Those crew people on set who kitbashed all these ships for the battle of wolf 359 did an amazing job with the time they had to expand starfleets line of ships. It's something that should be appreciated after what we got with Picard s1's inquiry fleet.
Picard S1's fleet is the first fleet in Star Trek history that actually makes sense. You don't make a hundred ship designs and then build like 3 of each. That's not how R&D works. Look at every navy that has ever existed.
Out of all the TNG kitbashes I feel the Freedom and Niagara classes needed to get smushed together at some point. Whereas the Cheyenne and New Orleans actually worked pretty well. And of course the crown jewel is the Nebula.
Can you imagine being an alien race that uses largely uniform types and the Federation keeps rocking up in increasingly bizarre designs? Sometimes I’m sure they’d be stifling the giggles.
There's a really famous copypasta fanon where a Vulcan is explaining to a Klingon why they let the humans run the show. The gist is that humans are _insane_ and insist on trying to do things that every bit of known science says is a _terrible_ idea, but *it works out* a _distressing_ amount of the time. I see three-nacelle vessels as abiding by this ethos. Some warp theory class taught, "You can't form a stable warp field with an odd number of nacelles not having direct line of sight," and some cocky engineering cadet in the back of the classrom went, *"Bet."*
Reminds me of the story I heard about Scotty's Kobiyashi Maru. He pulled some looney stuff off, and lost in the end, but then the test proctor accused him of cheating, to which he pointed out that there was no way the klingon fleet could have half the number of ships in the area... and the test proctor said he had fired on the ships wrong and thery shouldn't have exploded like that and he replied "aye, but I figured your simulation wouldn't know the difference, and the math looks really tempting..." and the instructor protests that it had been proven that such a reaction didn't happen the way he had caused it, it had been proven in a paper... and he said "Aye, I know... did ye happen to look and see whose name was on the paper you're quoting?" and sure enough, there it was. "Montgomery Scott."
I was expecting someone to add, that it was a pair of students that said that at the same time, and looking at each other.."challenge excepted".. they say, and then later produce specs and simulation proofs of single nacelle design ships..that were working perfectly..with a HIGHER-UPS group casually watching. These HIGHER-UPS, then collect the Cadets, and their works, and put them to work..building "..their stupid ideas.." into real ships..with 1, 3, and 5 WARPWINGS..regularly getting visitors lead by their biggest sceptic, still hating them for their successes.
I think it'd look better if the top two naecelles were angled so all three were equidistant. More like a Wasp Class. I like the Ambassador Class and its variants.
This was one of the more unique Wolf 359 kit bashes. Even though I find it weird to see Galaxy class nacelles for a mostly Ambassador class hull...very weird choice, especially having three nacelles. This class is a weird one for sure but cool in its own regards.
I really appreciated the design of this when I got the Eaglemoss Model, it looks pretty good in 3D, it looks like a long range explorer that could operate "out there" without any sort of support for lengthy periods.
It would be kinda cool if CBS Paramount would do some updates to TNG and DS9 to slip in a few of the kit bash ships into episodes in place of some of those Excelsior and Miranda class ships. I know it won't happen but it would be nice.
The channel JTVFX has done thay for a few scenes. The ladt scene of A Call To Arms wjth the combined fleet, hes added ships and diversified the ship types. It may or may not be your cup of tea, but I quite like it.
They really need a lost era show. They could flesh out the Niagara and some of the other one hit wonder kitbashes that really deserve more screen time. Still hoping to one day get a cannon Rigel class appearance
Mentioning that lost era of trek, I really really hope we get an enterprise c series some day. I know we all know what the last episode in that tv series would be and annoyingly I think that's put them off ever diving into it
Thank you Ric. Honestly, this is my favorite background ship. Its so awkward, its so off, and I love it. You even call it correctly fast cruiser! Thank you, Ric. I thought itd be years till I see this video from you. THAT Id captain. Gimme a Niagara any day. ☺️🥰
I feel like the Niagara class would be a really interesting command for an ambitious captain, I'm sure it would have quite a few annoying quirks but it'd be very interesting and has unique capabilities for the time
Rick you have a beautiful voice buddy. They could spit out the specs on a Borg turd, and you'd still make it sound amazing, Thx for all your hard work xx
Wasn't the warp field geometry the reason provided in the show for nacelles in pairs? (In fact the whole reason why the Intrepid-Class's nacelles are moveable, to adjust the field geometry above warp 5, the first implementation of a safe design in response to the events of the TNG episode, Force of Nature.)
The warp bubble geometry change was after this was designed. They noticed that not only does the bubble need to be symmetrical it also needs to be able to make a different shape that doesn't tear substance as much as the traditional perfectly symmetrical warp bubble.
@@keit99which always struck me as paralleling how planes had “perfect” smoothed geometry for a long time, but in the last few decades have become increasingly asymmetrical and biological in appearance (taking on inspiration from whales, birds, etc).
I like to think that there's a testbed for testing and improving reusable saucer separation (as seen on the Galaxy) that's the cause of the NX-59650 registry on the Prometheus. The higher registry for it came from being redeveloped practically from scratch into the MVAM concept post-Wolf 359. As a note - there's a marking on the top of the saucer behind the bridge. It's a circle with three lines extending. This same symbol happens to be present on the belly of the Nebula, Galaxy, and Steamrunner's pod at a minimum (though the Galaxy might have a dot in the circle). I believe that's the marking for where the warp core ejection point is, which would mean that the Niagara ejects its warp core up rather than down like usual - likely due to the third nacelle. Creates an interesting question on how tall the core is, given the marking's position. Another interesting warp core size question is on the Olympic, which appears to have that marking at the rear of the ship facing up.
I quite liked this ship and included one in a story of mine as the potential initial vessel my protagonist would've served on, except because it was the same ship that was destroyed at Wolf 359, they ended up on the Enterprise instead.
And here I thought that the shipyard found an extra nacelle and didn't know what to do with it, so they stuck it on an Ambassador class ship and called it the Niagara Class. While on the other side of the shipyard, they were constructing a Challenger class ship, but couldn't find the second nacelle so they decided to only put one and call it the Freedom class. I guess I was wrong.
We've barely knew most of the "Kit-Bash" units, unfortunately lost at Wolf 359. But, now thanks to such channels, like this one, we get to see the fallin heroes of a very epic time in Starfleet's history. Mostly so to give thanks, and credit to, those envolved that started with the "Kit-Bash" models, and for sure for the ones that generated the TH-cam visuals from head-to-toe close ups of these ships. Merry Christmas 🎅 🎄 to all, and God Bless!
Just wanted to say thank you, sir, for ur time and dedication to these videos. U have a fun, entertaining, and calm cadence thru ur explanations. I look forward to ur informative videos whenever they come about. Thank you again.
My head canon for the nacelle placement is the "two nacelles in los" is the "best" design for reliable, dependable warp. But it's obviously not the only way to do it.
16 seconds into the vid and my first thought is "The bussard collectors cover the rear ends of the aft phaser strips on the dorsal side of the main hull." Ôo Yeah, thanks but no thanks, I'll stick to the Cheyenne. ^^
I quite liked the custom saucer, and thay the phaser arrays are each bigger than the ones on the ambassador class, but not all connected in a single array like the Galaxy or Nebula.
While they say the 'rules' are that they have 2 warp nacelles with line of sight to each other, I like to think that's simply the optimal way to design ships; but that there are possible options with odd numbers, like shown here. The other one I don't think they've talked much about us dual nacelles.. where a single nacelle is structured in such a way to act as a pair siting side by side.. I'm sure there's some performance or efficiency boost by spacing them out (or it wouldn't be so prevalent), but that doesn't mean it can't be done. In the real world, if the requirements demand it, engineers always find a way to break the 'rules' of ship design. From hull shapes, to power plants, propeller positions, the sound barrier, and many other engineering rules. I don't see why Star Trek would be any different.
That reminds me of how the Vulcan “one big ring” warp nacelles probably function as many smaller ones side by side (four if going by how the glowing windows are separated, or a few dozen if going by the size of the light-up segments when at warp)
@@enisra_bowman, of course, but this is more about what are the in-universe lore/engineering reasons that we see ships matching the style guide. IE, if the style guides mean you see a majority of ships with two nacelles spaced apart, then it follows that a believable lore would have some technical engineering reason that's so common. It's more efficient, cheaper, faster, whatever. I think that's what most of these videos are getting in to. I'm sure you could find all kinds of similar justifications on why Starfleet seems to prefer saucers on the ship. Maybe it fits better into the shape of the warp bubble and funnel gas into the Bussard collectors? Perhaps it helps with computational latency if your sensors and main systems are in a hub radiating out from the computer core (and thus the computer cores commonly in the center of the saucer). Perhaps future advancements in bio-neural circuitry makes that less of a concern? That's the fun part, not just 'well it's an artistic style guide'. These kinds of things make the story immersive.. if it were all just random style guides, it'd not be very mentally engaging for most people.
@@stormycatmink well, i think it came up during the design process of the romulan Warbird and why there is a gap there, that up until that, it was just the case that almost every "hero" ship had line of sight between the nacelles. But then again, ships like the Tholian ones, the Fesarious, several reused Alien-Of-the-week ships already hadn't line of sight. Compared to things like that fed. Ships had to be off-white-ish to light bluish Gray
Okay, I know this wasn’t the subject of this video, but the designs on the nacelles reminded me. Is there an in-universe explanation for the TNG com badges having the oval design behind the arrow/chevron/delta after the original series, or for the evolution to that trapezoid shape post Generations, or for the lack of any shape behind it in lower decks?
The origins and explanation of this ship is similar to a ship that was created for one of the vessels featured in an expansion for Last Unicorn games. I believe the book was called the price of freedom or something to that effect. I really love the ships in that book and highly recommended to anyone. I'm not sure if digital copies are still available of these books but they are well worth the time. That said it would be interesting to hear some of your reviews for those ships from those books. Even if they aren't Canon.
3:33 I wonder if the Niagra Class starship also saw use as a "first responder" vessel in times of planetary or space vessel emergencies, due to it's unique ability to cover greater distances in short bursts vs the standard contemporaries of it's time (not including the Galaxy Class, of course)
Found this after spending a few minutes trying to parse the design of Tholian ships (specifically the ones in Enterprise) and I think the Tholians also use triple nacelles (albeit smaller and hidden in their superstructure). Maybe that "high-speed burst" design had more advantages to the Assembly than the Federation.
One of the things I’d like this ship to do is use rotating pairs of nacelles to maintain a warp field. Instead of a full duplicate pair steamrunner style, it could cruise, “resting” one of the nacelles on a rotation (1-2 pair, 2-3 pair, 1-3 pair).
The triangle is the simplest and most stable geometric shape with the fewest points needed to create volume. You'd think it would be the most minimal configuration needed to generate a warp field if nacelle positioning matters and isn't just supplying power.
I liked that about the Ent D with the 3rd nacelle. Almost like it had the same design philosophy as the Promethius. Let's give it some bigger weapons.... And a canon. Why not, hear me out....... a cloak. OMG guys, I have it. 3rd nacelle, just to flesh it out more.
I think it would work better if it had two actual Ambassador nacelles and only had one from the Galaxy class. They could say it would switch between pairs, normally on Ambassador nacelles, then one Ambassador and one Galaxy for testing out new nacelles designs, proof of concepts, how they function at different speeds, power consumption, etc and directly compare the old and the new, then they could have another ship of the line with two Galaxy nacelles and one from a Sovereign.
The Niagara class could be a razeed Ambassador, with some of her superstructure cut down. Then had the third nacelle was added. She would only succeed as a proper starship if she filled some hole in Starfleets order of battle. Starfleet could have built a dozen of these ships to see how the experimental stuff worked out. One of them was availible when the call came in to face the Borg. So the Princeton was sent.
I like the concept of slapping new generation nacelles on older hulls, or generally rigging new tech to old ships, but it would have looked better with 4 nacelles imo.
It would be fun if the Galaxy was designed to have a midlife or application specific third nacelle upgrade (as per "All Good Things") because of this design, which occurred in one timeline (AGT alternate timeline) but not ultimately in the prime timeline (probably because Dominion War)
it was somewhat weird, i never noticed that class until the TFO and i thought that i knew every kitbashed ship from Star Trek, like from ... looking up what kitbashed ships they used in Star Trek
Actually a great idea to have a spare nacel! How many times has a ship been disabled by a hit to a nacel? Looks like the Enterprise C? Also a nice symmetrical warp field.....
Being able to cycle 2 of three active nacelles makes this a ship that can stay in warp for long periods of time. It'd be perfect if it could just infinitely cycle them.
I don't know as I see the "even-numbered nacelles" qualification as limiting, but that could be because I've yet to see an odd-numbered nacelle design that I thought looked very good.
honestly if they had just spread out the nacelle more symmetrical, and maybe give it a rudimentary warp cruse of rotating 2 on 1 off, it would have worked and looked better as a ship.
Kit bashing occurs in real life too, the flagship Plymouth Prowler had Chrysler, Jeep, and Dodge components too...and two concept vessels were built on its aluminum frame!!! LOL
I've never understood the need for three nacelles, the only reason I can think of is in case one nacelle needs to be shut down due to damage or a fault. But that's an awful lot of extra expense for redundancy.
When it was a prototype the _Niagara_ would be an NX until it was commissioned and part of the regular fleet, then it was redesigned with the NCC. Same as with the _Excelsior_ going from NX-2000 in "Search for Spock" to NCC-2000 in "Undiscovered Country"
For me the ship is beautiful and than we hit the 3 nacelle. Everything seems in place but this randomly bit underneath. I would have taken it more series as a sort of Galaxy Dreadnought Precursor with the third nacelle on top. Otherwise a real beauty.
With physical models no longer being used, there will never be kitbashes again. Instead they'll just copy and paste dozens of the same ship, with just different looking nacelles attached in order to save having to render new hulls.....
Probably the best thing about the "starship design rules" is that they never existed in canon and were never taken seriously by the show staff. Though since the info in this video does not come from any established canon, I'm curious where it all came from.
The security officer needs to be careful with the rearwards phaser strips on the saucer under the nacelles. One stray shot and you are sabering off your Bussard collectors.
I have a question about the warp core and the warp plasma. The Galaxy class had a huge warp core to generate enough plasma for the rather large warp nacelles. Adding a third would seem to me to necessitate either a second, smaller core or a larger core for the added plasma.
I don't like this implication that more nacelles makes go faster. Gene Roddenberry had made a point to say that nacelles were not engines and provided no thrust/propulsive force; that their function was to create a pair of fields, the intersection of which created the warp field that allowed the ship to move faster than light
The original Trek Tech manual had a three nacelle design in it - it was a "Battleship" class, far larger than the Constitution Class, though we've never seen one.
I've always liked the tri-necell starships and I even built one based on the old tech manual it was based on the original constitution class and the manual described it as a DREADNOUGHT and I liked the Galaxy class Three necelled ship from the All good things episode, I'm not fond of this class but that's just me live long and prosper 🖖
I have always had mixed feelings about this ship, while I love ships with more than two nacelles, this one is just missing something. Maybe its the extra wide saucer that doesn't seem to work with the Ambassador's secondary hull. Would love 💙 to see this as a four nacelle variant, as long as the lower pair of pylons mirrored the upper pair. Of course, it needs a rounder saucer as well. (IMHO)
This perhaps the strangest of the Wolf 359 kitbashes, but it pairs well with the Freedom-class which was made using the same components. It also still looks better than 80% of the god-awful DS9 kitbash ships like the Curry and the Raging Queen.
Between TOS and DS9 there was, what 20 ish classes? Not counting refits or non UFP powers. Constitution Oberth Olympic Meranda Excelsior Galaxy Constellation TOS Dreadnought Runabout Intrepid Nebula Defiant Freedom Peregrine fighters Ambassador Bozeman Wolf fleet. Sovereign Akira Steam runner I know I missed a few.
Those crew people on set who kitbashed all these ships for the battle of wolf 359 did an amazing job with the time they had to expand starfleets line of ships. It's something that should be appreciated after what we got with Picard s1's inquiry fleet.
Picard S1's fleet is the first fleet in Star Trek history that actually makes sense. You don't make a hundred ship designs and then build like 3 of each. That's not how R&D works. Look at every navy that has ever existed.
Out of all the TNG kitbashes I feel the Freedom and Niagara classes needed to get smushed together at some point. Whereas the Cheyenne and New Orleans actually worked pretty well. And of course the crown jewel is the Nebula.
Well said. The Nebula is gorgeous.
@@GlacierMF5 The Nebula is one of the best ships in the fleet.
Can you imagine being an alien race that uses largely uniform types and the Federation keeps rocking up in increasingly bizarre designs?
Sometimes I’m sure they’d be stifling the giggles.
There's a really famous copypasta fanon where a Vulcan is explaining to a Klingon why they let the humans run the show.
The gist is that humans are _insane_ and insist on trying to do things that every bit of known science says is a _terrible_ idea, but *it works out* a _distressing_ amount of the time.
I see three-nacelle vessels as abiding by this ethos. Some warp theory class taught, "You can't form a stable warp field with an odd number of nacelles not having direct line of sight," and some cocky engineering cadet in the back of the classrom went, *"Bet."*
Reminds me of the story I heard about Scotty's Kobiyashi Maru. He pulled some looney stuff off, and lost in the end, but then the test proctor accused him of cheating, to which he pointed out that there was no way the klingon fleet could have half the number of ships in the area... and the test proctor said he had fired on the ships wrong and thery shouldn't have exploded like that and he replied "aye, but I figured your simulation wouldn't know the difference, and the math looks really tempting..." and the instructor protests that it had been proven that such a reaction didn't happen the way he had caused it, it had been proven in a paper... and he said "Aye, I know... did ye happen to look and see whose name was on the paper you're quoting?" and sure enough, there it was. "Montgomery Scott."
You don't have to be crazy, look at three-phase (delta or "Y") electrical theory, apply it to the warp cycle, and it makes perfect sense.
I was expecting someone to add, that it was a pair of students that said that at the same time, and looking at each other.."challenge excepted".. they say, and then later produce specs and simulation proofs of single nacelle design ships..that were working perfectly..with a HIGHER-UPS group casually watching. These HIGHER-UPS, then collect the Cadets, and their works, and put them to work..building "..their stupid ideas.." into real ships..with 1, 3, and 5 WARPWINGS..regularly getting visitors lead by their biggest sceptic, still hating them for their successes.
I'd love more Lost Era stuff. A show would be awesome.
I love how odd this ship is, there's something really cool about it
I think it'd look better if the top two naecelles were angled so all three were equidistant. More like a Wasp Class. I like the Ambassador Class and its variants.
For a second, I thought you were going to talk about the 3 nacelled Enterprise that Admiral Richer commanded in "All good things"
Now that's a 3 nacelle design that looks good.
This was one of the more unique Wolf 359 kit bashes. Even though I find it weird to see Galaxy class nacelles for a mostly Ambassador class hull...very weird choice, especially having three nacelles.
This class is a weird one for sure but cool in its own regards.
I would have opted for a different type of nacelle, but for background kitbashes, I don't think it would have been very practical.
Always kinda liked this one, pulled off the triple nacelles well.
I actually kinda like this thing.
It's a little weird and clunky but it's got character and is pretty unique.
this vid hit my home page 18 secs after being uploaded... nice.
Same
The motto of the lost era seems to be “lasted longer than it should have”
It amuses me greatly that Yoyodyne persists as an Easter egg. Buckaroo Banzai being part of the Star Trek universe is hilarious.
I really appreciated the design of this when I got the Eaglemoss Model, it looks pretty good in 3D, it looks like a long range explorer that could operate "out there" without any sort of support for lengthy periods.
I took the third nacelle off, and it looks way better, IMHO.
It would be kinda cool if CBS Paramount would do some updates to TNG and DS9 to slip in a few of the kit bash ships into episodes in place of some of those Excelsior and Miranda class ships. I know it won't happen but it would be nice.
The channel JTVFX has done thay for a few scenes. The ladt scene of A Call To Arms wjth the combined fleet, hes added ships and diversified the ship types. It may or may not be your cup of tea, but I quite like it.
They really need a lost era show. They could flesh out the Niagara and some of the other one hit wonder kitbashes that really deserve more screen time. Still hoping to one day get a cannon Rigel class appearance
Mentioning that lost era of trek, I really really hope we get an enterprise c series some day. I know we all know what the last episode in that tv series would be and annoyingly I think that's put them off ever diving into it
Thank you Ric. Honestly, this is my favorite background ship. Its so awkward, its so off, and I love it. You even call it correctly fast cruiser!
Thank you, Ric. I thought itd be years till I see this video from you.
THAT Id captain. Gimme a Niagara any day. ☺️🥰
I feel like the Niagara class would be a really interesting command for an ambitious captain, I'm sure it would have quite a few annoying quirks but it'd be very interesting and has unique capabilities for the time
Rick you have a beautiful voice buddy. They could spit out the specs on a Borg turd, and you'd still make it sound amazing, Thx for all your hard work xx
Wasn't the warp field geometry the reason provided in the show for nacelles in pairs?
(In fact the whole reason why the Intrepid-Class's nacelles are moveable, to adjust the field geometry above warp 5, the first implementation of a safe design in response to the events of the TNG episode, Force of Nature.)
No it's supposed to be symmetrical something that's easier to achieve with pairs (or multiples of 2).
The warp bubble geometry change was after this was designed. They noticed that not only does the bubble need to be symmetrical it also needs to be able to make a different shape that doesn't tear substance as much as the traditional perfectly symmetrical warp bubble.
@@keit99which always struck me as paralleling how planes had “perfect” smoothed geometry for a long time, but in the last few decades have become increasingly asymmetrical and biological in appearance (taking on inspiration from whales, birds, etc).
@@kaitlyn__L oh that makes a lot of sense
@@keit99 cute fursona btw :)
I like to think that there's a testbed for testing and improving reusable saucer separation (as seen on the Galaxy) that's the cause of the NX-59650 registry on the Prometheus. The higher registry for it came from being redeveloped practically from scratch into the MVAM concept post-Wolf 359.
As a note - there's a marking on the top of the saucer behind the bridge. It's a circle with three lines extending. This same symbol happens to be present on the belly of the Nebula, Galaxy, and Steamrunner's pod at a minimum (though the Galaxy might have a dot in the circle). I believe that's the marking for where the warp core ejection point is, which would mean that the Niagara ejects its warp core up rather than down like usual - likely due to the third nacelle. Creates an interesting question on how tall the core is, given the marking's position. Another interesting warp core size question is on the Olympic, which appears to have that marking at the rear of the ship facing up.
I quite liked this ship and included one in a story of mine as the potential initial vessel my protagonist would've served on, except because it was the same ship that was destroyed at Wolf 359, they ended up on the Enterprise instead.
Odd, I love it! A video on the Archer class would be awesome!
And here I thought that the shipyard found an extra nacelle and didn't know what to do with it, so they stuck it on an Ambassador class ship and called it the Niagara Class.
While on the other side of the shipyard, they were constructing a Challenger class ship, but couldn't find the second nacelle so they decided to only put one and call it the Freedom class.
I guess I was wrong.
We've barely knew most of the "Kit-Bash" units, unfortunately lost at Wolf 359. But, now thanks to such channels, like this one, we get to see the fallin heroes of a very epic time in Starfleet's history. Mostly so to give thanks, and credit to, those envolved that started with the "Kit-Bash" models, and for sure for the ones that generated the TH-cam visuals from head-to-toe close ups of these ships.
Merry Christmas 🎅 🎄 to all, and God Bless!
I usually don’t like 3 nacelle designs but the Niagara Class is one of the few I really like.
I'm precisely the opposite, I like all trireme (3 nacelle) designs EXCEPT this one.
I just painted a micro machine scale one for my fleet and I actually don't hate it as much now
Just wanted to say thank you, sir, for ur time and dedication to these videos. U have a fun, entertaining, and calm cadence thru ur explanations. I look forward to ur informative videos whenever they come about. Thank you again.
My head canon for the nacelle placement is the "two nacelles in los" is the "best" design for reliable, dependable warp. But it's obviously not the only way to do it.
Thank you, I found this one weird but it quickly grew on me during the Wolf 359 event on STO. It's nice to know more about it.
They really went over the edge with this one.
16 seconds into the vid and my first thought is "The bussard collectors cover the rear ends of the aft phaser strips on the dorsal side of the main hull." Ôo
Yeah, thanks but no thanks, I'll stick to the Cheyenne. ^^
The New Orleans-class has a similar issue, where the lower pod covers the two phaser strips on the engineering hull.
I quite liked the custom saucer, and thay the phaser arrays are each bigger than the ones on the ambassador class, but not all connected in a single array like the Galaxy or Nebula.
While they say the 'rules' are that they have 2 warp nacelles with line of sight to each other, I like to think that's simply the optimal way to design ships; but that there are possible options with odd numbers, like shown here. The other one I don't think they've talked much about us dual nacelles.. where a single nacelle is structured in such a way to act as a pair siting side by side.. I'm sure there's some performance or efficiency boost by spacing them out (or it wouldn't be so prevalent), but that doesn't mean it can't be done.
In the real world, if the requirements demand it, engineers always find a way to break the 'rules' of ship design. From hull shapes, to power plants, propeller positions, the sound barrier, and many other engineering rules. I don't see why Star Trek would be any different.
Agreed I’ve always seen odd number nacelle classes as deadend designs when they were trying to pump more out of their current warp tech
it was more like "somewhat a style guide" as a "hard rule because of in universe science" and we also got other noncompliant designs later
That reminds me of how the Vulcan “one big ring” warp nacelles probably function as many smaller ones side by side (four if going by how the glowing windows are separated, or a few dozen if going by the size of the light-up segments when at warp)
@@enisra_bowman, of course, but this is more about what are the in-universe lore/engineering reasons that we see ships matching the style guide. IE, if the style guides mean you see a majority of ships with two nacelles spaced apart, then it follows that a believable lore would have some technical engineering reason that's so common. It's more efficient, cheaper, faster, whatever. I think that's what most of these videos are getting in to. I'm sure you could find all kinds of similar justifications on why Starfleet seems to prefer saucers on the ship. Maybe it fits better into the shape of the warp bubble and funnel gas into the Bussard collectors? Perhaps it helps with computational latency if your sensors and main systems are in a hub radiating out from the computer core (and thus the computer cores commonly in the center of the saucer). Perhaps future advancements in bio-neural circuitry makes that less of a concern? That's the fun part, not just 'well it's an artistic style guide'. These kinds of things make the story immersive.. if it were all just random style guides, it'd not be very mentally engaging for most people.
@@stormycatmink well, i think it came up during the design process of the romulan Warbird and why there is a gap there, that up until that, it was just the case that almost every "hero" ship had line of sight between the nacelles.
But then again, ships like the Tholian ones, the Fesarious, several reused Alien-Of-the-week ships already hadn't line of sight.
Compared to things like that fed. Ships had to be off-white-ish to light bluish Gray
Okay, I know this wasn’t the subject of this video, but the designs on the nacelles reminded me. Is there an in-universe explanation for the TNG com badges having the oval design behind the arrow/chevron/delta after the original series, or for the evolution to that trapezoid shape post Generations, or for the lack of any shape behind it in lower decks?
The origins and explanation of this ship is similar to a ship that was created for one of the vessels featured in an expansion for Last Unicorn games. I believe the book was called the price of freedom or something to that effect. I really love the ships in that book and highly recommended to anyone. I'm not sure if digital copies are still available of these books but they are well worth the time. That said it would be interesting to hear some of your reviews for those ships from those books. Even if they aren't Canon.
3:33 I wonder if the Niagra Class starship also saw use as a "first responder" vessel in times of planetary or space vessel emergencies, due to it's unique ability to cover greater distances in short bursts vs the standard contemporaries of it's time (not including the Galaxy Class, of course)
Great vid! Would love to see a vid on the challenger class next!
Nice, I wonder if they removed the third bussard collector would it have gotten a bit more staying power with the fans.
Great video 👏🏻
Yoyodyne...a Growing, excited company who employs only perfectly normal humanbeings!
Niagara class has won a place in my heart. It shouldn't, but it does.
I honestly really like the niagara class, the unique nacelle placements are real attractive to me
Hell yeah a ship video
Found this after spending a few minutes trying to parse the design of Tholian ships (specifically the ones in Enterprise) and I think the Tholians also use triple nacelles (albeit smaller and hidden in their superstructure). Maybe that "high-speed burst" design had more advantages to the Assembly than the Federation.
One of the things I’d like this ship to do is use rotating pairs of nacelles to maintain a warp field. Instead of a full duplicate pair steamrunner style, it could cruise, “resting” one of the nacelles on a rotation (1-2 pair, 2-3 pair, 1-3 pair).
what I would want to see is a starship design that fills the gap between sovereign class and the odyssey class starship
This is a cute, adorable ship
The triangle is the simplest and most stable geometric shape with the fewest points needed to create volume. You'd think it would be the most minimal configuration needed to generate a warp field if nacelle positioning matters and isn't just supplying power.
Were there any class starships of this era that, on the surface, no one thought much of, but, once fielded, exceeded anyone's expectations?
Clunky is an apt description. Almost every ship with three nacelles is clunky. The third nacelle always looks like a tacted on afterthought.
I liked that about the Ent D with the 3rd nacelle. Almost like it had the same design philosophy as the Promethius. Let's give it some bigger weapons.... And a canon. Why not, hear me out....... a cloak. OMG guys, I have it. 3rd nacelle, just to flesh it out more.
“A third nacelle” is even the new social metaphor to replace “a fifth wheel”! Barclay says he doesn’t want to be “the third nacelle” at least once.
I think it would work better if it had two actual Ambassador nacelles and only had one from the Galaxy class. They could say it would switch between pairs, normally on Ambassador nacelles, then one Ambassador and one Galaxy for testing out new nacelles designs, proof of concepts, how they function at different speeds, power consumption, etc and directly compare the old and the new, then they could have another ship of the line with two Galaxy nacelles and one from a Sovereign.
The Niagara class could be a razeed Ambassador, with some of her superstructure cut down. Then had the third nacelle was added. She would only succeed as a proper starship if she filled some hole in Starfleets order of battle.
Starfleet could have built a dozen of these ships to see how the experimental stuff worked out. One of them was availible when the call came in to face the Borg. So the Princeton was sent.
I like the concept of slapping new generation nacelles on older hulls, or generally rigging new tech to old ships, but it would have looked better with 4 nacelles imo.
It would be fun if the Galaxy was designed to have a midlife or application specific third nacelle upgrade (as per "All Good Things") because of this design, which occurred in one timeline (AGT alternate timeline) but not ultimately in the prime timeline (probably because Dominion War)
You should do the Ambassador off shoot Renaissance class, Apollo and Merced classes.
it was somewhat weird, i never noticed that class until the TFO
and i thought that i knew every kitbashed ship from Star Trek, like from ... looking up what kitbashed ships they used in Star Trek
Actually a great idea to have a spare nacel! How many times has a ship been disabled by a hit to a nacel? Looks like the Enterprise C? Also a nice symmetrical warp field.....
Following pre-established laws of physics often gives more interesting results compared to when designers just go with "whatever"
Being able to cycle 2 of three active nacelles makes this a ship that can stay in warp for long periods of time. It'd be perfect if it could just infinitely cycle them.
Wait, but apparently the third nacelle isn't considered equal.
So yeah, this isn't as good as say, the Stargazer.
@@smileymalaiseseems to be more like the “warp field governor” on the NX in functionality.
Right off the bat, a Federation vessel is off to presumably take on a Borg Cube.
Definitely an odd looking ship, but not bad.
I don't know as I see the "even-numbered nacelles" qualification as limiting, but that could be because I've yet to see an odd-numbered nacelle design that I thought looked very good.
honestly if they had just spread out the nacelle more symmetrical, and maybe give it a rudimentary warp cruse of rotating 2 on 1 off, it would have worked and looked better as a ship.
Kit bashing occurs in real life too, the flagship Plymouth Prowler had Chrysler, Jeep, and Dodge components too...and two concept vessels were built on its aluminum frame!!! LOL
I've never understood the need for three nacelles, the only reason I can think of is in case one nacelle needs to be shut down due to damage or a fault. But that's an awful lot of extra expense for redundancy.
As it is a Prototype, should it be a NX instead of NCC?
When it was a prototype the _Niagara_ would be an NX until it was commissioned and part of the regular fleet, then it was redesigned with the NCC. Same as with the _Excelsior_ going from NX-2000 in "Search for Spock" to NCC-2000 in "Undiscovered Country"
Would have been better if it had a mission pod instead, assuming it had to have an underside attachment at all.
For me the ship is beautiful and than we hit the 3 nacelle. Everything seems in place but this randomly bit underneath. I would have taken it more series as a sort of Galaxy Dreadnought Precursor with the third nacelle on top. Otherwise a real beauty.
Good video 👍
With physical models no longer being used, there will never be kitbashes again.
Instead they'll just copy and paste dozens of the same ship, with just different looking nacelles attached in order to save having to render new hulls.....
Probably the best thing about the "starship design rules" is that they never existed in canon and were never taken seriously by the show staff.
Though since the info in this video does not come from any established canon, I'm curious where it all came from.
Mostly the apocrypha used in the world building for the tabletop RPG "Star Trek Adventures" and schematics from the Star Trek Fact Files
tbh I never really noticed the Niagara class until the Wolf 359 TFO in Star Trek Online put me in one.
I though they'd made it up.
'I wouldn't want to be the third nacelle...': Reginald Barclay.
The security officer needs to be careful with the rearwards phaser strips on the saucer under the nacelles. One stray shot and you are sabering off your Bussard collectors.
I have a question about the warp core and the warp plasma. The Galaxy class had a huge warp core to generate enough plasma for the rather large warp nacelles. Adding a third would seem to me to necessitate either a second, smaller core or a larger core for the added plasma.
I don't like this implication that more nacelles makes go faster. Gene Roddenberry had made a point to say that nacelles were not engines and provided no thrust/propulsive force; that their function was to create a pair of fields, the intersection of which created the warp field that allowed the ship to move faster than light
So should we expect videos on the Challenger & Springfield classes...or have you yet to acquired those ships on your STO account:P
You should check out the playable movie Startrek: Borg. Its hard to get the video game to play but its amazing.
So it couldn't travel at one third its cruising warp while the other two nacelles cool? Makes the four nacelle system seem more sensible.
Niagara class, eh? I could "fall" for this design... 😏😆
The original Trek Tech manual had a three nacelle design in it - it was a "Battleship" class, far larger than the Constitution Class, though we've never seen one.
Question to Warp-Speed: Warp 1 = Lightspeed = 299,792 And for example warp 6 = 299,792*6? Or does it depends on the coils in the nacelles?
I've always liked the tri-necell starships and I even built one based on the old tech manual it was based on the original constitution class and the manual described it as a DREADNOUGHT and I liked the Galaxy class Three necelled ship from the All good things episode, I'm not fond of this class but that's just me live long and prosper 🖖
From behind, it looks like a Flux compactor from back to the future.
I took the third nacelle off my Eaglemoss USS Princeton, and it looks so much better. Seriously.
I have always had mixed feelings about this ship, while I love ships with more than two nacelles, this one is just missing something. Maybe its the extra wide saucer that doesn't seem to work with the Ambassador's secondary hull.
Would love 💙 to see this as a four nacelle variant, as long as the lower pair of pylons mirrored the upper pair. Of course, it needs a rounder saucer as well. (IMHO)
Tbh I was expecting the new Orleans before the Niagara in your video coverage
If you're going to add a third nacelle, why not mount it on the saucer so both units have warp capability after saucer-separation?
This would work if the saucer and secondary hull were designed closer to the Liberator.
100th comment here, I have always liked this ship due to its resemblance to the Ambassador Class.
This ship would have been most useful as a component ferry, especially if it could dock a galaxy saucer.
This perhaps the strangest of the Wolf 359 kitbashes, but it pairs well with the Freedom-class which was made using the same components.
It also still looks better than 80% of the god-awful DS9 kitbash ships like the Curry and the Raging Queen.
Not exactly a kitbash I like but thanks for the lore :)
I like that style it's better than the Miranda and the one nacelles
More tech going to Yoyodyne Propulsion? When will Star Fleet learn that that is a front for the Red Lectroids?
When I saw this design before I thought it was a joke.
Springfield Class soon?
Starfleet has too many ship designers and not enough ship builders. To be realistic, they need fewer designs and more ships of each design.
Between TOS and DS9 there was, what 20 ish classes?
Not counting refits or non UFP powers.
Constitution
Oberth
Olympic
Meranda
Excelsior
Galaxy
Constellation
TOS Dreadnought
Runabout
Intrepid
Nebula
Defiant
Freedom
Peregrine fighters
Ambassador
Bozeman
Wolf fleet.
Sovereign
Akira
Steam runner
I know I missed a few.
Still want to see and have an up-to-date JUGGERNAUT CLASS.