Yes he was selling the zurn system versus the uponor system. Mostly in part I think because when you find videos of PEX B they're talking about the PEX be as we all know it with the crimp fittings but the zernpex B is different
Its very confusing because he is talking a bit faster than he is thinking, and trying to impress you. First, he shows you Uponor PEX A on the left (with the white inside and blue outside) and Zurn PEX B on the right. Now PEX A usually comes in clear which would have been a better contrasting choice for the audience. Then he proceeds to do a comparison in which he first picks up B and makes a connection. And he says PEX B but starts talking about Uponor. All good, makes sense IF YOU KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT, although potentially confusing to the viewer. But the real bamboozle is when he crimps the Uponor then holds it up in THE OTHER HAND, while saying the one installs identically to the other (even though he clearly showed the "superior" tool that is use with Zurn). He even moves the PEX A pipe while talking about Zurn's PEX B. THEN he goes on to say that Zurn (he meant to say Uponor) claims their pipe is softer. But that doesn't matter because his guys are experts who can wrangle PEX B. Relevant? Not really. His next criticism is that PEX was invented in the late 60s. Not sure what relevance this has at all. Oh its because he wants to segue to talking about how long he's been working with it (not until 1993) making him an expert. But this expert can't keep the two products straight in a conversation. And his experience is valid but the vendor's experience making the product is not? Edit: I think his comment about PEX A not being suitable for hot water recirc is not about HePEX so I won't contradict him on that. It's an interesting point that he really skips over because I guess he assumes you are already sold on Zurn. Where he gets uppity about "idiots on the internet" claiming that PEX B solutions are cheaper. They are, objectively. That comment is out of line and reduces his credibility a lot, especially because he defends his point by cherry picking the Zurn product he's flogging because "its more expensive". This is all really useful information but he's presenting it in much the way we're used to hearing old men speak to us: they refer to themselves as the authority source instead of sticking to a well researched and referenced explanation. I would hire this guy but I'd second guess everything he said and look it up myself, just because of his presentation.
I thought it was my age until I found more people had the same problem figuring out which pipe was which. From what I saw you know a lot about the products, maybe a redo on the video calling each product by name when you hold it up, so your knowledge is presented more clearly.
Yes PLEASE fix the terminology issues, because It is REALLY confusing when you are saying THIS pipe is better Than THIS pipe, when they both look the same from the angle you are showing them, then a few times you are referencing the Pex B pointing to the Pex A, but calling it Uponor Pex B.... SO CONFUSED!
QUESTION: My major concerns about piping is flow rate and freezing temperatures. I am on well water so there are no chemical contaminates. Silt is the issue and that is addressed with a water filter system. I have an instant on demand hot water heater, so extended heat in the pipes is also not an issue. The questions are when using Pex-b with an expansion ring system, are the fittings inserted inside the pipe and thereby restricting the flow and dropping the pressure? OR will the fittings be the same as those used for the Pex-a. Thanks
Thier warranties are the same for thier pex and pex fittings, 25 years. Expansion pex is the way forward, until they find a way to eliminate those pesky fittings. Just buy what ever expansion brand you can get access to easily, you don't need 1000 psi, unless your toilet is also a rocket ship.
So to answer your question, no, it doesn't have anything to do with freeze burst. Inspectors don't test for it, because it's pointless to factor as a variable. But if you fly your rocket ship toilet to mars, you'll need to factor the freeze psi and the atmospheric pressure differentials through our planet's atmosphere, outer space's void of atmosphere, and mars' atmosphere.
This is great information. My understanding from other videos is that PEX A had higher pressure rating and tighter bending radius. Great to know this has higher pressure rating, but does Zurn PEX B require larger bend radii and does it KINK like other the other PEX B products do as I've seen demos for?
Would it be possible to list the pro's and con's of each in separate columns and in a printable format ? I think that would avoid a lot of confusion and could be kept for future reference.
PEX type A: Very flexible, expandable fittings support, almost no pipe roll memory (where it remembers it was rolled up when you bought it and thus doesn't want to go in a straight line), if you kink the pipe when making a turn it's nothing you can't fix with a hair dryer (or heat gun), circumstantial structural integrity issues and a minor amount of chemical leeching. Type B: Highest burst rating, no leeching, plenty of pipe memory to fight, it's stiffer than type A thus kinking easier, and only certain brands support expansion fittings. Type C: Simply do not. There are no positives to type C that aren't covered by type B. It's got a reputation for being brittle and thus reminding people of Poly B pipe. However, it exists and it's nominally cheaper when you run into it.
To me, the major appeal of the Uponor pipe was the expansion fitting, if there's a better pex pipe that it will work with, that's what I'd want to use.
The PEX B will resist the expansion return in sealing to the fitting. If Zurn formulation rings were used; the expansion return would be slower than with PEX A formulation rings.
I wish you had called each pipe by name in each instance when referring to them instead of calling them this & that. I had a hard time following because of it. I still am not sure which pipe has the higher burst strength? I’m guessing it is Pex A.
@@JoeLudlow Just to clarify, you are not referring to ALL Pex-B having a higher burst pressure here, but specifically ZURN's Pex-B, correct?? It's unfortunate that Zurn can't refer to it under a unique name instead of the ubiquitous "Pex-B" that we all know in the industry. My mind is a little blown right now as well and I thank you for opening my eyes. I've been an Uponor evangelist for years preaching that the Swedish engineered expansion system was the only way to go. The fact that Zurn has developed a silane based pipe (before always associated with an exclusively crimped connection) that can now be connected via an expansion fitting OR a crimp connection is just blowing my mind. @Joe Ludlow, do you know how long that Zurn's Pex-B has been on the market? At this point that "time to prove longevity and durability" is my only concern. Being that the Engel method has been around for decades is real positive in my opinion. Would love to hear more of your thoughts about your field experience specific to Zurn's Pex-B, but perhaps you've already made a video for that as well. I'll search your page now.
Jonah, PEX-B does have a higher burst pressure. Its due to the extrusion method. Zurn jumped into the expansion market as soon as the patent was released, which was over 2 years ago. You can always call me @ 877-473-7473 for more questions.
@@ramblinjamman It's because Pex-B only refers to how it was made. Here in the US, Pex-B has been used to refer to Viega Pex, which is crimp only. ASTM does not refer to the different flavors of Pex by their "A, B, C" designation because of this reason. Might be a better reason to just start calling it by the Manufacture's name instead of how it's made.
@@Zeknix Are you saying you can't use the expansion method on type b Viega pex ? Cause that's what I'm dealing with right now, trying to get away from the sharkbites. Got leaky crimp connections.
Interesting video. When I think Pex-B i think smaller inside diameter, more rigid pipe using pinch or crimp metal bands as opposed to Pex-A where the inside diameter is larger and the fittings are attached using an expansion tool (by the way, both A & B can use smaller, less expensive manual tools). Regarding the burst pressure, does it really matter? Normal residential water pressure is less than 100 psi and hot water boilers run less than 25 psi so whether your pipe can handle 600 psi or 1000 psi is inconsequential and just specs-man-ship. What I look at is cost, ease of installation (bending, attaching fittings, etc.) longevity (time tested proven performance), and if there might be health concerns associated with the pipe. Based on these, my favorite has always been Upnor Pex-A however now that I am aware that Zurn Pex-B installs the same way and has the same size inside diameter, I'll have to check it out.
Hey Joe Ludlow. Thnx for making this video bc I have wondered about these things. I had a rebuttal for using PEX-A bc I've heard it bends easier & tighter & if kinked will retake its shape unlike PEX-B. BUT now I figure that's bc it's softer & the harder PEX-B has more than double the burst rate. Is there ever a time you prefer using PEX-A, like for Radiant flr heating since it bends in a tighter radius? I thought maybe when using PEX-A, a heat source (heat gun or heat chamber) would be good when a tighter radius is necessary. I have another question, by using the Zurn PEX-B-Head, won't the Viega PEX piping work with the Zurn fittings? Well I had more to ask but forgot. So I'll let you go. Thnx again Joe & have a great day, Chris
Where are you getting this information? For example, Uponor burst pressure rating of under 500psi? ASTM F877 testing requires burst pressure testing @600psi, both Uponor Aquapex and Zurn Pex passed testing at highest ‘5’ rating. In fact, both products carry identical 5306 ASTM rating for burst pressure, UV tolerance and Cl decay. In real world applications, we’ve seen burst pipe failures of PexB only, never PexA, though PexB still far superior to Cu pipe in severe freeze tolerance. This is for applications in CO Rockies and BigSky-Bozeman region of MT. From purely ease of install, Uponor is far superior due to its flexibility. When feeding through stud bays, the labor costs alone make Uponor the preferred choice. I’ve never heard Uponor cannot be used in domestic hot water recirculation systems. Where in building code is this published? We’ve installed Uponor in domestic hot water recirculating systems in 80% of our homes the last 15 years. Never had a single issue. Domestic hot water systems are typically 125F at heater, this will have no affect on Uponor pipe integrity or function. We in fact employ Rehau O2 barrier Pex in hydronic in-floor primary heat systems in all of our homes. Most over the last decade have used Warmboard or Thermalboard thus temps are commonly 85-90F at heat source but the vast majority of homes employ hydronic heated garage floors using same O2 barrier Pex recirculating 145F water, again absolutely no failures in piping. We have no experience w/Zurn PexB, beyond local building reps giving us a sales demonstration pitch. Again, my plumbers mostly expressed concerns w/handling the far stiffer material.
Hey Michael I am a 10 year plumber that owns his own small outfit. I have several repipes coming up and have to make the switch to an expansion system. I've used crip style crap while working for a different company. I'm also a solder guy. I like to sweat some copper. However it is not practical in many situations. My question is what in the sam hell is happening in this video. I have never seen PEX B expand like this. I've always known it to be very rigid and didn't have a memory to go back to the same size. It has a permanent kink if you bend it. I need to switch to a expansion system this week and want to deliver the best product on the market for my clients. Price makes no difference, high quality is my goal. Can you guys please help me understand what system will be the best over time and highest quality for my clients. Thanks
@@jeremygallimore3042 I have no hands-on experience w/Zurn PexB. We’ve had local supplier come to job site to demonstrate the Zurn product but that’s extent of my experience. I can say the Zurn is much less stiff than most PexB, though in truth my guys haven’t used any PexB is 5+ years. We’ve been using Uponor for all domestic water plumbing and Rehau O2 barrier in all hydronic heat applications. I am not a chemical engineer but I suspect Zurn chemists have developed a moisture curing (Pex B crosslinking method) method that results in higher crosslinking. The primary difference in Pex A & Pex B is crosslinking %; Pex A is min 80%, Pex B 60%. While we commonly use Zurn pressure regulators and back flow valves, my guys chose to not use the Zurn Pex. While it’s more flexible than most PexB, it’s is definitely stiffer than Uponor thus installing through stud bays will be more laborious. With identical ASTM test ratings, and similar fitting costs, installation labor becomes the primary deciding factor. Uponor wins that factor hands down. I would say in your case product availability should be verified. If Uponor is readily available, that’s the best choice. There are however other PexA offerings with much different ASTM ratings. For example if you have high Cl content in your water supply, I’d suggest Zurn PexB over Apollo or Rehau non-barrier Pex A.
@Kenneth & Bia PEX has been extensively tested and every verified lab test I’ve seen it’s inert. There should be zero chemical leeching when used in domestic water plumbing applications. Compared to Cu, lab testing results indicate much less contamination though w/elimination of Pb solder in domestic water applications, the primary leeching found in Cu plumbing is Cuprous Oxide , Copper Peroxide and Copper 3 Oxide. None of these compounds are considered harmful to humans in the extreme low concentrations found in Cu plumbed systems. With Pex, be it Pex-A or Pex-B, I would be more concerned with material degradation than chemical leeching. No Pex should ever be left to UV exposure exceeding 90 days. Even during rough plumbing, it’s scheduled to limit UV exposure to as minimal as possible. I would also recommend evaluating each vendor offering prior to purchase and install for CL reactive rating, particularly if using well or private watering sources. Most municipal water systems have very low, 4 ppm is allowable limits but 1-1.5 ppm is commonly found in testing, CL content. Well and private systems will vary quite substantially, often nearing or even exceeding that 4ppm allowable limit. Refer to the Pex manufacturers ASTM F2023 results for CL resistance. This testing protocol is at 140F, far exceeding the 120-125F commonly found in residential applications. It is however a test for long term exposure of 4ppm CL water at 140F. A ‘1’represents passing grade at 6 hrs/day, a ‘3’ is 12 hr/day exposure and a ‘5’ is a 24 hr/day passing grade. A 1 is acceptable in most residential applications where recirc system is not employed. A 3 is recommended in non-recirc systems involving well or private water systems w/possible high concentrations of CL. A ‘5’ would be required in applications involving a recirc system, particularly if CL levels exceed 2 ppm in testing. In applications that are deemed ‘non-serviceable’ such as garage concrete slabs, we always install and recommend to client they maintain system using distilled water and a surfactant or propylene glycol additive which would result in zero CL content.
Thanks for the video, what do you think about the Home Depot stuff, they call it Apollo? Can you use the same fitting on all three, basically are fittings interchangeable on say 3/4" in pipe, and also the expansion bands?
Good video. I appreciate all of his knowledge and experience. I have watched the video probably 3 to 4 times and continue to get information from it on each viewing. Thanks Joe.
You bring up an interesting perspective, my inquiry is about the Pex A was designed to work with the expansion system and to continually seek its original shape which means that it is always tightening onto the fitting. whereas pex B was designed to be crimped. How well does the pex b work in the function that it was not designed for? I am not a pro plumber but will be building my own home this summer and was set on using pex A for the areas that I will not be using copper - the hot water water lines. However, I am always seeking for the best methods.
Pex B is designed for it, with certain brands. You're correct that type A was designed for it from the get go, PEX type B on the other hand it was something of an after thought. However the main clamping power is coming from the, for lack of a better term, type A style ring that you're putting on the connection. And that is regardless of type A or B. So pretty much if you are using the preformed 90 degree sweeps that you buy from HD or Lowes or plumbing supply house then there's not a significant difference because those turn assist holders are designed to work with every type of PEX without kinking. Which sort of mutes the point of type A being more flexible. When following plumbing code all of the PEX pipes follow the same rules for how often they must be clamped/supported and what pex is or isn't allowed to come into contact with. At the end of all that, the flexibility of Type A does make it slightly easier to run, however as a professional plumber who installs this stuff multiple times each week, I feel more confident installing type B, regardless of crimping or expanding. That's with knowing the pros and cons list.
@@TOMTOM-nh3nl I choose to repeat whatever has already been used, to match the style of whatever has already been installed. If there's no other PEX installed then it's a horse a piece. I try not to go to the store for a particular job unless it's a big re pipe, so at times it is simply based on what I've got the correct parts in my van for.
@@TOMTOM-nh3nl my exception would be the copper crimp rings, when I say crimp I actually refer to the stainless steel pinch clamps. I find accessibility to be an issue with the copper crimp tools, thus I avoid them. Not that there's an issue with the copper crimp rings as a system, heck I can crimp them in a jiffy with my m12 propress.
Uponor Warranty is 25 years (10 if you use non-uponor fittings). You also get (only) 10 years for uponor manifolds. Also, uponor pex is rated a (5), the same as zurn pex b for hot recirc lines (24 hours a day).
I was told by pretty much every plumbing supply that expansion can't be used on PEX-B. Is there a reason they would all say this? It's even in some of the manuals.
very informative, thanks for clearing up the differences, contracts don't tell you this they want to keep you in the dark and you've clearly made this video so you can understand the differences even if you not in the industry!!! thank you - great video and great explanation!!!!
This could have been a very good video, but which pipe is which. There are mostly just references to "this pipe" and "this pipe" and "this pipe" without identifying which is which. I quit watching at about 5:25 when he starts referring to 1 of the pipe (you know, the blue one) as Uponor PEX-B. Wasn't the video about Uponor PEX-A?
Joe: if you used RED for the Uponor pex A and BLUE for the ZURN pex B it would have been easier for me to follow your comparison between the two pex types. OR write the NAME of the pex on the side of the piping for reference. Thank you! And the BORN on date is great to know!!
great video thanks for all the professional details. quick question does the Zurn PEX- B have the same turn radius and kinks free or reheat to get a kink out like Uponor?
No, no it does not. That's perhaps the biggest downside to any PEX-B. However, if you're using the turn assist fittings that are readily available at just about every plumbing related store then those will clip onto any type of PEX (a, b, or c) and provide the perfect kink free turn radius.
This guy is so confused and wrong. But to answer your question, you can use pex b fitting on a or b pex, you can only use pex a fittings on pex a. By the way, pex b does not expand, only pex a!
so pex-a and pex-b can be used with expansion fittings? i just got an expansion tool and have only heard that only pex-a can be expanded because its softer and will shrink back better
Can Zurn Pex B pipe, Collars and various fittings be bought at Home Depot or Lowes? I have just recently bought the Milwaukee M12 Tool that you are using, (with the 3 different sized heads), and would want to go with the product that lasts the longest, as who wants to re-do all the Pex pipe in a house after 10, or even 25 years later?!? Not me, that’s for sure!
I had to watch other videos to find out that ZURN is an exception to PEX B in that all other PEX B installs differently with restrictive fittings. I don't understand what qualifies the Zurn or any pex as Pex A or Pex B.
Potentially a very useful video, thx, but from your discussion and switching of pipes between left and right hands, and which pipe you shake while talking, it's not clear to me, as a viewer, which is best for what. Is Zurn only in your right or left hand?
Do you have to use the Zurn expander heads with Zurn Pex B or can you use the heads that come with the tool? The expander tools are already quite pricey ... if you have to buy new heads to use Zurn Pex B, that would suck.
Thank you for educating me. I am absolutely terrified now! Last year I lost my home to a tornado, my family survived thank God. However, we are rebuilding. I was planning on Uponor, but now through your videos I need to go with Zurn. But even Zurn seems to be a problem in your book. My question, if you were building your own house, what would you put in for plumbing? As you said all this is very old technology and the plumbing manufactures have done little or nothing to improve it. I have also learned that I need to make sure the installing contractor aware of the cold weather. I am in TN but my house build should start next week. Thank you again for your videos. They sure are valuable knowledge.
I am confused same as u, i saw his video saying Uponor A keeps failing and there is lawsuit against Uponor and here in this video he is saying Uponor is better than other pipe which is zurn pex A. I planning to build a house so just looking what should i use.
@@matijaivankovic2946 Joe sometimes transposes Zurn for Uponor and vice versa. His basic message is that Zurn B is a superior product than Uponor A. He admits the Uponor is more flexible and has a tighter turning radius and is easier to install, but he believes those aren't worth the tradeoff of what seems to be a shorter life than Zurn B.
@@ohger1 "Joe sometimes transposes Zurn for Uponor and vice versa." That's a major problem in a video where he's trying to differentiate the two products.
pex a fitting can only be used on pex a. pex b fitting can be used on pex a or b! And yes, if you use pex b fittings on pex a, you crimp it with the same pex b crimp rings!
No manufacturer will honor the 25 year warranty unless you use their fittings. If you mix and match the warranty can decrease to 10 years for some manufacturers and even to 1 year for others. Always use it as a complete system for the warranty to stay intact.
How are you able to expand pex B? I thought you can't use expansion fittings on Pex B. You should also consider using PTC fittings like Quickfitting. Quickfitting has a 70 year warranty on their ptc fittings and they take a lot less time to install and they are not as expensive as Sharkbite.
I install all my own plumbing, I don’t hire it done,so I went with the SS pinch rings, cheaper tools and if I ever have to remove just pull tab with plyers
I have a question. Bought an 8 year old home with Uponor pex a. Six months later got a leak mid-pipe near the water heater. Repaired it and then later discovered all the problems with the older Uponor pipe that's white inside and red outside. My red pipe is red all the way through. Asked Uponor about the problem and they wanted me to send them the bad piece for analysis. Unfortunately I had thrown it away. Is the newer Uponor red all the way through pipe still failing?
Anyone use Pex A on water circ system feeding a radiant heat system? Planned on using Uponor to connect manifold to boiler but now not sure what to do.
Great vid and I need to have my home re-piped, btu all the plumbers doing Pex-B are using non-expansion crimp with fittings that reduce the inner diameter water flow. Wish I could find a plumber here that will do what you are showing.
I'm seeing in my area that plumbers are using the non-expansion crimp fittings. In fact, this very day a plumber came to my place of work to move a water heater. I asked him about the expansion fittings and tools, and he said he had never heard of them and that the local supply houses don't have them. This guy's been a plumber for decades. I prefer the expansion fittings because they don't restrict water flow (like you mentioned) and I think it's a better connection; seems less prone to fail than methods using metal rings.
Do you use strictly zurn fittings ? I am about to do a repipe for one of my houses and been watching your video’s and after watching your video’s I decided to use zern. The home is on a well system is there anything to worry about with it being a well?
I've asked this for years, Ferguson has always preached Class A was better pipe and the local supply house here in Middle TN has sold Zurn Class B pipe though only selling the crimp fittings, I had a few leaks with the zurn crimps 6 years ago and having only used the more expensive uponor piping, Assuming you can use the uponor expander heads on the Zurn pipe without buying another head or tool? Local supplier also said Ferguson owned a manufacturing facility of the product?
There is No Such Thing as Class A. A is an extrusion method. B is an Extrusion Method. C is an extrusion method. My goal #1 is to try and help plumbers and homeowners understand best practices in potable water pipes for all homeowners. My goal #2 is to inspire pipe manufactures to build a better product. technology is not moving forward fast enough in the potable water pipe industry. I will do another video on Uponor Expander Heads Are Approved for the Zurn Pex B Pipe . You Do Not Need To Buy Another Tool. Ferguson Spain manufactured pipe in not something I would ever install in a home.
Can you install pex A pipe with coupling with any pex male or female adaptor sell at Home Depot or Lowe’s ? Or Pex A coupling has to go with special pex A male or female adaptor ?
PEX B pipes are more harder than PEX A ones, but siloxane cross linked PEX B pipes are more stable against high temperature and oxygen destruction I think !
@@walterbrunswick In addition, these pipes become even harder over time, because under the influence of external factors, the crosslinking of their molecules continues.
@@stevem1081 Yes all plastics harden over time but at different speed and at different external and internal factors (radiation, oxygenation, temperature, PH...)
Have Uponor PEX-A a lot and just found out have Zurn PEX-B expansion Pex-B; so, can I use Zurn PEX-B with Uponor PEX-A and vice versa in a Res house? Or can I not mix products at all? Thx for this and glad clicked on this vid. Cheers✌🏻
Maybe I am missing something when you use the expansion tool I have been told the head needs to rotate after each time it opens I am not seeing that in the video, also has pex B always had the expansion properties or is that something new thank you for your information
The m12 and M18 and DeWalt and rls and all other battery powered pex expansion tools rotate slightly at each expansion. That’s why Milwaukee instructions on their tools recommend up to 7 expansions before releasing the tool from the pipe. It balanaces the expansion process on the full diameter of the pipe before inserting the fitting.
I'm confused. I just watched a video from another plumbing channel saying Pex A uses the expansion tool and Pex B uses a crimp tool with an insert that reduces the flow. Now this guy is saying they both use the same fittings and the same expansion tool.
I saw a video you did comparing type a to type b Pex. You explained why you liked type a better because of the why the pipe is fitted to the fittings, also how the od of the fitting was the same as the pipe. I am getting ready to install type b because it is cheaper but having a restriction in water flow at every connection concerned me. I was sure I didn't want to redo it later and didn't know how to avoid it using type b because I have budget issues. I watched this video and because you explained that both types can be installed the same way using expansion, you solved my problem. Thank you Joe, I appreciate your honesty. I have another question: can crimp rings be used on the f fittings for type a?
But do you need the stronger stuff? What would be good to know is up north side by side comparison in the frozen MN winter. I'd like to be shown why you need the bigger thicker tubing. Put water in it and freeze them both and lets see the comparison. Yes i get it of course. But if you lived in Texas do you need the stronger stuff, it isn't gonna freeze. Not knocking your video just want to know why i would need the stronger one besides the fact its stronger. What is my situation where I need 1000psi vs 450psi bursting resistance. City water 60psi, all house fixtures under 10psi, solder joint on copper is about 440psi. Cheap type M copper tubing 6,000psi. A soldered coupling bursting pressure vs PexA/B coupling bursting pressure. These are the important questions. Its not stronger than copper pipe, might be lighter and easier to install but doesn't mean its actually better. Its better is used too loosely. I just gave you the motive for your next video. I use PexA, copper, sharkbites, whatever the situation calls for, I'm sure you do too. Plus those stupid plastic and brass pex fittings rattle around together and nick the barbs and cause leaks that don't show up for a few days. Thats not cool. You practically need a fresh bag of fittings for every job. By the way, I like your video's. Once again I am NOT barking ay you or your videos, they are great.
Most of our videos are focused for the water conditions in California. California needs a pipe that has a high tolerance for chloramines. The chemical reaction with high chloramine content in California is causing pin hole/slab leaks in copper and fractures in PEX-A. In future videos we with clarify more and focus more on our area of services.
If you would have only taken a Sharpie and written the letters A & B on the two different pipes... Sometimes you call it type A, but then you call it Upunor, then THIS one and THAT one, but because you sometimes hold Type A in your right hand and Type B in your left and sometimes you hold it in the opposite hand. I rewatched the video like eight times because you made it so confusing, why didn't you use two different color pipes? You are the ONLY one that says Type A cannot be used to recirculate, the only one.... I understand the release of chemicals and the breakdown of the material, but you make it seem like you can only use type B for recirculation. When in fact you should have simply said "Make sure the pex you choose is recirculation rated... You seemed like you were the guy, but you sent me on a wild goose chase.
Few questions. So as not to confuse the issue I will refer to Zurn pex as Zurn and any other B pex as PEX B. Can Zurn be heated to remove a kink? Is Zurn UV stabilized and if so for how long? Does Zurn come with an oxygen barrier for ferrous heating systems? B pex was never really an option for hydronic heating systems because of the pressure drop caused by the fittings.
Can Zurn be heated to remove a kink? You should never heat PEX to remove kinks. Is Zurn UV stabilized and if so for how long? Zurn PEX has a 6 month UV resistant's. Does Zurn come with an oxygen barrier for ferrous heating systems? I would contact Zurn, we only focus on potable water systems.
Can one use uponor fittings on Zurn Pex-B pipe? Homeowner asking. Uponor has more fittings available. I am repiping my home a little at a time and have used Uponor thus far and have lots of Uponor fitting on hand.
@@JoeLudlow Thanks, for the reply. I was thinking it had to be installed by a professional plumber for the warranty. It's not a big or expensive house either.
at my plumbing shop we use pex b however we use crimp rings with a hand held crimp tool. not a giant pro press tool like you showed in the video.... the fittings do create a flow restriction though.
Please under stand. I removed plastic pipe (Polybutylene) in 32,000 homes under Cox V Shell class action. those homes all used copper crimp rings and the big press tool did not exist at that time. The small copper crimp tool is the best tool just stay away from yellow brass fittings and keep the tool calibrated at all times. Copper crimp are to stronger for yellow brass fittings. That said a properly installed copper crimp ring with good plastic fittings rarely fail. hope that helps.
Wow thanks, I didn't know about such a different PEX-B. Still, PEX-A can bend more w/o kink, and that's way more critical for me than the bursting pressures that are already "insanely" high anyway.
@@stipcrane Uponor red and blue pex A pipes have been recalled because of failures nation wide ( 2 months ago) because the pipe is only lasting 7 years then hundreds of small fractures show up and leak. How could you not know that? Do not worry. I am building a new web site that will bring the world up to speed on what is really happening. Remember I spend $5,000.00 to $15,000.00 a day on pex pipe since 1993. So you and I are from two different universes. The new website will help the public I prommiss.
Uponor pex A Red and Blue pipes have been recalled and will never be sold again any where, ever. Uponor Pex A has been failing after 7 years nation wide. Pex A and pex B have the same (required bend radius) but with Uponor failing after 7 years and Zurn not failing you may be able to understand why I spend my $ 5,000.00 to $15,000.00 a day on the pipe that does not fail.
If you fix the Uponor Pex pipe kink with a heat gun you void the Uponor warranty. All Kinks have to be cut out on any type of pipe CPVC or copper or Pex, or you are in violation of every plumbing code on earth. Using a heat gun permanently damages the pipe but to Uponor shame they do not disclose this fact so you find out after you claim is denied. Uponor Pex A Red and Blue pipes where recalled because of failures nation wide. 7 years then fail Uponor Pex A.
I don’t know why he is doing this trying to confuse people. “PEX B is not expandable and you should never expand the end of a PEX-B pipe. Kink-Resistance - PEX-A has the greatest resistance, PEX-B the lowest. You should never install kinked pipe.”
@@IntegrityRepipeInc This video is very confusing if you are new to all of this, I'm not, and know what you are attempting to convey... You really need to remake this video... And as far as Zurn, can't find it anywhere.
Getting ideas on products to re-pipe my polybutelene equipped home from 1994 and the Zurn sounds good. That is until I see lawsuits from leaks and wonder what the heck is going on with this. Are their claims valid or is this slander from Uponor or other PEX mfgs?
1994? Wow, you just missed the point where the couldn't install it any longer. My home was built in 1991 and it is infested with PolyB. It's kept me up at night.
@@IceAgeSquirrel2008 My 1994 home is fully of polybutylene, too. I’m planning on a full re-pipe next summer but my finances dictate that it has to be a DIY job. I’m not looking forward to it but I really don’t like living with the constant worry of something bursting.
@@TheMamamarieke I understand. I would rather learn and make a few mistakes on m own than spend thousands and thousands for a plumber. And contractors never really care as much as I do about the job.
Listen to the video again,it doesn't matter if it is red ,white, or blue,or even the semi clear pipe . it's the extrusion process that makes the difference. Color makes absolutely no difference.none of my supplier sell Zurn pex b,so I can't compare the two pipes that said I saw in a earlier thread that Sioux Chief makes pex b suitable for cold expansion.That is available at Menards.I can definitely see the color difference between those two pipes.
Sir you are spot on ,I don't believe that you are a shill for Zurn, Locally my supplier does not sell Zurn pex b,in fact where I live in So Il after the pandemic we are thrilled with any material we can get in a timely manner . My question for you is this ,I saw someone say in the comments made the statement that Sioux Chief makes pex suitable for expansion,but he did not state if it was pex b or pex a.very informative vid thanks
Notice how does not show the inside diameter of the Zurn fitting. The Upanour inside fitting dia. Is the same as the the pipe ‘s inside diameter. This is why it must be expanded to fit . Thus, with the Upanour Pex A there is NO flow restriction!
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I got very confused which tubing he kept referring to. Marking them would've helped.
Did you find yourself drooling a lot?
Me too. 😣. And I was drooling too
I did too but bottom line Zurn is better.
Yes he was selling the zurn system versus the uponor system. Mostly in part I think because when you find videos of PEX B they're talking about the PEX be as we all know it with the crimp fittings but the zernpex B is different
Its very confusing because he is talking a bit faster than he is thinking, and trying to impress you.
First, he shows you Uponor PEX A on the left (with the white inside and blue outside) and Zurn PEX B on the right. Now PEX A usually comes in clear which would have been a better contrasting choice for the audience.
Then he proceeds to do a comparison in which he first picks up B and makes a connection. And he says PEX B but starts talking about Uponor. All good, makes sense IF YOU KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT, although potentially confusing to the viewer.
But the real bamboozle is when he crimps the Uponor then holds it up in THE OTHER HAND, while saying the one installs identically to the other (even though he clearly showed the "superior" tool that is use with Zurn). He even moves the PEX A pipe while talking about Zurn's PEX B. THEN he goes on to say that Zurn (he meant to say Uponor) claims their pipe is softer. But that doesn't matter because his guys are experts who can wrangle PEX B. Relevant? Not really.
His next criticism is that PEX was invented in the late 60s. Not sure what relevance this has at all. Oh its because he wants to segue to talking about how long he's been working with it (not until 1993) making him an expert. But this expert can't keep the two products straight in a conversation. And his experience is valid but the vendor's experience making the product is not?
Edit: I think his comment about PEX A not being suitable for hot water recirc is not about HePEX so I won't contradict him on that. It's an interesting point that he really skips over because I guess he assumes you are already sold on Zurn.
Where he gets uppity about "idiots on the internet" claiming that PEX B solutions are cheaper. They are, objectively. That comment is out of line and reduces his credibility a lot, especially because he defends his point by cherry picking the Zurn product he's flogging because "its more expensive".
This is all really useful information but he's presenting it in much the way we're used to hearing old men speak to us: they refer to themselves as the authority source instead of sticking to a well researched and referenced explanation. I would hire this guy but I'd second guess everything he said and look it up myself, just because of his presentation.
I thought it was my age until I found more people had the same problem figuring out which pipe was which. From what I saw you know a lot about the products, maybe a redo on the video calling each product by name when you hold it up, so your knowledge is presented more clearly.
Sorry I will make new videos to fix this. My bad!
@@JoeLudlow please turn up the audio as well, I had to turn my volume way up
@@walterbrunswick Yeah, me too. I was thinking I was the only one.
Yeah, I got confused, too. It wasn't clear.
Yes PLEASE fix the terminology issues, because It is REALLY confusing when you are saying THIS pipe is better Than THIS pipe, when they both look the same from the angle you are showing them, then a few times you are referencing the Pex B pointing to the Pex A, but calling it Uponor Pex B.... SO CONFUSED!
uponor can be used on recirc lines, you just have to size the pump and pipe correctly. Which you should be doing regardless.
I thought he said that referring to the pipe in his right hand. LOL
QUESTION: My major concerns about piping is flow rate and freezing temperatures. I am on well water so there are no chemical contaminates. Silt is the issue and that is addressed with a water filter system. I have an instant on demand hot water heater, so extended heat in the pipes is also not an issue. The questions are when using Pex-b with an expansion ring system, are the fittings inserted inside the pipe and thereby restricting the flow and dropping the pressure? OR will the fittings be the same as those used for the Pex-a. Thanks
Thier warranties are the same for thier pex and pex fittings, 25 years. Expansion pex is the way forward, until they find a way to eliminate those pesky fittings. Just buy what ever expansion brand you can get access to easily, you don't need 1000 psi, unless your toilet is also a rocket ship.
So the psi has nothing to do with preventing freeze burst?
You're talking 25,000 psi. What pipe do you plan to use for that pressure?
So to answer your question, no, it doesn't have anything to do with freeze burst. Inspectors don't test for it, because it's pointless to factor as a variable. But if you fly your rocket ship toilet to mars, you'll need to factor the freeze psi and the atmospheric pressure differentials through our planet's atmosphere, outer space's void of atmosphere, and mars' atmosphere.
He said PEX B does not leach chemicals and can handle water with chloramine.
@@cylon5741 they both leach, look it up.
This is great information. My understanding from other videos is that PEX A had higher pressure rating and tighter bending radius.
Great to know this has higher pressure rating, but does Zurn PEX B require larger bend radii and does it KINK like other the other PEX B products do as I've seen demos for?
Would it be possible to list the pro's and con's of each in separate columns and in a printable format ?
I think that would avoid a lot of confusion and could be kept for future reference.
PEX type A:
Very flexible, expandable fittings support, almost no pipe roll memory (where it remembers it was rolled up when you bought it and thus doesn't want to go in a straight line), if you kink the pipe when making a turn it's nothing you can't fix with a hair dryer (or heat gun), circumstantial structural integrity issues and a minor amount of chemical leeching.
Type B:
Highest burst rating, no leeching, plenty of pipe memory to fight, it's stiffer than type A thus kinking easier, and only certain brands support expansion fittings.
Type C:
Simply do not.
There are no positives to type C that aren't covered by type B.
It's got a reputation for being brittle and thus reminding people of Poly B pipe.
However, it exists and it's nominally cheaper when you run into it.
I’m really confused also, I thought he said pex a havr no leech?
@@randomizer3775 watch again
@@walterbrunswick
5:25 Uponor Pex B?
3:29 he said Zurn but point to Pex A?
Need to edit your videos. You kept calling pipes the wrong names. Confusing.
To me, the major appeal of the Uponor pipe was the expansion fitting, if there's a better pex pipe that it will work with, that's what I'd want to use.
The PEX B will resist the expansion return in sealing to the fitting.
If Zurn formulation rings were used; the expansion return would be slower than with PEX A formulation rings.
Did you watch the video? He was using PEX b with the expansion fittings.
He must have said they install identically 10 times.
I wish you had called each pipe by name in each instance when referring to them instead of calling them this & that. I had a hard time following because of it. I still am not sure which pipe has the higher burst strength? I’m guessing it is Pex A.
Thank you for the feedback I will do better. Just FYI PEX-B is the higher burst pressure.
@@JoeLudlow Just to clarify, you are not referring to ALL Pex-B having a higher burst pressure here, but specifically ZURN's Pex-B, correct?? It's unfortunate that Zurn can't refer to it under a unique name instead of the ubiquitous "Pex-B" that we all know in the industry. My mind is a little blown right now as well and I thank you for opening my eyes. I've been an Uponor evangelist for years preaching that the Swedish engineered expansion system was the only way to go. The fact that Zurn has developed a silane based pipe (before always associated with an exclusively crimped connection) that can now be connected via an expansion fitting OR a crimp connection is just blowing my mind. @Joe Ludlow, do you know how long that Zurn's Pex-B has been on the market? At this point that "time to prove longevity and durability" is my only concern. Being that the Engel method has been around for decades is real positive in my opinion. Would love to hear more of your thoughts about your field experience specific to Zurn's Pex-B, but perhaps you've already made a video for that as well. I'll search your page now.
Jonah, PEX-B does have a higher burst pressure. Its due to the extrusion method. Zurn jumped into the expansion market as soon as the patent was released, which was over 2 years ago. You can always call me @ 877-473-7473 for more questions.
@@ramblinjamman It's because Pex-B only refers to how it was made. Here in the US, Pex-B has been used to refer to Viega Pex, which is crimp only. ASTM does not refer to the different flavors of Pex by their "A, B, C" designation because of this reason. Might be a better reason to just start calling it by the Manufacture's name instead of how it's made.
@@Zeknix Are you saying you can't use the expansion method on type b Viega pex ? Cause that's what I'm dealing with right now, trying to get away from the sharkbites. Got leaky crimp connections.
How much kickback do you get from zurn
LOL Pretty funny but Zurn got its ass kicked in this video.
Interesting video. When I think Pex-B i think smaller inside diameter, more rigid pipe using pinch or crimp metal bands as opposed to Pex-A where the inside diameter is larger and the fittings are attached using an expansion tool (by the way, both A & B can use smaller, less expensive manual tools). Regarding the burst pressure, does it really matter? Normal residential water pressure is less than 100 psi and hot water boilers run less than 25 psi so whether your pipe can handle 600 psi or 1000 psi is inconsequential and just specs-man-ship. What I look at is cost, ease of installation (bending, attaching fittings, etc.) longevity (time tested proven performance), and if there might be health concerns associated with the pipe. Based on these, my favorite has always been Upnor Pex-A however now that I am aware that Zurn Pex-B installs the same way and has the same size inside diameter, I'll have to check it out.
Proving that you listened to and understood the video unlike some of these other commentors here.
Amazing point on the use of Zurn pipe for recirc lines. I never knew that.
He is incorrect zurn is Shitty
Agreed! Nobody else ever mentions that.
Hey Joe Ludlow. Thnx for making this video bc I have wondered about these things. I had a rebuttal for using PEX-A bc I've heard it bends easier & tighter & if kinked will retake its shape unlike PEX-B. BUT now I figure that's bc it's softer & the harder PEX-B has more than double the burst rate. Is there ever a time you prefer using PEX-A, like for Radiant flr heating since it bends in a tighter radius? I thought maybe when using PEX-A, a heat source (heat gun or heat chamber) would be good when a tighter radius is necessary.
I have another question, by using the Zurn PEX-B-Head, won't the Viega PEX piping work with the Zurn fittings?
Well I had more to ask but forgot.
So I'll let you go.
Thnx again Joe & have a great day, Chris
Where are you getting this information? For example, Uponor burst pressure rating of under 500psi? ASTM F877 testing requires burst pressure testing @600psi, both Uponor Aquapex and Zurn Pex passed testing at highest ‘5’ rating. In fact, both products carry identical 5306 ASTM rating for burst pressure, UV tolerance and Cl decay. In real world applications, we’ve seen burst pipe failures of PexB only, never PexA, though PexB still far superior to Cu pipe in severe freeze tolerance. This is for applications in CO Rockies and BigSky-Bozeman region of MT.
From purely ease of install, Uponor is far superior due to its flexibility. When feeding through stud bays, the labor costs alone make Uponor the preferred choice.
I’ve never heard Uponor cannot be used in domestic hot water recirculation systems. Where in building code is this published? We’ve installed Uponor in domestic hot water recirculating systems in 80% of our homes the last 15 years. Never had a single issue. Domestic hot water systems are typically 125F at heater, this will have no affect on Uponor pipe integrity or function. We in fact employ Rehau O2 barrier Pex in hydronic in-floor primary heat systems in all of our homes. Most over the last decade have used Warmboard or Thermalboard thus temps are commonly 85-90F at heat source but the vast majority of homes employ hydronic heated garage floors using same O2 barrier Pex recirculating 145F water, again absolutely no failures in piping.
We have no experience w/Zurn PexB, beyond local building reps giving us a sales demonstration pitch. Again, my plumbers mostly expressed concerns w/handling the far stiffer material.
Hey Michael I am a 10 year plumber that owns his own small outfit. I have several repipes coming up and have to make the switch to an expansion system. I've used crip style crap while working for a different company. I'm also a solder guy. I like to sweat some copper. However it is not practical in many situations. My question is what in the sam hell is happening in this video. I have never seen PEX B expand like this. I've always known it to be very rigid and didn't have a memory to go back to the same size. It has a permanent kink if you bend it.
I need to switch to a expansion system this week and want to deliver the best product on the market for my clients. Price makes no difference, high quality is my goal. Can you guys please help me understand what system will be the best over time and highest quality for my clients. Thanks
@@jeremygallimore3042 I have no hands-on experience w/Zurn PexB. We’ve had local supplier come to job site to demonstrate the Zurn product but that’s extent of my experience.
I can say the Zurn is much less stiff than most PexB, though in truth my guys haven’t used any PexB is 5+ years. We’ve been using Uponor for all domestic water plumbing and Rehau O2 barrier in all hydronic heat applications. I am not a chemical engineer but I suspect Zurn chemists have developed a moisture curing (Pex B crosslinking method) method that results in higher crosslinking. The primary difference in Pex A & Pex B is crosslinking %; Pex A is min 80%, Pex B 60%.
While we commonly use Zurn pressure regulators and back flow valves, my guys chose to not use the Zurn Pex. While it’s more flexible than most PexB, it’s is definitely stiffer than Uponor thus installing through stud bays will be more laborious. With identical ASTM test ratings, and similar fitting costs, installation labor becomes the primary deciding factor. Uponor wins that factor hands down. I would say in your case product availability should be verified. If Uponor is readily available, that’s the best choice. There are however other PexA offerings with much different ASTM ratings. For example if you have high Cl content in your water supply, I’d suggest Zurn PexB over Apollo or Rehau non-barrier Pex A.
@Kenneth & Bia PEX has been extensively tested and every verified lab test I’ve seen it’s inert. There should be zero chemical leeching when used in domestic water plumbing applications.
Compared to Cu, lab testing results indicate much less contamination though w/elimination of Pb solder in domestic water applications, the primary leeching found in Cu plumbing is Cuprous Oxide , Copper Peroxide and Copper 3 Oxide. None of these compounds are considered harmful to humans in the extreme low concentrations found in Cu plumbed systems.
With Pex, be it Pex-A or Pex-B, I would be more concerned with material degradation than chemical leeching. No Pex should ever be left to UV exposure exceeding 90 days. Even during rough plumbing, it’s scheduled to limit UV exposure to as minimal as possible. I would also recommend evaluating each vendor offering prior to purchase and install for CL reactive rating, particularly if using well or private watering sources. Most municipal water systems have very low, 4 ppm is allowable limits but 1-1.5 ppm is commonly found in testing, CL content. Well and private systems will vary quite substantially, often nearing or even exceeding that 4ppm allowable limit. Refer to the Pex manufacturers ASTM F2023 results for CL resistance. This testing protocol is at 140F, far exceeding the 120-125F commonly found in residential applications. It is however a test for long term exposure of 4ppm CL water at 140F. A ‘1’represents passing grade at 6 hrs/day, a ‘3’ is 12 hr/day exposure and a ‘5’ is a 24 hr/day passing grade. A 1 is acceptable in most residential applications where recirc system is not employed. A 3 is recommended in non-recirc systems involving well or private water systems w/possible high concentrations of CL. A ‘5’ would be required in applications involving a recirc system, particularly if CL levels exceed 2 ppm in testing.
In applications that are deemed ‘non-serviceable’ such as garage concrete slabs, we always install and recommend to client they maintain system using distilled water and a surfactant or propylene glycol additive which would result in zero CL content.
Thanks for the video, what do you think about the Home Depot stuff, they call it Apollo? Can you use the same fitting on all three, basically are fittings interchangeable on say 3/4" in pipe, and also the expansion bands?
Good video. I appreciate all of his knowledge and experience. I have watched the video probably 3 to 4 times and continue to get information from it on each viewing. Thanks Joe.
So which one is he recommending? Uponor or Zurn? He keeps on referring to both as “this pipe”.
You bring up an interesting perspective, my inquiry is about the Pex A was designed to work with the expansion system and to continually seek its original shape which means that it is always tightening onto the fitting. whereas pex B was designed to be crimped. How well does the pex b work in the function that it was not designed for?
I am not a pro plumber but will be building my own home this summer and was set on using pex A for the areas that I will not be using copper - the hot water water lines. However, I am always seeking for the best methods.
Pex B is designed for it, with certain brands.
You're correct that type A was designed for it from the get go, PEX type B on the other hand it was something of an after thought.
However the main clamping power is coming from the, for lack of a better term, type A style ring that you're putting on the connection.
And that is regardless of type A or B.
So pretty much if you are using the preformed 90 degree sweeps that you buy from HD or Lowes or plumbing supply house then there's not a significant difference because those turn assist holders are designed to work with every type of PEX without kinking.
Which sort of mutes the point of type A being more flexible.
When following plumbing code all of the PEX pipes follow the same rules for how often they must be clamped/supported and what pex is or isn't allowed to come into contact with.
At the end of all that, the flexibility of Type A does make it slightly easier to run, however as a professional plumber who installs this stuff multiple times each week, I feel more confident installing type B, regardless of crimping or expanding.
That's with knowing the pros and cons list.
@@lightjedi6 Thank You for your explanation, do you use mostly crimping or expanding when using pex B? cheers
@@TOMTOM-nh3nl I choose to repeat whatever has already been used, to match the style of whatever has already been installed.
If there's no other PEX installed then it's a horse a piece. I try not to go to the store for a particular job unless it's a big re pipe, so at times it is simply based on what I've got the correct parts in my van for.
@@TOMTOM-nh3nl my exception would be the copper crimp rings, when I say crimp I actually refer to the stainless steel pinch clamps.
I find accessibility to be an issue with the copper crimp tools, thus I avoid them. Not that there's an issue with the copper crimp rings as a system, heck I can crimp them in a jiffy with my m12 propress.
What are your thoughts about the PEX A having the ability to “heat” a kink out of the pipe.? Can this be done with the Zurn PEX B product?
Upnor which is the pex a here leaches chemicals in water where zurn pex b doesn't
Which one again is not recommended for recirculating pump applications?
At 3:10 you say Zurn in their advertising but I think you mean Uponor in their advertising. Please clarify.
Uponor Warranty is 25 years (10 if you use non-uponor fittings). You also get (only) 10 years for uponor manifolds. Also, uponor pex is rated a (5), the same as zurn pex b for hot recirc lines (24 hours a day).
Yeah. But the warranty doesn't cover the damage to the house. It only covers the pipe and not the labor to replace the pipe.
@@travisk5589 But that is also the case for Zurn and everyone else
@@gabrielo8922 Yeah but uponor has proven to fail
Are you using Uponor fittings for both pex b and pex a?
I was told by pretty much every plumbing supply that expansion can't be used on PEX-B. Is there a reason they would all say this? It's even in some of the manuals.
Nope they are right,All pex b can’t except this zurn brand
@@mariosifuentes5994 Thank you! I've been trying to figure that out.
very informative, thanks for clearing up the differences, contracts don't tell you this they want to keep you in the dark and you've clearly made this video so you can understand the differences even if you not in the industry!!! thank you - great video and great explanation!!!!
Is the inside diameter of the 1/2" Uponor Pex-A the same as 1/2" copper?
nope, all pex is smaller inside than copper, the outside diameter is the same.
This could have been a very good video, but which pipe is which. There are mostly just references to "this pipe" and "this pipe" and "this pipe" without identifying which is which. I quit watching at about 5:25 when he starts referring to 1 of the pipe (you know, the blue one) as Uponor PEX-B. Wasn't the video about Uponor PEX-A?
Joe: if you used RED for the Uponor pex A and BLUE for the ZURN pex B it would have been easier for me to follow your comparison between the two pex types. OR write the NAME of the pex on the side of the piping for reference. Thank you! And the BORN on date is great to know!!
I will do that. The Born on date is required by law and Uponor does not Comply in my opinion.
great video thanks for all the professional details. quick question does the Zurn PEX- B have the same turn radius and kinks free or reheat to get a kink out like Uponor?
No, no it does not.
That's perhaps the biggest downside to any PEX-B.
However, if you're using the turn assist fittings that are readily available at just about every plumbing related store then those will clip onto any type of PEX (a, b, or c) and provide the perfect kink free turn radius.
Can you use PEX A fittings and rings on PEX B pipe and vice versa?
This guy is so confused and wrong. But to answer your question, you can use pex b fitting on a or b pex, you can only use pex a fittings on pex a. By the way, pex b does not expand, only pex a!
so pex-a and pex-b can be used with expansion fittings? i just got an expansion tool and have only heard that only pex-a can be expanded because its softer and will shrink back better
Exactly I've heard the same thing.
Experiment on your own my Pex B split when expanded and Does NOT Fully shrink back to original size.
This guy is wrong in so many things he says. ONLY PEX A can be expanded!
i didnt realize pex a and b can use the same expansion connection rings. i thought you can only use copper crimp and stainless crimp rings on pex b.
Only some pex b can be expanded. It has to be F1960 rated for expansion. If it doesn't have that rating, then you can only use a crimp type.
Pex b gets copper crimp rings or stainless steel pinch clamps which im personally a fan or the copper rings
Thanks for setting it straight.Have hurd the same thing.
How about the Apollo pex pipes? Home Depot, Lowe’s mostly have Apollo pipes especially in 1/2 and 3/4 inch
Your video was extremely informative the demonstrations that you gave made it very understandable how the systems work.
Can Zurn Pex B pipe, Collars and various fittings be bought at Home Depot or Lowes? I have just recently bought the Milwaukee M12 Tool that you are using, (with the 3 different sized heads), and would want to go with the product that lasts the longest, as who wants to re-do all the Pex pipe in a house after 10, or even 25 years later?!? Not me, that’s for sure!
I had to watch other videos to find out that ZURN is an exception to PEX B in that all other PEX B installs differently with restrictive fittings. I don't understand what qualifies the Zurn or any pex as Pex A or Pex B.
When did they change it on pex b where you can do expansion? I've read many places where they say pex b shouldn't be expanded to make connections.
My understanding from the video is that the Zurn Pex B is the only Pex B that can be expanded. The others need to be attached with crimp fittings.
Potentially a very useful video, thx, but from your discussion and switching of pipes between left and right hands, and which pipe you shake while talking, it's not clear to me, as a viewer, which is best for what. Is Zurn only in your right or left hand?
Zurn PEX-B is left hand but he referred to it as PEX-A. So yeah, confusing.
Ok, thanks for the reply, I'm not the only slightly confused one...
Thanks for this very important information. I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else.
Do you have to use the Zurn expander heads with Zurn Pex B or can you use the heads that come with the tool? The expander tools are already quite pricey ... if you have to buy new heads to use Zurn Pex B, that would suck.
In the video toward the end he explained that you can use either expander heads on the expander tool and they both work for both Pex A and Zurn Pex B.
But what type of connection are you using for the pex b ? Is it still the uponor or are you using pex fittings?
Thanks Joe for explaining the issues with type A you changed my mind to good with type B instead keep putting out the good informative videos. Thanks
Thank you for educating me. I am absolutely terrified now! Last year I lost my home to a tornado, my family survived thank God. However, we are rebuilding. I was planning on Uponor, but now through your videos I need to go with Zurn. But even Zurn seems to be a problem in your book. My question, if you were building your own house, what would you put in for plumbing? As you said all this is very old technology and the plumbing manufactures have done little or nothing to improve it. I have also learned that I need to make sure the installing contractor aware of the cold weather. I am in TN but my house build should start next week. Thank you again for your videos. They sure are valuable knowledge.
I am confused same as u, i saw his video saying Uponor A keeps failing and there is lawsuit against Uponor and here in this video he is saying Uponor is better than other pipe which is zurn pex A. I planning to build a house so just looking what should i use.
@@matijaivankovic2946 Joe sometimes transposes Zurn for Uponor and vice versa. His basic message is that Zurn B is a superior product than Uponor A. He admits the Uponor is more flexible and has a tighter turning radius and is easier to install, but he believes those aren't worth the tradeoff of what seems to be a shorter life than Zurn B.
@@ohger1 "Joe sometimes transposes Zurn for Uponor and vice versa." That's a major problem in a video where he's trying to differentiate the two products.
@@Shoop83 I don't disagree with that..
Maybe i missed it, can you interchange fittings between the two pipes?
Good question, I would like to know this as well
yes
I don't think they are interchangeable given what he says at 12:34
pex a fitting can only be used on pex a. pex b fitting can be used on pex a or b! And yes, if you use pex b fittings on pex a, you crimp it with the same pex b crimp rings!
No manufacturer will honor the 25 year warranty unless you use their fittings. If you mix and match the warranty can decrease to 10 years for some manufacturers and even to 1 year for others. Always use it as a complete system for the warranty to stay intact.
Is there another Pex B brand that you recommend? Is apollo pex at home depot ok?
What's your thoughts on Box Pex or Super Pex? In the thoughts to prevent rodents from chewing pipe
What about freezing temperatures which would not burst? In a summer house.?
I feel like I'm watching a game of 3 card monty. I have no idea if he is talking about A or B when he says "this pipe".
Is all zurn pex expansion rated? My whole house is zurn pex and I only see f876/877 markings in my obstructed view....
I thought you can not use PEX-B for expansion but only crmip method, please explain?
How are you able to expand pex B? I thought you can't use expansion fittings on Pex B. You should also consider using PTC fittings like Quickfitting. Quickfitting has a 70 year warranty on their ptc fittings and they take a lot less time to install and they are not as expensive as Sharkbite.
I install all my own plumbing, I don’t hire it done,so I went with the SS pinch rings, cheaper tools and if I ever have to remove just pull tab with plyers
I have a question. Bought an 8 year old home with Uponor pex a. Six months later got a leak mid-pipe near the water heater. Repaired it and then later discovered all the problems with the older Uponor pipe that's white inside and red outside. My red pipe is red all the way through. Asked Uponor about the problem and they wanted me to send them the bad piece for analysis. Unfortunately I had thrown it away. Is the newer Uponor red all the way through pipe still failing?
From what I heard yes it's something to do with the coloring process making it weaker
Uponor is also made in America. We have factorys here in Minnesota. Their R&D facility is here too.
Anyone use Pex A on water circ system feeding a radiant heat system? Planned on using Uponor to connect manifold to boiler but now not sure what to do.
I use Uponor HEPEX for hot water heating.
Great vid and I need to have my home re-piped, btu all the plumbers doing Pex-B are using non-expansion crimp with fittings that reduce the inner diameter water flow. Wish I could find a plumber here that will do what you are showing.
I'm seeing in my area that plumbers are using the non-expansion crimp fittings. In fact, this very day a plumber came to my place of work to move a water heater. I asked him about the expansion fittings and tools, and he said he had never heard of them and that the local supply houses don't have them. This guy's been a plumber for decades. I prefer the expansion fittings because they don't restrict water flow (like you mentioned) and I think it's a better connection; seems less prone to fail than methods using metal rings.
I thought PLEX B required crimping?
Never mind...
what about being able to fix the kinks with a heat gun. pex b you would have to use a coupler right?
Burst pressure is the same. From zurn website.
Do you use strictly zurn fittings ?
I am about to do a repipe for one of my houses and been watching your video’s and after watching your video’s I decided to use zern. The home is on a well system is there anything to worry about with it being a well?
You have less chance of the calcification problem that you would have on a municipal system.
How does it stand to Rats?
That's a big concern in Florida.
For some reason, I thought you couldn’t
Spand pex type B ?
What do you think of this?
So which is which? Is Pex A the blue pipe or the blue pipe?
Most of our pipes in Norway are 10-15mm on the inside, but then again, we have 5.5bar pressure (4-10bar in the streets)
I've asked this for years, Ferguson has always preached Class A was better pipe and the local supply house here in Middle TN has sold Zurn Class B pipe though only selling the crimp fittings, I had a few leaks with the zurn crimps 6 years ago and having only used the more expensive uponor piping, Assuming you can use the uponor expander heads on the Zurn pipe without buying another head or tool? Local supplier also said Ferguson owned a manufacturing facility of the product?
There is No Such Thing as Class A. A is an extrusion method. B is an Extrusion Method. C is an extrusion method. My goal #1 is to try and help plumbers and homeowners understand best practices in potable water pipes for all homeowners. My goal #2 is to inspire pipe manufactures to build a better product. technology is not moving forward fast enough in the potable water pipe industry. I will do another video on Uponor Expander Heads Are Approved for the Zurn Pex B Pipe . You Do Not Need To Buy Another Tool. Ferguson Spain manufactured pipe in not something I would ever install in a home.
I am now more confused. I thought Type A is expansion and Type B was slip in fittings with a crimp ring? That’s the way the big box stores label them.
Can you install pex A pipe with coupling with any pex male or female adaptor sell at Home Depot or Lowe’s ? Or Pex A coupling has to go with special pex A male or female adaptor ?
PEX B pipes are more harder than PEX A ones, but siloxane cross linked PEX B pipes are more stable against high temperature and oxygen destruction I think !
интересно
@@walterbrunswick In addition, these pipes become even harder over time, because under the influence of external factors, the crosslinking of their molecules continues.
@@Drillmechanic after reading the comments Idk wtf to think 🤕
@@Drillmechanic All plastic pipes harden over time, the cpvc I installed 20 years ago is so brittle it's like glass.
@@stevem1081 Yes all plastics harden over time but at different speed and at different external and internal factors (radiation, oxygenation, temperature, PH...)
Have Uponor PEX-A a lot and just found out have Zurn PEX-B expansion Pex-B; so, can I use Zurn PEX-B with Uponor PEX-A and vice versa in a Res house? Or can I not mix products at all?
Thx for this and glad clicked on this vid.
Cheers✌🏻
Maybe I am missing something when you use the expansion tool I have been told the head needs to rotate after each time it opens I am not seeing that in the video, also has pex B always had the expansion properties or is that something new thank you for your information
The m12 and M18 and DeWalt and rls and all other battery powered pex expansion tools rotate slightly at each expansion. That’s why Milwaukee instructions on their tools recommend up to 7 expansions before releasing the tool from the pipe. It balanaces the expansion process on the full diameter of the pipe before inserting the fitting.
Does Pex B have the same expansion properties as Pex A
I'm confused. I just watched a video from another plumbing channel saying Pex A uses the expansion tool and Pex B uses a crimp tool with an insert that reduces the flow. Now this guy is saying they both use the same fittings and the same expansion tool.
What makes you positive that your repipers will be the one installing the pipe
I saw a video you did comparing type a to type b Pex. You explained why you liked type a better because of the why the pipe is fitted to the fittings, also how the od of the fitting was the same as the pipe. I am getting ready to install type b because it is cheaper but having a restriction in water flow at every connection concerned me. I was sure I didn't want to redo it later and didn't know how to avoid it using type b because I have budget issues. I watched this video and because you explained that both types can be installed the same way using expansion, you solved my problem. Thank you Joe, I appreciate your honesty. I have another question: can crimp rings be used on the f fittings for type a?
But do you need the stronger stuff? What would be good to know is up north side by side comparison in the frozen MN winter. I'd like to be shown why you need the bigger thicker tubing. Put water in it and freeze them both and lets see the comparison. Yes i get it of course. But if you lived in Texas do you need the stronger stuff, it isn't gonna freeze. Not knocking your video just want to know why i would need the stronger one besides the fact its stronger. What is my situation where I need 1000psi vs 450psi bursting resistance. City water 60psi, all house fixtures under 10psi, solder joint on copper is about 440psi. Cheap type M copper tubing 6,000psi. A soldered coupling bursting pressure vs PexA/B coupling bursting pressure. These are the important questions. Its not stronger than copper pipe, might be lighter and easier to install but doesn't mean its actually better. Its better is used too loosely. I just gave you the motive for your next video. I use PexA, copper, sharkbites, whatever the situation calls for, I'm sure you do too. Plus those stupid plastic and brass pex fittings rattle around together and nick the barbs and cause leaks that don't show up for a few days. Thats not cool. You practically need a fresh bag of fittings for every job. By the way, I like your video's. Once again I am NOT barking ay you or your videos, they are great.
Most of our videos are focused for the water conditions in California. California needs a pipe that has a high tolerance for chloramines. The chemical reaction with high chloramine content in California is causing pin hole/slab leaks in copper and fractures in PEX-A. In future videos we with clarify more and focus more on our area of services.
You say it’s not going to freeze in Texas....well surprise 🥶
Can you use uponor fittings and rings on zurn pex b
I don't understand you said, don't ever use PEX A on a recirculation system. I thought Upenor A was what you are supposed to use. I am confused.
My understanding pex b can not be used with the expansion rings
So what's better ?
If you would have only taken a Sharpie and written the letters A & B on the two different pipes...
Sometimes you call it type A, but then you call it Upunor, then THIS one and THAT one, but because you sometimes hold Type A in your right hand and Type B in your left and sometimes you hold it in the opposite hand. I rewatched the video like eight times because you made it so confusing, why didn't you use two different color pipes? You are the ONLY one that says Type A cannot be used to recirculate, the only one.... I understand the release of chemicals and the breakdown of the material, but you make it seem like you can only use type B for recirculation. When in fact you should have simply said "Make sure the pex you choose is recirculation rated...
You seemed like you were the guy, but you sent me on a wild goose chase.
Yep. Very confusing.
So what's the difference between zurn Pex B and other brand pex B?
You said erroneously that Zurn says in its marketing that it is softer, didn't you mean Uponor? 3:08-3:13 in the video.
Few questions. So as not to confuse the issue I will refer to Zurn pex as Zurn and any other B pex as PEX B. Can Zurn be heated to remove a kink? Is Zurn UV stabilized and if so for how long? Does Zurn come with an oxygen barrier for ferrous heating systems? B pex was never really an option for hydronic heating systems because of the pressure drop caused by the fittings.
Can Zurn be heated to remove a kink? You should never heat PEX to remove kinks.
Is Zurn UV stabilized and if so for how long? Zurn PEX has a 6 month UV resistant's.
Does Zurn come with an oxygen barrier for ferrous heating systems? I would contact Zurn, we only focus on potable water systems.
Pex A can be heated to remove a kink.
Can one use uponor fittings on Zurn Pex-B pipe? Homeowner asking. Uponor has more fittings available. I am repiping my home a little at a time and have used Uponor thus far and have lots of Uponor fitting on hand.
You can use Uponor fittings with Zurn PEX but you will run into warranty issues if something fails.
@@JoeLudlow Thanks, for the reply. I was thinking it had to be installed by a professional plumber for the warranty. It's not a big or expensive house either.
Use pex A for the best connections
You said Zurn's marketing is that its pipe is softer, but did you mean Uponor?
at my plumbing shop we use pex b however we use crimp rings with a hand held crimp tool. not a giant pro press tool like you showed in the video.... the fittings do create a flow restriction though.
Please under stand. I removed plastic pipe (Polybutylene) in 32,000 homes under Cox V Shell class action. those homes all used copper crimp rings and the big press tool did not exist at that time. The small copper crimp tool is the best tool just stay away from yellow brass fittings and keep the tool calibrated at all times. Copper crimp are to stronger for yellow brass fittings. That said a properly installed copper crimp ring with good plastic fittings rarely fail. hope that helps.
Wow thanks, I didn't know about such a different PEX-B. Still, PEX-A can bend more w/o kink, and that's way more critical for me than the bursting pressures that are already "insanely" high anyway.
Agreed. If "PEX Z" had a 3,000 psi bursting pressure, who would care?
I do have hot recirc lines put in, however, so this video was very interesting.
@@stipcrane Uponor red and blue pex A pipes have been recalled because of failures nation wide ( 2 months ago) because the pipe is only lasting 7 years then hundreds of small fractures show up and leak. How could you not know that? Do not worry. I am building a new web site that will bring the world up to speed on what is really happening. Remember I spend $5,000.00 to $15,000.00 a day on pex pipe since 1993. So you and I are from two different universes. The new website will help the public I prommiss.
Uponor pex A Red and Blue pipes have been recalled and will never be sold again any where, ever. Uponor Pex A has been failing after 7 years nation wide. Pex A and pex B have the same (required bend radius) but with Uponor failing after 7 years and Zurn not failing you may be able to understand why I spend my $ 5,000.00 to $15,000.00 a day on the pipe that does not fail.
If you fix the Uponor Pex pipe kink with a heat gun you void the Uponor warranty. All Kinks have to be cut out on any type of pipe CPVC or copper or Pex, or you are in violation of every plumbing code on earth. Using a heat gun permanently damages the pipe but to Uponor shame they do not disclose this fact so you find out after you claim is denied. Uponor Pex A Red and Blue pipes where recalled because of failures nation wide. 7 years then fail Uponor Pex A.
@@JoeLudlow Wrong, bend radius of PEX-B is 8xOD and Uponor PEX-A is 6xOD.
You're the only one I've seen that uses expansion fittings on a pex B
Are you sure about that?
I don’t know why he is doing this trying to confuse people.
“PEX B is not expandable and you should never expand the end of a PEX-B pipe. Kink-Resistance - PEX-A has the greatest resistance, PEX-B the lowest. You should never install kinked pipe.”
@hcaz revaew Correct sir
“PEX B is not expandable" Is incorrect please look into Zurn Pex-B Expansion pipe
@@IntegrityRepipeInc This video is very confusing if you are new to all of this, I'm not, and know what you are attempting to convey... You really need to remake this video... And as far as Zurn, can't find it anywhere.
Getting ideas on products to re-pipe my polybutelene equipped home from 1994 and the Zurn sounds good. That is until I see lawsuits from leaks and wonder what the heck is going on with this. Are their claims valid or is this slander from Uponor or other PEX mfgs?
1994? Wow, you just missed the point where the couldn't install it any longer. My home was built in 1991 and it is infested with PolyB. It's kept me up at night.
@@IceAgeSquirrel2008 My 1994 home is fully of polybutylene, too. I’m planning on a full re-pipe next summer but my finances dictate that it has to be a DIY job. I’m not looking forward to it but I really don’t like living with the constant worry of something bursting.
@@TheMamamarieke I understand. I would rather learn and make a few mistakes on m own than spend thousands and thousands for a plumber. And contractors never really care as much as I do about the job.
@@IceAgeSquirrel2008 don't group all contractors into one type!! (I'm OCD perfectionist)
@@walterbrunswick You make a good point and I will endeavor to persevere! Thank you!
Why not just use all white pexA pipe?
Listen to the video again,it doesn't matter if it is red ,white, or blue,or even the semi clear pipe . it's the extrusion process that makes the difference. Color makes absolutely no difference.none of my supplier sell Zurn pex b,so I can't compare the two pipes that said I saw in a earlier thread that Sioux Chief makes pex b suitable for cold expansion.That is available at Menards.I can definitely see the color difference between those two pipes.
Very interesting, and helpful as I am about to repipe my home.
Wonderful!
So when you repipe do they run water lines through the attic?
@@joelajr Probably. Won't have to rip out all the drywall.
What about expansion fittings - vs crimp , can you use expansion pipe collars on crimp fittings ?
Only if you don't mind the fittings coming apart as soon as you apply pressure.
Sir you are spot on ,I don't believe that you are a shill for Zurn, Locally my supplier does not sell Zurn pex b,in fact where I live in So Il after the pandemic we are thrilled with any material we can get in a timely manner . My question for you is this ,I saw someone say in the comments made the statement that Sioux Chief makes pex suitable for expansion,but he did not state if it was pex b or pex a.very informative vid thanks
Notice how does not show the inside diameter of the Zurn fitting. The Upanour inside fitting dia. Is the same as the the pipe ‘s inside diameter. This is why it must be expanded to fit . Thus, with the Upanour Pex A there is NO flow restriction!
The audio level on this video is very low and it sounds heavily filtered, almost as though it was recorded through an old landline phone.
Can you address any leaching from these pipes?
What is your opinion on Legend Pex? They claim a 100 year warranty.