Adam Ondra #78: Climbing Grades / How I Grade Routes
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- ENGLISH SUBTITLES AVAILABLE IN THE VIDEO SETTINGS
ČESKÉ TITULKY JSOU DOSTUPNÉ V NASTAVENÍ VIDEA
What are those numbers after the name of each route? They are grades and they might be the most discussed topic in climbing. What is the science behind grading the routes and why are they subjective? Enjoy the next episode!
Get yourself amazed by beautiful pictures in my photobook - AO Book:
• Adam Ondra Book
Have you seen this video of mine ?!
• Adam Ondra #47: The Be...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Credits:
STORY BY
ADAM ONDRA
DIRECTED BY
LACO KORBEL
CAMERA
PAVEL KLEMENT
ARCHIVE FOOTAGE
ADAM ONDRA PERSONAL ARCHIVE
ARCHIVE STILLS
VOJTĚCH VRZBA
PETR PEPE PIECHOWICZ
BERNARDO GIMÉNEZ
PETR PAVLÍČEK
MARTIN PELIKÁN
EDITED BY
ADAM LIGOCKI
PRODUCTION
JAKUB PÍNA
SUBTITLES BY
JARKA MARČEKOVÁ
EXECUTIVE PRODUCER
PAVEL BLAŽEK
SONGLIST
Full Frontal Audio - Painting by Numbers
Fin Productions - My Numbers
Haxxy - Apparel
S&D Productions - Under the Fountain
Ethan Rank - Stereo Daydream
Montee - Ocean Reflections
© 2020 AO PRODUCTION S.R.O.
#climbing #grades #hardestroutes #rockclimbing #grading - กีฬา
'I can safely say I will never climb a 10b'
Me and Adam Ondra have something in common!
If you're joking about the yosemite decimal system, you for sure can do it. A few years ago I struggled to complete 10 moves on jugs on an indoor bouldering wall, now I redpoint 5.11s on rock (and I know I have a lot more potential). It's just a matter of persistence, strategy and enjoyment of climbing. There is both a blind guy and a girl who's lacking a hand that have climbed 5.11. Climb a lot, get your technique dialed and try hard, you've got this!
lol, even a 5.10b can seem like an impossible goal to many
@Spencer Parkin man I work really fucking hard at meeting new climbing partners and sometimes I still end up going bouldering or rope soloing quite a lot. My true privilege lies in having the free time to climb and having moved to a place with a ton of rock. Also climbers are friendly, times are weird because of COVID right now, but I'm pretty sure in regular time if you went for a walk around the bluffs with your shoes and harness people would let you hop on their rope for a couple laps.
as someone who uses America type grading, i understand this joke
It's been really great to see how much Adam has developed both as an elite athlete,
and as such an excellent ambassador for the sport :)
It's rare that the best in the world is also a great leader. Climbing is lucky to have him.
Human balance
GROWTH and control
I think it also reflects the community behind the sport, I started this year and man, I've never seen a sport where the community is so supportive whether it's during a casual session or a competitive one. Everyone has this positive vibe it's so great
@@Souslik19
Climbing inherently induces humility as it can kill you. Sport climbing on an artificial wall is about as safe as it gers, but the history of climbing is full of life threatening experiences. Plus, the climbing community has grown from a pool of souls searching for freedom in the outdoors. And there's always a route or mountain that will kick the very best climber's ass. There's just no room for big egos in climbing.
He really is an ambassador. Very articulate, gets into fine detail without being boring, spreading entousiasm. I would appreciate less swearing when things fail though. See Finnish climbers for that matter.
Who else loves the way he says relatively.
Great timing on this video. Right after Megos sends Bibliographie!
I know, the 2 on 9c was hype!
@@otaserus sorry what do you mean? Can you explain?
it's fake. it s not a 9c at all + the ratings are falsified by "climbing autorities" when they want
@@Remi-B-Goode why do you think it's not 9c? Alex Megos is wicked strong, do you just think he wouldn't be able to climb that hard?
@@Remi-B-Goode how do you know? i think megos knows better how hard it was
I thought the difficulty of the road was measured in decibels...
Route* but very funny nonetheless
@@michalifabian9646 :) Another 78 videos and I will be perfect.
@@pawelm5493 you can edit comments
Avenue,terrain
Voyageur.
Awesome video, lots of great info and seeing the little 2 over 9cs was very nice ! I hope we'll see Adam try Bibliographie one day !
For sure we will
I think Ondra was foreshadowing his downgrade of Bibliograpie by saying it's the most embarrassing thing! He'll be on it as soon as he's allowed, im sure.
@@Mdjagg Nah I don't think Bibliographie will be downgraded. Alex has climbed 9b+ so he knows that what he did what next level. I think it's Silence that will one day be bumped up a grade when it's repeated. Seems so hard
@@Mdjagg On Instagram, Adam congratulated Alex Megos and said he was glad that Alex suggested 9c. I think Alex knows what he's doing, and there's a lot of mutual respect between them. Also considering the "2" 9c routes listed in this video I doubt a downgrade.
C
This guy just got a 10a in our hearts. Congrats for just been an amazing human being.
Hi, Adam. After watching this video, I can say you are not only an outstanding climber, but you also have a lot of common sense and humility. Congrats for all your career and thank you very much for pushing the limits of our beloved sport.
You and your team are becoming really good at these video's, Adam, congrats! And of course big grats to Alex for Bibliography too!
It's cool to see Adam being so understanding of other viewpoints and really presenting the topic as it is: subjective. He's a real inspiration, no doubt about it. He's passionate about the sport and he doesn't treat it like an exact science
As a new climber, it's really helpful to have his insight available for real!
This video really makes me like Adam even more and I appreciate his attitude towards subjective grading. Well done.
Love the fact that he thinks that having fun is the most important thing in climbing. Couldn't agree more. 👍😃
I cannot wait to see Alex Megos's footage!
Thanks to Adam and the team for continuing to make consistently fascinating videos.
most interesting informations i hear today! Thank you Adam, you are the best for outdoor hard routes
Such a great ambassador for this sport. Great video, Adam. So much respect.
This is your best video yet. Valuable perspective from a credible source.
este video hizo que mi piel se erizara, no por la información si no la energía que le conectas a la escalada y el tono realmente cautivador de tu amor hacia la escalada, me quedare con esta frase, "Nunca olvides que divertirse es el pensamiento mas importante al escalar" GRACIAS ADAM TE CONOZCO DESDE HACE DOS SEMANAS Y ME HE ESTADO FACINANDO POR ESTE DEPORTE DE ESCALADA. GRACIAS!!!
What a great video! keep up the great work adam! Love the "I'm sure I will never climb 10b" part as it makes me hyped you could send a 10a one day or at least give your best trying. Also love the Timing of the video and your congrats to Alex!
Adam eres fuente de inspiración para los escaladores.. Llénate de energías que tienes muchos proyectos por delante.
Vamos Titán!!!
Best video yet. Love the longer length and the topic is amazing👏
Probably one of the best episode so far. Really inspiring
He's so eloquent and interesting! Jeesh, and he seems like a genuinely nice dude on top of all that talent! Definitely one of my favorite climbers and I would pay to hear him speak at a lecture if he were so inclined.
9:15 PLEASE CLIP SOMETHING I'M SWEATING
Another great video! Thank you Adam & Team!
I also, as many commentators below, like the last minute of the video the most.
Had to fight my own grade-fever / -obsession already and in the end... fun is what's left :-)
much love to adam! amazing video as always.
Adam: talks about how embarrassing it is for your route to get downgraded Also Adam: notorious for downgrading routes
Also Also Adam: the best climber in the world, with the most experience, so is the best judge of routes that may be overgraded.
Really though? Alex megos has climbed more routes over 8a than anyone in the world. So to say Adam is the most qualified is overconfident.
Adam overgrades his FAs and undergrades others FAs so even something like ego is a large point to take into consideration.
I really think people like sharma, megos and schubert are better judges.
@@molomono9481 Ondra climbed routes >= 9a more than anyone in the world. In wikipedia there's even no such a chapter about Adam's 9a ascents, because it's over a 100. Alex has 6 (six) 9a's only (according to wikipedia, and I didn't find any information about Alex's ascents anywhere besides of wiki, including 8a.nu). What is the source of information that he has "climbed more routes over 8a than anyone"? Even if that is true, Ondra climbed much more routes over 9a than Megos, and than anyone else, which is more valuable in terms of expanding the grade scale.
I think he talked about downgrading because there is new beta on Silence and it may be downgraded if someone else can send it.
mrmoorash Alex has climbed 6 9a routes, but 11 more that were graded 9a+ or harder. Part of that is because he spent years just quickly doing many “moderate” climbs in the 5.13-5.14 range, which is probably what the other post was referring to as he has books of thousands of climbs in those grades. You’re definitely right though Adam has sent by far the most climbs at the highest level
Qué grandes palabras y consejos Adam!!!
I love these new educational kind of videos
I enjoy onsighting and that is a good example of grades as a tool. Pushing too hard was never my game that is why i toured around 7B and not more. Too much dedication needed after that.
If only athletes of all sports can be as candid, bravo. 1. Have fun 2. Strive 3. Accomplish
very nice, very well done, within high attention, good editing. thanks
Nice that you already mention Alex's 9c Bibliographie. @Adam: Will you try it as well?
Love you Adam. You’re inspiring
It is an interesting topic. Thank you Adam to cover it.
thank you for bringing us closer to your art.
Love the videos! Any chance you could do a video on resting mid-route? Different kinds of rests, how you know how long to stay vs. losing more energy using it? Is it even worth trying to do as a beginner, etc.?
I'd love to see this - also I think it would be nice to hear about how to "train" for rests. I know Adam did this specifically on Silence by training his calf muscles but I'd be interested in his thoughts on how to practice relaxing your muscles, regulating your breathing, finding good rest positions and readjusting your position in order to rest. I think this part tends to be cut out of almost all difficult ascent videos so it would be good to see exactly how long the top climbers actually spend resting vs the portrayal which seems to be 100% movement.
Great idea
Mani the Monkey made a quite good video on that matter some time ago - th-cam.com/video/z5qcx6rl3LY/w-d-xo.html
A good way to quickly see/feel the advantage of resting as a beginner if you can hang from a bar is to time yourself hanging from a bar with two hands as long as you can. Then, have a good rest, and try again, but this time occasionally take one hand off and give it a little shake. If you can't hang from a bar then use one or two footholds on front of you to take enough weight for you to hang and try the same thing. This exercise will make you think about when you are unnecessarily using two hands on a route - if one is enough to keep you on and in balance, the other one can be recovering
@@arlodillon1659 That's a fantastic idea, thank you!
Outstanding explanation!! You're getting really good at making educational videos!!👋🏻👋🏻👋🏻👋🏻
Tohle videjko se mi moc líbilo. Konečně mi někdo vysvětlil, jak to s tou klasifikací je. Děkuji.
A přesně, jak říkáš. Občas příjdem před skálu, dáme si 5tku na rozlezení a já se v ní hrozně trápím. Potom si dáme 7ku a tu přelezu jako nic. Lezení je úžasné. Jen mě mrzí, že jsem s ním začla až tak pozdě.
Don't have time to watch now. But dropped a like and will be back to watch after work!
Thanks Adam. Really interesting. It would seem that, in general, common sense prevails ✊🏼
This video really shows why Rock Climbing is subjective. So many things go into why a route is hard or easy. Really great
adam u are just a great guy. keep it up. love you
Great video as always
I like the story about the grades, you should do more episodes about history of climbing!!
Molto interessante Adam🔝🔝🤗🤗
This guy produces great video content and is a very skilled narrator.
amazing. i loved this video, it’s really informative
Amazing detailed information 💯
I like your approach to what grading means for climbing, that it is mostly a suggestion that helps others to estimate the route and measure climbing achievements. Some people get too heated about it.
Not what he said lol
Fantastic video👏👏👏
Pure gold.
Good explanation and pretty balanced video IMO.
Awesome vid! Thanks!
I have done FAs of over 1000 routes, sport and trad, up to 8b. Almost none of my 7s and 8s have ever been downgraded, but 5s and 6s are constantly questioned, despite the fact that I am maybe the most experienced in these ratings of anyone in my area (45 years climbing). The problem stems from lack of respect for easier climbs combined with local sandbagging in areas where the easier routes were established before people from other areas had input. 7s and 8s get traffic from people who travel a lot, easier grades fall into the "Sandbagging Black Hole" more easily. The main thing is that I grade my own routes as consistently as possible across all the grades, based on my own experience and input from a variety of experienced climbers, even if many people don't respect the easier grades.
Big love!!!
Thank,s so much!!! I hope to see you sometime
Very helpful video, ur the man dude.
Yeahhhh finally!!
omg adam is such a gradehunter! :D
First 9b is Akira climbed by Fred Rouhling in 1995(!). The second 9b is Chilam Balam by Bernabè Fernandez in 2003. The first repeat of the latter was made by Ondra in 2011 -- his comment on the grade: "I think it might be a normal 9b, maybe even a low-end 9b, but definitely not 9a+". Strangely, he totally ignored that...
Great video
cant wait for alex's send footage
Cool!
PREACH~!
Today is a fine day for learning! There was so much info on this video. I’m gonna have to watch it a few times!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us Adam. I don’t climb but I find what you can do and how you think these things up to be fascinating. Keep it up dude!!🤘
Muito sucesso para você
I'm putting up quite a few routes in my home area these days, and seldom rate anything. I'm 70 years old, 5'1" tall (155cm,) legally blind and have extensive damage to both shoulders. When other climbers ask, "How hard is that route," I usually respond with, "It's hard (easy/moderate) for me," and let them know if there are points with "spicy" protection where they should feel solid before continuing. Even when younger and stronger, there have been some YDS 5.7 (French 5a) routes which were FAR more difficult, or even impossible, at my height, so I've always considered grades to be pretty subjective. 🙏
Super nice video! Good insights Adam. At the same time its a little bit funny when you on the one side say that the most embarrasing thing that could happen is when somebody downgrades a route. On the other side you say that one should not take grades to seriously and just have fun climbing. Which is it? 😉
Adam Andra for president of the United States 2020!
Back in the 70s and 80s many routes were given a lower grade on purpose because the climbers feared getting their routes downgraded. I hope I will still be alive when someone gets into the tens, even though I will probably never send a 7a.
I would love to just sit and talk with these guys
3:58 dude, the size of your fingers is gnarly!
He is like the Messias of climbing.
Interessante
@Adam, you should try Bibliographie after you finish setting your new route
I like that you consider Open Air from1996 as first 9a+ and not Biographie much later
Alex Huber, the forgotten beast
And also Qui, from 1996 as well. Haven't googled which was established first tbh, but both are first repetitions (in the case of Open Air, and only) by him. Qui was also confirmed as a 9a+ by the second repetitor.
Adam is the best climber!
And here I am struggling on 7a (lead)😂
it’s ok just practice and you’ll get better in time
The grade conversion table: starts at 8a
Me: *high pitch screaming*
I haven't even climbed 7a
@@beanman3982 thank you:) I'm okay with being on 7a level, I enjoy climbing as it is and I just have fun with it
I'm truly amazed by Adam tho
@@simonhoracek8490 in the US it's a bit different ranking system (we use numbers) and I actually had to convert it and I was thinking it might be at least 8A...nooooooope...7A😂
Awesome video as always! So, I remember Adam used to have that he won't ever be able to climb 10a. It is 10b now...Hmmm
He's secretly preparing to blow our minds with the first 10a !
Wise!
0:57 the Black Diamond Rock :)
Great video but has to be noted that this grading logic applies to sport climbing, since for trad climbing I like the r or x after the grade (which indicates the risk in case of falling) or simply the British grades, which states both the general difficulty (exposure + technical) + the hardest move isolated. I practice more than anything sport climbing, so the video is excellent and very didactic. Other thing to add is that NO ONE has climbed La Rambla like Ramonet did it. It might be contrived or an eliminate (wouldn't be the first one, like Rhapsody or Sharma's Es Pontas), and Ondra himself "only" used the last jug as a foothold, but I hope one day someone will repeat it as Ramonet did it. No wonder why he graded Reina Mora 8c... which now is a standard 9a...
On a Sport route I can understand that the mental difficulty should not be a factor, or at least that major of a factor, but trad in my eyes is a complete different Story, as having a massive runout then doing the crux with the possibility of a ground fall defenately ads another Dimension to the climb.
It for sure adds a different dimension to the climb, but that doesn't mean it changes the grade. When people free solo it adds a new dimension, but free soloists don't suggest a new grade after.
People in the climbing community generally recognize the difference between a 5.12 sport and a 5.12 trad, but the in the end they're both 5.12
The BMC Trad grading system takes this into account. The adjectival grade is the first part of the grade, and attempts to give a sense of the overall difficulty of a climb. This will be influenced by many aspects, including seriousness, sustaindness, technical difficulty, exposure, strenuousness, rock quality, and any other less tangible aspects which lend difficulty to a pitch. It is an open ended system, and currently runs from Easy, which is barely climbing, to E11, which has been barely climbed. Along the way, and in ascending order, are Moderate (M), Difficult (D), Hard Diff (HD), Very Difficult (VD), Hard Very Difficult (HVD), Severe (S), Hard Severe (HS), Very Severe (VS), Hard Very Severe (HVS) and Extremely Severe, the last category being split into E1, E2, E3 etc.
The second part of the grade, the technical grade, is there to give an indication of the hardest move to be found on the route, irrespective of how many of them there might be, how strenuous it is, or how frightened you are when you do it.
They come onto the scale somewhere around 4a and currently run thus; 4a, 4b, 4c, 5a, 5b, 5c, 6a, 6b, 6c, 7a, 7b.
@@sdoowramaj I know, grew up in England, what I was on about is that ondra said that these things should not be considered when grading a route, which the trad grades obviously do, which in the case of trad climbing they should, wheras the yanks use the same grading for trad and Sport routes, and there is a Major difference doing a 5.12d sports route and a 5.12d trad. And how do you genuinly convert the french or UIAA grades when you do them trad, my projekt at the moment is a 10-/10, so about an 8a+ in ettringen Germany, but without any exposure no long runouts and excellent placements.
Adam make a video trying the new 9c!!!!
Please do a video with magnus !!!
I was hoping he would reference Pete Whittaker, finding new beta for the crack moves on Silence.
Love the video Adam, thanks for your generosity. I always wonder about grades. I saw your climb of that 8a (?) offwidth, which seemed to really take everything you had for the 2 tries (?)... i also loved your onsight of Mind Control (8c+?) and many others... how can something that was pushing you to the extreme limit be rated so much lower than something you did seemingly without much problem?
I see climbers here (Montreal Canada) send 8a regularly and struggle like crazy on a super thin 6c slab... what gives?
I’m assuming he isn’t as good climbing offwidths as sport routes. I guess that’s where the subjective part comes in because people are stronger in certain types of climbing than others and vice versa.
Can you make a video about flash and onsight please
Hello Adam I have been climbing for a year now and I climb a lot and want to do even more, but unfortunately my hands hurt and I wanted to ask how to train for climbing without climbing.
So happy the day i got recommended
I had no clue about rating
But it make sense
Keep it simple
Not double sow cow
Double flip doppler
Lingo of x sportz
Keep on CLIMBING
I recognise Paclaniza !
Prosím udělej nějaké video kde mluvíš česky, jinak super video
Will Adam try bibliography? Maybe the next 9c
Would ne very cool 👍
Maybe? I'm pretty sure it IS the next 9c, until someone downgrades it.
Pretty sure it's already the next 9c.
Imagine he climbed it and downgraded it. That would be a serious oooof
@@odhran8825 I highly highly doubt that would happen.
What are your opinions on when someone uses a new piece of gear (say a kneebar pad) not available to a first ascentionist? Does that merit a downgrade? Is it valid to use?
It’s easy, I can climb it?
5C
I can’t climb it?
9C+++
I would say the most important part is avoid death and injury so you can keep having fun!
Great video - I 100% agree with Adam's points. Question though - how do we handle routes with proposed grades that are yet to be confirmed by repeaters, such as Silence, Change, Bibliographie, Burden of Dreams, Akira, etc. It seems we have to take the first ascentionist's word for it until repeaters can confirm, but as we've seen with Akira that doesn't always happen. I really like the chart at 3:00 minutes which shows the progression of climbing grades over time. However, it leaves out Akira which is still claimed as 9b from Fred Rouhling in 1985. If we don't count that route, how can we count Silence and Bibliographie which also have seen no repeats? Is Fred Rouhling's ascent discredited for some reason?
Not entirely sure but I think this article does a great job to recount the story: www.climbing.com/people/fred-rouhling/
Perhaps the idea of someone climbing 9b a year before anyone had climbed a 9a+ and 13 years before anyone climbed an accepted 9b is grounds for immediate scepticism which he couldn't shake since.
With how strong and humble these guys are, I think it's a pretty safe bet, plus they're pretty much betting their entire reputation on it so I think they would think twice before over exaggerating a grade
really good point, thanks !
The best imo is to take their word for it. As even seen in competitions, climbing is more of a sport versus oneself rather than an opponent. Even someone like Alex M, who definitely fuels part of his determination by the accomplishment and feats of others, sending a particular route or grade is really a battle with his own ability. As Adam mentioned, grades are more about giving a vague idea of how difficult something is. There are SO many variables from fitness, genetics, technique, conditions, type of rock, style, vertical/slab/overhang, etc that can alter the difficulty immensely from one climber to the next. As I always recommend to fellow climbers, new and even some regulars, don't think about grades too much. Just go have fun and climb it!
seb bouin repeated it now and gave it 9a
This is so awesome thank you! I wonder what happens to Redpoint Grading when a hold breaks and makes it harder, so how much of an increase in grade does one hold breaking off make? Because a short climber won’t be able to skip it and tall climbers will need it in general, should that be a + for bouldering? What qualifies routes that are too choss/x rated to climb?
It totally depends on the climb. Some climbs have been known to become impossible after a crucial hold was broken or it might go from 7a to 9a....
Generally something like that may receive no change, if a tall climber were to skip that "short climber" move already, because the rating is based on the easiest beta. Many climbs are morpho and cannot be climbed if you are too short. Adam's 9c is a great example, where it is only possible by one modern human because of the knee-bar rests. If you are too short, you can't use them and it's literally impossible for any climber today. It's still rated a 9c and not a 10b+ because the knee is the easiest beta.
Sometimes an unskippable hold will break but not at the crux, and the new hold may not be much more difficult. If it does not become the new crux, the rating likely won't change unless it is argued to make the crux sequence much more difficult.
If a hold breaks at the crux or a new crux and makes it harder, the rating will be bumped up if the climb is still considered climbable. If the crux or crux sequence becomes easier, it will likely downgrade the route.
In my point of view, the beauty, the move, and also the difficulty of the routes should be the order of the day. Even the grades are usefull, they musn't be an obsession. Thanks a lot to have shared your opinion.
Adam is someone who basically spent his teenage years repeating almost all of the hard routes at the time, then started trying and creating new ones. It takes a lot of responsibility to propose a 9c but I know for sure that if he's the one proposing it is probably true. Grading is really complex and relative to pretty much everyone who tries a route and that s why I think Adam should be used like a "sample", pretty much like the original "kilogram" and taken all over the world to check if the gradings of the crags are right lol
Proč jste použili Czechia a ne Czech Republic? Jinak super epizoda!
All i need is one of the shoes of adam ondra 😍😍 size 9/9.5 hehe.