I found another point that was very helpful from Henry Cloud’s book on Safe People. Safe people don’t talk one-up to you but treat you as equals. I have also found a true indicator is to test whether that person allows you to have your own preferences, or if they need you to adhere to their choices/opinions.
This (being ok with others having their own preferences) seems like a no brainer. But it was so ingrained into me since childhood that it took me well into my 60s to see how abnormal my family system was. Continuing to insist I must like the same music, TV shows etc as they do. When I finally moved physically to place where I felt joy and peace I was bombarded with “concern”. I’ve gone NC (without anger or malice) and things are FINALLY becoming clear. The peace is incredible.
Not all the time. Sometimes narcs are extremely interested in you, not because they care but because they're studying you, learning what makes you tick so they can plan their lives in yours
abbas joy- exactly. some of the comments on here portray narcissists in one way. the fact is- prayer is the key and discernment to know what’s safe and what’s not
Yes, sometimes they listen for ways to trap you later on. Genuine people don't act like this. Usually though you can tell what they are about after a few interactions.
As a child the only way I could get a moment’s peace was to isolate because my parents expected to see you moving and being productive at all times. They demanded obedience and compliance. The impact into adulthood is not being able to rest, and not knowing what my needs are. It’s devastating.
same, but now i spoil myself. i say, if i had a husband who tduly loved me, would he let me do, buy, etc for myself. of course its always yes:) it helps to use to give yourself permission
Correct. Because we not love ourself. We learned to love the others in a distorted way. With meditation we can heal. Taking out time and deeply breath.. In the most lovely surrounding we can built for us. Like a nest. This is when my soil starts rising.
Same, but I eventually put religion/spirituality in place of the parent. I thought I had moved past the parent issue but took another 30 years to realize my image of God/Source was that of a demanding father that loved me but was never quite happy with my performance. My thought process: "I'm not sure what, but I must be doing SOMETHING very wrong or my life would be better." I basically created a replacement demanding oppressor in my own mind.
Imagine being born around a vortex that slowly, imperceptibly, sucks in your light. Not only is the presence of that drain an injury, but also that that person was supposed to be a source of strength for you, someone you could rely on. Not only do you not have that safe rock to rest on, but every time you try to put your hand down on something solid, it drains you. And you try to grow up, to make friends, to become a human being, to do the demanding business of establishing a life. And then you go out into the world, and you attract the same kind of people. You don't know what it is like to have your light honored by another, but you are starving for it. Even if the people who drain you do so slowly, it is the lack of satisfying relationships that hurts, and over the years turns into starvation and malnutrition. You're an adult, and you've been on this planet 30 years, and there was a whole lot of life and love that wasn't there.
My narcissistic mother doesn't want me to solve her problems... if her problems were solved, she'd only have to find new ones to keep clamoring about. She just enjoyed watching me TRY to solve her problems. It was the attention and sympathy she was after, not the actual solving of actual, real problems. She had no problems except the ones she created in order to have something to wail about.
Well and more freedom to be authentic, not having to mask so much. That's what I look forward to in my future safe relationships, what must it be like to feel completely yourself and feel accepted by those around me. What we all wish for
I really don't think it's true that safe people are super happy, nor is it true that they have no negativity, no complaining, no criticising... In many many situations (consider, when you are the victim of narcissistic abuse) it is appropriate to not enjoy it, to see it negatively, to complain about it, to criticise the abusers.
As a child of two narcissistic parents, a shoutout to my gorgeous adult life friends who check all the boxes in safe relationships. I'm eternally grateful, thank you all.
I'm 58 years old. My father, older sister and exhusband are narcissists. Putting myself first makes me feel very vulnerable and like I'm walking into a trap. The only way I feel safe to do that is by living in isolation.
I'm 43 and it's the same for me. My father, younger sister, and ex-wife are narcissists. I've been living in isolation for the first time for about 2 years now. Ironically during that time, I'm finding a kind of focus that I've rarely been able to maintain because of other people always being around. I'm able to concentrate on myself and what I need to do in my life without feeling guilt or shame, or worry or doubt or fear. I also - as you say - feel "safe" in a way I cannot ignore. I realize it's the first time, in many ways, that I've ever felt this feeling of simply being able to exist without some threat, punishment, criticism or pressure. In an ideal world, I would be able to share life with someone, but I also am seeing how safe I feel in isolation and how productive it has been for me, and it crosses my mind at times, that now that I've found this, I don't know that I'm willing to run of the risk of sacrificing or jeopardizing it for anyone.
@@ets5697 Your description 'I feel safe in a way I can't ignore'. Is perfect. I know what you mean. I resent it when I have to engage with people in person. 'Safe' people seem to be a rarity and at this point in my life I'm not willing to give up the space I feel good in to seek them out.
Same - living in private isolation is ironically the ONLY way us survivors can live like a normal human being. It's hard to overcome distrust of others and find safe ppl when you escape in yr 40s and 50s
I'm 58 and I never had a safe person in my entire childhood. Right now I am living in isolation, doing IFS therapy on my own and finally connecting to my inner child parts that are so traumatized. I'll connect with myself first.
Than you are in their game. If that happens the focus is on trying to please others, if we not feel competent about ourselves we not talk at all. So we isolte. The key is to notice the dussapearance of joy in us. Look out for what makes us happy and give it to us. Stop looking to find something worthy to give the other. So wrong. Life and do what you like 100 pro!
You can voice your opinion comfortably knowing they won't agree with you but won't get offended. With safe people their is solution oriented discussion. They are self development focussed so no bitching or talking about other's.
I gave up on having a good relationship with my two narcissistic parents. My role as the loser scapegoat was iron clad so I was wasting my time and energy. Now I am more discerning and choose to enjoy being with safe pleasant people. They ARE out there! I still experience some anxiety about what new friends think or if I am not fulfilling their expectations but happily this anxiety is being confirmed as unnecessary.
It's so nice to read your positive comment. At some point we have to realize that by self-isolating and withdrawing from everything, the only people we're hurting are ourselves. Bessel Van Der Kolk, who, among others, says it's impossible to heal on our own and that it's only by finding connection with ourselves can we release the trauma.
True. The way I came to understand it is that narcissists have extreme fear of abandonment and disapproval. So, before someone else makes those fears come true, they blame that someone of the same things so that the other person would feel guilty, try to correct themselves, not blame this person, and not leave this person because they're not the one who's wrong. The problem is, narcissists have internalized this coping mechanism so much that they actually believe it's always the other person's fault if they become emotionally dysregulated and it's always the other person's responsibility to provide them with emotional regulation. So, they are usually quite opposed to become emotionally self-aware enough to realize what's happening because that would mean they would have to face those dreaded feelings of guilt, shame and disgust with themselves for being who they are, which is the first step to overcoming those fears of abandonment and disapproval, which will lead to them actually empathizing with others and have healthy relationships.
1 very import NG marker of safe people is, that they always stand on your side. They can dedect immediately your hurt and injustice behavior of others towards you. They give you a hug, and offer their help as you need it. They are sensitive to your individual desires.
Jay, thank you for this excellent video! After reading the comments, I realize that so many of us are choosing isolation instead of exploring new realtionships. Some have lost decades of life to merely surviving narcissistic relationships and are now grieving that deeply. In an attempt to live fully and make the most of every bit of life remaining, we are not willing to gamble with our time. Isolation feels extremely safe. Although we know connection is important, we don't have the physical or emotional energy to risk it. Thank you for this information! It feels like I have guidance on how to begin. Many blessings to you and to everyone walking this path.
You summed up my feelings perfectly. I grew up with an alcoholic father, narc mother and had a narc husband for fifteen years. I'm exhausted. I don't have the energy to meet new people and pray the cycle of abuse doesn't start all over again. The only safe zone is alone. I have a dog and that helps. I just wake up every day and try to make the best of things.
I’m pretty extroverted… But my mirror relationship is so stressful and at times toxic- it is improving but the damage has been significant. I dont have the social energy sometimes to go do stuff cuz the toll my difficult marriage has had on me. Plus my hubby isolates and usually has close friends that validates him rather than challenges him and he doesnt like that in me… He wants to feel “comfortable”. I have learned while relaxation is important- lassie faire and laziness breeds bad things. We can rest and be content while growing and learning to be better. We can also be friends with people who are good for us and are safe but also challenge us in good, healthy ways to be better
Maybe because being alone feels freeing to be oneself and one enjoys a rich interior life whereas being with others is what causes the feelings of isolation.
I have yet to find healthy people. There's a TON of people with very high narcissistic traits out here in the wild, and I'm finding it pointless to even go out anymore... .. Speaking about being social, and finding new, healthy friends. There needs to be a support group, with healthy people paired with us survivors, with the healthy people being vetted. I'm the scapegoat, only child, and had this belief even further cemented, due to my religious family...it was always about everyone else, except me. The more I served, the more praise I got, and my narcissist parents (both were), left me alone...but that was always short lived. Now, I'm happy my family estranged me in teenage years, and have been on my own ever since, and I'm 51. ❤
@ArtemisSilverBow I beg to differ. One cannot associate socially with their therapist. A safe person can just be someone to have fun with & not feel threatened by. They play very different roles, imo.
I'm not sure healthy people would actively choose to be judged and then have to baby a damaged individual until that individual could take charge of themselves again. Talk about a ball and chain. No that is not acceptable to a healthy person.
Oh my God I never noticed I did this until you pointed this out. A lot of us are so conditioned to think there's something really bad/wrong with us, because of the people that were supposed to love and care for us. Sometimes it feels like a curse, a death sentence at birth that one is supposed to carry out, and often I've blamed myself because why on Earth would someone do something so horrible to another human being, the same as they are? It's baffling.
Beautiful harp. Also a survivor of abuse, and your comment just caught my eye because of the harp in your pic. I’ve been binging harp content here on TH-cam (it’s been a dream since childhood to play one), I will give your channel a listen 😊
It doesn't matter if they like it. That question is such a scapegoat one. No offense. I know thus deeply ingrained fear of saying something wrong. Don't gibmve a f* what others think
The biggest green flag in a relationship is the ability to be accountable and apologize genuinely. I'm through with allowing myself to be treated like crap because my parents decided I wasn't worth care and consideration.
@@neuroqueercoach I have lived the opposite. Grew up in a storybook with an epic childhood and fantastic loving stable parents. Then I married someone completely dysfunctional. And yes zero care and consideration, the degree of selfishness is so significant I can’t even truly comprehend how a grown human could be that oblivious to others needs and also totally fail to do almost anything for anyone besides themselves. And yes he does NOT do accountability, holding himself accountable for his behavior is extremely rare.
@@lijohnyoutube101 oof, yeah if you don't see it coming, that can wreck your whole world. I hope you're getting the support you deserve. I can suggest some youtubers to help if you've interest.
As a scapegoat, I was the person least capable of filling my parents up. Every other person had a bit of value to them in some way, but I had nothing acceptable to offer. So, I fulfilled their needs in that way, by being the designated loser.
Maybe, but even if that's true you became that way on their watch or as a result of inheriting their genetic material. It's more likely what you had to offer threatened to either expose or outshine them. One doesn't need to designate a loser (undermine competence) if he can find some way to take credit for it behind the child's back.
❤️❤️❤️ sending you love ❤️ what a lie, remember they can’t really see you. They can only see what plays in their own mind. I hope you’re finding kindness and love for yourself. Through that a sense of who you are, and your inherent worth. I believe we are all made beautiful and miraculous beings. Don’t play their fake role for you!
I experienced this too but you are not a loser in truth. This is their own projection of themselves onto you.. ThEY are mentally defective and immature losers
@@dreamscape405I’m sorry that you also have experienced this. It is undeserved, and I hope you know that you are more deserving of compassion than you were led to believe.
For me, a healthy, safe person expresses curiosity when there is conflict or something they don’t expect. They express a genuine desire to learn about what they don’t immediately see or think of.
Thank you Jay! I'm adopted, which has made all of this worse. I already wasn't wanted and then the lady who picked me up has been trying to destroy my life ever since. I'm 44. My adoptive father divorced her when i was one...one year after the adoption. I would be unalive if he hadn't been in the picture. He passed in 2007 and as you can imagine, i became even better prey for her because i lost my safe person. I'm finally close to no contact with her. My God, i honestly just thought i couldn't do good enough for these people but at some point, God removed the fog and oh my! Well, i finally stopped drinking and now God is moving mountains. It's kinda scary. I don't trust another human anymore otherwise i would seek professional help. That's why i am extra grateful for you Jay!
I’m sorry you had such a terrible experience (fellow adoptee - a-dad had lots of narc tendencies, was also alcoholic and had the same mental illness that forced my b-mum to give me up as a toddler. They hid all that from the authorities. I’m not going to write much more cos don’t want it turning into a novel, but while they did good things for me too, there was a lot of unnecessary shit and little defence from critical, religion-forcing grandmother, who wasn’t a fan of independent thinking lol).
Love your dog. Was 'raised' by a narc who terrorized dad too. They ultimately kill thru vampirism. Your chan is deeply insightful and healing. TH-cam has become this well of wisdom.
I’m in recovery and the only real friend I’ve found in life is Christ. I feel so bad about myself most days trying to tune out the abusive behavior. I am so scared of being unsafe with people that I isolate myself. I’m grateful for Christ. I wish everyone healing and love.
Stay on this path! My faith in GOD is what has kept me safe in the most miraculous of situations. Putting GOD FIRST you can never go wrong! Stay blessed, safe and prosperous. Jesus WILL get you thru this ✨🙏🕊️✨
I love the list -- you're right that it's just a handful of signs, but they are great ones. I couldn't help noticing that in your fictionalized example, the narcissistic father was a psychologist. I think that the mental health field actually attracts people with narcissistic personality styles. Thanks for being one of the good ones, Jay.
Recently, I heard a couple times, if you pray for patience, you’ll be given situations where you NEED patience. Finally, after hearing it a couple of times, I GOT IT! I want to be around people that patience isn’t needed, everything is already calm. So many of these things I wished I understood DECADES ago. But OK I’m getting it NOW!
I have joined a kendo (martial arts) class and just over a couple of months now, I'm finding that there are some people there who I feel are safe people and who I want to become closer friends with. On the other hand, there are also some clearly unsafe people, and I find myself not needing to look after or tolerate them, I just don't really care about them that much, and definitely don't want to spend more time around them or get closer. I look forward to seeing the safe ones again each week and to talking to them and getting to know them. I think one of the signs of safe people, is that, you tend to feel better about yourself after your interactions with them. Even if you didn't discuss something personal. I think this is because scapegoat survivors have a basic strength and feel good about ourselves, and if we interact with a safe person and can be natural and not have to restrict ourselves or look after the other person, then those natural feelings can come more to the forefront of our conscious experience. By contrast, with an unsafe person you might feel a more unnatural rush during the interaction, but are left feeling more drained, stressed, out of your body, or disoriented, afterwards.
For me, it was stressful to choose myself sometimes in my current relationship because I was expecting him to become mad or withdraw. I have been shocked that he doesn’t. He is understanding, cares about what I think & what I want, and we can disagree about something without it being a big deal at all. Probably the healthiest relationship I’ve ever been in (in 50).
It is correct that narcissistic parents live from the outside in. My parents were superficial and shallow. And, yes, my mother tried to use me as a tool to make her feel good about herself. But I was a kid. I didn't understand what was going on. Yes, my mother thought she owned me.
I am just learning what safe even means. I thought all my friends were safe, but their behavior doesn’t match up with the qualities you describe here and elsewhere. I’m grateful you are listing these traits of safety so now I know what to look for. Better late than never at 51. Even though I am not a narcissist, I grew up with 3 of them and never learned what safe behavior was, so I believe I haven’t been a safe person either. Codependency is not safe, nor is being overly empathetic. I have been forced into isolation due to complex chronic illness and I don’t like it; yet it has given me the needed time to learn as well as develop a new way of relating to myself in safer ways. I have been brutally abusive towards myself - inner critic on steroids! But listening to Jay’s and others videos is helping me become more tolerant and sometimes genuinely compassionate towards myself. I would not have chosen isolation, but I have eked out goodness from it. Hopefully if/when I am better and can meet new people I will have a radar and criteria and be looking for qualities of safety I never previously thought of. If you would have me then that was the only requirement for friendship or relationship because I was so shame based.
just because someone has a lot of friends doesn’t mean their safe- some narcissists like a lot of attention. just be yourself and try to see who you can get along with....
I’m learning that sometimes less is more… It’s harder to maintain a large group of friends and know who’s on your side who isn’t . It’s pretty easy to maintain a few friends , even if they don’t really know each other. You can really see who they are. There’s certain qualities that are needed to have a trusted friend … you are not gonna find that in a large group. Pay attention to larger groups of women: there is always the head chicken who tells everyone else what to do… they love having a large group of women around them for the influence and control. It’s pretty easy to pick that out. The harder time is in smaller groups of women where everyone is pretending to not want to control … you’ll find the women… usually in smaller groups. It’s passive control rather than overt boisterous control in a large group. The smaller group of women will try to convince you to put up with things you shouldn’t and will use their emotions and how they feel through their “heart “ what you should do. Real friends are honest with you in a loving way … they let you know when what you do is hurting them or bothering them. Real friends ask how you are doing… I realize I wasn’t a real friend for a long time because of my own problems and my own hurt… I didn’t care about others like I thought I did. That attracts bad people . Now that I am learning and healing from narcissistic parents and working through my part of what causes issue in my marriage and my husband either ignore or deal with his own issues- I’m not there to rescue him. He’s not here to rescue me… that is individual work. But since I have worked very hard on myself the past several years , I have much better friends and I’ve been to release those who seem unhealthy…. It doesn’t mean people don’t have problems or struggles … friends don’t gossip and destroy you behind your back; they care about you and they want to know how you’re doing but also talk about each other and get to know who you are not just what you are to them. Remember, even bad friends will be there for you if they want to feel good about themselves … can you show up on the doorstep at the moment. Are they there for you when no one else notices? Your friends don’t care about getting credit for things they’re just there and they want you not what you can do for them
I've wondered my whole life, why can I take care of others so well but not myself. The things I could do for others, I found it very difficult when it came to doing it for myself. Turned out that it was a mental block due to childhood programming.
Safe people have a heart felt reaction to connection, it’s non judgemental, mutual, empathetic, often quiet, warm, accepting and soothing. Narcs despite their smooth charming exterior feel jagged, fragmented, not present even when they are looking directly at you. They are brittle with an undercurrent of rage. I can literally feel the scheming expectations going on, energy just doesn’t lie. I’m done automatically believing the best in people, that kind of belief system leads to selection error. I just take people as they come and l never chase. If people treat me badly l consider them untrustworthy the 1st time and they don’t get a 2nd chance. If lm treated well we go to the next level of trust. I find it’s most important to be that safe person for myself. Good boundaries, get rid of guilt and shame, self loving habits, space for what l want and need to do. Basically learning to love and meet my own needs first. Truly 90% of my past relationships were a gross imposition of my time, energy, health, resources and selfhood. NARCS are time wasters, no substance, no-one home just a ravenous empty vessel.
Safe people are open-minded, self-assured, and have an excellent sense of humor. They are always searching for ways to connect which of course means showing respect for other points of view.
I've been very isolated all my life, even when I was with friends. I'm 65 and I've had very little satisfaction in my life. Now I'm in therapy for narcissistic abuse. I'm progressing, the psichiatrist has told me than I'm better than in any other moment of my life and he knows me since i was 22. I had bipolar disorder and recovered but I've been fighting C-PTSD all my live but without results cuz it was not well-known in my country (Spain). I'm very grateful to this channel because it helps me to understand. I'm ASD, too. I found out when I was 60. Life is strange. I wish that I had known safe people earlier in my life but I was feeling so bad! They hurt me so badly since I was a child, mother and father, both narcissistic. My elder sister, too. I know now that being the scapegoat of a narcissistic family and being autistic is a very bad combination. But I survived and here I'm, paying attention to the video in case I may meet safe people.
It took decades and many learning experiences to teach me this, but I am in no way responsible for what others think or how they react. If somebody gets upset over just words, they have a lack of EQ, which isnt taught. I learned to control my thoughts, emotions, and my speech. Others can do the same. Sigma empaths have strong boundaries. Mine came mostly from a narc mom. I now don't regret the past and the abuse. It has all conspired to make me the woman I am today, and I finally like and love myself. Sweet spot!
@user-du7ht7vi5w an empath who has done healing work and learned how to have healthy boundaries / expectations in relationships , essentially ! no longer a doormat , but standing in their power
PS my Dad came for a visit a couple weeks ago. He kept criticizing everything I did. My limit was when I flashed my headlights to let someone go and he said that I was wrong, I should have waived my hand...in my tinted windows car?! Like, FR? Then it was July in FL so I stopped at a gas station to get a drink. I left the AC on and the car running for him because he didn't want to come inside. He flipped out how I was wasting gas. You mean MY gas that I paid for?! I went off on him in the store because I wanted a Slurpee but it wasn't 7-11 so they didn't have the nice nozzles and it sprayed out on the counter. I like to sample several flavors so it made a mess at each one. I cleaned it up immediately though. Anyway, he said this is why I only take from ONE drink at a time, insinuating that using more than one flavor had somehow made a mess (even though I cleaned it up). I went off on him, asking, "Why?! Why do you feel the need to do that?" He looked away irritated and embarrassed and said, "Forget it." I said, "No, let me finish. I was with a woman for 5.5 years who made it VERY clear that nothing I did was good enough. I don't need to be told that I should done this or shouldn't have done that." I don't care who you are, you don't get to pull that garbage. Edit: I don't think Dad's a narc. My ex-wife is but you don't have to be a narcissist to still treat someone poorly.
Thank you Mr. Reid, I feel that for the lucky ones that grew up in healthy homes know all this intuitively but for us with these type of parents it helps to have these written down so that we can look back on, reflect and see where it’s healthy to be at and what to avoid.
I’m neurodivergent & totally thought you meant an actual cup, like they don’t expect people to wait on them. 😂😂😂 especially after seeing the cup in the thumbnail
If a stranger broke into your house and abused your kids, you would get revenge by calling the cops, arresting the abuser, and punishing them with jail time. The public will worship you for your bravery and commitment to getting justice. So explain this to me - if your parents abuse you, and you get revenge, why is that considered "bad."? Why are you gaslit with stuff like "getting revenge just makes things worse for your, learn to let go and forgive." Again let's go back to the strange breaking into your home and abusing your kids. What if I told you "hey Jay, don't call the cops, dont try to get this person thrown in jail, that will just make things worse for you. learn to forgive"
I DO understand you. But I think for me, getting past it to live MY LIFE was important. I like self improvement. I find I don’t have the bandwidth to WASTE on negative people. I’d rather savor my energy and spend it on myself. This way, I’ve made myself my priority, and I do NOT care one whit about what THEY think or do or don’t do. I’m no longer feeding the trolls off my own table. If I could’ve understood this so much earlier in life! Also, don’t take ANYTHING personally. It also took me decades to understand THAT nugget of wisdom too! If you remove yourself from the toxic situation, they will do the same damage to the next person in that slot. This was proven to be true 55 years later! They never change! It is ABSOLUTELY NOT PERSONAL. Your golden child sibling could’ve just as easily been the black sheep. As we’ve already been wounded by this terror, our REACTION to their provocation can be utterly devastating TO US. See? When you can detach, understand that ANY PERSON put into that situation would’ve been abused, ok? Back up, take yourself out of it, and we’re back to the first part, spend your energy coins WISELY: on YOURSELF! I hope this makes sense. It took me WAY TOO LONG to figure it out. I’m not saying condone, but for YOUR OWN SAKE. You don’t get those 5 minutes back. May as well enjoy YOUR NOW. Don’t worry about THEM. They ARE truly miserable. I promise. And in the end, YOU WILL feel lighter, I can’t even imagine THEIR deathbed thoughts. You CAN GET OUT IF THIS, just be selfish in a healthy way and put YOUR WELL BEING FIRST. Stay blessed.
I'm that person who was putting my needs last and fulfilling the role of making others happy, particularly men...although it was my caregiver of the same sex who required it. Navigating new waters now trying not to unconsciously take care of men's needs over my own and get entangled in affairs that blow up in disaster because of this pattern
It's why I finally realized that it isn't worth pursuing another relationship, both due to my age, & how much of my life I want to live on my own terms. Every ex sabotaged my pursuing my own dreams. Today, I put all my energy into my SoulFam members, as well as working on my creative legacy
Yep👍 its SO HARD😫 I so rejected motherhood as a career, just realised at 55🤦 Ive spent a lifetime mothering motherless single disfunctional men😳 ALL MY LIFE🤣 and fluffy wee dogs😂 I lived my life knowing I couldnt cope with hsving kids like my narcissistic siblings and that there was nothing in my mother's life of mothering I wanted😳 I DID NOT KNOW THERE WAS ANYTHING DIFFERENT😩
Dear Jay, your videos have honestly changed my life. I feel free and happy. I often listen to the videos twice because my mind goes off at relevant thought tangents. You always hit so many truth spots that I need to think through. Thank you for the amazing, generous and insightful person you are ❤
My mind does that too! So I then wonder what important things I missed, rewind, rewind! Sometimes I also wonder if something is too hard for me at that time to handle and so my mind zones off in a different way to a safer space for a while. Then I bring myself back and go, "Hey what was I thinking about that for"?, That's not what this video is about! Tangents have pros and cons, don't they? 🙂
Thank you, Jay! This video was definitely helpful to me. I'm hoping to grow a few more healthy friendships. The challenge is - I've gotten sucked in by covert and overt narcissists so many times, in my family and beyond, that I find it pretty challenging to risk making new friendships. But the good news is - I find as I heal past trauma in therapy that I tend to gravitate more toward people who are kind. I mean people with honest kindness who don't spend large amounts of time talking behind other peoples' backs about how bad those other people are. I feel safer and have more fun with people who basically enjoy and value themselves and others, who know that the inevitable storms in life aren't the total picture.
This video and the comments are so relatable. I also found for so long, the only way I could turn off this automatic attention to others and focus on myself was to be alone.
So helpful, thank you! Yes, those types of relationships have been so exhausting. Sadly, it's all I know so I avoid ALL relationships. Logically, I know they're not supposed to be like that. I've been isolating until I find a better way. I'll look into imaginary crimes.
I was at a meeting with a friend, technically I was enemy camp. 🫢 I had just come away from relationship where my ex ruined our lives by being on drugs. Ok these are the people in recovery, some court ordered, but working on it. I was THRILLED to hear names of books and speakers some followed in the self help arena! Same people I follow. It was very exciting to go back and forth with people that GET IT! I don’t care how they wound up on that path, they’re trying to understand, fix and improve. Thrilled me to no limit. With th ex, just lies, no accountability, blame shifting. It’s not that I don’t or won’t forgive, I just find progress a thing to celebrate! I wish you well on your journey, and the others in your group. I’m proud of you from far away. You got this! ✨🥰✨
In my opinion, I don't think you've described narcissistic parents, in particular. There are parents that have other disorders or even difficulties that behave in the same way, depressed parents, with OCD traits, with borderline traits etc. Those with OCD my be very careful, cautious and/or worried about many things. They may be hoarders, expect you not to leave the house etc. People with borderline may never feel loved. They may have anger spurts, moments when they isolate themselves, become distant. They may be very needy, expecting the child to be like a parent to them or a lover or a caretaker. On the other hand, at certain times, they may become very apologetic, remorseful. At other times they may be very caring. There's an inconsistency there, and it can have high impacts, especially if those moods or emotions are very intense and the parent cannot "see" the child, essentially, as he/she is overwhelmed with his/her moods. Narcissistic parents, in particular, are those that treat their child as an extension of themselves, but based on performance and image. They care about certain aspects, certain values that they have deemed to be superior and expect their child to adopt them, as-well. These aspects are more important than the child's emotional development or wellbeing. They may enjoy having a baby, because it makes them look good, like a good mother or father. "Look at me! I am raising a child!". They may enjoy it when the baby giggles, as, again, it proves how great of a parent they are. "Look at how my baby is! He is ideal! Of course he is, as I'm ideal too!". However, if the baby throws a tantrum in public, making them look bad, they may slap him, when no one is looking. The child must get good grades, must act in the way they want the child to act, share the same values, even be the same gender, if possible. They may hate traits they believe to be of the opposite gender. When the child becomes an adolescent, all hell breaks loose. The narcissistic parent cannot handle a rebel. The parent himself is the forever adolescent.
Hell, my siblings & I were slapped with onlookers. Kicked like bad little puppies with observers. So, now when the fairy tale doesn't make sense, it is somehow my fault. I forgive the physical abuse. The tongue lashes and emotional mistreatment that now take center stage are driving me away.
@@DebbieLee-dr3hr I'm sorry :( I'm glad it's over now, at least. I don't know what to say. It's difficult for me to imagine what you've been through, to feel it myself... When hitting a defenseless child, you have no empathy... That goes hand in hand with narcisism
Thank you so much Dr Jay! I really appreciate your messages. This one in particular is really important. Often we’re drawn towards the familiar rather than what’s healthy
She was a single mother who, if wasn’t watching television while laying across the entire couch, cried loudly at night in the dark and told Amanda “your dad doesn’t love us”
This is really just one aspect of "safe people", and relates more to covert narcissists. There are plenty more psychopathic narcissists who aren't using people for emotional support/don’t need supply in that sense but are still highly abusive.
“I don’t want you to worry about me” then proceed to be miserable when I said ok and left. - mom It’s taken years to decode but I have made progress I think this next relationship will be an indicator if I have healed. I went through a lot of toxic codependency
I asked a wise person once how do you know whether to keep giving money to someone in need, and I was told to watch the person once the money is handed over to see how they are managing it, also does this person keep coming back and asking for money all the time or are they finding ways and means to use whatever talents they may have to generate new income. This was something I experienced with a cousin who kept asking for help,but the underlying issue was that he preferred not to work and live off others. Definitely not a safe cup to be filling anymore. Thanks Jay 🙏Another in-depth and helpful video🎞📹Hope you and Brizo 🦴🐾🦴🐾have a lovely ⛵️weekend further✨🌈💫
to be fair most victims of abuse have a deep need people for people to show love to "fill up" their need to feel loved but that is due to the hurt they feel but they are not toxic, just need loved due to chronic lack of love for most (or all) of their lives just because someone needs people to show love does NOT Make them abusive!!!
Thank you. Im graduating in psicology and im a survivor of severe narcisistic traumatized people that ended up passing their trauma onto me. Im healing and improving because of years of inner work and studying and then i found your channel. Thank you, you put this in such a good way that people can understand. I can never be too grateful for the souls that are on this path and are generous enough to help into freeing others. Only we know the darkness of being trapped in the view that a narcissistic parent have into us and about our worth. Thank you.
That’s right they’re self-content because they’re independent they fill their own cups self-reliance is innate they don’t have to feel victim they don’t have to feel insecure their strengths are the total opposite
😅 I took it literally. My narcs would always ask me to fill their cups to drink for them all the time coffee milk water... But the people who are safe not only never ask me to buy request I don't. It was hard to unlearn.
I'm so close to being healed from my covert narc mother at last. I'm 68. It's been a very long, hard road. My only remaining problem is that when I'm looking her in the face, I can't bring myself to be truthful. I've never told her thst she's abused me, I just keep my silence and endure. I just can't hurt her in any way. Weird!
@@jenster29 thank you for seeing this. You're right. I've spent my whole life trying to control everything around her so she won't get angry. It's a seething malevolence, and terrifying.
If a safe person does a favor for you or gives a gift, nothing is expected back. Also they never mention it to others. They don't need praise or acknowment.
I'm starting to wonder if my Mom is a narcissist. Maybe not a grandiose or even a high range, but possibly a low-range. There's a reason why I tolerated the crap from my midrange covert ex-wife for so long. Well I'm tired of taking abuse from anyone. I've been putting boundaries around everyone. My Mom accused me of being tired when I shut her down because she was doing these subtle little digs at me for not being good enough at something. Nope my give a crap meter has just broken and I don't take crap anymore.
My mother was not a narcissist, but I definitely was the scapegoated child so I have all the characteristics of that child. But there is a fine line here and I DID manage to hook up with a narcissistic partner for 3 years and that felf normal in the sense that my needs were not respected or honored. I was not supposed to have any. That was the way I grew up. So that part of the relationship felt the same. Also, no time for me. That also felt normal to me. The gaslighting, that also felt normal. My mother was not empty inside though like my partner was. My partner was classic textbook covert narcissist. Nothing inside. A void. And I often saw glitches in the matrix of his persona he created. My mother, no. She was deeply wounded, and maybe narcissitic tendancies, but my partner was full blown NPD.
I have always believed in taking care of myself and loving myself because that’s where it starts when you love yourself when you think you are all you need it came from taking care of myself as a child. When both my parents were alcoholics both were narcissistic and they fought And never had time for children.. not only did I take care of my younger siblings I also took care of the house as I was the oldest daughter at eight years old nine years old 10 years old I was feeding the younger children who were six and two providing proper care, putting them to bed at night, giving them naps making sure they ate their dinner. I needed to take care of myself as I got older and I knew how to do that when I turned 17 I moved out and never returned home. I didn’t need to. I was a grown woman at 17. I knew how to do laundry. I knew how to cook. I knew how to clean. I knew how to work because I started working at 16 I had my own apartment, I was on my own. I am taking care of many people in my life my two children. I was a single parent and had no support in their father so I was on my own being on my own is not hard. I prefer it I can do anything I need to do alone. I mow my own grass. I fix my own roof. I have more tools than most men, including Skil saw and chainsaws and everything else I need if I don’t know something I learn it. If I need to know something I figure it out. I don’t rely on others, especially for love because I love myself. I am proud of who I am and I am strong enough to know that I am the best person I can be even if I have faults, even if I can’t do something even if I fall short, I am still, a great human being that is worthy of loving herself every day
It was so devastating when my mother told me as a teenager "I know you better than you know yourself". As if anything I ever did or was could only exist through the lens in which she saw it. When I got divorced, I was told "what have you now? nothing. who are you now? no-one". Like I was passed on from one narc to another. When I bought a nice home, she said I only did it to make my brother feel bad. When my kids got into ivy leagues, I only made them do it to "make myself feel good". I had to go no contact. The only thing is my kids still want to see her. I have to go with them because it's so destructive and I won't expose them to it alone. I always come away shattered.
Thank you for being there for your children. I will no longer put myself in the company of my elderly parents. My son and daughter are grown, and I trust they can hold up to alone time. But, I find myself doing less and less in regards to my mother, especially her. I will never supply her with anything except silence.
OMG ALL my boyfriends! I had to wait until I knew they didnt 'need' to be looked after before I could commit🤦 THANKS SO MUCH FOR EXPLAINING!! Narcissistic parents/siblings😊
Yeah, my soon to be ex wife was always getting me to fill her cup. About 8 cups of tea a day, I reckon. Seriously, I *know* she could comprehend how the kettle worked, because she made her own tea before we met, but it always had to be me doing it. I don't even drink the stuff.
I dropped a "friend" like this a couple years ago and I still have a hard time putting words to the intense anger I felt - I just knew it was justified. The narrative in my head after getting this guilt tripping response after saying no to an invitation was "Who the hell do you think you are in my life?" I just cannot imagine believing that I have claim to another adults time - we all have very little of it to go around. And here was this woman who was actually angry, and expected me to feel bad for "letting her down" - like she was a freaking 12 year old...I'm just baffled by people like this. I knew I was absolutely in the right, but the force of my anger and that I wanted nothing more to do with her puzzled me. This video helps break it down. I have had to deal with far too much of this in my life with family to volunteer my time with people I'm not even related to - and don't even particularly like. I cut off that friendship, and this woman continued to stalk me for the next two years. My instincts were one hundred percent correct.
I slowly distanced from most family(people i want to love) after both parents died...now having some good contact with 1-2 siblings (using boundaries). Yesterday, i spent an evening out having dinner with a trusted friend. I felt alive, validated, cared about, safe and remembered what I need- is what's been missing.
that story about claire reminds me of a person who influenced me to expect more from my parents by how she operated. God bless her. I messed up with her, I miss her.
Good sign in people: Mutual respect and encouragement(YES!) of boundaries Mutually respectful interactions in general allowing for safe vulnerability (using vulnerability against one another is an absolute NO!)
For my vision board, I took notes of the 5 signs of a safe relationship AND paraphrased what made Claire such a good/safe friend. Thank you for helping me articulate this. It truly resonates!
augh. When I hear my story on this channel, I just cringe. I am not in a relationship until I feel like I know who I am and what I need. This is all new to me and feels weird but I will get used to it.
I especially love this post because oftentimes people aren’t aware that they are born into roles that the parent, siblings, and the entire family assign. It’s best to find the safe people around us and know that being around safe and unsafe people look, feel, and be like. Thanks for another insightful video! 💜
I didn't fulfill shit for the narc I lived with. If anything, I'm the complete opposite of what typical people become under narcissists. If I was obedient, it was to get my tyrant grandfather off my case. He specified the rules, we had to greet him in the morning, afternoon, and evening bc he was the patriarch. He didn't earn respect, he demanded its performance. No smiling or laughing was allowed, unless it was for him. If we didn't smile when we saw him, he'd have an outburst. No closing the doors to the bedrooms, no privacy at all. Chores & meals were to be done to his specifications. He beat us if we talked back or defied him, which I did alot. I refused to let him win, I hated him. And although I was combative, for the most part I was avoidant. That's the personality I ended up with. I just hid.... usually the bathroom or closet where doors could close, or in the basement which he avoided, mostly bc his obese ass hated stairs. My proudest moment was during a beating, telling him that I'm not the problem - that he was the **common denominator** in all the fights & arguments. In between each slap, I listed each family member that abandoned him: "Your wife left you, your daughter won't speak to you, your sons only use you for money, even your favorite (my eldest brother) moved out to get away from you..." After my beating, he walked away and while cleaning the blood and his spit off my face, my mom had the nerve to shake her head & say "why did you say that, you went too far". My youngest bro ran in "what did you say to grandpa, he's crying". What a manipulative asshole, he snitched to my baby bro. I told him "Good, let him feel what it's like to be broken down". I never once felt sympathy. Eventually I escaped to an apartment, and took my siblings until they got on their own feet. I don't service people much anymore or fill their voids. I am unapologetic about fulfilling my own needs. I leave people alone, I do not burden them or impose myself in their lives. My siblings deserve to live a quiet life where they can finally breathe & not have to worry about me. If this man has taught me anything, its to be suspicious of people who manipulate and are co-dependent. If anything, I'm completely untrusting. So maybe I'm the opposite extreme of those who acquiesce under narcisists. I have no patience for needy people or victim-addicts. I am a defender of victims, but I have a nuanced understanding between victims who genuinely want help and those who weaponize it. I want to be careful here, bc there are many who dismiss victims bc they fear losing some sort of power advantage. That's not what I'm talking about, but the moment I feel guilted or manipulated, I will still help a person but with a guarded skepticism. My help is freely given, I don't mind losing my time, but I can tell when they start using this same weaponization tactic repeatedly to get me to do things and that becomes the clarification I need to eventually avoid that person. My main flaw is I've become so avoidant of most people except my siblings (occasional), that I don't have friends or enough of a social life, which I do crave.
Your doggie in the chair ❤ and my gosh, do you describe me and how my relationships were. Big emphasis on past tense! Thanks to much healing and recovery from amazing channels like yours.
Experiencing a conflict AND an attuned mutual repair attempt. I have a hard time navigating friendship as I believe I am a magnet for narcissistic relationships. Boundaries and workability are areas I work on balancing.
Now I’m not sure if my dad’s a narcissist, he never made me feel like I had to be looking at him at all times. He has made me feel scared of getting a boyfriend because he’ll get jealous and hyper critical.
Wow. Good information. I listen to alot of videos about narcissist abuse- this really keys in on its effect on children. I relate very strongly, unfortunately. I always feel i MUST ATTEND to whoever im with. My attention must go to them at all times or i will be af hurt or insult them in some way. Its fear based. Its crazy and im going to practice not doing it anymore and, instead, deal with whatever feelings come up . Thank you for a great video.
Physiological safe people own their problems. This means 1st of all, they recognized their wrong personality traits on their own (people on their outside don't have to make big efforts for them to see them) & r wanting to better them. Also, what Jay said, " & dont feel entitled to others fixing what they feel inside." To elaborate, it is right to not feel intitled in some ways & amounts, but not others; also u should receive certain thgs from others, especially family members, like offering help to lean on & work against certain QUANTITIES of defects on ur personality/character, but not to the point of an abuser like narcisist & such.
Thank you so much for talking about looking away from the parent - it’s always been a huge problem for me as my parents both demanded that when they talked to me, I’d sit and look them in the eyes. My father would rage if I looked away even momentarily or looked less than fascinated with what he said. He demanded that especially when he berated me for hours and sometimes for days. I’m now a caretaker for my vulnerable narcissistic mother who stares at me intensely all the time, and often in quiet rage. Then I can’t look at her and I have to escape as quickly as I can. I feel that she’s trying to show me how horrible I am and it can be just because I didn’t show over the top excitement when seeing her. Do you have any advice on how to handle her staring?
THANK YOU , THANK YOU, THANK YOU. Mr. Reid, the video describes very well my childhood. After 30 yrs. of studying and trying to fix it I can accurately state that. I needed to hear it in this context. It cleared a lot of things for me. I also learned a few things. You couldn’t gotten here at a better time. Keep up the good work. May the Universe bless you!
When you date an addict who can’t take care of themselves, they’ll feel entitled to you running their life for them And jealous when you do anything good for You. All these situations stem from having had crappy parenting. It’s sooo hard to break the pattern but once you do, life is so much better. You only accept good treatment 🎉
I have always put my happiness first, 😊😊mumzie expected too much from me. When I became a parent I never required my kids to fill me up like that. I was tough as nails when I was one ys old, when I saw a woman who can't take care of herself or me. I'm grateful I forged ahead and played my music , never stopping . My anger turned to the arts to soothe me . 😊 My animals teach me what true love is.❤
Pay attention to the way your body feels when you are around the person….your body will tell you
I found another point that was very helpful from Henry Cloud’s book on Safe People. Safe people don’t talk one-up to you but treat you as equals. I have also found a true indicator is to test whether that person allows you to have your own preferences, or if they need you to adhere to their choices/opinions.
This (being ok with others having their own preferences) seems like a no brainer. But it was so ingrained into me since childhood that it took me well into my 60s to see how abnormal my family system was. Continuing to insist I must like the same music, TV shows etc as they do. When I finally moved physically to place where I felt joy and peace I was bombarded with “concern”. I’ve gone NC (without anger or malice) and things are FINALLY becoming clear. The peace is incredible.
Safe people seem to be interested in your opinions and experiences that are different than theirs. It shows acceptance and respect.
Not all the time. Sometimes narcs are extremely interested in you, not because they care but because they're studying you, learning what makes you tick so they can plan their lives in yours
abbas joy- exactly. some of the comments on here portray narcissists in one way. the fact is- prayer is the key and discernment to know what’s safe and what’s not
It does show acceptance and respect and it is so beautiful
though rare as hens teeth
Yes, sometimes they listen for ways to trap you later on. Genuine people don't act like this. Usually though you can tell what they are about after a few interactions.
As a child the only way I could get a moment’s peace was to isolate because my parents expected to see you moving and being productive at all times. They demanded obedience and compliance. The impact into adulthood is not being able to rest, and not knowing what my needs are. It’s devastating.
same, but now i spoil myself. i say, if i had a husband who tduly loved me, would he let me do, buy, etc for myself. of course its always yes:) it helps to use to give yourself permission
Wow same
Constant movement,
Don't !
Correct. Because we not love ourself. We learned to love the others in a distorted way. With meditation we can heal. Taking out time and deeply breath.. In the most lovely surrounding we can built for us. Like a nest. This is when my soil starts rising.
Same, but I eventually put religion/spirituality in place of the parent. I thought I had moved past the parent issue but took another 30 years to realize my image of God/Source was that of a demanding father that loved me but was never quite happy with my performance. My thought process: "I'm not sure what, but I must be doing SOMETHING very wrong or my life would be better." I basically created a replacement demanding oppressor in my own mind.
it was such a relief to learn healthy adults take care of themselves...anybody who regularly triggers those old guilt feelings is not a safe person.
Well put! I wish I could give your comment more than one thumbs-up!
THIS.
Imagine being born around a vortex that slowly, imperceptibly, sucks in your light. Not only is the presence of that drain an injury, but also that that person was supposed to be a source of strength for you, someone you could rely on. Not only do you not have that safe rock to rest on, but every time you try to put your hand down on something solid, it drains you. And you try to grow up, to make friends, to become a human being, to do the demanding business of establishing a life. And then you go out into the world, and you attract the same kind of people. You don't know what it is like to have your light honored by another, but you are starving for it. Even if the people who drain you do so slowly, it is the lack of satisfying relationships that hurts, and over the years turns into starvation and malnutrition. You're an adult, and you've been on this planet 30 years, and there was a whole lot of life and love that wasn't there.
I was born into the exact opposite of that vortex and then married the vortex. It has killed part of me….
I know that vortex. Its bad
so true!!!!
My narcissistic mother doesn't want me to solve her problems... if her problems were solved, she'd only have to find new ones to keep clamoring about. She just enjoyed watching me TRY to solve her problems. It was the attention and sympathy she was after, not the actual solving of actual, real problems. She had no problems except the ones she created in order to have something to wail about.
Good point!!
wow, we have the same mother. 😂
LOL. Called her a manipulative fake puppet and that was it. She knew she was figured out. The gig was up
Exactly
Narcissist parents also don't want your own problems to get solved. That will make them feel jealous of you.
I think what really strikes me about safe people is their ability to enjoy themselves in their life.
Also, no negativity. Complaining, criticizing or comparing.
Well and more freedom to be authentic, not having to mask so much. That's what I look forward to in my future safe relationships, what must it be like to feel completely yourself and feel accepted by those around me. What we all wish for
I really don't think it's true that safe people are super happy, nor is it true that they have no negativity, no complaining, no criticising... In many many situations (consider, when you are the victim of narcissistic abuse) it is appropriate to not enjoy it, to see it negatively, to complain about it, to criticise the abusers.
@@Hippowdon121 THIS. I'm safe but I'm 😢
@@kimberleyb4002sounds like toxic positivity
As a child of two narcissistic parents, a shoutout to my gorgeous adult life friends who check all the boxes in safe relationships. I'm eternally grateful, thank you all.
This 👏👏👏👏 so lucky.
I'm 58 years old. My father, older sister and exhusband are narcissists. Putting myself first makes me feel very vulnerable and like I'm walking into a trap. The only way I feel safe to do that is by living in isolation.
I'm 43 and it's the same for me. My father, younger sister, and ex-wife are narcissists. I've been living in isolation for the first time for about 2 years now. Ironically during that time, I'm finding a kind of focus that I've rarely been able to maintain because of other people always being around. I'm able to concentrate on myself and what I need to do in my life without feeling guilt or shame, or worry or doubt or fear. I also - as you say - feel "safe" in a way I cannot ignore. I realize it's the first time, in many ways, that I've ever felt this feeling of simply being able to exist without some threat, punishment, criticism or pressure. In an ideal world, I would be able to share life with someone, but I also am seeing how safe I feel in isolation and how productive it has been for me, and it crosses my mind at times, that now that I've found this, I don't know that I'm willing to run of the risk of sacrificing or jeopardizing it for anyone.
@@ets5697 Your description 'I feel safe in a way I can't ignore'. Is perfect. I know what you mean. I resent it when I have to engage with people in person. 'Safe' people seem to be a rarity and at this point in my life I'm not willing to give up the space I feel good in to seek them out.
48 here - and same - father, ex-husband and sister :(
Same - living in private isolation is ironically the ONLY way us survivors can live like a normal human being. It's hard to overcome distrust of others and find safe ppl when you escape in yr 40s and 50s
I can relate to that
I'm 58 and I never had a safe person in my entire childhood. Right now I am living in isolation, doing IFS therapy on my own and finally connecting to my inner child parts that are so traumatized. I'll connect with myself first.
I always notice when people listen to me.
I find that I isolate myself now more than ever.
I feel that I have lost the ability to trust.
Than you are in their game. If that happens the focus is on trying to please others, if we not feel competent about ourselves we not talk at all. So we isolte. The key is to notice the dussapearance of joy in us. Look out for what makes us happy and give it to us. Stop looking to find something worthy to give the other. So wrong. Life and do what you like 100 pro!
Me too. 😢
You can voice your opinion comfortably knowing they won't agree with you but won't get offended.
With safe people their is solution oriented discussion.
They are self development focussed so no bitching or talking about other's.
I gave up on having a good relationship with my two narcissistic parents. My role as the loser scapegoat was iron clad so I was wasting my time and energy. Now I am more discerning and choose to enjoy being with safe pleasant people. They ARE out there!
I still experience some anxiety about what new friends think or if I am not fulfilling their expectations but happily this anxiety is being confirmed as unnecessary.
It's so nice to read your positive comment. At some point we have to realize that by self-isolating and withdrawing from everything, the only people we're hurting are ourselves. Bessel Van Der Kolk, who, among others, says it's impossible to heal on our own and that it's only by finding connection with ourselves can we release the trauma.
One small side note: narcissists are not empty. They are filled with dread. Empty would be less dangerous.
Yes, they are quite literally the result of the same abuse.
Jealousy, rage, insecurity, fear of abandonment. It’s super sad to think about it really.
Interesting. Maybe the dread drives them to find relief or distraction from it.
@@philipbrooks7640kinda like a drug addict escaping reality
True. The way I came to understand it is that narcissists have extreme fear of abandonment and disapproval. So, before someone else makes those fears come true, they blame that someone of the same things so that the other person would feel guilty, try to correct themselves, not blame this person, and not leave this person because they're not the one who's wrong. The problem is, narcissists have internalized this coping mechanism so much that they actually believe it's always the other person's fault if they become emotionally dysregulated and it's always the other person's responsibility to provide them with emotional regulation. So, they are usually quite opposed to become emotionally self-aware enough to realize what's happening because that would mean they would have to face those dreaded feelings of guilt, shame and disgust with themselves for being who they are, which is the first step to overcoming those fears of abandonment and disapproval, which will lead to them actually empathizing with others and have healthy relationships.
1 very import NG marker of safe people is, that they always stand on your side. They can dedect immediately your hurt and injustice behavior of others towards you. They give you a hug, and offer their help as you need it. They are sensitive to your individual desires.
Jay, thank you for this excellent video! After reading the comments, I realize that so many of us are choosing isolation instead of exploring new realtionships. Some have lost decades of life to merely surviving narcissistic relationships and are now grieving that deeply. In an attempt to live fully and make the most of every bit of life remaining, we are not willing to gamble with our time. Isolation feels extremely safe. Although we know connection is important, we don't have the physical or emotional energy to risk it. Thank you for this information! It feels like I have guidance on how to begin. Many blessings to you and to everyone walking this path.
Having a pet is one way to deal with it.
You summed up my feelings perfectly. I grew up with an alcoholic father, narc mother and had a narc husband for fifteen years. I'm exhausted. I don't have the energy to meet new people and pray the cycle of abuse doesn't start all over again. The only safe zone is alone. I have a dog and that helps. I just wake up every day and try to make the best of things.
I’m pretty extroverted…
But my mirror relationship is so stressful and at times toxic- it is improving but the damage has been significant.
I dont have the social energy sometimes to go do stuff cuz the toll my difficult marriage has had on me. Plus my hubby isolates and usually has close friends that validates him rather than challenges him and he doesnt like that in me…
He wants to feel “comfortable”.
I have learned while relaxation is important- lassie faire and laziness breeds bad things.
We can rest and be content while growing and learning to be better.
We can also be friends with people who are good for us and are safe but also challenge us in good, healthy ways to be better
Maybe because being alone feels freeing to be oneself and one enjoys a rich interior life whereas being with others is what causes the feelings of isolation.
I have yet to find healthy people. There's a TON of people with very high narcissistic traits out here in the wild, and I'm finding it pointless to even go out anymore...
.. Speaking about being social, and finding new, healthy friends. There needs to be a support group, with healthy people paired with us survivors, with the healthy people being vetted. I'm the scapegoat, only child, and had this belief even further cemented, due to my religious family...it was always about everyone else, except me. The more I served, the more praise I got, and my narcissist parents (both were), left me alone...but that was always short lived. Now, I'm happy my family estranged me in teenage years, and have been on my own ever since, and I'm 51. ❤
Yes!!!!!
Yes
My family has been the same. Living in peace, just a few safe people.
@ArtemisSilverBow I beg to differ. One cannot associate socially with their therapist. A safe person can just be someone to have fun with & not feel threatened by. They play very different roles, imo.
I'm not sure healthy people would actively choose to be judged and then have to baby a damaged individual until that individual could take charge of themselves again. Talk about a ball and chain. No that is not acceptable to a healthy person.
I always need do double double check if someone wasn't hurt by my reactions. Even if it is completely normal to say what I want or need to do.
How you know if they didn't like your comment... it only shows likes.
Oh my God I never noticed I did this until you pointed this out.
A lot of us are so conditioned to think there's something really bad/wrong with us, because of the people that were supposed to love and care for us. Sometimes it feels like a curse, a death sentence at birth that one is supposed to carry out, and often I've blamed myself because why on Earth would someone do something so horrible to another human being, the same as they are? It's baffling.
Beautiful harp.
Also a survivor of abuse, and your comment just caught my eye because of the harp in your pic.
I’ve been binging harp content here on TH-cam (it’s been a dream since childhood to play one), I will give your channel a listen 😊
Commenting again to ask, is that a welsh triple harp? I only just learned of them and I am seeing three rows of strings there.
It doesn't matter if they like it. That question is such a scapegoat one.
No offense. I know thus deeply ingrained fear of saying something wrong. Don't gibmve a f* what others think
The biggest green flag in a relationship is the ability to be accountable and apologize genuinely. I'm through with allowing myself to be treated like crap because my parents decided I wasn't worth care and consideration.
@@neuroqueercoach I have lived the opposite. Grew up in a storybook with an epic childhood and fantastic loving stable parents. Then I married someone completely dysfunctional.
And yes zero care and consideration, the degree of selfishness is so significant I can’t even truly comprehend how a grown human could be that oblivious to others needs and also totally fail to do almost anything for anyone besides themselves.
And yes he does NOT do accountability, holding himself accountable for his behavior is extremely rare.
@@lijohnyoutube101 oof, yeah if you don't see it coming, that can wreck your whole world. I hope you're getting the support you deserve. I can suggest some youtubers to help if you've interest.
As a scapegoat, I was the person least capable of filling my parents up. Every other person had a bit of value to them in some way, but I had nothing acceptable to offer. So, I fulfilled their needs in that way, by being the designated loser.
Same here ❤ I was so conditioned to be the "bad guy".
Maybe, but even if that's true you became that way on their watch or as a result of inheriting their genetic material. It's more likely what you had to offer threatened to either expose or outshine them. One doesn't need to designate a loser (undermine competence) if he can find some way to take credit for it behind the child's back.
❤️❤️❤️ sending you love ❤️ what a lie, remember they can’t really see you. They can only see what plays in their own mind. I hope you’re finding kindness and love for yourself. Through that a sense of who you are, and your inherent worth. I believe we are all made beautiful and miraculous beings. Don’t play their fake role for you!
I experienced this too but you are not a loser in truth. This is their own projection of themselves onto you.. ThEY are mentally defective and immature losers
@@dreamscape405I’m sorry that you also have experienced this. It is undeserved, and I hope you know that you are more deserving of compassion than you were led to believe.
For me, a healthy, safe person expresses curiosity when there is conflict or something they don’t expect. They express a genuine desire to learn about what they don’t immediately see or think of.
Thank you Jay! I'm adopted, which has made all of this worse. I already wasn't wanted and then the lady who picked me up has been trying to destroy my life ever since. I'm 44. My adoptive father divorced her when i was one...one year after the adoption. I would be unalive if he hadn't been in the picture. He passed in 2007 and as you can imagine, i became even better prey for her because i lost my safe person. I'm finally close to no contact with her. My God, i honestly just thought i couldn't do good enough for these people but at some point, God removed the fog and oh my! Well, i finally stopped drinking and now God is moving mountains. It's kinda scary. I don't trust another human anymore otherwise i would seek professional help. That's why i am extra grateful for you Jay!
Its worth looking for help🙂 can take a while, can be hard. Its worth doing👍👍
I’m sorry you had such a terrible experience (fellow adoptee - a-dad had lots of narc tendencies, was also alcoholic and had the same mental illness that forced my b-mum to give me up as a toddler. They hid all that from the authorities. I’m not going to write much more cos don’t want it turning into a novel, but while they did good things for me too, there was a lot of unnecessary shit and little defence from critical, religion-forcing grandmother, who wasn’t a fan of independent thinking lol).
❤ ✝️🙌 I get this.
Love your dog. Was 'raised' by a narc who terrorized dad too. They ultimately kill thru vampirism. Your chan is deeply insightful and healing. TH-cam has become this well of wisdom.
This was the answerr to a question I have asked myself for 50+ years: Will something bad happen to others if I am me?
Instead of the question
Will something bad happen to me if I am me?
@@DebbieLee-dr3hrAmd then comes the question who is me anyway?
I’m in recovery and the only real friend I’ve found in life is Christ. I feel so bad about myself most days trying to tune out the abusive behavior. I am so scared of being unsafe with people that I isolate myself. I’m grateful for Christ. I wish everyone healing and love.
Stay on this path! My faith in GOD is what has kept me safe in the most miraculous of situations. Putting GOD FIRST you can never go wrong!
Stay blessed, safe and prosperous. Jesus WILL get you thru this ✨🙏🕊️✨
My mother would say, "You would feel better about yourself if you put me first."
So sorry, that is horrible!😢
My mother accused me of being the cause of all her sorrow as well as her marital problems since I was little.
Wow! I hope you're no contact now. What a despicable oxygen thief she is/was. So happy you can see her clearly 🥰
OMG! 😮
What, really?? Omg...
I love the list -- you're right that it's just a handful of signs, but they are great ones. I couldn't help noticing that in your fictionalized example, the narcissistic father was a psychologist. I think that the mental health field actually attracts people with narcissistic personality styles. Thanks for being one of the good ones, Jay.
Recently, I heard a couple times, if you pray for patience, you’ll be given situations where you NEED patience.
Finally, after hearing it a couple of times, I GOT IT!
I want to be around people that patience isn’t needed, everything is already calm.
So many of these things I wished I understood DECADES ago. But OK I’m getting it NOW!
I have joined a kendo (martial arts) class and just over a couple of months now, I'm finding that there are some people there who I feel are safe people and who I want to become closer friends with. On the other hand, there are also some clearly unsafe people, and I find myself not needing to look after or tolerate them, I just don't really care about them that much, and definitely don't want to spend more time around them or get closer. I look forward to seeing the safe ones again each week and to talking to them and getting to know them.
I think one of the signs of safe people, is that, you tend to feel better about yourself after your interactions with them. Even if you didn't discuss something personal. I think this is because scapegoat survivors have a basic strength and feel good about ourselves, and if we interact with a safe person and can be natural and not have to restrict ourselves or look after the other person, then those natural feelings can come more to the forefront of our conscious experience.
By contrast, with an unsafe person you might feel a more unnatural rush during the interaction, but are left feeling more drained, stressed, out of your body, or disoriented, afterwards.
This is perfect ❤
For me, it was stressful to choose myself sometimes in my current relationship because I was expecting him to become mad or withdraw. I have been shocked that he doesn’t. He is understanding, cares about what I think & what I want, and we can disagree about something without it being a big deal at all. Probably the healthiest relationship I’ve ever been in (in 50).
It is correct that narcissistic parents live from the outside in. My parents were superficial and shallow. And, yes, my mother tried to use me as a tool to make her feel good about herself. But I was a kid. I didn't understand what was going on. Yes, my mother thought she owned me.
I am just learning what safe even means. I thought all my friends were safe, but their behavior doesn’t match up with the qualities you describe here and elsewhere. I’m grateful you are listing these traits of safety so now I know what to look for. Better late than never at 51.
Even though I am not a narcissist, I grew up with 3 of them and never learned what safe behavior was, so I believe I haven’t been a safe person either. Codependency is not safe, nor is being overly empathetic.
I have been forced into isolation due to complex chronic illness and I don’t like it; yet it has given me the needed time to learn as well as develop a new way of relating to myself in safer ways. I have been brutally abusive towards myself - inner critic on steroids! But listening to Jay’s and others videos is helping me become more tolerant and sometimes genuinely compassionate towards myself. I would not have chosen isolation, but I have eked out goodness from it. Hopefully if/when I am better and can meet new people I will have a radar and criteria and be looking for qualities of safety I never previously thought of. If you would have me then that was the only requirement for friendship or relationship because I was so shame based.
This is the best summary of my life. It now feels safe to me when my friends have lots of other friends! And they don’t love bomb me.
just because someone has a lot of friends doesn’t mean their safe- some narcissists like a lot of attention. just be yourself and try to see who you can get along with....
they* are safe^
I’m learning that sometimes less is more…
It’s harder to maintain a large group of friends and know who’s on your side who isn’t .
It’s pretty easy to maintain a few friends , even if they don’t really know each other. You can really see who they are.
There’s certain qualities that are needed to have a trusted friend … you are not gonna find that in a large group.
Pay attention to larger groups of women: there is always the head chicken who tells everyone else what to do… they love having a large group of women around them for the influence and control. It’s pretty easy to pick that out.
The harder time is in smaller groups of women where everyone is pretending to not want to control … you’ll find the women… usually in smaller groups. It’s passive control rather than overt boisterous control in a large group.
The smaller group of women will try to convince you to put up with things you shouldn’t and will use their emotions and how they feel through their “heart “ what you should do.
Real friends are honest with you in a loving way … they let you know when what you do is hurting them or bothering them. Real friends ask how you are doing…
I realize I wasn’t a real friend for a long time because of my own problems and my own hurt… I didn’t care about others like I thought I did.
That attracts bad people .
Now that I am learning and healing from narcissistic parents and working through my part of what causes issue in my marriage and my husband either ignore or deal with his own issues- I’m not there to rescue him. He’s not here to rescue me… that is individual work.
But since I have worked very hard on myself the past several years , I have much better friends and I’ve been to release those who seem unhealthy….
It doesn’t mean people don’t have problems or struggles … friends don’t gossip and destroy you behind your back; they care about you and they want to know how you’re doing but also talk about each other and get to know who you are not just what you are to them.
Remember, even bad friends will be there for you if they want to feel good about themselves … can you show up on the doorstep at the moment.
Are they there for you when no one else notices?
Your friends don’t care about getting credit for things they’re just there and they want you not what you can do for them
I've wondered my whole life, why can I take care of others so well but not myself. The things I could do for others, I found it very difficult when it came to doing it for myself. Turned out that it was a mental block due to childhood programming.
Safe people have a heart felt reaction to connection, it’s non judgemental, mutual, empathetic, often quiet, warm, accepting and soothing. Narcs despite their smooth charming exterior feel jagged, fragmented, not present even when they are looking directly at you. They are brittle with an undercurrent of rage. I can literally feel the scheming expectations going on, energy just doesn’t lie. I’m done automatically believing the best in people, that kind of belief system leads to selection error. I just take people as they come and l never chase. If people treat me badly l consider them untrustworthy the 1st time and they don’t get a 2nd chance. If lm treated well we go to the next level of trust. I find it’s most important to be that safe person for myself. Good boundaries, get rid of guilt and shame, self loving habits, space for what l want and need to do. Basically learning to love and meet my own needs first. Truly 90% of my past relationships were a gross imposition of my time, energy, health, resources and selfhood. NARCS are time wasters, no substance, no-one home just a ravenous empty vessel.
Safe people are open-minded, self-assured, and have an excellent sense of humor. They are always searching for ways to connect which of course means showing respect for other points of view.
Narcissist abuse "be useful or _______"
Yeah, be useful and/or support my gradiosity - else you are nothing to nobody and deserve contempt
Be gone.
be nothing and receive nothing.
Be abandoned; physically, emotionally or both
I've been very isolated all my life, even when I was with friends. I'm 65 and I've had very little satisfaction in my life. Now I'm in therapy for narcissistic abuse. I'm progressing, the psichiatrist has told me than I'm better than in any other moment of my life and he knows me since i was 22. I had bipolar disorder and recovered but I've been fighting C-PTSD all my live but without results cuz it was not well-known in my country (Spain). I'm very grateful to this channel because it helps me to understand. I'm ASD, too. I found out when I was 60. Life is strange. I wish that I had known safe people earlier in my life but I was feeling so bad! They hurt me so badly since I was a child, mother and father, both narcissistic. My elder sister, too. I know now that being the scapegoat of a narcissistic family and being autistic is a very bad combination. But I survived and here I'm, paying attention to the video in case I may meet safe people.
It took decades and many learning experiences to teach me this, but I am in no way responsible for what others think or how they react. If somebody gets upset over just words, they have a lack of EQ, which isnt taught.
I learned to control my thoughts, emotions, and my speech. Others can do the same.
Sigma empaths have strong boundaries. Mine came mostly from a narc mom. I now don't regret the past and the abuse. It has all conspired to make me the woman I am today, and I finally like and love myself. Sweet spot!
Anybody else see it?
Can you explain what a sigma empath is?
@user-du7ht7vi5w an empath who has done healing work and learned how to have healthy boundaries / expectations in relationships , essentially ! no longer a doormat , but standing in their power
Nice! ✨🥰✨
PS my Dad came for a visit a couple weeks ago. He kept criticizing everything I did.
My limit was when I flashed my headlights to let someone go and he said that I was wrong, I should have waived my hand...in my tinted windows car?! Like, FR?
Then it was July in FL so I stopped at a gas station to get a drink. I left the AC on and the car running for him because he didn't want to come inside. He flipped out how I was wasting gas. You mean MY gas that I paid for?!
I went off on him in the store because I wanted a Slurpee but it wasn't 7-11 so they didn't have the nice nozzles and it sprayed out on the counter. I like to sample several flavors so it made a mess at each one. I cleaned it up immediately though.
Anyway, he said this is why I only take from ONE drink at a time, insinuating that using more than one flavor had somehow made a mess (even though I cleaned it up).
I went off on him, asking, "Why?! Why do you feel the need to do that?"
He looked away irritated and embarrassed and said, "Forget it."
I said, "No, let me finish. I was with a woman for 5.5 years who made it VERY clear that nothing I did was good enough. I don't need to be told that I should done this or shouldn't have done that."
I don't care who you are, you don't get to pull that garbage.
Edit: I don't think Dad's a narc. My ex-wife is but you don't have to be a narcissist to still treat someone poorly.
0:55 - this cost me everything!!. Instead of abandoning the stupid bastards.
Thank you Mr. Reid, I feel that for the lucky ones that grew up in healthy homes know all this intuitively but for us with these type of parents it helps to have these written down so that we can look back on, reflect and see where it’s healthy to be at and what to avoid.
I’m neurodivergent & totally thought you meant an actual cup, like they don’t expect people to wait on them. 😂😂😂 especially after seeing the cup in the thumbnail
If a stranger broke into your house and abused your kids, you would get revenge by calling the cops, arresting the abuser, and punishing them with jail time. The public will worship you for your bravery and commitment to getting justice.
So explain this to me - if your parents abuse you, and you get revenge, why is that considered "bad."? Why are you gaslit with stuff like "getting revenge just makes things worse for your, learn to let go and forgive."
Again let's go back to the strange breaking into your home and abusing your kids. What if I told you "hey Jay, don't call the cops, dont try to get this person thrown in jail, that will just make things worse for you. learn to forgive"
I DO understand you. But I think for me, getting past it to live MY LIFE was important. I like self improvement. I find I don’t have the bandwidth to WASTE on negative people. I’d rather savor my energy and spend it on myself.
This way, I’ve made myself my priority, and I do NOT care one whit about what THEY think or do or don’t do. I’m no longer feeding the trolls off my own table.
If I could’ve understood this so much earlier in life! Also, don’t take ANYTHING personally.
It also took me decades to understand THAT nugget of wisdom too!
If you remove yourself from the toxic situation, they will do the same damage to the next person in that slot.
This was proven to be true 55 years later! They never change! It is ABSOLUTELY NOT PERSONAL. Your golden child sibling could’ve just as easily been the black sheep. As we’ve already been wounded by this terror, our REACTION to their provocation can be utterly devastating TO US. See?
When you can detach, understand that ANY PERSON put into that situation would’ve been abused, ok? Back up, take yourself out of it, and we’re back to the first part, spend your energy coins WISELY: on YOURSELF!
I hope this makes sense. It took me WAY TOO LONG to figure it out. I’m not saying condone, but for YOUR OWN SAKE.
You don’t get those 5 minutes back. May as well enjoy YOUR NOW. Don’t worry about THEM. They ARE truly miserable. I promise.
And in the end, YOU WILL feel lighter, I can’t even imagine THEIR deathbed thoughts.
You CAN GET OUT IF THIS, just be selfish in a healthy way and put YOUR WELL BEING FIRST.
Stay blessed.
@@WhiteWolfBlackStar you’re allowed to think that
Justice is NOT the same thing as revenge, lol. Hence the fact that they are different words.
@@CobraDove1111 Exactly. Seems like my comment flew over your head :)
I'm that person who was putting my needs last and fulfilling the role of making others happy, particularly men...although it was my caregiver of the same sex who required it. Navigating new waters now trying not to unconsciously take care of men's needs over my own and get entangled in affairs that blow up in disaster because of this pattern
It's why I finally realized that it isn't worth pursuing another relationship, both due to my age, & how much of my life I want to live on my own terms. Every ex sabotaged my pursuing my own dreams. Today, I put all my energy into my SoulFam members, as well as working on my creative legacy
Yep👍 its SO HARD😫 I so rejected motherhood as a career, just realised at 55🤦 Ive spent a lifetime mothering motherless single disfunctional men😳 ALL MY LIFE🤣 and fluffy wee dogs😂 I lived my life knowing I couldnt cope with hsving kids like my narcissistic siblings and that there was nothing in my mother's life of mothering I wanted😳 I DID NOT KNOW THERE WAS ANYTHING DIFFERENT😩
Dear Jay, your videos have honestly changed my life. I feel free and happy. I often listen to the videos twice because my mind goes off at relevant thought tangents. You always hit so many truth spots that I need to think through. Thank you for the amazing, generous and insightful person you are ❤
My mind does that too! So I then wonder what important things I missed, rewind, rewind! Sometimes I also wonder if something is too hard for me at that time to handle and so my mind zones off in a different way to a safer space for a while. Then I bring myself back and go, "Hey what was I thinking about that for"?, That's not what this video is about! Tangents have pros and cons, don't they? 🙂
That’s a beautiful expression; agree with you!
Thank you, Jay! This video was definitely helpful to me. I'm hoping to grow a few more healthy friendships. The challenge is - I've gotten sucked in by covert and overt narcissists so many times, in my family and beyond, that I find it pretty challenging to risk making new friendships. But the good news is - I find as I heal past trauma in therapy that I tend to gravitate more toward people who are kind. I mean people with honest kindness who don't spend large amounts of time talking behind other peoples' backs about how bad those other people are. I feel safer and have more fun with people who basically enjoy and value themselves and others, who know that the inevitable storms in life aren't the total picture.
This video and the comments are so relatable. I also found for so long, the only way I could turn off this automatic attention to others and focus on myself was to be alone.
Thank you for this video and all the beautiful comments on this vid
So helpful, thank you! Yes, those types of relationships have been so exhausting. Sadly, it's all I know so I avoid ALL relationships. Logically, I know they're not supposed to be like that. I've been isolating until I find a better way. I'll look into imaginary crimes.
My 12-step meetings are places where I can go where people are taking care of themselves.
I was at a meeting with a friend, technically I was enemy camp. 🫢 I had just come away from relationship where my ex ruined our lives by being on drugs. Ok these are the people in recovery, some court ordered, but working on it.
I was THRILLED to hear names of books and speakers some followed in the self help arena! Same people I follow. It was very exciting to go back and forth with people that GET IT!
I don’t care how they wound up on that path, they’re trying to understand, fix and improve.
Thrilled me to no limit. With th ex, just lies, no accountability, blame shifting. It’s not that I don’t or won’t forgive, I just find progress a thing to celebrate!
I wish you well on your journey, and the others in your group. I’m proud of you from far away. You got this!
✨🥰✨
In my opinion, I don't think you've described narcissistic parents, in particular. There are parents that have other disorders or even difficulties that behave in the same way, depressed parents, with OCD traits, with borderline traits etc.
Those with OCD my be very careful, cautious and/or worried about many things. They may be hoarders, expect you not to leave the house etc.
People with borderline may never feel loved. They may have anger spurts, moments when they isolate themselves, become distant. They may be very needy, expecting the child to be like a parent to them or a lover or a caretaker. On the other hand, at certain times, they may become very apologetic, remorseful. At other times they may be very caring. There's an inconsistency there, and it can have high impacts, especially if those moods or emotions are very intense and the parent cannot "see" the child, essentially, as he/she is overwhelmed with his/her moods.
Narcissistic parents, in particular, are those that treat their child as an extension of themselves, but based on performance and image. They care about certain aspects, certain values that they have deemed to be superior and expect their child to adopt them, as-well. These aspects are more important than the child's emotional development or wellbeing.
They may enjoy having a baby, because it makes them look good, like a good mother or father. "Look at me! I am raising a child!". They may enjoy it when the baby giggles, as, again, it proves how great of a parent they are. "Look at how my baby is! He is ideal! Of course he is, as I'm ideal too!". However, if the baby throws a tantrum in public, making them look bad, they may slap him, when no one is looking.
The child must get good grades, must act in the way they want the child to act, share the same values, even be the same gender, if possible. They may hate traits they believe to be of the opposite gender.
When the child becomes an adolescent, all hell breaks loose. The narcissistic parent cannot handle a rebel. The parent himself is the forever adolescent.
Hell, my siblings & I were slapped with onlookers. Kicked like bad little puppies with observers.
So, now when the fairy tale doesn't make sense, it is somehow my fault.
I forgive the physical abuse. The tongue lashes and emotional mistreatment that now take center stage are driving me away.
@@DebbieLee-dr3hr I'm sorry :( I'm glad it's over now, at least. I don't know what to say. It's difficult for me to imagine what you've been through, to feel it myself... When hitting a defenseless child, you have no empathy... That goes hand in hand with narcisism
Thank you so much Dr Jay! I really appreciate your messages. This one in particular is really important. Often we’re drawn towards the familiar rather than what’s healthy
She was a single mother who, if wasn’t watching television while laying across the entire couch, cried loudly at night in the dark and told Amanda “your dad doesn’t love us”
Sounds like she grew up with a narcissistic parent.
😫
This is really just one aspect of "safe people", and relates more to covert narcissists. There are plenty more psychopathic narcissists who aren't using people for emotional support/don’t need supply in that sense but are still highly abusive.
“I don’t want you to worry about me” then proceed to be miserable when I said ok and left. - mom
It’s taken years to decode but I have made progress I think this next relationship will be an indicator if I have healed. I went through a lot of toxic codependency
You may want to pause; thinking that a ‘next relationship’ has the answer to tell you something about yourself sounds unhealthy to me.
@@Sparrow0514 relationships are the best teachers i think you may have misunderstood my intentions, i have been single for almost 3 years.
I asked a wise person once how do you know whether to keep giving money to someone in need, and I was told to watch the person once the money is handed over to see how they are managing it, also does this person keep coming back and asking for money all the time or are they finding ways and means to use whatever talents they may have to generate new income. This was something I experienced with a cousin who kept asking for help,but the underlying issue was that he preferred not to work and live off others. Definitely not a safe cup to be filling anymore. Thanks Jay 🙏Another in-depth and helpful video🎞📹Hope you and Brizo 🦴🐾🦴🐾have a lovely ⛵️weekend further✨🌈💫
@@kristahackleylmt2064 👍
to be fair most victims of abuse have a deep need people for people to show love to "fill up" their need to feel loved but that is due to the hurt they feel but they are not toxic, just need loved due to chronic lack of love for most (or all) of their lives
just because someone needs people to show love does NOT Make them abusive!!!
Jay, you hit the nail on the head...AGAIN
Thank you. Im graduating in psicology and im a survivor of severe narcisistic traumatized people that ended up passing their trauma onto me. Im healing and improving because of years of inner work and studying and then i found your channel. Thank you, you put this in such a good way that people can understand. I can never be too grateful for the souls that are on this path and are generous enough to help into freeing others. Only we know the darkness of being trapped in the view that a narcissistic parent have into us and about our worth.
Thank you.
Im from Brazil btw. Your help is reaching people in long distances :)
Its also compounded when a sibling is disabled.
"But of course I'll care for Nessa...
...
For I know that's how you want me to respond."
That’s right they’re self-content because they’re independent they fill their own cups self-reliance is innate they don’t have to feel victim they don’t have to feel insecure their strengths are the total opposite
😅 I took it literally. My narcs would always ask me to fill their cups to drink for them all the time coffee milk water... But the people who are safe not only never ask me to buy request I don't. It was hard to unlearn.
I'm so close to being healed from my covert narc mother at last. I'm 68. It's been a very long, hard road. My only remaining problem is that when I'm looking her in the face, I can't bring myself to be truthful. I've never told her thst she's abused me, I just keep my silence and endure. I just can't hurt her in any way. Weird!
Because you feel responsible for how she feels.
@@jenster29 thank you for seeing this. You're right. I've spent my whole life trying to control everything around her so she won't get angry. It's a seething malevolence, and terrifying.
Maybe it's because you know ....2 wrongs don't make it right. In other words, you aren't paying evil for evil!
@@TurtleHillTx I definitely don't want to be evil. I would like to be able to protect myself though. Tell her that her words hurt me.
You are a compassionate person. Good for you!
If a safe person does a favor for you or gives a gift, nothing is expected back. Also they never mention it to others. They don't need praise or acknowment.
Yes.... Yes.... and Yes. Need to heal from this.
I'm starting to wonder if my Mom is a narcissist. Maybe not a grandiose or even a high range, but possibly a low-range.
There's a reason why I tolerated the crap from my midrange covert ex-wife for so long.
Well I'm tired of taking abuse from anyone. I've been putting boundaries around everyone. My Mom accused me of being tired when I shut her down because she was doing these subtle little digs at me for not being good enough at something.
Nope my give a crap meter has just broken and I don't take crap anymore.
My mother was not a narcissist, but I definitely was the scapegoated child so I have all the characteristics of that child. But there is a fine line here and I DID manage to hook up with a narcissistic partner for 3 years and that felf normal in the sense that my needs were not respected or honored. I was not supposed to have any. That was the way I grew up. So that part of the relationship felt the same. Also, no time for me. That also felt normal to me. The gaslighting, that also felt normal. My mother was not empty inside though like my partner was. My partner was classic textbook covert narcissist. Nothing inside. A void. And I often saw glitches in the matrix of his persona he created. My mother, no. She was deeply wounded, and maybe narcissitic tendancies, but my partner was full blown NPD.
I have always believed in taking care of myself and loving myself because that’s where it starts when you love yourself when you think you are all you need it came from taking care of myself as a child. When both my parents were alcoholics both were narcissistic and they fought And never had time for children.. not only did I take care of my younger siblings I also took care of the house as I was the oldest daughter at eight years old nine years old 10 years old I was feeding the younger children who were six and two providing proper care, putting them to bed at night, giving them naps making sure they ate their dinner. I needed to take care of myself as I got older and I knew how to do that when I turned 17 I moved out and never returned home. I didn’t need to. I was a grown woman at 17. I knew how to do laundry. I knew how to cook. I knew how to clean. I knew how to work because I started working at 16 I had my own apartment, I was on my own. I am taking care of many people in my life my two children. I was a single parent and had no support in their father so I was on my own being on my own is not hard. I prefer it I can do anything I need to do alone. I mow my own grass. I fix my own roof. I have more tools than most men, including Skil saw and chainsaws and everything else I need if I don’t know something I learn it. If I need to know something I figure it out. I don’t rely on others, especially for love because I love myself. I am proud of who I am and I am strong enough to know that I am the best person I can be even if I have faults, even if I can’t do something even if I fall short, I am still, a great human being that is worthy of loving herself every day
This is pretty good. I'm now 30, living my life in opposition to my NP and the resulting trauma "Granted" by them.
It was so devastating when my mother told me as a teenager "I know you better than you know yourself". As if anything I ever did or was could only exist through the lens in which she saw it. When I got divorced, I was told "what have you now? nothing. who are you now? no-one". Like I was passed on from one narc to another. When I bought a nice home, she said I only did it to make my brother feel bad. When my kids got into ivy leagues, I only made them do it to "make myself feel good". I had to go no contact. The only thing is my kids still want to see her. I have to go with them because it's so destructive and I won't expose them to it alone. I always come away shattered.
Thank you for being there for your children. I will no longer put myself in the company of my elderly parents. My son and daughter are grown, and I trust they can hold up to alone time. But, I find myself doing less and less in regards to my mother, especially her. I will never supply her with anything except silence.
OMG ALL my boyfriends! I had to wait until I knew they didnt 'need' to be looked after before I could commit🤦 THANKS SO MUCH FOR EXPLAINING!! Narcissistic parents/siblings😊
Yeah, my soon to be ex wife was always getting me to fill her cup. About 8 cups of tea a day, I reckon. Seriously, I *know* she could comprehend how the kettle worked, because she made her own tea before we met, but it always had to be me doing it. I don't even drink the stuff.
I dropped a "friend" like this a couple years ago and I still have a hard time putting words to the intense anger I felt - I just knew it was justified. The narrative in my head after getting this guilt tripping response after saying no to an invitation was "Who the hell do you think you are in my life?" I just cannot imagine believing that I have claim to another adults time - we all have very little of it to go around. And here was this woman who was actually angry, and expected me to feel bad for "letting her down" - like she was a freaking 12 year old...I'm just baffled by people like this. I knew I was absolutely in the right, but the force of my anger and that I wanted nothing more to do with her puzzled me. This video helps break it down. I have had to deal with far too much of this in my life with family to volunteer my time with people I'm not even related to - and don't even particularly like. I cut off that friendship, and this woman continued to stalk me for the next two years. My instincts were one hundred percent correct.
This helped pay a foundation for me this morning that prevented me from leaving Self when the unhealthy person struck out today.
I slowly distanced from most family(people i want to love) after both parents died...now having some good contact with 1-2 siblings (using boundaries). Yesterday, i spent an evening out having dinner with a trusted friend. I felt alive, validated, cared about, safe and remembered what I need- is what's been missing.
that story about claire reminds me of a person who influenced me to expect more from my parents by how she operated. God bless her. I messed up with her, I miss her.
Good sign in people:
Mutual respect and encouragement(YES!) of boundaries
Mutually respectful interactions in general allowing for safe vulnerability (using vulnerability against one another is an absolute NO!)
For my vision board, I took notes of the 5 signs of a safe relationship AND paraphrased what made Claire such a good/safe friend. Thank you for helping me articulate this. It truly resonates!
augh. When I hear my story on this channel, I just cringe. I am not in a relationship until I feel like I know who I am and what I need. This is all new to me and feels weird but I will get used to it.
I especially love this post because oftentimes people aren’t aware that they are born into roles that the parent, siblings, and the entire family assign. It’s best to find the safe people around us and know that being around safe and unsafe people look, feel, and be like. Thanks for another insightful video! 💜
I didn't fulfill shit for the narc I lived with. If anything, I'm the complete opposite of what typical people become under narcissists. If I was obedient, it was to get my tyrant grandfather off my case. He specified the rules, we had to greet him in the morning, afternoon, and evening bc he was the patriarch. He didn't earn respect, he demanded its performance. No smiling or laughing was allowed, unless it was for him. If we didn't smile when we saw him, he'd have an outburst. No closing the doors to the bedrooms, no privacy at all. Chores & meals were to be done to his specifications. He beat us if we talked back or defied him, which I did alot. I refused to let him win, I hated him. And although I was combative, for the most part I was avoidant. That's the personality I ended up with. I just hid.... usually the bathroom or closet where doors could close, or in the basement which he avoided, mostly bc his obese ass hated stairs.
My proudest moment was during a beating, telling him that I'm not the problem - that he was the **common denominator** in all the fights & arguments. In between each slap, I listed each family member that abandoned him: "Your wife left you, your daughter won't speak to you, your sons only use you for money, even your favorite (my eldest brother) moved out to get away from you..." After my beating, he walked away and while cleaning the blood and his spit off my face, my mom had the nerve to shake her head & say "why did you say that, you went too far". My youngest bro ran in "what did you say to grandpa, he's crying". What a manipulative asshole, he snitched to my baby bro. I told him "Good, let him feel what it's like to be broken down". I never once felt sympathy. Eventually I escaped to an apartment, and took my siblings until they got on their own feet. I don't service people much anymore or fill their voids. I am unapologetic about fulfilling my own needs. I leave people alone, I do not burden them or impose myself in their lives. My siblings deserve to live a quiet life where they can finally breathe & not have to worry about me.
If this man has taught me anything, its to be suspicious of people who manipulate and are co-dependent. If anything, I'm completely untrusting. So maybe I'm the opposite extreme of those who acquiesce under narcisists. I have no patience for needy people or victim-addicts. I am a defender of victims, but I have a nuanced understanding between victims who genuinely want help and those who weaponize it. I want to be careful here, bc there are many who dismiss victims bc they fear losing some sort of power advantage. That's not what I'm talking about, but the moment I feel guilted or manipulated, I will still help a person but with a guarded skepticism. My help is freely given, I don't mind losing my time, but I can tell when they start using this same weaponization tactic repeatedly to get me to do things and that becomes the clarification I need to eventually avoid that person. My main flaw is I've become so avoidant of most people except my siblings (occasional), that I don't have friends or enough of a social life, which I do crave.
If they ask anything from you, it’s only advice never money or time or work or anything
Your doggie in the chair ❤ and my gosh, do you describe me and how my relationships were. Big emphasis on past tense! Thanks to much healing and recovery from amazing channels like yours.
Experiencing a conflict AND an attuned mutual repair attempt. I have a hard time navigating friendship as I believe I am a magnet for narcissistic relationships. Boundaries and workability are areas I work on balancing.
Now I’m not sure if my dad’s a narcissist, he never made me feel like I had to be looking at him at all times. He has made me feel scared of getting a boyfriend because he’ll get jealous and hyper critical.
It’s not a parasitic belief . It’s a parasitic reality. Not all reality but certainly a real one.
Good video by the way .
Wow. Good information. I listen to alot of videos about narcissist abuse- this really keys in on its effect on children.
I relate very strongly, unfortunately. I always feel i MUST ATTEND to whoever im with. My attention must go to them at all times or i will be af hurt or insult them in some way. Its fear based.
Its crazy and im going to practice not doing it anymore and, instead, deal with whatever feelings come up . Thank you for a great video.
Physiological safe people own their problems. This means 1st of all, they recognized their wrong personality traits on their own (people on their outside don't have to make big efforts for them to see them) & r wanting to better them. Also, what Jay said, " & dont feel entitled to others fixing what they feel inside." To elaborate, it is right to not feel intitled in some ways & amounts, but not others; also u should receive certain thgs from others, especially family members, like offering help to lean on & work against certain QUANTITIES of defects on ur personality/character, but not to the point of an abuser like narcisist & such.
Incredibly helpful, thank you. My mother and I suffer from my sister. This explained a lot.
you are a wonderful communicator, thanks for increasing our understanding!
Thank you so much for talking about looking away from the parent - it’s always been a huge problem for me as my parents both demanded that when they talked to me, I’d sit and look them in the eyes. My father would rage if I looked away even momentarily or looked less than fascinated with what he said. He demanded that especially when he berated me for hours and sometimes for days. I’m now a caretaker for my vulnerable narcissistic mother who stares at me intensely all the time, and often in quiet rage. Then I can’t look at her and I have to escape as quickly as I can. I feel that she’s trying to show me how horrible I am and it can be just because I didn’t show over the top excitement when seeing her.
Do you have any advice on how to handle her staring?
Thank you, Dr Reid!
THANK YOU , THANK YOU, THANK YOU. Mr. Reid, the video describes very well my childhood. After 30 yrs. of studying and trying to fix it I can accurately state that. I needed to hear it in this context. It cleared a lot of things for me. I also learned a few things. You couldn’t gotten here at a better time. Keep up the good work. May the Universe bless you!
Thank you. Happy sleepy doggy❤!
When you date an addict who can’t take care of themselves, they’ll feel entitled to you running their life for them And jealous when you do anything good for You.
All these situations stem from having had crappy parenting. It’s sooo hard to break the pattern but once you do, life is so much better. You only accept good treatment 🎉
My parents were wonderful, my husband has NPD/BPD and has caused all of these things for me as an adult. He’s in therapy now and we’re both recovering
What do you do when you are your narcissistic mother’s primary care giver?
I have always put my happiness first, 😊😊mumzie expected too much from me. When I became a parent I never required my kids to fill me up like that. I was tough as nails when I was one ys old, when I saw a woman who can't take care of herself or me. I'm grateful I forged ahead and played my music , never stopping . My anger turned to the arts to soothe me . 😊 My animals teach me what true love is.❤
Thank you, it’s explained very Well and I can so relate to my own upbringing ❤ Great to get This insight 🎉🙏🏻🙌