gun, if there is one and making a far better video on it than I ever could. If you're interested, give us a shout.
Best automobile channel on TH-cam, no contest!
I'm loving the gran turismo music in the background
Group C Cars is what made me fell in love with these iconic cars in GRAN TURISMO 2 to 7, especially the Mazda 767B and BMW V12 LMR in GRAN TURISMON2 A SPEC MOD.
Fun fact: The letter C of the Sauber cars stands for Christine, Peter Sauber's wife.
Love the Hungarian GP poster on the wall. I have it on a T-shirt.
i love the gt4 music at 15:25. Especially since all or most of these group c ars are in that game. My favorite was the xj9 and the nissan r92cp
favorite creator by far
My subscription to Road & Track began in late 1988/89….i was in 7/8th grade…the Senna Prost battle…DTM series…and Group C
Plus the creation of countless classic vehicles…I didn’t stand a chance 🤪🤪🤪
Nice Video! Perhaps you could condense the 1995-1998 GT1 Era like this as well. Very professional composition and presentation.
Thanks for this great video and some insights.
This video just shows/proves how ridiculously good Mercedes was and, and this has to be said, shows the truth behind the success of the 787b which it had after the rule change. All these cars are history but imo the 787b gets way too much credit which it simply doesn’t deserve.
Nice voice work - you have a good future in motorsports. I would listen to you anytime. - B.Gardner long time racing fan.
Mazda had a 1-2 finish in class at its first group C efforts with the 717c and got the best fuel consumption award.
In 1984 and 1988 the Sandown Raceway Organisers in Melbourne Australia hosted 2 races of the WSC. The only problem was no one came it it pretty much bankrupted them. Thankfully they recovered.
Christmas special, yeeeeeees!
I like that you bring the group C era back to life with your video, and your videos, in general, are very nicely made. Obviously you love motor racing history, and it really shows.
So please, consider the following, slight corrections as constructive criticism and do not be offended. And yes, I am fun at parties. At least, I tell that to myself 😉
1. the 956 never raced with a 2.8 liter engine, various Porsche teams used them in qualifying only - because of higher fuel consumption, I suppose.
2. Apart from aerodynamic modifications (the low downforce kit was available from 1982 already though), the main difference of the 956B was its electronically controlled engine (Motronic 1.2). However, at the 1984 Le Mans 24h, Joest switched back to a mechanical setup, which was partly responsible for their success- again, supposedly.
3. Bellof‘s death had nothing to do with the 956 per se. He hit a concrete block head-on at around 200km/h. He wouldn’t have had a chance of survival in any contemporary car.
In addition, in 1985 already, newly-built cars had to adhere to the same Safety regulations as IMSA with regards to the position of the driver‘s feet. Cars built before that were allowed to race until the end of the 1986 WEC season, which is why you were not able to observe 956s after that, and which is why Porsche had to develop the 962C. Note that both of the other Group C fatal accidents were in 962s.
4. as has been noted by other commenters, the Works Porsche team did not compete at Le Mans in 1984.
5. The main advantage of the Mercedes (mildly) turbocharged V8 engine was less its top end power, but rather the mid-range torque and low fuel consumption. This is especially true for the 1989 four-valve version.
If you don’t have them already, I highly recommend Ian Bamsey‘s „Anatomy and development of the Sports Prototype Racing Car“, as well as Ian Briggs‘ „Endurance Racing 1982-1991“.
Everyone wake up! Automobilistic uploaded a new video!
I came. I watched. I liked. I subscribed.
This was a lot better than the mistake-filled rubbish that Adrian Millard often puts out.
Very well done. Great narration and knowledge. I'm also a Group C freak. That's why i won't forgive Balestre...
The C9 is my favorite racing car of all time. Bar none.
You know a racing series is trully great when a generation who has nothing but grainy recordings and news articles to learn of it tell you about how undoubtedly insane it truly was.
The Jag was a weapon in GTP too
It’s an amazing video, but I’d love to watch a specific video on the IMSA GTP cars who are the wild brother of group C!
Much more fancy aero allowed and zero fuel limits!
Also the purses were much higher in the states, that’s why so many went overseas to run the series.
They also drove many lovely whacky street tracks like New Orleans and crazy oval roadcourse configurations of some ovals like charlotte and especially the weird Pocono layout of 1984!
These cars were a thing of beauty.
I always enjoy watching it.If possible, could you please add Japanese subtitles as well?
Group c will always have my favorite cars
Bro said the far more sensible GT1 class lmao
The Sauber C9 might just be my all time favorite for best looking race car.
From the 80's and 90's on championship winning teams across so many racing disciplines - it seems there's a photo that has Ross Brawn in there somewhere....