Best keyboard reviewer on TH-cam, it's criminal he only has 28k subs.... no hype, no clickbait, no paid reviews.... just good crisp voice and intelligent commentary.
ShoelessJP what, you don’t like thumbnails of people making wacky faces with big font video titles? You don’t like useless 2 minute intros or 5 minute outtros saying “like, subscribe, and CLICK THE BELL OR ILL STARVE”?
He's good but can't touch type (yes a keyboard guy) and therefore doesn't touch ergo keyboards, by far the most innovative / exciting area (eg Ergodox EZ) and by far the most efficient typing method.
I couldn't agree more, though I admit I love the feel and sound of a Topre switch if I need quiet. The price and difficulty in getting them in the configuration I want though, nevermind.
@@anasevi9456 Well what are my other options if I want topre, wanna keep the keyboard wireless, and don't want a gigantic surfboard of a keyboard on my desk. My options are pretty limited. I can go for a topre clone like a NIZ, but come on that is not the same.
I've been enjoying your videos for forever but I don't think I've ever commented. Your videos are so far above the rest, I can barely stomach 15 seconds of "WHATS UP GUYS" on other keyboard reviews before I have to close the tab. Your videos provide actual valuable insight and alternatively serve as a gentle lullaby for a restless soul. Its like a slow jam for keyboard enthusiasts. Keep it up
It is brilliant. I regret selling mine now that I can get a Hasu controller that makes it totally programmable. I had a black one with blank white keycaps. The loud spacebar was a bummer though also.
depends on the stabilizers. you can try to re-set the spacebar to fix it. i was able to fix it for only the right side, which works fine in practice since i press space with my right thumb. i tried many times and could not get it to fully unrattle for all over though. if you take off the key and tap on the stabilizers, you can determine which side is the trouble spot. my left stabilizer rattles from all angles, so i can't really fix it without doing anything invasive.
@@mescellaneous You could try to lube the stabilizer. Tahea Types has a great vid on lubing, band-aid modding and clipping stabilizers. It's, of course, if you're willing to take the keyboard apart.
Luckily they fixed this on the new line of hybrid keyboards that came out this year and all the stabilized keys sound great. Just ordered a Professional Hybrid last night and I’m so excited to try it :)
The weight is actually such an important factor for me! I take my HHKB pretty much whenever I know I'm going to have time to do some work so not having to carry around a nice (but heavy) custom is really good. Plus topre is the only tactile switch for me, just wish I didn't prefer linears
Great review - as usual...In my book you´re on a roll with these reviews of most popular, most used, highest rated, most sold, newest, most expensive, or whatever they are called. And I like my book! Thomas you probably are the meter in keyboardland. So everybody listen up!
To me, the best rubber dome keyboards were Maxiswitch from the early 90's. They were rock solid, used everywhere including customized for phone systems (I swapped thousands of keycaps for them), and easy to fix when some secretary spilled her tea in one (take it apart, rinse off the rubber mat with all the domes, dry thoroughly, use alcohol pads on the circuit board, yer golden).
It is hipster twaddle, 60% keyboard that is cost reduced from typical Topre. If you have to have Topre, because in my own experience they are actually nicer to type on than Chinese clones due to the latter's abhorrence of ABS plungers; get a Realforce 108 RGB. The hipsters utterly revile them for hipster reasons, and they are still ignored by gamerbrahs.. so they often go for "cheap" brand new compared to other Topres.... $180-200usd
I don't have an HHKB, but the 60% layout is my favorite just because of the space saving aspect. Gaming on a small layout is handy for allowing a larger area for mouse movements. It is a pretty niche aspect, though, and I'm not sure that's why most people go for the HHKB. At this price, though, I'd rather build my own with silenced MX switches and a full bottom row.
Naughty internet person I've use both tkl and 60% keyboard extensively and they're definitely has their use and are definitely not useless. It might not fit your use case, but calling it hipster shit is just stupid and ignorant. Personally unless I'm doing office work and have to input large amount of number ie. excel, I'll never use a full size keyboard. moo: TKL give you a standard layout keyboard without the right numberpad side that's right in the way of your mouse. That's the perfect compromise for most people. Saying it has no advantage over full size keyboard is stupid.
I fell in love with Topre switches after buying a Realforce RGB and putting PBT caps on it. My next board will be a JP layout HHKB Pro 2 that I will pay entirely too much for.
@1:00 Indeed, such small keyboards with space left unused for keys is quite an absurd choice. In my opinion way too expensive, suboptimal design, and for me such spacebar would be a dealbraker on its own. The bottom mat ought to be sold as a cuttable sheets of different sizes for keyboards in general regardless of model.
Thank you I was interested in this keyboard because of its aesthetic value but learned important stuff about it from this video. Thumbs up~ Soothing voice too!
Thanks for the review! I use an HHKB Type-S constantly (it’s my favorite keyboard) and am always happy to see a well-done review whether it’s positive or critical. Hey, why not hear a different viewpoint? For me, the layout works really well, and I typically remap other 60pc keyboards to use some of its ideas (eg, ESC/tilde, Caps/Ctrl, backspace above enter) but I guess it depends on the user. I found switching to a PBT spacebar rather than the included ABS one made it sound better; it looks like that’s already been done to at least one of the boards in the review.
Sound profile-wise for some reason I prefer un-silenced Topre over silenced, yet for Topre clones like NiZ I prefer their silenced versions over... well... pretty much most keyboards I've tried. Muffled deep 'thock' sounds are just so awesome.
I was unconvinced until bought a (unsilenced) HHKB Pro 2. I absolutely love it, it's the perfect keyboard to take to and from the office. Mine has a Hasu USB controller (reprogrammed to work perfectly for what I use it for), and some aftermarket resin modifiers keys (just for fun). Haven't fitted the dampening mat as I have a full size desk mat on my desk. It's just so satisfying to use, the stock Topre switches although much lighter than what I'd typically build an MX-style switch with, are extremely comfortable. I also got used to the layout very quickly and do find it rather intuitive - I don't do any coding or programming, or anything that would require any overly specific keys or layouts. Fortunately I bought mine almost new in the box etc for ~£160.. Plus the controller and caps, it owes me round about £200, a price I feel it justifies.
Very interesting. My Type-S' Space Bar is VERY silent. Then again, mine is from 2019-04, so it got manufactured last month. Overall an immensely silent and extreeemely pleasant typing on compared to my other two, regular HHKB Pro 2s from 2011 and 2012.
Pretty sure type s space bars are silenced, they just lack lube. When you lube the stabs on the underside the spacebar becomes extremely quiet. Could be wrong though, I've never bought a type-s, always go stock then do the silencing mods myself and lube the board at the same time.
Yeh! unfortunately all topres are all the same, hence why every topre board I own (which is a ridiculous amount now) have all been ripped apart and drenched in lube around the spacebar stabs. Sounds godly after that. Though recently I've been using a lubed up BTC after seeing your typing video and I love it as much as topre, but for its tactility as opposed to smoothness.
@@wobbled6560 If you like the BTC domes, you might well like the Light BKE redux domes (they might as well be called BTC redux domes really). Combines the best of both worlds!
If you get a chance you might enjoy the Hybrid Type S. It addresses many of the issues mentioned, most notably the super loud spacebar in the previous version. The new Hybrid actually sounds very very close to the demo you did with the foam dampening mat attached.
I personally don't understand the hate for Topre switches. I work in an office with 10 other individuals, and after receiving negative feedback bringing my Filco MX Blue, I realised I needed a better alternative. I wanted the solidity and consistency I like in high-quality keyboards and switches, while not bottoming out loudly like seen in most mechanical switches. I compared a Realforce 104U Silent with a Leopold MX Silent Red and though I was impressed with the Silent Reds, they ever so slightly mushier than the Silent Topres. I brought my Realforce to work and never got a single complaint, even after setting a new PB of 137 WPM (average ~110), while surrounded by everyone else. All current high-end mechanical switches have their place, including rubber domed Topres (not mechanical) but I think haters of Topres just look down on it just because they think only loud mechanical switches are the way to go, especially when and if they are cheaper than rubber domes, rather than actually looking at the purpose and utility of the switches.
James Chan Topre is great but it’s just kind of silly expensive. I mean, I use Topre, but I equate it to buying yourself an extra nice shirt or pair of shoes. You don’t NEED it, but it’s a little nicer and makes you feel a little better when you use it. I just wish it wasn’t so difficult to test it out without spending so much.
Imo the spacebars are really a letdown. The sound levels have definitely dropped but the spacebar rattle still makes a considerable amount of noise that it will still make me hesitate to use in quiet conditions....
@@Chyrosran22 How very strange. Again, my Type-S' Space Bar sounds nothing like in this video. I have a buttery smooth experience with ALL keys, including the Space Bar. Produced in 2019-04, so last month.
Topre is pretty nice overall I would say, in fact using one such board now, but I'm not sure if it would make my top 5. Probably not. Still I recommend getting one, so you can just forget about dome boards, since Topre is more or less the best a rubber dome is ever going to be.
Frankly, I still don't understand why people like topre so much. Hell, I'm typing this out on a Realforce 86u, in an aftermarket case, and I still don't think it feels that special. about the only thing i can really give Topre any real credit for is that the round sliders make for an incredibly smooth feel compared to most other switch designs' rectangular construction. Beyond that, I don't think they even feel all that good. :/
Invidious Ignoramus different strokes. I love silenced Topre for work, but use custom mx based designs at home for gaming. If you took both away I’d be fine, though.
Excited to see this overrated keyboard taken down a notch with great panache. I loved that the first criticism made was about the wasted space, which I've always hated about mine, but nobody else seems to usually care about.
Yonder Bagel it IS incredibly stupid and hipsterish to just not have keys there. Plus I still don’t understand the hate for the windows key, it enables tons of shortcuts, and I have literally never hit it by accident. I think if you can’t control your fingers well enough to not smash random keys, then just disabling or removing the windows key isn’t going to help you.
I know this is an Old video but do you know where to get those silencing mats? or at least what they're called really i wanna have my keyboard being sticky on the table but don't wanna use the rubber feet because they make the board more clacky instead of sthocky
They are Japan-exclusive, which means that you have to buy them with a proxy service if you don't live there. I use ZenMarket and they have always been great, but maybe there are cheaper or better ones. PFU's site is www.pfu.fujitsu.com/direct/hhkb/hhkb-option/, scroll down and find the "keyboard mat" section. You can order from their site, or you can also find links to amazon.jp on the product pages too. All other official HHKB accessories are available here too, like the different cases, keycaps and wristrests. IIRC you can also find cheaper aftermarket silencing mats on amazon.jp. Hope this helps. :)
Great video as always Chyrosran. I'm curious why the BKE Redux domes are your ultimate recommendation? I got a New Model F77 and F62 a few months back, and since the F62 came with blank New Model F keycaps I had to use Unicomp keys on the F77. SInce the New Model F keycaps were a bazillion times better, I forced myself to type on the F62 and fell in love with the 60% layout. Thus, for a silent option, I'm considering a HHKB to fulfill that void. So do the BKE Redux domes really stand out? One thought I had (given the F62 switches are about 55g) is to go with the 55g Topre option, as I think 45g would probably be too light. My current silent option has been a Black Alps board which I believe are about 75g, and I actually type fastest with those. Anyways, if you read all of this thanks you're a champ!
@@Hammid I'm 7 months late but definitely DO NOT get the hhkb professional lite, they don't have topre switches and are just normal membrane keyboards and feel like shit. If your gonna spend that money just get a normal mechanical keyboard.
Suboptimal design... that's just your opinion man. I've tried many 60%, 65%, 75% keyboards, and nothing beats HHKB in terms of the layout. Everybody bitching about lack of keys in the bottom row, and on windows keyboards you have 2 keys which you almost never use (alt gr, and that menu thing, I don't remember haven't used traditional windows PC in a while). Fn key is placed perfectly and usage of other keys with it are totally natural. I am planing to get full sized keyboard but I will probably go with Realforce. But I know I can slip my HHKB into backpack, it weights almost nothing, it is quiet, and I can use it in any place. Plus quality is top notch I have to say. Keycaps are really nice, everything is buttery smooth. Expensive yes, overpriced probably, but best out of the box experience I've ever had in terms of keyboards (Leopold comes close but not quite. I think only Realforce could rival it, which I plan to get, but it feels different than HHKB).
If any *nix/ guys curious about this layout in full-size or clicky options, I use a Sun type 5 at work. It's a rubber dome full-size but they go for like $20 and I needed something quiet for work. Unicomp still offers the Sun/UNIX layout for their "Spacesaver" Model M, this is what I use now at home (loud) and it's a bit over $100 after shipping. I find emacs-style keyboard short-cuts to be a bit more tolerable with this layout and the esc is closer to home-row for changing modes in vi
I have this weird old 60% keyboard I picked up on craigslist for $20. It has some sort of slider at least and has model number HP E2610A. I can't actually find much information about it. Was wondering if you knew anything about it. It is a completely strange layout, and while I suspect that it is dome with slider, it feels rather nice to type on. It reminds me of the old Packard Bell but is more tactile and less gritty.
Oof, that space bar... I mean I know the stabilized keys, especially the space bar, are pretty noisy on all stock Topre boards. Although given the huge increase in price between a regular HHKB & a Type-S you'd figure they could spare an extra silencing ring per board & put some lube/grease on the stabilizers.... 🤯
Hello Thomas, I unfortunately have not found a recycling center with any mechanical keyboards. I visited 3 today and did not find any - however, I did find a nice pair of Sennheisers for 20 bucks at Goodwill. Where do you usually look for mechanical keyboards? Do you purchase them online, or do you look at local waste recycling plants?
I used to find everything at recycling centres, nowadays I'm mainly dependent on donations. The key to finding keyboards at recycling centres is to keep coming back, and to make them SAVE the keyboards for you. Any single time instant will almost never yield anything. You need bulk before you can get good results ;) .
@@treeleaf6471 I'd just drop by regularly. It shows you're committed, too. Besides, you can sift through it all and maybe pick up something they missed ;) .
Wow, that spacebar is a huge oversight. And I can't deal with the lack of separate cursor keys at a minimum, the other extra keys I don't' care so much about like PgUp/Dn etc. But yeah, for my silent keyboard I'll stick with my vintage Sun rubber dome for now, thanks (under $100 on eBay). I'm no cheapskate, I blew the budget on a Wooting One for my gaming rig and couldn't be happier with it, but it is a loud one so my work machine needs the silent treatment.
More on sorbothane, turns out to be the best schock absorbing material bar none, quite fascinating, better than rubber and neoprene, plus it is also very durable. Sounds exactly like the ideal material for those tiny dampening pads in some silent keys, also ideal for dampening o-rings. Wondering how come this material is not being used in keyboards yet. As far as I know there is no keyboard part using this
Does not seem to be too expensive a material, also it is allegedly relatively easy to manufacture. Patent held by the company Sorbothane in the USA, but the material was invented quite a few years ago though, just saw a very old-looking video about it here on TH-cam. In my opinion sorbothane-dampened keys and keyboards should definitely exist among the ultimate options. Engineering/manufacturing differences aside, this material would offer the absolute best possible dampening/schock absorption for sure.
@@Chokkan Example of sorbothane price: 10 x 10 x 6.35mm thick pads, two of those can be purchased at Amazon.de for €21.47. Judging from that, end consumer cost of 1 cubic cm of sorbothane can be about (correction) €0.16 : www.amazon.de/Sorbothane-30-Duro-dicke-2-pack/dp/B005JRN9WU/ref=lp_4641442031_1_1?srs=4641442031&ie=UTF8&qid=1542459930&sr=8-1
Not my favorite for a couple good reasons 1. I don't care for 60% keyboards 2. It's way to quiet for me I love that clicking sound a good mechanical keyboard makes and don't want any silencing rings
Would you be interested in trading your fullsize Realforce in exchange for black tenkeyless elite keyboard version? Quick edit: Just noticed you're not clicking the spacebar with your index finger. Good progress. It only took you a billion years!
I actually had no idea the spacebar was like this... I had a Type-S in JIS layout a few years ago, and the smaller spacebar didn't exhibit any of these issues. I kind of miss it (although I would consider my 55g Realforce in a Norbaforce case a significant upgrade). Definitely really quiet though.
My HHKB spacebar doesn't sound nearly as loud as this. Edit: I tried it without the external coil spring and yes it is louder, probably because I'm bottoming out harder.
You could also add a Hasu controller for 50 bucks for full programmability. You could also lube it. I've done all those things to my FC980C and yeah, it gets expensive.
I think you're the only channel in favor of redux over stock domes. Every review i've seen on them people have said they're a bit too tactile for them. I can tell they definitely sound better, but not sure how I would like the tactility.
From what I understood from the comments over the years, I'm "the only one to" many things xD . Maybe the others just don't really like tactile switches ;p .
@@Chyrosran22 your channel is quite large compared to most keyboard review channels. sure its smaller than most tech channels, but they praise everything no matter how overpriced and shit the products actually are.
After reading some more about sorbothane, it seems to have a consistency/feel/damping quality similar to meat. If that is not the case for that pad, must be some other material
I've lubed the shit out of my spacebar stabilisers and it's pretty quiet now. Thankfully getting to them was pretty painless as the screw holes aren't covered up by anything. But yeah the ease of taking it apart aside, that shouldn't even be something you'd have to do at this kind of price.
I love the hhkb layout, but that spacebar is awful. Especially for that price. @chyrosran22 - have you reviewed the Rama M60-a? With Holy Pandas and bandaid modded stabs, you might even come to like the hhkb layout
the stock type s in my opinion sounds like one of those old membrane keyboards u would get in school while the matted type s sounds like a sound of linear switch with a small tactile bump
I have too always thought that the spaces on the bottom row even if they look cool (or at least different) are a poor design choice, especially considering that they had to split the right shift to put an FN key, and that there still are two "super" buttons (command on mac and the useless win logo on windows). The control placement seems less than optimal too to me, especially for the usual combos ctrl+c and ctrl+v, but maybe it simply is a layout targeted to mac users. What I find strange is why it is seems to be so common, being for a niche within a niche within a niche: for mechanical keyboard people, that use mac, that are willing to spend a lot of money (ok, the last two are generally the same thing!), that want a 60% keyboard with not standard layout.
@moo There's nothing wrong with ctrl instead of caps lock, it's just that to me it seems silly to waste space removing the two corner controls (that to me have the most accessible spot), and put them instead of capslock. I find that the capslock can be more useful as a FN button, or as a backspace as is used on colemak. As far as windows keys, I use them only for shortcuts, so if I have two of them one becomes an FN and I keep the other, if I have a keyboard without them I can easily live having them under a second layer! And I can still open the start with ctrl + esc anyway! Not that I use it often, my brain (like most) works using images, so I prefer distinguish programs based on their icon. I keep all my most used programs on the taskbar, and the less used ones on groups on start. I don't know anyone who uses the start buttons!
moo control on home row is not objectively better. The fastest typists use caps lock instead of shift. Just depends on your usage. I fully agree about windows key though. People who deride it just don’t know how to use it.
Don't get me wrong i like the idea of topre, but for far less money you could buy a a CM Storm Devastator or A Razer Cynosa for about 45 US DOllars then lubricate the sliders with mineral oil for 75 percent of the feel of Topre for far less money. Scorpius Dome with slider is also a good alternative if you can get your hands on it.
@@julian23561 Had no problems so far I have A Devastator 1 which i lubricated and a 3 which i didn't. It made the switches a lot quieter as well. And for like 40 bucks ill take the risk
Yeah no way I'd drop nearly $400 USD on a keyboard made entirely of plastic and with such a limited layout. Also silencing rings similar to the ones in the type S can be had for around $25USD from KBDfans. Personally I don't understand the point of them to begin with as IMO Topre is plenty quiet just in its stock state, my RF is already much quieter than any of my MX keyboards.
Would you recomend a RF? I want a topre board, but am split between the classic RF, the RGB (just cause of the mx sliders, rgb is not my thing), and the new R2.
I have the regular professional 2. I lubed and silenced it myself. Also changed out the stems to cherry compatable. It's honestly one of my favorite boards. overpriced, yes. But the things you can do with one is honestly worth every penny. Truly no other typing experience like topre. Especially lubed topre. :).
I just picked one up, lovely keyboard, love the sound and feel apart from there's a scratchiness to some keys I can't explain. Does lubing eliminate that sensation?
Best keyboard reviewer on TH-cam, it's criminal he only has 28k subs.... no hype, no clickbait, no paid reviews.... just good crisp voice and intelligent commentary.
ShoelessJP what, you don’t like thumbnails of people making wacky faces with big font video titles? You don’t like useless 2 minute intros or 5 minute outtros saying “like, subscribe, and CLICK THE BELL OR ILL STARVE”?
Thanks for the compliment :D .
Amen
... and some decent, well-deserved invective from time to time.
He's good but can't touch type (yes a keyboard guy) and therefore doesn't touch ergo keyboards, by far the most innovative / exciting area (eg Ergodox EZ) and by far the most efficient typing method.
The best anti-hyper keyboard reviewer on youtube reviews the most hyped keyboard in the community.
Should be interesting.
60% ish keyboard+Topre, holy christ talk about a hipster cyclone.
I couldn't agree more, though I admit I love the feel and sound of a Topre switch if I need quiet. The price and difficulty in getting them in the configuration I want though, nevermind.
Seb E Topre 40% when?
@@anasevi9456 Well what are my other options if I want topre, wanna keep the keyboard wireless, and don't want a gigantic surfboard of a keyboard on my desk. My options are pretty limited. I can go for a topre clone like a NIZ, but come on that is not the same.
I’m not gay, but this man’s voice is sultry and sexy.
you dont have to be gay to enjoy his exquisite voice
It's fake
"I'm not gay"....
lol
@@peterboil4064 Is that something like “I’m not a racist, but...?”
@@phototristan its not
I've been enjoying your videos for forever but I don't think I've ever commented. Your videos are so far above the rest, I can barely stomach 15 seconds of "WHATS UP GUYS" on other keyboard reviews before I have to close the tab. Your videos provide actual valuable insight and alternatively serve as a gentle lullaby for a restless soul. Its like a slow jam for keyboard enthusiasts. Keep it up
Thanks mate :) .
Thank you for making this review! This video is one of the reasons I bought the HHKB, and I'm ABSOLUTELY loving it right now.
The aesthetic of this things just cool as hell. I was intrigued after seeing some super clean desk setup pictures with the hhkb
It is brilliant. I regret selling mine now that I can get a Hasu controller that makes it totally programmable. I had a black one with blank white keycaps. The loud spacebar was a bummer though also.
Advice for future people: getting one part of a nice desk setup will not make your desk look that good, doesn't mean it's a bad product though.
It's a bit odd that they went out of their way to make a quiet keyboard, and left the space bar to be loud AF. Kind of defeats the purpose actually.
Hmm… My Type-S' Space Bar is extremely silent. Perhaps they've revised mine, as it's from 2019-04.
@@Hammid yup mine isn't loud at all either
depends on the stabilizers. you can try to re-set the spacebar to fix it. i was able to fix it for only the right side, which works fine in practice since i press space with my right thumb.
i tried many times and could not get it to fully unrattle for all over though. if you take off the key and tap on the stabilizers, you can determine which side is the trouble spot. my left stabilizer rattles from all angles, so i can't really fix it without doing anything invasive.
@@mescellaneous You could try to lube the stabilizer. Tahea Types has a great vid on lubing, band-aid modding and clipping stabilizers. It's, of course, if you're willing to take the keyboard apart.
Luckily they fixed this on the new line of hybrid keyboards that came out this year and all the stabilized keys sound great. Just ordered a Professional Hybrid last night and I’m so excited to try it :)
"...they're both loud as fuck." Such a classy delivery. Great reviewer. Earned a sub!
Love the addition of the amplitude from each of the switches. Keep up the great work. ❤️
This is the one we've all been waiting for.
I literally subscribed to this channel hoping he'll eventually review HHKB Type-S and Realforce with uniform weights. Halfway there.
fr. had my type s from the start
What. why.
I love the typing sounds, thumbs down for the video!
Not all, and not me for sure. This layout is just ruins it all imo
The weight is actually such an important factor for me! I take my HHKB pretty much whenever I know I'm going to have time to do some work so not having to carry around a nice (but heavy) custom is really good. Plus topre is the only tactile switch for me, just wish I didn't prefer linears
I never clicked on a video so quickly, but I can’t say no to quality keyboard reviews
You made my buy one of those new Model F... I hope you are happy now!
He made me buy one of those old Model F. ;-)
tell me that is just for collective purpose. Yes it is a very good KB, hell no I won't use it in modern real life.
@@rokuplex4800 heh heh I often use a model F at work. It's my office.
how was it i just ordered one
Great review - as usual...In my book you´re on a roll with these reviews of most popular, most used, highest rated, most sold, newest, most expensive, or whatever they are called. And I like my book! Thomas you probably are the meter in keyboardland. So everybody listen up!
To me, the best rubber dome keyboards were Maxiswitch from the early 90's. They were rock solid, used everywhere including customized for phone systems (I swapped thousands of keycaps for them), and easy to fix when some secretary spilled her tea in one (take it apart, rinse off the rubber mat with all the domes, dry thoroughly, use alcohol pads on the circuit board, yer golden).
I am genuinely intrigued by Topre and Topre-S, but HHKB has always struck me as hipster twaddle. The spacebar will get you lynched within a day.
I don’t like HHKBs or the prominent branding. Really, my dream topre keyboard would be a TKL that sounds like an HHKB along with nissho hipro keycaps.
It is hipster twaddle, 60% keyboard that is cost reduced from typical Topre. If you have to have Topre, because in my own experience they are actually nicer to type on than Chinese clones due to the latter's abhorrence of ABS plungers; get a Realforce 108 RGB. The hipsters utterly revile them for hipster reasons, and they are still ignored by gamerbrahs.. so they often go for "cheap" brand new compared to other Topres.... $180-200usd
I don't have an HHKB, but the 60% layout is my favorite just because of the space saving aspect. Gaming on a small layout is handy for allowing a larger area for mouse movements. It is a pretty niche aspect, though, and I'm not sure that's why most people go for the HHKB.
At this price, though, I'd rather build my own with silenced MX switches and a full bottom row.
Naughty internet person
I've use both tkl and 60% keyboard extensively and they're definitely has their use and are definitely not useless. It might not fit your use case, but calling it hipster shit is just stupid and ignorant. Personally unless I'm doing office work and have to input large amount of number ie. excel, I'll never use a full size keyboard.
moo:
TKL give you a standard layout keyboard without the right numberpad side that's right in the way of your mouse. That's the perfect compromise for most people. Saying it has no advantage over full size keyboard is stupid.
oops skipped over that. sorry = )
This channel suddenly becomes my most favorite!
My favourite part of this very informative review is the random, surprising and excellent swearing you do
The HHKB PRO2 is THE BEST keyboard I've ever used. And you have access to all kinds of special symbols immediately with certain key combinations.
The blank type S with silencing mat sounds so dope.....
I fell in love with Topre switches after buying a Realforce RGB and putting PBT caps on it. My next board will be a JP layout HHKB Pro 2 that I will pay entirely too much for.
@1:00 Indeed, such small keyboards with space left unused for keys is quite an absurd choice.
In my opinion way too expensive, suboptimal design, and for me such spacebar would be a dealbraker on its own.
The bottom mat ought to be sold as a cuttable sheets of different sizes for keyboards in general regardless of model.
A 12 year old design still being sold at a premium price, impressive!
Thank you I was interested in this keyboard because of its aesthetic value but learned important stuff about it from this video. Thumbs up~ Soothing voice too!
Thanks for the review! I use an HHKB Type-S constantly (it’s my favorite keyboard) and am always happy to see a well-done review whether it’s positive or critical. Hey, why not hear a different viewpoint? For me, the layout works really well, and I typically remap other 60pc keyboards to use some of its ideas (eg, ESC/tilde, Caps/Ctrl, backspace above enter) but I guess it depends on the user. I found switching to a PBT spacebar rather than the included ABS one made it sound better; it looks like that’s already been done to at least one of the boards in the review.
Sound profile-wise for some reason I prefer un-silenced Topre over silenced, yet for Topre clones like NiZ I prefer their silenced versions over... well... pretty much most keyboards I've tried. Muffled deep 'thock' sounds are just so awesome.
I was unconvinced until bought a (unsilenced) HHKB Pro 2. I absolutely love it, it's the perfect keyboard to take to and from the office. Mine has a Hasu USB controller (reprogrammed to work perfectly for what I use it for), and some aftermarket resin modifiers keys (just for fun). Haven't fitted the dampening mat as I have a full size desk mat on my desk. It's just so satisfying to use, the stock Topre switches although much lighter than what I'd typically build an MX-style switch with, are extremely comfortable. I also got used to the layout very quickly and do find it rather intuitive - I don't do any coding or programming, or anything that would require any overly specific keys or layouts. Fortunately I bought mine almost new in the box etc for ~£160.. Plus the controller and caps, it owes me round about £200, a price I feel it justifies.
Very interesting. My Type-S' Space Bar is VERY silent. Then again, mine is from 2019-04, so it got manufactured last month.
Overall an immensely silent and extreeemely pleasant typing on compared to my other two, regular HHKB Pro 2s from 2011 and 2012.
Agreed it’s expensive but I like my type S. As always, great video review. And that voice... buttery smooth.
Pretty sure type s space bars are silenced, they just lack lube. When you lube the stabs on the underside the spacebar becomes extremely quiet. Could be wrong though, I've never bought a type-s, always go stock then do the silencing mods myself and lube the board at the same time.
Oh, I'm sure they use silencing rings just like the other switches, but I meant secondary silencing measures :) .
Yeh! unfortunately all topres are all the same, hence why every topre board I own (which is a ridiculous amount now) have all been ripped apart and drenched in lube around the spacebar stabs. Sounds godly after that. Though recently I've been using a lubed up BTC after seeing your typing video and I love it as much as topre, but for its tactility as opposed to smoothness.
@@wobbled6560 If you like the BTC domes, you might well like the Light BKE redux domes (they might as well be called BTC redux domes really). Combines the best of both worlds!
At this price range you should not have to lube mod yourself, at least Leopold does a better job.
What exactly is matted? I like the sound and the feel but I don’t want to pay that price so I’m trying to replicate on a custom mech.
What is the color of the silenced Topre switches? are they purple?
If you get a chance you might enjoy the Hybrid Type S. It addresses many of the issues mentioned, most notably the super loud spacebar in the previous version. The new Hybrid actually sounds very very close to the demo you did with the foam dampening mat attached.
Give me the days when offices rang with the sound of typewriters and solenoids. That's the sound of WORK getting done.
Ok boomer
@@Rasyad95 Xer
@@matthewhall6288 we don't even work in office anymore and you still replied this lol
I personally don't understand the hate for Topre switches.
I work in an office with 10 other individuals, and after receiving negative feedback bringing my Filco MX Blue, I realised I needed a better alternative.
I wanted the solidity and consistency I like in high-quality keyboards and switches, while not bottoming out loudly like seen in most mechanical switches.
I compared a Realforce 104U Silent with a Leopold MX Silent Red and though I was impressed with the Silent Reds, they ever so slightly mushier than the Silent Topres.
I brought my Realforce to work and never got a single complaint, even after setting a new PB of 137 WPM (average ~110), while surrounded by everyone else.
All current high-end mechanical switches have their place, including rubber domed Topres (not mechanical) but I think haters of Topres just look down on it just because they think only loud mechanical switches are the way to go, especially when and if they are cheaper than rubber domes, rather than actually looking at the purpose and utility of the switches.
James Chan Topre is great but it’s just kind of silly expensive. I mean, I use Topre, but I equate it to buying yourself an extra nice shirt or pair of shoes. You don’t NEED it, but it’s a little nicer and makes you feel a little better when you use it. I just wish it wasn’t so difficult to test it out without spending so much.
@August Canaille I simply cannot use dampening bands. They ruin the travel distance and is way too soft and mushy.
We have a guy at our office who types in Cherry Greens, but he's jacked, so we let him do whatever he wants... Now it makes sense that he uses Greens.
Imo the spacebars are really a letdown. The sound levels have definitely dropped but the spacebar rattle still makes a considerable amount of noise that it will still make me hesitate to use in quiet conditions....
It seems like such a silly oversight. Any designer wirth their salt should know the spacebar requires some extra attention.
Chyrosran22 especially on a THREE HUNDRED DOLLAR keyboard with a less than 60% layout. Sheesh.
I recently got an hhkb type-s made in 2018, and the spacebar is louder but no where near as rattly as the one you have in your video.
@@Chyrosran22 How very strange. Again, my Type-S' Space Bar sounds nothing like in this video. I have a buttery smooth experience with ALL keys, including the Space Bar. Produced in 2019-04, so last month.
Accidently typed HHKB, miracle happened
Topre is pretty nice overall I would say, in fact using one such board now, but I'm not sure if it would make my top 5. Probably not.
Still I recommend getting one, so you can just forget about dome boards, since Topre is more or less the best a rubber dome is ever going to be.
The blank keyboard here with the white, blue and red, is the sexiest keyboard ive ever seen in my life.
Wait why do you sometimes space with your thumb and sometimes your index finger?
Frankly, I still don't understand why people like topre so much. Hell, I'm typing this out on a Realforce 86u, in an aftermarket case, and I still don't think it feels that special. about the only thing i can really give Topre any real credit for is that the round sliders make for an incredibly smooth feel compared to most other switch designs' rectangular construction. Beyond that, I don't think they even feel all that good. :/
Invidious Ignoramus different strokes. I love silenced Topre for work, but use custom mx based designs at home for gaming. If you took both away I’d be fine, though.
Excited to see this overrated keyboard taken down a notch with great panache.
I loved that the first criticism made was about the wasted space, which I've always hated about mine, but nobody else seems to usually care about.
Yonder Bagel it IS incredibly stupid and hipsterish to just not have keys there. Plus I still don’t understand the hate for the windows key, it enables tons of shortcuts, and I have literally never hit it by accident. I think if you can’t control your fingers well enough to not smash random keys, then just disabling or removing the windows key isn’t going to help you.
Yeah I've never understood why it isn't offered in just a standard 60% ANSI layout.
I know this is an Old video
but do you know where to get those silencing mats? or at least what they're called really
i wanna have my keyboard being sticky on the table but don't wanna use the rubber feet because they make the board more clacky instead of sthocky
They are Japan-exclusive, which means that you have to buy them with a proxy service if you don't live there. I use ZenMarket and they have always been great, but maybe there are cheaper or better ones. PFU's site is www.pfu.fujitsu.com/direct/hhkb/hhkb-option/, scroll down and find the "keyboard mat" section. You can order from their site, or you can also find links to amazon.jp on the product pages too. All other official HHKB accessories are available here too, like the different cases, keycaps and wristrests. IIRC you can also find cheaper aftermarket silencing mats on amazon.jp. Hope this helps. :)
Would the mat do much difference if you have the KB on a desk mat/xxl mousepad?
Great video as always Chyrosran. I'm curious why the BKE Redux domes are your ultimate recommendation? I got a New Model F77 and F62 a few months back, and since the F62 came with blank New Model F keycaps I had to use Unicomp keys on the F77. SInce the New Model F keycaps were a bazillion times better, I forced myself to type on the F62 and fell in love with the 60% layout. Thus, for a silent option, I'm considering a HHKB to fulfill that void.
So do the BKE Redux domes really stand out? One thought I had (given the F62 switches are about 55g) is to go with the 55g Topre option, as I think 45g would probably be too light. My current silent option has been a Black Alps board which I believe are about 75g, and I actually type fastest with those. Anyways, if you read all of this thanks you're a champ!
wow this guy's voice is amazing... Barry White voice confirmed.... dude you should be on the radio or something...
I would really like to see a budget option from them, in that price point I can get myself a nice HHKB Tofu.
So you totally haven't noticed the Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional Lite 2? :D
@@Hammid I'm 7 months late but definitely DO NOT get the hhkb professional lite, they don't have topre switches and are just normal membrane keyboards and feel like shit. If your gonna spend that money just get a normal mechanical keyboard.
Suboptimal design... that's just your opinion man. I've tried many 60%, 65%, 75% keyboards, and nothing beats HHKB in terms of the layout. Everybody bitching about lack of keys in the bottom row, and on windows keyboards you have 2 keys which you almost never use (alt gr, and that menu thing, I don't remember haven't used traditional windows PC in a while).
Fn key is placed perfectly and usage of other keys with it are totally natural. I am planing to get full sized keyboard but I will probably go with Realforce. But I know I can slip my HHKB into backpack, it weights almost nothing, it is quiet, and I can use it in any place. Plus quality is top notch I have to say. Keycaps are really nice, everything is buttery smooth. Expensive yes, overpriced probably, but best out of the box experience I've ever had in terms of keyboards (Leopold comes close but not quite. I think only Realforce could rival it, which I plan to get, but it feels different than HHKB).
If any *nix/ guys curious about this layout in full-size or clicky options, I use a Sun type 5 at work. It's a rubber dome full-size but they go for like $20 and I needed something quiet for work. Unicomp still offers the Sun/UNIX layout for their "Spacesaver" Model M, this is what I use now at home (loud) and it's a bit over $100 after shipping. I find emacs-style keyboard short-cuts to be a bit more tolerable with this layout and the esc is closer to home-row for changing modes in vi
The matted keyboard has a beautiful sound, but the price... And your right about that bottom row, the space does seem wasted.
The keyboard sounds like it's purring with the mat underneath...
So expensive
I have found that you can get decently priced HHKB's on the Japanese ebay sites like Buyee.jp. I believe the last one I bought was $150.
i think the silencing mat sounds really good
One of the best sound of keyboard , just for that i want to buy one of this
But 200$ is too expansive for me =(
What's the larger sized keyboard at 1:45?
I have this weird old 60% keyboard I picked up on craigslist for $20. It has some sort of slider at least and has model number HP E2610A. I can't actually find much information about it. Was wondering if you knew anything about it. It is a completely strange layout, and while I suspect that it is dome with slider, it feels rather nice to type on. It reminds me of the old Packard Bell but is more tactile and less gritty.
What modern mechanical switch do u like
Oof, that space bar... I mean I know the stabilized keys, especially the space bar, are pretty noisy on all stock Topre boards. Although given the huge increase in price between a regular HHKB & a Type-S you'd figure they could spare an extra silencing ring per board & put some lube/grease on the stabilizers.... 🤯
Hello Thomas, I unfortunately have not found a recycling center with any mechanical keyboards. I visited 3 today and did not find any - however, I did find a nice pair of Sennheisers for 20 bucks at Goodwill. Where do you usually look for mechanical keyboards? Do you purchase them online, or do you look at local waste recycling plants?
I used to find everything at recycling centres, nowadays I'm mainly dependent on donations. The key to finding keyboards at recycling centres is to keep coming back, and to make them SAVE the keyboards for you. Any single time instant will almost never yield anything. You need bulk before you can get good results ;) .
Chyrosran22 One of them gave me their number. Should I call them and tell them to save my number if they find any mechanical keyboards?
@@treeleaf6471 I'd just drop by regularly. It shows you're committed, too. Besides, you can sift through it all and maybe pick up something they missed ;) .
Chyrosran22 thank you
I don't know but those blank keycaps are extremely cool. They look like they should be in a Scifi movie so the lettering wouldn't be anachronistic.
Did you actually try the BKE Redux domes?
Just a side note, I think the spacebar sounds better when brand new.
I did a whole video on them!
@@Chyrosran22 Thanks, I'd missed it. Just curious, any thoughts on BKE Redux domes in Realforce vs HHKB -- which feels better?
@@loserpro43210 BKEs in RF
great review!
The keyboard became pregnant when he started speaking.
They finally released the HHKB Pro 3, but no one has made a decent review of it.
@@blackjack8957 It's a little better than that. It has a programmable pcb also which is looooong overdue.
@@blackjack8957 What do you mean you can't buy new ones?
I feel like a hacker would not want primary functions of a keyboard stripped from it.
Wow, that spacebar is a huge oversight. And I can't deal with the lack of separate cursor keys at a minimum, the other extra keys I don't' care so much about like PgUp/Dn etc. But yeah, for my silent keyboard I'll stick with my vintage Sun rubber dome for now, thanks (under $100 on eBay). I'm no cheapskate, I blew the budget on a Wooting One for my gaming rig and couldn't be happier with it, but it is a loud one so my work machine needs the silent treatment.
More on sorbothane, turns out to be the best schock absorbing material bar none, quite fascinating, better than rubber and neoprene, plus it is also very durable. Sounds exactly like the ideal material for those tiny dampening pads in some silent keys, also ideal for dampening o-rings. Wondering how come this material is not being used in keyboards yet. As far as I know there is no keyboard part using this
The price is a big barrier. A lot of people use it to dampen the sounds in keyboards they've already bought, though.
Does not seem to be too expensive a material, also it is allegedly relatively easy to manufacture. Patent held by the company Sorbothane in the USA, but the material was invented quite a few years ago though, just saw a very old-looking video about it here on TH-cam.
In my opinion sorbothane-dampened keys and keyboards should definitely exist among the ultimate options. Engineering/manufacturing differences aside, this material would offer the absolute best possible dampening/schock absorption for sure.
@@Chokkan Example of sorbothane price: 10 x 10 x 6.35mm thick pads, two of those can be purchased at Amazon.de for €21.47. Judging from that, end consumer cost of 1 cubic cm of sorbothane can be about (correction) €0.16 :
www.amazon.de/Sorbothane-30-Duro-dicke-2-pack/dp/B005JRN9WU/ref=lp_4641442031_1_1?srs=4641442031&ie=UTF8&qid=1542459930&sr=8-1
I wanna mat mod my keyboard now... Where do I get this shit for cheap? AliExpress?
Not my favorite for a couple good reasons
1. I don't care for 60% keyboards
2. It's way to quiet for me I love that clicking sound a good mechanical keyboard makes and don't want any silencing rings
Would you be interested in trading your fullsize Realforce in exchange for black tenkeyless elite keyboard version?
Quick edit: Just noticed you're not clicking the spacebar with your index finger. Good progress. It only took you a billion years!
I actually had no idea the spacebar was like this... I had a Type-S in JIS layout a few years ago, and the smaller spacebar didn't exhibit any of these issues. I kind of miss it (although I would consider my 55g Realforce in a Norbaforce case a significant upgrade). Definitely really quiet though.
My HHKB spacebar doesn't sound nearly as loud as this.
Edit: I tried it without the external coil spring and yes it is louder, probably because I'm bottoming out harder.
I love my BKE Ultra lights but the 3278 sees the most desk time in my private office. Please try to get a Topre Hipro for review.
Love the layout
You could also add a Hasu controller for 50 bucks for full programmability. You could also lube it. I've done all those things to my FC980C and yeah, it gets expensive.
Man I want a topre board but I dont like the HHKB layout. Gimme a topre 40% ortho
The best sound here is your voice. :)
I'm currently in the market for a new keyboard, since my current one doesn't actually have the macro support that it claimed to have. Redragon sucks.
I think you're the only channel in favor of redux over stock domes. Every review i've seen on them people have said they're a bit too tactile for them. I can tell they definitely sound better, but not sure how I would like the tactility.
From what I understood from the comments over the years, I'm "the only one to" many things xD . Maybe the others just don't really like tactile switches ;p .
@@Chyrosran22 well thats the reason your channel is growing faster than the others. You're logical and you make great/unique videos.
@@strongchad8130 Wait what? I thought I was by far the smallest channel xD .
@@Chyrosran22 your channel is quite large compared to most keyboard review channels. sure its smaller than most tech channels, but they praise everything no matter how overpriced and shit the products actually are.
@@strongchad8130 Interesting. I thought my channel was extremely tiny compared to everyone else xD .
With the new EU-Japan trade deal these should get cheaper for us soon.
After reading some more about sorbothane, it seems to have a consistency/feel/damping quality similar to meat. If that is not the case for that pad, must be some other material
Wish you had left the the Amazon link for prospective buyers
"loud as fuck"
did not expect a swear
uh, the dampened sound is sooo nice.
I've lubed the shit out of my spacebar stabilisers and it's pretty quiet now. Thankfully getting to them was pretty painless as the screw holes aren't covered up by anything. But yeah the ease of taking it apart aside, that shouldn't even be something you'd have to do at this kind of price.
I love the hhkb layout, but that spacebar is awful. Especially for that price.
@chyrosran22 - have you reviewed the Rama M60-a? With Holy Pandas and bandaid modded stabs, you might even come to like the hhkb layout
the stock type s in my opinion sounds like one of those old membrane keyboards u would get in school while the matted type s sounds like a sound of linear switch with a small tactile bump
I already miss the dropping of the kishsaver in the small form factor reviews
I know right? I wish I hadn't had to return it xD .
I bought one of these. It’s awesome, but I’d swap it for one tenth of your voice.
I have too always thought that the spaces on the bottom row even if they look cool (or at least different) are a poor design choice, especially considering that they had to split the right shift to put an FN key, and that there still are two "super" buttons (command on mac and the useless win logo on windows). The control placement seems less than optimal too to me, especially for the usual combos ctrl+c and ctrl+v, but maybe it simply is a layout targeted to mac users. What I find strange is why it is seems to be so common, being for a niche within a niche within a niche: for mechanical keyboard people, that use mac, that are willing to spend a lot of money (ok, the last two are generally the same thing!), that want a 60% keyboard with not standard layout.
@moo There's nothing wrong with ctrl instead of caps lock, it's just that to me it seems silly to waste space removing the two corner controls (that to me have the most accessible spot), and put them instead of capslock. I find that the capslock can be more useful as a FN button, or as a backspace as is used on colemak.
As far as windows keys, I use them only for shortcuts, so if I have two of them one becomes an FN and I keep the other, if I have a keyboard without them I can easily live having them under a second layer! And I can still open the start with ctrl + esc anyway! Not that I use it often, my brain (like most) works using images, so I prefer distinguish programs based on their icon. I keep all my most used programs on the taskbar, and the less used ones on groups on start. I don't know anyone who uses the start buttons!
moo control on home row is not objectively better. The fastest typists use caps lock instead of shift. Just depends on your usage. I fully agree about windows key though. People who deride it just don’t know how to use it.
layout didn't suit me that's why i opted to get the leopold FC660c instead, not as small but its got a better functioning layout.
Don't get me wrong i like the idea of topre, but for far less money you could buy a a CM Storm Devastator or A Razer Cynosa for about 45 US DOllars then lubricate the sliders with mineral oil for 75 percent of the feel of Topre for far less money. Scorpius Dome with slider is also a good alternative if you can get your hands on it.
Silicone oil can be harsh on some plastics. Also, Razer Cynosa sucks, no offense.
75%? You’re joking, right?
@@julian23561 Had no problems so far I have A Devastator 1 which i lubricated and a 3 which i didn't. It made the switches a lot quieter as well. And for like 40 bucks ill take the risk
@@vcxz4009 Don't knock it till u try it
@Chyrosran22
What are your thoughts on lubed rubber domes like i mentioned?
Absolutely love the sound.
I'd love to try Topre someday but I'm afraid I'll go broke if I do. They cost almost twice the price in my country.
Dang I was hoping you would review the hhkb jp because of its better layout.
nice.
Yeah no way I'd drop nearly $400 USD on a keyboard made entirely of plastic and with such a limited layout. Also silencing rings similar to the ones in the type S can be had for around $25USD from KBDfans. Personally I don't understand the point of them to begin with as IMO Topre is plenty quiet just in its stock state, my RF is already much quieter than any of my MX keyboards.
RF?
@@treeleaf6471 Realforce.
@@treeleaf6471 RF=Realforce which is a brand of Topre keyboard.
Would you recomend a RF? I want a topre board, but am split between the classic RF, the RGB (just cause of the mx sliders, rgb is not my thing), and the new R2.
RGB has the variable actuation feature AFAIK, i would very much want that if i could.
I have the regular professional 2. I lubed and silenced it myself. Also changed out the stems to cherry compatable. It's honestly one of my favorite boards. overpriced, yes. But the things you can do with one is honestly worth every penny. Truly no other typing experience like topre. Especially lubed topre. :).
I just picked one up, lovely keyboard, love the sound and feel apart from there's a scratchiness to some keys I can't explain. Does lubing eliminate that sensation?
i find myself using my happy hacking type s over my realforce 87u 55g all the time these days
You can mod silencing rings in a stock HHKB far cheaper than buying a Type-S