Which Elements of Warhammer Should we LEAVE in 2023?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ม.ค. 2024
- It's a new year, plenty of exciting hobby to look forward to, but what element of the hobby would you want to firmly stay in 2023 or throw in the sea! We asked our wonderful patrons this very question and Pat & Geoff discuss them. Will we throw your least favorite part of the warhammer in the sea? Let's find out!
Join our Patreon: / thepaintingphase
Merch: thepaintingphase.creator-spri...
Streaming: / thepaintingphase01
Help Support the channel with our affiliate links:
UK & EU: affiliates.waylandgames.co.uk...
UK: elementgames.co.uk/?d=10835
EUROPE: taschengelddieb.de/?affiliate...
US: use code paintingphase to get 10% off at www.goblinshut.com/
Gaahleri airbrush: www.gaahleri.com/?ref=Thepain...
We Print Miniatures: weprintminiatures.com/thepain...
THEPAINTINGPHASE for 10% off
Follow us:
/ thepaintingphase
/ __peachy_tips__
/ geoffsavory
/ pileofshamepaints
Where we get our music:
artlist.io/Patrick-75781
Contact us:
thepaintingphase@gmail.com - บันเทิง
The Old World is a specialist game so the scope will reflect that. Nothing wrong with RNF gameplay being supported again in whatever capacity and whatever focus they feel comfortable with.
why not make money from those old moulds for models people still love and a lot of them were actually quite new when fantasy was stopped, personally love the look of old fantasy more than a lot of AoS which has caught up with 40k in the number of just gunk on a model
Alot of TOW discourse focuses on "old players" completely forgetting the fact that there have been an insanely successful trilogy of games (warhammer total war) in that setting that are rank and file that players want to collect those armies and play the tabletop game too but havent been able to, we want it to be the actual full launch because not including any one of those factions in the game leaves a certain amount of money on the table and players out of the game. The whole "its just old people moaning about an old game" is just ... not true, its echo chamber nonesense imo
Even GW has admitted that the game is aimed at, and marketed to old dudes who already have a lot of stuff.
@@martinjrgensen8234 That's part of my point, even GW themselves seem to have put their blinders on with this, idk how they managed to forget the triple A trilogy of games that has raked in millions for them .... and yet
@@martinjrgensen8234 great, and GW also claims that w40k isn't a game , but a hobby. Doesn't stop whole countries to play and expect the game to be a game, and not something you collect, paint and maybe play once a full moon. GW still designs their games, as if the player base was a bunch of historical players from UKs 70s. Which it has nit been the case since mid 90s.
i mean i'm one of those players and i didn't have interest in getting any of the OW models or gw models in general until covid, and i still wouldn't get warhammer fantasy models majority are... so quite... 90's looking while this is subjective great paint jobs still don't make those models look as good as new models and even then how many people are great painters? And the rules seem complicated and the cost of entry is high. Id prob just play the games, and idk if while yes total war has rank and flank that many people would look at the tabletop version and say ya that's totally total war! There is totally some overlap but would it be big enough impact? HOnestly idk i hope so, because people like the game and thats a good enough reason for me to hope it continues to stick around but well see it is still early days
I never played the tabletop game and was curious. but once i saw the price and the terrible old models i shelved any interest.
Im really into The Old World, I hope it does good.
Im just waiting on the old orc boyz kit to be rereleased so I can buy a bunch and mix them in with my 40k orks lol, that said I also have a little WoC army I started to play 8th ed which im looking forward to building further.
Peachy, will you stand for this kind of Old World smack talk?!
The "discussion" is really one-sided.
@@MrLordi27 two 40k players walk into a bar in Karak Eight Peaks and complain that the decor isn't very Sci-Fi
They waited until I wasn’t around lol - peachy
Pat and Geoff, the classic painting phase combo
If MESB and Horus Heresy are successful enough for GW to sustain their existence, I don’t see why TOW would do much worse.
If this is sustenance, then what does neglect look like for you?
@@pbkobold I mean Heresy's had next to nothing hasn't it? All we got was 2 upscaled armour marks, heavy and special weapons squads, assault marines, Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, Thousand Sons and Space Wolves special characters, 2 Praetors, various resin consuls, new resin legion upgrades, Contemptor, Leviathan and Deredeo dreadnoughts, Spartan, Land Raider Proteus, Deimos Rhino, Whirlwind Scorpius, Vindicator, Sicaran, Venator, Kratos, Cerberus, Typhon, Sky Hunter jetbikes, 2 types of Predator and 3 types of Cerastus Knight.
@@sonicwingnut To be completely fair though, it makes sense for GW to come out with such a large amounts of new kits for a "rebooted" game system as Horus Heresy, since all kits can virtually be used by any of the factions in the game - although maybe not all of them would be in-character for all factions, and some kits would require a faction-specific upgrade sprue if you really like that kind of detail. Still a lot easier than launch such an array of new sculpts for ALL fantasy factions as from launch, which is unreasonable to expect IMO.
@@IAmTurbogfx oh definitely, I mean the abundance of tanks is clearly just because it's easy to create some extra sprues for existing chassis once the base rhino, spartan and sicaran models were out. And if I'm honest they could have done better with FAQs and game balance as well as bringing out those infantry kits a bit sooner. But on the whole it's a popular system and still has a lot of releases for it considering it's essentially a "specialist" game. Also unlike 40K kitbashing is actively encouraged so even if I don't have a plastic recon squad or Angels Tears I can build my own.
Tbh if GW want to re-release Warmaster a couple of years into TOW lifecycle I’m game
I absolutely love how all of your thumbnails and titles are deranged furious anger but then the podcast itself are the chillest nicest calmest people on the planet lol
Honestly, the only way to deal with the pressure of the GW release cycle is to disengage. It can be for a little while, or permanently - but the culture of constantly keeping up just doesn't exist outside of their ecosystem, so chilling out from GW for a bit is by far the easiest way to stop feeling that pressure. There are SO many other amazing games and IPs you can dive in to if you need a break, but the only way to get that break is to admit that you need one. If your finances and time can't keep up with the game enough for you to enjoy it, that's not the game for you... and thats FINE.
I don't play 40K these days... I have two armies, but I don't even close to have the time to work on them, or get games in, and when I do try to get games in, I don't have time to keep up with the rules changing so frequently. As a direct result of this, I discovered Infinity and Battletech, two games with tons of cool minis and lore, but both with reasonably static rules systems and much lower overheads in terms of model requirements and time investment. It's thanks to these two games that I get to still have a hobby, whilst engaging on my own terms.
I think a LOT of 40K players are probably struggling to understand that what they might need is just a little space from 40K.
I’ve also just got into Battletech for the same reason: it feels like the time investment is more worthwhile as I know it’s unlikely to change. Every time I play 40K or AOS I feel like I’m learning the rules again!
I wonder if they should have a tournament and casual version of the rules and lists - the latter having a long time between change etc.
@@arlandakhartan I don't see GW slowing down, it is revenue driven, they need the churn, constant change and new releases to push that demand into sales figures. Not too many other companies making tabletop wargames are listed on the stock exchange with all the financial pressures that adds onto the management for constant growth.
Loved this one gents. Good to see you guys just taking amongst yourselves. And Happy New Year!
As an old Fantasy player (from 3rd Ed all the way to 8th) I have a load of armies and all the rules but it's nice to see a new product being released. I'm mostly interested in the rules but it'll be nice to see some unavailable models being available again and the occasional new sculpt coming along. I also like how the armies are being released.
It's a niche product and that's fine. It's just nice to have it as a product that's available once more.
I'm also an old WFB player. What has me most hyped is the chance to buy miniatures again. The thing is if you want to play 40k 3rd ed you can and you can still get almost all the miniatures still butif you are a WFB fan no sorry there is the legacy kits which went over to AOS but good luck getting the square bases...
@@jamesmckeand5607 Haven't played WFB before, had always been on the fence about WFB, but I remember several times, finishing a Total War Campaign and going "Right, I wanna start a Bretonnia/High Elf Army", but couldn't. So the option to buy in again is really going to catch a few people, who've done the total war games, I think.
this is it getting access to the old sculpts without having to scour the second hand/recast market is the bonus here i would be happy if they just produced the models only for us to use with which ever older edition we want, but getting updated rules is bonus hopefully between us grognards and the people being brought in from total war is enough to sustain it and even push them to do more with it, plus always nice to have more minis that can be used for kitbashing for 40k/AoS as well
I'm not sure why TOW not having a full range refresh is different from each 40k new editions. Most people already have their army, most models stays the same, but it still sells well.
Give it time. I think GW has over reached its production capacity.
@@ironbomb6753 I totally understand, but Geoff and Patrick were surprised it was not a full range refresh.
@@martinteasdale542 Geoff and Patrick have been spoilt by a new edition of 40k and endless primaris lieutenants, but go talk to channels like SN and some of the guests they have had from other channels they will tell you 40k interest after 10th released is dropping dramatically. SN are at the point of stopping 40k coverage completely it's just not paying the bills anymore.
It will lol. This is GW we are talking about, once they stop release more space marines they will do it lol. All joking aside of course they will, You can't trust anything they say, if it sells well they will see those share prices going up and release the rest of it and claim it's "wanted by the community" or some other bullshit lol.
That was exactly my first thought too lol. They can barely keep anything they have currently stocked lol. I always wonder why people believe everything they are told by GW lol. @@ironbomb6753
Launching TOW with a completely new line-up of miniatures is completely unrealistic. It’s not what any miniatures developer is doing - new stuff gets released gradually. I can’t understand why you would expect otherwise or why only the contrary would get you excited.
100% it always struck me as odd how everyone seems to think TOW should only launch with 16+ full new ranges all at once whereas they are fine with 40k/AOS releasing books and armies over many years.
Yeah, it's obviously a shame that more kits aren't getting updated but between GWs logistical issues, the time it takes to design the minis and the success of games like Vermintide and the TW games (recent CA fuckery notwithstanding) doing it this way is basically the only way I can see it happening (and considering it appears to be massively outselling GWs expectations I'm guessing more support will be coming).
They announced it several years ago, that's more than enough for all new starting ranges for two factions, released in several waves. Most of those Bretonnian models are older than the majority of the fanbase. The knights are literally from the 90s. To be honest, I think it's kind of cool that the old models will be available again, but it goes a long way to show GW's lack of commitment to the product.
@@gavinmillar There's 9 different supported factions in TOW. It's effectively a niche game. I don't think people realize how much effort, time and cost it takes to replace all sculpts with new ones. They took DECADES to sculpt and release the range as it stands today, most of them which are still great IMO. What makes you think they are willing to take this huge financial bet on a game system that was not being successful in the past to the point they had to discontinue it? Besides, 26% if the Bretonnia roster is all-new sculpts upon release. That's huge, and even then part of the fan-base was whining and moaning about how they didn't like them, or that they were out of scale - without even seeing them in person. The way I see it, if there's enough demand for the game, eventually GW will get around to replacing all sculpts gradually, as is sensible. Flesh-Eater Courts had to wait 7 years since the launch of AOS before they got any substantial number of new sculpts - and they got some great ones recently. We really need to adjust our expectations IMO.
@@IAmTurbogfx Do fantasy fans need new sculptures? Isn’t everything new soulless 3D?
I hope The old World does well and that we also will se a re-release of some of the classic plastic dwarfs that we had in the old Warhammer Fantasy game.
When it comes to painting I think people must do it as they like it, fast or slow. It is a hobby, and it should be fun.
I just can’t fathom why GW doesn’t put an item up for preorder, let everyone who wants the item make said preorder, then go to the manufacturing section and say we need X amount of this item, once the preorders are dealt with they can then produce a second amount for retail stores etc to put on their shelves. It seems like such an easily solved problem and nobody needs to miss out.
Because then the time between sale and delivery becomes approximately 6 months, that's not something customers would like or the company could do sustainability. Manufacturing takes time.
I think the GW mono-pose models look absolutely great as display pieces, truly second to none. But to me, when they're part of a larger force the dramatic poses stand out awkwardly, especially when they are repeated several times throughout an army.
I see multi-pose kits the same as painting an army with a basic paint job that is applied consistently. It looks fantastic when it's all put together even though the individual models might not be the best painted.
the problem I found with multipart is that in RNF games it doesnt matter because you'll end up with a lot looking the same anyway. The ones that dont may look weirdly or unnaturally posed.
Found myself just nodding along to this episode for most of the questions. Very fun chat and well done to the Discord people for asking some fun discussion topics! :)
I completely agree about the meme lords. I feel like they mostly don’t actually know anything about the lore, at least on a deeper level. Like they’ll refer to Khorne like he’s just some big dude with anger issues, rather than some unknowable cosmic ball of emotion.
And I think Geoff is spot on that they are mostly people who don’t collect, paint etc and because they are just looking at the surface level at something they have a passing interest in they just boil everything down to its simplest most obvious parts.
We definatelly follow different sources when it comes to the Old World. Mine were all the rage about it, buzz non stop. And I nearly fell for the hype and nostalgia with Bretonnia. But everything was sold out after 2 hours 😂
Yeah it's clearly not going to do well 😂
Great video as normal lads great work. love hobbying away to your videos 😊
Happy new year guys and all! :)
I’d like to see:
Codex as a physical book with a code.
Distal only code.
Faction cards with a code.
Whoever asked that Forgeworld resin question was clearly and incredibly handsome, intelligent, and inciteful person! :P Glad Geoff agrees with me tbh. There is no other product out there that I would spend 3 or 4 figures on and not accept it being perfect. Can you imagine buying a £2grand TV and being ok that there's a dropped pixel?
As a New Zealander, I do appreciate the Question, and the Answer as well. The prices are, to be honest, naffing nuts, and it's very iffy on some of the older models on how much work they require, I remember my resin Vindicator being bad, till I pretty much boiled the resin shell and wrapped it around the plastic frame as soon as it came out of the water to get a good fit.
Luckily, most of the ones I pick up now are new releases, so are very new casts, and don't have many issues, but I have had to send in for replacement parts when one of my HH Thousand Son kits (was just missing a sprue), took a couple of weeks to get the parts (bout as quick as could from other side of the world), so at least customer service was good. Am tossing up if I get the new Thousand Sons Consul, nice model.
As a Mancunian I'd just like to say it's great having beach front property now. :P
Genius comment!
@@thepaintingphase I try 😁
There’s actually a beach in Salford 😂
love your content guys! keep doing what you're doing and happy 2024!
32:17 THE FORESHORE 😂 didn't expect my property law flashbacks to come up here. Great video guys, happy 2024!
Really refreshing to hear people talk about these aspects of GW and it not to descend into real negativity. Great to hear you guys chat as always.
I feel like Get in the Sea is the grown up way of saying go fish.
I personally put a lot of time into every figure I paint, because I enjoy the process - but I don't sit down at the computer and say "I need to find a video teaching me how to paint slower and more relaxed." Whereas a person who'd like to maintain more-or-less the same standard of painting but get finished faster *does* go looking for a video on how to simplify and accellerate their painting. So I'm sure that's a factor in why "Speed Painting Technique (TM)" is the most common subgenre of "how to paint minis" videos.
I've been out of the hobby (40K) since not long after 4th edition, having started during 2nd edition with og Necrons. Binging your podcasts has reignited my interest, and I'm now eagerly awaiting a Hierotek Circle Killteam set to arrive in the post. So thankyou you guys for reanimating this rusty Necron 🤘
Cheers lads 👍🏼
What Geoff was saying about how some memes sometimes have more of an impact due to the fact that people invest a lot in their army is VERY relatable. I have an ark army that have purple armour as I think that purple and green look lovely together. I can never post an image on reddit or in a Facebook group without the comment of "nice base but where's the Ork?" it was funny the first time but super tiring now, and kinda puts me off sharing them XD
I really enjoyed this episode, a lot of cool things discussed.
Oh, it is very much different here in the Northeast US (NY area). All everyone is talking about in GW land is Old Hammer. Legion Imperialis is forgotten about. And, yes, people are buying all the things for Old Hammer...books minimum, lots of boxed sets going out, in addition. Whether it lasts or not, yes, I think remains to be seen as with anything. But the hype and the purchases are real.
Praise the great algorithm. Thanks for the video!
Oooooh we get to see Pat's pins!
Oh, highlight of the week!
Looking slick Pat!
I know I'm a few weeks late but great episode. I think the increase in speed painting videos is interesting and it has a direct correlation to the output GW currently have with their models, or also the increase in new people getting started with the hobby who just want to play
Speaking of posable 3d printed models, Adamant Arsenal is doing a second Mecha kit right now, and he's come up with a rather interesting double ball joint that allows you to basically put the model together without gluing arms, legs and torso on, and then pose it like how you'd pose an action figure, and only then glue everything together. Doesn't matter what resin you're using to print the guys, 3d printer resin isn't designed for action figures, so you're gonna have to pick a pose and glue everything to that pose.
Or alternatively you could use an FDM printer to print the ball sockets, that way you could legitimately keep the guys as action figures. The whole set including stretch goals is 25 euros. Fucking brilliant value when compared to a lot of guys who'll make an STL set that's not even full models, just bits for marines and sell it for 60 euros.
Well, this thumbnail has all the intrigue.
**plonks squarely in the Watch Later pile**
Seriously, guys your thumbnail game is ace. Looking for are to finding out what the heck's going on when I have time later :)
So true, i love to actully hold the book, have it on my shelf and then its all the loré, but i still use the app for when we do games
for easy to build kits i tend to use the vallejo mold remover to hollow out the holes for the pegs (it tends to have the right size). no isue's since then.
Interesting take on the codexes. On the one hand, I do love the up-to-date rules you get through the app, on the other hand, I do enjoy to browse the codexes for the lore, color schemes, etc. I feel they should split codexes in two: one part with only the rules, and one version where you only get the lore and hobbying side. If you buy either, you get access to the rules in the app. So if you're not interested in the lore part of your faction (because you already have it in 9 codexes from the past), you can only purchase the rules. And if you purchase the lore part, you automatically get to play them as you get the rules in the app. This would also support in the people that don't have/want the app as they still have access to the book.
I can’t wait to get into old world, tho will wait for either goblins or elves to come out. Love the game format with block units, feels like a real old school battle. Guess it’s different strokes for different folks
Gw Sycophants definitely do exist lads!! Ive seen them in action 😂
For the subassembly dude - gorilla gel superglue works great if you’re careful and use small amounts, doesn’t tend to spread and move about too much
16:29 regarding competitive play and having to play good lists Vs playing for fun.
I always take a fun narrative army to games, rather than any sort of efficient/good list. The trick is finding joy in TRYING to win, rather than winnings. I view it like playing your favourite video game on hard mode, the odds are against you, and yes you'll lose a lot more, but the fun is the challenge.
The problem is that unlike a video game, where I can die and respawn every 5 seconds, a game of Warhammer takes hours. I get one game a week, and if I get dumpstered on the first turn, it's not fun for me or my opponent.
I don't find that GW's games have enough narrative hooks anymore for me to enjoy getting clowned on with a fun list. I don't get a psychic phase, I don't get to drop templates, roll artillery dice, etc. The game kind of boils down to trying to get the most effective dice math against your opponent, which is what X-Wing became shortly after it took off (and why it lost the casual crowd).
I appreciate and share your attitude, but I just haven't been able to capture that feeling in 40k since 7th edition. Certainly not compared to stuff like Rumbleslam, Arena Rex, Bolt Action or Malifaux, where you are constantly getting to do fun stuff even if you're not winning.
Multi pose vs monopose - I have > 120 Ork Boyz in the older sculpt. I have built the same model 6 different times with a different head. Poses are identical. I didn’t do it on purpose.
very enjoyable as always lads!
As an old Fantasy player I like that I can get what looks like a better rules set and then get my old armies out of the loft - so will buy the books but not the minis and have a few fun games and maybe an odd one day tournament - but hope it stays casual and people don't start screaming about 'meta' and 'balance updates'
Another cracking chat, gents!
When it comes to "monopose" vs. "multipose," I think the general gripe isn't being unable to pose models in different ways so much as having parts be interchangeable across kits without chopping, hacking, filing, and/or filling, and in a lot of ways, I agree with them on that point. That said, I do think "modern", mono-pose GW kits are far more dynamic and cooler than the minis of yesteryear.
Agreed. It's an issue I came across when doing Star Wars Legion, with their Clone Troopers. They all had different connector points for along the arm, some were shoulder, some were wrist, so switch weapons around so some guys carry Heavy Weapon and such like that was a real pain. I think as long as models have the same connector points along a range, or at least isolate important ones (wrist being one) so it's easy to chop and change, it's fine.
I feel like it doesn't lean into the strengths of the material. Plastic is nice to work with and great for conversions, and resin is not great to work with but great for fine detail (if you're good at it, which GW never was), as well as being cheaper and easier to cast in smaller quantities. I don't think it's part of some master plan on GW's part; they made a huge commitment to going all plastic via finecast almost a thousand years ago, and the quality of resin produced by competitors shot up during that time.
If they could make the decision again, perhaps they'd prefer to have more advanced resin production and continue with a mix of plastic for larger kits and resin for characters. They'd have more flexibility in their manufacturing pipeline and would probably suffer less from their current issues meeting demand. And if the improvement in resin casting had been boosted by GW the way they improved their plastic production, their resin could have been far better than anything currently on the market.
There are ways of managing to balance both - I'd say Necromunda is a good example of this, sure you might have five bodies for your gang but the arms and heads are all quite interchangeable and you can create some more interest by coming things differently to create interestingly dynamic models with a suitable level of variety.
No issue with Space Marines being poster boys. I do have an issue with Space Marines getting a disproportionate number of releases every year, when compared to other factions. We're on the 3rd iteration of scouts, 3rd iteration of Terminators. Theyve had a swathe of new units every year, even since 10th edition theyve had a bunch of new units and will be getting more. Meanwhile, we're still sat on the 1st iteration of Warp Spiders from 1994, 1st iteration of Wracks, etc etc. New releases for Necrons in 10th were a couple of characters, AdMech got a single character unit. Theres already 2 new units for Dark Angels - another flavour of Marines. And we're pretty confident there will be similar for Blood Angels, Space Wolves etc.
I think its that part of the "poster boy" position people are frustrated with
As someone who got into Fantasy via Total War I am very happy to have the Old World released but I do recognise that some of the sculpts are lacking in this day and age.
Also very sad to see my beloved Dark Elves not getting support :'( Malekith shall not forget such a slight!
Buy Dark Elves, Use them as High Elves, vast majority of units have direct analogue.
Buy Dark Elves, use them as Dark Elves, vast majority of community will have zero issue & will cheer you on.
@@GrarlTheExaltedthis. I’ve bought an AoS seraphon army and I’m running them as Lizardmen. Enjoy your hobby!
If you're not into tournament play, I reckon you could still fashion yourself a beautiful Dark Elf army and have fun with the pdf rules. If you are into tournament play, we'll have to wait and see but I can imagine you won't be alone in wanting to play along, and I would not be too surprised if local tournament organisers would allow those factions into their leagues.
@@GrarlTheExalted that's great to know thank you :)
Expecting TOW to have a completely new range of miniatures is wildly unrealistic. Even 40k releases don't refresh more than 20% of any existing army, and that's for the most profitable mainline game by GW. TOW is a niche product and as such seems to be outperforming initial expectations, at least if we look at the pre-orders and the fact that the first official battlereport on youtube is approaching Leviathan's view count.
But you don't start a new edition reboxing 35 year old molds at top boutique price...
@@VirakotxaThere is a thing called inflation. Expecting the minis to cost the same as 15-20 years ago is folly. Some are even cheaper. The Ushapti are cheaper, the Tomb Guard are cheaper.
@@martinjrgensen8234 Not judging how well you're doing, but if the price hike of GW's plastic, for the last twenty years, was into everything else, starvation would be a serious concern.
The absurd profit on their side can sometimes be justified by the better quality and detail... (For an addict) Not here...
@@Virakotxa I'm not a fan of the increasing 3D 'detail' on newer GW figures, extra detail is fine if you are painting a single figure but it just adds loads of time when army painting and that detail can't be seen from 2-3 feet away on the table anyway
The physical book thing gets me too. I really want a physical book to help me digest the rules, so I tried to buy the mini rulebook fromm GW, but their website was broken.
The Canadian media rule is due to cultural erosion from the US. For reference, Canada is half the population of the UK, and the US is over five times the population of the UK. So we get a lot of cultural bleed-over from the US. The rule for Canadian produced content helps to stop us become US-lite (this coming from a Brit who emigrated to Canada and didn't understand why it was done this way at first).
Ive watched 25 mins of this and had 4 ads for domino's pizza THAT CAN GET IN THE SEA
The production law in Canada also exists in Australia (for broadcast media). The new Canadian law brings online productions into line with their broadcast law. That's why you find a lot of the big Sci Fi TV series are filmed in Vancouver.
Not gonna lie but that thumbnail looks like a video titled "40 years of warhammer, a hobbyists journey from his youth to his later years".
From manchester, the weather was dreadful, where we were it had a "tornado" hit. Seriously was on the news, shooketh!!
Hi Patrick, you got a link for the resin you spoke about? Interested to give it a try.
Wargamer resin from "yes that's 3d printed"
GW Killa Kans are also a ball and socket design. They were designed that way due to having plenty of options, both in terms of rules and models and the bits from that kit are also fully interchangeable with the Deff Dread kit.
(The rant.............. And so it begins.....)
That idea of interchangeable parts was the bedrock of all Ork kits from around 4th edition to 7th edition and actually pre dates it to 3rd edition when the multi part Boyz kit came out. (We now have a slightly changed version of that same kit)
The Shoota Boyz and Slugga Boyz, Lootas, Burna Boyz, Runtherd, Stormboyz and Mekboy can all be kit bashed without any chopping of parts.
The same can be said for any Boy model that came on a Bike, Battlewagon, Trukk, Deffkopta, Stompa, Gorkanaut or Jet kit.
That same pattern was followed with the interchangeability of parts in the Nobz, Flashgitz and Meganobz kits.
That level of kit bashing was so easy and fun to do even for beginners. Just throw all of your bits in a box and have at it.
That in itself surely adds value? Creativity? Extra fun?
It was promoted by GW, encouraged by White Dwarf and embraced by the community.
From roughly 1999 to 2017 that was the norm and that was the culture of the Ork hobby community.
It was very unusual to see any two Ork armies looking the same and new players were encouraged and helped to do it.
In 2018 all of that changed with the release of the Buggies.
All monopose, no options, little to no left over bits, unfinished sections underneath the buggies. Hell, even the Ork heads between each kit were deliberately made with different sizes and styles or had different connection points. :/
Next came the Beast Snagga release and the current Combat Patrol.
Little to no options in many of the kits, monopose, models sliced in really awkward ways, forced load outs that don't make any sense.
Less and less options in kits and rules.
Now I see plenty of Ork armies looking exactly the same with multiples of the same unit and I also see the Ork hobby community embracing those changes and in turn making Orks of all things just as regimental as any other army.
It is coming from both directions. New GW kits and tournament play.
Lore like ''No two Ork vehicles should look the same'' was known by all Ork players for years and has quickly been forgotten.
I can see where the monopose VS posability debate with Marines could be seen as a moot point due to the nature of many Marine armies, but that same argument with Orks is totally different because for years we were actively encouraged by GW to kit bash and create models that GW had rules for, but didn't make mini's of.
GW encouraged us via White Dwarf articles, stories and rules to loot and kit bash other ranges into the Orks.
GW gave us pages full of weapon options to choose from, knowing very well that we had a bits box full of left over parts, so it didn't matter if that weapon didn't specifically come with the unit we were buying.
GW would give us tons of extra bits and bobs to mix and match and we rarely ever needed instruction manuals or a hobby knife.
Did some in the community take it further with hobby knives, plasticard, toys and historical vehicles? Yes, but the entry point for a custom unique army was very small.
GW made all of that the norm, only for them to change it and act like it wasn't ever a thing.
And now people are wanting new models regardless of the downfalls of the kit itself.
I recently put together the new monopose Boyz kit from the Combat Patrol....... omg what a chore on so many levels.
Do they look nice? Some of them do and some of them don't, but receiving a couple of nice Ork Boyz only to be given a weird forced weapon load out that I've never seen anyone use, half a Nobz face is missing, no extra Boy heads and the kit itself goes together pretty horribly and you are basically forced to use the instructions due to the slicing of the models.
After that experience I didn't want to make another 10 and struggled to get anyone to buy my last 10.
I have never had that same negative building experience with any other Ork kit, including the metal, finecast or FW ones.
To make it worse, GW have since released those new Boyz in a Battleforce and possibly again shortly in an upcoming box.
I have a ton of converting and scratch building experience, but even I don't want to work with that kit again.
The new Mega armoured Warboss has no options at all. The leader of the most unique rag tag faction is the same from army to army and it doesn't even have rules to use something different.
The pattern continues.
No doubt that will be the direction of a new Killa Kan kit and that direction is personaly draining all the love I had for something from 1999 til now.
The limited rules and options was one thing because we could always get around that with model creativity and a bits box, but limited bits within the recent kits are now making bits boxes less of a thing and that is yet another part being ripped out of the Ork hobby community and yet another part contributing to many Ork armies looking the same.
It isn't just a monopose VS posable thing for me.
It's a less bits for your money thing, it's a change a community overnight thing, it's a less options and rules thing, it's a less creativity thing.
It's promoting something totally opposite to what drew me to that army in the first place. It's night and day really....
The Canadian law that scuppered WH+ was actually a language bill. Under this bill, any commercial service available in Quebec must be available in French. For whatever reason, WH+ and/or the app does not satisfy the qualifications of the bill. It's weird because WH+ is kind of a streaming platform, kind of a gaming app, and kind of a marketing device, but for whatever reason, because it's not French enough, you can't subscribe here.
FWIW Canada does have laws re: broadcasting content that a certain amount has to be of Canadian derivation. I think this law was first brought into effect out of concern that local Canadian broadcasting would be simply overwhelmed by American content.
Can I just say - having joined in the era of the powertrio - that this duo setup was really enjoyable as well, for a different energy. Would not mind if this turns into a regular format. (still love the Peach, no worries 😂!)
Could you share a link to Fauxhammer's resin guide please?
I can see myself picking up the Old World rules and both of the Army List supplements but tbh, I'll probably use Kings of War minis with the odd GW splash. Other than those rulebooks I don't need anything more from the game.
Controversial, I know, but it's a huge bugbear of mine: I mostly disagree on the Forgeworld resin. Everyone loves to complain about the price and the quality, and... I mean, I don't disagree that they're costly and a pain to build compared to styrene, but to an extent that's also just a fact of life with resin kits. The question generally isn't whether you could get these kits more cheaply, but whether they exist at all. Resin has much lower setup costs than styrene but much higher labour costs because it's basically impossible to automate. According to your own previous interview, that's why Finecast was so rubbish: they tried to speed up resin casting! There's been some QC issues in the past, and there's inherently going to be more problems with big wide flat things like you find in tank kits. Things like swords warping are unavoidable, if you don't want to deal with that then just don't buy resin, but personally I'm happy that we have the option to get some of these more-esoteric kits.
But the bottom line is that if you're asking for resin to be as cheap and problem-free as styrene, then you're asking for people to be dramatically underpaid. If you accept the prices GW charges for their excellent styrene figures, then the prices they charge for Forgeworld resin are honestly actually pretty good in comparison.
I am glad memes can stay lol But, I do I think certain ones can get in the sea especially the ones about hiding what you buy or how much you spend on wardollies from your partner. FOMO can get in the sea. I think GW could do a better job of addressing pre-orders and re-printing stuff. However, there is nothing stopping you from painting up what you already have and just enjoying the hobby for yourself and not getting as caught up in the new shiny stuff. 2024 enjoy hobbies for yourself and be less concerned with how others want to enjoy theirs :)
As much as I dislike GW's FOMO policy, and honestly in my opinion it's not just them doing a "bad job" with printing stuff and warehouse organization but simply the way they intend to do it (just my thought of course), it's actually helping me painting a lot of stuff that I still like and has been sitting there for years. I have a lot of very old models that I love and not getting new stuff (because sold out in 2 hours) made me look at them again and I became thrilled to paint or re-paint them... so, FOMO is actually good for me in an unexpected way lol
More into 40k but I love the old world and Warhammer Total War series. There's just something about ranks upon ranks of units marching to battle that just looks incredible, makes AoS looke like a skirmish. I hope it works out but they probably need to drastically simplify the rules. One further point - it's unrealistic to expect a range refresh on that scale for a brand new game when they can't tell if it will be a success or not (rightly, by seemingly most comments). If it is a success, they'll support it and update, but you can't expect entire ranges of new models for all armies on launch
The difference is that for AoS miniatures are important, but for ToW models they are just wound tokens, and a unit is one creep. This is why many players cheat with fillers.
And one more thing: a battle is not a parade; in real history, every formation broke down quickly and turned into a dump.
As havoc photo, thanks for answering my question but even moreso, thanks for telling me WHY those damned split content tiktoks exist! I've always wondered whats going on there
The stock situation is not good. So wanted to get into Imperalis and an intro day at my LFGS on the 26th of this month. Because there has been next to no stock since release date, I can't even build a force in time for the event. Not great for a new game system.
Wild take on TOW there fellas 😝
Honestly a lot of my painting videos are very close to real time. I try to edit to make it quicker but still racking up at least 30 minutes to paint one mini. Another great video guys. GET IN THE SEA 😂😂😂
Yea I’m with y’all on the let’s keep monopose. Haha I actually love when they’re fully built already. I print fully built models and love it. I like that Dave’s Ravaged Star has fully built models. They just look good!
The Canadian thing is partially because you need Canadian content, but mostly because Quebec forces French content, which there is none on Warhammer+
Exclusive store minis do my head in. I live in a town and the nearest GW is 60 miles away. If GW wants them to be exclusive then by all means first make them store exclusives, then 6-12 months later do a made to order run on their website. But once that window is done it is done.
I had to listen I thought your clip was saying Old World goes in the sea. I was worried I could not watch you guys anymore. 😢😢
no one thought they would do a plastic baneblade or stompa until they did, I reckon we'll get plastic titans eventually
What could have been a negative or defensive episode as usual turned out to be a well-balanced discussion as usual. Favourite takeaway Marines and Stormcast being basic :). I could have a whole list of personal dislike to get in the sea, but you know what can get in the sea, believing our individual views should be the whole of the hobby. If we allow ourselves to enjoy what we like and ignore the rest, it really does improve the hobby (learned from personal mistakes). Plus seeing what others are doing regardless of personal interest can open so many cool ideas and experiences
Take the old world, in my view it's a revamp of a system that is showing its age (playing the old versions recently) while other games do rank and flank so much better. Also, such a missed opportunity to grab total war fans and others into rank and flank gaming. However, we will see a lot of cool hobby and great armies produced and may get some stunning new models so it's not for me but it's not a bad thing.
With the monopose thing, my experience probably comes from a rare point of view (maybe) of just wanting cool looking minis regardless of gameplay, but monopose limits the loadout of what a model can have
The models I have in mind with the problem is death guard: most every model and every piece of the model is near unique, so combining the 2 unique arms I want is most likely not the intended arms to fit the model.
On the other hand, making drukhari scourges let me do that, with all the wacky weapon combinations I wanted (like the longest sniper and a whip)
I understand why GW wouldn’t really care about this viewpoint as it discourages the initial purpose of the model- the gameplay.
But that’s just my 2p worth
It seems like yous are having a typical scottish summer with this weather.
GW's insane pricing. I get that inflation is a thing but their price hikes have always outstripped inflation. Honestly its put the breaks on me buying kits I want to fill out my Necromunda, 40K, and AOS forces.
Speaking of negative Nancie’s…. I thought you were going to be interviewing Northern Exile when I saw your title of this episode was “Get in the Sea” :D 55:19
Could have been worse Geoff, i got stuck in Aberdeen by weather 😆
For me the Old World is the chance to get into WFB in the first place, as i was only playing MESBG and 40k when it was supported, and I didn't get a chance to play before it went away. I always loved the lore and the world itself, but with ebay as my only source for old minis and books, just having it be possible to buy off the peg (🤭) from GW again is a massive bonus - I'm here for it!
Patrick, is Fauxhammers resin water washable though? Cracking video chaps.
Yes, water washable
You’ve inspired me to try doing a 12 hour stream painting one marine 😂
I've only recently started playing 40k, I used to think that the books were over priced and that mobile rules were better.
But after getting into Kill Team and using the online rules for chaos Legionaries and the Compendium/ year 2 rule book I'm 100% pro codex books. Constantly having to open my phone and scroll on a small screen compared to just having the 5 pages infront of me was the nail in the coffin.
My online gripe Is that they should be cheaper then the current retail prices, but you can always buy from another retailer or pre owned.
Old world should have been rules and army index book (like ravening hordes).
If that took off then an index 2 including a limited selection of new units and minis.
Only then should it have gone full throttle
it's hardly full throttle, a rule book, two indexes with 4-5 armies each, two small army books for the release day army boxes, some dice and cards, two new minis over two armies, and a bundle of old models that they have moulds on the shelf for. There's a chance those new models had already been designed before End times brought the end of WHFB
Tbf spending money on anything I don’t build within a month and start painting within two needs to head for the life aquatic ASAP. I’m gonna get through the sprue pile before another penny gets spent.
For me Legions Imperialis can get in the sea along with The Old World - no offence to the people who like them but it feels like GW's stock issues are bad enough without adding entire new game systems into the mix.
That said, Arbites Exaction Squad is in stock in a few places online right now! Most of the other "rare" Kill Teams are available too. Although I regret not getting one of the other Kill Team boxes as I want a full set of boarding actions and the other half as a Kill Zone is like £90.. might as well buy a full set.
On that note GWs terrain pricing can get in the sea.
Not a miniature related hope, but I wish Creative Assembly would get their shit sorted this year and make good new content for Total War Warhammer again.
I would argue the Gravis Captain has been the first primaris unit to be refreshed. The original Gravis Captain from the 8th edition starter kit (which honestly looked kinda bad) is now unavailable and looks quite different to the current Gravis Captain kit imo 🤷♂️
Damn! You’re right.
I think the free rules/codices/etc. point Geoff made about Infinity is even more interesting than he mentioned, actually. (And I listened to this while painting an Ariadnan Strelok, so I was thinking of it before he said it.)
Corvus Belli puts the rules out for free - both a PDF and also a really thorough cross-linked wiki full of examples and so on; they have a comprehensive army builder online that also provides all the stats for all factions (even out-of-print ones), also for free. If you're happy proxying or using card standups and never attending a tournament, you can play Infinity without giving them a penny (and you should, although the minis are fantastic so you'd be missing out). In fact, the only thing you're really required to pay for if you want to access it is the fluff - the online rulebook just has the rules, but if you buy the hardcopy you also get a big background and timeline book, and there's periodic storyline/fluff update books that are only available printed.
But the upshot of this is that the Infinity fluff just generally feels less accessible than the 40k fluff. I own the background books for the current and previous edition (and the second one they did in the previous ed.), one of the storyline update books that particularly concerned the faction I play, and I still feel like I know more about space marines and eldar despite not having played 40k for years. I probably don't, actually, but it feels like it - and I think the way GW more or less forces you to buy chunks of fluff as a entry price for playing the game actually really helps keep people engaged with the setting. I could cheerily talk to you for a while about why I chose to play Ulthwé and not Biel-tan or Iyanden, but I honestly don't have much of an attachment to Invincible Army over Imperial Service or White Banner other than just that the units I like the minis for are in it.
The app issues is simple IMO. They should adopt a credit system like Audible. Get one credit on starting the subscription to unlock a faction with the app. Then every 4 or 6 months gift an extra credit to the user. If they want to purchase another codex then they can and unlock it as normal. That way the mega nerds with loads of armies can pay for the flexibility, but a person with a casual one army can get their book "free".
Alright lads. We missed Peachy but still, Geoff and Pat chat is a welcome treat in the ol’ TH-cam feed 🤝
"Happy new year, we fired Peachy!" - Me, after watching 10 seconds. ;)
Down side of relying on online apps for points, etc, is that when the app becomes unsupported for whatever reason (eg, when GW comes out with the next version of 40K a decides to drop support for the last version even if you don't want to upgrade) then you pretty are stuck.
This to an extent happened with X Wing. Points moved on to an app, and now is all over the place. I have a lot of X Wing miniatures, and think we have played 1 game in about 4 years (and on that we ignored points as just introducing someone to the game)
I 100% agree with FOMO getting straight out of 2024! I was hung up wanting to get into the Old World but I don’t have the capacity to start fresh in a new expensive game right now, but seeing everyone putting in their pre orders just makes me feel completely left out and I hate it! I’ll lean into my new Cities of Sigmar army! Here’s to a better 2024!
Buy some movement trays and use 'em as empire! 😎
@@Raygun9000 that’s a great idea!
@@VentiChristopher you don't necessarily need square bases on your models. But it might be worth making a scenic front rank in square bases so you can match your opponents bases.
*Good luck!
While I do enjoy a good monopose miniature, I find some of the snap-fit kits a bit of a pain due to the tolerances on some of the rods/holes making it tough to get a good fit without either adjusting the pieces (which then requires glue anyway), or leaving some big ol' gaps. A relatively minor quibble, but with parts warping being a thing, I'd like to see either a different solution for snap-fit, or just make them glue-dependent.
But, I do love monopose. Especially for rank'n file Oldhammer. When those early multipose kits started coming out, I absolutely hated having to carefully position each clanrat's arms to be able to rank up properly while keeping the bases flush in a movement tray. Having a couple, like, weapon options is nice, but posing each individual mini in a unit, especially for horde armies, is just a monumental timesink. And it does mean we get some absolutely beautiful poses for the current releases - often moreso than would be possible with a standard multipose kit unless you're converting anyway.
I just had to assemble a bunch of Spirit Hosts and I would like to formally retract my statement regarding snap-fit
As someone who has been continuing to play Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition since it was discontinued, It's not about having a complete range refresh of new models. It's just great that I'll be able to buy additional units for my armies without spending hundreds of pounds on eBay. It's also nice to know there's new rules/content being made for the game I enjoy.
I am really excited for the Old World but some of the model pricings are insane (Metal Yeoman Command for example). Another thing that frustrates me is there are no free indexs or free rules in a pdf online. I know GW wants to push book sales, but if 40k and AoS can do it, then we as a community should expect it as well. I will be holding off any purchases for now until Dwarves releases.