It didn't work with Ghostbusters 2016 It didn't work with The Last Jedi It didn't work with Captain Marvel It didn't work with Netflix's Resident Evil It didn't work with Netflix's Cowboy Bebop It didn't work with Disney's A Wrinkle in Time It didn't work with Rise of Skywalker It didn't work with James Bond: No Time to Die It didn't work with Terminator Dark Fate It didn't work with Wonder Woman 1984 It didn't work with Halo's Live Action Paramount Plus Series It didn't work with Book of Boba Fett. It didn't Work with Ant Man: Quantummania It didn't work with The Mandalorian Season 3. It didn't work with Hawkeye on Disney Plus It didn't work with Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness It didn't work with She Hulk Attorney at Law It didn't work with BOTH Seasons of Velma It didn't work with Disney's Wish It didn't work with The Woman King It didn't work with Barbie's Live Action Movie It didn't work with The Society of Magical Negros It didn't work with Bros It didn't work with The Marvels It didn't work with Furiosa It didn't work with Ahsoka It didn't work with The Acolyte It didn't work with Agatha All Along It didn't work with Dustborn It didn't work with Concord It didn't work with Joker 2 *IT WONT. WORK. NOW.* *STOP.* *FUCKING* *USING.* *THIS.* *EXCUSE.* Because it's been *ELEVEN. FUCKING. YEARS.* And it's *STILL* Not Working.
I'm scared to total the monetary losses on all that; probably nearly ten billion at this point. Imagine what could have been created had the money been put to a useful purpose, instead of using woke studio projects/employees as a pass-thru to launder leftist political activism funding? I wonder what fraction of those billions turned into direct political donations, all in the same direction, not even counting in-kind donations, if one were to dig into the employees, contractors, vendors, etc? Also, I just learned there was a second season of Velma
Im catching a lot of heat online for my strong and heavily defensible stance on this exact topic. I welcome it and usually bring up so many points of reference that they block me or give up after a few exchanges. I wish there were more of us who can see reason and logic instead of letting their identity being their entire personality to the point that they cant do anything but react emotionally instead of logically.
"Toxic, -ist and -phobes", can these people at least come up with new/creative way to insult people? Oh right, they can't. They can't even create their own creative fantasy/show/movies and need to hijack a well established IP/franchise with millions of fans.
It is one of those words isn't it? I think the red flag with it is that it's just so nondescript, such a kneejerk term, that anyone with confidence behind their accusation will find it trivial to say something slightly more pointed. Seems like "toxic" gets used a lot by people that don't even want to begin trying to justify the insult.
They also made an entertaining product that did fan service right, called back to the original movie and were rewarded by people going and seeing it multiple times, making them a shit-ton of money. Did anyone hate on the female pilot? Nope, because she was well written and acted. She *had* to go on the mission of course, because female, however she wasn't shown to be 1000x better than Maverick, JUST because she had boobies, and the makers didn't put her front and centre and make it all about her. She also failed during training, just like eveyone else, she wasn't supremely perfect in every way, like Rey was in the DIEsney SW Trilogy, or She Hulk in that abomination. She was like all the other pilots and the audience accepted her as a part of the team. What the MSM and all these producers refuse to realize is that few audience members have issue with having female or PoC or LGBTQ or any other group in roles, as long as it makes sense why they are there and that it's not all about them, to the detriment of the story being told. Just yelling insuts at us is never going to work, they are not a monopoly and if we don't want to spend our hard earned money going to see some garbage that only exists to promote checkboxes, then we won't. They should also realize that when you point a finger and say " it's all your fault", there are three fingers pointing back at them.
I wonder why it’s not the subject of endless never ending screaming matches like TLJ is, gee maybe because Top Gun was not just objectively fun, awesome and wasn’t made with malicious intent
Maybe because it wasn't Sci-Fi or Fantasy being Destroyed by a Bunch of Loser Critics who hate the Genre! You People Crossed a Line with me going after Amazon's Rings of Power.... What others did to Star Wars and Star Trek gives you Haters No Blank Check with Me to Go After Good Things. Critial Drinker is playing a Zero Sum Gain trying to Come Up Off others by Tearing them Down, and oh I'll more than Give you the new Versions of Star Trek, and Star Wars, and the New Marvel Stuff, but Criticizing Rings of Power past Bad Casting and Sets for the Elves, and not enough Adventuring is just Pure Hating for Hating's Sake! You People get Rings of Power Cancelled like you did Halo, I'll go on the War Path and Do My Best to Have Your Loser Critics Cancelled as Well!
@@randyross5630 That's sweet honey, now take your medicine and go off to play with your dollies and leave the grownups stuff for later when Mr psychiatrist lets you out on probationary leave
@@randyross5630 Good luck on your crusade. You can start by not capitalizing random words. It comes across as unhinged. Also, you can't be a fan of Tolkien's writings and a fan of RoP at the same time.
Corpo 1: The fans hate our newest product. Corpo 2: What?!? Did you call them bigots? Corpo 1: Yes, several times. Corpo 2: And they're still not buying?!? Corpo 1: Yes. Corpo 2: Inconceivable!!!
This would actually have been a powerful scene if they'd actually used twins. He can't even tell them apart except superficially. Only nobody could it was the same person and they didn't even make the haircut subtly different.
Remember when D and D rushed the final season of Game of Thrones so that they can work on the Star Wars project that got cancelled anyway? Pepperridge Farm remembers.
Pepperridge Farms does not even remember how to make good chocolate chip cookies, very disappointed in the ones I recently bought, not how I remember them
And still, so many people dick ride those guys by giving then the out that the show went downhill because they ran out of source material to go off of. As if GRR Martin wasn't working along side them and telling them what would happen anyways. And further more, D & D made their own original portions of the show that were done well. That shit always pisses me off, and it's always from the same sorts of people who say that shit too.
The best part about all of that is seeing the way D&D crapped all over GoT in their rush to finish it so they could do Star Wars was a contributing factor in why the project they wanted to move on to got canceled.
The likes of sweet baby inc and black girl gamers call themselves super fans too. They market themselves as the solution to nasty PR issues. When that article talked about big companies hiring super fans to make their product more 'fan safe' why did I get the feeling they just meant hiring more activists.
Honestly, I don't care that much about some actors knowing the source material, especially side actors. Situation changes when they start to lecture you making incorrect references..
These people come in to a popular existing IP. They change it up, insert identity politics, force diversity, force lgbtq representation, retroactively change the lore, and deconstruct our favorite characters. We say, "we don't like what you've done to our franchise, so we won't watch anymore." That does not make fans toxic. That's just fandom. We are not obligated to consume their "new and improved" product. They are not entitled to our time and money.
The gall of these mouth breathers to literally Hi-Jack something, do as they please with it, then insult and attack the fans who point it out. They cant even realize how stupid and foolish and makes them look.
And it's a literal proven Hollywood mindset we see time and time again. The Witcher series and what the showrunner did with her self insert fanfic was egregiously bad. It felt like the first shift in fandoms going "wtf are you trying to do to our established characters?" Instead of just falling in love with the girlboss stuff without questioning it. The entire Disney Plus deconstruction of established Marvel heroes, becoming side kicks in their own show to some ultra awesome so good at everything badass strong woman that truly saves the day. While the hero is old and tired and not quite as good as the new woman. Every single one.
Diversity and LBGTQ+ by themselves aren't the problem. When the diversity doesn't make sense in the setting or when there is no reason for the audience to know the sexual orientation of the characters but knows anyway, that is the problem. Forcing something that doesn't fit the story, or adding in details that don't advance the plot or character, or enrich the setting, are the problem. People who don't respect the fundamentals of the storytelling art making stories, whether in a visual, audio, or written medium, is the problem, and fans can tell that.
They're not making these for the current fans, but marketing this product with IP visibility to pull in a whole new fandom of potentially more people. I don't think that demographic exists or if it does, even cares.
@@LawfulBased Ryan is correct; this isn't about the actual awakened agenda; there's plenty of examples aside from the Barbie movie. It's entirely about corrupted, hateful, lazy Ho'Wood production.
@@paulmurgatroyd6372 They didn't have to equal the OT, or even the prequels. They just had to churn out a few decent movies and shows based on the IP that didn't diss it and the fanbase would have loved them for it. Instead, they put someone in charge who was both incompetent and driven by rage and jealousy who felt the need to ruin what came before her. They could have been so successful, swimming in money, if they'd simply picked someone who ddn't hate the brand.
@@liamphibia I'd argue most are. They simply don't care about politics and all this culture stuff, they just want to watch a good sci-fi action flick with characters they love. They never wanted any of this, that's why they walked away.
actually liking and enjoying culture is now called hyper conservative regardless of your gender, location or anything else for that matter.... not even the culture you like and enjoy, be it some manga, comics, tv show, movie, or even sport
@@liamphibia A fact you will *NEVER* see mentioned when *that cult* is in charge of the narrative. It has to 100% binary for a multitude of reasons, the primary one being the only option available to consider is: You're either 100% wrong, or you're 100% right. Which is straight out of ideologue playbook. I'm pretty sure dummies also believe it's "absolute" proof they're right, which in turn means, they have no reason to listen to anyone else, they already "know" they're right. 🙄
Lets be clear. As a female former Star Wars fan. I would have not watched the acolyte whether there were people on the internet complaining about it or not. From seeing advertising I could see there was nothing in that show for me to like and everything to dislike as they further damage a franchise I loved by trying to prop up bad guys and insult good guys.
I have not like anything made by disney where it concerns Star Wars aside from Season One of Mandalorian and some very few filoniverse stuff. I still prefer the Karen Traviss books to filoniverse garbage. The best star wars movie is and always will be: The Empire Strikes Back
I knew from the first announcement that it wasn't going to be a show that appealed to me, being about a Villain Protagonist. But it was the first interviews with Headland, where she reveales that she really didn't understand the Prequels and couldn't stop talking about how queer she was that really turned me off. I was like, "Ohhhhhh you're anti-Jedi, anti-Prequels AND an ideologue, that is NOT a good combination, this show is going to be INSUFFERABLE."
It really shows how you can dress up a negative concept with the right wording. "Toxic Fandom" means "Customers who choose not to buy our product and explain why in open forum". The fact that they're spinning that negatively at all is pretty fucked, to be honest.
@@ScrambledAndBenedictgood point. I'm scratching my head and wondering when my decision not to buy a crummy product or something I don't like, became 'toxic'.
The reason they do it, is because they want to politicize the concept of customers choosing to buy their products. Nobody can reasonably explain why it's bad, wrong, or immoral, for a customer to choose not to buy a product and then explain why in open forum. They'd get briganded in seconds for that. But, if they can spin it as a massive lockstep bigotry campaign, well, suddenly those customers sound like the bad guy. "Being harassed by bigots" sounds like a horrible victimizing event, while "losing money because our products aren't selling well" does not. They basically want to put fans in a position where they have to choose between buying and endorsing a product, or being sexist, racist, red-hat wearing bigots. It's essentially like hiring advertisers, except you're blackmailing them instead of paying them.
I could call woke people nutjobs, insane, and braindead, but the only thing those names can do is throw out insults; it takes compelling arguments to win a battle of words. I find that in these comment sections people usually show up with an entire army of compelling arguments, and the only retaliation that we are given back are once again more insults and name calling like school children on the playground.
The way they see it, they are trying to achieve equality of outcome. So if a non-white, non-male, non-straight, non-cis, non-fully-abled person fails, that is not an equal outcome, and is therefore bigoted. Just ignore all the white male straight cis fully abled people that have also failed, and it makes perfect sense.
"I cut my teeth in the trenches of the Somme! You LARP-ed your Santa Claus arse through Vietnam!" - J.R.R. Tolkien to George R.R. Martin in Epic Rap Battles of History
Oh, and I laughed for 4 solid minutes at that "superfan focus group" bullschitt. EVERYONE who read that with 2 or more neurons to rub together instantly figured out what it meant: "We're gonna *pay* our biggest apologists on social media to do it in an official capacity! :D"
A 'superfan' group implies something that is a dead giveaway...and it's that why should they even need fans? Shouldn't the people working on these movies be massive fans of Star Wars? ESPECIALLY the writers?!?!?! This clearly shows they don't give a rat's asshair about the franchises they destroy, and they just use it for the mighty name it will give them.
Good stuff from everyone, Chris Gore really nailed it that the industry is upset they cannot manipulate and control the mass audience's opinions. It is very similar to politics where they throw ad hominem's at anyone with a contrarian opinion.
I always use "customer" instead of "fan". Companies feel entitled to "fans" time and money. Companies have to make a product "customers" are willing to spend time and money on.
I do as well. Gary (Neredrotic) gets it, and makes that point as part of his outro.. the part where he thanks you for watching/listening, and for taking your precious time to hear him make his points, whether or not you agree with him! Cheers!
Notice how so many corporations now talk about “consumers” rather than customers? It is because they expect their “consumers” to swallow whatever they belch out.
The issue, especially with actors, is that they are in a bubble where they are smart and beloved, and they're talking to people in that same bubble. That's why they're caught flat-footed when people outside that bubble react negatively. Such a reaction is beyond their ability to imagine.
I think it's worse; they're completely vacant. They regurgitate whatever hacky bullshit of writers on set all day, and are praised by directors and producers. They do it again on the Red Carpet, and glitterati worship them and give awards. They do it on the internet, and are mugged by reality. I think a lot of them are mentally deficient, or damaged, and basically can't distinguish their job from reality. Or that the reality where they are employed to say nonsense /for a living,/ is simultaneously occupied by who people don't pay them to say nonsense, and are in fact accustomed to nonsense being a very punishable offense in their daily lives (ranging from dismissal from a job to an ass-beating)
It's the same as that minority of people who say an entire fandom is toxic based off a few fans. They're the only real toxic ones. Like nuxtaku, thankfully they're always a minority though
Own a vegan restaurant in a Texas cowtown? It's not your fault for offering a service no one wants in a given location, it's "toxic carnivores." Own an ammo shop on a commune of Quaker pacifists? Again, "toxic Quakers." Whenever you go into a free market, and make/do something... and not enough people will pay for you to make a living doing it? That's their fault. Automatically. Apparently.
Econ 101: If you want to sell lemonade? Go somewhere where they like lemons. Progressivism 101: If you want to sell lemonade? Block off the street in a neighborhood where 1/4 people are allergic to citrus, and then yell that people who drive past are prejudiced if they don't give you money. With a megaphone.
Does no one remember that old expression "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink?" If people think that a product is shit, no amout of buzz words or gaslighting is going to change their minds. And on the flip side, TH-camrs like these guys can't control how people think! If most of their "fans" agree with the "bigots," maybe it's about time they realize that the problem is the product they're making!
@@BumfluffAddlepate I guess around 2015-2020ish they really did have total control. Comments were deleted left and right for showing the slightest sign of nonconformity, but I think companies became a bit wiser and realized that alienating half of the audience means LOSING half of the audience; and really it was probably way more than half. These people got their party for about 10 years now while the rest of suffered. now I hope they see what it feels like.
See and then there's the old expression of well if you want something done right do it yourself. Same can be applied here at fans want things to be done correctly they should do it themselves but they won't.
@@DarksideGmss0513 It takes a lot to make and distribute a movie or TV show. It's not something you can just do overnight. Particularly if we're talking sci fi, the genre with the highest financial barrier to entry in the industry. And good luck getting financing for a proper movie these days without some ideological mandates from a company or investor courting an ESG score. There's a few rich people out there who have the money and the will to fund a decent movie, but they're all busy with other projects so good luck getting their attention. Then you've got hiring. Good actors and competent film crews are not easy to find, and your only option is going to be poaching personnel from the Hollywood studios. Again, not cheap, and might carry its own ideological complications again as your team brings a Hollywood mindset to your movie. You can find decent unknown actors, but if you want your movie to be financially successful, you need at least one star to bring people to a no name studio with a brand new franchise. If you're lucky, you could land one of the artist actors out there like Viggo Mortensen, but that's unlikely because of how selective those guys are. If I'm wrong and it's not this difficult to make a professional movie, prove me wrong and do it
They're trying to spike the punch of awesome stories with foul tasting poisonous agenda and then blame the fans when they get called out for ruining what made the punch great.
@@paulmurgatroyd6372just reminds me how much I’d like to see advertisements for a movie on the Epic of Mwindo starring Chris Pratt. The amount of screeching, good lord.
People who say “tHeSe sHoWs aRe fOr kIdS” are missing the point - these shows will influence the next generation and our culture for better or worse, and we should speak up… and look to how they did things in the past when we produce competing products.
If a “show for kids” is encouraging them to lust over the emo mass murderer who killed a bunch of her friends/mentor figures just because “omg he’s bathing, so hooot” then their argument is irrelevant
@@kaylahensley1581 Objective reality cannot be tolerated in a socialist regime; all must be defined by the state, otherwise when the state acts immorally (and it most certainly will), the peasants will take umbrage. That's the Ayn Rand angle. There's also the historical angle, which is that 'primitive' bronze-age Romans wrote at length about this exact topic and its danger to a society, a long, long time ago. And related to that last one, the Christian angle, which seems to describe the nature of our times and its danger perhaps most accurately of all, as the work of an evil entity, whose aim is to subjugate all to his will/consciousness, denying objectivity in all its forms, and confusing everything that can be perceived to bring it about.
@@kingleech16 I'd argue it's because they realized some time ago they were themselves villains, stopped studying classical heroic literature years ago, and as a result are unable to 'fake' heroic tales any longer. It was easier to hide their nature when they could endlessly repurpose Shakespeare or Pulp heroes; now they have to rely on what they know...which is villainous. To paraphrase Venture Brothers; "when they see a good-guy being heroic, they think that he's a pussy, and they hope a much cooler bad guy kicks his ass."
@@thomasbecker9676 Sometimes they do, but in single numbers. If you want to talk about inconsistencies, blame Games Workshop for having convoluted lore. Like honestly, why were the Imperial Fists called back to the palace of Terra to defend it if that's supposedly the sole duty of the Custodes?
@@Eye_Of_Odin978 Dorn was the best fortress builder in the Imperium. Custodes are there to man the walls and fight things humanity isn't supposed to know about, not build shit. 40k lore was great until around the time fliers were introduced, and then the fluff was constantly changed to sell whatever new, overpriced, overpowered mini just arrived. I used to buy every novel BL published, and now I can't bother. I'll buy Abnett, but that's about it.
"We need to show them who's boss!" That's the big problem for Hollywood right now. They tried to show us... and to their horror, they realised we're the boss.
I've been thinking that for a few years now too. I hope Disney becomes a companion piece for that in business school. They're polar opposites in every way.
There is nothing wrong with experimentation though - if you suddenly hit on something like the McRib, it's fine to expand your menu. Just don't forget the guys who put you where you are to enable that experiment. You don't hire a chef who then comes in - makes salad for everyone, despite people ordering burgers, and then allow that chef to call your customers 'man babies' when they complain. And if it was decent salad, it would at least be a conciliation, but Rian Johnson took a big steaming shit in the dressing mix...
You know how Red Letter Media once made fun of media shills with the phrase "Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product"? Hollywood seems to believe that's what fans SHOULD be doing, rather than calling out the people responsible for screwing their favorite properties over and holding them accountable for their wrongdoings.
Yeah RLM are pretty accurate. Also I think the Drinker has pretty much picked up where they left off. Do you think RLM were too harsh when it comes to the Star Wars prequels?
People who make tv shows and movies have forgotten that they’re meant to make a product for us the consumer. And it is up to us of if it is worth our time and money. We don’t owe them anything. They take us for granted and complain that we don’t unquestioningly consume the bad product that they produce instead of learning from their mistake and trying something else.
Imagine this: they announce the remake of "The Notebook" and females go crazy with anticipation. The movie comes out and the love story lasts 3 minutes, both lovers get kidnapped by radical terrorists and the whole movie revolves about the rescue operation with Ben Foster leading the SEAL team in a gritty, brutal firefight. Critics everywhere... "this is exactly what the romantic genre needed, 10 out of 10."
The "toxic fans" they refer to are just fans who are extremely passionate, and fans who don't want their favorite franchises changed and warped to the point of being completely unrecognizable.
You put THAT in Star Wars, and expect us to: 1. Not hate you for putting THAT in Star Wars. 2. Buy your chimera. 3. Consume your chimera. 4. Only say positive things about it. If you have no fandom you are passionate about, replace "Star Wars" with "coffee" and imagine "THAT" is "horse piss". Sure, a couple of drops may not spoil a brew entirely, but when you start going half-and-half, it won't quite taste like coffee anymore. Want to prove me wrong? Go ahead, try it. Maybe you'll like it. I don't want to hear any negative thoughts, though, so keep them to yourself. Just consume.
When 10 people vocally complain it's called "toxic fandom" When 10 000 000 vocally complain it's called "general consensus" Guess where currently is the Hollywood industry.
It's like Bill Burr said: "When women argue, if they're right then they are on point and stay on point until you're down on your knees begging for forgiveness. No problem with that, totally respect it. "But if they're wrong, they go ROGUE. They start attacking your weaknesses, going after your insecurities. Just know that if this happens, you've won the argument. Don't let them get to you, bob and weave, take a knee and just run out the clock!"
More of them know more than you realize. They're just banking that they can erode standards through persistent saturation. Next step will be restricting access to legacy media. Mark my words.
You make a very good point. Man, imagine if Studio Audiences were still a thing, and dreck like the Acolyte or even better, Agatha All Along, was put before them?
This is so messed up. Do NOT let these people flip this around. THEY infected the IP before the OG fans became toxic. Alright? We didn't START anything. We REACTED.
They can't claim toxic fandom if only 3 people watch the show. The reality is that they could claim that back before people realized that the shows/movies weren't worth watching at all. But after 2 or 3 shows/movies, people just became apathetic and stopped paying attention at all. Basically they can't claim that they are receiving "millions of people sending them hate mail" if the ratings show that only a hundred thousand people have actually watched the thing at all.
I feel these studios are missing the point. Make your show in an established IP for the fan base, don't make it for outside that demographic. The 18 year old female, on average, is not buying the merchandise. However the 30+ year old super fan will, probably, drag his non fan girlfriend along for the ride.
The inflammatory remarks have a long tradition in "high" culture, in which artists willingly badmouth the audience to produce "high art" or to distance themselves from their audience, who they secretly hate or think lowly of and want to "re-educate" in a progressive direction. In that sense, what we have here now, is a "literarization" of the Entertainment Industry. Trends that were already common in prose literature and the theatre, now flowed into Comics, Movies, Games... The problem is that Comics, Movies and Games are not financed by taxes but by the private money of the audience. That is different to prose literature of "high culture", which is financed by awards and the public hand (at least in Europe) and theatre, which also could not exist without somebody in the city or the state financing it. Thus, we have a kinda mismatch of what you can do to the audience and how the audience can reciprocrate. And that is dawning slowly in the minds of the executives in Hollywood and beyond. Historically, the media where you can badmouth the audience is low cost media, where poorly made movies or stage plays can be financed without problems. This is is not the case with blockbuster movies and TV Shows. There you have very high costs, that need to be brought in by selling of tickets or subscriptions. You also need to get some kind of profit, break even is not gonna cut it for you. Actrices like Tatiana Maslani and Brie Larson want the studios to behave like bolshevik state financed media outlets, and pay them high salaries for screaming at the audience they secretly hate. That is not viable. It is also not american. Shit, it isn´t even european, really.
There's enormous nostalgia in the MSM for the days when they got to control what the story was, decide who could and could not speak: and when no one could fact check them or challenge their narratives. You can see it in entertainment, culture and politics: and they're all snarling for some form of either hard or soft censorship to try and get back that total control.
Having the internet take that control away makes me think of the Wizard of Oz, where the curtain was pulled back, and the wizard shouts, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"
@@MaryRohwer Indeed - we've seen that these people who were always able to portray themselves as the gods of truth and virtue, are the most petty, spiteful and dishonest people imaginable.
@@incurableromantic4006 The Rachel Zegler interview with Halle Bailey interview looked like every Disney interview I've ever seen where all the young Disney actors sit around and say how they are all best friends and how everything is so funny. That might have worked a few years ago, but with the internet exposing everything, it looks like Disney is a one-trick pony and needs to DO BETTER at garnering support.
Nailed it. They are coming for Elon Musk. They don't mind when contrary voices are forced to use minor platforms such as message boards or Truth Social but when Twitter/X allows the other side to speak they lose their mind. Legacy media hates Twitter/X in particular because it effectively counters their agreed narrative.
I don't think we're toxic enough, nothing is more poisonous to an entertainment or media company than an absentee audience, which they have been asking for so long by telling us that what they're making is not for us, we should just give them the toxicity they want rather than actually trying to tell them they're doing something stupid or wrong.
When Coca Cola introduced New Coke, and it proceeded to flop magnificently, they didn't call the fans toxic and blindly push onwards like a stubborn mule. They pivoted and stopped making it, then kept selling what made them a profitable company.
Some say New Coke was never intended to stick around for long, and was just a way to introduce high fructose corn syrup as the sweetener in "Coke Classic" under guise of a return to form...
Studios like Lucas Films and Marvel Studios that struggle with their television shows often resort to blaming "toxic fans" for their failures, rather than confronting the reality of their poor creative choices. This scapegoating overlooks significant issues such as inadequate writing, weak storytelling, and lazy production values, which contribute to the lackluster reception of series like "The Acolyte" and "Agatha." By failing to take responsibility for these shortcomings, studios not only alienate their audience but also underestimate viewers' ability to discern quality content from poorly executed narratives. This pattern reflects a troubling trend in the entertainment industry, where accountability is sacrificed in favor of deflecting criticism onto an audience that is often more engaged and discerning than studios acknowledge.
I like how they point out the problem is they aren't making any new material, by bringing up the franchise economy. But they conclude the fans are wrong for wanting their stuff protected rather than getting on the studios to make better original products
Hell, imagine if Amazon made an unfaithful, poorly researched, but still entertaining story that had Hobbits and Mordor in it? I'd definitely take that at this point, and happily debate lore-goons that they should still be satisfied...because that's essentially what the Peter Jackson movies were! Gunpowder in the Third Age...bah, how ridiculous...
TH-camrs are just a small loud minority, its just that your opinions happen to often align with the large silent majority. the only difference if the there were not TH-camrs the shows would just be silently failing, maybe a little more slowly, but the fate would be the same in the end.
I agree with this. There are plenty of times that I would not have known a movie existed if it were not for the TH-camrs bashing it. And I've gone back and watched older shows because TH-camrs were talking about it.
@@nicholasvinen I had that same kind of experience. I watched the Flash (the one from the Arrowverse) and couldn't believe that the show was actually trying to tell the audience how to feel. Unbelievable! But every review I saw told me it was the best show on television. That was also hard to believe considering how they were bringing characters over from Arrow to help save it, or, at least, that's how it looked to me. To see a review that brought up THE MESSAGE was a welcome change.
The fact that there is a such thing as a “franchise economy” is ridiculous. It’s not just a genre trend like westerns or slashers where they come in, drive the box office, and then goes away. They’re truly counting on this to be their bread and butter as opposed to making a mix of high profile star driven vehicles, and mid to low budgeted things like romcoms that are low risk/high reward.
Fandom hasn’t changed. Producers and studios have. The fandom has always been there looking forward to new things. These activists are the ones who have changed it all. They’ve turned on the fandom and made them the enemy. Fans didn’t change. The way they get treated has. These companies no longer care about the customers who got them to where they are in the first place.
If Mace Windu had a good show and he remained as badass as he was in the prequels, everyone would cheer. If we get shit like the acolyte, only activist cheer, and there aren't that many.
Yeah, but Sam Jackson probably wouldn't agree to a bunch of feminists making his character a whiny, feckless bitch. It'd damage his brand (since he always plays the same character). Seeing as Jackson /will not/ turn down a job offer, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what went down behind closed doors between Mrs. Kennedy and Jackson's agent.
@@christophertheriault3308 He was Sam Jackson, ergo he was badass by definition. Just roll with it, Star Wars fans should be used to cool-looking characters that don't do anything being heaped with admiration.
Having Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy produce a Star Wars movie is like letting a propagandist from Mao's Cultural Revolution write amendments to the US Constitution.
The "my turn" mentality, entitlement, that "now that I'm making MY movie, it's definitely going to succeed, just like every hit before me". Then the numbers don't match and it's not from their incompetence.
What's happened is what I refer to "Reverse Glasnost." In the mid 1980's Mikhail Gorbachev (then premier of the Soviet Union) sought to reinvigorate Soviet political, commercial and social life. So he enacted several programs, one of which was called Glasnost (opening in Russian) where they relaxed a lot of the governmental constraints on speech, literature, journalism, religion and entertainment. This was all done as part of a larger effort to breath new life into the USSR and keep the country going. Instead it was another series of nails in the Soviet coffin. The thing that happened was that once people were free to criticize the Soviet government that's exactly what they did, and they were able to gather people behind them and form true organized blocs of opposition to the Communist government and it's satellite states. Many of these critics actually became major active political players in post communist eastern Europe, including leaders in Russia, Poland and the former Czechoslovakia. Now how does this relate to the panel on Open Bar? Well, because TH-cam basically allows people to talk to just about anyone on the planet, there's been a whole series of cottage industries that have grown up around covering news, sports and in this case entertainment. As major news outlets, legacy publications and mainstream television channels have basically collapsed into solipsistic navel gazing (the fact that such outlets are owned by the same entertainment companies the TH-camrs are criticizing isn't lost on me) and stopped providing real, actual news, commentary and editorial pieces and devolved into semi corporatist propaganda if not outright government and media narrative enforcement the door has opened for people like Drinker, Mauler, Az, Gary, Quarter Black, Platoon, Cynic, Badger, Robot Head, Disparu, Jedi Brooks, Reaper, Shad, Comix, Odin, Eric July, Gore & Ng, Mexican Ironman, Chato, Ruined Leon, Sidescrollers, Razorfist, RK, DDAY, MelonieMac, X-Ray Girl, Star Wars Girl, Kirshe, Gothix, Chrissy Mayr and Snarky Jay (among many other wonderful people) to all make their various criticisms on movies, entertainment, politics and culture. Because they're all intelligent people who make logical, intellectually solid, and often extremely funny arguments about why a lot of movies, video games and television are bad these days. Because they're good at what they do they're able to get people behind them, and this causes problems for the studios because at this point all of these TH-camrs have essentially formed organized blocs of opposition to the major entertainment companies and can push back against "The Message" because they can give people the intellectual tools to explain why movies and TV are bad and why the current narrative doesn't work.
You make movies and shows to please a fanbase if it already exists. You don't make them to please only you and your 5 friends. We have a bunch of perverts and adult pretenders ruining everything.
Let's try this in different fields: "Are you finished with that program?" "Yes, here it is." "Umm... our users say that the program throws an unhandled exception error." "They're racist!" "Nurse, did you administer the pre-op alprazolam?" "Yes. The patient died." "WTF? How much did you give?" "1g, like you wrote." "I WROTE 1mg!!!" "You're racist!"
They are realizing in the hard way that customers have the power and they are getting more and more nervous, just look at what's happening in the game industry. Keep fighting the good fight guys 💪💪
I used to work with a guy who would enthusiastically try to go to nearly every new film at the cinema, and his reaction to every new movie from an established franchise is exactly what I think these studios hope people will react: Him: "Yo! Did you see there's a new [insert well-known title here] coming out?!" Me: "yeah but it doesn't look very good." Him: "Whaaaat?! But it's [well-known franchise]! It can't be crap!"
Hollywood writers; “we are ALL so awesome and EVERYTHING we write is a timeless classic! There is nothing at to criticize, we are perfect and you WILL watch anything and everything we put out. And you will be THANKFUL we are blessing you mortal peasants with such godly gifts!”
2:19 They don't just rely on it, they depend on it. They expressly want to use an existing franchise as a vehicle to proselytize that franchise's fans. The Acolyte is the God's not Dead of Q-Theory.
I remember when the toxic fandom tried to get the game Hogwarts Legacy boycotted by attacking the author of the books for something she wrote on twitter, but that didn't put a dent in its sales. So if a product doesn't do well, maybe it's because the majority of the consumers don't like the product?
If the promotion of a product emphasizes a DEI talking point more than any other quality of the product, it's safe to assume that the product is going to be trash. The industry has chosen "the message" over story telling.
You can't really get indignant when the dog you beat stops greeting you at the door. It's amazing that the producers are saying that they have to stick to established franchises because of all the toxicity, when the bitterness and outrage came from their relentless attack on every IP that fans actually enjoyed. Remember the wide-eyed innocence and boundless enthusiasm that preceded the Star Wars prequels? Sure, there have always been malcontents who balk and cry foul whenever their headcanons are upset, but most of us learned our cynicism after repeated disappointments, broken promises, and direct insults to us or our intelligence.
What does "too much criticism" actually mean? From what I've seen, any criticism is too much and any reaction from the fanbase to the slop they're serving us that falls short of fawning adoration, is toxic.
You just posed an incisive question, and you have an INGSOC display pic. You're already cynical enough to know that they would wriggle like electrified worms in response to said question if asked directly.
"I don’t consider [fans] toxic, I see them as passionate"
- Henry Cavill, 2019 on The Witcher
Superman sees the truth.
@@jwrootThe most Clark Kent he could have said.
I agree with Henry Cavill he's one of my favorite actors
Badass quote from a badass fan himself.
Mostly agree, except that games devs getting death threats when they delay a release by a few hours is a disgustingly regular occurrence.
It didn't work with Ghostbusters 2016
It didn't work with The Last Jedi
It didn't work with Captain Marvel
It didn't work with Netflix's Resident Evil
It didn't work with Netflix's Cowboy Bebop
It didn't work with Disney's A Wrinkle in Time
It didn't work with Rise of Skywalker
It didn't work with James Bond: No Time to Die
It didn't work with Terminator Dark Fate
It didn't work with Wonder Woman 1984
It didn't work with Halo's Live Action Paramount Plus Series
It didn't work with Book of Boba Fett.
It didn't Work with Ant Man: Quantummania
It didn't work with The Mandalorian Season 3.
It didn't work with Hawkeye on Disney Plus
It didn't work with Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness
It didn't work with She Hulk Attorney at Law
It didn't work with BOTH Seasons of Velma
It didn't work with Disney's Wish
It didn't work with The Woman King
It didn't work with Barbie's Live Action Movie
It didn't work with The Society of Magical Negros
It didn't work with Bros
It didn't work with The Marvels
It didn't work with Furiosa
It didn't work with Ahsoka
It didn't work with The Acolyte
It didn't work with Agatha All Along
It didn't work with Dustborn
It didn't work with Concord
It didn't work with Joker 2
*IT WONT. WORK. NOW.*
*STOP.*
*FUCKING*
*USING.*
*THIS.*
*EXCUSE.*
Because it's been *ELEVEN. FUCKING. YEARS.* And it's *STILL* Not Working.
Wow that is pretty comprehensive.
Who's money are they using to make the next one with?
You'd have to be mad to invest in it.
Wow! So many, many bad people loaded with sinful money.
I'm scared to total the monetary losses on all that; probably nearly ten billion at this point. Imagine what could have been created had the money been put to a useful purpose, instead of using woke studio projects/employees as a pass-thru to launder leftist political activism funding? I wonder what fraction of those billions turned into direct political donations, all in the same direction, not even counting in-kind donations, if one were to dig into the employees, contractors, vendors, etc?
Also, I just learned there was a second season of Velma
There was a new James bond film? Never heard of it.
Goated comment
"Toxic fans" is just "enthusiastic fans who aren't afraid to voice their objections to their beloved properties being shat on"
Im catching a lot of heat online for my strong and heavily defensible stance on this exact topic. I welcome it and usually bring up so many points of reference that they block me or give up after a few exchanges. I wish there were more of us who can see reason and logic instead of letting their identity being their entire personality to the point that they cant do anything but react emotionally instead of logically.
toxic = we can't pay them to advertise by proxy our garbage
All these battleterms which no one falls for.
To say it in warhammer terms...
*_" There have always been 'passionate' fans. "_*
"Toxic, -ist and -phobes", can these people at least come up with new/creative way to insult people? Oh right, they can't.
They can't even create their own creative fantasy/show/movies and need to hijack a well established IP/franchise with millions of fans.
Actually toxic racist and sexist fans probably make up 0.5% of the fan base and yet they act like it’s around 70%
Anyone who says toxic all the time is usually very toxic themselves
Anyone who says that entire fandoms are toxic are toxic themselves more accurately
If anything they're thankfully a minority
As within so without
It is one of those words isn't it?
I think the red flag with it is that it's just so nondescript, such a kneejerk term, that anyone with confidence behind their accusation will find it trivial to say something slightly more pointed. Seems like "toxic" gets used a lot by people that don't even want to begin trying to justify the insult.
And deluded.
Ain’t that the truth.
I wonder why Top Gun: Maverick didn't get a "toxic fandom"? Maybe because the makers didn't go out of their way to antagonise potential customers.
They also made an entertaining product that did fan service right, called back to the original movie and were rewarded by people going and seeing it multiple times, making them a shit-ton of money. Did anyone hate on the female pilot? Nope, because she was well written and acted. She *had* to go on the mission of course, because female, however she wasn't shown to be 1000x better than Maverick, JUST because she had boobies, and the makers didn't put her front and centre and make it all about her. She also failed during training, just like eveyone else, she wasn't supremely perfect in every way, like Rey was in the DIEsney SW Trilogy, or She Hulk in that abomination. She was like all the other pilots and the audience accepted her as a part of the team.
What the MSM and all these producers refuse to realize is that few audience members have issue with having female or PoC or LGBTQ or any other group in roles, as long as it makes sense why they are there and that it's not all about them, to the detriment of the story being told. Just yelling insuts at us is never going to work, they are not a monopoly and if we don't want to spend our hard earned money going to see some garbage that only exists to promote checkboxes, then we won't. They should also realize that when you point a finger and say " it's all your fault", there are three fingers pointing back at them.
I wonder why it’s not the subject of endless never ending screaming matches like TLJ is, gee maybe because Top Gun was not just objectively fun, awesome and wasn’t made with malicious intent
Maybe because it wasn't Sci-Fi or Fantasy being Destroyed by a Bunch of Loser Critics who hate the Genre! You People Crossed a Line with me going after Amazon's Rings of Power.... What others did to Star Wars and Star Trek gives you Haters No Blank Check with Me to Go After Good Things. Critial Drinker is playing a Zero Sum Gain trying to Come Up Off others by Tearing them Down, and oh I'll more than Give you the new Versions of Star Trek, and Star Wars, and the New Marvel Stuff, but Criticizing Rings of Power past Bad Casting and Sets for the Elves, and not enough Adventuring is just Pure Hating for Hating's Sake! You People get Rings of Power Cancelled like you did Halo, I'll go on the War Path and Do My Best to Have Your Loser Critics Cancelled as Well!
@@randyross5630
That's sweet honey, now take your medicine and go off to play with your dollies and leave the grownups stuff for later when Mr psychiatrist lets you out on probationary leave
@@randyross5630 Good luck on your crusade. You can start by not capitalizing random words. It comes across as unhinged. Also, you can't be a fan of Tolkien's writings and a fan of RoP at the same time.
Corpo 1: The fans hate our newest product.
Corpo 2: What?!? Did you call them bigots?
Corpo 1: Yes, several times.
Corpo 2: And they're still not buying?!?
Corpo 1: Yes.
Corpo 2: Inconceivable!!!
I just realized that in The Acolyte, the galaxy was ruined because a man didn't notice that a woman got a haircut.
That sounds like real life.
Sounds like my ex-wife, the destroyer of worlds.
Hahahaha... Facts
A perfect haircut using a light saber
This would actually have been a powerful scene if they'd actually used twins. He can't even tell them apart except superficially. Only nobody could it was the same person and they didn't even make the haircut subtly different.
Remember when D and D rushed the final season of Game of Thrones so that they can work on the Star Wars project that got cancelled anyway?
Pepperridge Farm remembers.
And in doing so - they destroyed what could have been a career defining legacy.
Shame.
Pepperridge Farms does not even remember how to make good chocolate chip cookies, very disappointed in the ones I recently bought, not how I remember them
And still, so many people dick ride those guys by giving then the out that the show went downhill because they ran out of source material to go off of. As if GRR Martin wasn't working along side them and telling them what would happen anyways. And further more, D & D made their own original portions of the show that were done well. That shit always pisses me off, and it's always from the same sorts of people who say that shit too.
The best part about all of that is seeing the way D&D crapped all over GoT in their rush to finish it so they could do Star Wars was a contributing factor in why the project they wanted to move on to got canceled.
I member
Just don’t recruit the Superfan who thinks Anakin blew up the Death Star.
The likes of sweet baby inc and black girl gamers call themselves super fans too. They market themselves as the solution to nasty PR issues. When that article talked about big companies hiring super fans to make their product more 'fan safe' why did I get the feeling they just meant hiring more activists.
@@Fe7Ace Because that's what they meant. Go look at the lineup of faggots that Amazon put on camera and called their council of super fans.
Wouldn't be so bad if he was a "superfan" instead of cast of a Star Wars show...
Who said that? I barely stayed awake for the original 3 and prequels, and even I know that's not the case.
Honestly, I don't care that much about some actors knowing the source material, especially side actors. Situation changes when they start to lecture you making incorrect references..
These people come in to a popular existing IP. They change it up, insert identity politics, force diversity, force lgbtq representation, retroactively change the lore, and deconstruct our favorite characters. We say, "we don't like what you've done to our franchise, so we won't watch anymore." That does not make fans toxic. That's just fandom. We are not obligated to consume their "new and improved" product. They are not entitled to our time and money.
And more.. you are *customers* who don't have to spend your time and money on a product.
The gall of these mouth breathers to literally Hi-Jack something, do as they please with it, then insult and attack the fans who point it out. They cant even realize how stupid and foolish and makes them look.
And it's a literal proven Hollywood mindset we see time and time again.
The Witcher series and what the showrunner did with her self insert fanfic was egregiously bad. It felt like the first shift in fandoms going "wtf are you trying to do to our established characters?" Instead of just falling in love with the girlboss stuff without questioning it.
The entire Disney Plus deconstruction of established Marvel heroes, becoming side kicks in their own show to some ultra awesome so good at everything badass strong woman that truly saves the day. While the hero is old and tired and not quite as good as the new woman. Every single one.
Diversity and LBGTQ+ by themselves aren't the problem. When the diversity doesn't make sense in the setting or when there is no reason for the audience to know the sexual orientation of the characters but knows anyway, that is the problem. Forcing something that doesn't fit the story, or adding in details that don't advance the plot or character, or enrich the setting, are the problem. People who don't respect the fundamentals of the storytelling art making stories, whether in a visual, audio, or written medium, is the problem, and fans can tell that.
They're not making these for the current fans, but marketing this product with IP visibility to pull in a whole new fandom of potentially more people. I don't think that demographic exists or if it does, even cares.
Hollywood has to blame anyone but themselves.
Hollywood? More like HOLY W0KE, am I right? 😏
Disney has not yet equalled the original Star Wars Trilogy. Just throwing money at it isn't the way to get a good movie.
@@LawfulBased Ryan is correct; this isn't about the actual awakened agenda; there's plenty of examples aside from the Barbie movie. It's entirely about corrupted, hateful, lazy Ho'Wood production.
If they don't...an awful lotta decision makers have to admit they need to be fired, if not prosecuted for sabotage.
@@paulmurgatroyd6372 They didn't have to equal the OT, or even the prequels. They just had to churn out a few decent movies and shows based on the IP that didn't diss it and the fanbase would have loved them for it. Instead, they put someone in charge who was both incompetent and driven by rage and jealousy who felt the need to ruin what came before her. They could have been so successful, swimming in money, if they'd simply picked someone who ddn't hate the brand.
They should be happy not getting my toxic money or toxic attention.
How can they keep count if you don't pay your tokens?
My money and attention are both toxic and they will see Neither.
They can't take any of your toxic money because they already overloaded the company with toxic assets.
Being a REAL fan of these franchises is being “hyper conservative” now. Wild.
There are many fans out there who are politically neutral.
@@liamphibia I'd argue most are. They simply don't care about politics and all this culture stuff, they just want to watch a good sci-fi action flick with characters they love. They never wanted any of this, that's why they walked away.
actually liking and enjoying culture is now called hyper conservative regardless of your gender, location or anything else for that matter.... not even the culture you like and enjoy, be it some manga, comics, tv show, movie, or even sport
@@liamphibia A fact you will *NEVER* see mentioned when *that cult* is in charge of the narrative.
It has to 100% binary for a multitude of reasons, the primary one being the only option available to consider is: You're either 100% wrong, or you're 100% right.
Which is straight out of ideologue playbook. I'm pretty sure dummies also believe it's "absolute" proof they're right, which in turn means, they have no reason to listen to anyone else, they already "know" they're right. 🙄
Anything they disagree with in any facet of society is “hyper right wing”
Lets be clear. As a female former Star Wars fan. I would have not watched the acolyte whether there were people on the internet complaining about it or not. From seeing advertising I could see there was nothing in that show for me to like and everything to dislike as they further damage a franchise I loved by trying to prop up bad guys and insult good guys.
You're not the only 1. People of color didn't tune in either, none of the people they targeted tuned in, why do they get mad at men?
I checked out when I found out Harvey Weinsteins acolyte was at the helm of this train wreck of a show
I cringed just looking at the adds. TLJ was bad enough to sit through, I'm not wasting brain cells on that garbage.
I have not like anything made by disney where it concerns Star Wars aside from Season One of Mandalorian and some very few filoniverse stuff. I still prefer the Karen Traviss books to filoniverse garbage. The best star wars movie is and always will be: The Empire Strikes Back
I knew from the first announcement that it wasn't going to be a show that appealed to me, being about a Villain Protagonist.
But it was the first interviews with Headland, where she reveales that she really didn't understand the Prequels and couldn't stop talking about how queer she was that really turned me off. I was like, "Ohhhhhh you're anti-Jedi, anti-Prequels AND an ideologue, that is NOT a good combination, this show is going to be INSUFFERABLE."
That "Toxic Fandom" is purely self projection
I'm gonna start referring to people who resist my attempts at purse snatching as "toxic pedestrians" and laugh my way to the pawn shop.
It's always projection, no such thing as toxic fandoms mate
I know most would agree with me that though
It really shows how you can dress up a negative concept with the right wording. "Toxic Fandom" means "Customers who choose not to buy our product and explain why in open forum". The fact that they're spinning that negatively at all is pretty fucked, to be honest.
@@ScrambledAndBenedictgood point. I'm scratching my head and wondering when my decision not to buy a crummy product or something I don't like, became 'toxic'.
@@alsmith9853 As soon as it meant not consuming their product and getting excited for next product.
Anytime they resort to name-calling, you know they have no real argument. Calling people racist, or misogynist, or TOXIC has become laughable.
The reason they do it, is because they want to politicize the concept of customers choosing to buy their products. Nobody can reasonably explain why it's bad, wrong, or immoral, for a customer to choose not to buy a product and then explain why in open forum. They'd get briganded in seconds for that. But, if they can spin it as a massive lockstep bigotry campaign, well, suddenly those customers sound like the bad guy. "Being harassed by bigots" sounds like a horrible victimizing event, while "losing money because our products aren't selling well" does not. They basically want to put fans in a position where they have to choose between buying and endorsing a product, or being sexist, racist, red-hat wearing bigots. It's essentially like hiring advertisers, except you're blackmailing them instead of paying them.
I could call woke people nutjobs, insane, and braindead, but the only thing those names can do is throw out insults; it takes compelling arguments to win a battle of words. I find that in these comment sections people usually show up with an entire army of compelling arguments, and the only retaliation that we are given back are once again more insults and name calling like school children on the playground.
The way they see it, they are trying to achieve equality of outcome. So if a non-white, non-male, non-straight, non-cis, non-fully-abled person fails, that is not an equal outcome, and is therefore bigoted. Just ignore all the white male straight cis fully abled people that have also failed, and it makes perfect sense.
Exactly 😑
"I cut my teeth in the trenches of the Somme! You LARP-ed your Santa Claus arse through Vietnam!" - J.R.R. Tolkien to George R.R. Martin in Epic Rap Battles of History
A men of culture...
ERB!
A long flight of stairs has long been Martin's Somme.
"You even stole my R R!"
So cool to see ERB commented on a random video i clicked.
George R.R. Martin hates people doing Game of Thrones fanfiction yet he doesn't bother finish writing his own novels at all.
Worse. He writes his own GoT fanfiction.
He doesn't have the time to finish his novels AND polish off 9 pizzas.
You just don't understand! Fascism is in the world and it makes him very sad and he can't write when very sad :
@@shaicat😂
Meanwhile jk Rowling who finished her series loves fan fiction and has always encouraged fan engagement.
Oh, and I laughed for 4 solid minutes at that "superfan focus group" bullschitt.
EVERYONE who read that with 2 or more neurons to rub together instantly figured out what it meant:
"We're gonna *pay* our biggest apologists on social media to do it in an official capacity! :D"
Yep. It'll be the so-called Tolkien superfans with the Rings of Power all over again.
@@md_vandenberg Seriously. I can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to think trying that again would be a good idea.
@@md_vandenberg Every time I hear "superfan" anymore, I always think of that group of idiots they found to hype the "Rings of Power" show.
@@wavion2 Yep, "superfans" that never picked up one of Tolkein's books, they just saw the movies....
A 'superfan' group implies something that is a dead giveaway...and it's that why should they even need fans? Shouldn't the people working on these movies be massive fans of Star Wars? ESPECIALLY the writers?!?!?! This clearly shows they don't give a rat's asshair about the franchises they destroy, and they just use it for the mighty name it will give them.
Good stuff from everyone, Chris Gore really nailed it that the industry is upset they cannot manipulate and control the mass audience's opinions. It is very similar to politics where they throw ad hominem's at anyone with a contrarian opinion.
If Gore could do that, you'd better believe he would.
I always use "customer" instead of "fan". Companies feel entitled to "fans" time and money. Companies have to make a product "customers" are willing to spend time and money on.
Well put. Good reminder
Exactly. Like all those toxic customers who hated New Coke
I do as well. Gary (Neredrotic) gets it, and makes that point as part of his outro.. the part where he thanks you for watching/listening, and for taking your precious time to hear him make his points, whether or not you agree with him! Cheers!
Notice how so many corporations now talk about “consumers” rather than customers? It is because they expect their “consumers” to swallow whatever they belch out.
Companies make products for consumers. Shareholders are the customers they want to please.
The issue, especially with actors, is that they are in a bubble where they are smart and beloved, and they're talking to people in that same bubble. That's why they're caught flat-footed when people outside that bubble react negatively. Such a reaction is beyond their ability to imagine.
I think it's worse; they're completely vacant. They regurgitate whatever hacky bullshit of writers on set all day, and are praised by directors and producers. They do it again on the Red Carpet, and glitterati worship them and give awards. They do it on the internet, and are mugged by reality. I think a lot of them are mentally deficient, or damaged, and basically can't distinguish their job from reality. Or that the reality where they are employed to say nonsense /for a living,/ is simultaneously occupied by who people don't pay them to say nonsense, and are in fact accustomed to nonsense being a very punishable offense in their daily lives (ranging from dismissal from a job to an ass-beating)
Schrödinger‘s Fan. Both dangerous and insignificant at the same time…
Blaming fans and using toxic fandom is like an excuse they always throw at or someone using on why they miss deadlines.
It's the same as that minority of people who say an entire fandom is toxic based off a few fans.
They're the only real toxic ones. Like nuxtaku, thankfully they're always a minority though
Own a vegan restaurant in a Texas cowtown? It's not your fault for offering a service no one wants in a given location, it's "toxic carnivores."
Own an ammo shop on a commune of Quaker pacifists? Again, "toxic Quakers."
Whenever you go into a free market, and make/do something... and not enough people will pay for you to make a living doing it? That's their fault. Automatically. Apparently.
Econ 101: If you want to sell lemonade? Go somewhere where they like lemons.
Progressivism 101: If you want to sell lemonade? Block off the street in a neighborhood where 1/4 people are allergic to citrus, and then yell that people who drive past are prejudiced if they don't give you money. With a megaphone.
It's like an excuse because it IS an excuse.
Does no one remember that old expression "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink?" If people think that a product is shit, no amout of buzz words or gaslighting is going to change their minds. And on the flip side, TH-camrs like these guys can't control how people think! If most of their "fans" agree with the "bigots," maybe it's about time they realize that the problem is the product they're making!
@@BumfluffAddlepate Exactly! Narcissism at its finest!
@@BumfluffAddlepate I guess around 2015-2020ish they really did have total control. Comments were deleted left and right for showing the slightest sign of nonconformity, but I think companies became a bit wiser and realized that alienating half of the audience means LOSING half of the audience; and really it was probably way more than half. These people got their party for about 10 years now while the rest of suffered. now I hope they see what it feels like.
See and then there's the old expression of well if you want something done right do it yourself. Same can be applied here at fans want things to be done correctly they should do it themselves but they won't.
@@DarksideGmss0513 It takes a lot to make and distribute a movie or TV show. It's not something you can just do overnight. Particularly if we're talking sci fi, the genre with the highest financial barrier to entry in the industry. And good luck getting financing for a proper movie these days without some ideological mandates from a company or investor courting an ESG score. There's a few rich people out there who have the money and the will to fund a decent movie, but they're all busy with other projects so good luck getting their attention. Then you've got hiring. Good actors and competent film crews are not easy to find, and your only option is going to be poaching personnel from the Hollywood studios. Again, not cheap, and might carry its own ideological complications again as your team brings a Hollywood mindset to your movie. You can find decent unknown actors, but if you want your movie to be financially successful, you need at least one star to bring people to a no name studio with a brand new franchise. If you're lucky, you could land one of the artist actors out there like Viggo Mortensen, but that's unlikely because of how selective those guys are. If I'm wrong and it's not this difficult to make a professional movie, prove me wrong and do it
They're trying to spike the punch of awesome stories with foul tasting poisonous agenda and then blame the fans when they get called out for ruining what made the punch great.
Joke r 2 is a real-time display of this lunacy venom
No way a “Social Media boot camp” could stop Rachel Zegler. You’d have to clockwork orange her.
Would it have been out of the question to hire a Nordic actress to play SNOW WHITE, maybe let them have some ''representation''?
It's "SNOW WHITE".
They showed me ultrawokeness
@@paulmurgatroyd6372just reminds me how much I’d like to see advertisements for a movie on the Epic of Mwindo starring Chris Pratt. The amount of screeching, good lord.
The LUDEVIKO TREATMENT
(spelling might be wrong)
@@paulmurgatroyd6372or atleast hire someone like Anya Taylor Joy or Brett Cooper (who is hired by The Daily Wire in their adaptation)
People who say “tHeSe sHoWs aRe fOr kIdS” are missing the point - these shows will influence the next generation and our culture for better or worse, and we should speak up… and look to how they did things in the past when we produce competing products.
If a “show for kids” is encouraging them to lust over the emo mass murderer who killed a bunch of her friends/mentor figures just because “omg he’s bathing, so hooot” then their argument is irrelevant
I’m uncomfortable with every story coming out these days is always about deconstructing the “hero myth” and making all villains sympathetic.
@@kaylahensley1581 They can’t write complex villains, so they write lousy ones that they claim were justified.
@@kaylahensley1581 Objective reality cannot be tolerated in a socialist regime; all must be defined by the state, otherwise when the state acts immorally (and it most certainly will), the peasants will take umbrage. That's the Ayn Rand angle. There's also the historical angle, which is that 'primitive' bronze-age Romans wrote at length about this exact topic and its danger to a society, a long, long time ago. And related to that last one, the Christian angle, which seems to describe the nature of our times and its danger perhaps most accurately of all, as the work of an evil entity, whose aim is to subjugate all to his will/consciousness, denying objectivity in all its forms, and confusing everything that can be perceived to bring it about.
@@kingleech16 I'd argue it's because they realized some time ago they were themselves villains, stopped studying classical heroic literature years ago, and as a result are unable to 'fake' heroic tales any longer. It was easier to hide their nature when they could endlessly repurpose Shakespeare or Pulp heroes; now they have to rely on what they know...which is villainous.
To paraphrase Venture Brothers; "when they see a good-guy being heroic, they think that he's a pussy, and they hope a much cooler bad guy kicks his ass."
Remember when Henry Cavill shut down that activist journalist who asked him a bait question about toxic fandoms? Beautiful.
Sooooo true. Henry is legend.
Yep, he’s a real one
@@crazyralph6386 Except he thinks Custodes leave Terra.
@@thomasbecker9676 Sometimes they do, but in single numbers.
If you want to talk about inconsistencies, blame Games Workshop for having convoluted lore. Like honestly, why were the Imperial Fists called back to the palace of Terra to defend it if that's supposedly the sole duty of the Custodes?
@@Eye_Of_Odin978 Dorn was the best fortress builder in the Imperium. Custodes are there to man the walls and fight things humanity isn't supposed to know about, not build shit.
40k lore was great until around the time fliers were introduced, and then the fluff was constantly changed to sell whatever new, overpriced, overpowered mini just arrived. I used to buy every novel BL published, and now I can't bother. I'll buy Abnett, but that's about it.
"We need to show them who's boss!"
That's the big problem for Hollywood right now.
They tried to show us... and to their horror, they realised we're the boss.
Whoever needs to say he is the king, is no real king
What's the opposite of a "toxic fandom" per MSM standards?
A compliant one?
(Toxic & proud, thanks much.)
I wouldn't say "compliant". What they want is clearly a *submissive* fandom.
But not in the hot, lingery & whip like of way.
Someone who doesn't think, and only consumes product before getting excited for next product.
DON'T ASK QUESTIONS. JUST CONSUME MEDIA.
Paid "superfans".
Yep, a submissive drone, aka a sweet baby.
I like to imagine Cocacola coming out with New Coke and blaming all the complaints on racist toxic fans
I've been thinking that for a few years now too. I hope Disney becomes a companion piece for that in business school. They're polar opposites in every way.
"You're just angry it's not WHITE like Crystal Pepsi!"
This comment is, unfortunately, timely with a very recent drama regarding custom cans and a certain carpenter that shall not be named...
Please don't tell me it's John Carpenter. I don't want him to turn on us.
They're ANTI-WHITE DEI training did that.
If you open your own restaurant you can make own menu. If you open a McDonalds, making Cheeseburgers is YOUR JOB.
Love this analogy
There is nothing wrong with experimentation though - if you suddenly hit on something like the McRib, it's fine to expand your menu. Just don't forget the guys who put you where you are to enable that experiment.
You don't hire a chef who then comes in - makes salad for everyone, despite people ordering burgers, and then allow that chef to call your customers 'man babies' when they complain.
And if it was decent salad, it would at least be a conciliation, but Rian Johnson took a big steaming shit in the dressing mix...
"We make crap but the fans are wrong for calling B.S." Gotta love Hollywood gaslighting
"No sense of history." Thank you, Chris. That's about right.
The real fans just want quality entertainment, not the trash Hollywood has been dishing out. 🎉
You know how Red Letter Media once made fun of media shills with the phrase "Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product"? Hollywood seems to believe that's what fans SHOULD be doing, rather than calling out the people responsible for screwing their favorite properties over and holding them accountable for their wrongdoings.
Yeah RLM are pretty accurate.
Also I think the Drinker has pretty much picked up where they left off.
Do you think RLM were too harsh when it comes to the Star Wars prequels?
Only if Gorge had not chickened out on jarjar being an evil mastermind, being the evil version of what Yoda was in empire
@@nicholasvinen nah, they were the correct amount of harsh. The prequels sucks (but for completely different reasons Disney's Slop Wars sucks)
People who make tv shows and movies have forgotten that they’re meant to make a product for us the consumer. And it is up to us of if it is worth our time and money. We don’t owe them anything. They take us for granted and complain that we don’t unquestioningly consume the bad product that they produce instead of learning from their mistake and trying something else.
Imagine this: they announce the remake of "The Notebook" and females go crazy with anticipation. The movie comes out and the love story lasts 3 minutes, both lovers get kidnapped by radical terrorists and the whole movie revolves about the rescue operation with Ben Foster leading the SEAL team in a gritty, brutal firefight.
Critics everywhere... "this is exactly what the romantic genre needed, 10 out of 10."
The unwanted side effect of subscription culture. "We already have your money, be happy with what we give you"
The "toxic fans" they refer to are just fans who are extremely passionate, and fans who don't want their favorite franchises changed and warped to the point of being completely unrecognizable.
We put 'Star Wars' on it! Why won't you buy it?!
"I am now putting a sticker that says 'Bugatti' on this tricycle. Why aren't *YOU* buying it, Ms Kennedy?"
@@ephraimwinslow To be fair, I put a sticker on a banana and the Louvre bought it...
You put THAT in Star Wars, and expect us to:
1. Not hate you for putting THAT in Star Wars.
2. Buy your chimera.
3. Consume your chimera.
4. Only say positive things about it.
If you have no fandom you are passionate about, replace "Star Wars" with "coffee" and imagine "THAT" is "horse piss". Sure, a couple of drops may not spoil a brew entirely, but when you start going half-and-half, it won't quite taste like coffee anymore.
Want to prove me wrong? Go ahead, try it. Maybe you'll like it. I don't want to hear any negative thoughts, though, so keep them to yourself. Just consume.
It's interesting that one of the only Disney Star Wars projects that the fans DID like, doesn't have Star Wars in its title (Rogue One)
'The internet printed on really thin sheets of wood' :-)
That nicely describes modern newspaper.
When 10 people vocally complain it's called "toxic fandom"
When 10 000 000 vocally complain it's called "general consensus"
Guess where currently is the Hollywood industry.
It's like Bill Burr said: "When women argue, if they're right then they are on point and stay on point until you're down on your knees begging for forgiveness. No problem with that, totally respect it.
"But if they're wrong, they go ROGUE. They start attacking your weaknesses, going after your insecurities. Just know that if this happens, you've won the argument. Don't let them get to you, bob and weave, take a knee and just run out the clock!"
That's it right there. Take a knee and run out the clock....
Fans: Stop the gay pls
Hollywood: ALL THE GAY
The enemy is simultaneously pathetically inept and terrifyingly powerful.
Words usually stop working when people stop caring.
Hollywood fails to understand that maybe its not the "toxic fandom's" fault for a movie failing. Maybe its just because the movie just flat out sucks
More of them know more than you realize.
They're just banking that they can erode standards through persistent saturation.
Next step will be restricting access to legacy media. Mark my words.
0:18 What in the stereophonic f*ck is a “social media boot camp”?
Stereophonic funk. If I ever make an album.
"How to not start fights online with your core audience for dummies"
@@somethinglikethat2176 Yup, down the hall from "How to Not Beat Your Girlfriend in Public, for Professional Athletes"
It’s like Fight Club - the first rule is…
Wack job gulag.
"The Audience is TOXIC"
They/Them are lucky not to live in an age where rotten 🍅 would be thrown at them for a bad performance.
You make a very good point. Man, imagine if Studio Audiences were still a thing, and dreck like the Acolyte or even better, Agatha All Along, was put before them?
This is so messed up. Do NOT let these people flip this around. THEY infected the IP before the OG fans became toxic. Alright? We didn't START anything. We REACTED.
I love how they think they can keep gas lighting people and think it's going to work one day
what was that old definition of "insanity", again? oh right, repeating the same thing and expecting different results... Cheers!
Well, for a long time it used to work, and these idiots seem dead set on refusing to adapt to the way things work now.
Not gaslighting. No one is attempting to make us think we are going insane. That is the definition of gaslighting from the movie Gaslight.
They can't claim toxic fandom if only 3 people watch the show. The reality is that they could claim that back before people realized that the shows/movies weren't worth watching at all. But after 2 or 3 shows/movies, people just became apathetic and stopped paying attention at all. Basically they can't claim that they are receiving "millions of people sending them hate mail" if the ratings show that only a hundred thousand people have actually watched the thing at all.
I feel these studios are missing the point. Make your show in an established IP for the fan base, don't make it for outside that demographic.
The 18 year old female, on average, is not buying the merchandise. However the 30+ year old super fan will, probably, drag his non fan girlfriend along for the ride.
The inflammatory remarks have a long tradition in "high" culture, in which artists willingly badmouth the audience to produce "high art" or to distance themselves from their audience, who they secretly hate or think lowly of and want to "re-educate" in a progressive direction. In that sense, what we have here now, is a "literarization" of the Entertainment Industry. Trends that were already common in prose literature and the theatre, now flowed into Comics, Movies, Games...
The problem is that Comics, Movies and Games are not financed by taxes but by the private money of the audience. That is different to prose literature of "high culture", which is financed by awards and the public hand (at least in Europe) and theatre, which also could not exist without somebody in the city or the state financing it.
Thus, we have a kinda mismatch of what you can do to the audience and how the audience can reciprocrate. And that is dawning slowly in the minds of the executives in Hollywood and beyond. Historically, the media where you can badmouth the audience is low cost media, where poorly made movies or stage plays can be financed without problems. This is is not the case with blockbuster movies and TV Shows. There you have very high costs, that need to be brought in by selling of tickets or subscriptions. You also need to get some kind of profit, break even is not gonna cut it for you. Actrices like Tatiana Maslani and Brie Larson want the studios to behave like bolshevik state financed media outlets, and pay them high salaries for screaming at the audience they secretly hate. That is not viable. It is also not american. Shit, it isn´t even european, really.
Only disagree with you calling it not European
@@grantflippin7808 I know. It is so entrenched in european culture, it is sad, actually.
There's enormous nostalgia in the MSM for the days when they got to control what the story was, decide who could and could not speak: and when no one could fact check them or challenge their narratives. You can see it in entertainment, culture and politics: and they're all snarling for some form of either hard or soft censorship to try and get back that total control.
Having the internet take that control away makes me think of the Wizard of Oz, where the curtain was pulled back, and the wizard shouts, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"
@@MaryRohwer Indeed - we've seen that these people who were always able to portray themselves as the gods of truth and virtue, are the most petty, spiteful and dishonest people imaginable.
@@incurableromantic4006 The Rachel Zegler interview with Halle Bailey interview looked like every Disney interview I've ever seen where all the young Disney actors sit around and say how they are all best friends and how everything is so funny.
That might have worked a few years ago, but with the internet exposing everything, it looks like Disney is a one-trick pony and needs to DO BETTER at garnering support.
Nailed it. They are coming for Elon Musk. They don't mind when contrary voices are forced to use minor platforms such as message boards or Truth Social but when Twitter/X allows the other side to speak they lose their mind. Legacy media hates Twitter/X in particular because it effectively counters their agreed narrative.
I don't think we're toxic enough, nothing is more poisonous to an entertainment or media company than an absentee audience, which they have been asking for so long by telling us that what they're making is not for us, we should just give them the toxicity they want rather than actually trying to tell them they're doing something stupid or wrong.
It was said in one of my favorite movies,Gladiator..."Win the crowd"...they do the opposite of this which is hilarious & "weird,weird">
When Coca Cola introduced New Coke, and it proceeded to flop magnificently, they didn't call the fans toxic and blindly push onwards like a stubborn mule. They pivoted and stopped making it, then kept selling what made them a profitable company.
Some say New Coke was never intended to stick around for long, and was just a way to introduce high fructose corn syrup as the sweetener in "Coke Classic" under guise of a return to form...
Studios like Lucas Films and Marvel Studios that struggle with their television shows often resort to blaming "toxic fans" for their failures, rather than confronting the reality of their poor creative choices. This scapegoating overlooks significant issues such as inadequate writing, weak storytelling, and lazy production values, which contribute to the lackluster reception of series like "The Acolyte" and "Agatha." By failing to take responsibility for these shortcomings, studios not only alienate their audience but also underestimate viewers' ability to discern quality content from poorly executed narratives. This pattern reflects a troubling trend in the entertainment industry, where accountability is sacrificed in favor of deflecting criticism onto an audience that is often more engaged and discerning than studios acknowledge.
I like how they point out the problem is they aren't making any new material, by bringing up the franchise economy. But they conclude the fans are wrong for wanting their stuff protected rather than getting on the studios to make better original products
Toxic fans is code for we know who our fan base is but think we can persuade it to be something else.
Toxic fans = People that are vocally intolerant of untalented and immoral people ruining their favorite franchises.
They're angry about us shitt'n on the things they like, which are the things we liked that got shat on.
" Full circle" ;Disparu.
Good point about the huge Tolkien fan base. Imagine if Amazon made a super faithful, carefully researched Tolkien show?
Hell, imagine if Amazon made an unfaithful, poorly researched, but still entertaining story that had Hobbits and Mordor in it? I'd definitely take that at this point, and happily debate lore-goons that they should still be satisfied...because that's essentially what the Peter Jackson movies were! Gunpowder in the Third Age...bah, how ridiculous...
TH-camrs are just a small loud minority, its just that your opinions happen to often align with the large silent majority. the only difference if the there were not TH-camrs the shows would just be silently failing, maybe a little more slowly, but the fate would be the same in the end.
I agree with this. There are plenty of times that I would not have known a movie existed if it were not for the TH-camrs bashing it. And I've gone back and watched older shows because TH-camrs were talking about it.
Exactly. I found this channel because I was trying to find out if movies were all becoming garbage or it was just me going crazy.
@@nicholasvinen I had that same kind of experience. I watched the Flash (the one from the Arrowverse) and couldn't believe that the show was actually trying to tell the audience how to feel. Unbelievable! But every review I saw told me it was the best show on television. That was also hard to believe considering how they were bringing characters over from Arrow to help save it, or, at least, that's how it looked to me.
To see a review that brought up THE MESSAGE was a welcome change.
The fact that there is a such thing as a “franchise economy” is ridiculous. It’s not just a genre trend like westerns or slashers where they come in, drive the box office, and then goes away. They’re truly counting on this to be their bread and butter as opposed to making a mix of high profile star driven vehicles, and mid to low budgeted things like romcoms that are low risk/high reward.
"But why won't they watch my Star Wars themed Pride fantasy? I worked a whole ten minutes on that script! Oh, it must be the FANNNZZ! RAWR!"
Here in the Netherlands we say: bijt niet in de hand die je voedt. Which translates to: don't bite in the hand that feeds you.
The effort you put into this is so clear!
Fandom hasn’t changed. Producers and studios have. The fandom has always been there looking forward to new things. These activists are the ones who have changed it all. They’ve turned on the fandom and made them the enemy. Fans didn’t change. The way they get treated has. These companies no longer care about the customers who got them to where they are in the first place.
If Mace Windu had a good show and he remained as badass as he was in the prequels, everyone would cheer. If we get shit like the acolyte, only activist cheer, and there aren't that many.
Yeah, but Sam Jackson probably wouldn't agree to a bunch of feminists making his character a whiny, feckless bitch. It'd damage his brand (since he always plays the same character). Seeing as Jackson /will not/ turn down a job offer, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what went down behind closed doors between Mrs. Kennedy and Jackson's agent.
How exactly was he "bad@$$" in the prequels? He did nothing. And this is not a slam on the actor, it's a slam on the character.
@@christophertheriault3308 He was Sam Jackson, ergo he was badass by definition. Just roll with it, Star Wars fans should be used to cool-looking characters that don't do anything being heaped with admiration.
Why are you not just eating ze bugs?
Having Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy produce a Star Wars movie is like letting a propagandist from Mao's Cultural Revolution write amendments to the US Constitution.
People are tired of being SHAMED by the SHAMELESS...
They made the rod for their own back by creating garbage on purpose they knew fans would loathe.
Saw this twice and it still hits!
1:34 Don't ask Questions! Just consume product then get excited for next product.
You can't guilt people into liking stuff.
Nailed it right there.
The devil can't create anything new. He can only corrupt.
"toxic fandom" = people with standards
turns out the toxic fans were the ones with all the money
True! And we don't buy merch connected with progressive lectures.
@@sloths-df3gf nice job, you got the joke
The "my turn" mentality, entitlement, that "now that I'm making MY movie, it's definitely going to succeed, just like every hit before me". Then the numbers don't match and it's not from their incompetence.
Blaming "toxic fans" was always a dishonest excuse.
What's happened is what I refer to "Reverse Glasnost." In the mid 1980's Mikhail Gorbachev (then premier of the Soviet Union) sought to reinvigorate Soviet political, commercial and social life. So he enacted several programs, one of which was called Glasnost (opening in Russian) where they relaxed a lot of the governmental constraints on speech, literature, journalism, religion and entertainment. This was all done as part of a larger effort to breath new life into the USSR and keep the country going. Instead it was another series of nails in the Soviet coffin. The thing that happened was that once people were free to criticize the Soviet government that's exactly what they did, and they were able to gather people behind them and form true organized blocs of opposition to the Communist government and it's satellite states. Many of these critics actually became major active political players in post communist eastern Europe, including leaders in Russia, Poland and the former Czechoslovakia.
Now how does this relate to the panel on Open Bar? Well, because TH-cam basically allows people to talk to just about anyone on the planet, there's been a whole series of cottage industries that have grown up around covering news, sports and in this case entertainment. As major news outlets, legacy publications and mainstream television channels have basically collapsed into solipsistic navel gazing (the fact that such outlets are owned by the same entertainment companies the TH-camrs are criticizing isn't lost on me) and stopped providing real, actual news, commentary and editorial pieces and devolved into semi corporatist propaganda if not outright government and media narrative enforcement the door has opened for people like Drinker, Mauler, Az, Gary, Quarter Black, Platoon, Cynic, Badger, Robot Head, Disparu, Jedi Brooks, Reaper, Shad, Comix, Odin, Eric July, Gore & Ng, Mexican Ironman, Chato, Ruined Leon, Sidescrollers, Razorfist, RK, DDAY, MelonieMac, X-Ray Girl, Star Wars Girl, Kirshe, Gothix, Chrissy Mayr and Snarky Jay (among many other wonderful people) to all make their various criticisms on movies, entertainment, politics and culture. Because they're all intelligent people who make logical, intellectually solid, and often extremely funny arguments about why a lot of movies, video games and television are bad these days. Because they're good at what they do they're able to get people behind them, and this causes problems for the studios because at this point all of these TH-camrs have essentially formed organized blocs of opposition to the major entertainment companies and can push back against "The Message" because they can give people the intellectual tools to explain why movies and TV are bad and why the current narrative doesn't work.
You make movies and shows to please a fanbase if it already exists. You don't make them to please only you and your 5 friends. We have a bunch of perverts and adult pretenders ruining everything.
Let's try this in different fields:
"Are you finished with that program?"
"Yes, here it is."
"Umm... our users say that the program throws an unhandled exception error."
"They're racist!"
"Nurse, did you administer the pre-op alprazolam?"
"Yes. The patient died."
"WTF? How much did you give?"
"1g, like you wrote."
"I WROTE 1mg!!!"
"You're racist!"
Hm. Actors, professional liars, lying professionally. Who couldve foreseen this?
They are realizing in the hard way that customers have the power and they are getting more and more nervous, just look at what's happening in the game industry. Keep fighting the good fight guys 💪💪
Imagine a business stupid and arrogant enough to blame their customers for their own failures.
Good lord Disney's trash.
I'm 100% sure being called toxic by the real toxic people is a praise at this point
It's like they have no understanding what a FAN is in the first place. We are fans because we love it way above other things.
I used to work with a guy who would enthusiastically try to go to nearly every new film at the cinema, and his reaction to every new movie from an established franchise is exactly what I think these studios hope people will react:
Him: "Yo! Did you see there's a new [insert well-known title here] coming out?!"
Me: "yeah but it doesn't look very good."
Him: "Whaaaat?! But it's [well-known franchise]! It can't be crap!"
Hollywood writers; “we are ALL so awesome and EVERYTHING we write is a timeless classic! There is nothing at to criticize, we are perfect and you WILL watch anything and everything we put out. And you will be THANKFUL we are blessing you mortal peasants with such godly gifts!”
2:19 They don't just rely on it, they depend on it. They expressly want to use an existing franchise as a vehicle to proselytize that franchise's fans. The Acolyte is the God's not Dead of Q-Theory.
I remember when the toxic fandom tried to get the game Hogwarts Legacy boycotted by attacking the author of the books for something she wrote on twitter, but that didn't put a dent in its sales. So if a product doesn't do well, maybe it's because the majority of the consumers don't like the product?
If the promotion of a product emphasizes a DEI talking point more than any other quality of the product, it's safe to assume that the product is going to be trash. The industry has chosen "the message" over story telling.
It is simply honesty. They have none our favorite TH-camrs do. Simple.
They're still opting for the "nowerenot" method.
They also don't get that it's falling on deaf ears for a lot of people now.
I'm looking forward to Andor S2. I'm interested in The Penguin because of Drinker and co. We need honest critics. Thank you for all that you do
You can't really get indignant when the dog you beat stops greeting you at the door.
It's amazing that the producers are saying that they have to stick to established franchises because of all the toxicity, when the bitterness and outrage came from their relentless attack on every IP that fans actually enjoyed. Remember the wide-eyed innocence and boundless enthusiasm that preceded the Star Wars prequels? Sure, there have always been malcontents who balk and cry foul whenever their headcanons are upset, but most of us learned our cynicism after repeated disappointments, broken promises, and direct insults to us or our intelligence.
What does "too much criticism" actually mean? From what I've seen, any criticism is too much and any reaction from the fanbase to the slop they're serving us that falls short of fawning adoration, is toxic.
You just posed an incisive question, and you have an INGSOC display pic.
You're already cynical enough to know that they would wriggle like electrified worms in response to said question if asked directly.
@@WOranos I mean of the criticism was death threats kr something reprehensible then yeah but that's normally not the case