I’ve seen this happen on a few same year Volkswagen Golf’s. You’d be surprised how many parts are quite similar between those lower end cars and Hurricans/R8.
Oo, a valve spring designed for a golf/rabbit the same in a hurricane? Hmm, maybe that's the answer.. The loading on the hurricane valve spring would be higher than on a golf/rabbit.
@@stuartd9741 you’re most probably right that the load rating is not the same, but probably made in the same factory by the same company with the same quality controls 😉
This happened to my friends 2017 Audi R8 V10, the Dealership wanted to replace the engine but the shop I go to for my R8 V10 Service, just removed the head replaced the spring and he's had no issues ever since.
Thx again O.J. for an informative and funny video, I'm dealing with an 2ur-gse on a lexus isf. With a misfires and im thinking to check valve springs.. i remember while working at Lexus years back many ls460 with the 1ur fse and 2gr for The is250 and they had a bulletin to address valve spring failures...
This content is great and the production is tv show worthy. Up there with my fav shows. Some content showing you pulling the motors and stripping them down would be cool. Maybe you could set up some time lapse cameras around the workshop. Keep up the good work
You should have spotted the broken valve spring before pulling the head. Why didn’t you fit a new spring from Lambo and re-check compression? Could of been a cheap fix compared to an entirely new top end…
We go over that exact scenario in the video. Putting just a new spring in wouldn’t guarantee the valve wasn’t damaged or another spring wouldn’t break 2 weeks later. If the customer spent 10-15 hours of diag and labor to to the job and it happened again a month later to a different spring, they would be upset we didn’t recommend to do them all. The customer chose for us to pull the head in order to get a better idea of scope of the issue.
Hyundai tech here, funny story, certain 2024 palisades are having the same issue, a certain manufacturing run of the 3.8 V6 were produced with weak valve springs and as such they will fracture, not that they cant, that they will.
Great video! I gotta say OJ your presentation was great this video. Thank you for reducing the bouncing around, I know how hard it can be to “talk still”. Great work!
I looked at High Speed Camera captures of valve springs in use at 8500 RPM. The amount of movement not visible to the naked eye is astounding that engine builders were shockingly fearing their past builds would fail like that. It's not impossible that the point of failure is the excessive movements occurs with the valves closed.
OJ, after the boroscope, you can do a leakdown test. It would tell you where the compression is going. The broken spring is probably a material defect. The customer made the right choice by going with upgraded springs. Not familiar with the factory keepers and retainers, but upgrading those as well would be a good idea.
To be honest, when you get into a car like that with that kind of price point, you should definitely know what you are getting into. I've owned my fair share of high maintenance cars in the past, and as cool as a Lamborghini might be, you need to ensure that your pockets and bank account are deep enough for something like this. Third-Party warranty is a no brainer, assuming you can find a company that will give you a fairly comprehensive guarantee...at least on the motor.
Another great video! My grandfather would have used a "generous amount" of JB weld instead of super glue, but hey superglue is cheaper and if it works. . .
The R8 series are know to have week Valve springs, I did replace mine almost as I got it new, Is like the Merc C63 as lots of small issue so took the engine apart and upgrade all the motor.
Interesting video. I would go with upgraded components while your in there and the engine is apart.. .. This future proofs the engine for future mods as stated in the video. .. I can see how the diagnostic side is a difficult area to discuss with the customer but, nevertheless, a bit of detective work is required to resolve the issue -hence upgraded parts. .. As the VAG group owns, VW, Seat, Skoda, Audi, Lamborghini, Porsche its not surprising that there maybe a crossover/interchangability of parts between the different makes.. .. As some have mentioned, a valve spring for a golf/rabbit is the same as in the Hurricane? I think that's the issue. . The cylinder loading /pressure on a golf/rabbit would be less than on a Lamborghini? .. Was the spark plug for cyl 5 a different colour to the rest by any chance? What ever you were eating OJ looks yummy! 👍
Glad to see this video because I'm about to purchase a 2016 TT Huracan so I'll be asking if there's been upgrades in the valve train. Thanks a Million 👍
Get performance springs last longer and do both heads. I'm seeing a lot of c8 regular lt2 motors now that they are higher miles are breaking factory valve springs from people constantly hitting rev limiter
Options, LS swap Remanufactured Heads with valves and springs . If the spring issues are common ,the way forward must be ,replace both heads ,cut down on the labour of diagnostic and disassembly , straight to compression test and if that's proven the best option is to replace the heads or replace the valve springs without disassembly ?
This happened to my 2018 Audi S5. Same exact thing, valve spring unalived itself for no apart reason. Now I know its not the same car, but since they are sister companies maybe there is a connection here. Dealer warrantied it, however they did not give me an easy time either.
I would have gone with option number 2. Only because I did option 3 once and had catastrophic failure. Perhaps bad luck but I’d fear having it happen again. Another informative video!! Now I’m hungry 😂
Tough decision all around. Still this isn’t the first recent VAG product with a broken valve stem we’ve seen at low mileage. So until I see a new part number in the dealer catalog, we’re being cautious in all recommendations.
@FluidMotorUnion Starting at Mercedes next Friday. Did 3yrs in a dealer as our used car mechanic. Meeting you last yr was definitely a motivating experience
Maybe stupid question but would it have been logical to pull the valve covers before removing the heads? Obviously you couldn't fix the problem that way but I'm thinking about minimizing the initial diag cost or a general inspection.
We did one better and used a borescope- It’s a Lamborghini not a Corolla tho. The labor to replace the spring is intense, not as intense as replacing the head, but customers don’t want to chance wasting 12 hours on a gamble. You can’t put it back together just replacing the spring and shrug your shoulders when it’s back together and you find out it’s still not running right… customers aren’t TH-camrs who take gambles with their time. Customers are paying for fixes, and we won’t risk doing the job over. So you take it apart to the least affected part. Lucky here we did cause the valve was bent on top of the spring broken. If I was diy? Yea I might take that chance.
_Oh yeah, 'Chicago Motor Cars' is the place for high-end exotics and the like. (Now onto the best and most reliable exotic: the LFA of course. Because 500 were made, with just 179 being imported into the U.S., I would say hands down the 1LR-GUE engine is the very reason this car is it). And by the way, the market is beyond strong for this 2012 beauty(insert two recent examples sold at Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale)._
Definitely a manufacturing mistake...well now we know why they put the rev limiter on them. I always wondered why the lambo techs said people who sit there and rev the crap out of there cars are a techs nightmare 😂
My R8 lost compression and I was begging for it to be a valve spring. But no. I cracked a piston. Was from the cats being clogged after stupidly not removing them after putting a TT kit on and making 1200+ whp. In the middle of a complete motor build now!
I believe the valve spring issue only affects the Gen 2 v10 R8 and Huracans The Gen 1 v10 R8s supposedly don't have this issue. Also this is a known issue, once you had the compression test noting which cyl had the issue you should have just pulled the valve cover to confirm.
0:30 Lombargine machine 😂😂😂 Do they sell Roys-roys as well? Anyways the channel is great, refreshing to see one without the classic influencer approach
lexus lfa or nsx would be the most reliable.
You forgot 991 turbo s I ve seen turbo s hit more than 500k miles(many). Even huracan with 300knmiles as well
The super glue was a nice touch!
I’ve seen this happen on a few same year Volkswagen Golf’s. You’d be surprised how many parts are quite similar between those lower end cars and Hurricans/R8.
Oo, a valve spring designed for a golf/rabbit the same in a hurricane?
Hmm, maybe that's the answer..
The loading on the hurricane valve spring would be higher than on a golf/rabbit.
@@stuartd9741 you’re most probably right that the load rating is not the same, but probably made in the same factory by the same company with the same quality controls 😉
@@volpswagen_marco so possibly valve springs mixed up between different males?
So valve springs made for a rabbit end up in an Hurricane.....
@@stuartd9741 more likely springs made with the same manufacturing materials that are questionable
I'd love to see an FMU exhaust for the Gen3 Dodge Viper. Thats a car that just doesn't sound all that great, but is such a fun car to be in!
pocket Giardiniera...very underrated also Lamborgine Machine should be on a t-shirt
This happened to my friends 2017 Audi R8 V10, the Dealership wanted to replace the engine but the shop I go to for my R8 V10 Service, just removed the head replaced the spring and he's had no issues ever since.
what did he have to pay?
Thx again O.J. for an informative and funny video, I'm dealing with an 2ur-gse on a lexus isf. With a misfires and im thinking to check valve springs.. i remember while working at Lexus years back many ls460 with the 1ur fse and 2gr for The is250 and they had a bulletin to address valve spring failures...
You really need to do a compression check… that will better point you where to go.
Compression test showed 75psi on Number 8 cylinder spring failed, @@FluidMotorUnion
So far, I would say the Lamborghini has been reliably out of my price range, so I will go with it.
The math is mathing - gotta trust the math.
This content is great and the production is tv show worthy. Up there with my fav shows. Some content showing you pulling the motors and stripping them down would be cool. Maybe you could set up some time lapse cameras around the workshop. Keep up the good work
Thanks - we’ll keep at it!
You should have spotted the broken valve spring before pulling the head. Why didn’t you fit a new spring from Lambo and re-check compression? Could of been a cheap fix compared to an entirely new top end…
We go over that exact scenario in the video. Putting just a new spring in wouldn’t guarantee the valve wasn’t damaged or another spring wouldn’t break 2 weeks later. If the customer spent 10-15 hours of diag and labor to to the job and it happened again a month later to a different spring, they would be upset we didn’t recommend to do them all. The customer chose for us to pull the head in order to get a better idea of scope of the issue.
Love the channel, thank you for taking the time to do these videos. Can we get a video of the history of OJ and Fluid MotorUnion.
Yes!
We are working on it...stay tuned.
Hyundai tech here, funny story, certain 2024 palisades are having the same issue, a certain manufacturing run of the 3.8 V6 were produced with weak valve springs and as such they will fracture, not that they cant, that they will.
Oj your videos have grown by leaps and bounds from you start with LSC and Alex. Good job
Great video! I gotta say OJ your presentation was great this video. Thank you for reducing the bouncing around, I know how hard it can be to “talk still”. Great work!
I looked at High Speed Camera captures of valve springs in use at 8500 RPM. The amount of movement not visible to the naked eye is astounding that engine builders were shockingly fearing their past builds would fail like that. It's not impossible that the point of failure is the excessive movements occurs with the valves closed.
Great information and video, great job
Thanks!
OJ, after the boroscope, you can do a leakdown test. It would tell you where the compression is going. The broken spring is probably a material defect. The customer made the right choice by going with upgraded springs. Not familiar with the factory keepers and retainers, but upgrading those as well would be a good idea.
To be honest, when you get into a car like that with that kind of price point, you should definitely know what you are getting into. I've owned my fair share of high maintenance cars in the past, and as cool as a Lamborghini might be, you need to ensure that your pockets and bank account are deep enough for something like this. Third-Party warranty is a no brainer, assuming you can find a company that will give you a fairly comprehensive guarantee...at least on the motor.
Very true!
Yes, minimum power train extended warranty without any hidden clause.
It’s common to keep Giardiniera in your pocket JIC.
Likely caused by reving the engine lots when not under load, see it at car shows often and wince!
This is how I dropped a valve on my e46 when doing a clumsy rev match.
Donnie hittin’ the hooch LOL 😂
Donnie LOVES the hooch!
Another great video! My grandfather would have used a "generous amount" of JB weld instead of super glue, but hey superglue is cheaper and if it works. . .
I think we have some laying around here somewhere…
The R8 series are know to have week Valve springs, I did replace mine almost as I got it new, Is like the Merc C63 as lots of small issue so took the engine apart and upgrade all the motor.
Interesting video.
I would go with upgraded components while your in there and the engine is apart..
..
This future proofs the engine for future mods as stated in the video.
..
I can see how the diagnostic side is a difficult area to discuss with the customer but, nevertheless, a bit of detective work is required to resolve the issue -hence upgraded parts.
..
As the VAG group owns, VW, Seat, Skoda, Audi, Lamborghini, Porsche its not surprising that there maybe a crossover/interchangability of parts between the different makes..
..
As some have mentioned, a valve spring for a golf/rabbit is the same as in the Hurricane?
I think that's the issue.
.
The cylinder loading /pressure on a golf/rabbit would be less than on a Lamborghini?
..
Was the spark plug for cyl 5 a different colour to the rest by any chance?
What ever you were eating OJ looks yummy!
👍
Duuude, that mustash ... 😂🙈
Glad to see this video because I'm about to purchase a 2016 TT Huracan so I'll be asking if there's been upgrades in the valve train. Thanks a Million 👍
Maybe that's a shrewd negotiating tactic..?
Might be able to get a better deal if the modification hasn't been done?
Good Luck!
Super gluing the valve at the end had me rolling 😂😂😂😂
Subscribed!
You da besttttt!
Get performance springs last longer and do both heads. I'm seeing a lot of c8 regular lt2 motors now that they are higher miles are breaking factory valve springs from people constantly hitting rev limiter
Options,
LS swap
Remanufactured Heads with valves and springs .
If the spring issues are common ,the way forward must be ,replace both heads ,cut down on the labour of diagnostic and disassembly , straight to compression test and if that's proven the best option is to replace the heads or replace the valve springs without disassembly ?
Great job! Very interesting! Congrats on looking fit😊💪🏼
Thank you!! 😁
I guess we won't see that V10 in the ML project then, cool video✌️
Yes this problem is very disqualifying for that reason alone… and not at all the fact we’re to under-budgeted to do it. 😆
This happened to my 2018 Audi S5. Same exact thing, valve spring unalived itself for no apart reason. Now I know its not the same car, but since they are sister companies maybe there is a connection here. Dealer warrantied it, however they did not give me an easy time either.
Great video 👏🏽👍🏽
Thanks for the visit
Sounds like a similar issue the 4.0 turbo engines have. Apparently its an issue on newer Cayennes as well
We’ll stop short of comparing it to other problematic valve spring issues we’ve seen on VAG engines, but will admit a pattern is emerging.
I would have gone with option number 2. Only because I did option 3 once and had catastrophic failure. Perhaps bad luck but I’d fear having it happen again. Another informative video!! Now I’m hungry 😂
Tough decision all around. Still this isn’t the first recent VAG product with a broken valve stem we’ve seen at low mileage. So until I see a new part number in the dealer catalog, we’re being cautious in all recommendations.
If I wasn't a mechanic I would always take my cars to you guys
This might be the greatest complement I’ve ever received..!
@FluidMotorUnion Starting at Mercedes next Friday. Did 3yrs in a dealer as our used car mechanic. Meeting you last yr was definitely a motivating experience
Thats dopr asf dude, Keep on rising 🫡🐐@@aldoc.4288
10:47 Unlikely a 2017 has only 18k miles by end of 2023, probably had a mileage limiter.
The most reliable supercar that never gets talked about is the Acura NSX, by far the most reliable supercar ever made
How did you not see that before removing the heads?
Maybe stupid question but would it have been logical to pull the valve covers before removing the heads? Obviously you couldn't fix the problem that way but I'm thinking about minimizing the initial diag cost or a general inspection.
We did one better and used a borescope- It’s a Lamborghini not a Corolla tho. The labor to replace the spring is intense, not as intense as replacing the head, but customers don’t want to chance wasting 12 hours on a gamble. You can’t put it back together just replacing the spring and shrug your shoulders when it’s back together and you find out it’s still not running right… customers aren’t TH-camrs who take gambles with their time. Customers are paying for fixes, and we won’t risk doing the job over. So you take it apart to the least affected part. Lucky here we did cause the valve was bent on top of the spring broken.
If I was diy? Yea I might take that chance.
Now I need Portillo’s for lunch…
Pocket giardiniera - it’s a Chicago thing, you wouldn’t understand
Leak down test would have found that without removing the head?
_Oh yeah, 'Chicago Motor Cars' is the place for high-end exotics and the like. (Now onto the best and most reliable exotic: the LFA of course. Because 500 were made, with just 179 being imported into the U.S., I would say hands down the 1LR-GUE engine is the very reason this car is it). And by the way, the market is beyond strong for this 2012 beauty(insert two recent examples sold at Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale)._
If you want reliability its always Lexus!
I like the GMC Typhoon way cheaper to maintain.
Most reliable super car; either gen1 Ford gt or chevy corvette z06
What was the fix finally boss? Having same issue with my hurracan
The valve spring we found broken in the video…
Had to replay the "organic misfire detector" couple times to make sure I was doing it right.
Glad you caught it, you are definitely doing it right!
Always go with the high performance up grade, and eat your lunch in private
Definitely a manufacturing mistake...well now we know why they put the rev limiter on them. I always wondered why the lambo techs said people who sit there and rev the crap out of there cars are a techs nightmare 😂
My R8 lost compression and I was begging for it to be a valve spring. But no. I cracked a piston. Was from the cats being clogged after stupidly not removing them after putting a TT kit on and making 1200+ whp. In the middle of a complete motor build now!
Good luck!
10:26 the look on your face
I believe the valve spring issue only affects the Gen 2 v10 R8 and Huracans The Gen 1 v10 R8s supposedly don't have this issue. Also this is a known issue, once you had the compression test noting which cyl had the issue you should have just pulled the valve cover to confirm.
We’ve only heard about it on the v10 engines that share with the huracan… but other VAG engines are experiencing similar problems…
@@FluidMotorUnion reach out the Ricky from Re Performance in the UK. He's a great resource for anything VAG V10 related.
The dry humor puns 🙄😆
The most reliable supercar is the one no one owns! Get it, what tou dont own cant break!! Also i think it woule have to be an a first gen acura nsx
Fact: All real Chicagoans carry pocket giardiniera
0:30 Lombargine machine 😂😂😂 Do they sell Roys-roys as well?
Anyways the channel is great, refreshing to see one without the classic influencer approach
Only if you have very money 😂😉 thanks for the feedback, we appreciate it!
VW's have the same architecture / same problem
my Audi still runs, no broken springs
Alot of people are just gonna fix the spring and sell it.....i know the type...
Early 2000s ford gt
I see where the beef is
But do u pocket Giardiniera?
still seems more reliable than alexs 65amg
lol
Zr1 has to be the most reliable
👏🔥👏🔥👏
Comment for the algorithm
👍
Who has the best Italian Beef in chicago?
Buona
Al's
Why not change the spring before you pilled the head ? I like audi's but they are unreliable and hell to work on
Gen IV Viper is the most reliable supercar
Dodge Viper or LFA… yes Viper. I said what I said lol
💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
Typical VW junk
@reperformance in the UK would be a good contact for info
What are you eating?