I NEED people to appreciate the editor putting hitches and stutters in the video as Linus is saying that could happen with the ram. Absolute genius and watched it probably 5 times just appreciating it @4:00
That was soo cool! I was like "Wait a minute? Did that just?" and needed to rewind, confirm, and jump to the comments section to verify. Nice little easter egg. Well done, editor(s)!
@@CarTorqSA Sometimes I wonder why I bother on making comments on TH-cam. But glad I was able to brighten your day. Unless your comment was to Hayden, in which case I say the same on their behalf. Cheers.
The answer to ddr5 is literally ddr4. There's no reason at all to let ddr5 bother you this early in the game. The vast majority of users aren't even fully utilizing what ddr4 has to offer. Let the scalpers keep their boxes of ddr5 sticks like idiots. Ddr5 still has places to go and things to do before it gets my money.
@@AsbestosMuffins only some boards are ddr4, and none of them support both ddr4 and 5 on one board - just fyi, since your comment makes it sound like all of the intel boards support both concurrently
When I learned the timings of DDR4 was in the double-digits, I doubted if it could top DDR3. I was used to seeing 7-7-7-15 and then DDR4 comes out with double that. Now DDR5 is double even THAT, so I don't see a point in getting 5 for at least 4 years.
@@StapleCactus well ddr5 cl32-7200 is the same speed as cl16-ddr4 3600 (when we talk nano seconds, not data transfer) so we will see overall faster ddr5 within the next 12 months I would guess.
@@JasperSchwinghammer it took 14 months from launch for good ddr4 kits to hit the market..prices dropped in half around the same time..with the supply issues i could see it taking 18-24 months from launch for good ddr5 kits to come out and for prices to drop
I'd like to see LTT put DDR5's increased reliability to the test by running DDR4 vs. DDR5 in an environment where memory errors are likely to occur. Ideally this would involve sticking a chunk of plutonium next to the RAM to bombard the chips with ionizing radiation, but in a pinch, I suppose severe overclocking would produce acceptable test results too.
What's worse than the scalping is when the "retail" price on these stores suddenly shoots up to match the scalper prices. Same thing happened with the 30 series graphics cards
Honestly this is one product I don't mind scalpers buying the full stock of and I'm even thankful for them doing so. They are keeping everyone who have to spend their money kind of responsible from buying bad performance/$ kits and they also pay the early adopter tax for us. So they are basically financing the development of proper ddr5 kits. For once they are kind of useful. 😄
I think you can watch a video on "Does RAM speed matter?" made on LTT which kind of explains the meaning and process of these words and how a ram works
I don’t think these scalpers are doing this because it makes any sense. I think people are looking at the GPU mess, and trying to cash in on scalping whatever new tech comes out even if they know nothing about it. There’s a lot of people who have taken scalping to the next level and made it their entire source of income after getting laid off due to Covid, and the only way to fight it is to just not buy from them. The Ebay market for this stuff needs to crash and burn, but people see the high price tags and snatch it up thinking they’re gonna be able to resell it themselves, or thinking that it must surely be valuable before even learning about the product at all. It’s not easy when nobody’s sure what the hell is going to happen to their money in the next two years.
Covid is big reason this all started when covid happened.It has slowed down Manufacturing too so covid is biggest reason for all this mess.Crypto mining always be there but covid is big reason for this shortage
@@johnnyboogalo4897 For real. Miners by themselves weren't a monumental issue. Sure we saw upped prices, but it wasn't multiple times MSRP for new products much less used ones.
I'm still using DDR3 and I am happy, play all latest games, do video editing, no problem, I'm not in a rush to buy DDR5 anytime soon - the entire PC market is overshadowed with scalpers and scammers - it's a shame that hardware manufacturers let this happen - Once upon a time you could easily order parts online, not anymore, everything is not available, it's pathetic........
We dont really need it...... I mean, just have a decent CPU and GPU and 16 GB of RAM (any gen) and you are fine. Even the latest, most demanding games require only 16 GB of ram for highest settings......... I know some of them who bought 32 - 64 GB of DDR2 and DDR3 ram back in the days just for gaming purposes. I told them, but they didnt listen, now we see that it was just waste of money, even first 8 core cpus from AMD were bad for gaming, even today not all games can use properly 6 - 8 core CPUs ( plenty of them). Even SSDs are not used to the fullest...... in every game and scenarios because there are still many random reads involved. Direct Storage is not here anytime soon and what about wide adoption etc.......
This just proves that scalper situation is even worse then we thought, ddr5 proving here that those scalpers *aren't even tech savvy* . And someone who can't even tell me what RAM stands for, selling me it at double the price sounds horrifying.
That's why he suggested scalping game consoles. Huge pre-ordered supply, solid supply chains, many legitimate sellers. The supply will drown unprepared scalpers. It's not like when I was in high school when the PS3 was going for $8,000 on ebay.
Bro, scalpers are primarily made up of gamers. We buy and sell pc components all the time. Even if we didn’t know a ton about it, that doesn’t make it not profitable
You see the thing im fearing with the introduction of DDR5 is that magically DDR4 is going to become nonexistent just like what happened with DDR3. there was a period of time where you just couldn't buy 3rd party DDR3 Memory or motherboards compatible for DDR3 and all you were left with is MBs for DDR4 and DDR4 costing upwards of 600 to 400 dollars.
but used ddr3 sticks are dirt cheap. So I think used ddr4 sticks would also become super cheap. Which is great because ddr4 is rly good for a long time still
@@merfax0000 That's BS though. A few years ago is when I was messing around with Chinese X79 motherboards regularly and getting DDR3 for those systems was always cheap and easy.
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Linus and his team always finds the most interesting things to talk about
Something to consider regarding this subject, ASUS demonstrated a DDR5 to DDR4 converter so you can plug DDR4 memory into DDR5 slots, and it has all the power circuitry etc needed to do it on its board. It is not currently a product but if it does make it to market, it might be a RAM scalper killer and might also give life to DDR4 kits people have before they move to a new DDR5 kit.
4:00 Nice effects the video artists are putting to showcase stutters when Linus talks about it. Nice touch indeed :) You are using the visual medium well.
I gotta admit, I had planned to build a Flight Sim rig when DD5 launched to replace my circa-2013 Haswell with a GTX1070. When everything went out of stock, and seeing the massive Black Friday savings on DDR4, I opted for a DDR4 build and I'm happy. This video confirmed my suspicions. So far my i9 and 3080 (thank you EVGA) are working phenomenal with 32GB DDR4. Of course the week after I built it, I won my first Newegg Shuffle for DDR5 & Mobo combo....rip
Honestly.... just resell the MOBO and DDR5 at MSRP to an actual gamer, one who's on a budget. Thnk about it, you'd have to buy a new CPU and rebuild your PC almost entirely (hours of labor which, based on your salary, might not even equal the value of the parts you got off Newegg). Wait for 13th Gen Intel or the next Ryzen series before buying a DDR5 kit, otherwise you're just throwing hours of your free time and potentially thousands of dollars down the toilet.
Yeah at this point, might as well wait, gonna run my ddr4 setup until its actually necessary to upgrade lol, I ran ddr3 since launch till 2 years ago and then went into DDR4, I think a current DDR4 system should last the average gamer at least another 5+ years before its actually a problem.
i'm still on 16gb DDR3 i7 4770k & 1060 6gb , runs most new games at decent FPS , just bought a new Gaming laptop (i5 11'th gen,16gb ddr4, 3060 6 gb maxq) and it's only about 20% faster than the PC so i know that if i upgrade the PC i'd probably get 50% but at a much higher cost than the laptop, will prolly just switch to laptop for more demanding games for a few years and then upgrade PC when both are outdated
Yes. As a good indicator, I'd advice to invest in new ddr5 kits when you see prices for ddr4 going up (due to lack of demand and thus lowered production). It's typically a decent tell that the market has decisively shifted to the new platform, and software/game developers are now taking full advantage of the latest gen hardware. As an example, early gen ddr4 is often pricier than current high gen ddr4.
Instead of building DRAM from silicon transistors and a metal capacitor built above it, use a second transistor as the capacitor and build them both above the silicon from oxide semiconductors. Two research groups showed that these transistors could keep their data way longer than ordinary DRAM, and they could be stacked in layers above the silicon, giving a much shorter path between the processor an its precious data.
LMG - great work as always! Keep it up! Video suggestions: with high refresh rate screens there is now an issue with the "optimal screen performance". Contents look best when they are more colour accurate, with higher levels of brightness, performing at a constant fps well above the 60fps mark. Now with the whole rainbow variety of display panels in laptops which is the best, the second best, the third? If you guys can do an investigative video on that perhaps publish an annual ranking of screens at the end of the year for the laptops released that year... Could make for very relevant content. Especially considering that it is impossible to make out which screens are the best in any video reviews. I have been having the hardest time filtering out whether to get a legion, an omen or an rog where my decision is now hinged upon the quality of screen performance (they all have parallel specs). I would trade off some performance potential on spec sheet for the most optimum viewing experience for media, games, word, excel and browsing... Thanks :) Standard config: rtx 3060 with i7 or ryzen 9 and a second config one notch lower on the graphics card. Target FHD and QHD dismissing 4k on laptop up untill that time that we can get 3090 performance out of an air cooled laptop GPU (could happen) . Second suggestion: Windows laptops now moving further away from repairability and upgradability for ex. alienware has gone through the length of installing the mobo in reverse soldered ram chip where you can't see it... Other manufacturers following the trend of appleization. ROG did it, HP omen has a single nvme slot... It's like they don't want these units to last long and they are articulating it in the design language... Whatever happened to right to repair? And now upgrade? You guys can make a top five list of most easily upgradable laptops at the end of the year because that is also something the users need (right now, IMO, legion is no.1 on that but let's hope it doesn't change for them too moving forward.) Thanks again!
I personally have a Legion 5, and I not only attest to the quality of the screen, but even the wifi card is upgradable lol. It has 2 M.2 slots, both accessible, both sticks of ram are removable, and there’s even room to go from a 60 Watt hour battery that mine came with to an 80 watt hour battery. The only things that you can’t swap out, obviously, are the CPU and GPU. Hope this helps!
@@ian.williamson thanks Ian I was already leaning towards legion(s) especially after daily driving thinkpads for office work - the quality, durability and upgrading is great. For gaming now I will go gor legion. I had an ROG Strix Scar 2 with an RTX 2070 and 144hz refresh. It had the issue of the stationary arm shadow from after having played fps' for a couple of hours getting temporarily burned in to the screen. I flipped it for 0 profit 0 loss. Downgraded to a used older gen GTX machine. Now for future will get the legion. Thanks again brother!
well to be fair, they knew sure as hell that they wouldn't be able to sell any of their 12th gen chips if buyers were hard bottlenecked by ddr5 scalper prices lol. Its bad enough as it is to invest in a new mobo platform, let alone a set of ddr5 that atm costs the same as a high tier gpu at msrp
@@joelimmanueloelsner9211 technically, yes, but the challenge is: to find certified motherboards to work with DDR3 slots on the 9th Gen platform or below, which is going to be tricky, since it's not officially supported
I'm currently at stock speed with my 32gb of DDR4-3600 as my pc seems to run at really smooth speeds. Should I try to overclock it anyways? and will it affect lifespan of the ram sticks?
@@9livespending You would need to tell anyone more about your system before they could offer advice. Motherboard and CPU details for a start. Then perhaps details of the make and model of the RAM. Should you try? I would say not, if you are even needing to ask. Will it affect lifespan - not if you don't screw it up (use sensible voltages and keep an eye on the temperatures). You are more likely to mess up a perfectly good Windows installation with file corruptions if you don't test properly, than to cause physical damage to the RAM. If I overclock RAM I test the hell out of it with Memtest86 before I even try to boot back into Windows. And make sure you've got good backups, just in case it all goes wrong.
@@GodmanchesterGoblin Oh you're right, I apologize. My specs are: B-550f Motherboard (Asus ROG), 4x TridentZ(8gb) 3600hz RAM, 750w PSU Windows 10 Pro CPU liquid cooler & fan cooling combo
@@9livespending OK - In summary I would probably not change it unless you feel confident and can recover easily in the event of trashing the operating system. Reasons: You've already got four sticks and that will always be harder to overclock than if you have just two. Also (and I am guessing), if you have Ryzen 3xxx or 5xxx for example then 3600MHz RAM is already a very good match to the Infinity Fabric in the CPU which is generally optimal at 1800MHz. If you have CL16 RAM, you could try squeezing the timings down, but that will depend on how much slack there is in the timings, and it could take a bit of effort. CL14 is a big step from CL16 as a percentage You might gain just a very few percent in performance on mixed workloads. I also have four sticks G.Skill Trident Z Neo at 3600 but CL18 (64GB total). I got my timings from CL18-22-22 to CL16-21-21 keeping speed at 3600 but I had to take the RAM to 1.425 volts. I pulled in a few other timings as well. However, as mentioned before, do your testing with Memtest86 or similar (from a USB stick) so that you minimise the risks to your installation. If you can run for several passes with zero errors then you can try Windows again. I used y-cruncher (calculating Pi to a few billion places) as a benchmark - the change in RAM timings gave me around a 5% boost. Good luck! Oh, and last point, if you ever want to update the BIOS, I suggest you do that with default RAM timings (it's always safer) and be prepared to retune the RAM in the event that the updated timings don't work after an update. Been there, done that, etc.
There already is. It's called have a brain and don't anything. Scalpers only exist because people will buy it. If there was no demand there would be no supply
i just wish the manufacturers would get involved , like release a first batch of a new product over the usual price and threading the "out of stock margin" till the scalpers had enough to buy then freaking flood the market dropping the price to they're usual target
Bless the early adopters who are paying more adopter tax than usual. We salute you! You are making DDR5 better for when most of us eventually buy in... next year or later.
Well, let's be fair, I'm not gonna buy some RAM that's 1 year or more shaved off its warranty after (hopefully) a scalper had it stuck on their shelf when the prices eventually do come down. Especially so when I can get it from a store, have full warranty and guarantee that it has never been used before. Either way, thanks to everyone who is contributing to paying the early adopter tax and making DDR5 better for when anyone sensible does buy it but count me out of paying early adopter tax. I'll stick with DDR4 for now, it does what I need.
@@ghajik.not really you can get a pc for around as much on terms of specs (excluding peripherals but you'll want to use external monitor with a laptop anyway) and someplaces 3060 ti drop to reasonable pricing and laptops have no upgradability and are the equivalent of a high power heater
@@David-tz1oi but most people don't upgrade as often, and the cpu socket is gonna go outdated and you might have to change your motherboard and cpu and so on...the case might be the only remnants of what it originally was and everything else changes in around 5 yrs. While laptops, you can run them for around 5 yrs with the additional benefit of getting extra real estate (if you have an additional monitor) and buy a new laptop if necessary...It may cost a bit more but the price to time isn't much of a difference than how much you'd save with subsequent upgrades to your PC. ALSO you get the added bonus of gaming on travel.
@@ILoveTinfoilHats They can't have the same latency as they have different speeds though. The speed affects the latency! Slower cards have lower latencies than fast cards!
As a PC Builder currently in the middle of building a new rig, clearly DDR4 is the way to go. Sure, somewhere a few years down the line DDR5 will probably be the way to go, but for now it's not worth it.
I unfortunately already bought a motherboard that is ddr5 only and assembled the PC complete less the ram thinking my order wouldnt take long and not being aware of the current shortage, now I'm just stuck waiting for some ram.
Same, I just finished my build as DDR 5 was released/launched but for my needs. A 32gb kit of DDR 4 was more than enough. I'm encountering no issues at all. It's only a 2666mhz kit too. Boosted of course! Ha ha ha. Does me fine.
*HUG!!!* YES YES YES YES!!! Here is my take for all these people with FOMO. You're looking at prettygirls in red dresses, but forgot the average person isn't an agent, and average person will stick with you for life!
I was wishing for someone on YT to benchmark different gen RAMs at comparable speed, everyone did their test with like DDR5 4800-5200, and DDR4 3200-3600, so the speed was something that could affect the performance, and a high speed DDR4 is cheaper than a new low speed DDR5, so thats something to have in mind. Thanks Linus
Huh... I don't see the point but I mean with tighter timings on ddr4 I don't see ddr5 have a lot if any edge to slice with soo ddr4 would win Aaaand... Yeah that is the end of it :/
Okay,just for idea of measuring some sort performance difference of architectures - 2x32 DDR5 channels vs 1x64 DDR4. Then lets not only decrease DDR5 frequency,but also increase DDR4 timings so they would match the spec.
What we REALLY need is anti-scalping laws put into place to prevent this crap. And companies that care enough to put effective prevention measures in place.
Laws would make this problem way worse. The only possible solutions are to raise the MSRP to reflect market value, or to build more factories to increase supply. Laws would do neither.
@@rustler08 I would like to see some sort of legal solution. We have car dealerships marking up the price $10K because they can, not because that’s the cars value. It’s exploitation and damn near blackmail as far as I’m concerned. Nobody’s forcing you, but if you need something, what alternative is there? I don’t know what would actually work, but we need to Start somewhere, and you’re probably right about where we should start because I don’t see politicians lifting a finger any time soon.
@@sagebias2251 if MSRP goes up, scalpers will just charge more, that’s probably not a good idea. I’m sure there’s a limit, but it would eventually get to a point where nobody wants to buy anything nor could they afford to, and the market collapses.
Man I love the little detail that you made Linus actually "hitch" and "stutter" when he said that the 10% difference in F1 2021 could lead to just that! Great job! Love it!
no one buys into 12th gen with the intention of using the iGPU. early adopters are nerds with big pockets. this only makes a difference for laptop where the processors are completely different.
@@darklordzqwerty but AMD will be using DDR5 soon and they have MANY APU's (also known as iGPU's) so that could be VERY interesting ya know... especially now when Intel XE is there too and dGPU's are like unobtainium
Now the only Alder Lake CPU officially in the market is the "K" SKU . People who buy unlocked "K" SKU CPU are enthusiasts that will have discrete GPU, who will not give a hoot about the iGPU. If you need to spend so much on higher spec DDR5 RAM kits to make the iGPU faster, might as well splurge on a discrete GPU instead which is far more powerful.
@@fleurdewin7958 or maybe people just want a glimpse at what is possible (if anything) with DDR5 vs DDR4 in iGPU's? and for now that means "testing Intels meh iGPU's in a DDR4 vs DDR5 setting" to see if there is any noteworthy difference... I would love to see it tested
I noticed that scores were usually compared to the 4400 MHz DDR4, but the 3600 usually outperformed it quite significantly, so it should've been the one drawing the comparisons in performance.
3600/cl16 twin stick 32gb is BY FAR the best price to performance value purchase for 99% of PC users. It baffles me why DDR5 scalping is even a thing. Unless you can describe in detail why RAM is even necessary for a computer, you should not be spending absurd amounts of money on a DDR5 kit.
"We are in a bad place right now " - Understatement; we are at the worst possible place in computing history. no joke no hyperbole. When a memory module costs more than what a dedicated console is supposed to cost. Prices will never drop again because manufacturers are used to getting high dollar for their products after 2 years of direct scalping . Pc gaming/usage is doomed unless there is a drastic change , the pc almost died in the 80's and it faces a similar midlife crisis currently. if you made 20 $ an hour for two years ? who would ever work for less than that at the end of those two years ? No one. i paid 1000 $ CAD for a computer that now costs around 2000 with the exact same parts . I cant buy what I bought originally 2 years ago . I cant afford to upgrade . i cant find a piece of used hardware that is better than what i bought. There is no clear path forward meaning i need to leave the space. I dont have a choice either.
"Prices will never drop again because manufacturers are used to getting high dollar for their products after 2 years of direct scalping" Except manufacturers arent the ones making top dollar, the scalpers are. Manufacturers are still selling at msrp and making what they usually would, granted now they are used to selling ALL of what they make and not having any go to waste. So they are making more money, but I think you overestimate just how much.
@@companyoflosers i should rephrase , very unlikely to change. zotac was caught direct selling at inflated price to miners by the pallet . I cant prove whether or not manufacturers are scalping people themselves , but they might be scalping each other .All of the sudden the world is 3-5 times more expensive than yesterday? If they need more money to manufacture but prices come down for materials , what incentive do they have to lower prices then? It just cuts into profits.
Prices are due to supply and demand most people cannot afford or do not want to spend this amount of money on memory and if they make enough ddr5 ram they will lower the price because they want to sell them. Prices will drop, they will not stay this high forever.
At this point, I’m afraid that building a PC will be financially out of my reach even when I eventually land a job. Also, isn’t the ideal motherboard for DDR5 RAM right now just 2 slots rather than the usual 4?
Linus and team. I would like to thank you soooooooo much! I have just started on my first endeavour in to building my own machine. Having just watched this video, I feel justified in my choices that I made today when I ordered my parts!!!! 😁 👍👏🥰
More power to you king, hope you enjoy your rig once all the parts arrive! Always remember that upgrading something immediately isn't worth it, and your system's current specs might still be the best option.
I had a ddr5 mobo but couldn’t get any ddr5 ram for 4 weeks. Exchanged the mobo for a ddr4 12th gen over a month ago. Just reused my premium ddr4 ram. Saved $400 and a lot of headache searching for ddr5.
NO,DON'T Build now. 4-th January is announce of TONS of new products from AMD. Ryzen 6000 with 3D V Cache will rip Intel,they wouldn't need DDR5 with such L3 size.
Basically, DDR5 is so quick that the bottleneck is in the software, not the hardware. As most apps are designed for DDR3 with some optimized for taking advantage of DDR4 speeds it is basically useless for most average users, even power users to buy DDR5 until developers catch up.
While this is true, there are definitely still bottlenecks in hardware leaving room for optimization. If you re-watch the video, you can hear about these constraints Linus talks about (like the physical traces).
Update April 2022... The failure rates on DDR5 are really high. I went through 3 kits before I found one that would just boot properly with XMP. A lot of RMAs are happening right now.
The DDR4 2666 scored quite well for being the low-end speed. I've got 32 gigs of G-Skill Ripjaws DDR4 2666 RAM in my current rig, and I have no issues with memory when it comes to playing games that are no more than a year old. I do wish I could get my hands on a GTX 3060 or 3070, because I do unfortunately need a video card with more onboard memory. I currently have a GTX 1660 Super. Common Newegg, or Best Buy. Hey, is Tigerdirect still around, I used to buy parts from them.🤔🤔
oof I feel your pain. Ironically I had been using a now neerly 10 year old computer up to 2020 and when it dide. like sparkenspetten, like the bluescreenofdeath died. and got what was then a 2 year old computer just because I needed SOMETHING for work. it was...well it was kind of like: well fuck now that, that's done! and ALSO oh huh so that's what games look like at 60fps?
@@gorkskoal9315 I built my last rig in 2009, it had a Intel core i5 2400 processor, so it lasted a long time. It started out with a GTX 470, and ended with a GTX 750. I just built my new rig a little over a year ago, it took me about 8 months to buy all the parts, I wish I would've bought a RTX 2080, but I couldn't afford that. I like the 1660, it's a solid vide card, runs smooth, I just wish it had more than 6 gigs of onboard memory, like I said I can play any game less than a year old, but not on optimal settings from GeForce Experience Software. My other rig ran solid for 10 years, but unfortunately halfway through it's life, I bought a Corsair GS 700 Power Supply, I built it with an Antec Earthwatts 650 watt power supply, and since Corsair doesn't use high quality japanese capacitors, it lead to power surges going through the power supply, and shorting out the capacitors in the motherboard around the CPU and RAM. I learned my lesson, always stick with Antec Power Supplies. Diagnostic software man, you probably have some, but if you don't, it's always good to have it, so you can run hardware tests on your rig, and see which parts might be having troubles at any point, that's how found out the capacitors in my old rigs motherboard were shorting out do to overvoltage from that Corsair power supply. Hey take care man. Enjoy your new rig.
I love how we've come to the point where the best option to deal with unexplainable and unjustified prices on components is to not buy them at all. We've reached to a point where the products which were built for Gamers are being given to others and Gamers are forced to use last or even previous product's. It's like we have no respect left at all 😂😂. Imagine getting excited for new stuff only to buy it 3-4 years later.
@@jackansi The funny thing is though, a leasing fee at a reasonable price would still be cheaper than what the fricking hardware costs. Though tbh I wouldn't be as pessimistic about cause in actuality there are probably fewer people buying scalped products than you might think. Not to say they don't sell, just that I doubt that most people will shell out more than double of MSRP for a new card. I'd expect some people to not care and most people instead rely on either cheap pre-built computers with those cards at a more reasonable price or simply not buy at all. We *do* have a chip shortage after all and it is expected to last for at least a few more years. Mainly because crypto, cars and even more powerful phones all came in at the same time as technologies that rely on extremely high-end production methods. I mean it was already talked about a few years back that memory was going to be a problem due to the large amounts that modern phones require. Then there was crypto which resulted in hordes of people buying up cards at all prices - those btw, are the people that *will* pay double MSRP, simply because it's still going to be profitable in the end with a bit of luck for them. Worst case they can still sell the cards at basically no loss. Think of it that way: You have a money printer. It costs you 1000 USD to buy but will print 100USD per month on average. Now after 10 months you decide you want to stop - there are still people however, who will pay, say, 500USD for it. You still made 500USD in profits - oversimplified of course but you get the point. Crypto dudes can sell at half what they bought the cards for and still easily make a profit.
To be Honest --> " Imagine getting excited for new stuff only to buy it 3-4 years later."--> this is my usual way to go. At a Younger Age i felt that URGE to have the Newest Tech available. But today? im rocking a Smartphone for 4-5Years if the battery let me do this. On PCs its not very different. I use my PCs for 3-5Years before i Upgrade and the old ones goes into Family for free -> Parents or Cousins or so. And non the less: the Power uplifts modern Hardware brings, isnt THAT much of a Deal anymore. most uplifts are 5% or Lower, not the 30-40% years ago. So im Pretty Happy when my Stuff just works. And in 2-3Years im gonna Upgrade Again, but never to the Newest with the EarlyAdopter Bugs
There's a simple solution to end scalping: *STOP BUYING FROM THEM* If something is sold out and hard to get, well tough luck, guess you'll have to wait. Oh no, the horror.
Scalpers can't beat me at all. I just bought 64 gig ddr5 from my local custom computer building store. Thankfully they are smart enough to know when someone is coming in to buy and resell. They tell them they can't buy it.
It's awesome to hear you got 64gbs! But how can they tell? I'm also a sneakerhead and most resellers are also sneakerheads. Like how do they know if you are a scalper or want to use the memory?
@@leb4life11 it's fake. Seller doesn't care if someone's gonna resell it, they only care about selling as much of stuff as possible for which a person who's gonna buy a ton to try re-sell is a perfect customer.
I am surprised with how good DDR4 2666MHz is competing, even sometimes winning 1-2 benchmarks. I always thought that it would be like significantly slower than other speeds, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
DDR2 was an exception though btw, DDR1 kits went to like 600Mhz while DDR2 kits started at 800Mhz and the capacity increases ontop were certainly very nice, but yes DDR3 and 4 had rocky starts.
And as a software developer, I can say I am not surprised. Every work load that DDR5 is faster in is more likely to be using smaller values and therefore, able to take advantage of the dual 32-bit buffers per channel whereas the DDR4 is only able to load up one value per operation, regardless of size...
The dual 32 bit channels are a big part of why DDR5 is better at compiling, but you have the reasoning wrong. DDR4 has a burst length of 8, so for every read/write command, a burst of 8 values is sent to each of the 64 DQ’s, for a total of 64 bytes. DDR5 has a burst length of 16, so a burst of 16 values is sent to each of the 32 DQ’s for a total of… 64 bytes. Unsurprisingly, both AMD and Intel use a cache line of 64 bytes, so every time you move any data between different parts of memory/cache, the whole 64 bytes goes along with it, even if you only need one bit. The dual channels are better for compiling because it allows the cpu a lot more flexibility and throughput with reading and writing memory. There’s a lot more to latency than just cas latency, if a row in memory is open we have to wait until we can close it, wait until we can open it, and then wait until we can read/write from it. Doubling the channels gives us half the probability that we will have to wait for a row to be free, plus DDR5 has twice the amount of RAM banks per chip so we half the probability again. This leads to way more random throughput, which is really useful for memory intensive compiling.
@@andrewschmier6749 He didn't specify the burst length nor the type of command; he said one operation = one value when you have one channel, one operation = two values when you have two channels. That's basically what you said except he didn't mention the type of buffering versus cache operations. Which is irrelevant (though interesting, I didn't know). The fact it doesn't translate to exactly 2x throughput is relevant to the topic but not germane to his comment. Soooo. He's not wrong, just vague. Lol
@@andrewschmier6749 I was referring to even a single dimm on a single read. This is the first time I hear of a burst buffer. Yes dual channel is faster in basically every case, but I was referring to the split bus design. I said nothing about clock speed because I at least know that first iteration ram has a total latency (cycles per operation/clock speed) ends up being about the same as the last gen's maybe mid generation ram. (Something like DDR4 3200 CL 16 ~= DDR3 1600 CL 8)
@@gorkskoal9315 Speaking strictly about the split bus design (2 32 bit blocks instead of 1 64 bit block), given the same latency, DDR4 vs DDR5 should be the same speed for 64 bit values where DDR5 should be twice as fast (barring other bottlenecks) for sub-32 bit values (assuming pure pools of those values such as large arrays of integers).
I would really love to see how much you tune the ram in these tests. It's taken me years to realize the complete performance of my individual ram modules because tuning is hard. I will never use XMP again since learning this skill.
What gear is ddr4 4400 running on? Feels like it's gear 2. Had the same results in my last video, basicaly, but I also used ddr5 5600-6400 vs ddr4 4800 in my tests. DDR4 3600-4000 in gear 1 is still extreemly fast, even compared to ddr5-6000+.
4:01 love that the editor (edit: Nicole, Dennis, Marcus, don't know which of you it was, but massive props!) actually hitched and stuttered Linus when he said each word... admittedly it look me a moment to work out if TH-cam was being jank, but still. Very clever! ^_^
g skill flare X is great. its samsung b die and mines been running at 3600 mhz at cl14-14-14-28 for several months with no hickups and a very smooth experience.
Why? Scalpers wouldn't exist if people didn't buy from them. Just because you don't want to pay that much doesn't mean someone thinks the same. The big problem is that with our supply chain issues, the lack of stock of new cards (or ddr5 ram) is basically non-existent. You may not like it, but I can go out and buy whatever 30 series card I want because scalpers make them available.
Then all retail stores like Best Buy, Target, Walmart, Amazon, Newegg, etc would be shut down. Oh I'm sorry, did you think these store make the products themselves? No, they buy them. Oh but did you believe that they sell them at the same price they buy then for? No. They increase the price to make a profit. Scalpers only exist because the supply is low. And the supply is low because crypto miners are buying them all. If scalpers didn't exist you simply wouldn't be able to buy a card at all.
@@Luckingsworth Scalping is not free market lol. There's a difference between making a profit and creating an artificial scarcity through no competition and market manipulation. if it was a company doing what scalpers are doing it would've been fined ages ago.
My big question is, how long will we have to keep 'settling'? We have settled for 1, 2, and even 3 generations of video cards now, because of chip shortages, and scalpers, as well as crypto miners. Now we're having to 'settle' for ddr4, when we should be moving forward. And eventually we're going to have to 'settle' for buying a complete system, instead of building our own, because prices on components will be too damn high. It doesn't help that widows says the system I bought in 2018 is not compatable with windows 11, even though it can play 4k video, and run most games at decent speeds, even with a 1060 card in it.
Being compatible with Windows 11 is about the driver model that the hardware uses, not performance. Also prebuilt prices more or less match diy prices most of the time. Also within the last few gens there has been times where cards were available at msrp, most of the life of RTX 2000 series and RX 5000 series cards you were able to purchase them at or around msrp. Also skipping the first gen of a new memory standard really isn't settling, it'll be a while before you can buy DDR5 memory on a platform that actually makes good use of it.
I'm waiting to upgrade until Ryzen supports DDR5 and probably until the RTX 4080 Ti launch. I'm currently okay with my 64 GB of 3200 MT/s DDR4, even though I would like to upgrade to something faster at some point. But paying for 64 GB of DDR5 right now would be rather stupid...
Hopefully by December DDR5 price getting lower at least about $400 for 128GB and AMD Zen 4 and RTX 4080 come out and then I can build a new workstation computer
I think that 3D rendering tests should include the time it takes for the scene to finish rendering right after clicking the render button, because memory plays a (small) role in how fast it loads. But that's only for Blender, since Cinebench gives a score result, not time. Also DDR5 can simply pack more memory per module, that's a big advantage for workstations that is often overlooked.
I would love to see audio processing tests getting incorporated into your bench marking process, as this is what effects me (and many sound/music oriented creators) the most, other than mby gaming ofc. ;)
As infuriating as it is, I hope there is no intervention. I've been waiting for GPU prices to drop for like a year. Just something you have to put up with when in a capitalistic system. Makes it more worthwhile when the market eventually rebalances and it will. To see the scalpers all trying to sell components far below retail price to salvage what they can. Only thing I'd want is for there to be more sophisticated authentications systems so you cant just rig up a bot to do shopping for you but that's just a pipe dream.
It would be interesting to know which fabrication process is used by Micron and Samsung here. I thought I read that Samsung had successfully implemented 1a EUV process, but Micron is still lagging and still using older multi patterning and SK Hynix received the equipment from ASML, but it has not yet established the new process.
To be honest I wonder how this will hurt or affect the gameing market for PC users and for people like Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft gaming platforms, thinking that they might have a golden ticket for first wave graphics cards ahead of scalpers will these become the master race over PC? Will this eventually slow the rise of graphics for newer games and realism because the majority of people who are not scalpers can't get a hold of the new generation tech? Something to think about I guess! What can be done for PC GamerZ to help us on our side versus scalpers?
It's a no brainer, same stuff that happened here in Brazil and probably most of the underdeveloped urban world (at least one billion of potential consumers) Nobody here buy games anymore, every Brazilian gamer plays LOL or CS:GO, valorant, etc. PS4 are starting to appear by now, and almost everyone uses pirate products. A 1660ti here costs 3 months of salary for most brazillians, pc gaming is dead here for the general public in the last 6/7 years, 15 years ago there were a lot of pc gamers but nowadays it's pretty much a dead market
I'm still running a system that was "average" back in 2014 when I built it. Photoshop, Excel, Word, and web browsing are all plenty fast. I can even play all but the top 20% of demanding games with a fast fps with my ancient GTX 550Ti. Sure, I could probably save some nanoseconds by upgrading, but why? Especially given that my current system is consuming between 50 and 125watts total.
James seems to love playing a scalper in this cinematic universe
Yeahhh... He looks suspiciously natural at that role...
Def w the idea of a LTTCU
@M I K E Y 🔞⤵️ wtf
True
@@x72s You know it's a bot XD
I love that James' "scalper" persona has come back, and I think it should totally be a recurring bit
cringe, but i still smile
I admit, I laughed manically when I saw that.
It returned once, so it already is a recurring bit.
I thought I accidentally opened a Salomondrin video…
Which is the other video where James plays the scalper character? 😂
That small lag when Linus talked about hitches and stutters😂 Gorgeous
Yaa great one I didn't noticed it earlier, for anyone wondering its at 4:01
That was because your RAM is too slow!
Top-tier creative editing.
Upvote on this one
LTT editors go above and beyond. It's these little touches like this that make the videos next level.
I NEED people to appreciate the editor putting hitches and stutters in the video as Linus is saying that could happen with the ram. Absolute genius and watched it probably 5 times just appreciating it @4:00
That was soo cool! I was like "Wait a minute? Did that just?" and needed to rewind, confirm, and jump to the comments section to verify. Nice little easter egg. Well done, editor(s)!
Lol chill
@@CarTorqSA Sometimes I wonder why I bother on making comments on TH-cam. But glad I was able to brighten your day. Unless your comment was to Hayden, in which case I say the same on their behalf. Cheers.
I honestly thought that was my crappy internet acting up (didn't even notice any stutter) until I read the comment.
no
4:06 super nice touch with an actual hitch and stutter. Details count, editors, keep it up!
The answer to ddr5 is literally ddr4. There's no reason at all to let ddr5 bother you this early in the game. The vast majority of users aren't even fully utilizing what ddr4 has to offer. Let the scalpers keep their boxes of ddr5 sticks like idiots. Ddr5 still has places to go and things to do before it gets my money.
Exactly. By the time ddr5 is the only option it'll be cheaper, faster, and most importantly, available.
ya and the good thing is the first gen boards cover ddr5 and ddr4 so far, at least on intel. we don't know what amd will come up with for am5, x670?
Yeah it wont even be worth looking at for 12 to 24 months
@@AsbestosMuffins only some boards are ddr4, and none of them support both ddr4 and 5 on one board - just fyi, since your comment makes it sound like all of the intel boards support both concurrently
The human eye can’t see more than DDR4
Man, this video really demonstrated how useful good timings are for memory. That kit of DDR4 3600 cl16 was getting some notable frame boosts in games.
When I learned the timings of DDR4 was in the double-digits, I doubted if it could top DDR3. I was used to seeing 7-7-7-15 and then DDR4 comes out with double that. Now DDR5 is double even THAT, so I don't see a point in getting 5 for at least 4 years.
@@StapleCactus well ddr5 cl32-7200 is the same speed as cl16-ddr4 3600 (when we talk nano seconds, not data transfer) so we will see overall faster ddr5 within the next 12 months I would guess.
@@JasperSchwinghammer what would the DDR5 equivalent of ddr4 4000 CL16 be? Assuming all secondary timings are relatively the same in terms of ns
@@Ayane13b based off his math, i’d guess ddr5 would be cl32 8000 ram
@@JasperSchwinghammer it took 14 months from launch for good ddr4 kits to hit the market..prices dropped in half around the same time..with the supply issues i could see it taking 18-24 months from launch for good ddr5 kits to come out and for prices to drop
The scalper has to be one of the scariest villains ever created. He should be in the next bond film.
your james bond is time, companies dont hate money eventually they will meet demand
Probably would be a better Villain than remi mallak
Oil/water scalping is a real thing, would make a decent bond villain combining scalping with other market/resource manipulation activities.
"Do you expect me to talk?"
"No Mr Bond, I expect you to pay double MSRP"
And in avengers
I'd like to see LTT put DDR5's increased reliability to the test by running DDR4 vs. DDR5 in an environment where memory errors are likely to occur. Ideally this would involve sticking a chunk of plutonium next to the RAM to bombard the chips with ionizing radiation, but in a pinch, I suppose severe overclocking would produce acceptable test results too.
in before everyone in lmg dies from radiation poisoning
I'm not going to play my PC near significant radiation exposure...
@@sparhawk1228 Same, high rad levels are really just the next rgb smh
@@Carnage8 I think you're the first person I've ever seen spell out inb4
@@sparhawk1228 astronauts gotta game too my man
James "The Scalper" Streib recurring character is both hilarious and a sad reflection of the equipment market at the moment
4:02 that's a good editor right there.
He boosted the experience with little things
I actually went back myself just to make sure I wasn't seeing things.
They've been doing this kind of integration for years now.
I just came to comment this too, awesome attention to details there
I love the details, good work editor!
@@UltimateByte neato
It would be interesting to see how DDR5 fares compared to DDR4 when it comes to integrated graphics.
David does tech stuff did a video on it. Not really any difference. Still got beat by ryzen 5300g
@@andresacosta5318 Wait, 5300G supports DDR5?
More interesting when AMD has an APU with DDR5. Intel iGPU is not strong enough for it to really make a difference.
@@rohanshah7960 No,wait for January* 4 announces from AMD.
It doesnt fare well at all and why would it be? why do people think that current gen iGPU are bandwidth limited?
4:00 Talks about stutters, puts a stutter in the video XD
Until DDR5 timings drop significantly, I’m definitely sticking with DDR4.
DDR3 squad in position
@@filda2005 ddr2 master race
@@fenixspider5776 I use a DDR2 laptop from 2007 and it's absolutely fine. That's one advantage of not being a gamer.
@@brandonhoover2120 it should be.
What's worse than the scalping is when the "retail" price on these stores suddenly shoots up to match the scalper prices. Same thing happened with the 30 series graphics cards
Honestly this is one product I don't mind scalpers buying the full stock of and I'm even thankful for them doing so.
They are keeping everyone who have to spend their money kind of responsible from buying bad performance/$ kits and they also pay the early adopter tax for us.
So they are basically financing the development of proper ddr5 kits.
For once they are kind of useful. 😄
Lmao
Funny and true!
Thank God DDR4 options are available
and when they get burned from this hopefully the wont try again 🤞🤞
@@T3KFTW we won’t get burned lol
That intro was so edgy, I love it James.
@@tennojiberri beat me to it
Nerd 🤓
@@marcobarrientos4953 And?
@@jpinguee7564 Beta 👴🏾
@@marcobarrientos4953 I really don't get you man.
I'd love to see a Techquickie video explaining all the terminology used in rating memory, like CL and MHz.
Yes please
Yeah, it'd be helpful.
I think you can watch a video on "Does RAM speed matter?" made on LTT which kind of explains the meaning and process of these words and how a ram works
th-cam.com/video/h-TWQ0rS-SI/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/Yed-a9vqTYc/w-d-xo.html
Mega Hurts CAS Lag
I don’t think these scalpers are doing this because it makes any sense. I think people are looking at the GPU mess, and trying to cash in on scalping whatever new tech comes out even if they know nothing about it. There’s a lot of people who have taken scalping to the next level and made it their entire source of income after getting laid off due to Covid, and the only way to fight it is to just not buy from them. The Ebay market for this stuff needs to crash and burn, but people see the high price tags and snatch it up thinking they’re gonna be able to resell it themselves, or thinking that it must surely be valuable before even learning about the product at all. It’s not easy when nobody’s sure what the hell is going to happen to their money in the next two years.
Hopefully they lose a lot of money and piss off then.
Covid is big reason this all started when covid happened.It has slowed down Manufacturing too so covid is biggest reason for all this mess.Crypto mining always be there but covid is big reason for this shortage
@@johnnyboogalo4897 For real. Miners by themselves weren't a monumental issue. Sure we saw upped prices, but it wasn't multiple times MSRP for new products much less used ones.
@@apocalypseap we can return our product if nobody buys it lol
Um no. People are buying ddr5 because they want it. Scalpers know this. Nobody is buying RAM secondhand to flip it.
I'm still using DDR3 and I am happy, play all latest games, do video editing, no problem, I'm not in a rush to buy DDR5 anytime soon - the entire PC market is overshadowed with scalpers and scammers - it's a shame that hardware manufacturers let this happen - Once upon a time you could easily order parts online, not anymore, everything is not available, it's pathetic........
We dont really need it...... I mean, just have a decent CPU and GPU and 16 GB of RAM (any gen) and you are fine. Even the latest, most demanding games require only 16 GB of ram for highest settings......... I know some of them who bought 32 - 64 GB of DDR2 and DDR3 ram back in the days just for gaming purposes. I told them, but they didnt listen, now we see that it was just waste of money, even first 8 core cpus from AMD were bad for gaming, even today not all games can use properly 6 - 8 core CPUs ( plenty of them). Even SSDs are not used to the fullest...... in every game and scenarios because there are still many random reads involved. Direct Storage is not here anytime soon and what about wide adoption etc.......
This just proves that scalper situation is even worse then we thought, ddr5 proving here that those scalpers *aren't even tech savvy* .
And someone who can't even tell me what RAM stands for, selling me it at double the price sounds horrifying.
That's why he suggested scalping game consoles. Huge pre-ordered supply, solid supply chains, many legitimate sellers. The supply will drown unprepared scalpers. It's not like when I was in high school when the PS3 was going for $8,000 on ebay.
RAM. Ram stands for fun when you RAM your GTA 5 car into someone. RAM
@@gorkskoal9315 dam that's so funny you got the whole squad laughing 😒
Bro, scalpers are primarily made up of gamers. We buy and sell pc components all the time. Even if we didn’t know a ton about it, that doesn’t make it not profitable
@@jdamqueen "we?"
You see the thing im fearing with the introduction of DDR5 is that magically DDR4 is going to become nonexistent just like what happened with DDR3. there was a period of time where you just couldn't buy 3rd party DDR3 Memory or motherboards compatible for DDR3 and all you were left with is MBs for DDR4 and DDR4 costing upwards of 600 to 400 dollars.
but used ddr3 sticks are dirt cheap. So I think used ddr4 sticks would also become super cheap. Which is great because ddr4 is rly good for a long time still
Highly unlikely to happen yet. 2nd-hand market is extremely flooded with DDR4, let alone the backdoor sellers of extra supplies pre-pandemic nor not.
What? i still use DDR3 and you can find then even on Amazon, Brand New.
@@MisterniKOK But that's now. A few years ago DDR3 was getting rare, and the used market was full of fakes.
@@merfax0000 That's BS though. A few years ago is when I was messing around with Chinese X79 motherboards regularly and getting DDR3 for those systems was always cheap and easy.
Linus and his team always finds the most interesting things to talk about
I mean yeah. They brainstorm every single content they could think of
Ok bot
Im your fan
Lol what?
"I am the Great Cornholio! I come from Lake Titicaca! M-heh heh, yeah, Titicaca! Titty-kaka!"
Something to consider regarding this subject, ASUS demonstrated a DDR5 to DDR4 converter so you can plug DDR4 memory into DDR5 slots, and it has all the power circuitry etc needed to do it on its board. It is not currently a product but if it does make it to market, it might be a RAM scalper killer and might also give life to DDR4 kits people have before they move to a new DDR5 kit.
Thats literally what i am going to do with my ddr3 sticks when i get myself a ddr4 mobo
@@joaopaulogalloclaudino9671 is it really worth it to still hang onto ddr3?
4:00 Nice effects the video artists are putting to showcase stutters when Linus talks about it. Nice touch indeed :) You are using the visual medium well.
The best way to solve scalping is to leave them with their 20 grand of stock 🤷🏼♂️
I gotta admit, I had planned to build a Flight Sim rig when DD5 launched to replace my circa-2013 Haswell with a GTX1070. When everything went out of stock, and seeing the massive Black Friday savings on DDR4, I opted for a DDR4 build and I'm happy. This video confirmed my suspicions. So far my i9 and 3080 (thank you EVGA) are working phenomenal with 32GB DDR4.
Of course the week after I built it, I won my first Newegg Shuffle for DDR5 & Mobo combo....rip
Honestly.... just resell the MOBO and DDR5 at MSRP to an actual gamer, one who's on a budget. Thnk about it, you'd have to buy a new CPU and rebuild your PC almost entirely (hours of labor which, based on your salary, might not even equal the value of the parts you got off Newegg).
Wait for 13th Gen Intel or the next Ryzen series before buying a DDR5 kit, otherwise you're just throwing hours of your free time and potentially thousands of dollars down the toilet.
@@alexanderkhan9097 good point. Raptor Lake would most certainly fit my screen name better
Yeah at this point, might as well wait, gonna run my ddr4 setup until its actually necessary to upgrade lol, I ran ddr3 since launch till 2 years ago and then went into DDR4, I think a current DDR4 system should last the average gamer at least another 5+ years before its actually a problem.
Actually bought a 8gb stick of ddr3 for my laptop the other week lol
Still running DDR3 with a 2nd gen i5 here
@@mxmobile5619 based
i'm still on 16gb DDR3 i7 4770k & 1060 6gb , runs most new games at decent FPS , just bought a new Gaming laptop (i5 11'th gen,16gb ddr4, 3060 6 gb maxq) and it's only about 20% faster than the PC so i know that if i upgrade the PC i'd probably get 50% but at a much higher cost than the laptop, will prolly just switch to laptop for more demanding games for a few years and then upgrade PC when both are outdated
Yes. As a good indicator, I'd advice to invest in new ddr5 kits when you see prices for ddr4 going up (due to lack of demand and thus lowered production). It's typically a decent tell that the market has decisively shifted to the new platform, and software/game developers are now taking full advantage of the latest gen hardware. As an example, early gen ddr4 is often pricier than current high gen ddr4.
Instead of building DRAM from silicon transistors and a metal capacitor built above it, use a second transistor as the capacitor and build them both above the silicon from oxide semiconductors. Two research groups showed that these transistors could keep their data way longer than ordinary DRAM, and they could be stacked in layers above the silicon, giving a much shorter path between the processor an its precious data.
Do you have a link to that paper?
@@andrewlalis tfw this site even censors people for telling you to google oxide semiconductors because they are too scummy to allow links
LMG - great work as always! Keep it up!
Video suggestions: with high refresh rate screens there is now an issue with the "optimal screen performance". Contents look best when they are more colour accurate, with higher levels of brightness, performing at a constant fps well above the 60fps mark. Now with the whole rainbow variety of display panels in laptops which is the best, the second best, the third? If you guys can do an investigative video on that perhaps publish an annual ranking of screens at the end of the year for the laptops released that year... Could make for very relevant content. Especially considering that it is impossible to make out which screens are the best in any video reviews. I have been having the hardest time filtering out whether to get a legion, an omen or an rog where my decision is now hinged upon the quality of screen performance (they all have parallel specs). I would trade off some performance potential on spec sheet for the most optimum viewing experience for media, games, word, excel and browsing... Thanks :)
Standard config: rtx 3060 with i7 or ryzen 9 and a second config one notch lower on the graphics card. Target FHD and QHD dismissing 4k on laptop up untill that time that we can get 3090 performance out of an air cooled laptop GPU (could happen) .
Second suggestion: Windows laptops now moving further away from repairability and upgradability for ex. alienware has gone through the length of installing the mobo in reverse soldered ram chip where you can't see it... Other manufacturers following the trend of appleization. ROG did it, HP omen has a single nvme slot... It's like they don't want these units to last long and they are articulating it in the design language... Whatever happened to right to repair? And now upgrade? You guys can make a top five list of most easily upgradable laptops at the end of the year because that is also something the users need (right now, IMO, legion is no.1 on that but let's hope it doesn't change for them too moving forward.) Thanks again!
I personally have a Legion 5, and I not only attest to the quality of the screen, but even the wifi card is upgradable lol. It has 2 M.2 slots, both accessible, both sticks of ram are removable, and there’s even room to go from a 60 Watt hour battery that mine came with to an 80 watt hour battery. The only things that you can’t swap out, obviously, are the CPU and GPU. Hope this helps!
@@ian.williamson thanks Ian I was already leaning towards legion(s) especially after daily driving thinkpads for office work - the quality, durability and upgrading is great. For gaming now I will go gor legion. I had an ROG Strix Scar 2 with an RTX 2070 and 144hz refresh. It had the issue of the stationary arm shadow from after having played fps' for a couple of hours getting temporarily burned in to the screen. I flipped it for 0 profit 0 loss. Downgraded to a used older gen GTX machine. Now for future will get the legion. Thanks again brother!
I love the fact, that Intel did add the old DDR4 support in their 12th Gen CPUs' Memory controllers.
well to be fair, they knew sure as hell that they wouldn't be able to sell any of their 12th gen chips if buyers were hard bottlenecked by ddr5 scalper prices lol. Its bad enough as it is to invest in a new mobo platform, let alone a set of ddr5 that atm costs the same as a high tier gpu at msrp
@@Real_MisterSir agreed, they knew this case. Now it's AMD's turn XD
The 9900k still supports ddr3...
@@joelimmanueloelsner9211 technically, yes, but the challenge is: to find certified motherboards to work with DDR3 slots on the 9th Gen platform or below, which is going to be tricky, since it's not officially supported
@@manofculture8097 Oh it’s out there. Seen a couple of them made by Biostar.
Lol, nice job with the “hitches” and “stutters” Nicole, Dennis, and Marcus!
Damn James legit looks like a super villain 🦹♀️
I'm pretty happy to see that my DDR4-3600 often leads the charts 😄
Especially when it's overclocked slightly @3800, with unchanged low latency CL16 👌
Nice. I'm pretty happy with my DDR4-3600 CL18 running solid for over a year at CL16...
I'm currently at stock speed with my 32gb of DDR4-3600 as my pc seems to run at really smooth speeds. Should I try to overclock it anyways? and will it affect lifespan of the ram sticks?
@@9livespending You would need to tell anyone more about your system before they could offer advice. Motherboard and CPU details for a start. Then perhaps details of the make and model of the RAM. Should you try? I would say not, if you are even needing to ask. Will it affect lifespan - not if you don't screw it up (use sensible voltages and keep an eye on the temperatures). You are more likely to mess up a perfectly good Windows installation with file corruptions if you don't test properly, than to cause physical damage to the RAM. If I overclock RAM I test the hell out of it with Memtest86 before I even try to boot back into Windows. And make sure you've got good backups, just in case it all goes wrong.
@@GodmanchesterGoblin Oh you're right, I apologize. My specs are:
B-550f Motherboard (Asus ROG),
4x TridentZ(8gb) 3600hz RAM,
750w PSU
Windows 10 Pro
CPU liquid cooler & fan cooling combo
@@9livespending OK - In summary I would probably not change it unless you feel confident and can recover easily in the event of trashing the operating system. Reasons: You've already got four sticks and that will always be harder to overclock than if you have just two. Also (and I am guessing), if you have Ryzen 3xxx or 5xxx for example then 3600MHz RAM is already a very good match to the Infinity Fabric in the CPU which is generally optimal at 1800MHz. If you have CL16 RAM, you could try squeezing the timings down, but that will depend on how much slack there is in the timings, and it could take a bit of effort. CL14 is a big step from CL16 as a percentage You might gain just a very few percent in performance on mixed workloads. I also have four sticks G.Skill Trident Z Neo at 3600 but CL18 (64GB total). I got my timings from CL18-22-22 to CL16-21-21 keeping speed at 3600 but I had to take the RAM to 1.425 volts. I pulled in a few other timings as well. However, as mentioned before, do your testing with Memtest86 or similar (from a USB stick) so that you minimise the risks to your installation. If you can run for several passes with zero errors then you can try Windows again. I used y-cruncher (calculating Pi to a few billion places) as a benchmark - the change in RAM timings gave me around a 5% boost. Good luck!
Oh, and last point, if you ever want to update the BIOS, I suggest you do that with default RAM timings (it's always safer) and be prepared to retune the RAM in the event that the updated timings don't work after an update. Been there, done that, etc.
You guys have done a great job educating your audience about how ram works over the years, great video
There really needs to be something done about scalpers.
This is getting silly.
And as you can see by the comment above me, bots in general.
There already is. It's called have a brain and don't anything. Scalpers only exist because people will buy it. If there was no demand there would be no supply
Just don't buy from them.
i just wish the manufacturers would get involved , like release a first batch of a new product over the usual price and threading the "out of stock margin" till the scalpers had enough to buy then freaking flood the market dropping the price to they're usual target
@@TheOfficialJayP You know... Some people can't wait 5 years to buy PC parts....
Bless the early adopters who are paying more adopter tax than usual. We salute you! You are making DDR5 better for when most of us eventually buy in... next year or later.
@@dodomic6259 I've got the same kit RGB, but at CL36 coming. I paid $100 over MSRP (So really at this point thats a finders fee) can't wait.
@@tvw4951 Imagine paying a top tier gpu msrp for a ram kit tho. yikes
I mean the scalpers already paid the adopter tax, so as long as we don't buy from them..
@@gonun69 scalpers haven't sold below what they paid yet... so it is a passthrough cost to the final early adopter... not the scalper.
Well, let's be fair, I'm not gonna buy some RAM that's 1 year or more shaved off its warranty after (hopefully) a scalper had it stuck on their shelf when the prices eventually do come down. Especially so when I can get it from a store, have full warranty and guarantee that it has never been used before.
Either way, thanks to everyone who is contributing to paying the early adopter tax and making DDR5 better for when anyone sensible does buy it but count me out of paying early adopter tax. I'll stick with DDR4 for now, it does what I need.
I just started watching LTT seriously and I can't believe they releasing a such informative video everyday. So awesome!
Shut up
Linus: People like having the latest and greatest thing.
Me: Buying second-hand Android and flash different ROMs.
Been dealing with "hitches" and "stutters" for the past 2 months. You got me good with that subtle effect at 4:00.
Talking about RAM, it has almost always been like quantity goes over "quality", unlike so many other things in life.
When will I ever be able to just buy a pc.. at normal price
buy a laptop...they are selling pretty good at msrp
@@ghajik.not really you can get a pc for around as much on terms of specs (excluding peripherals but you'll want to use external monitor with a laptop anyway) and someplaces 3060 ti drop to reasonable pricing and laptops have no upgradability and are the equivalent of a high power heater
@@David-tz1oi but most people don't upgrade as often, and the cpu socket is gonna go outdated and you might have to change your motherboard and cpu and so on...the case might be the only remnants of what it originally was and everything else changes in around 5 yrs. While laptops, you can run them for around 5 yrs with the additional benefit of getting extra real estate (if you have an additional monitor) and buy a new laptop if necessary...It may cost a bit more but the price to time isn't much of a difference than how much you'd save with subsequent upgrades to your PC. ALSO you get the added bonus of gaming on travel.
Every video is becoming closer and closer to a theatre experience
You should look at some Chris Ramsay introductions. Definitely, the most cinematic of anyone.
This is one of the big reasons I love LTT. You all are always there to help enthusiasts make good decisions and I salute you for it.
I love it when you linus mentions, stutters and hitches, we actually slip a frame or two 4:00
Pay attention to how the 4400mhz ddr4 is equal to or worse than the 3600mhz in gaming
bigger number does not always mean better
It's not clear what gear they are running at. Max for gear 1 should be 4000mhz so it could be gear 1 vs 2 than just speed.
Well they're missing one of the most important things, so yeah. Latency. If they all had the same latency it would be a bigger difference.
@@ILoveTinfoilHats They can't have the same latency as they have different speeds though. The speed affects the latency! Slower cards have lower latencies than fast cards!
@@Luxalpa not necessarily. 3200 cl16 and 3600 cl18 have the exact same latency
@@ILoveTinfoilHats and 3200 cl14 is much faster than either of those
As a PC Builder currently in the middle of building a new rig, clearly DDR4 is the way to go. Sure, somewhere a few years down the line DDR5 will probably be the way to go, but for now it's not worth it.
I unfortunately already bought a motherboard that is ddr5 only and assembled the PC complete less the ram thinking my order wouldnt take long and not being aware of the current shortage, now I'm just stuck waiting for some ram.
Same, I just finished my build as DDR 5 was released/launched but for my needs. A 32gb kit of DDR 4 was more than enough. I'm encountering no issues at all. It's only a 2666mhz kit too. Boosted of course! Ha ha ha. Does me fine.
*HUG!!!* YES YES YES YES!!! Here is my take for all these people with FOMO. You're looking at prettygirls in red dresses, but forgot the average person isn't an agent, and average person will stick with you for life!
I was wishing for someone on YT to benchmark different gen RAMs at comparable speed, everyone did their test with like DDR5 4800-5200, and DDR4 3200-3600, so the speed was something that could affect the performance, and a high speed DDR4 is cheaper than a new low speed DDR5, so thats something to have in mind. Thanks Linus
What? Why? The whole point of DDR5 is higher speed.
Huh... I don't see the point but I mean with tighter timings on ddr4 I don't see ddr5 have a lot if any edge to slice with soo ddr4 would win Aaaand... Yeah that is the end of it :/
Okay,just for idea of measuring some sort performance difference of architectures - 2x32 DDR5 channels vs 1x64 DDR4. Then lets not only decrease DDR5 frequency,but also increase DDR4 timings so they would match the spec.
@@Steellmor
Why do a dual channel vs single channel if we are trying to measure the architecture difference?
@@shadowboyii Single DDR5 have 2x32 bit data channels(+2x8bit ECC), and DDR4 has 1x64 bit data channel(+1x8bit ECC).
The fact that the editor added a stutter in the video when Linus mentioned "stutter" at around 4:04 is a stroke of genius
What we REALLY need is anti-scalping laws put into place to prevent this crap. And companies that care enough to put effective prevention measures in place.
Laws would make this problem way worse. The only possible solutions are to raise the MSRP to reflect market value, or to build more factories to increase supply. Laws would do neither.
@@rustler08 I would like to see some sort of legal solution. We have car dealerships marking up the price $10K because they can, not because that’s the cars value. It’s exploitation and damn near blackmail as far as I’m concerned. Nobody’s forcing you, but if you need something, what alternative is there? I don’t know what would actually work, but we need to Start somewhere, and you’re probably right about where we should start because I don’t see politicians lifting a finger any time soon.
@@sagebias2251 if MSRP goes up, scalpers will just charge more, that’s probably not a good idea. I’m sure there’s a limit, but it would eventually get to a point where nobody wants to buy anything nor could they afford to, and the market collapses.
I think all this scalpers crap is overrated. If people want to buy overpriced shit, let them. That's just free market looking for equilibrium.
too bad
Man I love the little detail that you made Linus actually "hitch" and "stutter" when he said that the 10% difference in F1 2021 could lead to just that!
Great job! Love it!
That hurt me, I thought my shit was broke again 😜
I had to rewind just to make sure my eyes weren't tricking me. Cool move, editing dept.
You should compare those RAM modules in an iGPU build, since those tend to benefit a lot from RAM speed.
iGPU build lmao
no one buys into 12th gen with the intention of using the iGPU. early adopters are nerds with big pockets. this only makes a difference for laptop where the processors are completely different.
@@darklordzqwerty but AMD will be using DDR5 soon and they have MANY APU's (also known as iGPU's) so that could be VERY interesting ya know... especially now when Intel XE is there too and dGPU's are like unobtainium
Now the only Alder Lake CPU officially in the market is the "K" SKU . People who buy unlocked "K" SKU CPU are enthusiasts that will have discrete GPU, who will not give a hoot about the iGPU. If you need to spend so much on higher spec DDR5 RAM kits to make the iGPU faster, might as well splurge on a discrete GPU instead which is far more powerful.
@@fleurdewin7958 or maybe people just want a glimpse at what is possible (if anything) with DDR5 vs DDR4 in iGPU's? and for now that means "testing Intels meh iGPU's in a DDR4 vs DDR5 setting" to see if there is any noteworthy difference... I would love to see it tested
I noticed that scores were usually compared to the 4400 MHz DDR4, but the 3600 usually outperformed it quite significantly, so it should've been the one drawing the comparisons in performance.
3600/cl16 twin stick 32gb is BY FAR the best price to performance value purchase for 99% of PC users. It baffles me why DDR5 scalping is even a thing. Unless you can describe in detail why RAM is even necessary for a computer, you should not be spending absurd amounts of money on a DDR5 kit.
"We are in a bad place right now " - Understatement; we are at the worst possible place in computing history. no joke no hyperbole. When a memory module costs more than what a dedicated console is supposed to cost. Prices will never drop again because manufacturers are used to getting high dollar for their products after 2 years of direct scalping . Pc gaming/usage is doomed unless there is a drastic change , the pc almost died in the 80's and it faces a similar midlife crisis currently. if you made 20 $ an hour for two years ? who would ever work for less than that at the end of those two years ? No one. i paid 1000 $ CAD for a computer that now costs around 2000 with the exact same parts . I cant buy what I bought originally 2 years ago . I cant afford to upgrade . i cant find a piece of used hardware that is better than what i bought. There is no clear path forward meaning i need to leave the space. I dont have a choice either.
"Prices will never drop again because manufacturers are used to getting high dollar for their products after 2 years of direct scalping"
Except manufacturers arent the ones making top dollar, the scalpers are. Manufacturers are still selling at msrp and making what they usually would, granted now they are used to selling ALL of what they make and not having any go to waste. So they are making more money, but I think you overestimate just how much.
@@companyoflosers i should rephrase , very unlikely to change. zotac was caught direct selling at inflated price to miners by the pallet . I cant prove whether or not manufacturers are scalping people themselves , but they might be scalping each other .All of the sudden the world is 3-5 times more expensive than yesterday? If they need more money to manufacture but prices come down for materials , what incentive do they have to lower prices then? It just cuts into profits.
Prices are due to supply and demand most people cannot afford or do not want to spend this amount of money on memory and if they make enough ddr5 ram they will lower the price because they want to sell them. Prices will drop, they will not stay this high forever.
Glad I built my computer in 2016 when DDR3 was well established & am able to unlock it's full potential! Amazing, truly amazing!
At this point, I’m afraid that building a PC will be financially out of my reach even when I eventually land a job. Also, isn’t the ideal motherboard for DDR5 RAM right now just 2 slots rather than the usual 4?
Yeah thats what Buildzoid said. I think he said when you have 4 slots and 2 are unpopulated is the worst config
@Miley Crush 💋👇 k
get ddr4...
2 is all you need
@@dano1307 no, 4 slots populated are the worse config
Linus and team. I would like to thank you soooooooo much! I have just started on my first endeavour in to building my own machine.
Having just watched this video, I feel justified in my choices that I made today when I ordered my parts!!!! 😁 👍👏🥰
More power to you king, hope you enjoy your rig once all the parts arrive! Always remember that upgrading something immediately isn't worth it, and your system's current specs might still be the best option.
@@chewthysteak that is sound advice. Thanks.
I had a ddr5 mobo but couldn’t get any ddr5 ram for 4 weeks. Exchanged the mobo for a ddr4 12th gen over a month ago. Just reused my premium ddr4 ram. Saved $400 and a lot of headache searching for ddr5.
NO,DON'T Build now. 4-th January is announce of TONS of new products from AMD. Ryzen 6000 with 3D V Cache will rip Intel,they wouldn't need DDR5 with such L3 size.
@@GizmoMaltese ffs people. Throwing money away on product that wont work,wasting time with it,and then saying "Saved $400 and a lot of headache".
Basically, DDR5 is so quick that the bottleneck is in the software, not the hardware. As most apps are designed for DDR3 with some optimized for taking advantage of DDR4 speeds it is basically useless for most average users, even power users to buy DDR5 until developers catch up.
No, DDR5 is only faster in bandwidth, but slower in latency.
While this is true, there are definitely still bottlenecks in hardware leaving room for optimization. If you re-watch the video, you can hear about these constraints Linus talks about (like the physical traces).
Update April 2022... The failure rates on DDR5 are really high. I went through 3 kits before I found one that would just boot properly with XMP. A lot of RMAs are happening right now.
The DDR4 2666 scored quite well for being the low-end speed. I've got 32 gigs of G-Skill Ripjaws DDR4 2666 RAM in my current rig, and I have no issues with memory when it comes to playing games that are no more than a year old. I do wish I could get my hands on a GTX 3060 or 3070, because I do unfortunately need a video card with more onboard memory. I currently have a GTX 1660 Super. Common Newegg, or Best Buy. Hey, is Tigerdirect still around, I used to buy parts from them.🤔🤔
oof I feel your pain. Ironically I had been using a now neerly 10 year old computer up to 2020 and when it dide. like sparkenspetten, like the bluescreenofdeath died. and got what was then a 2 year old computer just because I needed SOMETHING for work. it was...well it was kind of like: well fuck now that, that's done! and ALSO oh huh so that's what games look like at 60fps?
@@gorkskoal9315 I built my last rig in 2009, it had a Intel core i5 2400 processor, so it lasted a long time. It started out with a GTX 470, and ended with a GTX 750. I just built my new rig a little over a year ago, it took me about 8 months to buy all the parts, I wish I would've bought a RTX 2080, but I couldn't afford that. I like the 1660, it's a solid vide card, runs smooth, I just wish it had more than 6 gigs of onboard memory, like I said I can play any game less than a year old, but not on optimal settings from GeForce Experience Software. My other rig ran solid for 10 years, but unfortunately halfway through it's life, I bought a Corsair GS 700 Power Supply, I built it with an Antec Earthwatts 650 watt power supply, and since Corsair doesn't use high quality japanese capacitors, it lead to power surges going through the power supply, and shorting out the capacitors in the motherboard around the CPU and RAM. I learned my lesson, always stick with Antec Power Supplies. Diagnostic software man, you probably have some, but if you don't, it's always good to have it, so you can run hardware tests on your rig, and see which parts might be having troubles at any point, that's how found out the capacitors in my old rigs motherboard were shorting out do to overvoltage from that Corsair power supply. Hey take care man. Enjoy your new rig.
Finally i can get my hands on DDR2 ram!
I love how we've come to the point where the best option to deal with unexplainable and unjustified prices on components is to not buy them at all. We've reached to a point where the products which were built for Gamers are being given to others and Gamers are forced to use last or even previous product's. It's like we have no respect left at all 😂😂. Imagine getting excited for new stuff only to buy it 3-4 years later.
Now it may double if not triple that date because of the pandemic and the shortages.
@@jackansi The funny thing is though, a leasing fee at a reasonable price would still be cheaper than what the fricking hardware costs. Though tbh I wouldn't be as pessimistic about cause in actuality there are probably fewer people buying scalped products than you might think. Not to say they don't sell, just that I doubt that most people will shell out more than double of MSRP for a new card. I'd expect some people to not care and most people instead rely on either cheap pre-built computers with those cards at a more reasonable price or simply not buy at all.
We *do* have a chip shortage after all and it is expected to last for at least a few more years. Mainly because crypto, cars and even more powerful phones all came in at the same time as technologies that rely on extremely high-end production methods. I mean it was already talked about a few years back that memory was going to be a problem due to the large amounts that modern phones require.
Then there was crypto which resulted in hordes of people buying up cards at all prices - those btw, are the people that *will* pay double MSRP, simply because it's still going to be profitable in the end with a bit of luck for them. Worst case they can still sell the cards at basically no loss.
Think of it that way: You have a money printer. It costs you 1000 USD to buy but will print 100USD per month on average. Now after 10 months you decide you want to stop - there are still people however, who will pay, say, 500USD for it. You still made 500USD in profits - oversimplified of course but you get the point.
Crypto dudes can sell at half what they bought the cards for and still easily make a profit.
I already gave up on upgrading my pc. sold it for parts and now using cheap laptop. wont play any games until scalper crap gets sorted out.
To be Honest --> " Imagine getting excited for new stuff only to buy it 3-4 years later."--> this is my usual way to go. At a Younger Age i felt that URGE to have the Newest Tech available. But today? im rocking a Smartphone for 4-5Years if the battery let me do this.
On PCs its not very different. I use my PCs for 3-5Years before i Upgrade and the old ones goes into Family for free -> Parents or Cousins or so.
And non the less: the Power uplifts modern Hardware brings, isnt THAT much of a Deal anymore. most uplifts are 5% or Lower, not the 30-40% years ago. So im Pretty Happy when my Stuff just works. And in 2-3Years im gonna Upgrade Again, but never to the Newest with the EarlyAdopter Bugs
@@skyhigh24 Old hardware rules, PowerMac G5 and QUAD hyperthreaded Pentium 4 based server
Retailers could help solve the issue by not selling out to bots and stuff
Yeah but almost all just want that muneh
@@RazeR8023 I doubt they would have an issue with selling new stuff
Great editing with "Hitches or Stutters" at 4:00
I imagine a time, where better DDR5, PCIe 5.0 SSD, RTX 4000 Series, 12V only PSUs and Ryzen 7000 series release in the same year.
There's a simple solution to end scalping: *STOP BUYING FROM THEM*
If something is sold out and hard to get, well tough luck, guess you'll have to wait. Oh no, the horror.
I’m pretty sure the people buying from scalpers are not watching this video
@@ADosSantos92 that's awfully true
lol shshshshshshshsh. but what's karren going to to tell timmy?
If people who have money want something, they'll buy it from wherever it comes from.
Scalpers can't beat me at all. I just bought 64 gig ddr5 from my local custom computer building store. Thankfully they are smart enough to know when someone is coming in to buy and resell. They tell them they can't buy it.
It's awesome to hear you got 64gbs! But how can they tell? I'm also a sneakerhead and most resellers are also sneakerheads. Like how do they know if you are a scalper or want to use the memory?
@@leb4life11 it's fake. Seller doesn't care if someone's gonna resell it, they only care about selling as much of stuff as possible for which a person who's gonna buy a ton to try re-sell is a perfect customer.
@@leb4life11 people who come by are known scalpers and they been to that store many times buying literally everything so its pretty obvious.
I am surprised with how good DDR4 2666MHz is competing, even sometimes winning 1-2 benchmarks. I always thought that it would be like significantly slower than other speeds, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
Maybe on AMD it would, but intel doesn't seem to care as much about ram speed
Well I'm on AMD, but pretty sure that the difference is still neglectable for a more "budged-midrange" build.
@@TheDarkElk Except for certain hardware. And or temperature of the said device it runs at.
Oh look, it's Mia
It indeed is, nice that you recognized the character
DDR2 was an exception though btw, DDR1 kits went to like 600Mhz while DDR2 kits started at 800Mhz and the capacity increases ontop were certainly very nice, but yes DDR3 and 4 had rocky starts.
Huh I didn't know that! please tell me more
4:03 - you got me, editor, well done.
I find it hilarious that my X99 based i7-5960x running O/C at 4.6GHz is easily keeping up with newer systems and it's 7 years old.
And as a software developer, I can say I am not surprised. Every work load that DDR5 is faster in is more likely to be using smaller values and therefore, able to take advantage of the dual 32-bit buffers per channel whereas the DDR4 is only able to load up one value per operation, regardless of size...
The dual 32 bit channels are a big part of why DDR5 is better at compiling, but you have the reasoning wrong. DDR4 has a burst length of 8, so for every read/write command, a burst of 8 values is sent to each of the 64 DQ’s, for a total of 64 bytes. DDR5 has a burst length of 16, so a burst of 16 values is sent to each of the 32 DQ’s for a total of… 64 bytes. Unsurprisingly, both AMD and Intel use a cache line of 64 bytes, so every time you move any data between different parts of memory/cache, the whole 64 bytes goes along with it, even if you only need one bit.
The dual channels are better for compiling because it allows the cpu a lot more flexibility and throughput with reading and writing memory. There’s a lot more to latency than just cas latency, if a row in memory is open we have to wait until we can close it, wait until we can open it, and then wait until we can read/write from it. Doubling the channels gives us half the probability that we will have to wait for a row to be free, plus DDR5 has twice the amount of RAM banks per chip so we half the probability again. This leads to way more random throughput, which is really useful for memory intensive compiling.
@@andrewschmier6749 He didn't specify the burst length nor the type of command; he said one operation = one value when you have one channel, one operation = two values when you have two channels. That's basically what you said except he didn't mention the type of buffering versus cache operations. Which is irrelevant (though interesting, I didn't know). The fact it doesn't translate to exactly 2x throughput is relevant to the topic but not germane to his comment. Soooo. He's not wrong, just vague. Lol
@@andrewschmier6749 I was referring to even a single dimm on a single read. This is the first time I hear of a burst buffer. Yes dual channel is faster in basically every case, but I was referring to the split bus design. I said nothing about clock speed because I at least know that first iteration ram has a total latency (cycles per operation/clock speed) ends up being about the same as the last gen's maybe mid generation ram. (Something like DDR4 3200 CL 16 ~= DDR3 1600 CL 8)
Huh..does that meen DDR5 will bottleneck, and hard because of system wide syncrosity issues? if yu know that is.
@@gorkskoal9315 Speaking strictly about the split bus design (2 32 bit blocks instead of 1 64 bit block), given the same latency, DDR4 vs DDR5 should be the same speed for 64 bit values where DDR5 should be twice as fast (barring other bottlenecks) for sub-32 bit values (assuming pure pools of those values such as large arrays of integers).
I would really love to see how much you tune the ram in these tests. It's taken me years to realize the complete performance of my individual ram modules because tuning is hard. I will never use XMP again since learning this skill.
What gear is ddr4 4400 running on? Feels like it's gear 2. Had the same results in my last video, basicaly, but I also used ddr5 5600-6400 vs ddr4 4800 in my tests.
DDR4 3600-4000 in gear 1 is still extreemly fast, even compared to ddr5-6000+.
4:01 love that the editor (edit: Nicole, Dennis, Marcus, don't know which of you it was, but massive props!) actually hitched and stuttered Linus when he said each word... admittedly it look me a moment to work out if TH-cam was being jank, but still. Very clever! ^_^
It looks like DDR 3600 C16 (or less) is a great value.
g skill flare X is great. its samsung b die and mines been running at 3600 mhz at cl14-14-14-28 for several months with no hickups and a very smooth experience.
There needs to be laws in place to make scalping illegal with at least 5 years of jail
Why? Scalpers wouldn't exist if people didn't buy from them. Just because you don't want to pay that much doesn't mean someone thinks the same. The big problem is that with our supply chain issues, the lack of stock of new cards (or ddr5 ram) is basically non-existent. You may not like it, but I can go out and buy whatever 30 series card I want because scalpers make them available.
Then all retail stores like Best Buy, Target, Walmart, Amazon, Newegg, etc would be shut down.
Oh I'm sorry, did you think these store make the products themselves? No, they buy them.
Oh but did you believe that they sell them at the same price they buy then for? No. They increase the price to make a profit.
Scalpers only exist because the supply is low. And the supply is low because crypto miners are buying them all.
If scalpers didn't exist you simply wouldn't be able to buy a card at all.
@@Luckingsworth Scalping is not free market lol. There's a difference between making a profit and creating an artificial scarcity through no competition and market manipulation. if it was a company doing what scalpers are doing it would've been fined ages ago.
Ah yes, thank you for the insight while I run 1333 Mhz DDR3 memory on an i7-2600k
I loved the small stutters added at 4:01 😂
Great editing!
That attention to detail @4:03 Nice!
My big question is, how long will we have to keep 'settling'?
We have settled for 1, 2, and even 3 generations of video cards now, because of chip shortages, and scalpers, as well as crypto miners.
Now we're having to 'settle' for ddr4, when we should be moving forward.
And eventually we're going to have to 'settle' for buying a complete system, instead of building our own, because prices on components will
be too damn high.
It doesn't help that widows says the system I bought in 2018 is not compatable with windows 11, even though it can play 4k video, and run most games at decent speeds, even with a 1060 card in it.
Being compatible with Windows 11 is about the driver model that the hardware uses, not performance. Also prebuilt prices more or less match diy prices most of the time. Also within the last few gens there has been times where cards were available at msrp, most of the life of RTX 2000 series and RX 5000 series cards you were able to purchase them at or around msrp. Also skipping the first gen of a new memory standard really isn't settling, it'll be a while before you can buy DDR5 memory on a platform that actually makes good use of it.
@@sonicjms Not true, it's about the existence of the TPM. Microsoft wants to ensure they can control your computer remotely.
@@Mavendow idk where you're getting the control your computer remotely stuff from but if it was just TPM Ryzen 1 and Intel 7th gen would be fine
You just need the tpm chip windows 11 requires: th-cam.com/video/sDDSf0lgxVw/w-d-xo.html
I'm waiting to upgrade until Ryzen supports DDR5 and probably until the RTX 4080 Ti launch. I'm currently okay with my 64 GB of 3200 MT/s DDR4, even though I would like to upgrade to something faster at some point. But paying for 64 GB of DDR5 right now would be rather stupid...
Hopefully by December DDR5 price getting lower at least about $400 for 128GB and AMD Zen 4 and RTX 4080 come out and then I can build a new workstation computer
I think that 3D rendering tests should include the time it takes for the scene to finish rendering right after clicking the render button, because memory plays a (small) role in how fast it loads. But that's only for Blender, since Cinebench gives a score result, not time.
Also DDR5 can simply pack more memory per module, that's a big advantage for workstations that is often overlooked.
I would love to see audio processing tests getting incorporated into your bench marking process, as this is what effects me (and many sound/music oriented creators) the most, other than mby gaming ofc. ;)
Thank you for covering this, it's a serious issue right now and places like Amazon and E-Bay should really be doing something to stop it.
that's what you get when profit is placed on the pedestal above all else
As infuriating as it is, I hope there is no intervention. I've been waiting for GPU prices to drop for like a year. Just something you have to put up with when in a capitalistic system. Makes it more worthwhile when the market eventually rebalances and it will. To see the scalpers all trying to sell components far below retail price to salvage what they can. Only thing I'd want is for there to be more sophisticated authentications systems so you cant just rig up a bot to do shopping for you but that's just a pipe dream.
the FTC and FBI need to go after these scalpers, its beyond ridiculous at this point.
For RAM Benchmarks you should add a Benchmark with a huge Factorio world. Factorio is mostly bound to RAM Latency
Nice effect on the hitches and stuttering scene. XD
Had to rewatch.
It would be interesting to know which fabrication process is used by Micron and Samsung here. I thought I read that Samsung had successfully implemented 1a EUV process, but Micron is still lagging and still using older multi patterning and SK Hynix received the equipment from ASML, but it has not yet established the new process.
To be honest I wonder how this will hurt or affect the gameing market for PC users and for people like Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft gaming platforms, thinking that they might have a golden ticket for first wave graphics cards ahead of scalpers will these become the master race over PC? Will this eventually slow the rise of graphics for newer games and realism because the majority of people who are not scalpers can't get a hold of the new generation tech? Something to think about I guess! What can be done for PC GamerZ to help us on our side versus scalpers?
It's a no brainer, same stuff that happened here in Brazil and probably most of the underdeveloped urban world (at least one billion of potential consumers)
Nobody here buy games anymore, every Brazilian gamer plays LOL or CS:GO, valorant, etc. PS4 are starting to appear by now, and almost everyone uses pirate products.
A 1660ti here costs 3 months of salary for most brazillians, pc gaming is dead here for the general public in the last 6/7 years, 15 years ago there were a lot of pc gamers but nowadays it's pretty much a dead market
@@pooshpoosh9232 Oh wow, what a great future to look forward too, been wanting to get out side more nowdays... lol
Ive had a sick 12th gen rig fully completed since November but I bought a ddr5 motherboard and cant use it 👍
Same. GL out there🤞👍
_laughs in quad-channel DDR3_
@4:02 man that stutter got me, thought my graphics card went haywire again
4:00 ooohhh oh god xD the stutter hitch edit
Hopefully soon there will be enough stock for a good price... I'm already waiting :D
"Why are scalpers scalping it then?"
Easy. To make money.
Better question: Why are people paying these inflated prices?
I am the last person to comment on this video ever.
Lol
Can confirm, this man was first.
lmao what is happening here xD
no hurry here. just upgraded. thanks for posting
I'm still running a system that was "average" back in 2014 when I built it. Photoshop, Excel, Word, and web browsing are all plenty fast. I can even play all but the top 20% of demanding games with a fast fps with my ancient GTX 550Ti. Sure, I could probably save some nanoseconds by upgrading, but why? Especially given that my current system is consuming between 50 and 125watts total.
So happy I got a whole new PC (AMD 5600X, 6900XT, 32GB RAM) for almost MSRP in December of 2020. A year later and I could sell it for almost double :D
Same here, walked into microcenter, snagged a 3080 for $750. Got my 3700x a little early so missed the 5000 series but it still kicks ass.
9600XT.
@@nicknack125 you lucky duck, i got a 3070 for $730 at micro center
Your gpu is like 6 years ahead of ours
@@Endermax3852 no it's 18 years behind... (ATI Radeon days)